Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:12 AM - Highlight Two (Matt Dralle)
2. 02:13 AM - Re: The Do N*t Archive Flag and List Content... (pat ladd)
3. 03:46 AM - Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru (pat ladd)
4. 04:23 AM - Re: so sue me! (N27SB@aol.com)
5. 07:16 AM - Re: Web Pages (russ kinne)
6. 07:37 AM - XXXX (Vic Peters)
7. 11:18 AM - Re: so sue me! (pat ladd)
8. 12:34 PM - Re: so sue me! (Dana Labhart)
9. 12:37 PM - q (russ kinne)
10. 12:52 PM - Re: MKIII Xtra Speeds (Silver Fern Microlights Ltd)
11. 01:03 PM - Re: Do N*t Archive Flag... (Matt Dralle)
12. 01:03 PM - Re: so sue me! (woody)
13. 02:04 PM - Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru (Silver Fern Microlights Ltd)
14. 02:35 PM - Re: MK lll Trim (Jim Ballenger)
15. 03:01 PM - Re: MKIII Xtra Speeds (Denny Rowe)
16. 05:39 PM - Mark III Crash (James Tripp)
17. 05:46 PM - Re: MKIII Xtra Speeds/MKIIIc Speeds (John Hauck)
18. 05:50 PM - Re: so sue me! (Larry Bourne)
19. 06:10 PM - Re: Mark III Crash (Kolbdriver)
20. 06:18 PM - Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru (John Hauck)
21. 07:30 PM - My Mark III, not a crash (roger lee)
22. 07:38 PM - Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru (Denny Rowe)
23. 07:43 PM - Re: My Mark III, not a crash (Larry Bourne)
24. 07:45 PM - Re: My Mark III, not a crash (John Hauck)
25. 08:01 PM - Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru (John Hauck)
26. 08:30 PM - Re: Mark III Crash (ghaley@wt.net)
27. 09:11 PM - Re: Mark III Crash (roger lee)
28. 09:11 PM - My Mark III, not a crash (possums@mindspring.com)
29. 09:14 PM - Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru (Denny Rowe)
30. 09:27 PM - Re: My Mark III, not a crash (Denny Rowe)
31. 09:39 PM - Re: Web Pages (Larry Bourne)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of the Email List Forums at Matronics. There is no
commercial advertising on any of the Lists to support their
operation, and it is solely YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS that keeps these Lists
up and running. Please take a second to make your Contribution today
at the secure website:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Below is a highlight of another one of the awesome Free Gifts
available along with this year's List Fund Raiser. In most cases,
these gifts have been either donated or provided at exceptional
discounts by aviation vendors that participate regularly on these
vary same Lists. I want to thank each of them for the generous
support of the Lists during this Fund Raiser. Please show your
support for their efforts by visiting their respective web sites.
Thank you for your kind support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Gift Highlight Number Two - Mechanics's Toolbox CD - Builder's Bookstore *
With your $60 or greater List Contribution, you can register to
receive a free copy of the 2005 edition of John Schwaner's Mechanic's
Toolbox CD. It is essentially a computerized version of the
Mechanic's Handbook, and highlights the needs of powerplant
technicians working with reciprocating engines. The CD contains two
basic sections. The first is a mechanics guide to inspecting,
troubleshooting and operating Lycoming and Continental engines. The
second is a Mechanic's Toolbox offering many of the most useful items
typically found in printed Mechanic's Handbooks and a few other handy
items not found anywhere else. Works with Windows 98, ME, NT, 2000, XP.
To receive your copy, visit the List Contribution Web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
* This gift is provided by Andy Gold of The Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com/
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: The Do N*t Archive Flag and List Content... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
if people are using the Do N*t Archive flag often, they might do well to
reconsider the content they are posting to the hundreds of people subscribed
to the List...>>
Sorry Matt,
I do not think that is the problem.
If we only posted items worth archiving we would miss all those great posts
about First flights, Hello messages from new members, welcome messages,last
flight before winter, who played guitar at the fly-in etc
Most of the posts are items of immediate interest and legitimate subjects
for discussion which nobody will care about in a years time. Surely that is
the breakpoint between `to archive, or not to archive`
At the moment stuff goes into the archive just because the lister forgot to
add the magic words.In other words, by default.
Stuff like `there is a FF on Ebay built by Bill Bloggs in Scranton in 1956`
does anyone know anything about it` is a perfectly sound query which will
have no interest to anyone a few weeks down the line.
A post about `How I fitted floats on my Mark 3` could be invaluable and
should be kept for future reference.
Most people can make the distinction and mark their posts accordingly.
Just make the default work the other way.
No archive instruction. No archive
Not really a complaint, Matt, I think the list works well under you `non-
interference policy, just a minor niggle.Thanks for all you work.
do not archive
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
I believe I heard the 912 was not approved for use on your homebuilt
aircraft in Great Britain.>>
Hi John,
Not so. The Eurostar, to name only one, probably the most popular ultralight
of its type in the UK has a 912.
I was in a Eurostar partnership for a year or so before I started on the
Kolb route and found it a great engine, However it is heavier and more
expensive than the Jabiru and as weight is the limiting factor defining an
ultralight over here that tells against it.
Kiwimick can give you details of comparison of maintenance schedules etc but
the main tappets adjustment is only about once a year after the initial run
in.
Of course I know all the answers. I haven`t flown the damn thing yet....
Pat
do not archive
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 11/15/2005 3:34:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
njlabhart@kih.net writes:
I haven't read the posts about passenger liability, but I do have
some personal insight on law suits. I was just a gnat's butt away
from being sued. I really don't understand why I wasn't. Things
I would advise...
Have insurance.
Have a will.
Make sure you have survivorship on your house deed.
Have an attorney draw up a release for passengers to sign.
As a builder, you will always be liable.
Hope this helps someone.
Dana Labhart
do not archive
Hi Dana, Glad to hear things went well.
Steve Boetto
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
BigLar
Enjoyed your pix of the Okefenokee -- and glad to see you caught your
best profile in that self-timer shot.
I canoed & camped there years ago, sleeping in a jungle hammock. Great
place! Even saw a possum at midnite -- must have been POGO!
A most entertaining website. Do you plan one on a nudist camp
sometime??
Best,
Russ
DNA!
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
Matt
This is not a complaint either but I must agree with Pat do archive would work
better for most, since I in particular can't even remember what I had for breakfast.
I actually like the idle gossip and name calling. It makes me feel so much better
about myself. Some times its the most exciting thing I do all day.
I'm surprised the recent angry name caller hasn't been approached by an Al Qaeda
sleeper cell to recruit him.
My delete button is on my mouse, fast and convienient.
Vic Peters
m3xtra (list has confused me as to whitch engine to use now, Jab or Volks)
Millinocket ME
XXX
XXXX
do not archive
DNA
Up M's B
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Things I would advise...>>
Hi Dana,
sounds as though you have had some experience here.
I wasn`t thinking from the point of view of product liability which might
come into play if you built something which failed.
Over here that would come under the general trading rules that what you sell
must be `of merchantable quality and fit for the purpose for which it is
sold`.
I was just wondering about the liability arising from just taking a friend
or a relative for a flight.
As Groucho said `Blood may be thicker than water but it ain`t thicker than
money`
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dana Labhart" <njlabhart@kih.net>
<<"I was just wondering about the liability arising from just taking a friend
or a relative for a flight.">>
That is the liability I am talking about. That is
what Norm did. Just take someone for a flight.
Doo-doo happens. Then bang. Law suit. Best
to be prepared no matter what.
Dana Labhart
do not archive
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Kolbers
Recently I sent a message to Matt Dralle suggesting changes to the "do
not archive" flag, and signed it "Thanks from us all". I was, perhaps
quite rightly, chastised for this; i.e, representing that I was
speaking for "all" of the Kolbers. Of course I wasn't, it was a poor
choice of words on my part, and I apologize to anyone who was offended.
But Matt: I still think this flag could be made easier to use, and I
notice in your posts you spell it:
"Do N*t Archive" and sometimes "do n*t archive". What would you
prefer us to use? Everyone seems to say "do not archive" and I
assume that works.
I do think Pat Ladd's idea of making it active, not passive, is a good
one. Only the posts worth archiving would be signed "archive", or even
just "A". But it's up to you; it's your list and your decision.
I for one am very grateful you keep this up & active & running and
useful to me at least.
I won't speak for anyone else.
Russ Kinne
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII Xtra Speeds |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Rick, the speeds I quoted for the Jab/Xtra with a Rpm of 2600, this is quite
economical. If I run it at 2800 I get 80kt which is approx 90 mph, full
power 3100 gives about 93 kt, this is with a Prince P-Tip 62"x38".
What Rpm is a 912 pulling at 90mph?.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05@comcast.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: MKIII Xtra Speeds
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
> <NeilsenRM05@comcast.net>
>
> I see in the literature that the Xtra is 10MPH faster than the classic.
> What
> are those of you that have the Xtra actually seeing, with say a Rotax
> 80HP?
> What about wheel pants do they help any? I know our planes aren't designed
> to go fast but at our speeds every little bit helps. It becomes much more
> of
> a concern when you are flying with a group that have 100HP engines in
> their
> Kolbs.
>
> The attached report with a 85HP Jabru indicates the same speeds or
> slightly
> slower than the standard 80HP Rotax in a classic. I have been saying high
> RPM direct drive engines take more HP to get the same thrust. Is this a
> conformation or isn't the Xtra any faster than the classic.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aero Vee Engine Kit
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd"
>> <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
>>
>> Hi John,
>> The AeroVee is a great engine and Sonex are excellent to deal with
>> however
>> I
>> do not think it will work too well on the Xtra.
>> I still feel the best option is the new Jab2200 (85hp).
>> I have just completed a 2300 mile trip around France displaying the Xtra.
>> The average air temp was 35 degC.
>> At Max weight it is climbing at 800 fpm, cruising at 70-75kt, there are
>> no
>> over heating problems on this engine at all, I have even done a full
>> power
>> climb from sea level to 6000' with no probs. I think it is quieter than a
>> 912 just as smooth, more economical, it is lighter and cheaper and as
>> reliable.
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Do N*t Archive Flag... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
At 12:36 PM 11/16/2005 Wednesday, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
>Kolbers
><...>
>"Do N*t Archive" and sometimes "do n*t archive". What would you
>prefer us to use? Everyone seems to say "do n*t archive" and I
>assume that works.
>I do think Pat Ladd's idea of making it active, not passive, is a good
>one. Only the posts worth archiving would be signed "archive", or even
>just "A". But it's up to you; it's your list and your decision.
>I for one am very grateful you keep this up & active & running and
>useful to me at least.
>I won't speak for anyone else.
>Russ Kinne
The phrase "do n*t archive" is case INsensitive so any combination will work such
as Do N*t Archive, DO n*t ARCHIVE, Do N*T aRcHiVe, etc. will all function as
required. I used the stars (*) in the strings above and in the past so that
I could refer to it, but so that it would still go into the archive.
Regarding the usage of the Do N*t Archive flag. Keep in mind that its an automated
process that detects the presence of the string "do n*t archive" in the message
text and appends or not to the archive depending on whether or not it finds
it.
I find it really amazing that people have suggested that using the flag is somehow
difficult...? Its just three little words. Sufficiently unique that they
won't ever normally be typed in a message. Intuitive enough that most will be
able to remember what it is. Come on guys, if you can build and fly an airplane,
you can type three words to indicate that your message shouldn't be appended
to the archive.
Reversing the logic on the "do n*t archive" flag such that messages will ONLY be
archived if the flag is entered, sounds great, but experience has shown that
about one message a month ends up in the archive using that logic; that's useless.
For as many people as don't remember to added the "do n*t archive" flag
when they should, WAY more people don't remember to add a "do archive" flag to
messages of long-term interest.
Really, I don't think the problem is what the string is or what the logic is.
The bottom line is there are certain messages that should be archived for the
rest of eternity, and some that should not. Just use common sense. Frankly,
hard drive space is sufficiently affordable now that the size of the archive really
isn't that big of a deal anymore. Searching through it, however, becomes
more difficult. That being said, using some creative searching strings, I have
always been able to find anything I've been looking for using the search engine.
Let's put this whole topic to bed and just get back to airplane discussions.
Matt Dralle
Airplane Builder and Flyer and List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Molt Taylor said it best. Have them sign a guarantee that flying will kill
or seriously injure them. If something happens then you fulfilled the
guarantee. If nothing happens they should try harder. If they are afraid to
sign they are not the people you want flying with you.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
All,
I agree with John H when you compare Kolb's and 912 or Jab 2200, but only
when you are comparing the OLD Jabs like John W had.
Just to name a few of the changes to the new ones.
OLD NEW
76 hp 85hp
small heads & valves big heads & valves
manual adjust valves hydraulic adjust valves
small carb big carb
integral fuel plenum seperate fuel plenum
simple oil sump revised oil sump
aluminium con rods steel con rids
I have never had heating probs(oil or cht) while stationary, at a show early
this year while on a demo flight I was stuck on the ground for 20 mins while
waiting for take off, air temp as 32 degC.
I have found the Kolb Jab combo is prone to prop selection to obtain the
best performance.
I have flown a 912 Classic and it was fine but I felt that the revs were
higher than the Jab, noise higher than the Jab, weight higher than the Jab,
fuel burn higher than the Jab, Bulkier installation than the Jab, more
expensive than the Jab, no faster than the Jab, left the ground slower than
the Jab. However the climb performance was better than the Jab by about
250fpm (mine climbs at about 800fpm at 1000lbs and 650-700 @1150lbs). There
is no doubt that the 912 is a great engine and I can use it over here on the
Xtra but I decided to choose the Jab.
There is no comparison between the old and the new Jabs, I have flown a
Savannah with a old Jab and one the new and you could instantly feel the
difference.
The new Jab is now as low a maint engine as the 912 but without the water
radiator and hoses, gearbox, and seperate oil tank, plus the Jab only has
one carb to worry about, so I guess there is a little less to go wrong (in
theory anyway). I have even flown mine in some very heavy rain, left it out
in the rain while away on trips with no issues.
I have only been to 13000 feet above sea in G-CDFA and I must admit she was
feeling the lack of air, I think it would only go to about 15-16000. The 912
would probably be better at these heights I think.
Please do not get me wrong I am not knocking the 912 but there is just no
comparison between the old and new Jabs. I think it comes down to how big
your wallet is and personal preference.
The Kolb is such a great aircraft with either of these engines.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>
>
> I think it is quieter than a
> as
>
>
> Hi Mike/Gang:
>
> Good to hear from our neighbor across the pond.
>
> Sorry, but I feel the best option for the MKIIIx is the 912ULS and
> then the 912UL. Unfortunately, I have no experience flying the Jabiru
> on a Kolb. However, I have had the opportunity to fly my buddy John
> W's wing many hours when his Kolbra was powered by a Jabiru. Our
> cruise speeds were about the same. However, take off and climb out,
> there was no comparison between his Jabiru powered Kolbra and my
> 912ULS powered MKIIIc. Remembering, the Kolbra, MKIIIc, and the
> MKIIIx, all utilize the same wing section, if we don't include
> ailerons and flaps. All that changed when John W saw the light and
> installed a 912ULS on his Kolbra. Woe is me. I am now left in his
> dust, on take offs and cruise. Amazing, the difference in performance
> between the two power packages.
>
> It is not unusual for John W and I to take off and climb WOT for one
> or two hours while crossing the Rocky Mountains. We do not
> necessarily find it necessary to seek out passes to cross most any
> mountain range in the Lower 48, Canada, or Alaska. Out in the Western
> part of the US, field elevations are usually over 6,000 feet. The
> field elevation of our Monument Valley Flyin airstrip is around 6,000
> feet. Normal altitude for crossing the Rockies is 14,000 to 15,000
> feet MSL. I might add, on take off my MKIII is pushing 1,200 lbs take
> off weight.
>
> I think the prop dictates the degree of "smoothness" in our engines.
> Warp Drive props do a really good job in this area. They also seem to
> be maintainence free. Once I get mine dialed in, there isn't anything
> else to do but fly.
>
> I mentioned I have never flown a Jabiru powered aircraft, so I don't
> have any experience except what I have observed. One morning in
> particular comes to mind. There were five of us on a flight to Kitty
> Hawk, NC. We spent the night at Wallace, NC, not far from the
> Atlantic Ocean. The airport was locked solid in fog and very heavy
> due when we got out of our tents the next morning. When we got ready
> to crank and depart for Kitty Hawk, all the Rotax powered aircraft, to
> include one 582, fired up, waiting for the engine oil temps to hit
> 120. The one Jabiru powered Kolbra seemed to have a slight problem.
> Would not start. Absolutely did not fire the first time. Seems the
> heavy moisture laden air had caused condensation in the two
> distributor caps of the Jabiru. John W had to pull them both, dry
> them out, then we were ready to proceed on our flight.
>
> From what I read, the Jabiru is a far more maintenance intensive
> engine than the 912 series engines. That for me is a negative point.
> On some of my longer flights I would have to take time off to adjust
> valves, retorque heads, etc. These maintenance items arre not
> required by the 912's.
>
> I believe I heard the 912 was not approved for use on your homebuilt
> aircraft in Great Britain. This means you must use another power
> system. I do not think any power system that does not utilize a power
> reduction system will ever match the performance of the 912 series
> engines.
>
> Please understand I am not trying to pick your engine apart, but
> simply proud to tell folks about my power plant, showing differences
> between the two.
>
> I do not know if you have flown a Kolb with a 912UL or a 912ULS. No
> comparison to anything else available.
>
> john h
> MKIII - 2,400+ hours
> 912ULS - 1,050+ hours
> 912UL - 1,135+ hours
> 582 - 220 hours
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
Larry
Let me know how many rpms you pick up with the new pitch. I am hoping this
weekend will bring some good flying weather.
Jim Ballenger
MK III X 582
Virginia Beach, VA
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <Cat36Fly@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK lll Trim
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Cat36Fly@aol.com
>
> Jim:
>
> Added a tab to the elevator today (probably much bigger than I need) that
> I
> can trim down. Also repitched my prop down to 9 degrees from 9.5. Now I'm
> waiting for the winds to die. It blew a ton up here today so there was no
> flying.
>
> Larry Tasker
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII Xtra Speeds |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd"
> <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> Rick, the speeds I quoted for the Jab/Xtra with a Rpm of 2600, this is
> quite
> economical. If I run it at 2800 I get 80kt which is approx 90 mph, full
> power 3100 gives about 93 kt, this is with a Prince P-Tip 62"x38".
> What Rpm is a 912 pulling at 90mph?.
>
> Mike
> -----
Kolbers,
Just thought I would point out to all that the Jab 2200 that Mike is flying
is the second generation 2200.
John W had the earlier model on his Kolbra as I recall and many say those
early Jabs were nowhere near 80hp, the new Jabs claim 85hp and have much
better cooling cylinder heads.
Luray Weactor has the newer Jab on his Slingshot as does Will Tatham on his
Mk-3 extra, both are ecstatic about their performance, also these engines
seem to perform best with good old wood props.
The simplicity of the 2200 installation is very attractive.
That said, the 912 will always have a performance edge do to the gearbox.
If you have the coin, these two are your very best choices bar none.
Someday I hope to hang a 2200 on my bird, but for now I have kids to raise.
:-)
Fly safe.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3,, 2SI 690L-70, PA
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
Hey Listers,
Does anyone know anything about the Mark III crash over the weekend listed
below? I'm not sure if this is even a Kolb or not as there could be more
than one brand of Mark III.
James Tripp
FSII, Millbrook AL
DO NOT ARCHIVE
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 515AB Make/Model: MARK Description: MARK III CLASSIC
Date: 11/04/2005 Time: 1530
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Substantial
LOCATION
City: TUCSON State: AZ Country: US
DESCRIPTION
ACFT SUSTAINED SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE DUE TO A POSSIBLE IN-FLIGHT STRUCTURAL
FAILURE OF THE LEFT HORIZONTAL STABILIZER BRACKET WHILE ON DOWNWIND TO
AIRPORT, TUCSON, AZ
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: MKIII Xtra Speeds/MKIIIc Speeds |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
is quite
| economical. If I run it at 2800 I get 80kt which is approx 90 mph,
full
| power 3100 gives about 93 kt, this is with a Prince P-Tip 62"x38".
| What Rpm is a 912 pulling at 90mph?.
|
| Mike
Hi Mike/Gang:
My MKIII flies 90 mph (78 kts) at 5,200 rpm. That's calibrated
airspeed.
However, it is an 85 mph airplane, no matter what it is powered with,
582, 912, 912S.
5,500 rpm is 95 mph and very uncomfortable.
Again, the best speed for my airplane is 85 mph. Anything over 90 mph
and you are wasting hp.
john h
Message 18
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I'm very curious as to what almost happened to Norm ?? Maybe just my
so-called memory, but all I remember seeing is that he was *almost* sued,
but not why or the circumstances. This is of particular interest to me,
'cause I take a lot of people for rides, and with the fall cooling of
Furnace Springs, I'm about to get busy again. I'm somewhat of a believer in
CYA. Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Labhart" <njlabhart@kih.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: so sue me!
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dana Labhart" <njlabhart@kih.net>
>
> <<"I was just wondering about the liability arising from just taking a
> friend
> or a relative for a flight.">>
>
> That is the liability I am talking about. That is
> what Norm did. Just take someone for a flight.
> Doo-doo happens. Then bang. Law suit. Best
> to be prepared no matter what.
>
> Dana Labhart
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kolbdriver" <Kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>
Here's a little more info:
N-number : N515AB
Aircraft Serial Number : 101553
Aircraft Manufacturer : LEE ROGER
Model : MARK III CLASSIC
Aircraft Year :
Owner Name : LEE ROGER W
Owner Address : 9531 E LOCHNAY LN
TUCSON, AZ, 85747-9283
Type of Owner : Partnership
Registration Date : 15-Sep-2005
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Crash
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Hey Listers,
>
> Does anyone know anything about the Mark III crash over the weekend listed
> below? I'm not sure if this is even a Kolb or not as there could be more
> than one brand of Mark III.
>
>
> James Tripp
>
> FSII, Millbrook AL
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 515AB Make/Model: MARK Description: MARK III CLASSIC
> Date: 11/04/2005 Time: 1530
>
> Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Substantial
>
> LOCATION
> City: TUCSON State: AZ Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT SUSTAINED SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE DUE TO A POSSIBLE IN-FLIGHT STRUCTURAL
> FAILURE OF THE LEFT HORIZONTAL STABILIZER BRACKET WHILE ON DOWNWIND TO
> AIRPORT, TUCSON, AZ
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Mike/Gang:
| I have even flown mine in some very heavy rain, left it out
| in the rain while away on trips with no issues.
This is good to hear. Jabiru must have made significant improvements
over their old dual distributor ignition system. The old engine that
did not see rain, but lots of fog kept it from firing.
| I have only been to 13000 feet above sea in G-CDFA and I must admit
she was
| feeling the lack of air, I think it would only go to about 15-16000.
The 912
| would probably be better at these heights I think.
Why do you think the 912 would do better than your engine at higher
altitudes? Seems if your MKIIIx is faster in all parameters than the
MKIIIc with 912, then it would also surpass the 912 at altitude.
| Please do not get me wrong I am not knocking the 912 but there is
just no
| comparison between the old and new Jabs. I think it comes down to
how big
| your wallet is and personal preference.
All of aviation, especially experimental/homebuilt and ultralight,
comes down to how big your wallet is and personal preference. Would
be very interesting to see a unbiased test between Kolbs powered with
Jab and 912. I have about 2,300 hours of 912 time in my MKIII longer
than you have Jab time in your Xtra, which may give me a little edge
on knowing what I am flying a little better after all these hours. I
admit again, I have no personal experience flying a Kolb with Jab
power, but have flown many hours with my buddy and his Jab powered
Kolbra. I do not see how an additional 10 hp flying a direct drive 62
inch two blade prop is going to make that much difference in
performance. The gear box makes the difference on our Kolbs. Ask
Rick Neilsen what performance changes he saw after flying direct drive
and switching to a reduction system.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | My Mark III, not a crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Hi All,
Just to put the rumors to rest. It was my Mark III Classic, 912s with 545 hrs
TT.
On take off and on downwind the passenger side horizontal stabilizer bracket
broke and the stabilizer went straight up and stayed there. It was a little hard
to control, but made a safe landing. Had to call NTSB because it was an in
flight control failure. What broke was the stainless "L" bracket on the front
inside edge of the horizontal stabilizer that allows the stabilizer to fold up.
Looking at this I can see why it failed. It is kept slightly loose so you can
fold the stabilizer up. This allows this to have some amount, ever so slight,
of vibration as you fly. This caused, over time, metal fatigue on the "L" brackets.
When I checked the other side I used a magnifying glass and found another
crack.
I would highly recommend that these stainless "L" brackets be changed at 250
hrs. and I would recommend putting in place a second horizontal stabilizer wire
forward of the first. I learned this from J. Hauck, but did not put mine in
place in time. My error. If I had put a second stabilizer wire in front of the
first (top and bottom) it would have prevented the horizontal stabilizer from
flying up. I am also going to add a second "L" bracket some where between 8"-10"
behind the other. My Kolb will then be double wire braced and and have double
"L" brackets. I never fold my plane up so I will also keep these bolts at
the "L" bracket tight which will help with the minute vibration. I am also going
to use turn buckles like J. Hauck instead of adjustable tangs to dial in my
cable tightness.
The NTSB may have suggestions to Kolb, I'm not sure what they will do?
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
(520) 574-1080
---------------------------------
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
John H asked:.
>
> Why do you think the 912 would do better than your engine at higher
> altitudes? Seems if your MKIIIx is faster in all parameters than the
> MKIIIc with 912, then it would also surpass the 912 at altitude.
John, Mike was probably refering to the 912s bigger slower turning prop
being more efficient and providing better climb at all altitudes. The
smaller prop however may have a slight advantage speed wise.
>
I do not see how an additional 10 hp flying a direct drive 62
> inch two blade prop is going to make that much difference in
> performance.
The differance from John Ws Jab to Mikes, Lurays, and Wills is the extra hp
on top of the bigger props. John flew with a two bladed Warp that was only
58 inches in diameter, These fellows are using 62 and 64 inch wood blades
that are getting a better bite. (Using more of their power) No doubt the
912 has a prop efficientcy edge over the Jab but with the extra 5 hp, the
2200 is still in the ballgame.
As far as comparing your 100hp 912s to a 2200, I don't think anyone doubts
the Rotax has more than a small edge. An extra 15 hp and a gearbox swiging
a big fan will win every time.
The gear box makes the difference on our Kolbs. Ask
> Rick Neilsen what performance changes he saw after flying direct drive
> and switching to a reduction system.
. john h
> MKIII/912ULS
Agreed, but for a simple, lighter, and slightly cheaper price, the Jab is an
excellent alternative.
Denny Rowe
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: My Mark III, not a crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I'm glad you're OK, and were able to control the plane. It's a lesson to be
learned, and I'm going to take steps. Yah, Vamoose will fly - eventually.
Thanks, Roger. Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "roger lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: My Mark III, not a crash
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Just to put the rumors to rest. It was my Mark III Classic, 912s with 545
> hrs TT.
> On take off and on downwind the passenger side horizontal stabilizer
> bracket broke and the stabilizer went straight up and stayed there. It was
> a little hard to control, but made a safe landing. Had to call NTSB
> because it was an in flight control failure. What
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: My Mark III, not a crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Roger Lee
Hi Roger/All:
Glad you are ok.
Hope to see you again next May at the Kolb Flyin, MV, Utah.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Denny/All:
John, Mike was probably refering to the 912s bigger slower turning
prop
| being more efficient and providing better climb at all altitudes.
The
| smaller prop however may have a slight advantage speed wise.
Was comparing the 912 to the Jab. I know I have an additional
"useable" 10 hp, not 15 hp, to use with the 912ULS. I only get 95 hp
at 5,500 rpm, but that is max continuous hp. I can run the 912ULS or
for that matter, the 912UL, at WOT all day long as long as I do not
exceed 5,500 rpm. I can get 100 hp for 5 minutes at 5,800 rpm.
extra hp
| on top of the bigger props. John flew with a two bladed Warp that
was only
| 58 inches in diameter, These fellows are using 62 and 64 inch wood
blades
| that are getting a better bite. (Using more of their power)
That's probably the performance increase, Denny, the longer wood props
with more cord???
Jab is an
| excellent alternative.
Don't doubt it is a good alternative to the 912 series engines.
However, we have not found the radiators/hoses, remote oil tank/hoses,
and the gear box to make this series any more complicated than the
direct drive air cooled engines. After 2,200 hours flying with the
extra gear, I find no more problem flying with it installed than you
do driving your water cooled automobile or motorcycle. I like the
price of the Jab better! ;-)
Has Jabiru sorted out their cylinder head torque problem? Glad they
came up with hydraulic valve lifters. Sure save a lot of maintenance
time, especially on the road.
Please do not take me wrong for supporting the engine I fly. I feel I
have as much right to express my opinion about my engine as anyone
else does about theirs. Also note, I qualified myself several times
by stating I had never flown a Jab powered Kolb, or any other Jab
powered airplane.
Take care,
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ghaley@wt.net
Was he at Monument Valley pulling a trailer with a four wheeler in back?
Gary H.
Quoting Kolbdriver <Kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kolbdriver" <Kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>
>
> Here's a little more info:
>
> N-number : N515AB
> Aircraft Serial Number : 101553
> Aircraft Manufacturer : LEE ROGER
> Model : MARK III CLASSIC
> Aircraft Year :
> Owner Name : LEE ROGER W
> Owner Address : 9531 E LOCHNAY LN
> TUCSON, AZ, 85747-9283
> Type of Owner : Partnership
> Registration Date : 15-Sep-2005
> Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified
>
> Do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
> To: "Kolb-List@Matronics.Com" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Crash
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> > Hey Listers,
> >
> > Does anyone know anything about the Mark III crash over the weekend listed
> > below? I'm not sure if this is even a Kolb or not as there could be more
> > than one brand of Mark III.
> >
> >
> > James Tripp
> >
> > FSII, Millbrook AL
> >
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
> > IDENTIFICATION
> > Regis#: 515AB Make/Model: MARK Description: MARK III CLASSIC
> > Date: 11/04/2005 Time: 1530
> >
> > Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> > Damage: Substantial
> >
> > LOCATION
> > City: TUCSON State: AZ Country: US
> >
> > DESCRIPTION
> > ACFT SUSTAINED SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE DUE TO A POSSIBLE IN-FLIGHT STRUCTURAL
> > FAILURE OF THE LEFT HORIZONTAL STABILIZER BRACKET WHILE ON DOWNWIND TO
> > AIRPORT, TUCSON, AZ
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
That was me.
Roger Lee
ghaley@wt.net wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: ghaley@wt.net
Was he at Monument Valley pulling a trailer with a four wheeler in back?
Gary H.
Quoting Kolbdriver :
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kolbdriver"
>
> Here's a little more info:
>
> N-number : N515AB
> Aircraft Serial Number : 101553
> Aircraft Manufacturer : LEE ROGER
> Model : MARK III CLASSIC
> Aircraft Year :
> Owner Name : LEE ROGER W
> Owner Address : 9531 E LOCHNAY LN
> TUCSON, AZ, 85747-9283
> Type of Owner : Partnership
> Registration Date : 15-Sep-2005
> Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified
>
> Do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Tripp"
> To: "Kolb-List@Matronics.Com"
> Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Crash
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James Tripp"
> >
> > Hey Listers,
> >
> > Does anyone know anything about the Mark III crash over the weekend listed
> > below? I'm not sure if this is even a Kolb or not as there could be more
> > than one brand of Mark III.
> >
> >
> > James Tripp
> >
> > FSII, Millbrook AL
> >
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
> > IDENTIFICATION
> > Regis#: 515AB Make/Model: MARK Description: MARK III CLASSIC
> > Date: 11/04/2005 Time: 1530
> >
> > Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> > Damage: Substantial
> >
> > LOCATION
> > City: TUCSON State: AZ Country: US
> >
> > DESCRIPTION
> > ACFT SUSTAINED SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE DUE TO A POSSIBLE IN-FLIGHT STRUCTURAL
> > FAILURE OF THE LEFT HORIZONTAL STABILIZER BRACKET WHILE ON DOWNWIND TO
> > AIRPORT, TUCSON, AZ
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | My Mark III, not a crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: My Mark III, not a crash
At 10:29 PM 11/16/2005, you wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
You can change those things to. You can even use swaged "machined" turnbuckles.
I used them on the rudders and elevator wires too - gives you some adjustment when
the wires stretch..
Not that there is anything wrong with the original equipment.
It's just cleaner and not that expensive to do it like it should be done.
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Modtail&swagedwires.jpg
Just to put the rumors to rest. It was my Mark III Classic, 912s with 545 hrs
TT.
On take off and on downwind the passenger side horizontal stabilizer bracket
broke and the stabilizer went straight up and stayed there. It was a little hard
to control, but made a safe landing. Had to call NTSB because it was an in
flight control failure. What broke was the stainless "L" bracket on the front
inside edge of the horizontal stabilizer that allows the stabilizer to fold up.
Looking at this I can see why it failed. It is kept slightly loose so you can
fold the stabilizer up. This allows this to have some amount, ever so slight,
of vibration as you fly. This caused, over time, metal fatigue on the "L" brackets.
When I checked the other side I used a magnifying glass and found another
crack.
I would highly recommend that these stainless "L" brackets be changed at 250
hrs. and I would recommend putting in place a second horizontal stabilizer wire
forward of the first. I learned this from J. Hauck, but did not put mine in
place in time. My error. If I had put a second stabilizer wire in front of the
first (top and bottom) it would have prevented the horizontal stabilizer from
flying up. I am also going to add a second "L" bracket some where between 8"-10"
behind the other. My Kolb will then be double wire braced and and have double
"L" brackets. I never fold my plane up so I will also keep these bolts at
the "L" bracket tight which will help with the minute vibration. I am also going
to use turn buckles like J. Hauck instead of adjustable tangs to dial in my
cable tightness.
The NTSB may have suggestions to Kolb, I'm not sure what they will do?
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
John,
Good post, I agree with you across the board.
Denny
do not archive
now I gotta get to bed. :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aero Vee Engine Kit/Comparing 912 and Jabiru
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Hi Denny/All:
>
> John, Mike was probably refering to the 912s bigger slower turning
> prop
> The
>
>
> Was comparing the 912 to the Jab. I know I have an additional
> "useable" 10 hp, not 15 hp, to use with the 912ULS. I only get 95 hp
> at 5,500 rpm, but that is max continuous hp. I can run the 912ULS or
> for that matter, the 912UL, at WOT all day long as long as I do not
> exceed 5,500 rpm. I can get 100 hp for 5 minutes at 5,800 rpm.
>
> extra hp
> was only
> blades
>
> That's probably the performance increase, Denny, the longer wood props
> with more cord???
>
> Jab is an
>
> Don't doubt it is a good alternative to the 912 series engines.
> However, we have not found the radiators/hoses, remote oil tank/hoses,
> and the gear box to make this series any more complicated than the
> direct drive air cooled engines. After 2,200 hours flying with the
> extra gear, I find no more problem flying with it installed than you
> do driving your water cooled automobile or motorcycle. I like the
> price of the Jab better! ;-)
>
> Has Jabiru sorted out their cylinder head torque problem? Glad they
> came up with hydraulic valve lifters. Sure save a lot of maintenance
> time, especially on the road.
>
> Please do not take me wrong for supporting the engine I fly. I feel I
> have as much right to express my opinion about my engine as anyone
> else does about theirs. Also note, I qualified myself several times
> by stating I had never flown a Jab powered Kolb, or any other Jab
> powered airplane.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
> MKIII/912ULS
> Titus, Alabama
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: My Mark III, not a crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Roger,
Glad to hear you got her down safe!
I like yours and Johns suggestion about the extra set of wires on the tail.
However, I don't think you should add the second set of L brackets behind
the originals. The Kolb HS is built to move slightly as the elevator is
deflected so the trailing edge of the stabilizers move up and down, the
extra set of attatch fittings will cause a bind and put additional stress on
the stabs root tube.
My Mk-3 has the older style attatch fittings made from 4130, I like these
much better than the stainless L ones that were also shown in my plans.
Stainless is a fantastic material for certain applications, but chromolly is
much stronger and holds up much better under vibration and heavy loads.
As you mentioned, everyone with the stainless L brackets should check them
at once, and consider switching them out for sure.
Denny Rowe,
Mk-3, PA, And maker of the "Stainless Scoop" line of stainless steel Free
Air scoops for Rotax 503, 447, and 377 tractor mounted engines, as well as
an employee of the largest Stainless steel producer in the country.
Message 31
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Ahhh, you like my butt, huh ?? Hmmmm ?? No nudist sites. Not
around Queer Springs, at least........not my cuppa.
Seriously, I'm glad you enjoyed the pics. I sure enjoyed my visit there,
and plan on it again as soon as I can get the time off work. Wait till you
see the pages on Vacation 2005 in a few weeks. Too bad the weather was so
bad, but it was still great. Was your seminar in LA productive
?? Lar. XXX
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "russ kinne" <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Web Pages
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
> BigLar
> Enjoyed your pix of the Okefenokee -- and glad to see you caught your
> best profile in that self-timer shot.
> I canoed & camped there years ago, sleeping in a jungle hammock. Great
> place! Even saw a possum at midnite -- must have been POGO!
> A most entertaining website. Do you plan one on a nudist camp
> sometime??
> Best,
> Russ
> DNA!
>
>
>
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