Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:26 AM - Re: UL crash video (David L. Bigelow)
2. 04:24 AM - Re: Getting Close (Ed Chmielewski)
3. 04:38 AM - Bogus Parts (Edward Steuber)
4. 04:40 AM - Re: UL crash video (PATRICK LADD)
5. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: UL crash video (robert bean)
6. 05:28 AM - Re: UL crash video (GeoR38@aol.com)
7. 05:58 AM - Re: UL crash video (GeoR38@aol.com)
8. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: UL crash video (PATRICK LADD)
9. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: UL crash video (GeoR38@aol.com)
10. 07:01 AM - Re: UL crash video (woody)
11. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: UL crash video (c b)
12. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Re: UL crash video (Chuck Stonex)
13. 08:57 AM - Re: Re: Re: UL crash video (Kirk Smith)
14. 09:06 AM - Re: BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video (Rusty)
15. 09:30 AM - Ms. Dixie (Paul Petty)
16. 10:20 AM - Re: BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video (John Hauck)
17. 10:23 AM - Re: Ms. Dixie (N27SB@aol.com)
18. 10:26 AM - Re: BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video (N27SB@aol.com)
19. 03:21 PM - Re:BRS use/UL crash video (Richard Pike)
20. 03:56 PM - Re: Ms. Dixie (Mitty)
21. 05:04 PM - Matronics Web Server Upgrade Today Tuesday 09/06/05 5pm PDT (Matt Dralle)
22. 06:32 PM - Re: FireFly Getting Around (Ron)
23. 06:58 PM - Re: BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video (Ron)
24. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: UL crash video (Robert Laird)
25. 08:36 PM - Re: Re: UL crash video (John Hauck)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
I looked at the video a bunch of times, and put the section from engine failure
to leaves going by in a loop.
My impression is that there wasn't much the pilot could do. The biggest mistake
I saw was the decision to climb over the trees rather than follow the road.
The camera lens is a wide angle lens, and everything looks further away than
actual. That particular QS was climbing in an under-powered manner. Wonder what
type of engine it had?
When it quit, he did push forward quickly and then immediately flared into the
tree tops. I don't think he had a prayer of turning to the road. Let's face
it folks. We all (at least occasionally) take off from fields where there is
point if the engine fails, it is going to be disastrous. That's what happened
here.
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, 503 DCDI
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Getting Close |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Go gittum, Lar!!!
Ed in JXN (MI)
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Getting Close
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Gots bad news for ya, Mike. Ya better hustle. I fired Vamoose up
> Saturday,
> and pinpointed the oil leak - again. Just now finished removing the
> redrive, and will put a new seal in it tomorrow. I'm also going to lower
> the oil pressure to stock settings, tho' it wasn't a factor originally.
> (the original input shaft didn't leak. It was only after it broke, and I
> upgraded to the heavier shaft that all this started) Then, upgrade my
> wiring diagram and call the inspector. Wish it'd cool off here, tho'. 45
> minutes out there, and I'm soaked and under cover in the house.
> Pheee-eeeewww........... ! ! ! BigLar in Furnace Springs.
> Do not Archive.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Building Kolb Mk III
> N78LB Vamoose
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
> To: "List Kolb" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Getting Close
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Hey Guys,
>> Well, I've got my Tailwheel endorsement (Piper PA - 12)
>> at
>> Stanton Field
>> I was signed "off" on my BFR , good for another two years.
>> Went down and got my Medical renewed....good for another two years...
>>
>> I'm trying to get some time in a T-bird ( 5 hrs ) and I've got a Flight
>> Advisor .....Both are required by the insurance
>> before they'll cover me.....
>>
>> Yah hear that Big Lar......I'm very close to BEATING YOU IN THE
>> AIR......
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
The final reason for the Cuyuna quiting is that the wrist pin bearings
were not even for a Cuyuna...I sent them to the Cuyuna parts supplier in Illinois
and he said he did not recognize them from anything he has seen. They were
11 roller caged type but not for a Cuyuna......came to me from a reputable shop
teardown but who knows what was done after the last owner took possession of
it.......it came with the paperwork from the shop but was dated a couple years
earlier in which time the last owner may have done the deed....I have run into
this in standard category aircraft before....the FAA told us at the last IA
meeting that annual inspections are only liable to the time the owner flys it
away.....once it leaves a mechanics control , he has none ! Paper work only
allows crooks to function more easily in a trusting environment...... Works the
same way with non -certified UL's....still hard to prove "who done it"
Wonder who it was that put my butt in harms way.....hope he has a "nice"
day
Ed in Western NY
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Hi Russ,
seeing that your post went to the list (by accident) I will reply the same
way.
My comment about Kolbs being featured on the BRS page was a jocular comment
occasioned not by the appearance of Kolbs on their list of `saves` but the
fact that the page showing how the parachute deploys when mounted above or
below the fuselage.
The illustrative drawings appear to me to be Kolbs.(and the lines go through
the propellor).
Sorry if I upset anyone.
Incidentally can someone post the URL to that piece of film of the U/L
crash. I accidentally wiped it.
Cheers
Pat
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
>
> My impression is that there wasn't much the pilot could do. The
> biggest mistake I saw was the decision to climb over the trees rather
> than follow the road. The camera lens is a wide angle lens, and
> everything looks further away than actual. That particular QS was
> climbing in an under-powered manner. Wonder what type of engine it
> had?
>
> When it quit, he did push forward quickly and then immediately flared
> into the tree tops. I don't think he had a prayer of turning to the
> road. Let's face it folks. We all (at least occasionally) take off
> from fields where there is point if the engine fails, it is going to
> be disastrous. That's what happened here.
>
> Dave Bigelow
> Kamuela, Hawaii
> FS2, 503 DCDI
> ----The best response so far Dave. I might add that I prefer to keep
> a little extra speed
over stall on my departures. Having a secure ego, I don't don't need
to do a max angle
to "please the crowd". Yeah, I know, altitude is my friend, but when
taking off over non-
hazardous ground, altitude is no big deal. I also now, in my cautious
old age, use all
the runway unless it's a 7000' expressway. In the old days I'd leave
from the nearest
intersection.
-BB, getting chilly in the mornings hereabouts
do not archive
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 9/4/2005 9:31:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tnfirestar2@yahoo.com writes:
http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv
wow! what a great....but painful lesson!! Major problem as I see it: too low
over the trees when he got there, and held the elevator level too long (2
seconds) before pulling it up which happened after he was in the trees.
you could hear the engine tightening up, slowing down a full second or two
before it stopped....thatis when the nose should have been lowered and a shallow
turn of 40 deg to go to the street may have been enough airspeed to give him
control. I was amazed at how that puppy mushed almost straight down...no glide
ratio there!
George Randolph
Firestar driver from the Villages fl
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 9/5/2005 9:54:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wcm@tampabay.rr.com writes:
The BRS may not have fully deployed in this case, however ther are 28
documented cases where pilots have been saved by a BRS at 100 ft. or less,
the lowest being only 25 ft. and all of them faired better than this poor
guy. See: http://www.brsparachutes.com/PI_saves.mgi
for complete list.
Chris M
I counted 7 Kolbs including one firefly in the list .... more than I had
imagined as I haven't heard of any on this list. I noticed at least one was due
to
inexperience after an engine out on another craft.
George Randolph
firestar driver from the villages, fl
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
use all the runway unless it's a 7000' expressway.>>
Hi Robert,
good thinking. They say there is nothing so useless as runway behind you.
As for keeping `alittle above the stall` at take off. A lot above the stall
would keep me happier.
Although I usually land the Challenger at 40/45 knots over the hedge I know
she will not quit flying until down to abou 26knots. I climb out at 50
knots. Big margins for me.
Cheers
Pat
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 9/6/2005 9:13:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pj.ladd@btinternet.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
use all the runway unless it's a 7000' expressway.>>
Hi Robert,
good thinking. They say there is nothing so useless as runway behind you.
As for keeping `alittle above the stall` at take off. A lot above the stall
would keep me happier.
Although I usually land the Challenger at 40/45 knots over the hedge I know
she will not quit flying until down to abou 26knots. I climb out at 50
knots. Big margins for me.
Cheers
Pat
hear hear...withyou 100%
George Randolph
the ol glider pilot from The Villages, fl
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
May I add my 2 cents?
As a recent unwilling participant in engine outs I would like to say
that all properly trained pilots will drop the nose as soon as the engine
gets rough or quiet no matter what and without thinking. Holding the stick
back won't keep you in the air. Lets call this emergencey protocall 101.
Engine quiet, nose down. Now figure out what to do. In that order.
Could a chute have helped? Don't know but it would have been something to
do on the way in. I didn't have one and don't know if I would have deployed
it. Past experience had taught me not to worry about a simple engine out. Up
untill the last couple seconds I thought I would make it with minimal
damage. Damm wrong again. At that point in time I doubt I would have taken
my hands off anything to pull the handle anyway.
I have not seen the video but if the idiot made a habit of low flying over
congested areas he was not a properly trained pilot and was an accident
waiting to happen. Altituide is the pilots best friend.
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "c b" <seedeebee@hotmail.com>
Hey Guys,
What's your opinion re BRS vs. Glide to a Landing over a suitable looking
field (you can never really tell).
Over trees it's a no brainer (pull the handle). Over an "open" field
though...?
I know of a Long-EZ driver who suffered an engine out and was able to glide
to a suitable field. As he approached he saw trees at the far end. He
decided to shoot for the approach end of the field, rather than the center,
so he would be sure to roll out before hitting the trees, so as not to
damage his bird.
When he got 30' or so over the approach end he hit the power lines that PG&E
decided to string along the boundary of the field.
Nosed down 45 degrees and went in. Paralyzed for life, but lived. He figures
if he hit the middle of the field he would have bent the plane, but he would
have been going fairly slowly when he hit the trees...
Never a good choice, but the moral of the story is, how much do you take
your precious airplane (and wallet) into account in a forced landing?
Pulling the handle will cost at least $3,000 plus downtime to repair bent
gear etc...
Chris Banys
MK III Amphib (on wheels right now) 912
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
Good point. Truth is that you never really know until you find out.
"You'll know you know when you know"
LEBTF
Chuck
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "c b" <seedeebee@hotmail.com>
Hey Guys,
What's your opinion re BRS vs. Glide to a Landing over a suitable looking
field (you can never really tell).
Over trees it's a no brainer (pull the handle). Over an "open" field
though...?
I know of a Long-EZ driver who suffered an engine out and was able to glide
to a suitable field. As he approached he saw trees at the far end. He
decided to shoot for the approach end of the field, rather than the center,
so he would be sure to roll out before hitting the trees, so as not to
damage his bird.
When he got 30' or so over the approach end he hit the power lines that PG&E
decided to string along the boundary of the field.
Nosed down 45 degrees and went in. Paralyzed for life, but lived. He figures
if he hit the middle of the field he would have bent the plane, but he would
have been going fairly slowly when he hit the trees...
Never a good choice, but the moral of the story is, how much do you take
your precious airplane (and wallet) into account in a forced landing?
Pulling the handle will cost at least $3,000 plus downtime to repair bent
gear etc...
Chris Banys
MK III Amphib (on wheels right now) 912
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> Good point. Truth is that you never really know until you find out.
> "You'll know you know when you know"
This is profound! But worth archiving?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Interesting discussion. I would say that the aircraft condition should not
be taken into consideration at all. Too many people have lost their lives
by trying to "save the plane". Forget that! Save yourself, and get a new
plane.
The subject of when to pull the BRS isn't simple either. As well as they
appear to work, they aren't perfect. We rarely hear about the ones that
don't work, but I suspect there are a fair number that fail to save the
pilot for one reason or another, not necessarily BRS's fault. There's always
the possibility that the chute will get fouled, or not deploy correctly. If
that happens, you're in deep you know what, so it better have been your last
hope in the first place. Even with a perfect deployment, you still have to
hope that you don't drift into a power line, or in front of a truck, or
train, etc. The bottom line is that it's far better to NOT have to use the
chute. I really do believe these are a last resort item, and not something
to be counted on. It really bothers me to hear Cirrus owners say they will
just pull the handle if they stumble into IMC.
I agree that over trees is a no brainer, and it's the main reason I got a
BRS for the SS. Around here, the primary crop is pine trees for paper
company use. It's easy to say you shouldn't fly over any area that doesn't
have a safe landing option, but it just simply isn't always possible. If I
have a good road, or open field, I'll take that any day rather than using
the chute, though it's good to know that the chute could still work at lower
altitudes. Lot's of the field that initially look pretty good from
altitude, are full of pine tree stumps that haven't been removed yet. That
would be a tough call. Over water, I'll probably ditch the plane, rather
than use the chute.
All the above are just my thoughts, and not necessarily correct. Whatever
you decide, I think it's helpful to think about it prior to the actual
event. I'm betting that will improve your response if it actually happens.
Cheers,
Rusty (zoom, zoom)
----------------------------
Never a good choice, but the moral of the story is, how much do you take
your precious airplane (and wallet) into account in a forced landing?
Pulling the handle will cost at least $3,000 plus downtime to repair bent
gear etc...
Chris Banys
MK III Amphib (on wheels right now) 912
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
required 4.6, BAYES_44 -0.00, HTML_MESSAGE 0.25)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <lynnp@c-gate.net>
Hi Kolbers,
Got power back today as well as internet service. Katrina packed quite a punch
for our area but we came through with no damage to any structures or hangers.
Even the hanger where the RV8 is in Laurel was ok. (sheeewww) It has been a tuff
week trying to work and help folks with out A/C. But we made it. Funny story
... as we sat wed afternoon nothing to do but try and stay cool... thoughts
of the Kolbra probably the farthest thing from our minds...Charley looks at me
and says "See that box over there on the 4-wheeler?" I'm like yeah what is it?
He replies "That's the flap motor for the Kolbra!"
The heat subsided for a second and next thing ya know he had parts out talking
about the best way to mount it! Katrina may have cause a 7 day delay but you cant
keep a Kolb builder down for long.
Work on her resumes tonight!
Our hearts and prayers go out to all the Katrina victims less fortunate than us.....
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
www.c-gate.net/~ppetty
ps... Kenneth Reeves Kolbra is ok as well!
do not archive
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
(zoom, zoom)
Rusty/Gang:
Anyone out there actually deployed a parachute to save themselves?
john h
MKIII
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
Good news Paul, Last year we had the 1 2 3 punch from Hurricanes. That added
up to 27 days of no power and limited supplies. Having 50 gals of fuel in
reserve along with a small generator and window a/c makes all the difference in
the world. I even had time to work on the firefly.
steve
Firefly #007
do not archive
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
Actually John, I would like to hear the details of your episodes. Don't think
I ever heard them firsthand.
steve
do not archive
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RE:BRS use/UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Good points, especially the part about not worrying about saving the
airplane. I have a couple small, marginal, but available fields right off
the end of my runway at 90 degrees to my take off direction. I have walked
those fields on several occasions, mentally trying to file away where the
rocks and hazards are, just in case I ever lost an engine on takeoff.
Well, back in 2003, I somehow failed to tighten up a main jet after some
maintenance, and it waited until about 100' up right over the end of the
runway to fall out. (Don't they always?) The engine dropped to 4400 rpm and
stabilized there, which was distressing enough, but now I had to make a
decision: try and nurse it back around to the strip, (because it will
almost maintain altitude at 4400) or chop the power and land in the
marginal cow field?
Since I had already walked the field, and it was just then immediately off
my right wing, that made my decision for me. I pulled power to idle and
dropped the nose, didn't even have time to get the flaps down. I have a
chute, but that was an obviously inferior option to the little field.
Landed w/o incident, found the problem, and after clearing out a bunch of
big weeds to make a sort of runway, flew it back out 45 minutes later.
Spent the rest of the day cleaning off cow poop and green weed stains.
What made the difference was knowing that I had a place to go that would
permit me to likely walk away, even if I bent the gear, tore something up,
etc. Hopefully most of us are emotionally well rounded enough that if we
should have to trash the Kolb to save our skins, we can lick our emotional
wounds by riding the motorcycle, building another RC airplane, taking Sweet
Thing square dancing, etc, and not feel the need to Save The Airplane. My
attitude is - I built this airplane, if necessary, I can build another -
assuming I am in good health. Go for the Good Health, worry about airplanes
later. (Your spouse will agree with this plan - trust me)
But unless we have carefully worked our way through our options ahead of
time, our decision making process might not come up with the right option
soon enough.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 11:05 AM 9/6/05 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
>Interesting discussion. I would say that the aircraft condition should not
>be taken into consideration at all. Too many people have lost their lives
>by trying to "save the plane". Forget that! Save yourself, and get a new
>plane.
>
>The subject of when to pull the BRS isn't simple either. As well as they
>appear to work, they aren't perfect. We rarely hear about the ones that
>don't work, but I suspect there are a fair number that fail to save the
>pilot for one reason or another, not necessarily BRS's fault. There's always
>the possibility that the chute will get fouled, or not deploy correctly. If
>that happens, you're in deep you know what, so it better have been your last
>hope in the first place. Even with a perfect deployment, you still have to
>hope that you don't drift into a power line, or in front of a truck, or
>train, etc. The bottom line is that it's far better to NOT have to use the
>chute. I really do believe these are a last resort item, and not something
>to be counted on. It really bothers me to hear Cirrus owners say they will
>just pull the handle if they stumble into IMC.
>
>I agree that over trees is a no brainer, and it's the main reason I got a
>BRS for the SS. Around here, the primary crop is pine trees for paper
>company use. It's easy to say you shouldn't fly over any area that doesn't
>have a safe landing option, but it just simply isn't always possible. If I
>have a good road, or open field, I'll take that any day rather than using
>the chute, though it's good to know that the chute could still work at lower
>altitudes. Lot's of the field that initially look pretty good from
>altitude, are full of pine tree stumps that haven't been removed yet. That
>would be a tough call. Over water, I'll probably ditch the plane, rather
>than use the chute.
>
>All the above are just my thoughts, and not necessarily correct. Whatever
>you decide, I think it's helpful to think about it prior to the actual
>event. I'm betting that will improve your response if it actually happens.
>
>
>Cheers,
>Rusty (zoom, zoom)
>
>
>----------------------------
>Never a good choice, but the moral of the story is, how much do you take
>your precious airplane (and wallet) into account in a forced landing?
>
>Pulling the handle will cost at least $3,000 plus downtime to repair bent
>gear etc...
>
>Chris Banys
>MK III Amphib (on wheels right now) 912
>
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mitty <benny_bee_01@yahoo.com>
Elllll yeah:)
Thats the spirit,brother Paul:)
We had power since tuesday.I just got home...need to
go help my friend build a frame piece for his 580 hp
ElCamino to mount another transmission.
Peace out :)
do not archive or you may do if you wish.:)
Mitty
--- Paul Petty <lynnp@c-gate.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty"
> <lynnp@c-gate.net>
>
> Hi Kolbers,
> Got power back today as well as internet service.
> Katrina packed quite a punch for our area but we
> came through with no damage to any structures or
> hangers. Even the hanger where the RV8 is in Laurel
> was ok. (sheeewww) It has been a tuff week trying to
> work and help folks with out A/C. But we made it.
> Funny story ... as we sat wed afternoon nothing to
> do but try and stay cool... thoughts of the Kolbra
> probably the farthest thing from our minds...Charley
> looks at me and says "See that box over there on the
> 4-wheeler?" I'm like yeah what is it? He replies
> "That's the flap motor for the Kolbra!"
> The heat subsided for a second and next thing ya
> know he had parts out talking about the best way to
> mount it! Katrina may have cause a 7 day delay but
> you cant keep a Kolb builder down for long.
> Work on her resumes tonight!
> Our hearts and prayers go out to all the Katrina
> victims less fortunate than us.....
>
> Paul Petty
> Building Ms. Dixie
> Kolbra/912UL/Warp
> www.c-gate.net/~ppetty
> ps... Kenneth Reeves Kolbra is ok as well!
> do not archive
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Upgrade Today Tuesday 09/06/05 5pm PDT |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I will be taking the Matronics Web Server down for a few hours today,
Tuesday September 6 2005 for a chassis upgrade. Archive browsing and
searching along with subscription services will be unavailable for
about 2 hours beginning at 5pm PDT. Incoming and outgoing email will
be processed normally during the upgrade. Please check the Matronics
System Status Page for updates (although this page resides on the web
server and won't be available during the upgrade):
http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Getting Around |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net>
Which one was faster? :-)
Ron
Arizona
Do not archive
======================
Today I rode the mower for five hours.
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net>
Too many people have lost their lives
by trying to "save the plane". Forget that! Save yourself, and get a new
plane.
Words to live by! (pun intended)
The last consideration a pilot should have is which is more valuable,
him or his contraption. Like it has been said, you can fix almost
anything except death.
As for the video of that fellow crushing into trees. All I can think
of is "but for the grace of god there goes I".
Could have he recovered in time to turn to his left and make the
road? I'd like to think he could, but if it would, it would have to
have been a split second decision. I ain't gonna second guess the
fellow.
Ron
Arizona
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
At 03:25 AM 9/6/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow@verizon.net>
>
>I looked at the video a bunch of times, and put the section from engine
>failure to leaves going by in a loop.
The fellow was a 100-hr Cessna driver, and low-time UL pilot (first flight
in his QS was 8/6/2005). Altitude is your best friend, but so is
Experience. He has some, now.
The engine he had on that QS was a Cuyuna 430.
I give the guy mucho grande credit for posting the video... He didn't have
to post it, but it may save the lives of many others who see it.
-- Robert
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: UL crash video |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
flight
| in his QS was 8/6/2005). -- Robert
Robert L/Gang:
Seems he was also a low-time Cessna driver.
john h
MKIII
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|