Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:42 AM - batteries (Ted Cowan)
2. 06:14 AM - Re: Michigan area Kolbers (woody)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: Battery for 503 Starter? (pat ladd)
4. 07:10 AM - Re: Battery for 503 Starter? (John Hauck)
5. 08:02 AM - kolb battery (b young)
6. 08:27 AM - 503 electric start (Lanny Fetterman)
7. 09:25 AM - Re: batteries (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
8. 09:52 AM - In flight restart with rope (Kirk Smith)
9. 12:28 PM - Re: batteries (Jim Baker)
10. 12:34 PM - Re: kolb battery (Jim Baker)
11. 07:18 PM - I'm back (survived Katrina) (John Cooley)
12. 08:00 PM - Re: kolb battery (Charlie England)
13. 08:06 PM - Re: I'm back (survived Katrina) (Denny Rowe)
14. 08:14 PM - Re: In flight restart with rope (woody)
15. 09:19 PM - Inflight pull start (Roger)
16. 09:35 PM - W&B (b young)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted Cowan <trc1917@direcway.com>
Here goes the mouth again. I need to comment on anyone using liquid
lead/acid bats in their plane. You gotta be kidding! The last post was
correct. There is very corrosive gases coming out no matter what they say
about porting. I had one explode in my face. Not a pleasant feeling. I
was lucky. Crank your engine kinda hard with the mags off and then feel the
bat. It will be warm to hot. This liquid oxygenates when used either by
charging or discharging. It can sulfite on you (rotten eggs smell) and then
it can explode. In any case, you can loose a cell real easy.
Another thing. Having been in the RC industry for forty years, gotta tell
you this: The charge rate of a normal bat. is approximately 10 percent high
charge and only (now, listen carefully) 1 percent on low charge or trickle.
Now, I am referring to AMPS, not Volts. I have found trickle charging
(float charging) usually works best at even lower. You dont charge the bat,
you merely keep it from discharging. You cannot keep a liquid type bat on
much of any charge for any period of time. It is kinda like a man staying
excited (you know who you are) for a month. The specific gravity of the
liquid goes crazy with so much oxygen and WILL burn it out. Now, I suppose
there are going to be a bunch of people who will tell me I am wrong so do
what you want. It might possibly be that a solar charging unit does not
have much amp charge and that is what you are looking at. You want the 12
volts but only about 1 percent of the TOTAL capacity of the bat Amp level
for float. I still think you will burn out a liquid or gel cell before its
time. Of course, if you are not using it much, it may seem better to charge
it like that than to let it go flat. Your choice, do the research. Just
cause someone who sells you a bat charger says you can, doesnt mean you
should. There are a bunch of those supposed 'float chargers' out there and I
will give you the two I have for RV and storage bats. Guaranteed to waste
your bat. good luck. I will use gel cells. If you want them to last the
longest, disconnect them when you are not using them. No current drain.
Ted Cowan, Alabama.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Michigan area Kolbers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
If you want to go south of Detroit and visit Canada I can show you 2
classics plus a damaged one and a Twinstar. Also have a complete Mk 3 kit.
Let me know when you are in the neighbourhood. I am house bound so will be
available all week
----- Original Message -----
From: "flykolb" <flykolb@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Michigan area Kolbers
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flykolb" <flykolb@carolina.rr.com>
>
> I'll be visiting in the areas just north of Detroit, MI next week and
would like to get together with any Kolb owners and/or flyers in that area.
>
> Either email me or call me on my cell at 704-661-7899 please with contact
info.
>
> Jim
> Mark III
> Charlotte, NC
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Battery for 503 Starter? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
<<I use the UltraStart-Red battery. It is small, compact, and weighs 4.4
pounds. It cost about $90.00 from any of the aircraft supply places. I've
been running my FSII with it for about a year and a half>>
Hi All ,
On my Challenger I have this piece of string with a handle on it. It weighs
an ounce or two. When I want to fly I just walk to the back of the plane and
just pull it. It came with the plane so it was no extra cost and it has
lasted for years and years and years.
I dont have to keep it charged and the time between flights doesn`t seem to
make any difference.
Recommended.
Cheers
do not archive
Pat
--
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Battery for 503 Starter? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
seem to
| make any difference.
Patrick/Gang:
How's aerial restarts? Work pretty good?
john h
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
What size, make and model battery should I get for my recently purchased TNK starter?
I've used motorcycle batteries in the past (in motorcycles) and they
only seemed to last a year.
--------------------------
for my mkIII I went to harbor freight and bought one of the "jump starts".....
it had a 17 amp hour sealed battery in it. the price of this was on sale for around
30.00 and has lasted for 2 years now and my first battery that I had used
was the same type and I got it used from an old ups (uninteruptable power supply)
... lasted 3 years. when I priced this type of battery from a supplier it
was 75.00 to 80.00 bucks..... I put my old battery in the jump start and it
works the air compressor and light.... it wont turn over a starter any more. also
the jump start had a battery charger in it that works for the battery it will
charge it till full then shut itself off.... you could remove it, and install
it in a project box.
lots of options for a small price.
boyd
Message 6
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| Subject: | 503 electric start |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Lanny Fetterman <donaho@csrlink.net>
Hi all, John you nailed it! I also like to be in the aircraft when it fires
up.( Not enough room in the FSII with a full enclosure to pull the little
white string). I saw what happens when you pull start with the throttle
open, and you are standing outside the airplane, at the flightfarm in Ny. A
Kolb really climbs with no pilot, But the cross country ability is only
about 150 yards. Really felt bad for that pilot. Have a Great day to all.
Lanny FSII A10LRF
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05@comcast.net>
Ted
I have a device called a Schumacher 1.5 amp automatic battery maintainer
with float mode monitoring. It has a indicator (led) that tells me when it
is charging the battery. This charger/maintainer has been connected to my
airplane battery continually (except for when the plane isn't in the hanger)
for three years and it hasn't destroyed my battery. After a short flight I
will plug in the maintainer and it will charge for around 15 minutes and it
will turn off. As the battery discharges it will occasionally cycle on to
maintain the charge. I have a master disconnect switch on the plane but as
most batteries do it will discharge on its own. The motorcycle style
batteries have a vent line that I run to the out side. I will consider
replacing the battery with a gel cell when this battery finally gives up but
for now I'm more concerned with the 10-17 gallons of fuel I carry. Besides
abusing the battery with something like a dead short or jumping the battery
with the crossed polarity I don't know of any battery ever exploding. No I
appreciate the warning but there is a danger in getting out of bed every
day, life has risks.
Also Pat I had a similar device on my direct drive VW. I would go to the
back of the plane and spin this wood fan blade. But it was inconvenient
having to tie the plane down and I worried about the prop biting me.
My $ .02 worth
Richard Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Cowan" <trc1917@direcway.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: batteries
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ted Cowan <trc1917@direcway.com>
>
> Here goes the mouth again. I need to comment on anyone using liquid
> lead/acid bats in their plane. You gotta be kidding! The last post was
> correct. There is very corrosive gases coming out no matter what they say
> about porting. I had one explode in my face. Not a pleasant feeling. I
> was lucky. Crank your engine kinda hard with the mags off and then feel
> the
> bat. It will be warm to hot. This liquid oxygenates when used either by
> charging or discharging. It can sulfite on you (rotten eggs smell) and
> then
> it can explode. In any case, you can loose a cell real easy.
>
> Another thing. Having been in the RC industry for forty years, gotta
> tell
> you this: The charge rate of a normal bat. is approximately 10 percent
> high
> charge and only (now, listen carefully) 1 percent on low charge or
> trickle.
> Now, I am referring to AMPS, not Volts. I have found trickle charging
> (float charging) usually works best at even lower. You dont charge the
> bat,
> you merely keep it from discharging. You cannot keep a liquid type bat on
> much of any charge for any period of time. It is kinda like a man staying
> excited (you know who you are) for a month. The specific gravity of the
> liquid goes crazy with so much oxygen and WILL burn it out. Now, I
> suppose
> there are going to be a bunch of people who will tell me I am wrong so do
> what you want. It might possibly be that a solar charging unit does not
> have much amp charge and that is what you are looking at. You want the 12
> volts but only about 1 percent of the TOTAL capacity of the bat Amp level
> for float. I still think you will burn out a liquid or gel cell before
> its
> time. Of course, if you are not using it much, it may seem better to
> charge
> it like that than to let it go flat. Your choice, do the research. Just
> cause someone who sells you a bat charger says you can, doesnt mean you
> should. There are a bunch of those supposed 'float chargers' out there and
> I
> will give you the two I have for RV and storage bats. Guaranteed to waste
> your bat. good luck. I will use gel cells. If you want them to last
> the
> longest, disconnect them when you are not using them. No current drain.
> Ted Cowan, Alabama.
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | In flight restart with rope |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
It's not really all that difficult to restart with the pull rope. I've attached
the rope on mine to the ballistic rocket. If the engine restarts, the spinning
prop will cut the chute cords and I can just keep flying merrily along. If
it don't restart I ride the chute down.......What's so hard about that?
Do not archive
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
> You cannot keep a liquid type bat on much of any charge for any
period
> of time. It is kinda like a man staying excited (you know who you
> are) for a month. The specific gravity of the liquid goes crazy with
> so much oxygen and WILL burn it out. Now, I suppose there are
going
> to be a bunch of people who will tell me I am wrong so do what you
> want.
Dang! Somebody ought to tell this to all the TelCos out there who
have massive battery rooms and batteries on charge continuously.
Guess they didn't know.....
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: kolb battery |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
> for my mkIII I went to harbor freight and bought one of the "jump
> starts"..... it had a 17 amp hour sealed battery in it. the price of
> this was on sale for around 30.00 and has lasted for 2 years
> I priced this type of battery from a supplier it was 75.00 to 80.00
> bucks
$48 or so for a 17.5 AH unit from Mouser electronics. 26 AH
available for about $10 more. Look for PowerSonic, "sealed" SLA
units...but be careful they don't explode or smell like rotten eggs.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 11
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| Subject: | I'm back (survived Katrina) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Gang,
Well I'm finally back on the cyber waves again. I don't normally post very
much so I know I wasn't missed as much as I missed reading all of your post
on a daily basis. I was without power for about 6 days and without the
telephone (dial up modem) for about a month. Didn't miss the telephone very
much, but sure did miss my daily dose of Kolb list.
Glad to see that Woody will be able to recover from his mishap. I always
cringe when I hear of someone having an airplane accident.
How was the Kolb Homecoming? I saw some post talking about going, but didnt
see any reports from the event. Did anyone take pictures to share with the
group?
Still have about 500 Kolb post to go to catch up.
P.S. For those interested the annual memorial "Shame Smith Octoberlite
fly-in" is the weekend of Oct. 22.
Ya'll take care,
John Cooley
Lucedale, Ms.
Do not archive
--
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: kolb battery |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
b young wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
>
>
>What size, make and model battery should I get for my recently purchased TNK
starter?
>I've used motorcycle batteries in the past (in motorcycles) and they
>only seemed to last a year.
>--------------------------
>
>for my mkIII I went to harbor freight and bought one of the "jump starts".....
it had a 17 amp hour sealed battery in it. the price of this was on sale for
around 30.00 and has lasted for 2 years now and my first battery that I had used
was the same type and I got it used from an old ups (uninteruptable power supply)
... lasted 3 years. when I priced this type of battery from a supplier
it was 75.00 to 80.00 bucks..... I put my old battery in the jump start and it
works the air compressor and light.... it wont turn over a starter any more.
also the jump start had a battery charger in it that works for the battery it
will charge it till full then shut itself off.... you could remove it, and install
it in a project box.
>
>lots of options for a small price.
>
>boyd
>
I'd 2nd that advice. A 17 AH sealed lead acid (SLA) battery will start a
360 cu in aircraft engine without any problem. One nice thing about SLA
batteries is that the 'self discharge' rate (losing charge while sitting
idle) is much slower than typical flooded cell batteries. If an SLA
battery is going down over just a few weeks of idle time, there might be
a slow current drain on the battery. You can get a cheap digital volt
meter with current measuring ability & put it in series with one lead of
the battery. With the switch off, there should be 0 amps showing on the
meter.
If you are ordering from a battery vendor instead of just buying a 'jump
start' pack, check for the internal impedance (should be around 10
milliohms or less) & be sure the terminals are the thick tabs with screw
holes. There are some SLA's that have the same AH rating but are
intended for much slower discharge rates than needed for engine starting
& the terminals (often just 1/4" push tabs) won't stand up to the
current required to start an engine.
For the 'gold standard' among big a/c engine users, google 'Odyssey
PC680' or PC625. (Just about any other brand will work fine & most will
be cheaper.)
Hope this helps...
Charlie
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: I'm back (survived Katrina) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Welcome back John!
Glad to hear you are alright.
Denny Rowe
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: In flight restart with rope |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Cept for the part where you have a kevlar bridal on the chute so it
dosen't get cut by the prop. Why would you pull the chute for a simple
engine out unless you have a major balance problem :<(
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: In flight restart with rope
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>
> It's not really all that difficult to restart with the pull rope. I've
attached the rope on mine to the ballistic rocket. If the engine restarts,
the spinning prop will cut the chute cords and I can just keep flying
merrily along. If it don't restart I ride the chute down.......What's so
hard about that?
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Inflight pull start |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Roger" <rphanks@grantspass.com>
Pat:
I've got one of those string start things too. Passed the inflight restart test
on the third flight (first pull). I did get a little nervous one thermally
day in Northern California though. I rode a big boomer up to 5000'agl and shut
the idling engine off to see if I could climb without it. I stayed in it long
enough for the engine to cool down, but forgot to pull the choke on. The extra
pulls required were aided by adrenaline, but my shoulders were sore for a
few days. Electronic ignition takes a pretty good spin to spark well.
Roger in Oregon
p.s. I did have a safe field under me before shutdown
Do Not Archive
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
i have sent out the quatro pro spreadsheet for W&B for all that have requested
it...... if i have missed any please let me know.
boyd
do not archive.
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