Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:50 AM - Re: Elevator linkage redesign (Rick Pearce)
2. 05:32 AM - Re: Grass landing strip question (Jeremy Casey)
3. 05:45 AM - clinkin n clankin (robert bean)
4. 06:07 AM - Lift Strut Fitting Mods (John Hauck)
5. 06:13 AM - Re: Grass landing strip question (John Hauck)
6. 06:18 AM - Re: Lift Strut Fitting Mods (Todd Fredricks)
7. 06:33 AM - Re: Grass landing strip question (Todd Fredricks)
8. 06:34 AM - Re: Lift Strut Fitting Mods (John Hauck)
9. 06:57 AM - Re: Lift Strut Fitting Mods (Todd Fredricks)
10. 07:03 AM - Re: Grass landing strip question (John Hauck)
11. 08:08 AM - Landing gear (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com)
12. 12:10 PM - Re: Landing gear (John Hauck)
13. 02:39 PM - q (russ kinne)
14. 03:09 PM - Re: q (John Williamson)
15. 03:24 PM - Re: q (Robert Laird)
16. 03:58 PM - Re: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads (John Hauck)
17. 03:59 PM - Re: q (ray anderson)
18. 04:07 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Following Roads (John Hauck)
19. 04:18 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (John Hauck)
20. 05:17 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (ray anderson)
21. 05:47 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (robert bean)
22. 05:52 PM - Cross Country Routes (Vince Nicely)
23. 06:40 PM - Re: Cross Country Routes (Jack & Louise Hart)
24. 07:34 PM - Re: q (Todd Fredricks)
25. 08:00 PM - Re: q & straying off topic) (Charlie England)
26. 08:26 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (bryan green)
27. 09:12 PM - Re: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads (Richard Pike)
28. 09:20 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (John Hauck)
29. 09:21 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (possums)
30. 09:35 PM - Re: q/Cross Country and Highways (John Hauck)
31. 11:16 PM - Re: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads (Kolbdriver)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator linkage redesign |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rick Pearce" <rap@isp.com>
Looks like Kolb sent me the push tube for the dual control instead of the
single. My kit is old enough it still has the alum H sections. I could use a
pictue of how the new style trim hooks up since my plans still show a cable
running all the way back to the elevator. If I under stood Travis right
yesterday the trim now hooks into the elevator horn.
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rick Pearce" <rap@isp.com>
>
> Has the elevator linkage been redesigned from the older Mark 3's? I
am working off of a old drawing book page 1&2 show rev 0 . I have a new
fusalage and parts and drawings are not matching.
> Rick Pearce
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Grass landing strip question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
Sounds almost identical to my strip...
http://www.kilocharlie.us/images/briarpatch_large.jpg
Flew a RANS S7 out of it regularly as well as a Challenger 2 ultralight
(with my 270 lb. brother on several cool mornings...) and a Kolb will
best both of those birds in the short takeoff department...so no
problem. Have had 2 different Kolbs land at my strip as well.
That being said, when you do your first flights, go to a longer strip.
Practice there till you are comfortable with the plane then bring it
home.
Jeremy Casey
-----Original Message-----
From: Tenn Metfan [mailto:tnmetfanbeckett@yahoo.com]
Subject: Kolb-List: Grass landing strip question
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Tenn Metfan <tnmetfanbeckett@yahoo.com>
Hello to all on the list,
I have read and appreciated all your advice, and banter for over 3
months now. This is my first "post".
I have a real question, but please bear with me while I "indulge" for a
few moments...
I have been smitten with flight since my earliest age. Model planes
abounded. First "real" flight, was hang gliding (go figure), hours on
the practice hill were worth that first solo (circa 1987)!! Then, a
Cessna 152 in 1988 (age 26). Got to solo it too, then found the
grassroots... Ultra lights. Bought a Sorrell Hyper light. Cute little
red bi-wing. Taxied it for hours, then, lift off for a quick "round the
patch" flight. Emergency landing prep in the 152 suddenly became handy.
On the first downwind leg, engine out (crappy 277 engine)... did all the
usual stuff, landed safe. Folks on the ground even thought it was
intentional! Not quite.
Well, I began my quest for a homebuilt aircraft in 1994. And my first
visits to Oshkosh and Lakeland found me adoring the Kolbs. But money was
tight, so I had to wait... and wait... and wait.
Well, here I am, almost 12 years later. 11 Oshkosh visits (never got
back to Sun'n'fun), and have considered every craft out there. But are
you surprised to hear, the one that stays at the top of the list, is the
Kolb? Despite the change of ownership over the years, they still seem to
maintain impeccable stature in the light plane community.
Now, (finally) to my question.
After all these years, I think, I can afford a plane. And Kolb, has won
the vote (want a Mark III X, but think a Fire Star II is best for
starters). I wanted to have a home-based flight line, hanger, and strip.
And after years of searching, finally (just) bought 20 acres that I hope
will house this dream. But though it appears to be adequate for a
home-based airstrip... I (in my quest for safety) feel I should ask for
the opinions of those that know best.
I will have a 1000' clear strip, with 400' on each end (to clear 50'
obstacles). Is this enough for practical operations? As I peer out, and
dream of flights of fancy, can never avoid the thought about safety.
Guess that first Ultra light flight taught me a lesson!
What are your opinions about grass strip lengths (adequate for a Kolb),
or any other opinions, are all welcome!
I plan to be at OSK again this year, in the campground area. Anyone else
going?
Thanks in advance for all your help!
Mike Schnabel
Manchester, Tennessee
---------------------------------
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Message 3
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| Subject: | clinkin n clankin |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
I found an easy method to eliminate the lift strut rattle.
-with apologies if someone has previously suggested the same thing.
A generous gob of clear silicone sealer squirted in the wide space
at the lower attachment then smoothed to shape with a wet finger.
I fold my wings once per year so pulling it off with a pair of
needlenose
pliers shouldn't be much trouble.
Much nicer taxiing now.
I've grown fond of those much-maligned aluminum legs, I get a pretty
good ride on my undulating runway. I have yet to land on real
pavement but so far a lot easier to plop down than a T-craft with fresh
bungees.
-BB
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Lift Strut Fitting Mods |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| I found an easy method to eliminate the lift strut rattle.
Bob B/Gang:
Had problems with my Ultrastar and Firestar. The holes in the lift
strut fittings would elongate in a short period of flying. We solved
the problem on the Firestar when we went from round aluminum lift
struts to 4130 strealined struts. Brother Jim drilled out the old
holes to accept bushings cut to fit the slots, top and bottom of the
lift strut. An AN bolt and nyloc nut with a couple washers snug up
the fittings to airframe and wing.
Did the same thing for the MKIII. No slop in lift strut fittings in
well over 2,000 flight hours.
I remember someone on the Kolb List making a comment to the effect
that since we had made the lift strut connections rigid, we had now
weakened the system. Hope not. I need those lift struts.
john h
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Grass landing strip question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| http://www.kilocharlie.us/images/briarpatch_large.jpg
Hi All:
Jeremy has a nice airstrip, right in his front yard. Landed there
many times. Wish I had the same setup.
Gantt International Airport has been in existence since 1984. Started
out as unimproved 650 ft cow pasture. Only work done to it in the
beginning was bush hog the grass and weeds. Eventually got around to
leveling and stretching to 750 ft, if you use every possible inch of
it. Approaches and departures are complicated with tall trees to the
north and powerline and bushes on the south. I taught myself to fly
fixed wing off this strip. Enough room to fly passengers in and out
of it. Initially, it is intimidating, but gets to feeling normal
after a landing or two. Best to land north and takeoff south, winds
permitting.
john h
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut Fitting Mods |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
That seems worrisome; So you either get flexibility in the system and
elongation of the holes or you tighten it up and weaken the system?
Surely there is a better engineering solution than that?
Todd
On 7/7/05 9:07 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> | -BB
>
> Bob B/Gang:
>
> Had problems with my Ultrastar and Firestar. The holes in the lift
> strut fittings would elongate in a short period of flying. We solved
> the problem on the Firestar when we went from round aluminum lift
> struts to 4130 strealined struts. Brother Jim drilled out the old
> holes to accept bushings cut to fit the slots, top and bottom of the
> lift strut. An AN bolt and nyloc nut with a couple washers snug up
> the fittings to airframe and wing.
>
> Did the same thing for the MKIII. No slop in lift strut fittings in
> well over 2,000 flight hours.
>
> I remember someone on the Kolb List making a comment to the effect
> that since we had made the lift strut connections rigid, we had now
> weakened the system. Hope not. I need those lift struts.
>
> john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Grass landing strip question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
Got a picture of it John? Mine is 1000 feet with 70 foot trees on either
end.
Todd
Reason for selling the 172 as a matter of fact. No matter how much silk I
pour into it the sow's ear smell will always persist. ;)
I need a Maule but they are wayyyyy too expensive and the Kolbs are
prettier.
One last thing, which routing did you take north and south when you
circumnavigated? I am trying to flight plan a trip out to Sacramento and I
wanted to minimize altitudes across the mountains. Direct takes me up to
MEAs of 18000' and the old 172 aint gonna git it.
On 7/7/05 9:13 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> | Sounds almost identical to my strip...
> | Jeremy Casey
>
> Hi All:
>
> Jeremy has a nice airstrip, right in his front yard. Landed there
> many times. Wish I had the same setup.
>
> Gantt International Airport has been in existence since 1984. Started
> out as unimproved 650 ft cow pasture. Only work done to it in the
> beginning was bush hog the grass and weeds. Eventually got around to
> leveling and stretching to 750 ft, if you use every possible inch of
> it. Approaches and departures are complicated with tall trees to the
> north and powerline and bushes on the south. I taught myself to fly
> fixed wing off this strip. Enough room to fly passengers in and out
> of it. Initially, it is intimidating, but gets to feeling normal
> after a landing or two. Best to land north and takeoff south, winds
> permitting.
>
> john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut Fitting Mods |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
and
| elongation of the holes or you tighten it up and weaken the system?
|
| Surely there is a better engineering solution than that?
|
| Todd
Todd/All:
I believe our system of attachment works well. With nearly 2,300
flight hours on the bushed lift strut fittings there is no slop. They
are still as snug as they were when we made them.
I don't believe we weakened the system by rigidly attaching the lift
struts. However, someone else did.
I think the fact that our system has provided excellent service over a
long period of flight is proof enough for me that we have not weakened
the system. The individual that made the comment that we had weakened
the system never provided any substantiating data other than his
comment that we had gone the wrong way.
My lift struts are absolutely not worrisome to me.
john h
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut Fitting Mods |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
Did Kolb ever adopt the design? I mean the proof is in the pudding. If Miss
P'Fer can handle the trips she has in the turbulence and other conditions, I
am a believer.
On 7/7/05 9:35 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> | That seems worrisome; So you either get flexibility in the system
> and
>
>
> Todd/All:
>
> I believe our system of attachment works well. With nearly 2,300
> flight hours on the bushed lift strut fittings there is no slop. They
> are still as snug as they were when we made them.
>
> I don't believe we weakened the system by rigidly attaching the lift
> struts. However, someone else did.
>
> I think the fact that our system has provided excellent service over a
> long period of flight is proof enough for me that we have not weakened
> the system. The individual that made the comment that we had weakened
> the system never provided any substantiating data other than his
> comment that we had gone the wrong way.
>
> My lift struts are absolutely not worrisome to me.
>
> john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Grass landing strip question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
either
| end.
|
| Todd
Todd/All:
Yes, I have a photo of my airstrip, but don't have time to post it
now.
I would not be comfortable flying out of a 1,000 ft strip with 70 ft
trees on each end. My strip has trees on the north end, but far
enough from the threshold to allow me to make a 90 degree turn before
I reach them.
I generally fly where I want to. John W and I have crossed the
Rockies many times. Max altitude required to get across the Sierra
Nevadas was 14,500 ft. If you don't want to go over, pick the nearest
pass.
Gary Haley flew the pass from Reno west along I-80 a month ago. I
flew south along US-395.
john h
Message 11
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|
10:06:45 AM,
Serialize complete at 07/07/2005 10:06:45 AM,
Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at
07/07/2005
10:07:17 AM,
Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at 07/07/2005
10:07:21 AM,
Serialize complete at 07/07/2005 10:07:21 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
Captain John H./others:
I previously reported hard landing my Firestar and bending up my leg
sockets. I am nearing completion of that project and I am thinking of
switching to steel legs. I have two questions ya'll.
1. How did you transition the steel legs to the Kolb axle assembly?
2. Removing the old aluminium legs from the steel socket can be a real
pain in the glutious maximus. Putting a steel leg into a steel socket
could be worst. Are you plating or painting the legs after heat treating
for easy removal?
Dwight Kottke
The Flying (repairing) Farmer
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
assembly?
| 2. Are you plating or painting the legs after heat treating
| for easy removal?
|
| Dwight Kottke
Hi Dwight/All:
Must have me mixed up with someone else. I am just plain ole John H.
The rank part was dropped 25.5 years ago when I retired and put on
civvies. ;-)
To answer your questions:
1-Fabricated gear leg/axle sockets to fit the new gear legs.
2-4130 rust by quickly glancing at it. I prep with phosphoric acid
etch, diluted to what ever is on the jug. Prime with epoxy primer,
then shoot the finish coat. May have to hold off on finish paint on
that part of the leg that is inserted into the socket. No problem on
removing gear legs later on down the road.
I cut my legs for the original Firestar to 35.5", shoving them all the
way into the socket until they hit bottom (at the intersection of the
two sockets). I believe the factory is still cutting them to fit
halfway into the socket which automatically turns them into a shear on
extremely hard landings or crashes.
Make the gear leg/axle sockets stout. That is what failed on my MKIII
5 years ago at Muncho Lake, BC, but only after many, many hard, heavy,
club fisted landings.
Need more info, just holler.
john h
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
`For those Kolbers planning XC trips across mountain areas -- try
using a road map for route planning!
The 4-lane builders will have picked the lowest suitable pass and
that's what you want too. Also, you'll have a hundred-mile runway
beneath you 'just in case'. Works for me.
Russ Kinne
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
Russ and all,
If you follow the roads, you might as well just drive.
Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.
John W.
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
> Russ and all,
>
> If you follow the roads, you might as well just drive.
> Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.
Ah! Spoken by someone who has a 912ULS pushing them around the air column! <g>
Methinks that Russ was referring to novice-XC-over-mountains fliers, and maybe
especially those with less reliable powerplants.
But, it's an interesting question that I'd love to hear from everyone about: do
you fly IFR (I-Follow-Roads) when doing XC's, or do you just tear off into the
unknown, over piney forest, craggy mountains, grizzly-den'd wilderness, endless
desert, vast inland seas, alligator-infested swamp, or do you wimp-out/be
sensible (take your pick) and follow more forgiving terrain that would, in your
judgement, provide a more hospitable landing-out and/or proximity to recovery
resources?
-- Robert
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
column! <g>
Robert L/Gang:
The 912UL and 912ULS added a tremendous amount of reliability to our
sport. Couple those engines with a good ole Kolb airplane and one is
almost unlimited where they can fly safely.
Two stroke days, one would have a hard time convincing me to fly any
where I could not make a good forced landing area. Throughout all the
engine failures with the two strokes, I was always where I needed to
be to make a good forced landing, except a couple times. Then.......I
was able to get a restart shortly before crash time. BTW only had one
two stroke forced landing that was caused by catastrophic engine
failure. The rest were fouled plugs, fuel filters, spark plug wire
disconnecting in flight from an inverted Cuyuna, aircleaner going
through a wooden prop, etc.
The aircraft commander/pilot in command is the one that makes the
ultimate decision on where the airplane flies. When I make a decision
to fly over terrain that is not suitable for a successful forced
landing or water, I am agreeing to accept the results should the motor
decide to stop. As a back up I have a BRS ballistic parachute that
might be a good idea is it looks like I am going to have to try and
land in tall trees, rocky terrain, glaciers with big holes in them,
etc.
For the most part, we fly cross country, if we can not go through it
or over it, then I will follow what ever is necessary to make a good
flight and keep the aircraft commander happy. ;-)
Take care,
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
Russ,
Famous LAST words of scores of late departed dumb pilots.
John Williamson <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson"
Russ and all,
If you follow the roads, you might as well just drive.
Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.
John W.
---------------------------------
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Following Roads |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| that's what you want too. | Russ Kinne
Russ K/Gang:
Well, almost the lowest suitable pass.
Learned on my first flight to Alaska, 1994, from local bush pilots,
when the ceiling comes down:
1-Follow the road. If that does not work..........
2-Follow the rail road. If that does not work...........
3-Follow the river.............This is the lowest suitable terrain,
followed by the rail roads, then the highway passes.
I have done all of the above during my short period of flying in
Canada and Alaska. Watch out for cables strung across the rivers and
creeks though. Folks in the Far North are famous for stringing them
up for trolleys to get across the river. Most are not on the
Sectionals. Even if they were, you will be so busy flying and
maintaining terrain clearance you will not have time to look at a
Sectional.
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
|
| Russ,
| Famous LAST words of scores of late departed dumb pilots.
Ray A/Gang:
Please qualify the statement you made, above, about "dumb pilots"?
From down here in Alabama looks like you are putting every pilot that
flies over inhospitable terrain in the "dumb pilot" category? Is my
assumption correct?
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
PS: I took the liberty to change the subject line a little. At first
I was not going to have this one put in the archives, but after a
second thought, it probably has a place in there for future reference
for those contemplating committing cross country flight in their Kolb.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
To all,
I have flown as much as anybody in "straight line" cross country since
1935, but in aircraft capable of crossing inhospitable terrain safely ,ie, proven
engines with power to handle the situation. Most likely a certified aircraft
engine in good condition. My reference to late departed dumb pilots were
those and those now living who are not smart enough (dumb) to educate themselves
in what is required to do "straight" line flying safely. There are hundreds
and hundreds of new, low time, unprepared pilots with unreliable two cycle engines
and marginal aircraft out there who are not ready for such, and when one
gets into trouble, we all suffer.
< Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.>
In my humble opinion, a statement like that, even in jest, might encourage a beginner
to want to show he's cool and macho and strike out across deadly terrain
before he's ready in experience and equipment. There's nothing wimpy in using
common sense where called for. Nothing cool and macho in tempting fate either
under some circumstances. What's that old statement, something like this.
'There's lot's of bold pilots but not many old bold pilots'.
In the case of my statement, it's a case of where the shoe fits.
John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
| --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson
|
| Russ,
| Famous LAST words of scores of late departed dumb pilots.
Ray A/Gang:
Please qualify the statement you made, above, about "dumb pilots"?
From down here in Alabama looks like you are putting every pilot that
flies over inhospitable terrain in the "dumb pilot" category? Is my
assumption correct?
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
PS: I took the liberty to change the subject line a little. At first
I was not going to have this one put in the archives, but after a
second thought, it probably has a place in there for future reference
for those contemplating committing cross country flight in their Kolb.
---------------------------------
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
I tend to ascribe to Ray's views. The worser it gets below the higher
I fly.
If I can't swim to shore (500' max) I don't go over it.
Even with a genyoowine certified airplane and engine I won't fly single
engine at night. Those lights in the nose or wing only light up what's
ahead, not what's below. If it CAN quit, it WILL quit.
But then again sitting at home on the couch won't cut it either.
-BB do not archive
On 7, Jul 2005, at 8:17 PM, ray anderson wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>
> To all,
> I have flown as much as anybody in "straight line" cross
> country since 1935, but in aircraft capable of crossing inhospitable
> terrain safely ,ie, proven engines with power to handle the situation.
> Most likely a certified aircraft engine in good condition. My
> reference to late departed dumb pilots were those and those now living
> who are not smart enough (dumb) to educate themselves in what is
> required to do "straight" line flying safely. There are hundreds and
> hundreds of new, low time, unprepared pilots with unreliable two cycle
> engines and marginal aircraft out there who are not ready for such,
> and when one gets into trouble, we all suffer.
> < Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.>
> In my humble opinion, a statement like that, even in jest, might
> encourage a beginner to want to show he's cool and macho and strike
> out across deadly terrain before he's ready in experience and
> equipment. There's nothing wimpy in using common sense where called
> for. Nothing cool and macho in tempting fate either under some
> circumstances. What's that old statement, something like this.
> 'There's lot's of bold pilots but not many old bold pilots'.
> In the case of my statement, it's a case of where the shoe fits.
>
>
> John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
>
>
>
> Ray A/Gang:
>
> Please qualify the statement you made, above, about "dumb pilots"?
>
> From down here in Alabama looks like you are putting every pilot that
> flies over inhospitable terrain in the "dumb pilot" category? Is my
> assumption correct?
>
> john h
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
> PS: I took the liberty to change the subject line a little. At first
> I was not going to have this one put in the archives, but after a
> second thought, it probably has a place in there for future reference
> for those contemplating committing cross country flight in their Kolb.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Cross Country Routes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: " Vince Nicely" <vincenic@xtn.net>
Robert and all,
I changed the title:
> But, it's an interesting question that I'd love to hear from everyone
about: do you fly IFR (I-Follow-Roads) when doing XC's, or do you just tear
off into the unknown, over piney forest, craggy mountains, grizzly-den'd
wilderness, endless desert, vast inland seas, alligator-infested swamp, or
do you wimp-out/be sensible (take your pick) and follow more forgiving
terrain that would, in your judgement, provide a more hospitable landing-out
and/or proximity to recovery resources?
>
I am usually flying in the E. Tennessee, SW Virginia, W. Kentucky, W. Va.
and W North Carolina area when I cross country. The mountains are forested
and can have long stretches with few landing areas. I have helped search
for downed planes, and they can be extremely hard to find, especially when
the leaves are on the trees. I often choose the IFR cross country routes
for the reasons you state, and sometimes choose to fly with sufficient
altitude to give me a long glide, if needed.
Vince Nicely
Firestar II
Do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Cross Country Routes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 08:49 PM 7/7/05 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: " Vince Nicely" <vincenic@xtn.net>
>
>Robert and all,
>
>I changed the title:
>
A word from the "five gallon" club. If you are going to go some where,
often times you have to fly over rough country, and it is imperative to fly
the shortest distance to stretch the fuel. By cruising at 3,000 feet agl,
the FireFly will glide about three miles with the engine off.
From ferrying the FireFly, I found the biggest problem is running into
unexpected wind conditions, from which you could run out of fuel before
reaching your expected destination. The safety net is the gps and a timer
on the stick. I start the timer at lift off and I watch the gps reading for
expected flight time to arrive at the next gas stop. If the stick timer and
expected flight time added together exceed my fuel capacity burn time, I
have to divert. I punch up the nearest way points starting with the ones
closest to my destination. If the sum total of stick timer and expected
flight time fall with in limits, I continue on. If not I bump to the next
less desirable destination and try again. This works well in the midwest
because just about every county has an airport so that the next nearest
airport is about thirty miles away.
I learned this process while trying to fly from Perryville to Painton,
Missouri to my EAA Chapter 453 meetings. Two or three times, I had to turn
around because I did not have enough fuel to fly 54 miles.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 24
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
If I might chime in on this thread; one of the reasons why I don't own a
Rockwell Commander or something 'faster' and I chose a 172 but want to sell
it and buy a Kolb is because I realized that after flying Caravans and Beech
1900s that I will never own anything which can compete with what I can buy a
$250.00 ticket to fly on if what I want is fast.
So if that is the case and I still want to engage in my passion of flying
across the land, then I bettered go the route of the 'safest' airplane I can
find. Since spec made airplanes don't routinely shed parts and engine
failures and fuel exhaustion are the biggest worries, I determined that the
shortest I could land safely the better. Helios are way out of my price
range and they lack the visibility I want. Can't afford maintenance on an
OH-6 and I prefer airplanes anyway. So in the end I want something that if
the need arises can land in a football field. I can consistently get the 172
down and stopped in 3-400 feet of runway.
As long as you are not pushing the single engine night issue, a 3-400 foot
stopping distance affords you a lot of options. So that said, and aside from
ideas of crossing the Everglades single engine (I would opt out on that one)
I think the best planes for tearing off into the unknown or wilderness are
small single high lift airplanes that are carrying a good pack for
contingencies. I don't fear deserts or grizzly's as long as I have thought
through the possibilities before hand and as has been said before, Fly a Cub
or Kolb or T-craft along the interstates and minimize your time over the
crags and you really are picking the widest margin for the greatest utility
and fun.
For the Everglades, I think I would pick and AirCam, but at $80K that's a
bit beyond me.
Todd
On 7/7/05 6:20 PM, "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>
>
>> Russ and all,
>>
>> If you follow the roads, you might as well just drive.
>> Airplanes were made to go where the roads don't.
>
> Ah! Spoken by someone who has a 912ULS pushing them around the air column!
> <g>
>
> Methinks that Russ was referring to novice-XC-over-mountains fliers, and maybe
> especially those with less reliable powerplants.
>
> But, it's an interesting question that I'd love to hear from everyone about:
> do you fly IFR (I-Follow-Roads) when doing XC's, or do you just tear off into
> the unknown, over piney forest, craggy mountains, grizzly-den'd wilderness,
> endless desert, vast inland seas, alligator-infested swamp, or do you
> wimp-out/be sensible (take your pick) and follow more forgiving terrain that
> would, in your judgement, provide a more hospitable landing-out and/or
> proximity to recovery resources?
>
> -- Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: q & straying off topic) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Todd Fredricks wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>
>If I might chime in on this thread; one of the reasons why I don't own a
>Rockwell Commander or something 'faster' and I chose a 172 but want to sell
>it and buy a Kolb is because I realized that after flying Caravans and Beech
>1900s that I will never own anything which can compete with what I can buy a
>$250.00 ticket to fly on if what I want is fast.
>
>So if that is the case and I still want to engage in my passion of flying
>across the land, then I bettered go the route of the 'safest' airplane I can
>find. Since spec made airplanes don't routinely shed parts and engine
>failures and fuel exhaustion are the biggest worries, I determined that the
>shortest I could land safely the better. Helios are way out of my price
>range and they lack the visibility I want. Can't afford maintenance on an
>OH-6 and I prefer airplanes anyway. So in the end I want something that if
>the need arises can land in a football field. I can consistently get the 172
>down and stopped in 3-400 feet of runway.
>
>As long as you are not pushing the single engine night issue, a 3-400 foot
>stopping distance affords you a lot of options. So that said, and aside from
>ideas of crossing the Everglades single engine (I would opt out on that one)
>I think the best planes for tearing off into the unknown or wilderness are
>small single high lift airplanes that are carrying a good pack for
>contingencies. I don't fear deserts or grizzly's as long as I have thought
>through the possibilities before hand and as has been said before, Fly a Cub
>or Kolb or T-craft along the interstates and minimize your time over the
>crags and you really are picking the widest margin for the greatest utility
>and fun.
>
>For the Everglades, I think I would pick and AirCam, but at $80K that's a
>bit beyond me.
>
>Todd
>
A little good natured disagreement (only with your 1st paragraph):
One of the reasons I bought something 'faster' was to easily beat the
airlines. Pick any pair of non-hub cities less than 1000 miles apart &
I'll bet I can beat the airlines, actual origin to actual destination,
(not loading ramps) about 80-90% of the time & I don't have to put up
with some minimum wage felon getting paid a federal executive's salary
telling me to bend over so he can inspect my orifices. Living in a
non-hub city means $250 tickets are rare as hen's teeth, as well.
To top it off, I've only seen one airliner get upside down & I get to do
it just about any time the mood strikes during a trip. :-)
BTW, the Aircam truly deserves an 'awesome ride' label. I had the
intense pleasure of flying around about 20' above the MS River for about
40 minutes a few years ago & never had to worry about getting wet. 2
rotax 912S's on an 'ultralite'! Single engine? No problem. Helicopter
performance? Pretty close. What a blast!
Charlie
Flying RV-4, wishing for a Kolb for after-supper flying
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the
intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well
preserved body, but rather, to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting ...
WOW! What a ride! Thank you Lord!!!
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Do not archive
ray anderson wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>
>To all,
>
>In my humble opinion, a statement like that, even in jest, might encourage a beginner
to want to show he's cool and macho and strike out across deadly terrain
before he's ready in experience and equipment. There's nothing wimpy in using
common sense where called for. Nothing cool and macho in tempting fate either
under some circumstances. What's that old statement, something like this.
'There's lot's of bold pilots but not many old bold pilots'.
>In the case of my statement, it's a case of where the shoe fits.
>
>
>John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
>
>
>| --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson
>|
>| Russ,
>| Famous LAST words of scores of late departed dumb pilots.
>
>Ray A/Gang:
>
>Please qualify the statement you made, above, about "dumb pilots"?
>
>>From down here in Alabama looks like you are putting every pilot that
>flies over inhospitable terrain in the "dumb pilot" category? Is my
>assumption correct?
>
>john h
>hauck's holler, alabama
>
>PS: I took the liberty to change the subject line a little. At first
>I was not going to have this one put in the archives, but after a
>second thought, it probably has a place in there for future reference
>for those contemplating committing cross country flight in their Kolb.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
You bring up a good point, in your category of "all the rest," it includes
all the sort of things we all did wrong back when we were first getting
started. (Guess how I know this?) I wonder if a lot of so-called "two
stroke problems" are the result of the way most of us tend to do things
when we are new at the game?
Something I have often noticed as the chapter technical counselor is that
the 912 engine tends to get installed in - for lack of a better phrase -
traditional aircraft fashion. Which means in a very neat, well thought out
and reliable fashion. Likewise, the people who install them tend to know
what they are doing, and use pretty much standard, traditional aircraft
practice in how they do things. Which means taking great pains to makes
sure it won't break, fall off, or be a "Mickey Mouse rig."
On the other hand, I suppose all of us have seen two stroke engines on
aircraft that look like they came off a five year old dirt bike, complete
with frayed wires, loose throttle cables, etc. Or else a brand new
installation where the builder could obviously have benefited from not
trying to reinvent the wheel, but just asked some old timers for advice,
and come up with a better installation. Occasionally that doesn't help, I
have seen beautiful two stroke installations where the stupid engine just
blew up (Right, Steve?)
Obviously the 912 is way ahead of any of it's competition, but I wonder how
many two stroke engines fail, when that failure could be avoided by better
installation techniques? Food for thought... especially when you are flying
home over the best available forced landing areas...
do not archive
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 05:58 PM 7/7/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>Robert L/Gang:
>
>The 912UL and 912ULS added a tremendous amount of reliability to our
>sport. Couple those engines with a good ole Kolb airplane and one is
>almost unlimited where they can fly safely.
>
>Two stroke days, one would have a hard time convincing me to fly any
>where I could not make a good forced landing area. Throughout all the
>engine failures with the two strokes, I was always where I needed to
>be to make a good forced landing, except a couple times. Then.......I
>was able to get a restart shortly before crash time. BTW only had one
>two stroke forced landing that was caused by catastrophic engine
>failure. The rest were fouled plugs, fuel filters, spark plug wire
>disconnecting in flight from an inverted Cuyuna, aircleaner going
>through a wooden prop, etc.
><snip>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
My reference to late departed dumb pilots were those and those now
living who are not smart enough (dumb) to educate themselves in what
is required to do "straight" line flying safely.
Hi Ray A/Gang:
Guess I know what category I fall into. ;-)
I love to get in my little airplane and go exploring. Some of the
best was experienced during the 15 day flight in May. I flew along
side a two stroke powered Firefly over terrain that made my knees weak
flying in a very reliable 4 stroke. Was a truly exciting two hour
flight over the Canyonlands National Park, Utah.
There is a certain amount of risk in most everything we do. I am
somewhat of an adrenalin junky. Always have been as long as I can
remember. That is why I have hobbies like flying, riding dirt bikes,
mountain biking, big old heavy powerful antique tractors. All that
machinery makes my heart race and fills me with excitement. I can see
my demise from a broken neck as the result of a fall while getting up
in the dark and trying to find a place to take a leak while on a very
long cross country flight in my little MKIII. hehehe
BTW: The saying you were trying to remember goes:
There are old pilots and bold pilots,
But no old, bold pilots.
Correct me if I am wrong, but that is the way I remember hearing it.
I don't think what John W or I say on this List will influence anyone,
one way or the other to head out over the Pocanos or the Brooks Range
in a two stroke powered Firestar unprepared. Maybe we can plant a
seed that will sprout and they, the young, inexperienced pilots, will
be able to adequately prepare for and execute some truly exciting
cross country flights, not necessarily in a straight line either.
Straight lines can be very boring.
Take care,
john h
PS: However, I have flown the Pocanos twice in my 447 two stroke
powered original Firestar, 1988 and 1989. Also the Blue Ridge,
Appalacians, the mountains in North Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, NE
Texas, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and a few others I can not
remember right now. Did a lot of those same mountains in a two stroke
powered MKIII that has been 4 stroke powered since 1994. Could not
have done it if I had not pushed the throttle forward and pointed the
nose the direction I wanted to go. Never had any idea I could fly all
the way to New York State in 1988, until I did it. If I had not taken
a chance, I would still be sitting here at hauck's holler wishing I
had. Got an old friend told me about 5 years ago that a lot of men
die never realizing their dreams. My old friend convinced me to make
a second attempt to fly to Point Barrow, Alaska in a span of one year.
Sure am glad I did. Thanks Grey Baron.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 11:26 PM 7/7/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
>
>Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the
>intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well
>preserved body, but rather, to skid in broadside,
>thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting ...
>WOW! What a ride! Thank you Lord!!!
>
>Bryan Green Elgin SC
I agree ...some times I fly 10 feet above the Etowah river (in my
case) for five miles, knowing that if
my engine stops I'm going in the water - again.....but, with the
knowledge that after 642 hours on
my 503 - the odds are slim that - "that 10 minutes" will be the time
that the engine decides to seize.
And WOW what a ride/adrenaline rush it is! And if it does - I've
been there before and it didn't kill me
last time. Besides, it makes great videos.
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Submarine.jpg
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country and Highways |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| been there before and it didn't kill me
| last time. Besides, it makes great videos.
Stan:
I think you could have made it if you had just pushed the glide a
little bit further...........
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
PS: Go for the island. I made Grand Island, NY, June 1988. Too bad
I broke my airplane when I hit the ground, but better than the Niagra
River or Niagra Falls, which I had been circling 5 minutes prior. ;-(
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: q/Cross Country or Follow Roads |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kolbdriver" <Kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>
Richard,
I don't know about the beautiful installation, BUT THE STUPID THING DID JUST
BLOW UP. And while I was over Tellico lake at that. (guess I'm the dumb
one :~).
Steven
do not archive
Occasionally that doesn't help, I
> have seen beautiful two stroke installations where the stupid engine just
> blew up (Right, Steve?)
>
>
> do not archive
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> At 05:58 PM 7/7/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> >Robert L/Gang:
> >
> >The 912UL and 912ULS added a tremendous amount of reliability to our
> >sport. Couple those engines with a good ole Kolb airplane and one is
> >almost unlimited where they can fly safely.
> >
> >Two stroke days, one would have a hard time convincing me to fly any
> >where I could not make a good forced landing area. Throughout all the
> >engine failures with the two strokes, I was always where I needed to
> >be to make a good forced landing, except a couple times. Then.......I
> >was able to get a restart shortly before crash time. BTW only had one
> >two stroke forced landing that was caused by catastrophic engine
> >failure. The rest were fouled plugs, fuel filters, spark plug wire
> >disconnecting in flight from an inverted Cuyuna, aircleaner going
> >through a wooden prop, etc.
> ><snip>
> >Take care,
> >
> >john h
> >hauck's holler, alabama
> >
> >
>
>
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