Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:53 AM - Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight (Mike Pierzina)
2. 05:28 AM - Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight (robert bean)
3. 06:39 AM - Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight (Dan Charter)
4. 09:18 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 10/15/05 (WillUribe@aol.com)
5. 10:08 AM - Fast Taxi (Mike Pierzina)
6. 11:48 AM - Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight (Jack B. Hart)
7. 02:35 PM - Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight (Chris Mallory)
8. 05:03 PM - Re: Second fuel pump 912S (David Kulp)
9. 05:26 PM - Re: Second fuel pump 912S (robert bean)
10. 07:25 PM - Re: Second fuel pump 912S (Robert Laird)
11. 07:48 PM - Re: Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) (John Hauck)
12. 08:10 PM - Re: Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) (Robert Laird)
13. 08:42 PM - Re: Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) (John Williamson)
14. 08:58 PM - Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight (Richard Pike)
15. 10:54 PM - Re: Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) (Jim Baker)
16. 11:07 PM - Re: Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) (Robert Laird)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hey Guys,
A little crosswind 5-10 mph , not a problem.....Drove up to Cambridge
Airport (MN) it's in my Flight Test Area
Met some NICE people....everybody that I met there was nice...
Set-up my plane and after assembly, while I was doing my preflight, I had a
notepad and I made a check list....
I tried to use other peoples to make "mine" but I think it was better to walk around
it and make notes....
First Flight was NONEVENTFUL, second flight "had it's moments"
First thing wrong , last week I took some advise and turned up my idle to 2000-21000
, Ralph said it was a good idea.
That was fine "last week" because I was on grass, this week I was on an asphalt
runnway....It wanted to taxi TOO fast
I had to "back taxi" on runway 34 so I couldn't just stop and adjust it till I
got to the end where the "run up" area was...
so I used my brakes alot and checking that they weren't getting hot.
OK, take off was different then last week.....First flight I was gently on throttle....barely
power to fly...checking things
out...then gently adding power and climbing out.....
This week , I added power to take off.....(no pussy footin around)....what "I"
thought was going to be a GRADUAL increase in power , was in fact was a rocket
launch.....She torqued on me a little , I caught it, and it wasn't long after
that
and I was airborn..... I'm not trying to do space shuttle launches.....But shes
a "home sick angel"
This time I planned to fly for 1 hr, and I wore gloves....last time my throttle
hand was getting cold.....
although this time gave me a chance to get cold VERY WHERE ELSE....( cockpit inclosed
on the "ta do list" )
I took some pictures , I mested with my GPS , I got a good chance to look around
the plane and check things out.
I noticed that my Lift Struts kinda vibrate and shake a little from the wind...
I cut the flight short, after 45 min, this ol California boy was cold..... So,
I entered the pattern , I made my calls on the
radio , but I'm still not sure if it's working right....anyway, heres the EXCITING
part.....as I'm turning Base for 34 , I turned
my head to look at the runway and my hat caught some wind and was taking my headset
with it.....OH Crap,
I reached up and stopped everything from getting blown back , I had to put my
hat under my leg , and I got my headset
back on ......Now I don't have the wind protection of my hat ( the windshield
sags alittle ) and the wind it swirling
around my glasses and making my eyes water.....Oh Crap....Well, I'm turning my
head and blinking trying to land
the plane....thinking , I don't need this....
My first landing was close to perfect.....this one was good , but I could have
flown it a little lower....I wasn't close to bending gear....and it didn't
bounce , I guess that first landing will be hard to "top" .....although I'd say
I was a Little
Distracted this time.....
Gotta Fly...
Mike
in MN
Do not Archive
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down...
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Sounds like fun Mike, except for the cold part. Bungees are essential
equipment
for any partial canopy airplane. Throw that useless baseball cap away.
All they're
good for is keeping the sun out of your eyes. Maybe an old fashioned
Rocky-the-
flying-squirrel flying helmet would be good in MN. A snug knit cap
pulled down
over your ears won't fly off.
Jackets should have a snug knit cuff and pants can be tied at the
bottom (maybe
velcro?) to keep from freezing your valuables. Gloves of course.
I have logged a bunch of time in long johns and snowmobile boots even in
a standard antique taildragger. -not that ambitious anymore.
-BB do not archive
On 16, Oct 2005, at 7:53 AM, Mike Pierzina wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
> A little crosswind 5-10 mph , not a problem.....Drove
> up to Cambridge Airport (MN) it's in my Flight Test Area
> Met some NICE people....everybody that I met there was nice...
>
> Set-up my plane and after assembly, while I was doing my preflight,
> I had a notepad and I made a check list....
> I tried to use other peoples to make "mine" but I think it was better
> to walk around it and make notes....
>
> First Flight was NONEVENTFUL, second flight "had it's moments"
>
> First thing wrong , last week I took some advise and turned up my
> idle to 2000-21000 , Ralph said it was a good idea.
> That was fine "last week" because I was on grass, this week I was on
> an asphalt runnway....It wanted to taxi TOO fast
> I had to "back taxi" on runway 34 so I couldn't just stop and adjust
> it till I got to the end where the "run up" area was...
> so I used my brakes alot and checking that they weren't getting hot.
>
> OK, take off was different then last week.....First flight I was
> gently on throttle....barely power to fly...checking things
> out...then gently adding power and climbing out.....
>
> This week , I added power to take off.....(no pussy footin
> around)....what "I" thought was going to be a GRADUAL increase in
> power , was in fact was a rocket launch.....She torqued on me a little
> , I caught it, and it wasn't long after that
> and I was airborn..... I'm not trying to do space shuttle
> launches.....But shes a "home sick angel"
>
> This time I planned to fly for 1 hr, and I wore gloves....last time
> my throttle hand was getting cold.....
> although this time gave me a chance to get cold VERY WHERE ELSE....(
> cockpit inclosed on the "ta do list" )
>
> I took some pictures , I mested with my GPS , I got a good chance to
> look around the plane and check things out.
> I noticed that my Lift Struts kinda vibrate and shake a little from
> the wind...
>
> I cut the flight short, after 45 min, this ol California boy was
> cold..... So, I entered the pattern , I made my calls on the
> radio , but I'm still not sure if it's working right....anyway, heres
> the EXCITING part.....as I'm turning Base for 34 , I turned
> my head to look at the runway and my hat caught some wind and was
> taking my headset with it.....OH Crap,
> I reached up and stopped everything from getting blown back , I had
> to put my hat under my leg , and I got my headset
> back on ......Now I don't have the wind protection of my hat ( the
> windshield sags alittle ) and the wind it swirling
> around my glasses and making my eyes water.....Oh Crap....Well, I'm
> turning my head and blinking trying to land
> the plane....thinking , I don't need this....
> My first landing was close to perfect.....this one was good , but
> I could have flown it a little lower....I wasn't close to bending
> gear....and it didn't bounce , I guess that first landing will be hard
> to "top" .....although I'd say I was a Little
> Distracted this time.....
>
> Gotta
> Fly...
>
> Mike in MN
>
> Do not Archive
>
>
> My Web Site:
> http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
>
>
> Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the
> way down...
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dan Charter" <lndc@fnbcnet.com>
Sounds like everything went as expected. You flew the plane and well at
that. After you get used to a slow taxi, You'll speed things up with the
throttle. I'm able to back taxi at the private strip that I'm on at 20 mph
if I want to. I would listen to what Ralph has to say about a Kolb
Firestar. He's got just a few more hrs in one than the average person. Do
not archive.
Dan Charter
FS1
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
> A little crosswind 5-10 mph , not a problem.....Drove up
to Cambridge Airport (MN) it's in my Flight Test Area
> Met some NICE people....everybody that I met there was nice...
>
> Set-up my plane and after assembly, while I was doing my preflight, I
had a notepad and I made a check list....
> I tried to use other peoples to make "mine" but I think it was better to
walk around it and make notes....
>
> First Flight was NONEVENTFUL, second flight "had it's moments"
>
> First thing wrong , last week I took some advise and turned up my idle to
2000-21000 , Ralph said it was a good idea.
> That was fine "last week" because I was on grass, this week I was on an
asphalt runnway....It wanted to taxi TOO fast
> I had to "back taxi" on runway 34 so I couldn't just stop and adjust it
till I got to the end where the "run up" area was...
> so I used my brakes alot and checking that they weren't getting hot.
>
> OK, take off was different then last week.....First flight I was gently
on throttle....barely power to fly...checking things
> out...then gently adding power and climbing out.....
>
> This week , I added power to take off.....(no pussy footin
around)....what "I" thought was going to be a GRADUAL increase in power ,
was in fact was a rocket launch.....She torqued on me a little , I caught
it, and it wasn't long after that
> and I was airborn..... I'm not trying to do space shuttle launches.....But
shes a "home sick angel"
>
> This time I planned to fly for 1 hr, and I wore gloves....last time my
throttle hand was getting cold.....
> although this time gave me a chance to get cold VERY WHERE ELSE....(
cockpit inclosed on the "ta do list" )
>
> I took some pictures , I mested with my GPS , I got a good chance to
look around the plane and check things out.
> I noticed that my Lift Struts kinda vibrate and shake a little from the
wind...
>
> I cut the flight short, after 45 min, this ol California boy was
cold..... So, I entered the pattern , I made my calls on the
> radio , but I'm still not sure if it's working right....anyway, heres the
EXCITING part.....as I'm turning Base for 34 , I turned
> my head to look at the runway and my hat caught some wind and was taking
my headset with it.....OH Crap,
> I reached up and stopped everything from getting blown back , I had to
put my hat under my leg , and I got my headset
> back on ......Now I don't have the wind protection of my hat ( the
windshield sags alittle ) and the wind it swirling
> around my glasses and making my eyes water.....Oh Crap....Well, I'm
turning my head and blinking trying to land
> the plane....thinking , I don't need this....
> My first landing was close to perfect.....this one was good , but I
could have flown it a little lower....I wasn't close to bending gear....and
it didn't bounce , I guess that first landing will be hard to "top"
.....although I'd say I was a Little
> Distracted this time.....
>
> Gotta Fly...
>
Mike in MN
>
> Do not Archive
>
>
> My Web Site:
> http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
>
>
> Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way
down...
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 10/15/05 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Greetings Mike
You did a good thing, keep flying the airplane. I know the feeling about
flying with the short wind screen. I used to lower my head below the slipstream
so not to make my eyes water. Now adays when I do use the short wind screen I
wear goggles over my glasses and a comtronics helmet.
Regrads,
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX but working in Davenport, Iowa
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Pierzina
Subject: Kolb-List: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina planecrazzzy@yahoo.com
(SNIP)
I reached up and stopped everything from getting blown back , I had to put
my hat under my leg , and I got my headset
back on ......Now I don't have the wind protection of my hat ( the
windshield sags alittle ) and the wind it swirling
around my glasses and making my eyes water.....Oh Crap....Well, I'm turning
my head and blinking trying to land
the plane....thinking , I don't need this....
My first landing was close to perfect.....this one was good , but I could
have flown it a little lower....I wasn't close to bending gear....and it
didn't bounce , I guess that first landing will be hard to "top" .....although
I'd
say I was a Little
Distracted this time.....
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hi Dan,
The problem with it taxi ing too fast is it would start bouncing and
hopping.....It might be those cheap tires
I noticed before how out-of-round they were......
I guess at 20 mph I would be flying the tail.....is that the kind of taxi your
talking about ?
I'm at a GA airport , I don't want to be looking like I'm careless , they always
say Taxi as fast as a BRISK walk
OK that might be just a little too slow.... I'm in no hurry , I'm having fun ,
tension up the neck FUN
Gotta Fly...
Mike
in MN
Do not Archive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
After you get used to a slow taxi, You'll speed things up with the
throttle. I'm able to back taxi at the private strip that I'm on at 20 mph
if I want to. Dan Charter
FS1>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down...
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Pierzina
>To: List Kolb
>Subject: Kolb-List: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina planecrazzzy@yahoo.com
>
>around my glasses and making my eyes water.....Oh Crap....Well, I'm turning
>my head and blinking trying to land
>the plane....thinking , I don't need this....
Mike,
This brings back memories. At first I flew with out goggles. I mistakenly
thought that with large lens glasses my eyes would be well protected. But I
was wrong. On take off in the fall, I flew through a cloud of nats. One of
them hit the bottom of the lens and stayed there except for one wing. It
flew up and into my eye. It made for an interesting trip around the pattern
with eyes watering, blinking to try and get the wing out of my eye, keep the
wings level and figure out where I was going.
It made me a believer in always wearing goggles.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" <wcm@tampabay.rr.com>
Mike,
Congratulations on the handling of your first flights.
The exact thing (minus the hat) happened to me on my first flight in my
firestar.
It's not like you don't have enough to do without juggling your headset and
glasses to keep them out of the prop.
Chris Mallory
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
> A little crosswind 5-10 mph , not a problem.....Drove up to
> Cambridge Airport (MN) it's in my Flight Test Area
> Met some NICE people....everybody that I met there was nice...
>
> Set-up my plane and after assembly, while I was doing my preflight, I
> had a notepad and I made a check list....
> I tried to use other peoples to make "mine" but I think it was better to
> walk around it and make notes....
>
> First Flight was NONEVENTFUL, second flight "had it's moments"
>
> First thing wrong , last week I took some advise and turned up my idle to
> 2000-21000 , Ralph said it was a good idea.
> That was fine "last week" because I was on grass, this week I was on an
> asphalt runnway....It wanted to taxi TOO fast
> I had to "back taxi" on runway 34 so I couldn't just stop and adjust it
> till I got to the end where the "run up" area was...
> so I used my brakes alot and checking that they weren't getting hot.
>
> OK, take off was different then last week.....First flight I was gently
> on throttle....barely power to fly...checking things
> out...then gently adding power and climbing out.....
>
> This week , I added power to take off.....(no pussy footin
> around)....what "I" thought was going to be a GRADUAL increase in power ,
> was in fact was a rocket launch.....She torqued on me a little , I caught
> it, and it wasn't long after that
> and I was airborn..... I'm not trying to do space shuttle launches.....But
> shes a "home sick angel"
>
> This time I planned to fly for 1 hr, and I wore gloves....last time my
> throttle hand was getting cold.....
> although this time gave me a chance to get cold VERY WHERE ELSE....(
> cockpit inclosed on the "ta do list" )
>
> I took some pictures , I mested with my GPS , I got a good chance to look
> around the plane and check things out.
> I noticed that my Lift Struts kinda vibrate and shake a little from the
> wind...
>
> I cut the flight short, after 45 min, this ol California boy was cold.....
> So, I entered the pattern , I made my calls on the
> radio , but I'm still not sure if it's working right....anyway, heres the
> EXCITING part.....as I'm turning Base for 34 , I turned
> my head to look at the runway and my hat caught some wind and was taking
> my headset with it.....OH Crap,
> I reached up and stopped everything from getting blown back , I had to put
> my hat under my leg , and I got my headset
> back on ......Now I don't have the wind protection of my hat ( the
> windshield sags alittle ) and the wind it swirling
> around my glasses and making my eyes water.....Oh Crap....Well, I'm
> turning my head and blinking trying to land
> the plane....thinking , I don't need this....
> My first landing was close to perfect.....this one was good , but I
> could have flown it a little lower....I wasn't close to bending
> gear....and it didn't bounce , I guess that first landing will be hard to
> "top" .....although I'd say I was a Little
> Distracted this time.....
>
> Gotta Fly...
>
> Mike in MN
>
> Do not Archive
>
>
> My Web Site:
> http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
>
>
> Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way
> down...
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Second fuel pump 912S |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Kulp" <undoctor@rcn.com>
It's ironic that the subject of fuel pumps has come up now. Just last weekend
the head of the maintenance department of the trucking co. I drove for for 30
years visited me. I am nearing completion of the rebuilding of my Ultrastar and
he had a problem with the Mikuni fuel pump. His reasoning was, with a vacuum
fuel pump, all it would take would be a small leak to suck air and shut off
the engine. (The engine shutting off and bending the front of my aircraft is
the reason for the rebuild) He feels an electric pump in the tank pushing the
fuel would be much safer, since a leak would push fuel out at the leak rather
than sucking air in. My first thought about fuel spraying out of a leak in
the fuel system, though, is fire. That's the one thing even a BRS would have
a tough time saving us from.
So, what are the thoughts of all you seasoned builders and fliers??
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Second fuel pump 912S |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Dave, I can't say anything about the mikuni vac pump because I don't
have one,
but my facet is located at or near the same level as the bottom of the
tank.
Even with a small leak it would continue to draw gas, however I would
notice
the stink. There is no stress on the suction line and because it is
rubber it
would tend to seal itself (temporarily) if a defect started.
The pressure side to the carb is a different story. Even at 2-4 lbs
max it should
be replaced at some kind of interval. Thanks for making me consider it.
-BB, 3 cyl suzuki, single solex downdraft, one pump, single ignition,
one brain and one heart
do not archive
On 16, Oct 2005, at 8:00 PM, David Kulp wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Kulp" <undoctor@rcn.com>
>
> It's ironic that the subject of fuel pumps has come up now. Just last
> weekend the head of the maintenance department of the trucking co. I
> drove for for 30 years visited me. I am nearing completion of the
> rebuilding of my Ultrastar and he had a problem with the Mikuni fuel
> pump. His reasoning was, with a vacuum fuel pump, all it would take
> would be a small leak to suck air and shut off the engine. (The
> engine shutting off and bending the front of my aircraft is the reason
> for the rebuild) He feels an electric pump in the tank pushing the
> fuel would be much safer, since a leak would push fuel out at the leak
> rather than sucking air in. My first thought about fuel spraying out
> of a leak in the fuel system, though, is fire. That's the one thing
> even a BRS would have a tough time saving us from.
>
> So, what are the thoughts of all you seasoned builders and fliers??
>
> Dave Kulp
> Bethlehem, PA
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Second fuel pump 912S |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
My $0.02... I would strongly suggest that all fuel lines be replaced
with "racing car" quality Gates fuel line, with heat-shielding in the
proper places. Properly installed, you'll probably never have to
worry about replacing them, ever, much less a pin-hole leak. I'll
never trust the plastic tubing again... they don't hold up, hard to
tell when they go bad, and can collapse and/or get pin-holes which
cause no end of problems. If you do decide to stay with the plastic
stuff, please be sure to replace it once a year, whether it APPEARS to
need it or not.
Also, I always have had a 2nd fuel pump -- a Facet -- primarily to
pressurize the system prior to start up, but also for takeoffs and
landings, just in case.
Now, having said that, it should be noted that adding a 2nd fuel pump
adds complexity, but done right can add safety, too. The check valves
in the Facet fuel pump CAN go bad (ask me how I know) so that's a good
example where a piece of "safety equipment" can cause problems. The
other issue is how to run the lines... if you run them in serial and
something goes wrong on either pump, the backup may not do you much
good. If you run them in parallel, you may have to add check valves,
which adds more complexity and points of failure. So, there is no
simple answer. Redundancy is good, but only if it doesn't add a point
of failure that would bring you down.
No simple answers...
-- Robert
P.S. I would also strongly suggest you cap off anything that could
cause an electrical arc if gasoline comes in contact with it... like
the connections on the starter motor, for one. I used liquid plastic
and coated them heavily.
On 10/16/05, robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> Dave, I can't say anything about the mikuni vac pump because I don't
> have one,
> but my facet is located at or near the same level as the bottom of the
> tank.
> Even with a small leak it would continue to draw gas, however I would
> notice
> the stink. There is no stress on the suction line and because it is
> rubber it
> would tend to seal itself (temporarily) if a defect started.
> The pressure side to the carb is a different story. Even at 2-4 lbs
> max it should
> be replaced at some kind of interval. Thanks for making me consider it.
> -BB, 3 cyl suzuki, single solex downdraft, one pump, single ignition,
> one brain and one heart
> do not archive
> On 16, Oct 2005, at 8:00 PM, David Kulp wrote:
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Kulp" <undoctor@rcn.com>
> >
> > It's ironic that the subject of fuel pumps has come up now. Just last
> > weekend the head of the maintenance department of the trucking co. I
> > drove for for 30 years visited me. I am nearing completion of the
> > rebuilding of my Ultrastar and he had a problem with the Mikuni fuel
> > pump. His reasoning was, with a vacuum fuel pump, all it would take
> > would be a small leak to suck air and shut off the engine. (The
> > engine shutting off and bending the front of my aircraft is the reason
> > for the rebuild) He feels an electric pump in the tank pushing the
> > fuel would be much safer, since a leak would push fuel out at the leak
> > rather than sucking air in. My first thought about fuel spraying out
> > of a leak in the fuel system, though, is fire. That's the one thing
> > even a BRS would have a tough time saving us from.
> >
> > So, what are the thoughts of all you seasoned builders and fliers??
> >
> > Dave Kulp
> > Bethlehem, PA
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| The check valves
| in the Facet fuel pump CAN go bad (ask me how I know) so that's a
good
| example where a piece of "safety equipment" can cause problems.
| -- Robert
|
| P.S. I would also strongly suggest you cap off anything that could
| cause an electrical arc if gasoline comes in contact with it... like
| the connections on the starter motor, for one. I used liquid
plastic
| and coated them heavily.
Hi Robert L/Gang:
Would you please expand on the "Facet fuel pump CAN go bad" please.
What goes bad? How does it affect the rest of the fuel system?
Also would like to learn more about sealing connections on the starter
motor with liquid plastic. Why do you do this?
Thanks,
john h
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
> Hi Robert L/Gang:
Hi John....
Ok, you don't know it but you're asking me to bare my soul... so, here goes...
> Would you please expand on the "Facet fuel pump CAN go bad" please.
> What goes bad? How does it affect the rest of the fuel system?
One day I took off from my field and I was at about 200 feet when the
engine died... (this was my first, and only (so far), engine out). I
shoved the nose forward immediately, aimed straight at the ground,
then flared at the last second and came to a smooth landing a few
moments later. Lucky for me, the area beyond the end of the runway
was without trees or any obstacles, and the grass wasn't too high. As
soon as I landed, I started the engine right up, then taxi'd back to
the runway proper. After another pre-flight and lot of
head-scratching, I decided to try the takeoff again, and this time it
was without event.
But... as I flew around later that day, I noticed on the fuel flow
meter that my flow rate was only just slightly above what I normally
need for flow during cruise. This was much lower than normal -- and
not enough for sustained high RPMS, as during a takeoff -- but high
enough for mid- to low-cruise sustained flight. It's been a while
since this happened, so I don't have the numbers handy, and I could go
into excruciating detail, but I don't want to bore anyone.
The point is, my fuel flow meter was basically telling me that I had
some kind of restriction in my fuel line, between the tank and the
carbs. It took me a full day of diagnosing everything that it could
be to turn up the culprit: the Facet fuel pump. A little more
investigating and I determined that when the Facet pump was NOT turned
on, it restricted the flow to a fair degree. If I turned it on, the
fuel would flow just fine. (At this point in my flying career, I
hadn't yet convinced myself to use the Facet for anything except
emergencies. It was only after this episode that I started using it
religiously on takeoffs and landings, and sometimes for entire
flights. Someone told me that, if you leave a Facet on all the time,
it's MTBF is 12 years or something like that.)
So, the checks valves in the Facet were causing the problem. I
replaced the Facet with another new one, and the problem was solved.
So, a Facet can cause problems, but I'd like to think of my incident
as rare, particularly since I hadn't heard of anyone else ever having
this problem.
> Also would like to learn more about sealing connections on the starter
> motor with liquid plastic. Why do you do this?
Because I once had a splash of gasoline -- from a pin-hole in a
plastic line that looked good -- hit the starter motor once while
starting the engine, and, well, you never saw me move so fast to get
the extinguisher out! It was this experience that convinced me to use
Gates fuel line and to "cap" off any possible elements that could
cause a spark. Of course, if gas got INTO the starter motor, it would
probably ignite, so my use of liquid plastic on the electrical
connectors was probably just symbolic, but I certainly felt better
after doing it. Using the Gates fuel line is the real solution to
this possibility, since it mostly eliminates the possibility.
-- Robert
Message 13
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| Subject: | Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
Robert and all,
Interesting story!
Facet makes several styles of fuel pumps:
>Solid-State Type with nylon valve and plunger
>Solid-State Type with anti-siphoning valve
>Interrupter Type Pump with anti-siphoning valve
Hopefully everyone is flying their Kolb with a Solid-State type pump that
does not have an anti-siphoning valve.
I use a Facet No. 40105 on the Kolbra and it stays on during all air
operations.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 964 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1
kolbrapilot2@comcast.net
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Saturday / 2nd Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
This brings back memories...
There is a flyer in SW Virginia who has a Kolb, & this worthy was starting
to get a bit thin on top, so he bought a toupee. But it tended not to stay
put. So he had some implant surgery (are you ready for this?) and had some
snaps installed in his scalp. With snaps installed in his scalp and in his
toupee, he could now wear his toupee anywhere and have full confidence that
his rug would stay in place.
Anyway, one fine day he went flying in his open air, short windshield MKII
and everything was going fine, he had his headset on and was tooling along,
until the wind got under the headset and began to lift it up.
Unfortunately, the headset got hung on the rug and began to lift it also.
Being a pusher type airplane, you know what happened next - headset and rug
lift off and go back through the prop. The prop sort of survived, at least
enough to get him back to the strip, but then he had to go looking for the
headset/toupee, and what was worse, he had to ask the rest of the airport
bums to go help him look. (which delighted them no end - Good Ol' Boy with
scalp snaps & No Rug going around looking for a Search Team was a sight to
behold, or so I'm told...)
Did not find either the headset or the rug, and the headset was the cheaper
of the two to replace... had to buy a new rug... saw it last month... looks
terrible...
Moral to the story - hats, rugs, and headsets need to be well anchored, or
you will be fodder for endless stories, none of which are intended to make
you look better....
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 04:53 AM 10/16/05 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
<snip>
>..anyway, heres the EXCITING part.....as I'm turning Base for 34 , I turned
> my head to look at the runway and my hat caught some wind and was taking
> my headset with it.....OH Crap,
> I reached up and stopped everything from getting blown back , I had to
> put my hat under my leg , and I got my headset
> back on ......Now I don't have the wind protection of my hat ( the
> windshield sags alittle ) and the wind it swirling
>around my glasses and making my eyes water.....Oh Crap....Well, I'm
>turning my head and blinking trying to land
>the plane....thinking , I don't need this....
> My first landing was close to perfect.....this one was good , but I
> could have flown it a little lower....I wasn't close to bending
> gear....and it didn't bounce , I guess that first landing will be hard to
> "top" .....although I'd say I was a Little
> Distracted this time.....
>
> Gotta Fly...
>
>Mike in MN
>
>Do not Archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@telepath.com>
> Someone told me that, if you leave a Facet on all the time,
> it's MTBF is 12 years or something like that.)
Probably true. Conelec, a Purolator/Facet competitor that went out of
business long ago, had similar electronic pumps running for well
over four years, continuously.
> So, the checks valves in the Facet were causing the problem. I
> replaced the Facet with another new one, and the problem was
solved.
Now, just to be certain, was the Facet part number the same for the
replacement as the failed unit? A Facet is not a Facet is not a Facet.
Some come with and without Quiet Valves (68db or so), check
valves, and positive shutoff valves. This is not to dispute your
analysis but rather to make others aware that there are differences
not limited to pressure ratings.
As an aside, Facet also makes a really nice integral filter fuel pump
but the pressures run max/min at 11/9. Sure is a nice unit tho.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Second fuel pump 912S (and electrical security) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>
> > So, the checks valves in the Facet were causing the problem. I
> > replaced the Facet with another new one, and the problem was
> solved.
>
> Now, just to be certain, was the Facet part number the same for the
> replacement as the failed unit? A Facet is not a Facet is not a Facet.
> Some come with and without Quiet Valves (68db or so), check
> valves, and positive shutoff valves. This is not to dispute your
> analysis but rather to make others aware that there are differences
> not limited to pressure ratings.
Yes. I can't tell you the exact type, but I do remember ordering the
new one by reading the part number off the old one. (And the one that
failed worked flawlessly for over two years before it (semi)failed...
and I had the fuel flow meter on the plane for about a year before the
pump failed, so I was very familiar with what they nominal readings
were. If it wasn't for the fuel flow meter, I doubt I could have
figured it out in one day.)
-- Robert
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