Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 AM - Re: WOODY-Dick (GeoR38@AOL.COM)
2. 04:16 AM - ultrastar down (Edward Steuber)
3. 05:46 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (robert bean)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: WOODY-Dick (DCulver701@aol.com)
5. 08:04 AM - Re: Mk111 questions? (DCulver701@aol.com)
6. 08:53 AM - waiting (robert bean)
7. 10:03 AM - DHC-4 Crash in Canada (Beauford)
8. 10:32 AM - DHC-4 Crash Question (Beauford)
9. 10:34 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Connection (John Hauck)
10. 10:49 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (Ed Chmielewski)
11. 10:59 AM - Re: WOODY-Dick (John Hauck)
12. 11:41 AM - Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (ray anderson)
13. 02:14 PM - Reverse Rotation - Rotax-912 (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
14. 03:12 PM - Re: Reverse Rotation - Rotax-912 (John Hauck)
15. 03:21 PM - Website Update (John Williamson)
16. 04:27 PM - Re: What's Left (James Tripp)
17. 04:28 PM - HURRICANE KATRINA (Bill Vincent)
18. 04:42 PM - Re: HURRICANE KATRINA (John Hauck)
19. 04:44 PM - Re: What's Left (John Hauck)
20. 07:04 PM - Re: WOODY-Dick (woody)
21. 07:41 PM - Re: WOODY-Dick (John Hauck)
22. 08:28 PM - Re: WOODY-Dick (Larry Bourne)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 8/29/2005 8:47:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jdmurr@juno.com writes:
I had an engine out Saturday at 500 feet AGL. It was my fault thought. I
was moving around in my seat and hit both mag switches with my knee. It got real
quiet. Luckily I had a choice of about 5 different places to land and it was
a happy ending.
John Murr - Firestar
cover your switches with upside down paint can covers.....I had the same
problem years ago
George Randolph
firestar driver from The Villages, fla
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
I found out the piston wrist pin bearing that failed is the old style
caged bearing...I can't understand why when it was dissassembled at the overhaul
shop that they were not changed.......
My crank overhauled is about $350 and the center bearing and rods can
be changed....once it gets to Illinois it will take a month before it will be
ready...looks like I won't be flying till spring....already welded up the frame....
Things could be much worse......I could be in deep doo down in New Orleans....
Ed in Western NY
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Matt, looks to me like a computer simulation. -Notice the break
in the action at the fire.
-BB do not archive
On 30, Aug 2005, at 12:44 AM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
> looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
> elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
>
> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>
> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: DCulver701@aol.com
Hi George, wondering where you keep your plane living at the Villages? I
have a winter home in Grand Island, ( Sunlake Estates) about 20 minutes from
you, and am trying to get all my ducks in a row for keeping a plane down there.
Safe flying, Dave Culver
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Mk111 questions? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: DCulver701@aol.com
What are the differences in handling between a plane with flaperons and the
classic,s flaps? Also does anyone have an opinion on the 912 engine offered
with fuel injection versus the twin carbs? I've seen it advertised as older
military 912 engines rebuilt at a certified Rotax repair service. Their $10 k
asking price isn't that far away from a new one, but curious anyway. Also
wondering about the seat cushions offered in the brochure, they don't look to
comfortable, or well made from the picture, but pictures can be deceiving. Tia,
best regards. Dave Culver
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Kolbers, yesterday, after adding a whole .7 local, I pushed
my MkIII back in the shed and covered it figuring the weather
would turn foul overnight. This morning, light fog but clear
skies. After a cup (only one, John) of coffee and perceiving
scant breezes I pulled the tarps back off and fired it up.
The dew point was pretty high so a full warm up was necessary
with this plane to avoid carb ice symptoms.
-A delightful jaunt around the neighborhood. The air had some
light thermals but soft as a cushion due to the humidity.
Engine temp was looking good since my last adjustment so
it looks like I have all the pesky bugs worked out.
That doesn't mean I won't be doing a few more tweaks on it
this winter but right now it sure is a pleasure to pull it out on
the grass and feel (reasonably) confident in a good ride.
-BB, covered back up and waiting for the rain.
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | DHC-4 Crash in Canada |
1.25 IP_LINK_PLUS URI: Dotted-decimal IP address followed by
CGI
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
ASN Accident description 27 AUG 1992 de Havilland Canada DHC-4T Caribou N400NCMatt:
First test flight after an engine conversion...
Home =BB Database
Accident description
Date: 27 AUG 1992
Time: 10:20
Type: de Havilland Canada DHC-4T Caribou
Operator: NewCal Aviation
Registration: N400NC
Msn / C/n: 240
Year built: 1965
Crew: 3 fatalities / 3 on board
Passengers: 0 fatalities / 0 on board
Total: 3 fatalities / 3 on board
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Gimli, MB (Canada)
Phase: Initial climb (ICL)
Nature: Test
Departure airport: Gimli Airport, MB (YGM)
Destination airport: Gimli Airport, MB (YGM)
Narrative:
The aircraft took off for a test flight for a turbine-engine conversion
programme. It climbed steeply, rolled to the right and crashed in a nose-down,
rightwing-low attitude.
Source: (also check out sources used for every accident)
Scramble 160 + Flight International 9-15.9.1992 (p.35) + ICAO Adrep
Summary 6/94 (#79)
[legend] [disclaimer]
copyright =A9 1996-2005 Aviation Safety Network
Message 8
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| Subject: | DHC-4 Crash Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Matt and Kolbers:
Tried to forward a page on this, but doubt it will work on Kolb List...
The Caribou in the crash video was N400NC, a test aircraft for a turbine engine
converstion program. Belonged to New Cal aviation in New Jersey, and had previously
been number 204 in the Kenyan Air Force. This was the second Caribou this
New Cal outfit lost... They ditched another one in the Atlantic in 1984 after
the pilot became lost and ran it out of gas.
The video clip accident happened on an engine test flight at Gimli, MB, (Canada)
August, 92. The P&W R-2000's had been replaced with Pratt PT-6 variants... All
3 aboard perished. Never did learn if they determined the cause.
Beauford
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Connection |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Asking for
| trouble in the long run.
|
| Pat
Hi Pat/All:
Respectfully disagree with the above.
I prefer to plumb my fuel supply from the bottom of the tank. Notably
the lowest point. This insures all moisture and other crap is dumped
into the gascolator to keep it out of the rest of the fuel system.
Plumbing from the top is a normal marine procedure, based on the
normal low mounting position of fuel tanks in boats.
I am not saying plumbing from top is wrong, but I have had excellent
success pulling fuel out the bottom of the tanks and this is the way I
prefer to do it. Old Kolb used to pull from the bottom of plastic
tanks using a very good fitting and neoprene gasket that was a push
fit. We never had problems with this system, i.e., leaks.
This also eliminates leaving fuel in the tanks because of unequal draw
from top mounted systems. Sometimes a couple cups full of fuel could
make the difference from making it to the airstrip or not.
Thinking outloud in Greenwood, IN. Be home to hauck's holler to see
what's left in a couple days.
john h
MKIII and 912ULS with lots of hours on each.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Hi Matt/All,
This is from airliners.net:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2297994/
From the comments (some obviously uninformed), it looks like the
mechanic(s) left an elevator control lock in place. One of the worst videos
I've seen, for sure.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
> looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
> elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
>
> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>
> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| engine out on takeoff Tueday night at about 200 feet
| with trees straight ahead. | Wayne F Wilson
Wayne/Gang:
Glad to hear Woody is still smiling. Sorry to hear about the leg and
airplane. Please pass on to Woody we are pulling for his speedy
recovery and hope to see him in London next month.
john h
MKIII/912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
In 1943 I saw a C54 taking off towing two troop gliders do precisely the same manuever
and crash, burn ( the gliders had cut loose and peeled off) because they
left the elevator gust locks in place. Not a pretty sight up close.
Ed Chmielewski <edchmiel@mindspring.com> wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted by:
"Ed Chmielewski"
Hi Matt/All,
This is from airliners.net:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2297994/
From the comments (some obviously uninformed), it looks like the
mechanic(s) left an elevator control lock in place. One of the worst videos
I've seen, for sure.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle"
Subject: Kolb-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
> looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
> elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
>
> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>
> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Reverse Rotation - Rotax-912 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Fellow 912 Kolb Owners -
At our local airport, I heard a fellow light aircraft owner declare that
rotating the prop on a 912 engine in the reverse direction will RUIN THE
ENGINE. Is this true? (These guys are referred to as "sidewalk
mechanics.")
The 912 Operator's Manual advises not to turn the engine in the reverse
direction, and also states that the engine may be rotated in the reverse
direction up to one full rotation, max. But no dire warning of destroying
your engine if you exceed this.
Is this topic addressed at Eric Tucker's maintenance class?
Just wondering what the real risk is ...
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912UL, Powerfin-70
Cedar Crest, NM
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Reverse Rotation - Rotax-912 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Just wondering what the real risk is ...
|
| Dennis Kirby
Denis K/Gang:
Yes, the topic of reverse rotation damage is discussed. The oil
pump/system of the 912 series engines is sensitive to induced air in
the oil. This is what happens when the prop is rotated in the reverse
direction. The 912 is a tough engine that will operate reliably for
many hours. However, the one factor that will kill the engine very
quickly is oil starvation. It can operate at reduced power without
coolant, should a hose or water pump fail in flight. So, don't shut
down your 912 and risk losing the aircraft and yourself by trying to
save the engine. It will operate for an extended period of time by
pulling back the throttle. My fat MKIII with 912S will fly at 3,000
rpm. Amount of heat generated at 4,000 rpm is no where near what is
produced at normal cruise of 5,000 rpm.
Take care,
john h
MKIII/912S
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
Fellow Kolbers,
I have uploaded a down-sized website about the recent trips in the Kolbra.
Please see the new address in the signature block.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 915 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1/
kolbrapilot2@comcast.net
do not archive
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
John,
We had very little severe weather in this area so I'm sure Miss Pfer is as
you left it except for the dirt and dust that has accumulated.
James Tripp, FS II
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Tank Connection
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Asking for
| trouble in the long run.
|
| Pat
Hi Pat/All:
Respectfully disagree with the above.
I prefer to plumb my fuel supply from the bottom of the tank. Notably
the lowest point. This insures all moisture and other crap is dumped
into the gascolator to keep it out of the rest of the fuel system.
Plumbing from the top is a normal marine procedure, based on the
normal low mounting position of fuel tanks in boats.
I am not saying plumbing from top is wrong, but I have had excellent
success pulling fuel out the bottom of the tanks and this is the way I
prefer to do it. Old Kolb used to pull from the bottom of plastic
tanks using a very good fitting and neoprene gasket that was a push
fit. We never had problems with this system, i.e., leaks.
This also eliminates leaving fuel in the tanks because of unequal draw
from top mounted systems. Sometimes a couple cups full of fuel could
make the difference from making it to the airstrip or not.
Thinking outloud in Greenwood, IN. Be home to hauck's holler to see
what's left in a couple days.
john h
MKIII and 912ULS with lots of hours on each.
Message 17
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| Subject: | HURRICANE KATRINA |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Vincent" <emailbill@chartermi.net>
John Hauck
Good to see that you made it through Katrina....any damage to your plane?
Bill and Anna Vincent
FS2
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: HURRICANE KATRINA |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
plane?
|
| Bill and Anna Vincent
Hi Bill/Gang:
Don't know what condition hauck's holler and Gantt International
Airport are in, but have had no reports of any real bad weather in our
area.
Can't say that there is always a little fear of that old hanger
collapsing under the weight of a fall tree on top of Miss P'fer (P fer
plane).
Hope to be back in Alabama tomorrow late.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| John,
| We had very little severe weather in this area so I'm sure Miss Pfer
is as
| you left it except for the dirt and dust that has accumulated.
|
| James Tripp, FS II
James/Gang:
Thanks, buddy.
Can handle the dust and dirt, even though I washed her for the first
time since preparing for MV, a week before I high tailed it out of
town.
Be ready to do a little flying when I get home. Been a while.
Need my dose of aviating every so often to keep on an even keel.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Once again I have proven the strength of Homer and Denis' design. Due to
medical problems I had grounded myself all summer and used the time to fix
up my Mk3. I reshaped the nose a bit, repainted some areas and created a
proffesional looking interior. Last on the agenda was getting the Jabi
running perfect. I was having trouble with the EGT running hot. I tryed new
gas and before I started digging deeper into the engine I decided to swap
the probes to rule out instrument failure. I use the classic one step at a
time plan to find out what is wrong. Tue. flight was to be a take off turn
around and land probably 10 min tops. After take off I checked the temps and
they were a bit different but the one one side was still very hot so I
narrowed instrumentation out of the equasion. Then it got real quiet. At 200
ft I dropped the nose and checked my options. I could do a 180 death turn
back or land 50 ft. up in a tree. I chose the turn with no real intention of
getting back to the strip. I have had several engine outs over the years and
was not really worried A couple bent tubes a yard of fabric a bit of paint
and I have another story to tell. This was different. When the engine died
it seemed like the controls disconnected. They got real sloppy and would not
obey the master. I got the speed to 50 but still not real authority. Pull up
and flair was an imaginary event. I hit rather hard and when the dust
settled I looked around and took stock of the situation. I was still belted
in but really cramped up with my knees around my ears and my leg hurt. All
extremities moved.Aaallright :) It took a few minutes to weasle my right
hand over to the let side of my body to poke at the belt realease. Finally I
got it off. Now what? I was so cramped in I couldn't move. Somehow I wiggled
out and fell to the ground but my right foot was still stuck under the
pedals some how. About this time I heard someone hunting for me and called
him over. It was difficult convincing him that in my best interest he should
free my foot. After an eternity he finally decided to free it. That was nice
of him but he didn't want to move my body. So there I was lying on the
ground, right hip now moving independantly from my body and my right leg
hanging around in the cockpit. A few more minutes and I convinced him I had
no back injury and that it would be better for me not to be sitting in this
puddle of gas. Finally he agreed and pulled me out. My screams directed the
paramedics to the landing site. I met my daughter at the ambulance and did
my best to put on a happy face. I don't think she believed me but at least
she knew I wasn't going to die and had no horrible injuries.. At the
hospital I was asked to do TV and nespaper interviews. After having gone
through this before I felt it was best to straighten the media out right
away so they would not make up things for a good story. All I asked was to
print the story as I tell it and to keep a positive spin on it to quell
fears in other pilots wives. They did a good job and even took photos and
video from my good side.The rest of the story is just about the six days I
spent as a guest of the Canadian medical system but I am home and that is
behind me now except when I go through airport security..
What now? Andy and I will go out to the hanger when I have the ambition
to do the 75 ft. walk to the hanger. I want to borrow the neighbour kid for
some photos cause Andy can't believe anyone could have fit in or got out of
that space. I will have to wait a few days untill I can walk out there. Next
step is to duct tape the parts back together and try to do a weight and
balance. I can't believe I would have flown it with out it after the Jabi
installation but I can't find it but I can't see me not doing it. The scales
are still in the hanger. The only thing I could think of is that when I did
the W&B I weighed 210. After a summer of working around the house and riding
a bike everywhere I am now trimmed down to 185 or less. Thats 25 lb
diference. Could that be it? I will have to reassemble and weigh to find out
. That loss of control was scary I need to know why. The actual engine out
was not a big worry. Sorry for the long post and I will keep you informed as
the story develops. Thanks to all for the personal emails. I hope to be well
enough to camp in Kentucky at the home comming. If I can't camp is there a
motel nearby?
Dick (Woody)
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Woody/Gang:
Glad you are recovering at home now.
Something to remember when one decides to do a 180 after engine out at
low altitude. 200' is a very low altitude. Hanging on to 50 mph
indicated ain't enough airspeed to do a 180, especially if it is an
agressive steep turn. Stall speed soars as turn and bank increase. I
found that out on my very first engine out, which occurred about 150'
on takeoff, in my Ultrastar. Got into a mush, kept cross checking the
airspeed, aircraft relatively level, but not really flying or
responding to control input. This is why we encourage folks to be
very careful with airspeed and turns at low altitudes. Not enough
time to recover once it is lost.
At altitude it is another story. The airplane seems to recover before
it mushes and stalls. Amazing, but that is the way it is.
The most helpless feeling in the world is when lift and control of the
aircraft are lost at low altitude. A lot of us survive the crash in
Kolb aircraft, while a lot of us die based a lot on what attitude and
speed the aircraft strikes the ground. If there is some brush,
trees, etc., to help break the fall, this lessens the impact.
Just my own personal feelings on your accident. Not saying or trying
to imply what I suggest is what really happened, although is sure
seems a lot like the several I have had. Oh yea, the ground is very
hard.
Hope to see you at the Kolb Homecoming.
john h
MKIII
Titus, AL
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
That was a rough go, Woody, but I'm sure glad it wasn't worse. We'll all be
waiting to hear what you find. Lar. Do
not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: WOODY-Dick
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
>
> Once again I have proven the strength of Homer and Denis' design. Due to
> medical problems I had grounded myself all summer and used the time to fix
> up my Mk3. I reshaped the nose a bit, repainted some areas and
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