---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/14/05: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:44 AM - NORMS MK3 CRASH (Rex Rodebush) 2. 08:03 AM - Norm's crash (Clay Stuart) 3. 08:31 AM - Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! (John Jung) 4. 08:56 AM - Re: NORMS MK3 CRASH (Larry Duncan) 5. 09:03 AM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire Plugs (John Hauck) 6. 10:23 AM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! (bryan green) 7. 10:48 AM - Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire Plugs (John Jung) 8. 11:05 AM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! (lucien stavenhagen) 9. 11:54 AM - Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! (John Jung) 10. 12:00 PM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! (John Russell) 11. 01:03 PM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! (possums) 12. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! (bryan green) 13. 02:13 PM - Fuel System (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 14. 02:24 PM - Re: NORMS MK3 CRASH (Jim Ballenger) 15. 03:28 PM - Chris Davis (russ kinne) 16. 04:22 PM - hose clamps (Paul Petty) 17. 05:15 PM - Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire (John Jung) 18. 05:17 PM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Soot in the Spark Plug Wire Caps (John Hauck) 19. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire (John Hauck) 20. 06:07 PM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Soot in the Spark Plug Wire Caps (lucien stavenhagen) 21. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire (lucien stavenhagen) 22. 07:42 PM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Soot in the Spark Plug Wire Caps (John Hauck) 23. 07:52 PM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire (John Hauck) 24. 07:58 PM - Fw: prop hub (Paul Petty) 25. 07:58 PM - Fw: more photos (Paul Petty) 26. 08:06 PM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! (woody) 27. 08:21 PM - Re: NORMS MK3 CRASH (WillUribe@aol.com) 28. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire (HShack@aol.com) 29. 09:21 PM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:04 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: NORMS MK3 CRASH From: "Rex Rodebush" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" Chris, It's good to hear you are making progress, although it's obviously a long and hard journey. It's also privilege to have a fellow Kolber with your class and decency. Our thoughts are with you and your family and hopefully we can see you at future fly in. Get well soon and have a very Merry Christmas. Rex Rodebush Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:26 AM PST US From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: Norm's crash --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" So glad to hear that Chris Davis is recovering and has such a noble outlook on his situation. Has Kolb addressed the fuel tank contamination problems that contributed to this accident? I had flown with Norm several times and found him to be such a meticulous pilot, I don't understand how the fuel problem evolved. Shouldn't the stock tanks be designed so that they can be readily sampled and fed through a gascolator to prevent these occurances? I have not touched my Mark IIIXtra project since Norm's accident, and may never finish. It had a profound effect on me. I had just been up with him at the fly-in right before the accident, and had teased his small girls. I made a sizeable contribution to the girls education fund and received a very nice note from his widow. Still hoping to fly again, but can't recover my enthusiasm. Clay Stuart Danville KY P.S. Chris, it was good to hear the nice things about the Univ of KY hospital. I spent 4 years there in dental school many years ago (33). ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:00 AM PST US From: John Jung Subject: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung Group, I need some two cycle advise. I have a problem with my 503 that I have never experienced before with any two cycle. In order to get it started, needs to be spun faster than even a new battery can spin it. It starts with jumper cables. Once started, it seems to run fine. I even flew with it because I thought that I just had a battery problem. It will start up normally right after being shut down, but not 15 minutes later. When it fails to start, it will not fire at all and get flooded from using the primer or the chokes. With jumpers on, and the throttle opened, it will clear out, and fire up. The battery seems to spin it as fast as it ever did. it spins much faster with jumpers. I have a few guesses, but I would like to know what others think these symptoms indicate. Maybe someone has experienced the same thing, and figured out what was causes these symptoms. i don't plan to fly again until I fix this problem. John Jung Firstar II N6163J Surprise, AZ do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:23 AM PST US From: Larry Duncan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: NORMS MK3 CRASH --> Kolb-List message posted by: Larry Duncan ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:37 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire Plugs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" | In order to get it | started, needs to be spun faster than even a new battery can spin it. | | John Jung John J/Gang: We had a similar problem with the first 912 I bought. Could not get it to fire. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what was wrong with this "piece of junk". The morning I was going to fly down to Ronnie Smith's, Lucedale, MS, to diagnose and fix the problem, I got an idea while in the shower. Figured if I closed the spark plug gap a bit it might start easier. As soon as I got to Ronnie's, 187 miles by air, I went to eat lunch. When I got back Ronnie had the problem fixed. He closed the spark plug gaps down to .020. Normal gap by the book is .028. After that it always fired right up like it was supposed to, except once at the Lake Texoma Flyin at Cedar Mills, TX, in 1998. Got ready to head for home and the 912 would not fire, period. Pulled the plugs, closed the gap back down to .020 and it fired right up. Have not had this problem with the 912S, however, I run the plugs at .025 when I put them in new and at 50 hours when I pulll to inspect and regap. Not a good feeling to be a long way from home with an engine that does not want to fire. I don't know if this is the problem or not. I don't know if you put new plugs in or not. But if it was me, I would put in new plugs and close the gap down to see if it would solve the problem. The 912 ran like a clock once it was started. Just a bugger to get it to fire.............................. john h MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, alabama ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:16 AM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" John was the engine running fine and then one day it just started this or has something been changed on it? Do not archive Bryan Green (Elgin SC) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jung" Subject: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung > > Group, > > I need some two cycle advise. I have a problem with my 503 that I have > never experienced before with any two cycle. In order to get it > started, needs to be spun faster than even a new battery can spin it. > It starts with jumper cables. Once started, it seems to run fine. I > even flew with it because I thought that I just had a battery problem. > It will start up normally right after being shut down, but not 15 > minutes later. When it fails to start, it will not fire at all and get > flooded from using the primer or the chokes. With jumpers on, and the > throttle opened, it will clear out, and fire up. The battery seems to > spin it as fast as it ever did. it spins much faster with jumpers. > > I have a few guesses, but I would like to know what others think these > symptoms indicate. Maybe someone has experienced the same thing, and > figured out what was causes these symptoms. > > i don't plan to fly again until I fix this problem. > > John Jung > Firstar II N6163J > Surprise, AZ > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:57 AM PST US From: John Jung Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire Plugs --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung John H and Group, Thanks for the idea. Plug gap is one that I had not thought of. But easy to test. If that solves the problem, I will be very grateful. John Jung Firstar II N6163J Surprise, AZ do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:53 AM PST US From: "lucien stavenhagen" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" Here are some things to check to start off with (apart from all the usual fuel and ignition system diagnostics). Fuel: - If you're using a plunger primer, one and _only_ one shot is needed to get the motor to fire (once the gas gets to the primer ports). Make sure you're not overpriming and thus flooding the motor. Don't use both the chokes and shots from a primer together, this will dump too much gas into it for sure causing flooding. - Let the motor idle for a bit before you shut down. At least 30 seconds is good to let it cool down and load up a bit with fuel. Shutting it off red hot has a tendency to burn off all the gas in the combustion chambers if any of the ports happen to be open. This can make it a bear to get started again even after priming it.. Ignition: - Check the plug caps, they deteriorate quicker than you'd think. They should be a struggle to remove from the plugs - if they slip off easily they need to be replaced. Also, look inside the cap for a black powerdy, sooty looking substance. If you see this, this isn't soot from the motor, but disintegration of the parts inside the cap (the resistor typically). Replace if any soot is seen in the plug. Bad caps can make for very weak ignition leading to starting problems. - Make sure you're gapping the plugs correctly. .018" is a good gap for the 503. Just my first impression is that you're overpriming the motor a bit, the symptom sounds a little like flooding to me..... Hope that helps, LS N646F >Group, > >I need some two cycle advise. I have a problem with my 503 that I have >never experienced before with any two cycle. In order to get it >started, needs to be spun faster than even a new battery can spin it. >It starts with jumper cables. Once started, it seems to run fine. I >even flew with it because I thought that I just had a battery problem. >It will start up normally right after being shut down, but not 15 >minutes later. When it fails to start, it will not fire at all and get >flooded from using the primer or the chokes. With jumpers on, and the >throttle opened, it will clear out, and fire up. The battery seems to >spin it as fast as it ever did. it spins much faster with jumpers. > >I have a few guesses, but I would like to know what others think these >symptoms indicate. Maybe someone has experienced the same thing, and >figured out what was causes these symptoms. > >i don't plan to fly again until I fix this problem. > >John Jung >Firstar II N6163J >Surprise, AZ >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:41 AM PST US From: John Jung Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! 0.00 MANY_EXCLAMATIONS Subject has many exclamations --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung Bryan and Group, That is a good question. The problem started after doing a de-carbon. But I thought that it was just a battery problem, so I didn't think further. Oh, I didn't change the plugs with the de-carbon, because they have less than 5 hours on them. Also, the compression seems the same. Only one broken oil ring was replaced and the engine showed no sign of significant wear with 200 hours. Although, it doesn't have many hours, it's probably 10 years since it was manufactured. John Jung --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" John was the engine running fine and then one day it just started this or has something been changed on it? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:03 PM PST US From: "John Russell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Russell" Idle jet partially blocked?? It would still idle but would be hard to start. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jung" Subject: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung > > Group, > > I need some two cycle advise. I have a problem with my 503 that I have > never experienced before with any two cycle. In order to get it > started, needs to be spun faster than even a new battery can spin it. > It starts with jumper cables. Once started, it seems to run fine. I > even flew with it because I thought that I just had a battery problem. > It will start up normally right after being shut down, but not 15 > minutes later. When it fails to start, it will not fire at all and get > flooded from using the primer or the chokes. With jumpers on, and the > throttle opened, it will clear out, and fire up. The battery seems to > spin it as fast as it ever did. it spins much faster with jumpers. > > I have a few guesses, but I would like to know what others think these > symptoms indicate. Maybe someone has experienced the same thing, and > figured out what was causes these symptoms. > > i don't plan to fly again until I fix this problem. > > John Jung > Firstar II N6163J > Surprise, AZ > do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:12 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums Hey John http://media.putfile.com/Worst-Job-Ever How's Charlie doing? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:07 PM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" The only thing I can come up with John you've probably done already. Check everything you had loose gaskets, carb boot and such. Check to make sure your throttle is closing all the way if it does not it will do that. It sounds like you have a vacuum leak somewhere keeping you from getting the proper fuel air mixture into the cylinder. Do not archive Bryan Green (Elgin SC) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jung" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung > > Bryan and Group, > > That is a good question. The problem started after doing a de-carbon. > But I thought that it was just a battery problem, so I didn't think > further. Oh, I didn't change the plugs with the de-carbon, because they > have less than 5 hours on them. Also, the compression seems the same. > Only one broken oil ring was replaced and the engine showed no sign of > significant wear with 200 hours. Although, it doesn't have many hours, > it's probably 10 years since it was manufactured. > > John Jung > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" > > John was the engine running fine and then one day it just started this > or > has something been changed on it? > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:00 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel System --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Clay/All I thought there was still some debate on the exact cause of the engine stoppage. I came from general aviation and every certified airplane has a fuel drain at the low part of the fuel system. Because of this I didn't feel comfortable with the Kolb recommended system. My fuel system uses the stock 5 gallon fuel tanks. I take fuel from the bottom of my tanks. Each fuel outlet has a finger strainer. The fuel lines tee together and feed directly to a aircraft gascolator. The gascolator is at the low point of the fuel system and it has a drain valve that sticks out the passenger side of the fuselage it is also equipped with a strainer. From the gascolator the fuel goes to a large automotive filter. After the filter it goes to my electric backup fuel pump and then to my primary electric fuel pump. From the fuel pumps the fuel goes thru a shout off valve and then to the carburetors. Each carb has its own strainer. Before I fly each day and after each fuel fill I drain some fuel from the gascolator. When I'm home I collect the drained fuel in a small clear glass jar so that I can see any junk or water in the fuel lines. When away from home I just drain some on the ground. I understand Norm's crash had a profound effect on you but life is dangerous. Just getting out of bed in the morning is a risk and you probably don't even give a second thought to getting in a car which is much more dangerous than flying. Just build in those safety features in your plane you feel necessary to reduce the risk. Come on you still have time to beat the guy on the left coast with that moose something named airplane into the air. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: Norm's crash > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" > > So glad to hear that Chris Davis is recovering and has such a noble > outlook on his situation. > > Has Kolb addressed the fuel tank contamination problems that contributed > to this accident? I had flown with Norm several times and found him to be > such a meticulous pilot, I don't understand how the fuel problem evolved. > Shouldn't the stock tanks be designed so that they can be readily sampled > and fed through a gascolator to prevent these occurances? ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:25 PM PST US From: "Jim Ballenger" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: NORMS MK3 CRASH --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" Chris I read your email and thought what a noble gentleman. I wish everyone had the same outlook on life and what it has to offer. I wish you a full speedy recovery and best of luck with your Kolb project. Enjoy life to it's fullest. Jim Ballenger MK III X 582 Virginia Beach, VA Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris davis" Subject: Kolb-List: NORMS MK3 CRASH > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "chris davis" > > HI LIsters its been a year and a month since I was the passenger with > Norm at > the Kolb factory. Rest his soul, . a KOLBER forever Chris davis cape cod > ma.& O'Brien Fl. > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:39 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Kolb-List: Chris Davis --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne All Many comments about Chris Davis' comments on the crash that injured him so badly. I don't need to add more -- he is one superb human being and we're lucky to have him in our midst. Rick Neilson described his excellent fuel system -- IMHO he has taken, most prudently, just about every precaution he possibly could have, to avoid fuel contamination and a subsequent engine failure. I personally would be very reluctant to fly anything that did NOT have a sump-drain at the lowest point of the fuel system . And I will always drain a sample and examine it carefully before engine start. After that the only thing left is to fly defensively, keeping a safe landing area within reach whenever possible, if the engine should stop at any time . Can't always do that, of course, esp. during landings & T/O's. But I still remember being chastised for saying "keep within gliding range of the field on downwind, base and final" by people who wanted me to use a 3-degree glideslope on final, and simply hope the engine will never quit. Sorry, guys, but I'll fly my way. Safely. Why not? Merry Christmas to all! Russ Kinne ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:18 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: hose clamps required 4.6, BAYES_44 -0.00, HTML_50_60 0.10, HTML_MESSAGE 0.25) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, A while back I mentioned the Gates Power Grip hose clamps. Here is what they look like. http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC130001.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC130006.JPG Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp I.L.D.S. :-) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:57 PM PST US From: John Jung Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire 0.00 MANY_EXCLAMATIONS Subject has many exclamations --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung "Thank you!" John Hauck. it was the plug gap. I went to the airport after lunch to check the plug gaps. My gaps measured about .020", and I am not sure why. I reset them to .015, and then rolled the plane out to give it a test. Turned the key and pumped the primer. Fired right up on the third pump. This is the way it used to run, and I am very happy that it was such an easy fix. I even started it with the prop, to confirm that it is back to normal. It bothered me that I had set the gaps to .020 when my 503 manual says .016 + - .02 (I'm sure they meant .002). I looked in my other source of Rotax information, the CPS catalog. Page 20 indicates a .02 in. electrode gap for a Rotax 503 dual ignition engine. John Jung Firestar II N6163J Surprise, AZ Original request: > I need some two cycle advise. I have a problem with my 503 that I have > never experienced before with any two cycle. In order to get it > started, needs to be spun faster than even a new battery can spin it. > It starts with jumper cables. Once started, it seems to run fine. I > even flew with it because I thought that I just had a battery problem. > It will start up normally right after being shut down, but not 15 > minutes later. When it fails to start, it will not fire at all and get > flooded from using the primer or the chokes. With jumpers on, and the > throttle opened, it will clear out, and fire up. The battery seems to > spin it as fast as it ever did. it spins much faster with jumpers. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:06 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Soot in the Spark Plug Wire Caps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" |Also, look inside the cap for a black powerdy, sooty | looking substance. If you see this, this isn't soot from the motor, but | disintegration of the parts inside the cap (the resistor typically). Replace | if any soot is seen in the plug. | | LS LS/All: How do we know the soot is from a disintegrating resistor in the plug cap? john h MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, alabama ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:29 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" | | John Jung John J/Gang: I'll be damned! ;-) hehehe Sometimes it pays to be an old fart, having paid my dues to the God of Rotax and many of the baffling problems she can throw at us. Seriously, John, glad that is all it was. Usually, it is something very simple. If the plugs ain't firing it isn't because it isn't getting fuel. Doesn't take fuel to fire a plug, but it takes a plug to fire the fuel. hehehe Glad I could be of help, even though you are retired Air Force. Later, john h ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:14 PM PST US From: "lucien stavenhagen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Soot in the Spark Plug Wire Caps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" John and list, The main clue is the fact that there's no soot anywhere else on the motor, so it can't have come from there.... The resistor is just a little piece of carbon that eventually crushes and the dust ends up in the cap..... I've seen this a lot, though generally on caps with lots of hours on them, 100 or more..... The rubber boot deteriorates as well showing up as the loose cap syndrome, but the powdery stuff comes from inside the cap.... The caps can also open up electrically without visible soot. I've had this happen a lot too. A deceptive thing is, the cap will usually continue to sort of work even though it's electrically open, because the voltage is usually high enough to bridge the extra gap as well as the plug.... That could cause hard starting, tho I once ran my 503 on my other plane for probably 50 hours with an unknown-to-me open plug cap.... LS N646F >LS/All: > >How do we know the soot is from a disintegrating resistor in the plug >cap? > >john h >MKIII/912ULS >hauck's holler, alabama > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:28 PM PST US From: "lucien stavenhagen" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" John, .02 probably still shouldn't give you that much grief. It should still start easily, even though that's a slightly large gap. So it's possible that you might still have a problem, keep your eye on it. I'd keep troubleshooting but it looks like you're narrowing in on the problem (i.e. you've eliminated fuel sounds like). You might check the plug caps with a VOM - they should measure around 5K if I recall correctly. If any of them check out as open, they need to be replaced... and if soot is present replace for sure.... LS N646F >"Thank you!" John Hauck. it was the plug gap. > >I went to the airport after lunch to check the plug gaps. My gaps >measured about .020", and I am not sure why. I reset them to .015, and >then rolled the plane out to give it a test. Turned the key and pumped >the primer. Fired right up on the third pump. This is the way it used >to run, and I am very happy that it was such an easy fix. I even >started it with the prop, to confirm that it is back to normal. > >It bothered me that I had set the gaps to .020 when my 503 manual says >.016 + - .02 (I'm sure they meant .002). I looked in my other source of >Rotax information, the CPS catalog. Page 20 indicates a .02 in. >electrode gap for a Rotax 503 dual ignition engine. > >John Jung >Firestar II N6163J >Surprise, AZ > >Original request: > > I need some two cycle advise. I have a problem with my 503 that I have > > never experienced before with any two cycle. In order to get it > > started, needs to be spun faster than even a new battery can spin it. > > It starts with jumper cables. Once started, it seems to run fine. I > > even flew with it because I thought that I just had a battery problem. > > It will start up normally right after being shut down, but not 15 > > minutes later. When it fails to start, it will not fire at all and get > > flooded from using the primer or the chokes. With jumpers on, and the > > throttle opened, it will clear out, and fire up. The battery seems to > > spin it as fast as it ever did. it spins much faster with jumpers. > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:42 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Soot in the Spark Plug Wire Caps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" motor, | so it can't have come from there.... | | LS LS/All: Do you reckon that the black residue you are seeing is the result in arching inside the plug cap? This is very common in high capacity ignition systems. john h MKIII/912ULS ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:44 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" still start | easily, even though that's a slightly large gap. | | | LS LS/All: Should start, but they won't. Got something to do with the CDI system. All things are not the same on Rotax engines. john h MKIII/912ULS ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:45 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: prop hub required 4.6, BAYES_44 -0.00, HTML_MESSAGE 0.25) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Petty Subject: prop hub Ronnie, Here are a few pictures of my prop flange on my 912UL. There are three threaded lugs and three lugs that are striaght through. As you mentioned, knocking them out and going with the 1/2" AN bolts was not a problem with the 3 non threaded lugs.. however the other 3 will not budge.... ergggg I beat on the tip and placed a 8mm bolt in the threads and only managed to move the lug maybe 1/16" of an inch. I am afraid of bending the prop shaft or damaging the gears if i hit it any harder.. http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC140001.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC140002.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC140003.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC140004.JPG ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:51 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: more photos required 4.6, BAYES_20 -1.43, HTML_60_70 0.11, HTML_MESSAGE 0.25) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Petty Subject: more photos http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC140006.JPG http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC140007.JPG ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:35 PM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" If a 2 cycle does not run right the first thing to do is put a new set of plugs in it. Don't throw out the old ones untill you are sure that is the problem. Did you spin the engine with the plug wires off? I understand that can screw up the ignition system. Is the throttle going back to full closed idle? I could never get a 2 cycle to start unless the choke was full on and throttle was full off. Only a little bit open and no luck..Its hard to be a doctor from a distance :) ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:42 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: NORMS MK3 CRASH --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com Greetings, Last year, when I was at London, KY I picked up this newspaper called The Sentinel. It is a very good tribute. It was published November 19, 2004. _http://www.members.aol.com/willuribe/norm-part1.jpg_ (http://www.members.aol.com/willuribe/norm-part1.jpg) _http://www.members.aol.com/willuribe/norm-part2.jpg_ (http://www.members.aol.com/willuribe/norm-part2.jpg) do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:04 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/2005 8:16:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrjungjr@yahoo.com writes: It bothered me that I had set the gaps to .020 when my 503 manual says .016 + - .02 (I'm sure they meant .002). I looked in my other source of Rotax information, the CPS catalog. Page 20 indicates a .02 in. electrode gap for a Rotax 503 dual ignition engine. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the manual reads ".016-.02" [not +-]; that is .016 TO .020. I try to set mine to .017. Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:55 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick!/Fails to Fire --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" +-]; that is | .016 TO .020. | | I try to set mine to .017. | | Howard Shackleford Hi Shack/Gang: I don't know. I haven't looked at the manual for a long time. However, I interpret the plug gap as a wear limit. One could start out at .016 and regap when it gets to .020", or any where in-between. Reckon the Rotax engineers that designed and built the 503 knew enough to know what the correct plug gap should be. Again, if it will not fire, close'em down a little until it does. Anyhow, that is what I would do. How goes it in Trenton, SC. Got to get back over there one of these days real soon. That group serves up a mean lunch and some true southern hospitality to wayfaring strangers. ;-) john h MKIII/912ULS