Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:51 AM - UL's , breakfast and oil (Edward Steuber)
2. 03:50 AM - Re: UL's , breakfast and oil (bryan green)
3. 04:55 AM - Re: UL's , breakfast and oil (John Hauck)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Quiet landings (flykolb@carolina.rr.com)
5. 06:48 AM - q (russ kinne)
6. 07:45 AM - Re: q (snuffy@usol.com)
7. 08:17 AM - Quiet Landings (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
8. 09:18 AM - Re: q (russ kinne)
9. 09:19 AM - Re: Gear legs (DCulver701@aol.com)
10. 10:15 AM - Re: q (snuffy@usol.com)
11. 11:35 AM - Slingshot cage? (Rusty)
12. 12:00 PM - Forced Landings (John Hauck)
13. 12:07 PM - Re: MK III X vs FS KXP (Jim Ballenger)
14. 12:22 PM - Re: Forced Landings (robert bean)
15. 01:50 PM - Re: MK III X vs FS KXP (Chuck Stonex)
16. 02:29 PM - Re: Forced Landings (Richard Pike)
17. 06:55 PM - transporting Firefly (Dan Charter)
18. 08:12 PM - Re: transporting Firefly (Larry Bourne)
19. 08:50 PM - Re: transporting Firefly (Gene D. Ledbetter)
20. 10:18 PM - Flight Report (Roger)
Message 1
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| Subject: | UL's , breakfast and oil |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
Bryan ,
The Ultrastar and Firestar ailerons seem to be a little heavy compared
to the Challenger. I recently took the advice of a couple of our Kolb "Guru's"
on the list and changed the aileron inputs and solved the problem on my particular
machine but it is still not as responsive as the Challenger...not to
say it is dangerous or irritating. I fly an Agcat all week with the roll rate
of a WW2 fighter so I may be a little over critical.........
ED in Western NY
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: UL's , breakfast and oil |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Thanks Ed, Now thats what I'd call a great job.
Bryan Do not archive
Edward Steuber wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
> I fly an Agcat all week with the roll rate of a WW2 fighter so I may be a little
over critical.........
>
ED in Western NY
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: UL's , breakfast and oil |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
heavy compared to the Challenger.
ED
Morning Ed/All:
The airlerons are heavy on most Kolbs as soon as we get enough
airspeed to load them up. Homer designed them to be effective right
through the stall, and that is what they do. However, at speed they
get heavy. Then as Homer told me once when I was complaining about
the heavy roll control at speed, "John, be gentle with the airplane.
It will do what you want it to do."
Had I known back when I was building the US and FS what I know now, I
would have cut 50% of the cord of the ailerons. Both models had full
span ailerons and healthy cords.
The other day I mentioned to someone or maybe on the Kolb List,
Homer's idea of flying was low and slow, just over the stall, no
hurry. Speed was not his thing. All that changed for us as the years
went by. Homer never envisioned his little airplanes flying all over
God's creation and back on long cross country flights.
I never flew a Challenger, or that matter, any other ultralight except
Kolbs. Not qualified to comment and compare other aircraft, except
Burt Howland's personal Honey Bee biplane. It was a sweet little
airplane to fly. Last time I flew it was 1989, at the Flight Farm,
Monterey, NY.
john h
MKIII, 912ULS
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Quiet landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: flykolb@carolina.rr.com
Pat/Jerb/All
I agree that diving for the runway may not always be the best option.
But for me, in that situation, in my judgement, it was. I knew I had
lots of room to slow down once I made the runway (with brakes and flaps
at that time) and I had a very smooth landing. Another time and place a
slip might be better.
Fortunately (??) it wa not my first dead stick landing and my previous
experiences helped me make the right decision for the event.
Thanks,
Jim
Mark III
----- Original Message -----
From: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Quiet landings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
> Have to agree, diving for a field is not the best option or habit
> to learn
> - instead earn to loose altitude by using a slide slip, you can
> also "S
> turn", even slow down. I usually make it a practice to be high on
> final
> and have to side slip it in - this way I control both my speed and
> rate of
> decent but land on my picked spot - your diving method while it
> does get
> you down, it does not build your short field skills.
> I normally will only do a side slip with 2 notches of flaperons,
> wing down
> into the wind and counter with opposite rudder for direction
> control. Practice at altitude then try a few on final.
> jerb
>
>
> At 10:28 AM 7/23/05 +0100, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD"
> <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>>
> >Dove for strip. Flaps would not do it so did away with flaps and
> just dove.
> >Landed on the last 1/3 of runway (2000' grass strip), no problem.>>
> >
> >Hi Jim,
> >on that much runway if you hadn`t landed safely you probably
> shouldn`t be
> >allowed to fly at all.
> >
> >If it had been a small field it would be a different story. NEVER
> dive at a
> >field. All that happens is that you arrive at your landing spot
> going too
> >fast and you will float forever. If it is a small field that
> probably means
> >going through the far hedge or smacking into a wall.
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Pat
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
About "diving for the field" -- that's a real non-no. You'll make the
field, but be landing at a HUGE rate of speed & likely run off the end,
blow a tire, whatever.
If an engine quits, the FIRST thing to do is slow to best-glide speed;
which you should know before you make any takeoff in any aircraft.
Nothing wrong with flaps, but if you think "they will not do it", leave
them down and slip the aircraft. Often you'll have time to do a tight
360 to lose some altitude, if you're at a slow, best-glide speed.
Flaps up, diving for the field, will make your landing roll a lot
longer and that's probably not what you want.
Ever see a skydiving jump-plane come down ? Pilot wants to do it
quickly, and not shock-cool the engine. Usually he makes a spiral,
flaps down and nose-down, and the engine a little above idle. I prefer
to slip with full flaps, very seldom blanked the elevators and at
altitude it doesn't matter anyway.
Bottom line is, keep the aircraft SLOW as possible & still be safe &
stable.
Speed rattles the pilot & would make any collision just that much worse.
NO diving for the field!
Russ Kinne
do not archive
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
" Speed rattles the pilot & "
I'd rather have excess speed to burn off than none.
Do not archive
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Steve Boetto wrote:
<< I am probably the lowest time pilot in a Kolb on the list but ...>>
Steve - I think Big Lar has you beat for that bragging right!
do not archive
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
OK, I stand corrected. TOO MUCH speed rattles the pilot, and I admit,
that's better than none at all. Like halitosis being better than no
breath at all!
If you bleed off speed, that's fine. But diving at the runway isn't
bleeding off speed, just the opposite. Good way to get into trouble.
Russ Kinne
do not archive
On Jul 25, 2005, at 10:44 AM, snuffy@usol.com wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
>
> " Speed rattles the pilot & "
>
> I'd rather have excess speed to burn off than none.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: DCulver701@aol.com
In a message dated 7/24/2005 5:53:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ulpilot@cavtel.net writes:
When I was installing my axles to my aluminum gear legs, I leveled the plane
in the flying attitude and used a straight 8' square tube clamped to both
axles to keep them square with the direction of flight and the plane. I also
installed my gear legs with the 1 " measurement above the taper even with
the bottom of the gear tube on the cage. Ray Brown said you could come up or
down a half inch from the plans measurement if you screwed up and needed to
redrill a hole, but both legs must be the same length. I now have 24 hours
and several landing on the gear. The plane tracks straight on take off and
landing. I can not three point it on landing so I am doing wheel landing
only and it is working out very good.
Jim Ballenger
Selling a FS KXP 447
Flying a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
Hi Jim, how do you like your new MK111 -X compared to your FS KXP 447 ?
Do you think you can tell me what you put in your plane, with an approximate
total cost? What kind of range are you getting & which engine did you use?
I'm looking at a lot of different planes, and just trying to get feedback>
I'd rather hear that info from the people that buy em, and fly em. Tia, best
regards. Dave Culver
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
"corrected. TOO MUCH speed rattles the pilot,"
Rattles the pilot? As in flutter?
Do not
archive
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Greetings,
Does anyone happen to know of a SS cage that's for sale at a reasonable
price? Some wreck damage would be OK, since I'd be modifying it anyway.
Thanks,
Rusty
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
the
| field, but be landing at a HUGE rate of speed & likely run off the
end,
| blow a tire, whatever.
Hi Russ/Gang:
I took the liberty to change the subject line to reflect what you all
are discussing.
I do not know what aircraft you are talking about, but it doesn't
sound like the Kolbs we fly. You will have a tough time getting a
great deal of speed out of a Kolb in a 90 degree dive. Don't blow
many tires either.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: MK III X vs FS KXP |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
Dave
I am really enjoying the MK III X. It is hard to compare the FS with the MK
III. I have the MK III trimmed the way I like to fly and have loads of fun
in it.
At first my ailerons were stiff/heavy, but with the fix I learned about on
the list they became lighter and more Kolb like, light and balanced. The MK
III has a great deal more room than the FS and the ROC is close to the FS.
I have seen as high as 1000 FPM (early morning) but usually around 800 fpm
or less and the higher you go the less ROC . Bear in mind, I am in
Virginia at sea level and it is hot and humid. The plane will cruise very
nicely at 5400 rpm with 72-75 mph IAS and WOT around 92 mph IAS.
I am using the Rotax 582 Blue head with a 66" 3 bladed Warp drive prop. I
have an EIS with the altimeter/VSI option/OAT/ fuel level and a Winter ASI
mounted in the POD. I mounted a Microair radio and a PM 501 intercom with
all my on/off switches in the center console. I used the Kuntzleman hot box
to make the wiring easier and his wing tip strobes. I can only guess at the
total cost, but I would say $22/23K.
I put 2 ten gallon tanks for a total of 20 usable gallons of fuel. I
haven't been on a cross country to get an accurate fuel flow, but around my
flight test area I am burning an average of 4.7 GPH. This gives me a good 3
hours with an one hour reserve of time in the air.
Let me know if you have anymore questions.
Jim Ballenger
Selling a FS KXP 447
Flying a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: <DCulver701@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear legs
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: DCulver701@aol.com
>
>> Hi Jim, how do you like your new MK111 -X compared to your FS KXP 447
?
> Do you think you can tell me what you put in your plane, with an
approximate
> total cost? What kind of range are you getting & which engine did you
use?
> I'm looking at a lot of different planes, and just trying to get feedback>
> I'd rather hear that info from the people that buy em, and fly em. Tia,
best
> regards. Dave Culver
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Not having a lot of Kolb time yet I can't be an authority but with all
the
landing discussion going on I've been trying closed throttle landings
lately. -some of them not too pretty. I've tried to establish a
sub-50mph
glide (if you can call that a "glide") and done a bunch of juggling to
keep
at a still flying speed. Keeps your attention. The sink rate sure is
good
for getting over the hedgerow.
I think I prefer closer to 60 mph. It will still slow down quick enough
to get to a stop in under 1000'. Playing with slow approaches past
a tree line in gusty conditions can get you in trouble.
-BB do not archive
On 25, Jul 2005, at 3:00 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> | About "diving for the field" -- that's a real non-no. You'll make
> the
> end,
> | Russ Kinne
>
> Hi Russ/Gang:
>
> I took the liberty to change the subject line to reflect what you all
> are discussing.
>
> I do not know what aircraft you are talking about, but it doesn't
> sound like the Kolbs we fly. You will have a tough time getting a
> great deal of speed out of a Kolb in a 90 degree dive. Don't blow
> many tires either.
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: MK III X vs FS KXP |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Jim
I'm wondering about your fuel tanks. I was just looking into an upgrade in
that area. I was at a boat supply store and can get am 18 gallon for $134.00
to replace the 3 five gallon tanks I have now. Also I am wondering if you
would send me a pic of you panel. I am also considering the same
radio/intercom setup you mentioned. How (where) did you mount yours? I'd
appreciate your help.
Thanks
Chuck S
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
Dave
I am really enjoying the MK III X. It is hard to compare the FS with the MK
III. I have the MK III trimmed the way I like to fly and have loads of fun
in it.
At first my ailerons were stiff/heavy, but with the fix I learned about on
the list they became lighter and more Kolb like, light and balanced. The MK
III has a great deal more room than the FS and the ROC is close to the FS.
I have seen as high as 1000 FPM (early morning) but usually around 800 fpm
or less and the higher you go the less ROC . Bear in mind, I am in
Virginia at sea level and it is hot and humid. The plane will cruise very
nicely at 5400 rpm with 72-75 mph IAS and WOT around 92 mph IAS.
I am using the Rotax 582 Blue head with a 66" 3 bladed Warp drive prop. I
have an EIS with the altimeter/VSI option/OAT/ fuel level and a Winter ASI
mounted in the POD. I mounted a Microair radio and a PM 501 intercom with
all my on/off switches in the center console. I used the Kuntzleman hot box
to make the wiring easier and his wing tip strobes. I can only guess at the
total cost, but I would say $22/23K.
I put 2 ten gallon tanks for a total of 20 usable gallons of fuel. I
haven't been on a cross country to get an accurate fuel flow, but around my
flight test area I am burning an average of 4.7 GPH. This gives me a good 3
hours with an one hour reserve of time in the air.
Let me know if you have anymore questions.
Jim Ballenger
Selling a FS KXP 447
Flying a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: <DCulver701@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear legs
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: DCulver701@aol.com
>
>> Hi Jim, how do you like your new MK111 -X compared to your FS KXP 447
?
> Do you think you can tell me what you put in your plane, with an
approximate
> total cost? What kind of range are you getting & which engine did you
use?
> I'm looking at a lot of different planes, and just trying to get
feedback>
> I'd rather hear that info from the people that buy em, and fly em. Tia,
best
> regards. Dave Culver
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
With vortex generators and flying solo, 45 is about the minimum approach
speed I ever try for, and then only if it is going to be a very predictable
and fairly shallow approach, because you have no reserve inertia. 50 to 55
gives you much more consistent results. With a full size passenger, 45 does
not give you a landing as much as it does an arrival...because with the
extra weight ahead of the CG, you probably will not have enough elevator
authority to flare.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 03:21 PM 7/25/05 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
>Not having a lot of Kolb time yet I can't be an authority but with all
>the
>landing discussion going on I've been trying closed throttle landings
>lately. -some of them not too pretty. I've tried to establish a
>sub-50mph
>glide (if you can call that a "glide") and done a bunch of juggling to
>keep
>at a still flying speed. Keeps your attention. The sink rate sure is
>good
>for getting over the hedgerow.
>I think I prefer closer to 60 mph. It will still slow down quick enough
>to get to a stop in under 1000'. Playing with slow approaches past
>a tree line in gusty conditions can get you in trouble.
>-BB do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | transporting Firefly |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" <lndc@fnbcnet.com>
The wing attachment to the tail on a Firefly looks pretty feeble. Do the wings
have to come off to transport?
Dan Charter
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: transporting Firefly |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I don't know as I'd say "feeble," but certainly not bullet proof, either.
There've been several threads in the last couple of months about supporting
the wings in the trailer while transporting. Look especially for the ones
by Dave Pelletier and his in-trailer support system for his Mk III. It'd
work just as well for a single seater. Larry Cottrell's idea of an inner
tube for the same purpose is a good'un, too. Many others have come up with
unique and useful ideas. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Charter" <lndc@fnbcnet.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: transporting Firefly
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" <lndc@fnbcnet.com>
>
> The wing attachment to the tail on a Firefly looks pretty feeble. Do the
> wings have to come off to transport?
> Dan Charter
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: transporting Firefly |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gene D. Ledbetter" <gdledbetter@earthlink.net>
Dan,
I've been transporting my firefly to Florida the last 4 winters and
installed brackets in my trailer that I hang the wings on. My web
site has photos.
homepage.mac.com/gene1930
This system has worked very well for me.
Gene
On Jul 25, 2005, at 9:53 PM, Dan Charter wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" <lndc@fnbcnet.com>
>
> The wing attachment to the tail on a Firefly looks pretty feeble.
> Do the wings have to come off to transport?
> Dan Charter
>
>
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Roger" <rphanks@grantspass.com>
Hello All:
I would like to report on a great day of flying. I left Grants Pass, OR just as
the sun broke over the hills and headed east for Plum Valley international,
Larry Cottrell's mountain pasture/airstrip 80 miles away. An hour and 20 mins
later I heard Larry's voice in my headset as I looked for the field. A full
circle of the field and a few questions over the radio helped clear up where the
runway was. I cleared the tall pines on the south end, touched down under the
power lines and rolled to a stop just in front of Larry's firestar (almost
like I knew what I was doing). Brakes might be a good addition to the KXP this
winter. Larry and I discussed where we should go as I topped off the tanks.
Low flying isn't something I get to do a lot of in my local area, so we decided
to head North and intercept the Sprague River, follow it to the town of Bly
and then circle back past Gerber Reservoir and Langell Valley on the way back
to Plum Valley.
What followed were two-plus hours of spectacular scenery and carefree tree-top
flying. We spotted coyotes, bald eagles, canada geese, american ibis, sandhill
cranes, redtail hawks, pelicans, pronghorn antelope, and thousands of cattle.
The Sprague River follows a very twisting path through mostly pasture and farm
lands. The KXP can follow every contour if you slow down to about 50mph.
Above that the ailerons start to feel heavier and your turn radius opens up some.
Every now and then we had to conduct strafing manuvers on a tractor or two.
When we got to Bly, we left the river and headed across the hills toward
Gerber reservoir. We surprised the potbellied guy up in the fire lookout as we
crossed one ridge line. He wasn't expecting company, I guess. He had his shirt
off and was waving like crazy (it wasn't pretty). With twenty miles left
to go, my bladder exceeded its comfort limit. We put down in an alfalfa field
and relieved the pressure. The son of the owner soon showed up on a dirt bike
to check us out. While he gave Larry's firestar a thorough inspection, his
dog layed down in the shade underneath the firestar and bent Larry's com antenna
to the side. We thanked the gentleman for the use of his field (he insisted
the pleasure was all his) and headed on. Larry landed first to check out the
winds and I followed. This time I didn't have to shut off the ignition to
stop at the right spot. Practice makes perfect.
I topped off the tanks again and headed back over the Cascade mountains for home.
I had a bit of a headwind at 7500', but less than I was expecting. The trip
back took an hour and a half. I landed number three behind a K-max helicopter
and a 172. The K-max landed not a hundred yards from my pickup and trailer,
shut down his engines, and started pumping fuel. I had the KXP folded and
in the trailer in record time. The thought of him lifting off that close was
a bit motivating.
Total flight time for the trip was 5.3 hours.
GPS recorded 328 miles flown
Fuel burn: 15 gals
With appologies to Rev. Pike, I can't think of a better way to spend a Sunday morning.
Flying with a friend.
Roger in Oregon
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