Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:23 AM - Re: UL crash video (PATRICK LADD)
2. 04:35 AM - Re: Engine (GeoR38@AOL.COM)
3. 05:38 AM - UL Crash / BRS (Mike Pierzina)
4. 05:47 AM - Re: UL crash video (russ kinne)
5. 06:09 AM - Re: UL crash video (Chuck Stonex)
6. 06:53 AM - Re: UL crash video (Chris Mallory)
7. 06:55 AM - Re: UL crash video (Richard Swiderski)
8. 07:02 AM - Re: UL crash video (bryan green)
9. 07:27 AM - Re: UL crash video (Chuck Stonex)
10. 07:39 AM - Re: UL Crash / BRS (ray anderson)
11. 08:10 AM - Re: Paul Petty (Mitty)
12. 08:44 AM - Re: TNK's homecoming (Mitty)
13. 09:11 AM - Re: UL crash video (PATRICK LADD)
14. 09:14 AM - Re: UL crash video (JIM HEFNER)
15. 10:03 AM - Re: UL crash video (Chuck Stonex)
16. 01:38 PM - Re: UL crash video (russ kinne)
17. 01:45 PM - q (russ kinne)
18. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Mk111 questions? (DCulver701@aol.com)
19. 01:59 PM - Re: Paul Petty (Larry Bourne)
20. 02:31 PM - Re: UL crash video (JIM HEFNER)
21. 02:54 PM - Getting Close (Mike Pierzina)
22. 03:06 PM - Re: Getting Close (Larry Bourne)
23. 03:15 PM - Re: Getting Close (Chuck Stonex)
24. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: UL crash video (Chuck Stonex)
25. 03:38 PM - Fw: Re: UL crash video (ron wehba)
26. 04:15 PM - Re; Getting Close (Mike Pierzina)
27. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: UL crash video (Chuck Stonex)
28. 04:37 PM - Re: Re; Getting Close (Chuck Stonex)
29. 04:49 PM - Re: Re; Getting Close (Rusty)
30. 04:58 PM - Re: Re; Getting Close (Cat36Fly@aol.com)
31. 05:08 PM - Re: Re; Getting Close (Chuck Stonex)
32. 05:46 PM - Re: Re; Getting Close (John Hauck)
33. 06:03 PM - Re: Re; Getting Close (Richard Pike)
34. 06:29 PM - Re Re Getting Close (Mike Pierzina)
35. 07:07 PM - Re: Re Re Getting Close (Chuck Stonex)
36. 07:08 PM - Re: Re Re Getting Close (Chuck Stonex)
37. 07:09 PM - FireFly Getting Around (Jack B. Hart)
38. 07:20 PM - Re: Re Re Getting Close (Rusty)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
what this pilot does when the engine quits.>>
Yes John,
I noticed that. He was not far above the tree tops but it looked as though
there was just about enough room to dive left to the road.
Shows the downside of openair flying. No fuselage to protect you.
He was really unlucky to collect all those imjuries though.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 9/4/2005 7:42:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
richard@bcchapel.org writes:
Anybody familiar with the Randolph method of coverings/paints? Good?Bad?
>
>Thanks
I think they are great....George Randolph.....naw...just teasin....no relation
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hey Ray / Guys,
How was a BRS gonna save his bacon......Maybe TANGLE in the trees
???? It looked TOO LOW
to do the job.... He needed a rocket assist Ejection seat.........I wonder how
much weight that would add to my plane.
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
Another example of where a BRS Ballistic might have spared him a lot of misery.
Like the American Express Card add says, "Never leave home without it".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down...
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Some things to be learned here --
1 NO shoulder belts!
2 It would have been so easy to stay over the nearby road, 'just in
case'.
Don't they teach this any more?
On Sep 4, 2005, at 9:30 PM, Mike Schnabel wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com>
>
> Received this from EAA 104 Ultralight member, thought it was worth
> passing along...
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
> Authentication-Results: mta105.mail.mud.yahoo.com
> from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
> by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
> by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
> To: ultralightchapter104@yahoogroups.com
> From: trimspeed <trimspeed@yahoo.com>
> List-Id: <ultralightchapter104.yahoogroups.com>
> List-Unsubscribe:
> <mailto:ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [ultralightchapter104] UL crash video
>
> --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
>
> Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
> to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
> seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
> happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
> the emergency procedures.
>
> Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
>
> -Gary
>
> --- beartooth37129 <barryglenn@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
>> so....sorry for
>> the repeat. Remember...."ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND".
>>
>>
>> http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
>>
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
>
>
> <tt>
> Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
>
> to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
>
> seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
>
> happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
>
> the emergency procedures.
>
>
> Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
>
>
> -Gary
>
>
> --- beartooth37129 barryglenn@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
>
> so....sorry for
>
> the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND.
>
>
> http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
>
>
> <tt>Visit your group "ultralightchapter104" on the web.
> </tt>
> <tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> </tt>
>
>
> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
>
>
> --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d--
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
BRS would not of fully deployed to make any difference. I would guess he was
under 500 ft. He forgot to fly the plane. That was his only option. I do
like to thoughts about shoulder harness and full fuselage though.
Chuck S
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
Another example of where a BRS Ballistic might have spared him a lot of
misery. Like the American Express Card add says, "Never leave home without
it".
Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel
Received this from EAA 104 Ultralight member, thought it was worth passing
along...
Note: forwarded message attached.
Authentication-Results: mta105.mail.mud.yahoo.com
from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
From: trimspeed
List-Id:
List-Unsubscribe:
Subject: Re: [ultralightchapter104] UL crash video
--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
the emergency procedures.
Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
-Gary
--- beartooth37129 wrote:
> I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
> so....sorry for
> the repeat. Remember...."ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND".
>
>
> http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
>
>
> Barry
>
>
>
--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
the emergency procedures.
Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
-Gary
--- beartooth37129 barryglenn@comcast.net wrote:
I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
so....sorry for
the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND.
http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
Barry
Visit your group "ultralightchapter104" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d--
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" <wcm@tampabay.rr.com>
The BRS may not have fully deployed in this case, however ther are 28
documented cases where pilots have been saved by a BRS at 100 ft. or less,
the lowest being only 25 ft. and all of them faired better than this poor
guy. See: http://www.brsparachutes.com/PI_saves.mgi
for complete list.
Chris M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL crash video
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
>
> BRS would not of fully deployed to make any difference. I would guess he
> was
> under 500 ft. He forgot to fly the plane. That was his only option. I do
> like to thoughts about shoulder harness and full fuselage though.
> Chuck S
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>
> Another example of where a BRS Ballistic might have spared him a lot of
> misery. Like the American Express Card add says, "Never leave home without
> it".
>
>
> Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel
>
> Received this from EAA 104 Ultralight member, thought it was worth passing
> along...
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
> Authentication-Results: mta105.mail.mud.yahoo.com
> from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
> by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
> by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
> To: ultralightchapter104@yahoogroups.com
> From: trimspeed
> List-Id:
> List-Unsubscribe:
> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [ultralightchapter104] UL crash video
>
> --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
>
> Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
> to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
> seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
> happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
> the emergency procedures.
>
> Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
>
> -Gary
>
> --- beartooth37129 wrote:
>
> > I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
> > so....sorry for
> > the repeat. Remember...."ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND".
> >
> >
> > http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
> >
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
>
>
> Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
>
> to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
>
> seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
>
> happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
>
> the emergency procedures.
>
>
> Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
>
>
> -Gary
>
>
> --- beartooth37129 barryglenn@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
>
> so....sorry for
>
> the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND.
>
>
> http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> Visit your group "ultralightchapter104" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d--
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
When I saw the video & watched him fly so low over congested & populated
area I said to myself, this guy is trouble waiting to happen. We all have
seen many fellow pilots fly like their plane is never going to have a
problem. I personally refuse to fly into a strip that requires me to fly
low, over houses or even trees, on take off. If there is not a place to
abort at every moment up to the point I have enough altitude to do a 180
return, then I refuse to operate out of that field. -Richard Swiderski
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bourne
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL crash video
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I dunno........?? I've got a few hours in a Quicksilver 2 seater, and it
was tough to get used to[Richard Swiderski] landing procedure. Coming in
on final at 300 ft,
the instructor told me (and showed me) to wait till the numbers were between
my feet, chop the throttle, point the nose down and keep the Hall airspeed
indicator at 45 mph (if I remember right) and flare at the very last second.
It was a little (??) hair raising at 1st, and we came down very
steeply.......I'd guess at a 45 deg angle, and we'd touch down not much past
the numbers. Not much of a glide ratio there.
I think you and John are right, tho'. Looks like he forgot to fly the
plane, for all the time he had TO fly it.
Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL crash video
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
>
> Looked like to me that he forgot to fly the plane. Looked like a Quick
> Silver which as I understand it has a good glide ratio.
>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> | the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND.
>
> Mike S/Gang:
>
> Take particular note what this pilot does when the engine quits. He
> has just passed over a long straight dirt/gravel road. Instead of
> banking left and pushing the stick forward, he immediately tries to
> make the UL levitate by pulling all the way back on the control stick.
> No wonder it went down so fast. He stalled the aircraft before it
> went into the trees.
>
> I may be speaking out of turn as I have zero experience in any other
> UL except Kolbs and Burt Howland's Honeybee.
>
> A good piece of teaching video!!!
>
> john h
> MKIII
>
> PS: This one ought to be archived so others can refresh themselves
> prior to engine failure.
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
I think the point that is getting missed here is it would have been so
easy to stay over the runway as long as possible. IMHO
Bryan Green Elgin SC
russ kinne wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
>Some things to be learned here --
>1 NO shoulder belts!
>2 It would have been so easy to stay over the nearby road, 'just in
>case'.
> Don't they teach this any more?
>
>On Sep 4, 2005, at 9:30 PM, Mike Schnabel wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Received this from EAA 104 Ultralight member, thought it was worth
>>passing along...
>>
>>Note: forwarded message attached.
>>
>>Authentication-Results: mta105.mail.mud.yahoo.com
>> from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
>> by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
>> by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
>>To: ultralightchapter104@yahoogroups.com
>>From: trimspeed <trimspeed@yahoo.com>
>>List-Id: <ultralightchapter104.yahoogroups.com>
>>List-Unsubscribe:
>><mailto:ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: [ultralightchapter104] UL crash video
>>
>>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
>>
>>Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
>>to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
>>seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
>>happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
>>the emergency procedures.
>>
>>Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
>>
>>-Gary
>>
>>--- beartooth37129 <barryglenn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
>>>so....sorry for
>>>the repeat. Remember...."ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND".
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
>>>
>>>
>>>Barry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
>>
>>
>><tt>
>>Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
>>
>>to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
>>
>>seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
>>
>>happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
>>
>>the emergency procedures.
>>
>>
>>Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
>>
>>
>>-Gary
>>
>>
>>--- beartooth37129 barryglenn@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
>>
>> so....sorry for
>>
>> the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND.
>>
>>
>> http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
>>
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>></tt>
>>
>>
>><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
>>
>>
>> <tt>Visit your group "ultralightchapter104" on the web.
>></tt>
>> <tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>></tt>
>>
>>
>><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
>>
>>
>>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d--
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
I agree. He set himself up to fail.
--> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
I think the point that is getting missed here is it would have been so
easy to stay over the runway as long as possible. IMHO
Bryan Green Elgin SC
russ kinne wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
>Some things to be learned here --
>1 NO shoulder belts!
>2 It would have been so easy to stay over the nearby road, 'just in
>case'.
> Don't they teach this any more?
>
>On Sep 4, 2005, at 9:30 PM, Mike Schnabel wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Received this from EAA 104 Ultralight member, thought it was worth
>>passing along...
>>
>>Note: forwarded message attached.
>>
>>Authentication-Results: mta105.mail.mud.yahoo.com
>> from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
>> by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
>> by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2005 22:20:37 -0000
>>To: ultralightchapter104@yahoogroups.com
>>From: trimspeed <trimspeed@yahoo.com>
>>List-Id: <ultralightchapter104.yahoogroups.com>
>>List-Unsubscribe:
>><mailto:ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: [ultralightchapter104] UL crash video
>>
>>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
>>
>>Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
>>to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
>>seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
>>happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
>>the emergency procedures.
>>
>>Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
>>
>>-Gary
>>
>>--- beartooth37129 <barryglenn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
>>>so....sorry for
>>>the repeat. Remember...."ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND".
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
>>>
>>>
>>>Barry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d
>>
>>
>><tt>
>>Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage
>>
>>to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five
>>
>>seconds after an engine failure to realize what has
>>
>>happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform
>>
>>the emergency procedures.
>>
>>
>>Powerful...thanks for sending the link.
>>
>>
>>-Gary
>>
>>
>>--- beartooth37129 barryglenn@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If
>>
>> so....sorry for
>>
>> the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND.
>>
>>
>> http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
>>
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>></tt>
>>
>>
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: UL Crash / BRS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
Mike,
Records show ultralight saves with a BRS as low as 25 ft. The video shows more
than ample altitude for a complete deployment. In most properly placed chutes,
the rocket deploys upward, with instant stoppage of downward travel. Whether
over bare land or trees, it's better to descent vertically than fly head on into
anything, without a lot of strong fuselage in front.
Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina
Hey Ray / Guys,
How was a BRS gonna save his bacon......Maybe TANGLE in the trees ???? It looked
TOO LOW
to do the job.... He needed a rocket assist Ejection seat.........I wonder how
much weight that would add to my plane.
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson
Another example of where a BRS Ballistic might have spared him a lot of misery.
Like the American Express Card add says, "Never leave home without it".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down...
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mitty <benny_bee_01@yahoo.com>
Hey Lar,
Talked with Paul few days ago.He's fine.Dixie still
there..No damage fom the storm.We are here @ jackson
ms ok too.
Mitty
--- Larry Bourne <biglar@gogittum.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne"
> <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Paul, are you out there ?? How did the storm affect
> you ?? Hope you and Miss Dixie are OK.
> Lar. Do not Archive.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Building Kolb Mk III
> N78LB Vamoose
> www.gogittum.com
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: TNK's homecoming |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mitty <benny_bee_01@yahoo.com>
Hey Rick,
I live in jackson,MS and i have to drive north 120
miles to buy me a drum of gas.Problem is diesel fuel
is easily avaliable while gasoline is not.It's a mess
but now with power going back up to the gas stations i
think it would be much easier...
Mitty
--- Rick Pearce <rap@isp.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rick Pearce"
> <rap@isp.com>
>
> I'm planning on going if we can get gas. Since I
> will be driving I don't want to get in gas lines. I
> remember what it was like during the Arab embargo.
> Rick Pearce 907 27000rd Parsons KS Kolb mark3
> amphibious
> do not archive
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
The BRS may not have fully deployed in this case>>
Hi ,
I have just had a look at the BRS site. Why are the planes in their
demonstration page all Kolbs? Huh?
Cheers
Pat
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JIM HEFNER" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Guys, I agree with your comments, but as I watched this video I could hear engine
hesitation starting at a point where he could have easily turned to his left
and put it down on a couple of gravel roads running off to his left if he was
paying attention to the engine sound. If I hear anything unusual in the sound
of my engine, which has only happened once, I'm immediately looking for a place
to park it in case it quits, but this guy seemed to be oblivious to what
was happening until it quit and then he was clueless what to do, but by then he
was over too many trees to do anything about it most likely. Banking hard left
at that point would have caused him to loose altitude even quicker. Usually
2 cycles will give you a few seconds of warning with a hesitation, especially
if it is fuel related, which this looked and sounded like to me, based on the
couple engine hesitations I heard in the engine sound on the video.
Really unfortunate, but as you said, a good piece of teaching video. As was also
eluded to, if I were flying regularly from that strip, I would have made a
habit of doing a left turn over those roads short of the woods, just in case of
an engine out during climbout. As was noted, altitude is our friend and paying
attention is also our friend. Flying over friendly terrain that gives you
options until you get high enough to have more options is a smart way to fly
with 2 cycles in my opinion.
Regarding the BRS notion, I think he was hitting tree tops so quick after the engine
quit, plus his panic reaction to the engine out, freezing his reactions,
he probably would not have had time to pull the BRS lever in time to help much.
If he could have pulled it, it would likely gotten tangled in the trees and
at least kept him from hitting the ground so hard, but none of that should have
had to happen in this case in my opinion if he were paying attention to how
his engine was sounding and if he flew a smart departure pattern with a left
turn before the woods until he got high. These are both good lessons learned
from this video in my opinion.
I'm fortunate to live in the desert so there aren't any wooded areas like that,
but there is plenty of cactus to make for an unpleasant landing....
Fly smart by listening closely to your engine sound and make sure you have options
during climbout, either one, would have saved this guy a lot of pain and suffering.
My 2 cents worth only.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jim Hefner
Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
Tucson, AZ
Time: 06:53:29 PM PST US
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com<mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com>>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL crash video
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com<mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com>>
|
|
| http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv<http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv>
|
|
| Barry
Mike S/Gang:
Take particular note what this pilot does when the engine quits. He
has just passed over a long straight dirt/gravel road. Instead of
banking left and pushing the stick forward, he immediately tries to
make the UL levitate by pulling all the way back on the control stick.
No wonder it went down so fast. He stalled the aircraft before it
went into the trees.
I may be speaking out of turn as I have zero experience in any other
UL except Kolbs and Burt Howland's Honeybee.
A good piece of teaching video!!!
john h
MKIII
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Unfortunately we do not always do the same thing everytime. How many time
have we done something "just this once" or said "I don't usually do it this
way"? Maybe it was a test flight or demo flight? We can analyze this all
day. That part does not matter. What really matters was full up elevator
with no power and a missed safe landing opprotunity. All this looked like it
followed a sudden inflex of fear and panic. (Notice his left handed grip on
the bar beside him?) I have done construction for years and one thing I know
very well from missed and poorly set ladders and scaffles..... GRAVITY
SUCKS!!
Kinda works that way with aircraft too.
Would'a, could'a, should'a, didn't.
I have enough trouble convincing my girlfriend that airplanes don't crash.
Pilots crash airplanes. Pilot error stuff. Other that poorly installed wings
and stuff which in our case the pilot probably did anyhow.
LEBTF
Chuck S
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JIM HEFNER" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Guys, I agree with your comments, but as I watched this video I could hear
engine hesitation starting at a point where he could have easily turned to
his left and put it down on a couple of gravel roads running off to his left
if he was paying attention to the engine sound. If I hear anything unusual
in the sound of my engine, which has only happened once, I'm immediately
looking for a place to park it in case it quits, but this guy seemed to be
oblivious to what was happening until it quit and then he was clueless what
to do, but by then he was over too many trees to do anything about it most
likely. Banking hard left at that point would have caused him to loose
altitude even quicker. Usually 2 cycles will give you a few seconds of
warning with a hesitation, especially if it is fuel related, which this
looked and sounded like to me, based on the couple engine hesitations I
heard in the engine sound on the video.
Really unfortunate, but as you said, a good piece of teaching video. As was
also eluded to, if I were flying regularly from that strip, I would have
made a habit of doing a left turn over those roads short of the woods, just
in case of an engine out during climbout. As was noted, altitude is our
friend and paying attention is also our friend. Flying over friendly
terrain that gives you options until you get high enough to have more
options is a smart way to fly with 2 cycles in my opinion.
Regarding the BRS notion, I think he was hitting tree tops so quick after
the engine quit, plus his panic reaction to the engine out, freezing his
reactions, he probably would not have had time to pull the BRS lever in time
to help much. If he could have pulled it, it would likely gotten tangled in
the trees and at least kept him from hitting the ground so hard, but none of
that should have had to happen in this case in my opinion if he were paying
attention to how his engine was sounding and if he flew a smart departure
pattern with a left turn before the woods until he got high. These are both
good lessons learned from this video in my opinion.
I'm fortunate to live in the desert so there aren't any wooded areas like
that, but there is plenty of cactus to make for an unpleasant landing....
Fly smart by listening closely to your engine sound and make sure you have
options during climbout, either one, would have saved this guy a lot of pain
and suffering.
My 2 cents worth only.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jim Hefner
Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
Tucson, AZ
Time: 06:53:29 PM PST US
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com<mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com>>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL crash video
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
<jhauck@elmore.rr.com<mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com>>
|
|
|
http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv<http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv>
|
|
| Barry
Mike S/Gang:
Take particular note what this pilot does when the engine quits. He
has just passed over a long straight dirt/gravel road. Instead of
banking left and pushing the stick forward, he immediately tries to
make the UL levitate by pulling all the way back on the control stick.
No wonder it went down so fast. He stalled the aircraft before it
went into the trees.
I may be speaking out of turn as I have zero experience in any other
UL except Kolbs and Burt Howland's Honeybee.
A good piece of teaching video!!!
john h
MKIII
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Pat
I must be looking at a different BRS site -- I see 177 'saves' but only
3-4 are Kolbs. No pix. With my confuser skills I prolly just missed it.
Is this www.BRSparachute.com?
The chute would have helped almost no matter how late deployed. Would
stop FORWARD motion even if not time to stop downwards much. And
tangling in treetops would help too, even un-deployed. But this is one
poorly trained pilot!! -- he did most everything wrong. But lived, at
least.
I heard of a Navy pilot who had a main gear collapse during the
catapult launch on a carrier -- (how's that for an attention-getter???)
and was quick enough to pull the ejection handle so he was shot out of
the aircraft horizontally -- went into the water about 50 yd from the
side of the carrier & was promptly fished out. Then loudly demanded
another airplane because the first one quit on him !!
Quite an excellent performance -- he had only 1 second or so to pull
the magic handle. Now, that's a pilot --
Hope you can straighten out the W&B problems with your bird -- I'm sure
you know NEVER to take off with any kind of aft CG -- Egad, man but
you've been thru the wringer on this one; certainly hope you get
everything righted soon . Also was disappointed to read the account of
the UK importer being so stinky. No one needs that.
May the world treat you well, and often --
Russ
On Sep 5, 2005, at 12:11 PM, PATRICK LADD wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD"
> <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>
> The BRS may not have fully deployed in this case>>
>
> Hi ,
> I have just had a look at the BRS site. Why are the planes in their
> demonstration page all Kolbs? Huh?
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
My apologies to the list -- I thought I was sending only to Pat. Mea
culpa
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Mk111 questions? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: DCulver701@aol.com
Thanks Rick to your response to my question on Flaps vs flaperons. Best
regards, Dave Culver
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
That's good news. Thanks. Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitty" <benny_bee_01@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Paul Petty
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mitty <benny_bee_01@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey Lar,
> Talked with Paul few days ago.He's fine.Dixie still
> there..No damage fom the storm.We are here @ jackson
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JIM HEFNER" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Chuck, that's what lessons learned are all about. I guess everyone can choose
to learn from this unfortunate situation or not. Avoiding this potential situation
is the approach I prefer and have reconfirmed from this situation... others
may prefer pulling their BRS at the last second. Looking at that video a
few times, I think if he hadn't pulled full up elevator when the engine quit,
he was most likely still going down into the trees unless Quicksilvers glide a
whole lot better than I think they do with no power... a pretty high drag plane...
maybe he would have been luckier with how he went down through the trees,
but either way it was going to be much worse than keeping a landing option open,
which is part of basic pilot training.
You are right about GRAVITY, so making smart choices consistently can payoff big
when you least expect it.
Jim Hefner
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com<mailto:cstonex@msn.com?subjectRe: UL crash video&replyto200509051702.j85H2eTv029797@mail.matronics.com>>
Unfortunately we do not always do the same thing everytime. How many time
have we done something "just this once" or said "I don't usually do it this
way"? Maybe it was a test flight or demo flight? We can analyze this all
day. That part does not matter. What really matters was full up elevator
with no power and a missed safe landing opprotunity. All this looked like it
followed a sudden inflex of fear and panic. (Notice his left handed grip on
the bar beside him?) I have done construction for years and one thing I know
very well from missed and poorly set ladders and scaffles..... GRAVITY
SUCKS!!
Kinda works that way with aircraft too.
Would'a, could'a, should'a, didn't.
I have enough trouble convincing my girlfriend that airplanes don't crash.
Pilots crash airplanes. Pilot error stuff. Other that poorly installed wings
and stuff which in our case the pilot probably did anyhow.
LEBTF
Chuck S
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hey Guys,
Well, I've got my Tailwheel endorsement (Piper PA - 12) at Stanton
Field
I was signed "off" on my BFR , good for another two years.
Went down and got my Medical renewed....good for another two years...
I'm trying to get some time in a T-bird ( 5 hrs ) and I've got a Flight Advisor
.....Both are required by the insurance
before they'll cover me.....
Yah hear that Big Lar......I'm very close to BEATING YOU IN THE AIR......So don't
go messin with yer plane...
Just have another Cold One , and sit in the shade.....It's TOO HOT to be tinkering
with it right now......SLEEP,sleep.
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN FSII /
N381PM
Do Not Archive <----Some of you guys forgetting to add this......or did you
want jibberish archived
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down...
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Gots bad news for ya, Mike. Ya better hustle. I fired Vamoose up Saturday,
and pinpointed the oil leak - again. Just now finished removing the
redrive, and will put a new seal in it tomorrow. I'm also going to lower
the oil pressure to stock settings, tho' it wasn't a factor originally.
(the original input shaft didn't leak. It was only after it broke, and I
upgraded to the heavier shaft that all this started) Then, upgrade my
wiring diagram and call the inspector. Wish it'd cool off here, tho'. 45
minutes out there, and I'm soaked and under cover in the house.
Pheee-eeeewww........... ! ! ! BigLar in Furnace Springs.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Getting Close
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
> Well, I've got my Tailwheel endorsement (Piper PA - 12) at
> Stanton Field
> I was signed "off" on my BFR , good for another two years.
> Went down and got my Medical renewed....good for another two years...
>
> I'm trying to get some time in a T-bird ( 5 hrs ) and I've got a Flight
> Advisor .....Both are required by the insurance
> before they'll cover me.....
>
> Yah hear that Big Lar......I'm very close to BEATING YOU IN THE
> AIR......So don't go messin with yer plane...
> Just have another Cold One , and sit in the shade.....It's TOO HOT to be
> tinkering with it right now......SLEEP,sleep.
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN
> FSII / N381PM
>
>
> Do Not Archive <----Some of you guys forgetting to add this......or did
> you want jibberish archived
>
>
> My Web Site:
> http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
>
>
> Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way
> down...
>
>
>
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Mike I'm curious? Why are you doing all of the to fly a Firestar?? I'm not
so sure it is all necessary.
Chuck
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hey Guys,
Well, I've got my Tailwheel endorsement (Piper PA - 12) at
Stanton Field
I was signed "off" on my BFR , good for another two years.
Went down and got my Medical renewed....good for another two years...
I'm trying to get some time in a T-bird ( 5 hrs ) and I've got a Flight
Advisor .....Both are required by the insurance
before they'll cover me.....
Yah hear that Big Lar......I'm very close to BEATING YOU IN THE
AIR......So don't go messin with yer plane...
Just have another Cold One , and sit in the shade.....It's TOO HOT to be
tinkering with it right now......SLEEP,sleep.
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
FSII / N381PM
Do Not Archive <----Some of you guys forgetting to add this......or did
you want jibberish archived
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way
down...
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Point well taken !! Thanks Jim. I'm still learning too.
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JIM HEFNER" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Chuck, that's what lessons learned are all about. I guess everyone can
choose to learn from this unfortunate situation or not. Avoiding this
potential situation is the approach I prefer and have reconfirmed from this
situation... others may prefer pulling their BRS at the last second.
Looking at that video a few times, I think if he hadn't pulled full up
elevator when the engine quit, he was most likely still going down into the
trees unless Quicksilvers glide a whole lot better than I think they do with
no power... a pretty high drag plane... maybe he would have been luckier
with how he went down through the trees, but either way it was going to be
much worse than keeping a landing option open, which is part of basic pilot
training.
You are right about GRAVITY, so making smart choices consistently can payoff
big when you least expect it.
Jim Hefner
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex"
<cstonex@msn.com<mailto:cstonex@msn.com?subjectRe: UL crash
video&replyto200509051702.j85H2eTv029797@mail.matronics.com>>
Unfortunately we do not always do the same thing everytime. How many time
have we done something "just this once" or said "I don't usually do it this
way"? Maybe it was a test flight or demo flight? We can analyze this all
day. That part does not matter. What really matters was full up elevator
with no power and a missed safe landing opprotunity. All this looked like it
followed a sudden inflex of fear and panic. (Notice his left handed grip on
the bar beside him?) I have done construction for years and one thing I know
very well from missed and poorly set ladders and scaffles..... GRAVITY
SUCKS!!
Kinda works that way with aircraft too.
Would'a, could'a, should'a, didn't.
I have enough trouble convincing my girlfriend that airplanes don't crash.
Pilots crash airplanes. Pilot error stuff. Other that poorly installed wings
and stuff which in our case the pilot probably did anyhow.
LEBTF
Chuck S
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@pegasusbb.com>
about 5 years ago,,was getting ready to do the first flight in my
minimax,and was given the chance to do a pattern in a quick,took off great,
made two rounds and was on a downwind" did not touch anything"and it just
quit,pushed forward stick lots of it!!!,and landed about 30 feet from the
edge of the runway,,we pushed it to the hanger ,,and after talking bout it
pulled it through and it started right up. any way the moral of this is be
ready at all times.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: UL crash video
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
>
> Point well taken !! Thanks Jim. I'm still learning too.
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JIM HEFNER" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
>
> Chuck, that's what lessons learned are all about. I guess everyone can
> choose to learn from this unfortunate situation or not. Avoiding this
> potential situation is the approach I prefer and have reconfirmed from
> this
> situation... others may prefer pulling their BRS at the last second.
> Looking at that video a few times, I think if he hadn't pulled full up
> elevator when the engine quit, he was most likely still going down into
> the
> trees unless Quicksilvers glide a whole lot better than I think they do
> with
> no power... a pretty high drag plane... maybe he would have been luckier
> with how he went down through the trees, but either way it was going to be
> much worse than keeping a landing option open, which is part of basic
> pilot
> training.
>
> You are right about GRAVITY, so making smart choices consistently can
> payoff
> big when you least expect it.
> Jim Hefner
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex"
> <cstonex@msn.com<mailto:cstonex@msn.com?subjectRe: UL crash
> video&replyto200509051702.j85H2eTv029797@mail.matronics.com>>
>
> Unfortunately we do not always do the same thing everytime. How many time
> have we done something "just this once" or said "I don't usually do it
> this
> way"? Maybe it was a test flight or demo flight? We can analyze this all
> day. That part does not matter. What really matters was full up elevator
> with no power and a missed safe landing opprotunity. All this looked like
> it
> followed a sudden inflex of fear and panic. (Notice his left handed grip
> on
> the bar beside him?) I have done construction for years and one thing I
> know
> very well from missed and poorly set ladders and scaffles..... GRAVITY
> SUCKS!!
> Kinda works that way with aircraft too.
> Would'a, could'a, should'a, didn't.
>
> I have enough trouble convincing my girlfriend that airplanes don't crash.
> Pilots crash airplanes. Pilot error stuff. Other that poorly installed
> wings
> and stuff which in our case the pilot probably did anyhow.
>
> LEBTF
> Chuck S
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re; Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mike I'm curious? Why are you doing all of the to fly a Firestar?? I'm not
so sure it is all necessary.
Chuck
What's not to understand..... It's an Experimental Firestar II , not an ultralight....
( N381PM )
I need a current Pilot Cert and Medical
and I need insurance.............insurance wants : Tailwheel endoresment , an
EAA Flight Advisor and 5 hrs in a "like"
Aircraft.....
The Transponder is just so I can fly from a local field , I'm sitting under a
dam class B wedding cake...
with a transponder on my plane the FAA guy approved me to fly my "40" from under
the class B ring , a two mile
wide corridor North..... to my practice area which is out of the Mode C ring
That will only help me save GAS driving that far......already my transponder will
be paying for it's self....
Anybody else see that I'm doing TOO MUCH to get this thing in the air?......I'm
just trying to be LEGAL
I hear about plenty of people flying FAT UL's and getting away with it......I
don't want to be checking my 6 always.
And when my 40 hrs are flown of I'll be adding a ELT ( 2 seater )
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
Do not archive
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down...
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Will somebody please post the video again? Also when and where did this
happen? My daughter said there was an ultralight crash in Michigan recently.
Thanks
LEBTF
Chuck
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Point well taken !! Thanks Jim. I'm still learning too.
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JIM HEFNER" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Chuck, that's what lessons learned are all about. I guess everyone can
choose to learn from this unfortunate situation or not. Avoiding this
potential situation is the approach I prefer and have reconfirmed from this
situation... others may prefer pulling their BRS at the last second.
Looking at that video a few times, I think if he hadn't pulled full up
elevator when the engine quit, he was most likely still going down into the
trees unless Quicksilvers glide a whole lot better than I think they do with
no power... a pretty high drag plane... maybe he would have been luckier
with how he went down through the trees, but either way it was going to be
much worse than keeping a landing option open, which is part of basic pilot
training.
You are right about GRAVITY, so making smart choices consistently can payoff
big when you least expect it.
Jim Hefner
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex"
<cstonex@msn.com<mailto:cstonex@msn.com?subjectRe: UL crash
video&replyto200509051702.j85H2eTv029797@mail.matronics.com>>
Unfortunately we do not always do the same thing everytime. How many time
have we done something "just this once" or said "I don't usually do it this
way"? Maybe it was a test flight or demo flight? We can analyze this all
day. That part does not matter. What really matters was full up elevator
with no power and a missed safe landing opprotunity. All this looked like it
followed a sudden inflex of fear and panic. (Notice his left handed grip on
the bar beside him?) I have done construction for years and one thing I know
very well from missed and poorly set ladders and scaffles..... GRAVITY
SUCKS!!
Kinda works that way with aircraft too.
Would'a, could'a, should'a, didn't.
I have enough trouble convincing my girlfriend that airplanes don't crash.
Pilots crash airplanes. Pilot error stuff. Other that poorly installed wings
and stuff which in our case the pilot probably did anyhow.
LEBTF
Chuck S
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re; Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Mike you can fly it on a BFI. and with no controls in the back, you may not
need that. That is why I am also trying to get a 2 seater. Light Sport. You
do not need a certified pilots license from what I understand. That is the
beauty of Kitplanes. Maybe the guys at Kolb or youir local Sportplane club
can help you understand the difference.
Chuck
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mike I'm curious? Why are you doing all of the to fly a Firestar?? I'm not
so sure it is all necessary.
Chuck
What's not to understand..... It's an Experimental Firestar II , not an
ultralight.... ( N381PM )
I need a current Pilot Cert and Medical
and I need insurance.............insurance wants : Tailwheel endoresment ,
an EAA Flight Advisor and 5 hrs in a "like"
Aircraft.....
The Transponder is just so I can fly from a local field , I'm sitting
under a dam class B wedding cake...
with a transponder on my plane the FAA guy approved me to fly my "40" from
under the class B ring , a two mile
wide corridor North..... to my practice area which is out of the Mode C ring
That will only help me save GAS driving that far......already my
transponder will be paying for it's self....
Anybody else see that I'm doing TOO MUCH to get this thing in the
air?......I'm just trying to be LEGAL
I hear about plenty of people flying FAT UL's and getting away with
it......I don't want to be checking my 6 always.
And when my 40 hrs are flown of I'll be adding a ELT ( 2 seater )
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
Do not archive
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way
down...
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re; Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Anybody else see that I'm doing TOO MUCH to get this thing in the
air?......I'm just trying to be LEGAL I hear about plenty of people flying
FAT UL's and getting away with it......I don't want to be checking my 6
always.
-----------------
(RD) Sounds like you're doing it EXACTLY right to me sir. My compliments
on your approach.
Cheers,
Rusty (RV-3 sold, rotary SS project shifting into high gear)
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Re; Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Cat36Fly@aol.com
Mike;
I don't think your doing too much as I am doing the same thing on my
"Experimental Extra". VHF,Xponder,ELT, and a VFR panel. Flying here in Delaware
I
have BWI ,DC,Philly, Dover AFB ,McGuire AFB and others very close by. So to go
anywhere I am flirting with controlled airspace.
Larry
N615RT
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re; Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Like I said, I may be wrong, but I do not think all of that is necessary to
fly Light Sport or heavy Ultralight.
Chuck
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Anybody else see that I'm doing TOO MUCH to get this thing in the
air?......I'm just trying to be LEGAL I hear about plenty of people flying
FAT UL's and getting away with it......I don't want to be checking my 6
always.
-----------------
(RD) Sounds like you're doing it EXACTLY right to me sir. My compliments
on your approach.
Cheers,
Rusty (RV-3 sold, rotary SS project shifting into high gear)
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Re; Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
necessary to
| fly Light Sport or heavy Ultralight.
| Chuck
Chuck S/All:
Did you get your info from the FAR's?
john h
MKIII
PS: Makes research much easier if we stick to the subject and use "DO
NOT ARCHIVE" if not worthy of future reference.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re; Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Not everybody is totally enamored of Light Sport or heavy Ultralight.
Some of us like Experimental, with all the privileges and responsibilities
it entails.
Therefore, we do whatever is necessary, and we fly when and where we please.
Day, night, VFR, IFR, xponder, whatever it takes to do what we want.
Maybe next year my blood pressure will be too high, and I will skip my
physical,
fall back to Light Sport, and be glad it's there.
But for right now, all the bells and whistles and hoop-jumping-through
works for me.
And apparently for Rusty too.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 07:08 PM 9/5/05 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
>
>Like I said, I may be wrong, but I do not think all of that is necessary to
>fly Light Sport or heavy Ultralight.
>Chuck
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
> Anybody else see that I'm doing TOO MUCH to get this thing in the
>air?......I'm just trying to be LEGAL I hear about plenty of people flying
>FAT UL's and getting away with it......I don't want to be checking my 6
>always.
>-----------------
>
>
>(RD) Sounds like you're doing it EXACTLY right to me sir. My compliments
>on your approach.
>
>Cheers,
>Rusty (RV-3 sold, rotary SS project shifting into high gear)
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re Re Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
-> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Like I said, I may be wrong, but I do not think all of that is necessary to
fly Light Sport or heavy Ultralight.
Chuck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Hi Chuck,
Well, I still like to fly Cessna 172 , and I'd like to rent the
PA- 12 that I trained in......
I'm not ready to just give up my "Private" to drop down to "sport"
I'll keep the option in mind if I think I'll ever have a problem passing a Medical.....
Heavy Ultralight ??? might as well just fly a J-3 illegaly , do you skip insurance
too ? might as well because when
they find out "Fraud" they don't pay anyway...
I don't know what angle your looking at this from.....I'm a Pilot that is trying
to get an aircraft in the air for some
CHEAP Flying........Not an Ultralight , I'm heavier ( by FAR ) than 254 lbs , It's
Faster than 63 , I have more than
5 gals of fuel on board , a passenger seat, Elec Start... and to fly as a BFI
you always need some excuse, alone or
with a passenger.... check yer 6...
Do not archive Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
PS Thanks! to the guys that understand.....
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down...
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re Re Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
-> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Like I said, I may be wrong, but I do not think all of that is necessary to
fly Light Sport or heavy Ultralight.
Chuck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Hi Chuck,
Well, I still like to fly Cessna 172 , and I'd like to rent
the PA- 12 that I trained in......
I'm not ready to just give up my "Private" to drop down to "sport"
I'll keep the option in mind if I think I'll ever have a problem passing a
Medical.....
Heavy Ultralight ??? might as well just fly a J-3 illegaly , do you skip
insurance too ? might as well because when
they find out "Fraud" they don't pay anyway...
I don't know what angle your looking at this from.....I'm a Pilot that is
trying to get an aircraft in the air for some
CHEAP Flying........Not an Ultralight , I'm heavier ( by FAR ) than 254 lbs
5 gals of fuel on board , a passenger seat, Elec Start... and to fly as a
BFI you always need some excuse, alone or
with a passenger.... check yer 6...
Do not archive Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
PS Thanks! to the guys that understand.....
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way
down...
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re Re Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Now that is a VERY good answer Mike. Now I understabd everything very well.
You'll enjoy flying the T Bird. It is what I trained in.
LEBTF
Chuck
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
-> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Like I said, I may be wrong, but I do not think all of that is necessary to
fly Light Sport or heavy Ultralight.
Chuck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Hi Chuck,
Well, I still like to fly Cessna 172 , and I'd like to rent
the PA- 12 that I trained in......
I'm not ready to just give up my "Private" to drop down to "sport"
I'll keep the option in mind if I think I'll ever have a problem passing a
Medical.....
Heavy Ultralight ??? might as well just fly a J-3 illegaly , do you skip
insurance too ? might as well because when
they find out "Fraud" they don't pay anyway...
I don't know what angle your looking at this from.....I'm a Pilot that is
trying to get an aircraft in the air for some
CHEAP Flying........Not an Ultralight , I'm heavier ( by FAR ) than 254 lbs
5 gals of fuel on board , a passenger seat, Elec Start... and to fly as a
BFI you always need some excuse, alone or
with a passenger.... check yer 6...
Do not archive Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
PS Thanks! to the guys that understand.....
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way
down...
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 37
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| Subject: | FireFly Getting Around |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
FireFlyers & Kolbers,
I had a fun weekend flying two almost one hundred mile triangular loops from
I22.
Saturday, I flew from Randolph Co 20.5 miles to Reese Field, a little
private strip a little south and east of Muncie. Then 17.6 miles to
Alexandria, Indiana to see my old sailplane buddies. Next 29.4 miles to
Henry Co Airport located next to New Castle, Indiana and where I filled up
with 100 LL and then 29.2 miles back to Randolph Co. Randolph Co. Total
straight line point to point trip distance was 96.7 miles.
Sunday, I flew from Randolph Co 34 miles to Connersville, Indiana and then
south another 9 miles to a grass strip that is inhabited by lots of ultra
lights called Nulltown Wingnuts on the chart. They have a fly-in breakfast
every first Sunday of the month. I got started much too late and so there
was no one there when I flew over so I turned and flew 21 miles to Richmond,
Indiana. As I approached there was lots of radio traffic and I discovered
they were having a huge parachuting fest. Filled up here with 100 LL. It
was interesting that their computer system could not handle filling up an
ultra light vehicle. They insisted on a tail number, so I suggested that
they use 103-7. But they used the word "can". It seems the system would
accept selling gas if it was put into a gas can. Then finally I flew my
ultra light vehicle gas can 28.6 miles to my home airport. Total straight
line point to point trip distance was 92.4 miles.
Average ground speed for the two trips was 46.0 and 46.6 mph point to point
with no allowances for deviation around inhabited areas and patterns. Fuel
flow was 2.38 and 2.31 gph. Burnt 5.0 and 4.59 gallons of gas. Total time
in the air was four hours, five minutes.
Today I rode the mower for five hours.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Do Not Archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re Re Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
My Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Hey Mike,
I just took a look at your web page. VERY nice job on that plane! Nice web
page too.
Cheers,
Rusty (worlds first rotary powered Kolb)
Do not archive (thanks to John for the reminder)
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