---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/17/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:53 AM - Re: Gap Seals (Bob and Jenn B) 2. 06:57 AM - MarkIIIvs Kolbra (David Key) 3. 08:44 AM - gap seals (b young) 4. 12:50 PM - Re: new to the List/Gap Seals (Jack B. Hart) 5. 02:12 PM - Re: Memories and Merry Xmas!!! (roger lee) 6. 03:00 PM - Batteries and 912ULS (John Hauck) 7. 05:37 PM - Re: NORMS MK3 CRASH (Ron) 8. 05:37 PM - Suki motor with a turbo (Ron) 9. 05:40 PM - Gap seals redux (lucien stavenhagen) 10. 06:07 PM - Re: Gap seals redux (John Hauck) 11. 08:16 PM - Re: Re: Gap Seals (Ed Chmielewski) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:24 AM PST US From: "Bob and Jenn B" Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Gap Seals --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob and Jenn B" My two cents, I tried gap seals on my ailerons on my Mk II and it did absolutely nothing. I know others who have tried them as well on Mk II's and no joy. I suspect it's the full length wide ailerons and 60mph speed that makes the change not as noticeable. Bob B Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:34 AM PST US From: "David Key" Subject: Kolb-List: MarkIIIvs Kolbra --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" I am longing for another Kolb but I've only had a Mark III. I am seriously looking at a Kolbra. I wanted to hear from someone that has flown in both. Besides the side by side seating what are the diffrences on how they feel? Thanks, David ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:49 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: gap seals --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" i put gap seals on my mkIII elevators and could not tell much difference...... but i took my old aileron seals off when i washed my plane last summert and flew around the pattern once to dry things off before installing new ones........ BELIEVE ME they make a lot of difference!!!!!! i have not ever put them on the rudder. boyd --------------- Should the rudder and elevators be sealed too... | | DVD DVD/Gang: Plans did not call for them on any of my three different Kolbs. Gave it some thought, but never got around to experimenting with elevator and rudder gap seals, and sealing the area between vertical stabilizers, upper and lower, where they mate with the tail boom. Can't remember if anyone else I know has done that experimentation or not. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:33 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: new to the List/Gap Seals --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" >At 05:39 PM 12/16/05 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike > >Norm flew my MKIII which has vortex generators, and due to the lower >stall speeds, he suggested that I not add gap seals between the >elevators and the horizontal tail. He said it was possible I might get >into some really unexplored territory where no one could predict what >might happen, perhaps have the elevators hang in a bit longer than >before and the tail stall sharply instead of the elevators gradually >losing control authority like it does now. He did not think adding >vortex generators to both the wings and the underside of the horizontal >tail, or gap sealing the tail if you had VG's on the wing was a good >idea. However he liked the VG's on the wing a lot. I sure wish the >factory Xtra would have had them... > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Richard & FireFlyer's, To help civilize the FireFly, I mounted VG's on the wings at 28.5 hours. The FireFly became much more solid and docile. VG's reduced stall speed, with no wing drop off and no clean break, just a mush. This would indicate the center of lift has moved more toward the rear. I found that at slow speeds and flying in ground effect there was little pitch control authority. As result one had to maintain higher speeds to keep pitch control crisp. To increase back stick reaction, I installed book binding tape back seals between the horizontal stabilizers and elevators at 43 hours. I could not feel much if any improvement. At 69 hours I added temp VG's to the underside of the horizontal stabilizer. These VG's increased back pressure feed back at low speeds. I can three point the FireFly with three degrees of flaperon and at lower speeds with out it becoming mushy in pitch. The current total flight time is 194 hours. The library tape needs to be replaced. This Spring, I will take it off and fly with out it to see if there is a change in performance. I doubt that I will replace the tape. Checking my records, I could not find that I have done any stall testing since adding the VG's to the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer. I added stall testing to my short list. Snow is a couple feet deep next to the hangar doors. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:53 PM PST US From: roger lee Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Memories and Merry Xmas!!! --> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee Hi Charlie, The 18ah battery was the original battery. When I talked to Lockwood, Rotax distributor and service facility, about the starting issue they said all the 912s were supposed to have a 28 ah battery. I will say it made a big difference. I am also installing this week the heavy duty starter. The heavy duty starter is supposed to have more torque and turning speed. We will see shortly. Take Care, Roger Lee Tucson, Az Charlie England wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England roger lee wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: roger lee > >Hi John, > > Was having some trouble on cold mornings starting my 912s. I read your post about reducing the plug gap to .025 from .028. I also took out the old battery that was only 18 ah and put in a new Odessy gel cell 27ah battery. Fires right up now. > > Thanks for the tip, > Roger Lee > Tucson, Az. > snipped FWIW, an 18ah sealed lead-acid battery (not really a gel cell; different technology) like the Odyssey will easily crank a hotrodded 10-1 compression IO-360 Lycoming if wiring is done right & the battery is in good condition. With 27ah, you shouldn't even need gas for short flights. Charlie (obligatory ;-) here) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:00:24 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Batteries and 912ULS --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" the 912s were supposed to have a 28 ah battery. I will say it made a big difference. I am also installing this week the heavy duty starter. | | | Roger Lee Roger L/Gang: Did the 1994 flight to Alaska with a 912 and a 14 ah Wal*Mart wet motorcycle battery. Had to get a jump start in Dead Horse, AK, when the temps below freezing. 2000 and 2001 flight to Alaska was with a 12 ah sealed battery. It got the job done with out any starting assistance. 2004 flight was with 16 ah Odesey sealed lead acid battery. It also got the job done, turning the 912ULS with a new high torque starter and slip clutch. The new starter and slip clutch were excellent improvements to the older 912ULS. Newer 912ULS's come with equipped with the starter and slip clutch. The 16 ah bat weighs 15 lbs. Don't have any documentation to back me up, only experience, but that big battery is probably an overkill. However, you may have a requirement for it. BTW the 12 ah battery would start the Cummins Diesel in my truck, without a whimper. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:14 PM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: NORMS MK3 CRASH --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" Glad to see you recovering. You are certainly handling all of this as best as anyone possibly can. See you in the sky sometime. Ron Arizona =================== -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris davis Subject: Kolb-List: NORMS MK3 CRASH --> Kolb-List message posted by: "chris davis" HI LIsters its been a year and a month since I was the passenger with Norm at the Kolb factory. Rest his soul, I was in the hospital til July 15 2005. I had a tour of the factory in the morn then donnys ears perked up and hr said" here comes our demo pilot" I had just bought a beautiful MK3From Bob Broucis, the day before and sold my firestar KXP two weeks before after 10 years of flying and dreams of the FAA light sport aircraft filling my mind and my heart. I had an excellent year commercial fishing and had been searching for a flyin community for 10 years. I found one and bought a 4 acre site and a new singlewide big enough for my my 85 year old ex pilot Dad and my step mom my wife and myself in O'Brien Florida thats on the Suwannee river in NW Florida , So taking a demo flight in the factories two place seem like a good idea , my last flight in a MK3 was in the late 80s at Sun and Fun with JOHN HAUCK well this decision was the last thing I remember until Jan 5, 2005. I dont remember Norm or the walkaround he did or the check ride and another walkaround that he and I did but my wife does !she was on the ground taking pictures and hoping for a great uneventful flight .I don't remember the fact that we did a touch and go and on the next flight my wife says " she heard and saw us take off and then we went behind the hanger and she thought " we left the area because she couldn't hear the Rotax" but is smart enough to know it was a quiet 4stroke Rotax not like my 503 but the she saw us come around the hanger with the engine out and crash into the end of the runway she was there right after Donny and he said "there both alive " as he ran to the phone , My wife Becky is an R.N.and ran to the planeopen the door and I sat up saying " my back" Norm wasn't moving she gave him mouth to mouth and he turned from blue to pink as the EMTs arrived got me out and said" he is gone" about Norm. What a great bunch of rescue people they have in London Kentucky, They put me in a helicopter and had me at University of Kentucky Hospital in a matter of minutes I was busted up pretty bad . Six broken ribs broken sternum a crushed ,80% spine my pelvis was broken into 9 pieces .which are now bolted together with 2 seven inch stainless lag bolts I've got two 3\8 stainless rods going down my spine and there is a spot above my tailbone that the two ss rods are boxed together to freeze the place where my spinal cord was crushed I say was because I am learning to walk, I can lift my body which weighed 148 lbs when I got out of the Hosp after 9months ,but now weighs alittle over 190ibs most of it is muscle University of Kentucky Hosp. is a wondrous place , They did a great job on me and they let my wife live in there waiting room for two weeks ,because she didn't want to be away from me ,I was in such bad shape .She is quite a woman 91\2 months in the hosp. she was by my side every day accept one there was 8ft of snow in the driveway caused her to miss a day!The reason am writing is That I had some really excellent lawyers that my wife Hired when they thought I was going to be a quadriplegic or worse they considered suing everyone ,ROTA,KOLB , THE PILOT I said no to them all Rota? we all know the 4 strokes run and the NTSB took the engine to Florida hooked it up to pure fuel and ran it for hours ran like a dream ,KOLB we all know that Kolb's are so well designed that if I had been in another ultrslight type aircraft we would both probly be dead ,crome moly cockpit and all , the PILOT I didn't want to hurt his family , then the insurance company that held the Liability policy that Norm had paid for for years told my lawyers there would be no argument .he paid for it and they would pay me ! no harm to his wife or kids and I am going to make a deposit in the Labhart children's fund after all in htis KOLB family we are all -- brothers& sisters are we not ? one more thing I would like to say the reason I think you all know why I didn't sue KOLB is I still want to build a MKIII and I believe I will . first I need to build a shop and hanger in O'Brien the get a kit and work my way through it . in 3or4or5 years maybe I will fly , MY wife says she won't stop me , WHAT A WIFE she is the reason I live . Thanks for all the good will you all wished us back in November Norm was lucky to have you all for friends . Sorry about the long story vie haven't had a computer fo a while . it would be great to hear from any of you any time . a KOLBER forever Chris davis cape cod ma.& O'Brien Fl. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:14 PM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: Kolb-List: Suki motor with a turbo --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" Bob B. sorta suggested that I repost this message here. Which makes sense as Richard S. is doing or may have already finished doing the same thing. ------------- Folks I am about to make a call and send off 600 smackers for a 1.0 ltr Suzuki with a turbo. This is what I know is to be delivered. One motor low mileage (according to the seller) and one turbo charger. I also know that I will need the following; a starter, a radiator, an ignition system, and adopter plate and plumbing for the turbo, and of course an RDU. The Rdu I can leave for later as we have two qualified gentlemen here (yahoo Geo list) that can help me with that. What I would like to get in terms of input is just what all I will need to do the day the crate arrives at my door step. It would be great if you would tell me in as much detail what you would do, from the minute the create is on the garage floor. No detail will go un Appreciated. Plus it will be guidance to all of us. (Main problem is that I cannot find any 1.3 liter motor in Southern Arizona at all, and as some of you have commented that the 1.0 liter with a turbo is as Sufficient as a 1.3 Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukah as the case may be. Ron Arizona (Needing to get that Big Kolb finished, all the other little things have been done and I have nothing to stall the project with any longer) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:09 PM PST US From: "lucien stavenhagen" Subject: Kolb-List: Gap seals redux --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" Hey All, Just an FYI, I made some temporary aileron gap seals for my FS II out of packing tape with a strip of light cloth down the middle (to keep the tape from sticking and crumpling up as the ailerons were moved) and flew around with them a bit today. Yep, just like my r/c airplanes, the tape made a significant difference. The roll rate was higher and there was just overall more aileron (seemed like slightly less adverse yaw too, perhaps the seals reduce drag as well). I'm going to do some more test flying tomorrow if the weather holds. But it sure seemed to help with the aileron authority. I guess now I have to plan some permanant ones, a-la the drawing on the kolb list photos.... Never done dope and fabric, but I guess this will be a good way to start.... I'll have to ask a bunch of ignorant fabric work questions on here I guess ;).... LS N646F ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:10 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gap seals redux --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" | I'll have to ask a bunch of ignorant fabric work questions | on here I guess ;).... | | LS LS/Gang: Not necessary if you read and study the Poly Fiber Manual before you get in over your head. Best place to start is with Jim and Dondi Miller. You can go to their web page, get their toll free number, call and ask all the dumb questions you can come up with. They have a lot of good answers. Have been invaluable to most of us on the Kolb List when it came to covering and painting our Kolbs. http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/ Glad the gap seals helped. That is why they are included in the plans and instructions for Kolb airplanes. john h MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, al ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:22 PM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Gap Seals --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" Hi Bob, My MkII has them, built in 1988. It's awaiting restoration, I can't comment on flying qualities since I haven't flown it. I've got the plans around somewhere, will see what they have for info. I doubt the original builder did the seals on his own but will try to find out. Ed in JXN (MI) MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob and Jenn B" Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Gap Seals > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob and Jenn B" > > My two cents, I tried gap seals on my ailerons on my Mk II and it did > absolutely nothing. I know others who have tried them as well on Mk II's > and no joy. I suspect it's the full length wide ailerons and 60mph speed > that makes the change not as noticeable. > > Bob B > > Do Not Archive > > >