Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! (Kirk Smith)
2. 06:55 AM - Re: new to the List (Ben Ramler)
3. 07:30 AM - Re: new to the List (Thom Riddle)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: new to the List (John Jung)
5. 08:33 AM - Re: new to the List (lucien stavenhagen)
6. 09:18 AM - Re: new to the List/Gap Seals (John Hauck)
7. 09:39 AM - Re: new to the List/Gap Seals (lucien stavenhagen)
8. 09:57 AM - Re: Kolb List: new to the List (John Jung)
9. 09:58 AM - Gap Seals (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
10. 10:10 AM - Re: new to the List/Gap Seals (David Lehman)
11. 10:21 AM - Re: new to the List/Gap Seals (John Hauck)
12. 10:39 AM - Re: new to the List/Gap Seals (David Lehman)
13. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: Kolb List: new to the List (lucien stavenhagen)
14. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: Kolb List: new to the List (Don Gherardini)
15. 02:04 PM - Re: new to the List/Gap Seals (roger lee)
16. 02:49 PM - photos (Paul Petty)
17. 03:00 PM - Re: new to the List/Gap Seals (Richard Pike)
18. 04:49 PM - Re: new to the List/Gap Seals (ray anderson)
19. 06:02 PM - Re: Memories and Merry Xmas!!! (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Doctor! Doctor! My 503 is sick! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> The idea is similar to the warning not to spin your car motor with
> any spark plug wires unattached to either a ground or a plug.
> The spark will attempt to find a path through the distributor cap to
> ground
> and once a track is established the cap is junk. More likely true
> if the cap is old and marginal to begin with.
Don't think this is quite the same as a CDI ignition BB.
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
Rick if you want to send me more pictures that would be great! Why don't you contact
me off the list and I will give you my address if you are planning on putting
a CD together? ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com
Ben
Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM05@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
Ben
Welcome. One word of advice, don't use that F...... word on this list. Those
planes are made with designs stolen from Kolb.
Well are Kolb's the plane for you???? Only you can answer that. They are
very rugged well designed airplanes. They are STOL airplanes and as such
don't fly very fast but they will get you there and home. We have members
that don't think twice about flying their airplanes just about every where.
One has flown to Alaska three times another every state in the lower 48 in
his first summer of flying his new plane and the list goes on and on.
I have a bunch of photos I could send you if you want but to wet your
appetite you may want to view some of the following:
http://www.hawaiiscenics.com/gallery/144699/1/5411187
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbflyer/
Also John Hauck has a fantastic photo journal of a couple of his flight to
Alaska that is beyond belief from his MKIIIc. I couldn't find my link to
them but I'm sure some one will point you to them if you like.
The Kolb factory is fantastic to work with and we as a group stand ready to
help at any time.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Ramler"
Subject: Kolb-List: new to the List
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ramler
>
> Hello all Kolb flyers and builders,
>
> My name's Ben Ramler. I live in the SW portion of Minnesota. I'm
> thinking about getting my Sport pilot Lic. and I have right now 2 hours on
> a cessna which means I only need 18 hours left for flight training. So in
> order to get my lic. I need to build an airplane first! So my question is
> this.....Who on the list flys the MK IIIC or the xtra and would an
> airplane like that be right for Me? The other airplanes I've been looking
> at are: CH-701 (zenith) and the FX-4 (made by Ferguson aircraft). I'm also
> wondering what the flight characteristiccs of that airplane are? Does
> anyone have some in flight photos from out of the cockpit to share? Any
> would be appreciated very much!
>
>
> thanks & Merry christmas to you all,
>
>
> Ben Ramler
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Ben,
I've owned both a Zenith CH-701 and a Kolb Firestar. The 701 is a fine
all metal airplane and a good STOL airplane but the visibility sucks
compared to ALL KOLBS. The Kolbs are simpler and usually lighter
airplanes with as good or better STOL capability as the 701. Until
you've flown in a pusher aircraft you can not even imagine the
difference in enjoyment of flight resulting from the far superior
forward visibility provided by this configuration. I also took a demo
flight in a Ferguson once and did not like it.
Bottom line: If you want to really see the world from the cockpit, then
you MUST have a pusher.
Hope this helps.
Thom in Buffalo
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
Ben and Group,
Here is a picture that I took from my Kolb last spring. It is from a
Firestar II rather than a Mark III, but it demonstrates why some people
say Kolbs have a "million dollar view".
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jrjungexecpccom/
detail?.dir=d409&.dnm=bdfb.jpg
John Jung
Firstar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Hi Ben,
I've flown several different types of aircraft. I started out in general
aviation, then owned and flew a quicksilver MX Super, a trike and a PPC
(which I still have). I've flown in various other airplanes, such as an RV,
a rans coyote S6 and a couple others that I can't remember at the moment.
I now own a Kolb Firestar II (built by someone else though) and have about
50 to 60 hours flight time in it.
I'd say, in comparison to the other planes I've flown or the others I could
potentially get into, the Kolb has the following advantages:
- the view. Other guys have mentioned this and it's true. In fact, only my
quicksilver and my trike had a better view than the Kolb and that still
wasn't by too much (I suppose if you didn't put fabric on the cockpit cage,
the vis. would be even better). For sure, tractor config airplanes become
rather boring after a while, since you stare at a lot of airplane instead of
sky when you fly them.
- the folding wings. The Kolb is the only plane that I know of that's not a
pain in the butt to fold up. My trike's wing could be broken down, but it
was a pain (easy to booger cables and wear holes in the sail taking it in
and out of the bag). No other plane can fold up as well as the Kolb. This is
a big advantage of the Kolbs...
- dope and fabric covering. Kolbs are covered in Stitts, which is much
longer lasting than traditional dacron coverings that you find on most light
aircraft. Dacron covers are easier to install, but dope and fabric lasts
simply forever..
- overall design advantages that I like about the Kolb are:
-- no moving parts whatsoever inside the wing. Hooray! This was my favorite
part about trikes and what I hate hate hate the most about traditional
construction of GA planes and such. The Kolb has the same advantage. No
cables, pullys, bellcranks and associated hard-to-reach
nuts/bolts/pushrods/teleflex cables in the wing. The entire aileron/flap
system is all completely outside the wing in easy-to-inspect and service
places.
-- strong construction. The spars and fuse tube are much stronger than
required.
-- Rivets and lots of them substitute for bolt/channel bracket construction
found in many other designs. Bolt/tube/channel bracket construction wears
out surprisingly quickly requiring new tubes and brackets (or frustrating
repair of boogered holes in tube ends) on a somewhat regular basis. The Kolb
is riveted together just about everywhere with only a few wearing parts. For
example, the hinges on the Kolb are the flat door-like hinges that use a pin
and they're riveted to the control surface. They're designed to last the
entire life of the plane and not need periodic replacement like the more
typical bolt/channel bracket type hinges sometimes found on other designs.
-- fuselage is just a tube. This is the way to go, and it's done in a strong
manner on the Kolb.
-- control cables are extremely simple. Only 4 of them that lead from the
stick and rudder pedals, through the fuse tube and hook to the horns on the
elevator/rudder. They go around only one set of pullies under the seat. Very
simple and easy to inspect and service.
So basically, I really like the way the Kolb is built. It's not an F16 for
sure, but for a small light aircraft, it's a very good design.
The only disadvantages I can think of are apparently quite difficult
construction (though this looks like a non-issue with the quickbuild
options!) and not a whole lot of aileron authority, which might be only an
aspect of the Firestar (and I don't have the gap seals on mine yet).
So for sure shop around and see what appeals to you. Personally, these are
the advantages I can see with the Kolb and if they work for your mission,
the Kolb is a really good choice....
LS
N646F
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List/Gap Seals |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
difficult
| construction (though this looks like a non-issue with the quickbuild
| options!) and not a whole lot of aileron authority, which might be
only an
| aspect of the Firestar (and I don't have the gap seals on mine yet).
|
| LS
LS/All:
Sounds like you are flying an incomplete aircraft. Aileron gap seals
are an extremely important component of Kolb aircraft.
You may be surprised when you find out how well your FS flies in its
finished state.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List/Gap Seals |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
>LS/All:
>
>Sounds like you are flying an incomplete aircraft. Aileron gap seals
>are an extremely important component of Kolb aircraft.
>
>You may be surprised when you find out how well your FS flies in its
>finished state.
lol... I think that's exactly the correct way to term it, that it's not
finished yet at right at 500 hours total time.....
Truth is, I'm not sure why the original builder never put them on.....
I know they should make a heck of a difference, judging by how well they
always worked on my R/C planes. And that's a quite huge gap there between
the aileron and TE of the wing.....
In fact, this weekend is when I plan to start working on them..... I might
try temporary ones using tape and go around the patch a couple times to see
what the effect is.....
LS
N646F
do not archive
>john h
>MKIII/912ULS
>hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb List: new to the List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Jung <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
Lucien and Group,
Lucien, you gave a very good write up on Kolbs! But as good as it is, I
feel compelled to comment on the "apparently quite difficult
construction":
My Firestar II took me 11 weeks and 370 hours to build. To do that I
took 5 weeks vacation from my job. I was the first plane that I built,
too.
I say building a Kolb is a "piece of cake", and I had FUN doing it.
The only difficult part, for me, was the planning ahead, so that I
always had something to work on, and didn't have to stop and wait for
anything. But that wouldn't be a problem for someone not trying to meet
a timeline. I needed to get the painting done before the Wisconsin
weather turned too cold.
John Jung
Firstar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
do not archive
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen"
<lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
The only disadvantages I can think of are apparently quite difficult
construction (though this looks like a non-issue with the quickbuild
options!)
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05@comcast.net>
Lucien
The lack of gap seals IS the reason for poor aileron power. Kolbs are
legendary for their great aileron power. I don't understand it, the
instructions are very clear that they are needed but.......
I had a guy fly into my strip last summer that knew everything about
building airplanes and told me so. He had built a MKIIIc like mine without
the gap seals and a bunch of other design changes. He explained that gap
seals weren't important and nothing I could say could change his mind. Later
when he took off he used every inch of my 1400' strip and barely cleared the
power lines 1/2 mile away nearly killing him and his passenger. Why??????
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucien stavenhagen" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: new to the List
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen"
> <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
>
> The only disadvantages I can think of are apparently quite difficult
> construction (though this looks like a non-issue with the quickbuild
> options!) and not a whole lot of aileron authority, which might be only an
> aspect of the Firestar (and I don't have the gap seals on mine yet).
> LS
> N646F
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List/Gap Seals |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: David Lehman <david@davidlehman.net>
As I haven't picked up my Firestar yet (next week!), I don't know what I
have for gap seals... Should the rudder and elevators be sealed too...
DVD
On 12/16/05, lucien stavenhagen <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" <
> lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
>
> >LS/All:
> >
> >Sounds like you are flying an incomplete aircraft. Aileron gap seals
> >are an extremely important component of Kolb aircraft.
> >
> >You may be surprised when you find out how well your FS flies in its
> >finished state.
>
> lol... I think that's exactly the correct way to term it, that it's not
> finished yet at right at 500 hours total time.....
>
> Truth is, I'm not sure why the original builder never put them on.....
>
> I know they should make a heck of a difference, judging by how well they
> always worked on my R/C planes. And that's a quite huge gap there between
> the aileron and TE of the wing.....
>
> In fact, this weekend is when I plan to start working on them..... I might
> try temporary ones using tape and go around the patch a couple times to
> see
> what the effect is.....
>
> LS
> N646F
>
> do not archive
> >john h
> >MKIII/912ULS
> >hauck's holler, alabama
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List/Gap Seals |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Should the rudder and elevators be sealed too...
|
| DVD
DVD/Gang:
Plans did not call for them on any of my three different Kolbs. Gave
it some thought, but never got around to experimenting with elevator
and rudder gap seals, and sealing the area between vertical
stabilizers, upper and lower, where they mate with the tail boom.
Can't remember if anyone else I know has done that experimentation or
not.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List/Gap Seals |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: David Lehman <david@davidlehman.net>
Thanx John...
The only airplane I've owned that had all the surfaces sealed (except flaps)
was my Mooney Mite and the factory built them that way, so I don't know how
it would have performed without them...
DVD
On 12/16/05, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Should the rudder and elevators be sealed too...
>
> DVD/Gang:
>
> Plans did not call for them on any of my three different Kolbs. Gave
> it some thought, but never got around to experimenting with elevator
> and rudder gap seals, and sealing the area between vertical
> stabilizers, upper and lower, where they mate with the tail boom.
> Can't remember if anyone else I know has done that experimentation or
> not.
>
> john h
> MKIII/912ULS
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb List: new to the List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
John,
I happily stand corrected ;). And certainly I didn't build mine, I only
remember the original builder complaining about certain things with the kit.
But this one is a 1996 model, perhaps the newer kits have already addressed
the problems he had...
I got the pictures from the builders log with the plane when I bought it and
I still leaf through them probably once a week at least just to admire the
plane without the skins on it......
I still might go with a quickbuild on my next Kolb though, I hear the
factory does an outstanding job on them....
LS
N646F
>Lucien and Group,
>
>Lucien, you gave a very good write up on Kolbs! But as good as it is, I
>feel compelled to comment on the "apparently quite difficult
>construction":
>
>My Firestar II took me 11 weeks and 370 hours to build. To do that I
>took 5 weeks vacation from my job. I was the first plane that I built,
>too.
>
>I say building a Kolb is a "piece of cake", and I had FUN doing it.
>
>The only difficult part, for me, was the planning ahead, so that I
>always had something to work on, and didn't have to stop and wait for
>anything. But that wouldn't be a problem for someone not trying to meet
>a timeline. I needed to get the painting done before the Wisconsin
>weather turned too cold.
>
>John Jung
>Firstar II N6163J
>Surprise, AZ
>do not archive
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen"
><lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
>
>The only disadvantages I can think of are apparently quite difficult
>construction (though this looks like a non-issue with the quickbuild
>options!)
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb List: new to the List |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Lucien and Group,
I must agree wholeheartedly with JJ here I am afraid ...I have built 5
Experimentals now...and Nothing I have tackled even comes close to the ease
of building a Kolb.
I Built mine in a couple of months in evenings and weekends. (FireFly)...and
In fact...now that I have done one...I can see really no reason why I could
not build the entire wing and cover it in a day....that is the most assembly
of parts there is on a Kolb and there is no reason I can think of one man
couldnt do it in a long day.
IN fact...I can think of no better sales gimmick than for TNK to take a
firefly kit to OshKosh and build it there.... the others who build aircraft
there (at the show)to prove how easy it is...and then hurry up to fly it on
the last day...The Kolb crew could build a firefly on the first day...paint
it on the second....and fly it everyday for the rest of the show...probably
have 50 hours on it before the took it home...
Heck....I would even volunteer to work it....
.rut roh.....Hope Donnie and Travis are sleeping today......
anyway..here is my builders site for the fella who asked how hard it is...
If you dont go crazy whith the paint job,,....it takes no time at all
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List/Gap Seals |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Hi John,
John, My Mark III hasgap seals on the elevator, rudder and the wings. They work
very well.
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
Should the rudder and elevators be sealed too...
|
| DVD
DVD/Gang:
Plans did not call for them on any of my three different Kolbs. Gave
it some thought, but never got around to experimenting with elevator
and rudder gap seals, and sealing the area between vertical
stabilizers, upper and lower, where they mate with the tail boom.
Can't remember if anyone else I know has done that experimentation or
not.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Message 16
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|
required 4.6, BAYES_44 -0.00, HTML_50_60 0.10, HTML_MESSAGE 0.25)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <Lynnp@c-gate.net>
Hey gang,
Took some photos last night of how I made the support for the aileron torque tube.
I don't need the slider because I have flaps. Figured I would show everyone.
Also tossing in a few pics of the panels.
Enjoy.
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC150002.JPG
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC150003.JPG
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC150004.JPG
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC150005.JPG
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC150008.JPG
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC150010.JPG
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC150012.JPG
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PC150014.JPG
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
I.L.D.S.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List/Gap Seals |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Norm flew my MKIII which has vortex generators, and due to the lower
stall speeds, he suggested that I not add gap seals between the
elevators and the horizontal tail. He said it was possible I might get
into some really unexplored territory where no one could predict what
might happen, perhaps have the elevators hang in a bit longer than
before and the tail stall sharply instead of the elevators gradually
losing control authority like it does now. He did not think adding
vortex generators to both the wings and the underside of the horizontal
tail, or gap sealing the tail if you had VG's on the wing was a good
idea. However he liked the VG's on the wing a lot. I sure wish the
factory Xtra would have had them...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
roger lee wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi John,
>
> John, My Mark III hasgap seals on the elevator, rudder and the wings. They work
very well.
>
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
>
>John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
>
>Should the rudder and elevators be sealed too...
>|
>| DVD
>
>DVD/Gang:
>
>Plans did not call for them on any of my three different Kolbs. Gave
>it some thought, but never got around to experimenting with elevator
>and rudder gap seals, and sealing the area between vertical
>stabilizers, upper and lower, where they mate with the tail boom.
>Can't remember if anyone else I know has done that experimentation or
>not.
>
>john h
>MKIII/912ULS
>hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: new to the List/Gap Seals |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
My feeling is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Store bought aircraft going way
back have most all had aileron gap seals but no elevator, rudder seals. My
1931 Aeronca C-3 had the aileron seals. The professional engineers and the old
Dept. of Commerce and modern FAA thought that was the proper combination. My
first Kolb UltraStar was heavy handed and uncomfortable without them. I tried
without just for fun and they were back on immediately.
UltraStar .... TN
Ray
Do not Archive
Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike
Norm flew my MKIII which has vortex generators, and due to the lower
stall speeds, he suggested that I not add gap seals between the
elevators and the horizontal tail. He said it was possible I might get
into some really unexplored territory where no one could predict what
might happen, perhaps have the elevators hang in a bit longer than
before and the tail stall sharply instead of the elevators gradually
losing control authority like it does now. He did not think adding
vortex generators to both the wings and the underside of the horizontal
tail, or gap sealing the tail if you had VG's on the wing was a good
idea. However he liked the VG's on the wing a lot. I sure wish the
factory Xtra would have had them...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
roger lee wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee
>
>Hi John,
>
> John, My Mark III hasgap seals on the elevator, rudder and the wings. They work
very well.
>
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
>
>John Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
>
>Should the rudder and elevators be sealed too...
>|
>| DVD
>
>DVD/Gang:
>
>Plans did not call for them on any of my three different Kolbs. Gave
>it some thought, but never got around to experimenting with elevator
>and rudder gap seals, and sealing the area between vertical
>stabilizers, upper and lower, where they mate with the tail boom.
>Can't remember if anyone else I know has done that experimentation or
>not.
>
>john h
>MKIII/912ULS
>hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Memories and Merry Xmas!!! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
roger lee wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi John,
>
> Was having some trouble on cold mornings starting my 912s. I read your post
about reducing the plug gap to .025 from .028. I also took out the old battery
that was only 18 ah and put in a new Odessy gel cell 27ah battery. Fires right
up now.
>
> Thanks for the tip,
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
>
snipped
FWIW, an 18ah sealed lead-acid battery (not really a gel cell; different
technology) like the Odyssey will easily crank a hotrodded 10-1
compression IO-360 Lycoming if wiring is done right & the battery is in
good condition. With 27ah, you shouldn't even need gas for short flights.
Charlie
(obligatory ;-) here)
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