Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:20 AM - Re: Second Chantz 'chute & Rotax engines (pat ladd)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: Flyin Driving Directions (John Hauck)
3. 05:33 AM - Flyin Driving Directions (Rex Rodebush)
4. 05:46 AM - Re: Flyin Driving Directions (Don Gherardini)
5. 09:41 AM - Re: Kolb Flyin Pics! (Gherkins Tim-rp3420)
6. 11:00 AM - Dave and Ed's landing opinions (JUDD LYNN)
7. 11:46 AM - Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee (guy truex)
8. 12:01 PM - singing wings (pat ladd)
9. 01:11 PM - Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
10. 01:34 PM - Re: singing wings (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
11. 01:44 PM - Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee (Michael Sharp)
12. 03:41 PM - Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee (Robert Noyer)
13. 05:01 PM - Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee (Dennis Souder)
14. 05:38 PM - Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee (Chuck Stonex)
15. 05:44 PM - Re: singing wings (robert bean)
16. 05:48 PM - Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee (Denny Rowe)
17. 06:14 PM - Re: Dave and Ed's landing opinions (Mike Schnabel)
18. 06:15 PM - Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee (Mike Schnabel)
19. 07:18 PM - Kolb MkIII - Lakeland Bush Plane (guy truex)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Second Chantz 'chute & Rotax engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
is there a difference between those installed on, say, a snowmobile and an
aircraft? >>
Hi,
for what its worth all Rotax engines in the UK have a sticker on them saying
that they are not approved for use in aircraft.
At a guess I would think they are all the same.
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
--
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flyin Driving Directions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
KY but
| neither mapping service recognizes this address. Anyone have
detailed
| directions coming from the south, say around the Knoxville, TN area?
|
| Also, do they have any showers on site or a creek nearby? ;
| ) Might get a little rank after a few days in this heat.
|
| Hoping to see all ya'll real soon.
|
| Fly Safely,
|
| Doug Lawton
Morning Doug/Gang:
Here's the driving directions:
http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/contact_us.html
After you click on "contact" and Mapquest, the following page will
pull up the map. Then zoom out on the map in clude I-75. The factory
is on the south side of Hwy 80 about 5 or 6 miles west of London and
I-75. Any problems finding it, call the factory and they can give you
detailed instructions.
There is a shower available plus food and free camping. I think food
will be available starting Friday through Sunday morning breakfast.
John W and I are departing for Steven Green's in Etowah, TN, this
morning. RON at Steven's, then do a nice low and slow tour of Smokie
Mountain National Park, among other places, and finally TNK Thursday
evening.
Hope everyone has a safe journey to the Kolb Homecoming.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 3
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| Subject: | Flyin Driving Directions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <rrodebush@tema.net>
....Time: 10:22:00 PM PST US
....From: "skyrider2" <skyrider2@earthlink.net>
....Subject: Kolb-List: Flyin Driving Directions
Coming North on I-75 take 80 (just north of London) West. Follow 80 for
about 8 to 9 miles and you will see a Kolb mailbox (red I think) on the
left side. Follow the road (bear right) up to the airport/factory.
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flyin Driving Directions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Doug,
Lemme try this..
From Knoxville go north on 75 to London...at the main street that will goes
uptown, (cant remember the name..maybe highway 80?) turn west an
drive..several miles, look for a sign on the south side just before a going
down a big ,big hill...this will be a small gravel lane...UPHILL...if you
have bald tires..dont go there...when you get up this Hill ..or mountian,
depending on where you are from, you will find the top of the mountian
shaved off flat and the Kolb strip and hangars. I am sure there is a creek
just west of the strip...but you cannot see it cause it is about 1/4 mile
about straight down..if you ever got down there you would probably need a
rope to get back! You cannot see the strip or any buildings from the
highway...tall timber everywhere and you would never believe there is
anywhere within 5 miles to land a chopper..let alone an airplane..so just
trust the signs!
IF you like chicken..this is the weekend to be there..some sort of World
chicken fest going on when TNK has their flyin...Colonel Sanders was from
there or something...Not to mention the and good food at Kolb...and awful
good company. These people really know how to put on a good time. More
homemade desserts than a church social, so bring your loose britches!!
Motel space is thin around there, due to the chicken gig...
If you cannot figure out which road goes west...just stop an ask...about
everybody knows where it is.
Don Gherardini
OEM.Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
Message 5
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| Subject: | : Kolb-List:Kolb Flyin Pics! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420@freescale.com>
John/John and gang,
Sure wish we could go to the Kolb fly-in, but not this year. Take lots of photos
to share with us less unfortunate on the list.
Be safe and have fun,
Tim Gherkins & Uncle Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flyin Driving Directions
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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| Subject: | Dave and Ed's landing opinions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: JUDD LYNN <juddlynn@sbcglobal.net>
Dear Dave, Ed, and all...
I've been reading your exchanges regarding the various ways to land an ultralight.
I'm sorry to see the comments getting kind of personal. Nevertheless, just
wanted to say that I learned a lot from reading both of your viewpoints, and
I'd be happy to take a lesson from either one of you!
Judd Lynn
Do not archive
Smoggy Los Angeles
Firestar just about together
Another Firestar kind of disassembled
Mk III thoroughly in pieces
Message 7
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| Subject: | Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: guy truex <airbosss@yahoo.com>
My name is Guy Truex. I built many Kolbs when I worked at Lakeland Ultralights
back in the early 90's. A friend and current Kolb list member recently sent me
a copy of a discussion on this list about Lakeland Ultralights, Jim Lee, his
aircraft and his accident.
Last night I wrote several pages about some aircraft we built at Lakeland Ultralights.
I intended to post it here today, but it's very long and I didn't want
to make it my first post. With permission from the list owner or moderator, I
will post it. It's basically a short history of the Kolb aircraft we built and
how they were modified.
-- Guy
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Hi all,
Quote from my newspaper today.
Aeroplane wings work better if they hum gently, according to University of South
Wales in Sydney. Pumping sound waves across them made planes wings produce up
to 22% more lift
Flexible plastic panels that vibrate to make sounds at the flick of a switch were
built into wing surfaces.
Pure tones produced the best results.
The engineer also tested the effects of playing music. "While I have not tested
a large selection of music, I can say that Spiderbait is more effective than
Radiohead"
Interesting Huh?
As I have never heard of either Spider bait or Radiohead I assume the they are
bands. I wonder why they didn`t try some bands that actually play music. Louis
Armstrong, Goodman,Miller, Dorsey...
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05@comcast.net>
Guy
I'm NOT the list moderator or owner but I think I speak for everyone by
saying that we would very much like to here all you have to say.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "guy truex" <airbosss@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: guy truex <airbosss@yahoo.com>
>
> My name is Guy Truex. I built many Kolbs when I worked at Lakeland
> Ultralights back in the early 90's. A friend and current Kolb list member
> recently sent me a copy of a discussion on this list about Lakeland
> Ultralights, Jim Lee, his aircraft and his accident.
>
> Last night I wrote several pages about some aircraft we built at Lakeland
> Ultralights. I intended to post it here today, but it's very long and I
> didn't want to make it my first post. With permission from the list owner
> or moderator, I will post it. It's basically a short history of the Kolb
> aircraft we built and how they were modified.
>
> -- Guy
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: singing wings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
I wonder why they didn`t try some bands that actually play music. Louis
Armstrong, Goodman,Miller, Dorsey...
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
Pat & All,
I read the same report. On page two it says they did indeed try different
kinds of music. Seems that Miller and Dorsey increased the glide ratio by
19%, Fifties Rock n' Roll increased speed by 21%, and Rap "music" caused the
wings to fall off.
AzDave
Do Not Archive
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Michael Sharp <kolbdriver@mlsharp.com>
Post Post Post!!
I look forward to reading them...
Do Not Archive...
guy truex <airbosss@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: guy truex
My name is Guy Truex. I built many Kolbs when I worked at Lakeland Ultralights
back in the early 90's. A friend and current Kolb list member recently sent me
a copy of a discussion on this list about Lakeland Ultralights, Jim Lee, his
aircraft and his accident.
Last night I wrote several pages about some aircraft we built at Lakeland Ultralights.
I intended to post it here today, but it's very long and I didn't want
to make it my first post. With permission from the list owner or moderator, I
will post it. It's basically a short history of the Kolb aircraft we built and
how they were modified.
-- Guy
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <ronoy@shentel.net>
I vote YES for the story. A big change from some of the argle-bargel
of late.
regards,
Bob N.
ronoy@shentel.net
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
Guy,
I for one would like to hear more about the LA story. And what are Rick and
Annette doing these days? And Paula, what is she doing, the girls Brittany
and ____ I guess they are about grown by now. And what became of the amphib
trike - I think it was a trike wasn't it that Jim displayed at SNF the last
year? I think there was a pretty amazing story about a 2nd Chantz chute
mishap. Funny, all I can remember is was an interesting story - but no
details come to mind any more.
Even as I was writing this, I am recalling a time when I was flying with Jim
at Conneaut Lake. We landed and then went to take off. Well the TS just
couldn't get its speed up. Jim looks around trying to figure out why it
won't accelerate. Here it turns out the gear was down.
On one of my visits, Jim prodded me in attempting to barefoot ski. I made
several attempts, but didn't make it up. When I got home, my legs were
almost one large bruise and I don't bruise easily. He took a video of my
ackward attempts and big splashes and had some great laughs afterward.
Yes ... please refresh my memory.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "guy truex" <airbosss@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: guy truex <airbosss@yahoo.com>
>
> My name is Guy Truex. I built many Kolbs when I worked at Lakeland
Ultralights back in the early 90's. A friend and current Kolb list member
recently sent me a copy of a discussion on this list about Lakeland
Ultralights, Jim Lee, his aircraft and his accident.
>
> Last night I wrote several pages about some aircraft we built at Lakeland
Ultralights. I intended to post it here today, but it's very long and I
didn't want to make it my first post. With permission from the list owner or
moderator, I will post it. It's basically a short history of the Kolb
aircraft we built and how they were modified.
>
> -- Guy
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex@msn.com>
I know and have spoken to Ron Marshall. He has told me some of the story,
mostly as it related to N28JL. It was a Mk-III.
LEBTF
Chuck S
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <ronoy@shentel.net>
I vote YES for the story. A big change from some of the argle-bargel
of late.
regards,
Bob N.
ronoy@shentel.net
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: singing wings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Pat, I had a plane that I had applied minimal paint to the wings during
a recover.
It flew like magic. I decided a few years later to change the paint
scheme and shot
some more on. -Lost the magic, just flew like ordinary. I believe that
vibration thing
might be valid. People say paint adds weight.. Out of a gallon of
paint, the vast
majority evaporates. The paint film on a kolb would be insignificant
in weight
but the flexibility changes with thickness.
-BB do not archive
On 21, Sep 2005, at 2:55 PM, pat ladd wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>
> Hi all,
> Quote from my newspaper today.
>
> Aeroplane wings work better if they hum gently, according to
> University of South Wales in Sydney. Pumping sound waves across them
> made planes wings produce up to 22% more lift
> Flexible plastic panels that vibrate to make sounds at the flick of a
> switch were built into wing surfaces.
> Pure tones produced the best results.
> The engineer also tested the effects of playing music. "While I have
> not tested a large selection of music, I can say that Spiderbait is
> more effective than Radiohead"
>
> Interesting Huh?
> As I have never heard of either Spider bait or Radiohead I assume the
> they are bands. I wonder why they didn`t try some bands that actually
> play music. Louis Armstrong, Goodman,Miller, Dorsey...
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Ditto
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Noyer" <ronoy@shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <ronoy@shentel.net>
>
> I vote YES for the story. A big change from some of the argle-bargel
> of late.
> regards,
> Bob N.
> ronoy@shentel.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Dave and Ed's landing opinions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com>
Judd, (Dave, Ed and all),
I second Judd's comments word for word! Its good to see such conviction for ones
believe on flying technique, and learning. This is how we all can learn. Thanks
to all for the honest expressions, and I too would happily take lessons from
either... anyone nere middle Tennessee??
Mike Schnabel
FSII 503 (0.5 hrs on the Hobbs)
do not archive
JUDD LYNN <juddlynn@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: JUDD LYNN
Dear Dave, Ed, and all...
I've been reading your exchanges regarding the various ways to land an ultralight.
I'm sorry to see the comments getting kind of personal. Nevertheless, just
wanted to say that I learned a lot from reading both of your viewpoints, and
I'd be happy to take a lesson from either one of you!
Judd Lynn
Do not archive
Smoggy Los Angeles
Firestar just about together
Another Firestar kind of disassembled
Mk III thoroughly in pieces
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com>
Guy, I think your getting our attention, and interests peaked... if and when you
can, please share your story. Thanks
do not archive
Denny Rowe <rowedl@highstream.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe"
Ditto
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Noyer"
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer
>
> I vote YES for the story. A big change from some of the argle-bargel
> of late.
> regards,
> Bob N.
> ronoy@shentel.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Kolb MkIII - Lakeland Bush Plane |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: guy truex <airbosss@yahoo.com>
The accident aircraft was registered as a Kolb MkIII, but there really wasnt much
Kolb left in that aircraft. Jim used to refer to the design as the Lakeland
Bush Plane although the three that flew were registered as Kolb MkIIIs.
History of the design:
I went to work for Jim Lee in February of 1993. He had a Kolb Twinstar that he
regularly flew. It had a Full Lotus mono-float and retractable gear that he had
developed. He was happy with the way it performed and he wanted to produce an
amphibious version of the Kolb. The Twinstar was no longer in production so
the MkIII was a natural place to start. He had a gear system that worked well
so all we had to do was fit it to the MkIII frame, make float mounts and make
sponson mounts.
Jim purchased MkIII kits. We modified the frames to accept the retract system and
we installed his quick install/quick release float mounts. It was a good system
that allowed a person to install or remove the Full Lotus mono-float in about
30 seconds. There was also a quick install/quick remove sponson mount that
worked just as well.
We would modify the MkIII kits and ship them to the builders. There were builders
that wanted fast build kits, so we provided fast builds if requested. We also
built a few complete planes.
Jim had an optional fuel tank mount that allowed three 5 gallon tanks to be installed
behind the seats. All three tanks had quick-disconnects and could be removed
very easily through a door. That option was popular.
Sometime during 1993, we built a complete MkIII for Jim. He wanted a luggage compartment
up front, so we made a new nose section. We thought it looked like a
shoe, but it served the purpose. When he was flying by himself, he could carry
items up front and still have the CG well within limits.
Jim flew a Titan one day and decided he liked the aluminum wings. The roll response
was quick and positive and he liked that. We built a set of aluminum wings
for Jims MkIII that used the Titan airfoil. The wings were strut braced just
like any MkIII. Jim was very happy with the handling.
Of course, after Jim had them, someone else wanted a set of aluminum wings. Jim
also wanted more room inside (I think I remember a tall customer) so we built
a fuselage that was two inches taller and built aluminum wings. Jim wanted to
get the horizontal tail surfaces up and away from the water. I designed a tail
with full flying horizontal stabilators mounted about a third of the way up
a swept aluminum vertical stabilizer. We shortened up the tail boom, which is
okay as long as there is enough tail volume. The purpose was to make the structure
stiffer which would provide more positive feel and control.
Jim and I had discussed the project quite a bit. We discussed the positive and
negative aspects of all design considerations. One of the design requirements
right from the beginning was that the aircraft had to have folding wings and it
had to fit in an enclosed trailer. The folding wing fittings were standard Kolb,
but the tail was completely different. We decided to make each stabilator
removable. The stabilators slid onto a round steel center section spar that rotated
in bearings. One bolt held each stabilator from sliding off the spar- great
so far. I dont remember what the horizontal span was. The aspect ratio was
in the normal range and it had plenty of area to provide stability and control
authority.
For some unknown reason, right before we flew the first one, Jim decided that he
wanted the planes to go into the trailer without removing the stabilators. I
shortened the stabilators and increased the chord to provide the area needed.
One of the results of that change was the necessity to provide more stabilator
travel. I was more than a little concerned about stalling the stabilators in
flight. Jim wasnt. He and I were the design team, but he was the boss, so he
made final decisions. We flew with the short span horizontals.
Three of the four kits were completed by June of 1995. At that time I resigned
and opened my own business. Jim and I parted on good terms.
In a conversation with Jim after I was no longer employed at Lakeland, he told
me that a Bush Plane owner complained to him about an abrupt loss of pitch control
at low speed. The pilot was able to recover, but it scared him. I told Jim
what I thought about the short horizontals, but wed had that conversation before.
Im sure Jim listened to me, but he chose to fly the Bush Planes the way
they were.
The crash:
We had a customer in Texas that had a Bush Plane. The owner/pilot also had an ATV.
After I left Lakeland Ultralights, this guy crashed his ATV and ended up in
the hospital for a long time. His wife called Jim and told him she didnt want
her husband doing anything else dangerous. Jim bought the plane back from her.
She had a person that was unfamiliar with airplanes tow the plane in an enclosed
trailer to Pennsylvania. The guy didnt tie the plane down very well or didnt
tie it at all and it sustained substantial damage during the trip. I visited
Lakeland Ultralights in February or March of 1997 and saw Jims crew working
on the damaged plane. It had been almost completely disassembled and it was
going back together with many new parts.
Jim took the plane to Sun n Fun in 1997. Thats where it was crashed. The accident
report can be seen at:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X07776&ntsbno=MIA97LA120&akey=1
There were three other Bush Planes. One never flew. Parts from that kit were used
to repair the accident aircraft after the trip from Texas.
I was told by a reliable source that one was converted to use a stock Kolb MkIII
tail.
I dont know where the other one is or if it is even flying. If it is, it shouldnt
be. My opinion is that the horizontal tail surface design is bad. The easiest
fix at this time would be to install a stock Kolb tail.
There were many Lakeland Ultralight modified Kolb MkIIIs built. I have flown them
and I think they are as safe as any MkIII. The addition of the mono-float and
retractable gear makes them feel a little heavier, but as long as the weight
and balance is within limits, all should be okay. Dont worry about those. Its
that one Bush Plane that needs attention.
Ill post a few shorter stories about Jim and the fun we had as I think of them.
-- Guy
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