---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/27/05: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:36 AM - Re: EIS lag/FADEC controls (robert bean) 2. 08:50 AM - Two or three questions (David Kulp) 3. 09:16 AM - Re: fuses (woody) 4. 09:16 AM - Re: fuses (woody) 5. 10:03 AM - Re: fuses (bryan green) 6. 11:24 AM - Re: fuses (pat ladd) 7. 02:39 PM - Re:Two or three questions (Mike Pierzina) 8. 02:59 PM - Re: EIS EGT lag? (Richard Pike) 9. 06:40 PM - Re: Re: EIS EGT lag? (John Hauck) 10. 06:44 PM - fan belt (WADE LAWICKI) 11. 08:23 PM - Re: Two or three questions (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 12. 11:09 PM - Test (blure2@comcast.net) 13. 11:15 PM - Re: Test (Robert Laird) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:11 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EIS lag/FADEC controls --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean The early predator UAV had a FI 914 which could easily be adapted to the 912. Some of those engines have shown up occasionally on ebay. -BB do not archive On 26, Oct 2005, at 11:22 PM, Jim Baker wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > >> Don't say I said it, but I heard a rumor last weekend that there was > a >> fuel injected 912 series engine in the very near future of Rotax. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:44 AM PST US From: "David Kulp" Subject: Kolb-List: Two or three questions --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Kulp" Hello, Folks. I've got two questions for you. First, what are the acceptable CG parameters for an Ultrastar? Perhaps they would be the same as a Firestar, so knowing that may answer my question. Second, does anyone know of a complete fuel gauge system (sending unit & gauge, or maybe some sort of coffee urn type of sight gauge or even one which may work through the tank cap) which could be retrofitted to a 5 gallon poly tank which is about 10" deep? An alternative I've considered is a flow meter which could be installed inline which would accurately record the amount of fuel which was drawn past. I'd appreciate any feedback from all. Many thanks, Dave Kulp Do Not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:10 AM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuses --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" > > To misquote my MG repair manual "Lucas was the anti-christ". > I prefer LUCAS Prince of darkness. To link British cars and Kolbs.. Think of my Rotax 503 like the MG > engine. Neither is leaking oil, they are just marking their territory. Ever notice how many friends don't invite you back if they think you will park in their driveway? > > Charlie, Mk2 in NJ > > > Do Not Archive > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:28 AM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuses --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" > That would work, but why would you want to do that? > Bryan Green Elgin SC > > Because it is to nice a car to become a burned out hulk. Because there is a tendancy to short out and cause a fire. I think adding extra fuses farther down the line may interupt the electrical flow before it becomes a major fire. That is my hope and intention anyway. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:41 AM PST US From: bryan green Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuses --> Kolb-List message posted by: bryan green If the wire burns before the fuse blows the fuse is over sized or the wire is under sized for the load and fixing this problem would be best. IMHO Bryan Green Elgin SC Do not archive woody wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" > > > > >>That would work, but why would you want to do that? >>Bryan Green Elgin SC >> >> >> >> > > > Because it is to nice a car to become a burned out hulk. Because there is >a tendancy to short out and cause a fire. I think adding extra fuses farther >down the line may interupt the electrical flow before it becomes a major >fire. That is my hope and intention anyway. > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:34 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuses --> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" ( sorry Pat but this car does not live up to the high esteme the world holds it to). Ha, you must have a Jaguar. Only politicians and scrap metal dealers use them over here. Pat do not archive -- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:39 PM PST US From: Mike Pierzina Subject: Kolb-List: RE:Two or three questions --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Pierzina >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. I've considered is a flow meter which could be installed inline which would accurately record the amount of fuel which was drawn past. I'd appreciate any feedback from all. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I went with the miZer..........Fuel Flow , Fuel Gauge ....in Aircraft Spruce Catolog ( $300 bucks ) Gotta Fly... Mike in MN My Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down... --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:45 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: Re: EIS EGT lag? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Back on Saturday I sent an email to Greg Toman of Grand Rapids Technologies asking him about the EIS/EGT situation. Figured that instead of acting like a bunch of aborigines sitting around the campfire, wondering how the Great Iron Bird actually flew, why not go ask the Bwana himself? Here is my question, and his reply. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" Subject: EIS EGT lag? I have an EIS/EGT question prompted by a remark made today on the Kolb e-mail list: "Michael (great guy) said "We have had in our club alone 7 engine outs (can't remember the time frame) and not one was detected by the EIS in terms of EGT" Please don't quote me on that but you get the jest as to why I paid attention. He further explained why. The EIS lags the actual readings of the EGT's by 30 seconds to 1 minute. He also added that the problem is not the EIS unit it's self but the probes that send the EIS this info." -End of pertinent post - Would you comment on this please? Is this just an urban legend, or is there something to this that I might need to be aware of? I am using the 2002 model on a Rotax 582, 65HP, dual EGT's. Thank you, Richard Pike His answer: This sounds like an urban legend that has its roots in an advertisement that is run by another EGT instrument manufacturer (JPI). JPI advertises how fast their probes are, and compares them to Electronics International, who uses an ungrounded (and thus somewhat thermally insulated) EGT probe. My guess is that someone heard about this, and assumed we used slow responding, ungrounded probes. (Actually, I think JPI exaggerates their claim.) In any event, the EIS uses grounded probes. These probes respond very quickly, much more quickly than the piston, for example. When an engine is damaged, it is because the piston gets so hot, it expands until it wont fit in the cylinder, or melts a hole it in. Our EGT probe will respond much quicker than the piston (the EGT probe is a 1/8" diameter probe...the pistion is a big chunk of metal). But, it is possible to have an engine quit without exceeding any limits. Just turn off the ignition, or the fuel, and this will happen, or if the engine breaks (like a crankshaft). I hope that helps a bit. For two-stroke engine, the most likely way to damage them is getting them too lean, and running them that way for too long, and the EGT will detect this every time. If you have analog gauges you are not likely to be looking at them when this occurs, but with alarms (like the EIS has) you are quite likely to notice, and have plenty of time to take corrective action. Thanks Greg Toman Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc 616 245-7700 fax 616 245-7707 www.grtavionics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:13 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: EIS EGT lag? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" advertisement | that is run by another EGT instrument manufacturer (JPI). | damage them is getting them too lean, and running them that way for too | long, and the EGT will detect this every time. If you have analog gauges | you are not likely to be looking at them when this occurs, but with alarms | (like the EIS has) you are quite likely to notice, and have plenty of time | to take corrective action. | | Thanks Greg Toman | Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc Hi Richard/All: I am sure Greg Toman is a very knowledgeable man, knows his EIS's and two strokes. I surely would not debate that. Mike Highsmith is also very knowledgeable, flying many, many hours with two strokes over the last 20+ years. Mike is no urban legend. I think the jest of this whole debate is lag in pilot's reaction and corrective action should the EGT's scream out of the green. I personally do not think the warning light, blinking digital digits, or zipping analog needles will catch a seizure in time to do anything about it, unless.........................one has been running their two stroke for a long time at near critically high EGTs and that thin film of oil between piston and cylinder wall is broken. If that is the case and one may be able to catch that before failure, ok. But if one has been monitoring his instruments, no matter what kind he is using, he would also know he has a high EGT problem and should have stayed home and on the ground rather than be up there where he is with a two stroke that is about to puke. What Greg says, "If you have analog gauges | you are not likely to be looking at them when this occurs, but with alarms | (like the EIS has) you are quite likely to notice, and have plenty of time | to take corrective action.", is only one scenario of the dreaded two stroke seizure. There are so many others that his EIS will not be able to warn and give the pilot plenty of time to take corrective action. Partially blocked fuel filters, or any partial fuel blockage, a prop pitched to light for engine and aircraft, stuck ring, and immediate blow by happens fast! I don't want to belabor the point, but old fashioned gauges and EIS alike work, but they aren't going to prevent too many two stroke seizures. OK, gang. The above is my own humble opinion based on flying two strokes for the first major part of my UL experience. Was only a short five and a half years, but somehow I crammed 1,140 two stroke flying hours into it. Then another 224 hours in 5 months of flying the MKIII powered by the 582. Got my first and last seizure on the 582 in September 1993. john h MKIII - 2,411.0 hours 912ULS - 1,065.1 hours ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:15 PM PST US From: WADE LAWICKI Subject: Kolb-List: fan belt --> Kolb-List message posted by: WADE LAWICKI can anyone tell me the fan belt size for a 503 points engine thanks, wade do not archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:09 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Two or three questions --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com Dave buy a Navman Fuel monitor from Boaters World I use one and like it very much Because I cant see my fuel tank from the seat and I always have a bit of fuel left even when it says I am empty which is a good thing Firestar in Maine Ellery Batchelder Jr do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:45 PM PST US From: blure2@comcast.net Subject: Kolb-List: Test 1.53 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO --> Kolb-List message posted by: blure2@comcast.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:10 PM PST US From: Robert Laird Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Test --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird Got your test. -- Robert do not archive On 10/28/05, blure2@comcast.net wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: blure2@comcast.net