Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:25 AM - Re: Pre Mix made easy (PATRICK LADD)
2. 07:34 AM - Re: Pre Mix made easy (ray anderson)
3. 10:44 AM - Re: Hello (PATRICK LADD)
4. 12:00 PM - Items for sale (Charles & Meredith Blackwell)
5. 01:01 PM - Twin Engine Firestar 2 (David L. Bigelow)
6. 01:08 PM - Re: Pre Mix made easy - MMO (Beauford)
7. 01:14 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (dama)
8. 01:19 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (Larry Bourne)
9. 01:20 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (John Hauck)
10. 01:36 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (John Hauck)
11. 01:46 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (Rusty)
12. 02:26 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (Christopher Armstrong)
13. 02:47 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (John Hauck)
14. 03:39 PM - Re: Hello (Mitty)
15. 05:25 PM - the 447 - Part Two (Beauford)
16. 06:14 PM - Lockwood's Diagnosis (Beauford)
17. 07:02 PM - Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis (Herb Gayheart)
18. 07:10 PM - Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis (John Hauck)
19. 08:01 PM - Getting Ready for TNK Homecoming (John Williamson)
20. 08:03 PM - Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis (Beauford)
21. 08:15 PM - Re: Getting Ready for TNK Homecoming (John Hauck)
22. 08:24 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (David L. Bigelow)
23. 08:26 PM - Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis (Herb Gayheart)
24. 08:46 PM - Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis (Beauford)
25. 10:02 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (woody)
26. 10:26 PM - Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 (Robert Laird)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Mix made easy |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Marvel Mystery Oil is an additive for auto gas and oil in this
country. Not a 2 cycle oil . >>
Hi Herb,
I wasn`t aware of that and that is not the way the various [posts have read.
I have not seen any petrol additives since just after WW2 when we had some
stuff called Redex. Its main selling point was that `it increased the
mileage per gallon` (it says here) and as we were still on rationing at that
point it sold pretty well.
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
--
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Mix made easy |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
I believe one of the first mentions of using Marvel Mystery Oil is found in the
engine manuals for the C3 Aeroncas beginning in 1928 I believe. I have owned
three C3's and have one of the original engine manuals (2 cylinder Aeronca Engine)
for my 1931 C3. It specifically states that the MMO should be added to the
gasoline to lower valve stem temps and mentions the testing they did to verify
this substantial drop in temp, resulting in much longer life. I have used
it in a variety of Aircraft and Motorcycle engines beginning with my Szekley powered
Curtiss Wright Jr in 1936 as well as in the C3's. It works as claimed.
Ray Anderson
Kolb UltraStar
DO NOT ARCHIVE
PATRICK LADD <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD"
Marvel Mystery Oil is an additive for auto gas and oil in this
country. Not a 2 cycle oil . >>
Hi Herb,
I wasn`t aware of that and that is not the way the various [posts have read.
I have not seen any petrol additives since just after WW2 when we had some
stuff called Redex. Its main selling point was that `it increased the
mileage per gallon` (it says here) and as we were still on rationing at that
point it sold pretty well.
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
--
---------------------------------
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
I had a hard time to learn not to pull the stick while i turn though:)>>
you have been tuning WITHOUT pulling the stick back?
Have you looked at the altimeter or the variometer while you do that?
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
--
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Charles & Meredith Blackwell <wozani@optonline.net>
For anyone still interested in some accessories, here they are:
Ultracom II intercom ($160), 2 Comtronics Headsets ($360), PTT switch and patch
cord ($99) together a $619 value. All have only 20 hours of use and are in
immaculate condition. Bought them last summer. Now selling the package for $275
or best offer.
GPS was sold.
Unfortunately need the money more than the toys due to medical bills.
Charlie, MkII in NJ
P.S. Price on MkII is reduced if anyone iterested ($9,000) or best offer
http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=wozani@optonline.net
Appreciate what you have, when you have it
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 5
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| Subject: | Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
Well, I've committed to converting my FS2 to a twin engine aircraft. I've been
thinking about it for a long time, and decided to "go for it". The Big Island
is about 90% unlandable terrain, and I'm getting tired of betting my rear end
on a single two stroke engine every flight.
I've looked at several ways of doing the conversion, and have decided to cantilever
a beam across the original mounts and mount the engines on the ends of the
beam. There will be a prop extension on one engine, and the props will overlap
about 19 in. The major problem with this method is that it has to be done
just right so the wing folding isn't interfered with. Also, it has to be done
with two blade props, again because of wing folding. There is 93 inches clearance
between the ailerons, and the double prop disk will span 89 inches.
I looked at a lot of engines, and ordered two Hirth F-33's. They are 313 cc singles
with dual ignition and a 2.5:1 poly V belt redrive with electric start.
Both of them together (complete) weigh about the same as the Rotax 503. The
main design criterion is to put together an installation where the FS will fly
with a slight climb on one engine. There's no point in doing the conversion
if you can't stay in the air with one engine.
The F-33 with a two blade Powerfin 54 inch prop will put out 180 lbs of thrust
(from tests by users). Taking into account the high density altitude (5,000 ft)
where I live, 150 lbs is a realistic expectation. I tied my FS to a spring
fish scale, and found the RPM (5,700) that gives 150 lb. of thrust. I then flew
the ship with the power set at 5700 RPM, and even did some takeoffs at that
setting from a local airport with a long runway. I consistently was able to
get 200-300 fpm climb at 45 mph indicated. The numbers say it should work.....
There is some chance of taking out both props if something large comes off one
of the engines and goes through the props, but I'm going to do my best to do a
good solid installation. I'll take pictures as the project moves along and
post them.
Wish me luck!
Dave Bigelow
FS2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, Hawaii
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Mix made easy - MMO |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
10 ounces of MMO per 50 gallon gas load was 100% successful at keeping the
Stinson's 165 Franklin's valves from sticking (Franklins were famous for
sticking valves) for the nine years Beauford had it... The elderly (now a
relative term) mechanic who sold it to me preached that the MMO dosage was
as essential as the oil in the crankcase... Also, a daily glass of MMO
before breakfast has also served to prevent further corrosion and
flapper-valve deterioration in Beauford's notoriously trouble-prone
prostate...
I notice that MMO is up to $10 a gallon in Wal-Mart.... IMHO still a
bargain.... (it's great over ice after a long day)
Beauford
FF#076
Brandon FL
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "ray anderson" <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Pre Mix made easy
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>
> I believe one of the first mentions of using Marvel Mystery Oil is found
> in the engine manuals for the C3 Aeroncas beginning in 1928 I believe. I
> have owned three C3's and have one of the original engine manuals (2
> cylinder Aeronca Engine) for my 1931 C3. It specifically states that the
> MMO should be added to the gasoline to lower valve stem temps and mentions
> the testing they did to verify this substantial drop in temp, resulting in
> much longer life. I have used it in a variety of Aircraft and Motorcycle
> engines beginning with my Szekley powered Curtiss Wright Jr in 1936 as
> well as in the C3's. It works as claimed.
> Ray Anderson
> Kolb UltraStar
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> PATRICK LADD <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD"
>
>
> Marvel Mystery Oil is an additive for auto gas and oil in this
> country. Not a 2 cycle oil . >>
>
> Hi Herb,
>
> I wasn`t aware of that and that is not the way the various [posts have
> read.
> I have not seen any petrol additives since just after WW2 when we had some
> stuff called Redex. Its main selling point was that `it increased the
> mileage per gallon` (it says here) and as we were still on rationing at
> that
> point it sold pretty well.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
> do not archive
>
>
> --
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" <dama@mindspring.com>
Very interesting! Keep us posted.
Kip
do not archive
http://www.springeraviation.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Twin Engine Firestar 2
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow"
<dlbigelow@verizon.net>
>
> Well, I've committed to converting my FS2 to a twin engine aircraft. I've
been thinking about it for a long time, and decided to "go for it". The Big
Island is about 90% unlandable terrain, and I'm getting tired of betting my
rear end on a single two stroke engine every flight.
>
> I've looked at several ways of doing the conversion, and have decided to
cantilever a beam across the original mounts and mount the engines on the
ends of the beam. There will be a prop extension on one engine, and the
props will overlap about 19 in. The major problem with this method is that
it has to be done just right so the wing folding isn't interfered with.
Also, it has to be done with two blade props, again because of wing folding.
There is 93 inches clearance between the ailerons, and the double prop disk
will span 89 inches.
>
> I looked at a lot of engines, and ordered two Hirth F-33's. They are 313
cc singles with dual ignition and a 2.5:1 poly V belt redrive with electric
start. Both of them together (complete) weigh about the same as the Rotax
503. The main design criterion is to put together an installation where the
FS will fly with a slight climb on one engine. There's no point in doing
the conversion if you can't stay in the air with one engine.
>
> The F-33 with a two blade Powerfin 54 inch prop will put out 180 lbs of
thrust (from tests by users). Taking into account the high density altitude
(5,000 ft) where I live, 150 lbs is a realistic expectation. I tied my FS
to a spring fish scale, and found the RPM (5,700) that gives 150 lb. of
thrust. I then flew the ship with the power set at 5700 RPM, and even did
some takeoffs at that setting from a local airport with a long runway. I
consistently was able to get 200-300 fpm climb at 45 mph indicated. The
numbers say it should work.....
>
> There is some chance of taking out both props if something large comes off
one of the engines and goes through the props, but I'm going to do my best
to do a good solid installation. I'll take pictures as the project moves
along and post them.
>
> Wish me luck!
>
> Dave Bigelow
> FS2, 503 DCDI
> Kamuela, Hawaii
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I'm with you 100%, Dave. I like the idea, and I think it should work. At
the very least you'll get some peace of mind, and if an engine DOes quit,
you'll be grinning. Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Twin Engine Firestar 2
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow"
> <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
>
> Well, I've committed to converting my FS2 to a twin engine aircraft. I've
> been thinking about it for a long time, and decided to "go for it". The
> Big Island is about 90% unlandable terrain, and I'm getting tired of
> betting my rear end on a single two stroke engine every flight.
>
> I've looked at several ways of doing the conversion, and have decided to
> cantilever a beam across the original mounts and mount the engines on the
> ends of the beam. There will be a prop extension on one engine, and the
> props will overlap about 19 in. The major problem with this method is
> that it has to be done just right so the wing folding isn't interfered
> with. Also, it has to be done with two blade props, again because of wing
> folding. There is 93 inches clearance between the ailerons, and the
> double prop disk will span 89 inches.
>
> I looked at a lot of engines, and ordered two Hirth F-33's. They are 313
> cc singles with dual ignition and a 2.5:1 poly V belt redrive with
> electric start. Both of them together (complete) weigh about the same as
> the Rotax 503. The main design criterion is to put together an
> installation where the FS will fly with a slight climb on one engine.
> There's no point in doing the conversion if you can't stay in the air with
> one engine.
>
> The F-33 with a two blade Powerfin 54 inch prop will put out 180 lbs of
> thrust (from tests by users). Taking into account the high density
> altitude (5,000 ft) where I live, 150 lbs is a realistic expectation. I
> tied my FS to a spring fish scale, and found the RPM (5,700) that gives
> 150 lb. of thrust. I then flew the ship with the power set at 5700 RPM,
> and even did some takeoffs at that setting from a local airport with a
> long runway. I consistently was able to get 200-300 fpm climb at 45 mph
> indicated. The numbers say it should work.....
>
> There is some chance of taking out both props if something large comes off
> one of the engines and goes through the props, but I'm going to do my best
> to do a good solid installation. I'll take pictures as the project moves
> along and post them.
>
> Wish me luck!
>
> Dave Bigelow
> FS2, 503 DCDI
> Kamuela, Hawaii
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Well, I've committed to converting my FS2 to a twin engine aircraft.
| Dave Bigelow
Hi Dave/Gang:
Are you planning to feed both engines from a single fuel tank?
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| There is some chance of taking out both props if something large
comes off one of the engines and goes through the props, but I'm going
to do my best to do a good solid installation. | Dave Bigelow
Hi Dave/Gang:
Prop survivabilty can be increased significantly by using Warp Drive
Props. They have proven to be much more durable than any of the other
available props. One of the primary reasons I have been using them
for the last 12 years and 2,300+ hours.
I did an involuntary test on a 70" three blade warp drive prop on my
912UL at WOT. A single 1.5" X18" steel exhaust pipe with a 180 deg
and a 90 deg bend seperated at the exhaust outlet on the head and went
through the prop. Heard a terrific noise, felt a severe jolt, and
picked up a slight vibration. Throttled back, flew to the next
airport, landed and checked out my situation. Discovered a good size
scar on the leading edge of one blade, and smaller scars on the
remaining two blades. Got back in the MKIII, flew 11.2 sm home to
Gantt IAP with no problem.
Did an involuntary test on a GSC three blade wood prop on a 582.
Think the air filter went through it. Collected all three blades and
destroyed them, damaged the tail boom to the degree of replacement
(actually bent the tail boom out of column a few degrees), shut the
engine down by slinging the carbs, and shook so hard it broke both
starter mounting bolts on the mag end of the 582. Throttle and
enricher cables were securing the carbs, and the battery cable was
securing the starter.
Usually, when we have problems with two and four stroke engines on our
airplanes, the problem is related to something insignificant, i.e.,
contaminated fuel, wiring problem, broken throttle cable (actually
stripping the little lead ball of the end), spark plug wire, broken
exhaust system on two strokes, etc.
There are some folks out there flying Hirth engines. To each his own.
They do not have a good reputation for reliability. I personally
would not fly one. My own personal opinion for what it is worth,
which ain't much. Please do not take my "opinion" wrong. I am basing
it on the history of use of the Hirth two stroke engines as I have
read and heard about them since they came into use on UL and lt
planes.
Take care,
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
Message 11
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| Subject: | Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Well, I've committed to converting my FS2 to a twin engine aircraft. I've
been thinking about it for a long time, and decided to "go for it".
-----------
Right on Dave! As you know, I've been thinking of doing the same with a SS,
though it's going to have to wait until after the single rotor project is
complete.
As for the partially overlapped props, there's a company that is doing this
with a spray plane- http://vstolaircraft.com/
Good luck,
Rusty
Message 12
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| Subject: | Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
I think that this project has a very good chance of resulting in an engine
out since you are trading the very best two-stroke out there for two with a
less then stellar record, more then quadrupling your odds of an engine out,
or probably both engines out since fuel problems cause as many engine
stoppages as anything, and you probably are not going to have separate fuel
systems, or are you? If you do end up flying with one fairly low powered, of
center engine while dragging a for sure windmilling prop covering
approximately 1/3 of the good prop disk I predict extremely poor
performance, probably not able to maintain altitude, terrible control
characteristics and a very good chance of a crash due to stall spin at low
altitude, the very worst thing that you can do.
Other then that I think it is a great idea, and I look forward to seeing the
results!
Christopher Armstrong
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David L. Bigelow
Subject: Kolb-List: Twin Engine Firestar 2
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
Well, I've committed to converting my FS2 to a twin engine aircraft. I've
been thinking about it for a long time, and decided to "go for it". The Big
Island is about 90% unlandable terrain, and I'm getting tired of betting my
rear end on a single two stroke engine every flight.
I've looked at several ways of doing the conversion, and have decided to
cantilever a beam across the original mounts and mount the engines on the
ends of the beam. There will be a prop extension on one engine, and the
props will overlap about 19 in. The major problem with this method is that
it has to be done just right so the wing folding isn't interfered with.
Also, it has to be done with two blade props, again because of wing folding.
There is 93 inches clearance between the ailerons, and the double prop disk
will span 89 inches.
I looked at a lot of engines, and ordered two Hirth F-33's. They are 313 cc
singles with dual ignition and a 2.5:1 poly V belt redrive with electric
start. Both of them together (complete) weigh about the same as the Rotax
503. The main design criterion is to put together an installation where the
FS will fly with a slight climb on one engine. There's no point in doing
the conversion if you can't stay in the air with one engine.
The F-33 with a two blade Powerfin 54 inch prop will put out 180 lbs of
thrust (from tests by users). Taking into account the high density altitude
(5,000 ft) where I live, 150 lbs is a realistic expectation. I tied my FS
to a spring fish scale, and found the RPM (5,700) that gives 150 lb. of
thrust. I then flew the ship with the power set at 5700 RPM, and even did
some takeoffs at that setting from a local airport with a long runway. I
consistently was able to get 200-300 fpm climb at 45 mph indicated. The
numbers say it should work.....
There is some chance of taking out both props if something large comes off
one of the engines and goes through the props, but I'm going to do my best
to do a good solid installation. I'll take pictures as the project moves
along and post them.
Wish me luck!
Dave Bigelow
FS2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, Hawaii
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| If you do end up flying with one fairly low powered, off
| center engine while dragging a for sure windmilling prop covering
| approximately 1/3 of the good prop disk I predict extremely poor
| performance, probably not able to maintain altitude, terrible
control
| characteristics and a very good chance of a crash due to stall spin
at low
| altitude, the very worst thing that you can do.
Topher/Gang:
Usually, when using a redrive, the prop will not windmill on a dead
engine.
The FS is an easy airplane to fly. They will fly almost as well a
full ball width out of trim as they do trimmed up. I don't know what
the hp of the single cyl Hirth is, but probably around 25 to 30.
Should be able to maintain enough airspeed to fly without stalling and
still maintain altitude.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mitty <benny_bee_01@yahoo.com>
Oh yeah,glimsing every now and then but no altitude
gain or loss.I had to work on it for a while to make a
steep turns without any altitude loss or gain.Of
course there is some corrections for thermals and wind
gusts but NOTHING close to RC as far as banking and
pulling up .Guess the point is RC will help you
understand principals of stalls,turns,rolls,pitch and
yaw but RC is just different.At least for me.
do not archive
--- PATRICK LADD <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD"
> <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>
> I had a hard time to learn not to pull the stick
> while i turn though:)>>
>
> you have been tuning WITHOUT pulling the stick back?
>
> Have you looked at the altimeter or the variometer
> while you do that?
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
> do not archive
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | the 447 - Part Two |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
The geezer squinted through the windshield of his battered pickup as he tried to
make out the road through the heavy rain... He knew from the dead vegetation
in the fields and the gnarled, lifeless skeletons of trees that he was once again
getting close to Sebring. It had been four days since he had dropped off
the carbon encrusted, but nearly new, Rotax 447 at the gates to the Lockwood
Castle.
He winced as he remembered the curses of the old gatekeeper that day at being called
out from his shack into the rain, the brace of snarling Mastiffs half dragging
him to the door of the truck.
"It's Beauford of Brandon, come with the 447... I called ahead, you know..."
The wizened figure from the gateshack had fumbled, drooling tobacco on his clipboard
as he raked through the sodden pages... After several minutes, and after
peering from under the dripping brim of his tattered hat into the vehicle's
cab to make certain the geezer was alone, he bared rotted black teeth and leaned
forward... "Show me your VISA, he snarled..." Reeling from the foul odor
of Air Cooled Pennzoil on the old man's breath, the geezer dug out his battered
wallet and held up the requested item... "Wait here, you" the gatesman muttered.
He turned, fighting the two beasts back into the gloom of the shack...
There was the sound of a phone being dialed... then "It's him, I reckon... he's
got it..."
The gates, moving with no visible hands upon them, had swung ponderously aside,
and the Geezer slowly wound his way through the drizzle up the narrow winding
drive, hardly wider than a footpath in places... The wheels spun in the black
muck, sending pebbles skittering down the side of the hill... At the walls of
Lockwood, yet another tall rusted gate blocked his passage, stretching itself
across a dark portal in the stone walls... and as he lowered his truck's window
and contemplated the new obstacle, a booming voice from within commanded "leave
it there." He sensed shapeless forms moving in the half light, but could
make out no one...he thought he saw what looked like a winged monkey skittering
along a wall...
"Leave it, I say...and your VISA card as well!" came the voice again...
He dismounted from the truck and obediently unloaded the low-total-time Rotax onto
the muddy ground, ruefully noting the trail of black carbon filth across the
white paint of the tailgate and the oily pile of carbon coke debris where it
had rested in the bed of the truck during the trip. He turned back toward the
gate... "May I see the mechanic...?" The question had echoed back to him from
the dark interior of the castle, and he knew the answer even before he heard
it.... Faint, low laughter... then, "Begone from this Lockwood place, for we
are the Regional Authorized Kodiak Service Center....and you are not" He winced
at this unwarranted insult, then dug out his now wimpering wallet, extracted
his faded VISA and wedged it into a convenient carbon deposit which had freshly
formed atop the intake manifold of the 447. He thought, for just a moment,
that he heard more laughter from inside the gate, then shrugged it off as
his imagination. He paused to contemplate the sad spectacle of the extremely
low-time 447, the credit card perched jauntily atop it like a small blue flag
of surrender... While he watched, a small slab of carbon slowly oozed down the
exhaust side a few inches, then lost its grip and plopped into the mud... He
sighed, shaking his head, then remounting his vehicle found his perilous way
back down the strangely shaped hill and drove the two hours back to Brandon.
About an hour east of Sebring the sun had abruptly come out, the truck's radio
had come back to life and he again began to notice birds, livestock and living
vegetation along the road. That was Monday, last.
This morning the dreaded call came... "Come to Sebring...it is done...this is a
recording."
Now, as he made his way for a second time back through the gloom and mist of the
flooded highway, he resolved that he would talk to a Lockwood mechanic, or perish
in the attempt.
As he approached, the lower gates opened before him, although there was no person
or animal in evidence at the gateshack. He made his way up the hillside drive,
cursing again at the steepness of the narrow way and noting the peculiar,
almost angular, bumpiness of the surface...
To his surprise, the tall gates at the top were open and there was a person standing
to the side beckoning him to drive into the courtyard. As he got closer,
the Geezer realized it was an exquisitely attractive young redheaded woman dressed
in what appeared to be a black neoprene rubber jumpsuit with a red Rotax
logo across the chest, and she smiled broadly at him and greeted him by his
name as he slowly rolled past. He became vaguely aware that a small stream of
saliva was trickling out of the corner of his mouth and down the front of his
"Beat Navy" T-shirt.
The Geezer parked where she pointed, and got out, stopping just long enough to
dig into the glove compartment and break out two nitroglycerine pills and pop
them under his tongue... Something told him that this situation looked riskier
than a 2-stroke trans-Atlantic crossing, and he wasn't taking any chances...
As he climbed out of the truck, he heard a grinding noise and turned to see a grate
in the castle wall sliding slowly upward... Behind it was a low, wooden
two-wheel cart... A hooded, muscular man in knee-high boots, black breeches and
bare chest began pushing the cart forward toward the Geezer... a second man,
similarly attired, carried aloft a flaming wooden torch and stood waiting in
the doorway while his companion rolled the cart forward. The Geezer could see
that the interior of the passageway behind them was lined with such torches whose
light glittered and reflected off dripping stone walls far back into the
building...
For the first time, the Geezer realized that there was a Rotax 447 in the cart...
He knew it would be his.
"Ahem" came from his rear in a husky, but unmistakably female voice... He turned
to see her smiling at him across a clipboard which carried a sheaf of multicolored
paperwork and his now splintered and disfigured VISA card. "If you will
just sign here, Sir," she purred...
The geezer drew himself up, sucked on the last remains of the nitroglycerine, and
croaked..."I'd like to talk to the mechanic that fixed my engine." There was
a collective sharp intake of breath from the three Lockwood employees... The
man at the cart lowered the handles to the ground... The man with the torch
moved forward slightly...
The woman spoke... "I'm sorry, sir... It's not permitted... No one can talk to
the mechanic except Mr. Lockwood and the men from Gunskirchen... you know, where
the Rotaxes are made...
"Sorry, Baby... no talk, no signature... I'm prepared to wait as long as it takes,
and you know that time, inconvenience and mere pain mean absolutely nothing
to a man who has been married 40 years and owns and operates a 2 cycle Rotax..."
The Geezer watched as the three stepped away and conferred briefly... There was
a cell phone call with abundant gesturing, which ended with, "yessir, I understand...
yessir five minutes... yessir, the outer repair room only... Got it,
sir."
The woman stepped forward, producing a black blindfold from somewhere the Geezer
never quite ascertained, and placed it over his face. Some minutes later, following
a long walk down a descending passageway dank with the stench of Pennziol
Air-Cooled, the Geezer was aware that they had passed through massive doors
into an air conditioned room. The blindfold was removed and he blinked in the
bright fluorescent lighting.
The room was immense... Steel tables lined the walls... Dozens of silent men hunched
over Rotax 2-strokes in various stages of disassembly. Carbon coke was ankle
deep on the floor. Grates in the floor revealed additional levels of activity
below... There was the soft hiss of lightly pressurized air through ducts
in the ceiling... Through the soles of his worn Nikes, the Geezer could feel
the low hum and throb of powerful, distant machinery. A small, slender man with
a pale complexion festooned with advanced acne stood before him. The man was
wearing Dickies work pants and a gray short-sleeved shirt embroidered with
"Lockwood Aviation Group" across one pocket, and "Lance" across the other.
"Show me my old Rotax parts" the Geezer croaked....Without a word, the little man
spun on his heel and walked to a side door. "Watch your step," he warned as
they passed through it into a cacophony of intense sound and heat... They had
stepped out onto a metal platform suspended over a huge open bay... It spread
at least five floors deep before them... Far below, two large white front-loaders
emblazoned with Red "Rotax" logos across the rear were at work, steadily
reducing large piles of almost unidentifiable carbon-covered metal objects of
various sizes and shapes, loading them through the maws of several large furnace
doors...
At the far end of the bay, molten streams of metal poured into molds... row upon
row of shining ingots, each bearing the "Rotax 2-Cycle" sat steaming and cooling...
"I think your parts went into the pile on the left," Lance yelled above the din....they
would be near the top there somewhere...
Outside, the Geezer quietly signed the VISA paperwork and watched while Hans and
Helmut, the two guys with the cart and the torch, loaded the 447 into the back
of the pickup. He had struck up a conversation with them on the blindfolded
walk back up through the passageway, and learned that they were both from Gunskirchen.
Helga, the redhead in the jumpsuit,turned out to be from Louisville. She handed
him his copies and pushed the button to open the gates... As he crunched through
the black gravel to get back into the truck, the gravel suddenly caught his
eye... He knelt down and poured a handful through his fingers... it was carbon
coke from 2 strokes...
He made a brief stop halfway down the hill to take a closer look at an outcropping
hanging out over the road... he got out and walked around the side of the
truck... Something was poking out of the soil. He pulled it and it came free
in his hand... an exhaust manifold from a 447... and there's a cylinder from a
503...and this looks like a crankcase half from a 582...
The truth washed over him... the whole mountain under Lockwood was a stack of junked
2-cycle Rotaxes...
The Geezer drove home without stopping. He made a Beefeater Martini, got a Macanudo
stogie and went out into the back yard. He knew that his wife would likely
be there to open the VISA bill when it came...
Do Not Archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Lockwood's Diagnosis |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Kolbers:
For the curious...
Lockwood put two new pistons in the 447, re-honed the jugs, cleaned out the carbon,
and declared it good to go...
Excessive piston to cylinder wall clearance was the verdict... had over .008 in
both
They installed standard size "green dot" pistons... For those not familiar with
the colors, green dot or red dot is the Rotax way of sizing pistons...
Greens are slightly "fat" and reds are slightly "skinny" , but technically, both
are
standard size.
Both cylinders were in good shape with little wear.
Case is tight... no leaking seals.
Timing is right on... wiring of trigger inside case is OK.
Reason for all the carbon is still unclear. They suspected the carb and they
went through it in detail. The enrichment piston's rubber bottom was
excessively recessed and the part was replaced. Theory is that it could have
been leaking raw fuel.
They also were suspicious of the pump primer, although they did not have it to
look at.
Mechs said that bad primers can ruin 2 stroke engines... depending on how they
fail, they can suck
either air or raw gas when they become defective. They recommend throwing it away
and getting a new
one annually. New primer pump is under $10 at Lockwood.
For John Hauck... The mechs all agree with you that running the 2-stroke engines
hard and
relatively lightly propped is best for them. recommend 6200 static and 6500 or
6600
level at WOT for the 447. Cruise at least 5800 and 6000 will not hurt it.
They said the 2-strokes, especially 447's, are highly sensitive to excessive oil
in the mix. Even a little extra is
bad news and will carbon things up quickly.... stay at exactly 50 to 1 for daily
operation.
Break in is different....I was surprised, but they said to do the break-in at 25
to 1... rings will seat faster and better
with the double oil. The little extra carbon will blow away quickly when you switch
to normal mix ratio.
This is not in any of the Rotax literature... they laughed and said they know it's
not, but use 25 to 1 anyway.
Got a warning about black automotive fuel lines... don't use them with pre-mix.
They are fine for straight gas,
but swell up and delaminate internally when exposed to oil in the gas.
Saw a totally cratered 912 today. Someone failed to heed the Rotax service bulletin
about valve keeper
replacement. It came in yesterday and they had it torn down on the bench -- it
looked like a bomb had gone
off in it... swallowed a valve and the fun spread from there. all pistons exploded,
heads broken in half,
major metal chunks all through all cylinders...etc... total loss... ugly.
Tomorrow I will be back up the 'ol ladder at Manatee putting it all back together
and breaking it in.
My thanks to all who offered advice while I was fooling with this problem...
Regards,
Beauford
FF #076
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb Gayheart <herbgh@juno.com>
Beauford
Did they offer any reason why you had so much skirt/piston wear in a
relatively short time? Herb
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:22:11 -0400 "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford"
> <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Kolbers:
> For the curious...
>
> Lockwood put two new pistons in the 447, re-honed the jugs, cleaned
> out the carbon,
> and declared it good to go...
>
> Excessive piston to cylinder wall clearance was the verdict... had
> over .008 in both
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
2-stroke engines hard and
| relatively lightly propped | Beauford
Hi Beauford/All:
Well............good. At least somebody agrees with my two stroke
philosophy. ;-)
Hope you have gotten you 447 squared away now. Absolutely hate it
when my mechanical stuff does not operate correctly and I can not
figure out why...
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
Message 19
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| Subject: | Getting Ready for TNK Homecoming |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
I took the Kolbra out yesterday for a shake down flight getting ready for
TNK Homecoming. Next thing I knew I was in Leadville, CO.
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/100_4109.JPG
I caught these critters in the open in Oklahoma on the way back home today.
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/100_4145.JPG
They now have a cafe on the airport at Canon City, CO (1V6).
I will have my website updated in a couple of days with some photos that
just can't do the Rocky Mountains justice.
While the rest of you are out flying this weekend, I will catch up on some
Kolbra maintenance.
Fly Safe!
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 909 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Herb...
I pressed a little on this, since, like you, I considered this the obvious
question. And I
still am unsure of the answer...as are the Lockwood guys... They struck me
as honest and
competent.
The consensus seemed to be that the carbon/coke near-seizure sequence which
started this episode likely caused the bulk of this premature wear, but no
mech was willing to
state that conclusively... there were clearly smoothly polished shiny areas
halfway up the pistons
in which the factory machining was worn off and which mic'd .0005 to .006
undersize.
These areas apparently had no direct relationship to the minor scoring
which I inflicted upon the pistons
during my naive attempt to re- break in the rings... it was clear from the
wear patterns that the pistons
were rocking in the bores and there had to be excessive blow-by, even though
I heard no piston "slap" at idle.
I stood there and watched them mic the pistons and jugs, so I know they gave
a fair
assessment of their condition...
At this point, aside from the role of carbon in this, no one is sure why a
130 hour engine
should have worn out a couple of pistons...
The "green dot" pistons restored the piston - to- bore clearance to new
engine specs.
Here we go again...
Beauford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Gayheart" <herbgh@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lockwood's Diagnosis
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb Gayheart <herbgh@juno.com>
>
> Beauford
> Did they offer any reason why you had so much skirt/piston wear in a
> relatively short time? Herb
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:22:11 -0400 "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
> writes:
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford"
>> <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>>
>> Kolbers:
>> For the curious...
>>
>> Lockwood put two new pistons in the 447, re-honed the jugs, cleaned
>> out the carbon,
>> and declared it good to go...
>>
>> Excessive piston to cylinder wall clearance was the verdict... had
>> over .008 in both
>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Getting Ready for TNK Homecoming |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Next thing I knew I was in Leadville, CO.
John W/All:
You are going to have to have your GPS checked for accuracy. That's
quite a long ways off the beaten path for an afternoon flight. Glad
you made it.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
Thanks for all the comments and encouragement. Here are my answers to some of
them:
1. John, I thought about independent fuel systems, since as we all know, a very
large proportion of engine outs are fuel related. I spent a lot of time putting
the fuel system together, and have an electric pump in parallel with the
engine pump. Also, have a good filter and always fill with Mr. Funnel. I decided
to continue with the system I have, since I would have to add cross-feed
capability (another level of complexity) to the two tanks to get the all the fuel
out with a single engine running.
2. Regarding Hirths, I've heard the stories too, but had good luck with the one
Hirth I owned. I forget the model number, but it was the equivalent of the
Rotax 377 with single carb and single point ignition. This was in the 80's.
I flew with it for nearly 10 years and never had any problem that was related
to the engine. I particularly liked the fact that it was designed for maximum
horsepower at about 4500 rpm. Cruise was at about 3700 rpm, and it was quiet
and smooth - much smoother than my 503.
3. Regarding the overlapping props, sometime in the early 90's, John Pitre and
I did some tests with the Paraplane (powered parachute rig). It ran two solo
engines to a centerline set of counter-rotating props with one shaft inside
the other - very nicely designed. We did thrust tests with both engines running,
and various combinations of single engine. Surprisingly enough, there was
very little interaction between the props.
There have been several other designs that used overlapping props, and they worked
OK. With an engine out, the prop will stop, and should have no effect other
than drag. The thrust line of each engine will be 17.5 inches from the CL
of the aircraft. The asymmetrical thrust should easily be within the rudder authority
of the FS. I've got a lot of time in multi-engine aircraft, so am not
worried about the flying aspects of single engine operation.
4. Biggest potential problem I'm concerned with is vibration. It's going to be
a challenge to get the mounting system right.
This is definitely a bit of a gamble to see if I can get the package together.
I'm doing my best to keep it simple. Keep the comments coming - I'm sure there
will be some ideas I've not thought of.
Dave Bigelow
FS2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, HI
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb Gayheart <herbgh@juno.com>
Beauford
The reason that I asked the obvious is that I just rebuilt a 503 with
first over pistons. The old pistons still had the machining marks on the
skirts , yet they measured out of spec. I guess if they get hot enough
they will tend to collapse? Herb
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 23:11:01 -0400 "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford"
> <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Herb...
> I pressed a little on this, since, like you, I considered this the
> obvious
> question. And I
> still am unsure of the answer...as are the Lockwood guys... They
> struck me
> as honest and
> competent.
>
> The consensus seemed to be that the carbon/coke near-seizure
> sequence which
> started this episode likely caused the bulk of this premature wear,
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Lockwood's Diagnosis |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Herb...
I assume so...
I asked them how high a CHT the cast pistons could stand without damage and
the answer
was "way over 400 in a 447".... They went on to say that the piston crowns
tend to deform and cave-in
during extreme CHT overtemps, but they did not specifically address the
skirts.
Regards,
Beauford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Gayheart" <herbgh@juno.com>
> --. I guess if they get hot enough
> they will tend to collapse? >> obvious
>> question.
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
> I think that this project has a very good chance of resulting in an engine
> out since you are trading the very best two-stroke out there for two with
a
> less then stellar record,
Please explain that comment and give facts to prove the statement. Just
curious.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
At 11:56 PM 8/12/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
>
> > I think that this project has a very good chance of resulting in an engine
> > out since you are trading the very best two-stroke out there for two with
>a
> > less then stellar record,
>
> Please explain that comment and give facts to prove the statement. Just
>curious.
My brother has a Hirth, 2-stroke, 2-cylinder, fuel injected. He's had two
engine outs (both resulting in gear leg damage due to landing out in bad
fields), and had lots of problems. One engine out was caused by a bad
crank. They replaced it for "free" but of course he had to repair his
plane, remove the engine and ship it back, wait for weeks for the engine to
be returned, then he had to put the engine back on and do all the necessary
things you do for new engines.
His second engine out was caused by the fuel injection system deciding that
it was no longer going to inject. Repeat all the above except this time
the engine repair wasn't free.
Ok, so he gets a seemingly working engine, and he flys for a month or two,
then one day one mag fails. Again, repeat all the above.
He got it back and got it together and started it up, but it would not
reach full throttle. Very long story short: the computer chip had "lost"
its programming. So he sends it back for an "upgrade." He gets it back,
installs it, and there's no difference. This goes on for a month or so,
back and forth, back and forth, but he finally gets it to run (on the ground).
He takes it up, and while in the pattern, the engine loses power but
doesn't stop... so he puts it back down on the runway. He replaces all
spark plugs and spark plugs wires, and a week later, takes it up in the
pattern and it seems to be okay, but -- and this happened last week -- the
next time he goes to fly, one of the mags has failed again.
The worst Rotax I've ever heard of never had problems like this.
He's now going to sell the Hirth and get a 503. Anyone have a used but
good 503 they want to sell?
-- Robert
P.S. To be fair: When it worked, it was very powerful, easily 20-25%
better performance over a 503, but it simply isn't reliable, and there's no
one nearby that can help diagnose it and repair it.
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