---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/24/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:48 AM - Re: Suzuki Turbo G10 Weigh-In (GeoR38@aol.com) 2. 08:28 AM - Cooper Mini engine (Denny Rowe) 3. 09:02 AM - Re: Cooper Mini engine (robert bean) 4. 09:23 AM - elevavor trim (Chris Mallory) 5. 09:35 AM - Re: elevavor trim (HShack@aol.com) 6. 12:28 PM - Re: elevavor trim (ray anderson) 7. 01:44 PM - Re: elevavor trim (Al Colloredo) 8. 05:25 PM - Re: elevavor trim (ray anderson) 9. 07:01 PM - Re: Cooper Mini engine (Denny Rowe) 10. 07:03 PM - Re: elevavor trim (pengy@humboldt.net) 11. 07:05 PM - Re: Cooper Mini engine (Denny Rowe) 12. 07:26 PM - Re: Flyin Driving Directions (Beauford) 13. 08:16 PM - Re: elevavor trim (Richard Pike) 14. 08:30 PM - Re: elevavor trim (HShack@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:09 AM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Suzuki Turbo G10 Weigh-In --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 9/14/2005 1:36:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 13brv3c@bellsouth.net writes: ------------------------ I don't know about TNK, I had a bad dream last night where Big Lar handed me what looked like a baton, then flew away in a leaky MkIII. Richard Swiderski Do not archive This is good stuff, that Richman is a good writer. George Randolph firestar driver soon, I hope, in The Villages, fla ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:18 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Kolb-List: Cooper Mini engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Hi group, A while back I recall hearing something about someone using the engine from a Cooper Mini in an aircraft. I looked under the hood of one the other day and it got me to wondering if this is a popular conversion engine. Its a very small inline four cylinder that puts out 100hp. Anyone hear anything about these used in aviation? Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:22 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cooper Mini engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Was the block cast iron or aluminum? That would be the determining factor. Any all aluminum engine is a possible candidate. -BB, 1.6 rockin and rollin this morning, brisk from the NE 3.5 to go on my 40 do not archive On 24, Sep 2005, at 11:27 AM, Denny Rowe wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" > > Hi group, > A while back I recall hearing something about someone using the engine > from a Cooper Mini in an aircraft. > I looked under the hood of one the other day and it got me to > wondering if this is a popular conversion engine. > Its a very small inline four cylinder that puts out 100hp. > Anyone hear anything about these used in aviation? > > Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:16 AM PST US From: "Chris Mallory" Subject: Kolb-List: elevavor trim --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" Hello All, I have a trim question. I was having a problem with my Firestar II wanting to dive and bank left. Thanks to some great advice from Richard Pike, I solved the problem with the heavy forward stick by adjusting the aileron control rods. The problem that remains is the plane wanting to bank left, I have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem is not severe but annoying at least. I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder input doesn't correct it completely. What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the solution, could anyone advise me how to make and install one? Love "The List", Learn more every day. Chris Mallory ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:53 AM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: elevavor trim --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 9/24/2005 12:24:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, wcm@tampabay.rr.com writes: The problem that remains is the plane wanting to bank left, I have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem is not severe but annoying at least. I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder input doesn't correct it completely. What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the solution, could anyone advise me how to make and install one? Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near the middle [spanwise]. Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as necessary om the plane.. Works great. Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:28:57 PM PST US From: ray anderson Subject: Re: Kolb-List: elevavor trim --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson Just another thought about trim tabs. Sometimes one has to use one that is perhaps a little longer than usual. Through the years I have learned that it is easy to pull the tab loose from its attach point while trying to bend it along it's entire length. I usually cut through the width, up to the bend point, with a hacksaw blade. If a very long tab I will cut at two points equally spaced along the length. It is quite easy then to bend the segments one at a time, even with fairly stiff material. HShack@aol.com wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 9/24/2005 12:24:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, wcm@tampabay.rr.com writes: The problem that remains is the plane wanting to bank left, I have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem is not severe but annoying at least. I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder input doesn't correct it completely. What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the solution, could anyone advise me how to make and install one? Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near the middle [spanwise]. Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as necessary om the plane.. Works great. Howard Shackleford FS II SC --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:32 PM PST US From: Al Colloredo Subject: Re: Kolb-List: elevavor trim --> Kolb-List message posted by: Al Colloredo What size trim tab works the best. Lenght? / Width ? Thanks Al --- ray anderson wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > > Just another thought about trim tabs. Sometimes one > has to use one that is perhaps a little longer than > usual. Through the years I have learned that it is > easy to pull the tab loose from its attach point > while trying to bend it along it's entire length. I > usually cut through the width, up to the bend point, > with a hacksaw blade. If a very long tab I will cut > at two points equally spaced along the length. It > is quite easy then to bend the segments one at a > time, even with fairly stiff material. > > HShack@aol.com wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted > by: HShack@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/24/2005 12:24:10 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > wcm@tampabay.rr.com writes: > The problem that remains is the plane wanting to > bank left, I > have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem > is not severe but > annoying at least. > I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder > input doesn't correct it > completely. > What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the > solution, could anyone > advise me how to make and install one? > > > Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near > the middle [spanwise]. > Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as > necessary om the plane.. Works > great. > > Howard Shackleford > FS II > SC > > > > --------------------------------- > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina > relief effort. > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:17 PM PST US From: ray anderson Subject: Re: Kolb-List: elevavor trim --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson Al, Trim tabs don't seem to be critical in size. I have an aileron trim on my UltraStar and it is about 4" long and about 1-1/2" wide. Ray Al Colloredo wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: Al Colloredo What size trim tab works the best. Lenght? / Width ? Thanks Al --- ray anderson wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson > > > Just another thought about trim tabs. Sometimes one > has to use one that is perhaps a little longer than > usual. Through the years I have learned that it is > easy to pull the tab loose from its attach point > while trying to bend it along it's entire length. I > usually cut through the width, up to the bend point, > with a hacksaw blade. If a very long tab I will cut > at two points equally spaced along the length. It > is quite easy then to bend the segments one at a > time, even with fairly stiff material. > > HShack@aol.com wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted > by: HShack@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/24/2005 12:24:10 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > wcm@tampabay.rr.com writes: > The problem that remains is the plane wanting to > bank left, I > have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem > is not severe but > annoying at least. > I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder > input doesn't correct it > completely. > What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the > solution, could anyone > advise me how to make and install one? > > > Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near > the middle [spanwise]. > Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as > necessary om the plane.. Works > great. > > Howard Shackleford > FS II > SC > > > > --------------------------------- > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina > relief effort. > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:51 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cooper Mini engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Bob, The engine has a cast bottom end and aluminum heads, their web page says its 104 Kg, I am looking for a conversion table now. Denny Also don't know what all is included in that figure. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: elevavor trim From: pengy@humboldt.net --> Kolb-List message posted by: pengy@humboldt.net OK. I've now got a grand total of 17 dual hours in a Kolb Mk III. I can fly it, but landings are still iffy... So don't vamp on me too hard. I have been a life-long model builder (free flight, control line, rc), and I certainly know that trim tabs work. But they are often a kludge - covering up (as it were) a problem that could perhaps (I'm being careful here) be solved more elegantly. For example, in the present case under review, we have a aircraft with a slight left bank. Or course an aileron trim tab will solve the problem, but *why* the slight left bank? Alignment? Drooped left aileron? Heavy left wing? Maybe adding a bit of weight to the right wing would correct the problem without adding the additional drag of the tab. Again, I know tabs work and are very effective. They are also relatively easy and cheap to implement. Maybe (I'm suggesting) they are TOO cheap and easy to implement, and allow us to avoid trying to understand just why this darn airplane has this peculiar trait (whatever it is), and work up a more permanent and elegant solution than another piece of metal adding drag to correct the problem. Fire away. (I actually made a couple of decent landings today, feeling cockey...;-) Penguin > Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near the middle [spanwise]. > Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as necessary om the plane.. > Works great. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:38 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cooper Mini engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Bob others, OK scratch that engine from our list, 104 Kg equals 229.3 pounds. Ouch Thats a heavy little bugger. Denny ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:02 PM PST US From: "Beauford" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flyin Driving Directions --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" Doug... I just came from there today... is easy to find. Coming north on I-75, go to the northernmost London exit... that will be route 80... It is well marked... get off on route 80 westbound... go 8 miles or so... road starts as 4 lane... narrows to 2 lane.... re-widens to 4 lane, and a couple of grenade-throws later, you will see the signs on your left (south side of route 80) for the Kolb Fly-in... Hard to miss it... Enjoy... Beauford ----- Original Message ----- From: "skyrider2" Subject: Kolb-List: Flyin Driving Directions > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "skyrider2" > > Howdy, > > I sent the following message earlier this afternoon and it was returned > saying it was rejected by the Matronics Spam filter. > > So I'm trying it once more: > > Hi Guys, > > I was just checking driving instructions to the Flyin this weekend from > the > Mapquest and GoogleMap links on the TNK factory website. > > They list the factory address as: 8375 Russell Dyche Hwy., London, KY but > neither mapping service recognizes this address. Anyone have detailed > directions coming from the south, say around the Knoxville, TN area? > > Also, do they have any showers on site or a creek nearby? ; > ) Might get a little rank after a few days in this heat. > > Hoping to see all ya'll real soon. > > Fly Safely, > > Doug Lawton > NE Georgia & Whitwell TN > > Do Not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:10 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: elevavor trim --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike For some unknown reason, it seems all Kolbs with props that turn clockwise want to bank to the left and yaw to the right. I think it has something to do with the Coriolis Effect or maybe Sunspots.... Beauford should be able to give you a proper explanation... Anyway, trim tabs are a simple solution. Here are pictures of mine. http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg6.htm I need to update the web page, because there have been some upgrades: For the aileron trim tab, I now have RC airplane nylon hinges at either end of the trim tab so that when I move the adjuster rod, the tab doesn't bend, it hinges. I used large RC model airplane hinges, plenty tough for the application. I initially made my rudder trim tab a bit too large. Trimmed it down a bit top and bottom with metal snips. Now it tracks straight with no rudder pressure. Once you get the rudder and ailerons tabs set pretty close, it will get closer to flying hands off. But it will not fly hands off unless it has a lot more dihedral than standard. Our Firestar II N582EF will fly hands off, but it has about 5" of dihedral per wing, way more than standard. My MKIII has a bit more dihedral than standard, and it helps, but it will not fly hands off. Almost, but not quite. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 12:22 PM 9/24/05 -0400, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" > >Hello All, >I have a trim question. I was having a problem with my Firestar II wanting >to dive and bank left. Thanks to some great advice from Richard Pike, I >solved the problem with the heavy forward stick by adjusting the aileron >control rods. The problem that remains is the plane wanting to bank left, I >have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem is not severe but >annoying at least. >I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder input doesn't correct it >completely. >What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the solution, could anyone >advise me how to make and install one? > >Love "The List", Learn more every day. >Chris Mallory > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:20 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: elevavor trim --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 9/24/2005 4:45:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, alfi98596@yahoo.com writes: What size trim tab works the best. Lenght? / Width ? Thanks Al Make it wide enough to be able to rivet to two adjacent aileron "ribs". Make it about 4" deep & bend it length-wise in the middle. Start with maybe a 20 degree bend. Bottom of the right aileron. Howard Shackleford FS II SC