Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:47 AM - HKS 700 engine (Kirk Smith)
2. 12:19 PM - Kolb Quit. (PATRICK LADD)
3. 02:00 PM - Re: Kolb Quit. (Silver Fern Microlights Ltd)
4. 03:02 PM - Re: Kolb Quit. (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
5. 04:53 PM - Re: Kolb Quit. (John Hauck)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Group,
Green Sky adventures http://www.greenskyadventures.com/ has mounted a HKS engine on a Kitfox replacing a 582 Rotax. Some flight testing has been done and they flew it to Oshkosh. A report on this flight is supposed to be coming soon. They seem to be satisfied with the performance so far. Should be interesting to follow as they sell both Rotax and HKS engines.
Do not archive
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Hi all,
among the measures suggested to get the weight down on my Kolb Xtra is
cutting down part of the tail wheel assembly.This will lower the tail
I feel that this is a last resort as I think that the Kolb has a very high
angle of attack when at rest on the ground and I wonder if this high A of A
contributes to the Kolb Quit when pilots are sitting nose high in the flair
with falling airspeed while feeling for a three point landing. .
Any of you long hours pilots have an opinion on this?
Cheers
Pat
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Pat/All,
My view on the so called Kolb Quit lays mainly with the pilot.
If the approach speed is sufficient and the flare is not done at too great a
height all will be fine.
On the Classic there is a large amount of flap (too much in my opinion) and
when the nose is raised to flare the speed drops very fast resulting in the
aircraft starting to sink faster and faster. The MkIII series by their
design are draggy planes with little stored energy and a relatively high
wing loading for their type, all aircraft that have the same aspects will
exhibit the same, I sure would not land the Cap 10 in the three point
attitude at the stall, in fact as a high hour qualified flying instructor
and flight examiner and test pilot I would very rarely let the speed drop to
stall at the landing, Speed is safety.
The New steel main gear legs sit the nose up even higher along with the
Slingshot etc and even there I can see no real problem with the wing
incidence on the ground.
In my experience at low approach speed keep the approach angle shallow and
the power on and do not cut the power until you are quite close to the
ground.
From a glide approach the angle is quite steep and you need to maintain a
much higher speed as when you level off and flare the energy in the aircraft
runs out very quickly.
Keeping a higher approach speed and a shallower approach angle and not
shutting the throttle until close to the ground will actually give some
'float' and good landings generally.
KEEP THE SPEED UP AND KEEP SAFE.
Kind Regards
Mike
Xtra/Jab 2200
110 hrs on the clock and climbing
----- Original Message -----
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Quit.
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>
> Hi all,
> among the measures suggested to get the weight down on my Kolb Xtra is
> cutting down part of the tail wheel assembly.This will lower the tail
> I feel that this is a last resort as I think that the Kolb has a very high
> angle of attack when at rest on the ground and I wonder if this high A of
> A
> contributes to the Kolb Quit when pilots are sitting nose high in the
> flair
> with falling airspeed while feeling for a three point landing. .
>
> Any of you long hours pilots have an opinion on this?
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05@comcast.net>
Pat
Mike covered it very well but to answer the other part of the question most
Kolbs have a fairly low angle of attack on the ground that's why we commonly
say you can't really do a full stall 3pt landing. You said cut down the tail
wheel assembly? If you are talking about cutting the aluminum tail
strut/spring what ever its called. I kind of like the stock length because
it gives a smoother ride on rough ground. Are you fighting a aft CG issue?
Why not move something heavy to the nose cone.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Quit.
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd"
> <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> Pat/All,
> My view on the so called Kolb Quit lays mainly with the pilot.
> If the approach speed is sufficient and the flare is not done at too great
> a
> height all will be fine.
> On the Classic there is a large amount of flap (too much in my opinion)
> and
> when the nose is raised to flare the speed drops very fast resulting in
> the
> aircraft starting to sink faster and faster. The MkIII series by their
> design are draggy planes with little stored energy and a relatively high
> wing loading for their type, all aircraft that have the same aspects will
> exhibit the same, I sure would not land the Cap 10 in the three point
> attitude at the stall, in fact as a high hour qualified flying instructor
> and flight examiner and test pilot I would very rarely let the speed drop
> to
> stall at the landing, Speed is safety.
> The New steel main gear legs sit the nose up even higher along with the
> Slingshot etc and even there I can see no real problem with the wing
> incidence on the ground.
> In my experience at low approach speed keep the approach angle shallow and
> the power on and do not cut the power until you are quite close to the
> ground.
> From a glide approach the angle is quite steep and you need to maintain a
> much higher speed as when you level off and flare the energy in the
> aircraft
> runs out very quickly.
> Keeping a higher approach speed and a shallower approach angle and not
> shutting the throttle until close to the ground will actually give some
> 'float' and good landings generally.
> KEEP THE SPEED UP AND KEEP SAFE.
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Mike
> Xtra/Jab 2200
> 110 hrs on the clock and climbing
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Quit.
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>>
>> Hi all,
>> among the measures suggested to get the weight down on my Kolb Xtra is
>> cutting down part of the tail wheel assembly.This will lower the tail
>> I feel that this is a last resort as I think that the Kolb has a very
>> high
>> angle of attack when at rest on the ground and I wonder if this high A of
>> A
>> contributes to the Kolb Quit when pilots are sitting nose high in the
>> flair
>> with falling airspeed while feeling for a three point landing. .
>>
>> Any of you long hours pilots have an opinion on this?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| If the approach speed is sufficient and the flare is not done at too
great a
| height all will be fine.
| Mike
Mike/Pat/Rick/All:
Absolutely agree with Mike on the above statement.
I really do not know about "Kolb Quit", a term that was recently
coined by Pat Ladd, who has yet to fly his Kolb. All aircraft stall
when they finish flying. The airplane doesn't care if it is a foot
off the ground or 10 feet off the ground. It is the pilot that should
control the airplane, not the airplane controlling the pilot.
I have always built my Kolbs much taller on the mains that Homer Kolb
designed. Primarily, to help slow down and stop the airplane on my
short grass airstrip. By being able to turn the bottom of the wing up
to the relative wind, I could get the Firestar stopped before I ran
out of airstrip. As an added bonus, the tall main gear gave me the
capability of rotating much sooner, and also put the aircraft in a
normal three point landing stance.
Normally, I shoot my approaches in the Kolbs with the throttle closed,
not using power as a crutch to make the field. I believe this is good
training that will come in handy should the engine quit on final. In
the early days of ULs, losing an engine on final was a frequent
occurance.
Homer Kolb designed his airplanes to sit in a level attitude for one
reason, to make them safer for low time pilots. He feels if it takes
more airspeed to get the airplane off the ground and back on again, in
a level attitude, they are less prone to stall and crash.
I also cut my tail wheel strut very short, with approximately 5 inches
of exposed strut. This does several things for me. One is gets the
nose a little higher to compensate for the 8 inch Maule Tundra
Tailwheel. It also takes a lot of lateral loads off the tail post. I
have broken the tail post of my MKIII several times because of a lot
of landings and an overly heavy tail. We helped strengthen the tail
post by adding a couple struts from the bottom of the tail post to the
tail boom ring. Probably one of the best modifications made to my
MKIII.
I like the oversized flaps on my MKIII. I normally use them every
landing, unless there is severe turbulence and cross wind. They are
an important part of my emergency equipment should the engine quit.
They allow me to land in very small forced landing areas that would
not be possible to make without flaps.
The extremely steep glide angle with flaps contributes to the fun and
excitement of flying a MKIII. Since the technique to land a MKIII,
with 40 degrees of flaps, is not like a "real" airplane, suddenly
folks come up with terms like "Kolb quit". My first approach in a
MKIII was as a passenger. Dennis Souder was checking me out in the
factory MKIII in February 1991. I was sure he was going to drill the
MKIII and me right through the earth. At the very last split second,
Dennis did a slight flare, decent stopped, and we were on the ground.
Now, that is my way of making a normal MKIII landing. Any shallower
approach angle is what I term a B-52 approach.
Learn to fly the airplane and terms like "Kolb quit" will no longer be
a part of your vocabulary.
john h
MKIII - 2,373.9
912ULS - 1,028.0 hours
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