---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/18/05: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:43 AM - Re: Kolb Kwit (David L. Bigelow) 2. 04:22 AM - Re: More History - Trailer for sale (Denny Rowe) 3. 04:39 AM - 2SI engines (Edward Steuber) 4. 05:26 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Kwit (Kirk Smith) 5. 05:34 AM - Re: 2SI engines (Chuck Stonex) 6. 05:38 AM - Re: Ready for the home coming (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 7. 05:51 AM - departure odds (robert bean) 8. 06:58 AM - Kolb Mark III for sale (flykolb) 9. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Kwit (PATRICK LADD) 10. 05:12 PM - Re: 2SI engines (Don Gherardini) 11. 06:12 PM - Re: 2SI engines (Denny Rowe) 12. 06:25 PM - Re: 2SI engines (Chuck Stonex) 13. 06:29 PM - Re: 2SI engines (Chuck Stonex) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:14 AM PST US From: "David L. Bigelow" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Kwit --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David L. Bigelow" Last post on this subject: Let's face it folks - we count on our engines every time we fly. I suppose you can do a profile where you take off on a long enough runway, where, if the engine quits you can either land straight ahead, or do an abbreviated pattern. In the real world, you can try and maximize your chances of finding a place to land if the engine quits, but there are plenty of moments in every flight where a failure is going to result in a landing that will bend the aircraft (and maybe you). The only cure for this is to choose a reliable engine and maintain it. That's why John H. likes his 912 so much. Making normal approaches with a 2 - 3 degree glide path and power on is the preferred technique for light aircraft, and has been for a number of years. An FAA check pilot is looking for a stabilized power-on approach. The 2 - 3 degree glide path is even used in sailplanes. You establish the approach angle with the proper airspeed, and modulate the spoilers and pitch attitude to maintain the desired airspeed and glide path. You use the spoilers like a throttle, and can spot a landing within a few feet of where you desire. It's the same with jet fighters, jet airliners, light twins, Cessna 150's, gyro copters, and any ultralight I've flown. In fact, the only aircrart I've flown where it isn't the best technique is hang gliders. No spoilers there, and every approach is power off. None of this relieves us from learning the skills of an engine out approach. It just makes good sense to practice them so you have a reasonable chance of surviving an unplanned landing. Again, in the real world, my Firestar descends at 600 feet per minute with the engine off. At 1,000 feet, there are 100 seconds to select a place to land, set up the approach, and land - not very much time. Most of the time, our engines are not so considerate, and like to quit at a couple of hundred feet right after takeoff. How about 20 seconds or less from silence to touchdown? Just enough time to lower the nose, maybe turn a few degrees one way or other, grit your teeth, and flare. Point is, you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can't eliminate the risk. If you are going to have any fun in this sport, you are not going to spend every second of every flight worrying about the engine quitting. You fly the aircraft using the techniques that have proven successful over the years, and if the engine quits, you deal with it. Dave Bigelow Kamuela, HI FS2 503 DCDI ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:23 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More History - Trailer for sale --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Dennis, I think all here will agree that your name on the message makes it Kolb related, but thanks for the great story as a bonus. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, Leechburg, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Souder" Subject: Kolb-List: More History - Trailer for sale ) > > If I told an interesting story, I figured you wouldn't mind so much if I > mentioned about a trailer I have for sale. > Hope you enjoyed the story and didn't mind the ad. > > Dennis > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:18 AM PST US From: "Edward Steuber" Subject: Kolb-List: 2SI engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" Chuck, All parts for the 2SI are available but the invoice from the supplier comes with a disclaimer for ultralights. The supplier says the Cuyuna UL202 is almost identical to the 2SI's except for ignition. Check the archives and you will see that Cuyuna's (2SI's)are controversial to say the least . Some hate them , some like them. I don't have enough time with them to say ....although I have just had a failure due to incorrect parts installed that certainly is not the engines fault... I think a Challenger with the 503 is a better choice but a 40 hp would be OK for anyone under 170#...probably be a little "doggy" with bigger pilots. ED in Western NY do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:39 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Kwit --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > Making normal approaches with a 2 - 3 degree glide path and power on is the preferred technique for light aircraft, and has been for a number of years. Several of the fields I've flown into a 2-3 degree glide path might get me to within 50 feet above the runway. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:57 AM PST US From: "Chuck Stonex" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 2SI engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" Good morning Ed. The C-IIcw I'm looking at has the 3 cylinder 2si on it with a 3 blade prop. I think it is 50hp+/-. It is a 3 carb, single ignition, water cooled engine. I think it should skoot pretty good. I think that the early model Cuyuna (2si's) (early 1980 - 1990) had major problems. I know of some that have flown the Cuyuna 377 for hundreds of hours with no problems. I know of others that never got off the ground. I know guys with Rotax 377 and 618 that have the same stories. But it is also like you said, pilot error causes the problems. Who is the supplier that you mention? I talked to the factory and they said "not even a screw or hose clamp"! There is even an announcement on the 2si web site that says they will not support it as of 1990 something. He would not even give me a general opinion of the engine from the moment I said it was mounted on an air frame. Chuck --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" Chuck, All parts for the 2SI are available but the invoice from the supplier comes with a disclaimer for ultralights. The supplier says the Cuyuna UL202 is almost identical to the 2SI's except for ignition. Check the archives and you will see that Cuyuna's (2SI's)are controversial to say the least . Some hate them , some like them. I don't have enough time with them to say ....although I have just had a failure due to incorrect parts installed that certainly is not the engines fault... I think a Challenger with the 503 is a better choice but a 40 hp would be OK for anyone under 170#...probably be a little "doggy" with bigger pilots. ED in Western NY do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:55 AM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ready for the home coming --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com Richard Thanks for Homers info I hope I can catch him around when I just drop in on him Ellery in Maine Original Firestar do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:00 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: departure odds --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean (changed from Kolb Kwit) Ah, the variety of hazards lying below our exit paths. And departures quantify more failures than approaches. Trailer parks, cemeteries, junk yards, swamps. On a north departure from my strip, first get past interstate 90, flanked by steep berms each side, to a formerly survivable ridge that the owner 2 years ago dotted with dirt bike ramps. Then last year he bulldozed them smooth (yes!) only to plant a huge pumpkin patch. Like in bowling, there's no substitute for luck. -BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:37 AM PST US From: "flykolb" Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mark III for sale --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flykolb" Denny and others, I will be moving soon and will not be able to take my Mark III with me :-(. It is for sale now. I will be putting it on barnstormers soon but thought I would post it here first. Built in 1991 by a machinist. Has a Rotax 532 with dual carbs and CDI ignition (new). Dual strobes Electric start 2 five gallon fuel tanks Pitch control. BRS system (1,095 lbs) Fresh annual Registered experimental - great sport plane Enclosed cockpit with removable doors 2 blade wood prop 68" Has been kept in shade port Flys great and I have certainly enjoyed it! I hope it goes to someone who will enjoy it as much!! $ 14,500 with BRS $ 13,000 without BRS Pictures at http://www.jimskolb.com Jim Mark III Charlotte, NC 704-595-1820 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Stonex" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI Engines. > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" > > Denny > I started to buy a M-III till someone else got it before me. I am > considering a Firestar. I do want a 2 seater. I do not want to settle for > "just anything" and then try to find another one later. I saw 2 low time > 503's for sale for about $2500. One came off of a Challenger and has a tall > drive. I thought maybe I would pick one of them up to replace the 2si. BUT > it is still a 1989 air frame but it only has 100hrs on it. If I can get it > cheap enough I can make it work. > Chuck S > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" > > Chuck, > I would pass on a 50 hp 2SI powered two seat Challenger, especially with the > clipped wing. > That must be the 460L engine that is a little under 50 horses. > I would want at least a 503 dual carb on that bird. > Denny > do not archive > PS: How about the Mk-2 with the new 503 someone is selling on the list and > barnstormers? That is a bird that performs Great on a 503. Kind of like a > Firestar II with room for a REAL passenger. :-) I think I heard it has the > 3.47 to 1 C gearbox, if so that is as good as it gets with a Mk-2 or > Firestar II. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Stonex" > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI Engines. > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" > > > > Denny; > > You did not muddy any waters on my end. I am seriously looking at a 1989 > > Challenger II Clip wing with a 50 hp motor on it. Cuyuna is a good reason > > to > > stay on the ground. This motor might be different. Thanks for the input. > > Chuck > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" > > > > > > I have another major question. With out causing too much contriversy, > > does > > > any one have any experiance or knowledge of 2SI engines? I do know that > > > according to he factory they will not support the engine if it is > > > mounted > > > on > > > an airframe but it is still available for watercraft and snowmobiles > and > > > pumps. It is reliable and safe or is it like a Cuyuna. I am seriously > > > looking at a Challenger II CW that has one on it with less that 100 > > hours. > > > Chuck S > > > > > > > > > Chuck, > > I have the 690 engine on my Mk-3, only 70hrs as I have not flown this > year > > for personal reasons. > > So far I am pretty happy with the 690 but have too little time on it to > > give > > you a difinitive answer. > > As this engine is unsupported by the manufacturer it does put you in a > > compromised position. > > Sorry for mudding up the water for you. > > > > Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA, Still in hanger building mode. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:38 AM PST US From: "PATRICK LADD" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Kwit --> Kolb-List message posted by: "PATRICK LADD" you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can't eliminate the risk>> Very succinctly put, Dave. I am sure we could argue about the details of how you do that but neither of us would basically disagree. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:50 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Chuck, That 3 cyl engine you are looking at is a 690L...and it makes a strong 70 ponies. The supplier you want to talk to is Zerkle, Roger E-mail Address(es): zde@frtci.net ZDE..or Zerkle Diversified Enterprises.. FlatRock Illinois Tell em his old Honda Rep sent ya...hehe Roger was the official distributor for 2SI engines, until Nick (owner of 2 stroke inc) got so mad over frivilous lawsuits he decided to abandon the airplane market and left the dealers and distributors high and dry. Being the only American manufacturer with any serious market share catering to this small market, he was the only one that really has to defend himself against loseing all the company assets. Rotax, and Hirth of course do not have to worry about loseing anything because they have no assets in the USA that an American court could attach. ...Roger has a strong backround in aviation, from teaching A&P at a University until retirement...he is an EX DAR/AI ...and....he served in the navy as a S-2 crew chief on a carrier...the Yorktown if I remember right...but he was a lot younger then!!! He has a lot of parts and engines and will be able to keep these engines going for a very long time.Plus he has contracted to various vendors and is haveing many parts that are hard to get for the oldest engines made. Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:12 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Chuck, Don is right, that is a 690L-70 on that Challenger. It is 70hp and is more than enough for that bird, way more power than a 503. 2SIs 50 hp model looks just like the 690 but is only two cylinder. For parts and service call Roger at ZDE 618-584-3567. Denny Rowe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Stonex" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 2SI engines > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" > > Good morning Ed. > The C-IIcw I'm looking at has the 3 cylinder 2si on it with a 3 blade > prop. > I think it is 50hp+/-. It is a 3 carb, single ignition, water cooled > engine. > I think it should skoot pretty good. I think that the early model Cuyuna > (2si's) (early 1980 - 1990) had major problems. I know of some that have > flown the Cuyuna 377 for hundreds of hours with no problems. I know of > others that never got off the ground. I know guys with Rotax 377 and 618 > that have the same stories. But it is also like you said, pilot error > causes > the problems. > Who is the supplier that you mention? I talked to the factory and they > said > "not even a screw or hose clamp"! There is even an announcement on the 2si > web site that says they will not support it as of 1990 something. He would > not even give me a general opinion of the engine from the moment I said it > was mounted on an air frame. > Chuck > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:22 PM PST US From: "Chuck Stonex" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" so is this a good motor then ?? Chuck --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Chuck, Don is right, that is a 690L-70 on that Challenger. It is 70hp and is more than enough for that bird, way more power than a 503. 2SIs 50 hp model looks just like the 690 but is only two cylinder. For parts and service call Roger at ZDE 618-584-3567. Denny Rowe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Stonex" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 2SI engines > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" > > Good morning Ed. > The C-IIcw I'm looking at has the 3 cylinder 2si on it with a 3 blade > prop. > I think it is 50hp+/-. It is a 3 carb, single ignition, water cooled > engine. > I think it should skoot pretty good. I think that the early model Cuyuna > (2si's) (early 1980 - 1990) had major problems. I know of some that have > flown the Cuyuna 377 for hundreds of hours with no problems. I know of > others that never got off the ground. I know guys with Rotax 377 and 618 > that have the same stories. But it is also like you said, pilot error > causes > the problems. > Who is the supplier that you mention? I talked to the factory and they > said > "not even a screw or hose clamp"! There is even an announcement on the 2si > web site that says they will not support it as of 1990 something. He would > not even give me a general opinion of the engine from the moment I said it > was mounted on an air frame. > Chuck > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:15 PM PST US From: "Chuck Stonex" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI engines --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" Thanks Don I assume you have seen this Challenger then? I'll contact your friend Roger and see what he has to offer to shed light on this matter. Chuck --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Chuck, That 3 cyl engine you are looking at is a 690L...and it makes a strong 70 ponies. The supplier you want to talk to is Zerkle, Roger E-mail Address(es): zde@frtci.net ZDE..or Zerkle Diversified Enterprises.. FlatRock Illinois Tell em his old Honda Rep sent ya...hehe Roger was the official distributor for 2SI engines, until Nick (owner of 2 stroke inc) got so mad over frivilous lawsuits he decided to abandon the airplane market and left the dealers and distributors high and dry. Being the only American manufacturer with any serious market share catering to this small market, he was the only one that really has to defend himself against loseing all the company assets. Rotax, and Hirth of course do not have to worry about loseing anything because they have no assets in the USA that an American court could attach. ...Roger has a strong backround in aviation, from teaching A&P at a University until retirement...he is an EX DAR/AI ...and....he served in the navy as a S-2 crew chief on a carrier...the Yorktown if I remember right...but he was a lot younger then!!! He has a lot of parts and engines and will be able to keep these engines going for a very long time.Plus he has contracted to various vendors and is haveing many parts that are hard to get for the oldest engines made. Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm