Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:16 AM - Re: 447 Follies (Richard Pike)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: MK3 High stall speed problem (Richard Pike)
3. 06:08 AM - Re: 447 Follies (Beauford)
4. 07:22 AM - Re: MK3 High stall speed problem (Herb Gayheart)
5. 07:39 AM - Re: new member with questions (Arksey@aol.com)
6. 08:03 AM - Re: new member with questions (Arksey@aol.com)
7. 08:25 AM - Radio Transmit Noise (John Hauck)
8. 09:31 AM - steel gear legs (W Boyter)
9. 10:34 AM - Re: new member with questions (Jack & Louise Hart)
10. 02:10 PM - Re: new member with questions (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
11. 03:13 PM - Re: 447 Follies (Beauford)
12. 03:14 PM - Re: MK3 High stall speed problem (David Paule)
13. 03:52 PM - Re: steel gear legs (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
14. 04:12 PM - Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings (John Hauck)
15. 04:49 PM - Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings (Beauford)
16. 06:06 PM - Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings (Terry Frantz)
17. 06:17 PM - Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings (Terry Frantz)
18. 09:27 PM - Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings (Larry Cottrell)
19. 09:37 PM - Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings (Richard Pike)
20. 11:19 PM - Re: 447 Follies (DAquaNut@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
First, you need to figure out which Ski-Doo engines the aircraft version is
common with. The website here - and a number of others - Google Ski-Doo
parts - http://216.37.204.206/xtremepowersports/Skidoo_oem/Skidoo.asp
lists probably all the Ski-Doo engines, and cross referencing my Central
Snowmobile catalog, I find that Rotax made a 447 size called the MX Z 440 F
from 1997 - 2001 and a Touring LE from 1997 - 2000, and a Safari LX and a
Safari LXE for the years prior to that. The pistons and rings appear to be
the same size as the aircraft sizes. But... now the cheese gets binding - I
assume that there are no Ski-Doo dealers in or around Tampa Bay (probably
went out of business due to global warming...) and none of the on line
parts sellers listings give any Ski-Doo (Rotax) parts numbers. I don't
expect that the Sea-Doo boat engines are air cooled, so that shoots that.
With the water-cooled 532 I used to have, it was easy, I walked into the
local Sea-Doo dealer with the CPS parts catalog and had them look up "base
gasket" for their boat that used an engine about the same size and vintage
as my 532, and the parts numbers would be the same, except that the boat
part had an extra 3 number prefix. All the boat parts (that I cross
referenced) had nine numbers instead of the six in the CPS, Lockwood, etc.
catalogs. Once we figured that out, as long as the last six numbers
matched, I was comfortable using the boat part. But I never tried that with
important parts like pistons or rings, only things like gaskets, circlips,
seals, etc., and I never had a problem.
Not much help, but that's the best I can come up with, sorry. Looks like if
you want to use a Ski-Doo part, it will mean a long distance phone call or
some very serious Googling...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 05:22 PM 7/16/05 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>Kolbers and Kolbettes...
>Interesting 30 minute ride today... rear cylinder CHT was running 40
>degrees hotter than front...360 on rear, 320 on front. When I played with
>it a little I found that it was possible to induce a decreasing RPM
>condition without moving the throttle... Classic stuck-ring pre-seizure
>symptoms... The EGT's both remained normal at about 1080 at 5600 RPM. Gave
>it PLENTY of gas to cool it down long enough to get back to airstrip.
>
>Tomorrow morning I will pull off the cylinders to take a good look and
>de-carbon the top end.
>
>I have a question... I searched the List archives, but could not find an
>answer... I recall that there has been some List correspondence and
>references in the past about the near- commonality of part numbers between
>Bombardier Ski-Doo parts and Rotax parts... Is there any sort of
>cross-reference to readily identify the Ski-Doo part numbers which will
>fit a 447?
>
>Any info will be greatly appreciated.
>
>Beauford
>FF #076
>Brandon, FL
>
>
>--
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: MK3 High stall speed problem |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
If the tailwheel is touching down before the wing has stalled,
I find it unlikely that it is really going 55 mph.
I would do a calibration of the airspeed indicator.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 02:46 AM 7/17/05 +0200, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Peter Bosch <cheeky@acenet.co.za>
>
>Hi Kolbers,
>I have a customer who purchased a Kolb MK3, 583, 3blade Ivo.
>She stalls at 55 mph in any configuration, tailwheel touches as well
>before the plane
>stalls.
>Any obvious places I can tell him to look?
>Thnx,
>Peter Bosch
>South Africa
>--
>Peter Bosch
>Ultralight Marketing
>Web: http://www.ulm.co.za
>E-mail: cheeky@acenet.co.za
>Po Box 264473. Three Rivers. 1935. South Africa.
>Tel: +27 (0)83 753-4678 Fax: +27 (0)16 933-6540
>
>
>--
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Thank you, Brother Pike....
Gaskets are my primary interest at the moment... and I believe you have
provided the info I needed...
I'm headed out the door to the airstrip now... should know what specific
problem I have by this afternoon...
I suspect I am about to be subjected some good 'ol Florida global warming
while up that stepladder today...
Thanks again,
Beauford
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <richard@bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 447 Follies
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
> First, you need to figure out which Ski-Doo engines the aircraft version
> is
> common with. The website here - and a number of others - Google Ski-Doo
> parts - http://216.37.204.206/xtremepowersports/Skidoo_oem/Skidoo.asp
> lists probably all the Ski-Doo engines, and cross referencing my Central
> Snowmobile catalog, I find that Rotax made a 447 size called the MX Z 440
> F
> from 1997 - 2001 and a Touring LE from 1997 - 2000, and a Safari LX and a
> Safari LXE for the years prior to that. The pistons and rings appear to be
> the same size as the aircraft sizes.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: MK3 High stall speed problem |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb Gayheart <herbgh@juno.com>
Me too bro Pike----Static Port---when I got my MkIII way back when--gone
now---; it came with a warning not to fly below 50 mph!! I made a new
pitot and added a static port. Lowered my stall into the high 30's.
Amazing!! Herb
do not archive
Herb
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:45:00 -0400 Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
> If the tailwheel is touching down before the wing has stalled,
> I find it unlikely that it is really going 55 mph.
> I would do a calibration of the airspeed indicator.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> do not archive
>
> At 02:46 AM 7/17/05 +0200, you wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Peter Bosch <cheeky@acenet.co.za>
> >
> >Hi Kolbers,
> >I have a customer who purchased a Kolb MK3, 583, 3blade Ivo.
> >She stalls at 55 mph in any configuration, tailwheel touches as
> well
> >before the plane
> >stalls.
> >Any obvious places I can tell him to look?
> >Thnx,
> >Peter Bosch
> >South Africa
> >--
> >Peter Bosch
> >Ultralight Marketing
> >Web: http://www.ulm.co.za
> >E-mail: cheeky@acenet.co.za
> >Po Box 264473. Three Rivers. 1935. South Africa.
> >Tel: +27 (0)83 753-4678 Fax: +27 (0)16 933-6540
> >
> >
> >--
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Arksey@aol.com
Thanks Gene Ledbetter,
Thanks for your information on your flying and trailering your Firefly.
Good for you that you are flying, sorry about the loss of your wife. I will for
sure be in contact with you, have lots of questions. I will start looking for
a Kolb to purchase and intend to trailer like you do. I have a farm here
in Michigan and the intention is to put in a grass strip this fall. In
Florida i and my wife stay near Sebring, there is a nice airport there and also
some grass strips in the area. I have met some people there that fly and live
on
grass runway airports. The weather there as you know is excellent in the
winter time for flying. thanks again. Jim Swan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Arksey@aol.com
Hello Steven Green,
Thanks for info I asked for. I will contact Rick Neilson. Thanks again
for taking the time to respond. Jim Swan
Message 7
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| Subject: | Radio Transmit Noise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Larry
Morning Larry C/All:
Don't overreact at one negative comment. Could be the FBO's radio or
the position you and your aircraft were in when transmitting.
Make sure you have a good ground on the antenna coax and on the
intercom, if running one.
Also, if you are not running a large capacitor tied into the 12VDC
system just down stream from the regulator/rectifier, you are probably
getting a lot of noise it would soak up.
There are several sizes of mic muffs, some very large one that go over
the top of the small ones. I got some from Mark Jones at Sigtronics
to try out, but never took time to experiment with them.
May be getting some wind noise from open cockpit.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "W Boyter" <boyter@mcsi.net>
Is there two differnce styles of steel gear legs for the Mark III ? (long & short)
Wayne
400 hrs
Rotax 582
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 10:39 AM 7/17/05 EDT, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Arksey@aol.com
>
>Thanks Gene Ledbetter,
>Thanks for your information on your flying and trailering your Firefly.
>Good for you that you are flying, sorry about the loss of your wife. I will for
>sure be in contact with you, have lots of questions. I will start looking for
>a Kolb to purchase and intend to trailer like you do. I have a farm here
>in Michigan and the intention is to put in a grass strip this fall. In
>Florida i and my wife stay near Sebring, there is a nice airport there and also
>some grass strips in the area. I have met some people there that fly and live
on
>grass runway airports. The weather there as you know is excellent in the
>winter time for flying. thanks again. Jim Swan
>
Jim,
There is a good FireFly advertised for sale not too far from you. It is
listed on barnstormers.com. It weighs 240 and is powered by a Rotax 277.
Very low time and the asking price is below $5,000. From the photos it
looks good. I emailed the owner as I was interested in knowing how well a
FireFly would perform on no more than 28 hp. He said it flies very well.
The reason for selling is that his airport was sold.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05@comcast.net>
Jim
I've been gone for the weekend so I just got you message. I live south of
Grand Ledge, MI at 10471 Royston Rd. My phone number is 517-627-4703 and
would be happy to talk to you. I'm kind of busy this week getting ahead on
my honey do list before the gang drops in Friday for our flight to Oshkosh
but give me a call. Also your welcome to stop in at my home strip Friday or
early Saturday to see my Kolb MKIIIc and three others. There may be one
other airplane there but that's ok not everyone is fortunate enough to fly a
Kolb. Also I winter in Venice Fl and one of my future projects is to build a
light trailer to haul my plane down there and back.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: <Arksey@aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: new member with questions
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Arksey@aol.com
>
> Hello everyone,
> I am a new member, my name is Jim Swan, live near Lansing, Michigan in
> the
> summer and near Sebring Florida in the winter. Got my private when in
> high
> school, soloed in J-3. I am now 74 yrs old and plan on buying a Kolb.
> Would
> like all the info. i could get on trailering Kolb , as I would like to
> take in
> back and forth between Michigan and Florida, so would like to communicate
> with
> those that have experience. Would like also to take some dual in Kolb or
> a
> ride close to my locations. Feel free to contact me: ph 517-663-8488 or
> email
> _ARKSEY@AOL.COM_ (mailto:ARKSEY@AOL.COM) I am in Michigan now until
> late
> October.
> Thanks....have been reading the posts. interesting.
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Problem was coked- on carbon on the top rings.... they were seized. Cleaned
it off the rings, out of the piston grooves, and off the piston crowns...
130 hours on Pennzoil air cooled.
Tomorrow I will get to the sea-doo joint and get the gaskets for reassembly.
Am considering going to a synthetic oil...
Beauford
FF # 076
Brandon, FL
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 447 Follies
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Thank you, Brother Pike....
> Gaskets are my primary interest at the moment... and I believe you have
> provided the info I needed...
> I'm headed out the door to the airstrip now... should know what specific
> problem I have by this afternoon...
> I suspect I am about to be subjected some good 'ol Florida global warming
> while up that stepladder today...
> Thanks again,
> Beauford
> Do Not Archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Pike" <richard@bcchapel.org>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 447 Follies
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>>
>> First, you need to figure out which Ski-Doo engines the aircraft version
>> is
>> common with. The website here - and a number of others - Google Ski-Doo
>> parts - http://216.37.204.206/xtremepowersports/Skidoo_oem/Skidoo.asp
>> lists probably all the Ski-Doo engines, and cross referencing my Central
>> Snowmobile catalog, I find that Rotax made a 447 size called the MX Z 440
>> F
>> from 1997 - 2001 and a Touring LE from 1997 - 2000, and a Safari LX and a
>> Safari LXE for the years prior to that. The pistons and rings appear to
>> be
>> the same size as the aircraft sizes.
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: MK3 High stall speed problem |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
What's the landing roll? If it stalls at 55, it should have a landing roll
of several hundred feet, depending on brake usage.
Dave Paule
dpaule@frii.com
Boulder, CO.
FSII for sale
> I have a customer who purchased a Kolb MK3, 583, 3blade Ivo.
> She stalls at 55 mph in any configuration, tailwheel touches as well
> before the plane
> stalls.
> Any obvious places I can tell him to look?
> Thnx,
> Peter Bosch
> South Africa
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: steel gear legs |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05@comcast.net>
There are two styles of steel gear legs that I'm aware of. I have the older
style steel legs on my MKIII they are solid steel and taper down to the
diameter of the wheel axle. They have been made two ways one with a tubular
extension that helps transfer landing loads further up into the leg socket
and without the extension. They are very springy and some people don't like
their feel. I find they give you a real smooth ride but they can launch you
back into the air if you botch your landing.
The newer style is a fully tubular steel from axle to the upper end. They
look longer, are bent down, and forward. The newer legs appear to be built
using John Hauck's ideas such as taller stance and more weight on the tail.
We haven't received any pilot reports yet.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "W Boyter" <boyter@mcsi.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: steel gear legs
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "W Boyter" <boyter@mcsi.net>
>
> Is there two differnce styles of steel gear legs for the Mark III ? (long
> & short)
>
> Wayne
> 400 hrs
> Rotax 582
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Beauford
Bill T/Gang:
Nothing wrong with Pennzoil for Air Cooled Engines, if the engine is
operated where it should be. Two strokes have a bad habit of not
"clearing" themselves completely if they are not run at high enough
rpm. Rotax two strokes run well at 5,800 to 6,000 rpm cruise. They
come up on the pipe around 5,400 to 5,500 rpm. Anything below that
and you will be contantly adding residual oil to the crankcase. The
incoming charge, at slow speeds, is not fast enough and of enough
volume to keep the crank case cleared.
Ever notice a two stroke after it has sat on the ground for a day or
two. On start up it belches out a nice cloud of blue oil smoke, and
continues to smoke until most of the oil that has settled in the cases
is blown out.
I never seized an aircooled Rotax. Always flew them hard and harder.
Always cruised at 5,800 to 6,000 rpm.
However, it has been more than 15 years since I was a Rotax two stroke
owner/flyer. Maybe things have changed since then.
For what it is worth, ;-)
john h
Former two stroke pilot.
Titus, Alabama
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
John...
Have been cruising it at 5700 or 5800... prop loaded to 6400 level wot...
plugs show very light gray, with no brown...
Got me puzzled... From the rings, looks like it has been burning pine
knots...
Beauford
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 447 Follies/Coked Rings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> Bill T/Gang:
>
> Nothing wrong with Pennzoil for Air Cooled Engines, if the engine is
> operated where it should be. Two strokes have a bad habit of not
> "clearing" themselves completely if they are not run at high enough
> rpm. Rotax two strokes run well at 5,800 to 6,000 rpm cruise. They
> come up on the pipe around 5,400 to 5,500 rpm. Anything below that
> and you will be contantly adding residual oil to the crankcase. The
> incoming charge, at slow speeds, is not fast enough and of enough
> volume to keep the crank case cleared.
>
> Ever notice a two stroke after it has sat on the ground for a day or
> two. On start up it belches out a nice cloud of blue oil smoke, and
> continues to smoke until most of the oil that has settled in the cases
> is blown out.
>
> I never seized an aircooled Rotax. Always flew them hard and harder.
> Always cruised at 5,800 to 6,000 rpm.
>
> However, it has been more than 15 years since I was a Rotax two stroke
> owner/flyer. Maybe things have changed since then.
>
> For what it is worth, ;-)
>
> john h
> Former two stroke pilot.
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry Frantz <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Beauford wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>John...
>Have been cruising it at 5700 or 5800... prop loaded to 6400 level wot...
>plugs show very light gray, with no brown...
>Got me puzzled... From the rings, looks like it has been burning pine
>knots...
>Beauford
>Do not archive
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 447 Follies/Coked Rings
>
>
>
>
Beauford,
I started with Pennzoil Air Cooled on my FireFly and experienced the
same problem. Switched to a synthetic oil (Amzoil) to which I mixed 20%
Pennzoil. Engine began cleaning its self up and is now running quite
clean now. I keep check by examining the cylinder tops when changing
plugs and the rings when I remove the exhaust manifold to repaint every
year. That's the only advantage to having to repaint every year, real
pain!!!
Now have 408 hr's. on my 447 with no tear down and not planning on doing
so soon. I am going to reduce the Pennzoil to 15% mix from now on
because I still getting a bit more residue then I care for.
Not recommending this to anyone else, just responding to you situation.
My two cents worth,
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry Frantz <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Beauford wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>John...
>Have been cruising it at 5700 or 5800... prop loaded to 6400 level wot...
>plugs show very light gray, with no brown...
>Got me puzzled... From the rings, looks like it has been burning pine
>knots...
>Beauford
>Do not archive
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 447 Follies/Coked Rings
>
>
Beauford,
Forgot to mention I'm using 50 to 1 premix and I do most of my flying at
5000 or 5200 rpm.
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
> Beauford wrote:
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>>
>>John...
>>Have been cruising it at 5700 or 5800... prop loaded to 6400 level wot...
>>plugs show very light gray, with no brown...
>>Got me puzzled... From the rings, looks like it has been burning pine
>>knots...
>>Beauford
>>Do not archive
Beauford,
Tear down is a pain, but look at it this way, The standard is decarbon
every 50 hours. I believe you got 120, so look at how much money you saved.
Larry, Oregon
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Am still using Phillips Injex with the injection pump. Normally fly at 54 -
5500. Rings are staying clean, no carbon buildup in the exhaust port. I
try and keep the EGT's around 1050.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:55 PM 7/17/05 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>John...
>Have been cruising it at 5700 or 5800... prop loaded to 6400 level wot...
>plugs show very light gray, with no brown...
>Got me puzzled... From the rings, looks like it has been burning pine
>knots...
>Beauford
>Do not archive
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
In a message dated 7/17/2005 5:14:18 P.M. Central Standard Time,
beauford@tampabay.rr.com writes:
Problem was coked- on carbon on the top rings.... they were seized. Cleaned
it off the rings, out of the piston grooves, and off the piston crowns...
130 hours on Pennzoil air cooled.
Beauford,
I dont want to get anything started but were you using Seafoam
treatment and if so were you following their recommendations? Please, this
question is directed to Beauford only.
Ed ( in Hou. )
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