Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:06 AM - Jabiru 2 cylinder - is it real (jerb)
2. 04:52 AM - Re: Re: Verner Engines (Kirk Smith)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: Battery box (Paul Petty)
4. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Verner Engines (Jack B. Hart)
5. 06:31 AM - Re: Gas Tanks larger than 5 gallons (Paul Petty)
6. 07:27 AM - Re: John W's SP Article (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
7. 07:32 AM - Re: Jabiru 2 cylinder - is it real (ray anderson)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Verner Engines (John Hauck)
9. 08:31 AM - Re: John W's SP Article (woody)
10. 09:17 AM - Re: Verner Engines (John Williamson)
11. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: Verner Engines (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
12. 11:03 AM - brake shoes (boyd)
13. 11:25 AM - Re: Wing Attach Spacers (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
14. 11:32 AM - Kolb List Participation (John Hauck)
15. 11:43 AM - glider wings on UltraStar? (Masqqqqqqq@aol.com)
16. 11:56 AM - Re: Verner Engines (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
17. 12:56 PM - washout/trim (rlaird)
18. 01:14 PM - Re: washout/trim (rlaird)
19. 01:25 PM - Re: washout/trim (robert bean)
20. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Verner Engines (mike moulai)
21. 01:55 PM - Re: Kolb List Participation (Kirk Smith)
22. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: washout/trim (mike moulai)
23. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: washout/trim (lucien stavenhagen)
24. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: Verner Engines (lucien stavenhagen)
25. 03:34 PM - Re: Wing Attach Spacers?... (John Jung)
26. 04:26 PM - Re: washout/trim (HShack@aol.com)
27. 04:36 PM - 40 MPH Stall (Ralph Hoover)
28. 04:48 PM - Re: Kolb List Participation (Mike Schnabel)
29. 05:16 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (Richard Pike)
30. 05:20 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (Ralph)
31. 05:24 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (possums)
32. 05:33 PM - Re: Verner Engines (John Williamson)
33. 05:34 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (James Tripp)
34. 05:50 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (flht99reh)
35. 05:50 PM - Re: washout/trim (JetPilot)
36. 05:57 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (flht99reh)
37. 06:06 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (flht99reh)
38. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: 40 MPH Stall (lucien stavenhagen)
39. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: 40 MPH Stall (flht99reh)
40. 06:26 PM - Re: Verner Engines (JetPilot)
41. 06:29 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (Larry Cottrell)
42. 06:31 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (Mike Pierzina)
43. 06:33 PM - Re: glider wings on UltraStar? (JetPilot)
44. 07:19 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (possums)
45. 08:00 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (possums)
46. 08:07 PM - Re: glider wings on UltraStar? (Richard Swiderski)
47. 08:33 PM - Re: 40 MPH Stall (Possum)
48. 08:42 PM - Re: Kolb List Participation (Don G)
49. 09:33 PM - test (Larry Cottrell)
50. 09:37 PM - Re: test (Matt Dralle)
51. 09:42 PM - [ Dave Pelletier ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jabiru 2 cylinder - is it real |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
So is Jabiru really going to build a 2 cylinder to compete with
smaller Rotax's. I spoke with the man himself a couple years ago at
Sun & Fun, he seemed very firm like he didn't want to do business in
that competitive area. They had an article in the Australian UL
magazine back in 97 I believe it was about having developed a 2
cylinder but then didn't produce it. Much be looking to increase
their revenue stream. heard any definite when there to be on the market?
jerb
At 06:46 PM 1/11/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
>
>I keep my UltraStar just about 400 - 500 feet from the Jabiru
>'factory' or US distribution facility now located on the
>Shelbyville, TN airport. It's here that customers can come and
>assemble their aircraft with the Jabiru engines. It's a great
>looking combination and there is a couple of customers assembling
>every day. I believe it takes about two weeks and is licensed as
>homebuilt with the customer doing a little over 50% of the work to
>be legal. This has been going on now for about 8-10 months and a lot
>of them have flown away with happy owners. I don't know of any that
>have come back or reported trouble, so the Jabiru engine can't be
>too mediocre. There seems to be a line up of customers waiting for a
>spot to build and fly. Business is so good that Jabiru has asked
>for a new building twice as large. They are getting ready to produce
>a two cylinder version of the engine.
>
>JetPilot <orcabonita@hotmail.com> wrote: --> Kolb-List message
>posted by: "JetPilot"
>
>
>David.Lehman wrote:
> > [Well John, I suppose this is a major "DUH!", but the local
> engine is available because he replaced the Verner on his GT500
> with a new Jabiru...
> >
> > DVD
>
>
>Hahaha, not to bright a guy, he went from buying a horrible engine
>to buying a mediocre engine...
>
>The Roatx 912S is a far superrior engine to either of those. I would
>save for as long as it takes to get a great engine rather than throw
>away what you have on something you will never be happy with.
>
>Michael A. Bigelow
>
>--------
>NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3041#3041
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your
> hands ASAP.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
One of the things about the Verner engine that made me hesitant was the hp
per cylinder. They are getting 40 hp/cyl. Everything else that I was aware
of in the 80-100 hp range gets from 15-25 hp/cyl. Jump up to the O-320
Lycomings and then there's 40 hp/cyl but this is a much more massive engine
than a Verner. Just seemed to me they were over stressing that little
engine.
I'd like to see how a Jabiru 2200 would perform on a Kolb with a gear
reduction unit so a larger prop could be spun.
Do not archive
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <lynnp@g-gate.net>
Thanks Ralph. I made the battery box from scrap aluminum laying around the shop.
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3251#3251
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 07:34 PM 1/11/06 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
>The data sheet says that any of those engines fit the power, weight, etc. parameters
for the airplane... So they are saying that particular airplane will safely
fly with any of those engines. That does NOT mean that those engines are
all equal, or even that they are good engines....
>
>As to why the verner has such a bad reputation, because its a really crapppy engine....
Michael,
Do you have personal experience with the Verner?
The same can be said about any engine, such as, a Model T and Model A Ford
that are flying in Pietenpols. The plane was designed around the engine.
These people are not crazy. They just like the idea, sound, feel and smell
of the engine in flight.
I found the Rotax 447 to be very uncivil and I changed engines to something
I thought would be better. And so far, except for a few coolant leaks that
were my fault, it has been a very good engine.
There are so many "good" engines out there that never make it to market.
The market place determines what is a good engine. The trick is to match
the engine to the plane and to meet the owner's expectations and desire for
performance too. If an engine does not work out, one can build a plane on
which it will work well, adapt it to some non-aircraft use, sell it to
someone else, or use it for a boat anchor.
I am sure that there are those out there that love their HKS, Hirth, and yes
even the Verner engine.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tanks larger than 5 gallons |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <lynnp@g-gate.net>
John,
What did was cut one steel tube and make a sleeve on each side to reinstall the
tube after the fuel tank was installed. Then I made a cardboard model of the
fuel tank and shipped it to Mark German of Areofab. He welded up a nice aluminum
fuel tank complete with stainless steel hold downs and made me custom aluminum
saddels for it to rest on the tail boom. Very pleased :D
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3258#3258
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: John W's SP Article |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <neilsenrmf@comcast.net>
Johns/All
John H thanks for the post. I can't wait to see the real thing. Waiting for
my mail to be forwarded.
John Williamson - Thanks for writing the article. This is a wonderful!!!! It
makes it very clear that you don't have to fly 900 miles per hour and spend
a zillion dollars to travel in your own airplane. The our group, industry,
and Kolb owes you one big "hoo raaaaaaaaa!!!!".
OK the rest of you start writing. Mary at EAA's Sport Pilot will publish if
you write. So much more fun reading about our airplanes than those fast $$$
ones.
You don't suppose that we could talk that Alaska pilot into sharing some of
his flights with the world.
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:37 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: John W's SP Article
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/Hauck's%20Stuff/Kolb%20Stuff/John%20W's%20SP%20Article/
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 2 cylinder - is it real |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
I'll try and get the latest info the next time I go to the airport and post it
here. I hope they are serious about it,
Ray
UltraStar ..TN
DO NOT ARCHIVE
jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb
So is Jabiru really going to build a 2 cylinder to compete with
smaller Rotax's. I spoke with the man himself a couple years ago at
Sun & Fun, he seemed very firm like he didn't want to do business in
that competitive area. They had an article in the Australian UL
magazine back in 97 I believe it was about having developed a 2
cylinder but then didn't produce it. Much be looking to increase
their revenue stream. heard any definite when there to be on the market?
jerb
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your
> hands ASAP.
>
>
---------------------------------
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
better
| some of what I was trying to say so I decided to share the following
with
| the group.
|
| <<<<I won't stick my neck into the line of fire but from a mature
point of
| view engine, airplane, and all sorts of other stuff comes down to a
| matter of priorities.
| As stated above I too could write a check for a Rotax 912 but I
won't. If I
| was going to do the kind of flying the Johns do it would be worth it
to me
| but I don't. For the kind of flat land flying I do my VW is just
fine.
| Rick Neilsen
Rick and your anonymous friend/All:
I'm not trying to sell Rotax, nor am I bad mouthing the Verner. The
question was: "Does anyone have any info on the Verner." I tried to
share that info in a "mature" manner, based on observations and
reports from owners/operators. Reread the post I addressed to you
yesterday, please.
I'm not trying to talk anybody into or out of anything. I figure they
are mature enough to be flying, they are mature enough to choose the
airplane and powerplant they wish to fly.
I would like to share a thought on flying. Most accidents occur
within the local flying area. Local flying is no safer or easier than
cross country flying. Most aircraft accidents happen in the local
flying area. Flat land flying doesn't exempt anyone from the hazards
of flying. Gravity is not prejudice. Treats everyone the same, no
matter what the geographic location. And...............the ground is
hard, whether Rocky Mountains or a flat farm field in Michigan. And
the water is just as wet.
My priorities and requirements for flying are to be as safe and
comfortable with my hobby as possible. That's my priorities. Like
someone said a few minutes ago: God bless America where we can do
what we want with our Kolbs. I for one, sure agree with that
statement. NOTE: Please identify yourselves. Most Kolb folks like
to know who they are talking to, as a matter of courtesy. Also, Matt
Dralle asked that we use our first and last name for ID.
Folks, no need to go back copy with comments that should be aired on
the List. The List doesn't learn anything from what we can not share.
I'm still looking for the firing line, and/or the line of fire. When
somebody finds it, let me know. :-)
Personally, I could care less what anyone flies on their Kolbs.
However, I have been flying Kolbs for a while and I think what I am
flying and have been flying is the best there is to offer. No matter
what one chooses to use for power, please be careful, and share your
experiences with us, so we can learn too. Because I also like to
share my experiences, does not mean I do not want to learn about
yours. I believe I have as much right to express my experiences,
strengths, and hopes, on the Kolb List as anyone else. Everyone on
the Kolb List is created equal!!! Some of us have more experience
than others. Can't change that. That also means some of us have
broken more airplanes than others too. hehehe Hope we learn from it
all.
Take care,
john h
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: John W's SP Article |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
>
Rick is right about writing articles. Have any of you wondered about all
the Challenger articles that are written. You must think they are the best
aircraft in the world judjing by the owners stories. I think they just have
a great PR machine. An owner pilot writes in about a trip and the Challenger
PR group rewrites it and makes it into a thinly veiled advertisment for
Challengers. Great business idea and they are to be congratulated on the
effort. I have flown 2 Challengers. I must be spoilled by Kolb because I
wouldn't give a rats ass for either of them and beg off on any future offers
to fly one.. Just my opinion but they don't seem to live up to the great
stories I have read about them. Kolbers should be writing a bit more. John
should write something on his adventures and Beauford should write one for
the humour. Newbies on the list unfortunately have not read one of Beaufords
rants or about his kitten fuzzbutt. They were classics.
The unsubscribe page does not seem to be working for me so untill it
does I will keep reading the posts and mouthing off on occasion.
> John Williamson - Thanks for writing the article. This is a wonderful!!!!
It
> makes it very clear that you don't have to fly 900 miles per hour and
spend
> a zillion dollars to travel in your own airplane. The our group, industry,
> and Kolb owes you one big "hoo raaaaaaaaa!!!!".
>
> OK the rest of you start writing. Mary at EAA's Sport Pilot will publish
if
> you write. So much more fun reading about our airplanes than those fast
$$$
> ones.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
Hi Rick and All,
I flew the Verner 133.
I just don't advertise that I flew it because it was such a BAD experience.
Cheap is not always a bad way to go. Expensive is not always the best way to go.
I tried a cheap engine and I got a cheap engine.
I tried an expensive engine and got a very reliable engine.
--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3309#3309
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <neilsenrmf@comcast.net>
John
That's fine but BAD is rather subjective. Was there allot of vibration, lack
of thrust (more or less than the Jabiru), high temps, high fuel burn, good
or bad climb, slow or fast cruise etc. Please give us something we can
evaluate(more or less than the Jabiru and/or 912). I assume you are
referring to the replacement engine?
Most of us aren't A & Es but if the price was right maybe your BAD would be
FINE??????
John I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass. You are the only one that has
had this experience or at least telling us they did. Please, I would like
the details.
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:17 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Verner Engines
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson"
> <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
>
> Hi Rick and All,
>
> I flew the Verner 133.
>
> I just don't advertise that I flew it because it was such a BAD
> experience.
>
> Cheap is not always a bad way to go. Expensive is not always the best way
> to go.
>
> I tried a cheap engine and I got a cheap engine.
>
> I tried an expensive engine and got a very reliable engine.
>
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd" <by0ung@brigham.net>
I never have had any luck cleaning shoes with oil in them and getting a
satisfactory result. If you haven't already make sure that the shoe your
having problems with is actually being forced against the drum properly.
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
I think I mentioned the other day to use a can of brake parts cleaner in an
aerosol can.. If that doesn't work... take to some who does steam
cleaning and blast it with live steam.. I had an aluminum gas tank that
developed a leak... I wanted to get it welded instead of just pouring in
the slosher sealer.. The welder would not weld on a fuel tank until it
had been to a steam cleaner.. I took an old gas water heater and
converted it so I could put a propane burner in it.. Put about 5 gal of
water in it and ran 2 old washer machine hoses from the top of the heater
without any restrictions into the fuel tank... then let it run for about
an hour.. couldn't smell any thing in the tank and welded it without
incidence..
For something like a brake shoe.. Maybe a dry cleaner company that uses
steam to get out stains...
Boyd
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Attach Spacers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
<< I worry about a shear load spread out over that much length of the pin...
Or is this simply a low load area such that this is plenty of strength? >>
Lucien, and Fellow Kolbers -
The wing spar clevis pin in our Kolbs is a 5/16 inch diameter pin. It is
made of high-strength alloy steel, rated at 125,000 pounds per square inch.
If you do the math, you'll find that this little pin can withstand about
10,000 pounds in shear. Since our planes have TWO of these pins supporting
wings, it would take 20,000 pounds of wing force to fail a pin.
My Mark-3, when loaded to its gross weight of 1000 lbs, would have to pull
20 g's to do this. (Caveat: John Hauck, who routinely flies his Miss P'Fer
at 1200 lbs, would only have to pull 17 g's ... be careful, John!) With
this kind of airframe load, it's a safe bet that something else is gonna
fail first.
Dennis Kirby
Cedar Crest, NM
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Kolb List Participation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Everyone:
I doubt anyone on this List has been knocked down, drug around, kicked between
the legs, slandered, slaughtered the way I have been over the last 8 years I have
closely following what my fellow Kolb friends are doing. At times, it is
very, very difficult to put up with this kind of crap, but I love my little Kolb
airplanes and the people that build and fly them. So I have hung around.
Email is a tough communications medium, and folks are going to take the written
word differently than some people intend for it to be taken. I know. I do that
myself, only to find out later I was wrong. When I am wrong, I usually post
a msg to the List admitting it.
Back copy msgs about what is going on on the Kolb List, about what is being discussed,
does not help the Kolb List. Fear of being right or wrong because of
what you would like to post to the List, but for some reason are afraid to post
do not help the rest of us understand what is being discussed.
I have always felt the Kolb List was one big family. Right or wrong, we are still
family. When I post my thoughts and feelings about my experiences or what
I prefer, I feel it is my right to be able to do that without being attacked
for it. Same as anybody else feels about their posts. If I like the engine I
fly with, it is my right to have that preference. If you don't like it, it is
also completely alright. Doesn't mean that I am bad mouthing anybody else's
stuff.
Come on gang, let's be big boys and girls and try to carry on a decent discussion
without feeling we are right or wrong, or somebody is going to dump on us because
of our feelings and preferences. By chance if they do, hit the delete
button and drive on. I am a slow learner................
I am as interested in alternative power for Kolbs as anyone else on the Kolb List.
Because I fly with a Kolb powered by a Rotax does not take away from my natural
curosity to learn about other means of power.
I have recently gotten involved with antique tractors, but I don't fight with folks
that drive Dodge or Ford trucks because I drive a Nissan pickup. Nor do
I bad mouth my friend that owns a different brand tractor than mine. There is
a lot to learn from everyone, the good, the bad, the right and the wrong.
I want to encourage everyone to post to the List about what they are doing and
how they are doing it. I have been accused of burning up most of the band width
on the Kolb List, and maybe I do. Maybe if some more of you all would sit
down and do some sharing instead of complaining, we could all benefit by it and
I would not be so wordy. :-)
Take care my friends,
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
MKIII/912ULS
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3352#3352
Message 15
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| Subject: | glider wings on UltraStar? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Masqqqqqqq@aol.com
I hope this doesn't sound too outlandish.......but......
I have 1984 Kolb UltraStar which I purchased used in 1994. I've flown
it often, and love it. It's powered by a 447 Rotax.
Lately, I find myself interested in unpowered gliders. Here's the
question: Has anyone ever replaced the wings on an UltraStar with the larger
glider style wings, removed or downsized the engine, and had a glider? I suspect
there would be some balance issues to address, but I'm wondering if it's been
done.
Rich Iverson
Stevens Point, WI
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Rick Neilsen wrote: << I still haven't heard any evaluation on a Verner
engine (statistics or facts not just hear say) ... Please keep a open mind
and allow others to contribute. >>
Kolb Friends -
This thread began when David Key asked the simple question, "Whaddaya all
think about the Verner engine?" As a former Verner owner on my Kolb, I feel
obliged to pass on my experiences.
Most of you might recall that I originally built my Mark-III with a
Verner-1400 80 hp engine. Because of reliability issues with the Verner, I
replaced it this past summer with a 912ul. Although the engine itself ran
beautifully, the reduction drive unit was experiencing some kind of
torsional harmonic vibration that was causing the prop hub bolts to fail on
a regular (every 6 hours of flight time) basis.
Although the US distributor from whom I purchased this engine has put
forth exceptional effort in working with me by replacing the broken
parts and trying to help me solve the problem, we were getting
zero support or help from the factory in Czech Republic.
I'm presently very happy with my Rotax-912. I'm sure there are Verner
engines out there that have accumulated hundreds of hours of trouble-free
service for their owners. Unfortunately for me, mine was not one of them.
Dennis Kirby
1996 Mark-III, "Magic Bike" in
Cedar Crest, NM
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "rlaird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
The Kolb MkIIIc/912ULS I have has a strong tendency to turn left. The bungee cord
does a fair job of countering that, but I'd like to effect a bit more nominal
solution.
So, I have TWO questions:
1) I'm thinking about adding an aileron trim. Can anyone suggest approaches to
doing that, suggest methods/materials, and maybe even details on how to do it.
2) I've been told by at least two people, "oh, check your washout!" as if to say
that might solve my strong-left-turning-tendency. And although I have a very
general idea what washout is, I would have no idea about how to MEASURE it
and then, if were "wrong", how to correct it.
Any constructive comments?
-- Robert
--------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
MkIIIc/912ULS
Houston, TX
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3382#3382
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: washout/trim |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "rlaird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
I just realized that I didn't describe my problem correctly. The MkIII does "turn
left", it banks left. In other words, if I apply right aileron enough to
keep the wings level, then the plane flies fairly straight. So, it's not rudder
correction I need (I think), it's aileron..... I think.
--------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
MkIIIc/912ULS
Houston, TX
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3389#3389
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: washout/trim |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Aileron trim is the easy way to go. A foot long tab (along the
aileron) that is only perhaps an inch
wide would be less conspicuous than my shorter/more stickinout
temporary/permanent
style.
I do intend, after more important matters, to eliminate it. Either by
angle of attack
(washout/in) or some tailfeather adjustment.
Without messing with the front spar attach parts you can create some
offset
at the rear attach universal joint. That point can also adjust sweep
angle
with a spacer at the face of the frame mating junction.
-BB
On 12, Jan 2006, at 3:55 PM, rlaird wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "rlaird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>
> The Kolb MkIIIc/912ULS I have has a strong tendency to turn left. The
> bungee cord does a fair job of countering that, but I'd like to effect
> a bit more nominal solution.
>
> So, I have TWO questions:
>
> 1) I'm thinking about adding an aileron trim. Can anyone suggest
> approaches to doing that, suggest methods/materials, and maybe even
> details on how to do it.
>
> 2) I've been told by at least two people, "oh, check your washout!"
> as if to say that might solve my strong-left-turning-tendency. And
> although I have a very general idea what washout is, I would have no
> idea about how to MEASURE it and then, if were "wrong", how to correct
> it.
>
> Any constructive comments?
>
> -- Robert
>
> --------
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Robert Laird
> MkIIIc/912ULS
> Houston, TX
> http://www.Texas-Flyer.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3382#3382
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "mike moulai" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Jack/All,
I think thae HADS for the X-Air sums it up.
Remember speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?.
My Xtra with NEW type Jab 2200 cruises at 75kt all day long (approx 84mph I
think it is) more if I open the tap up< considering the price difference to
the 912 I think I can live with the minute speed difference, and feel happy
about the much simpler engine turning much slower than all other
installations and the muck lighter weight than the other 4 strokers.
Mike
Xtra/New type Jab with big prop
135hrs of purring at no more than 3100 rpm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Verner Engines
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> I was curious as to why the Verner seems to have such a bad reputation. I
> stumbled across the following site:
>
> http://www.bmaa.info/upload/techdocs/20041061154110.Hm01_22.pdf
>
> BRITISH MICROLIGHT AIRCRAFT ASSOCIATION
> HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT DATA SHEET (HADS)
> NO: HM1 ISSUE: 22
>
> This is a data sheet for an XAir (UK), and was put together in 2004.
>
> There is an interesting table on the bottom of page five. The BMWR100RS
> was
> fitted with Rotax C gear boxes and a comparison can be made to the Verner
> 133M. For the C boxes listed with the 3.0:1 ratio and the Verner all
> recommended propeller sizes were 68 inches. But the Rotax gear boxes
> could
> swing a three blade propeller while only a two blade propeller was
> recommend
> for the Verner. This indicates the Verner engine gearbox was not designed
> to handle high inertia propellers.
>
> The report last page contains a table that compares X'Air aircraft
> performance using the Rotax 582, Jabiru 2.2, Simonini V2, HKS700E, Rotax
> 912, and Verner 133M engines.
>
> This data sheet indicates that all of the above engines can be used safely
> on the X'Air. Which engine you select depends on your desire for
> performance and the size of your pocket book. Pretty much the same can be
> said for Kolb designs.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb List Participation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
< I want to encourage everyone to post to the List about what they are doing
and how they are doing it.>
I appreciate your contributions to the list John. I doubt anyone has
contributed more expertise to the list than you.
I'm sitting on my s here but thinking about maybe getting back to work on my
Mark 3. It's only been 13 years in the oven now..........snuf
Do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: washout/trim |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "mike moulai" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Rob,
The MkIII wing should be built with no washout.
I asked TNK to produce some larger Rear wing attach brackets for the
European market which they have done.
The reason for this was that if a wing was built with a twist it would not
fly wings level, and if flown solo it will also fly with one wing down, the
new brackets allow you to alter the angle of attack of each wing seperately,
so you can fine tune the aircraft by adding washers in these brackets until
the wings stay level. No bungees or trim tabs needed. This works very well.
Contact TNK if you like, they will have them in stock.
Mike
Xtra/Jab 2200
----- Original Message -----
From: "rlaird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:14 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: washout/trim
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "rlaird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>
> I just realized that I didn't describe my problem correctly. The MkIII
> does "turn left", it banks left. In other words, if I apply right aileron
> enough to keep the wings level, then the plane flies fairly straight. So,
> it's not rudder correction I need (I think), it's aileron..... I think.
>
> --------
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Robert Laird
> MkIIIc/912ULS
> Houston, TX
> http://www.Texas-Flyer.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3389#3389
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: washout/trim |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Hey Robert,
My FSII has a trim tab on the right aileron, installed according to the
plans which show that it's riveted to a pair of the 'ribs' in the aileron
(if I'm remembering the attachment correctly here at work). This one is made
out of clear lexan, I'll try to get some closeup pics of it next time I'm
out at the airport and remember to bring my camera.
It also has a rudder trim tab as well, which produces coordinated flight at
cruise power (and a moderate slip to the left at idle power), it also is
riveted to the rudder as per a description in the plans.
So yes you can add them.
If your plane is anything like my Firestar, there should be very little roll
coupling with the rudder (i.e. not much tendency to roll when yawed), so
timming should be fairly straightforward. I.e. trim out the roll with the
aileron tab, and trim out yaw at typical cruise power with the rudder trim
tab.
As far as washout, that refers to a twist in the wing panel such that the
outboard part flies at a lower AOA than the inboard (main purpose is to
prevent 'tip stalling'). However, according to some Kolb documentation that
came with my plane, no washout is used in the Kolb wings (at least there
isn't any in mine) and a low-aspect ratio was chosen for stability instead.
So, that is probably not something you need or want to try to adjust.....
Like I said, I'll try to get some pics of my trim tabs and get them posted
ASAP. I need to post pics in general of this plane anyway since it's a
cream-puff. The original builder is one of these guys who absolutely details
every plane he builds (you should see this Rans he built to replace the Kolb
before he sold it to me!) and this thing just looks like a showplane even
after almost 500 hours of operation....
Even these trim tabs are like jewelry....
I wish I could brag that I built it, but oh well....
LS
N646F
>From: "rlaird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: Re: washout/trim
>Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:14:12 -0800
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "rlaird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>
>I just realized that I didn't describe my problem correctly. The MkIII
>does "turn left", it banks left. In other words, if I apply right aileron
>enough to keep the wings level, then the plane flies fairly straight. So,
>it's not rudder correction I need (I think), it's aileron..... I think.
>
>--------
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Robert Laird
>MkIIIc/912ULS
>Houston, TX
>http://www.Texas-Flyer.com
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3389#3389
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Speaking of the Jabiru,
I can make at least a 2nd hand report. A local has a 2200 on an older
MarkIII. He has about 400 hours on it so far without any problems.
It performs surprisingly well with the little direct drive prop, and seems
not to overheat on the ground with the pusher configuration (he has the
scoops mounted up top). Not sure how that works but it does.
The only drawbacks I can see are the fact that its cost is nearly the same
as a 912 all said and done, and is restricted a bit in terms of prop size
due to the direct drive and 3100 rpm or so max power output speed.
But I can't argue with the results he's getting. I"m kind of a Rotax
shellback and would get a 912 myself, especially since the costs are
similar, but the jab definitely looks like a good reliable motor...
LS
N646F
>Jack/All,
>I think thae HADS for the X-Air sums it up.
>Remember speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?.
>My Xtra with NEW type Jab 2200 cruises at 75kt all day long (approx 84mph I
>think it is) more if I open the tap up< considering the price difference to
>the 912 I think I can live with the minute speed difference, and feel happy
>about the much simpler engine turning much slower than all other
>installations and the muck lighter weight than the other 4 strokers.
>
>Mike
>Xtra/New type Jab with big prop
>135hrs of purring at no more than 3100 rpm
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:18 AM
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Verner Engines
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart"
><jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
> >
> > Kolbers,
> >
> > I was curious as to why the Verner seems to have such a bad reputation.
>I
> > stumbled across the following site:
> >
> > http://www.bmaa.info/upload/techdocs/20041061154110.Hm01_22.pdf
> >
> > BRITISH MICROLIGHT AIRCRAFT ASSOCIATION
> > HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT DATA SHEET (HADS)
> > NO: HM1 ISSUE: 22
> >
> > This is a data sheet for an XAir (UK), and was put together in 2004.
> >
> > There is an interesting table on the bottom of page five. The BMWR100RS
> > was
> > fitted with Rotax C gear boxes and a comparison can be made to the
>Verner
> > 133M. For the C boxes listed with the 3.0:1 ratio and the Verner all
> > recommended propeller sizes were 68 inches. But the Rotax gear boxes
> > could
> > swing a three blade propeller while only a two blade propeller was
> > recommend
> > for the Verner. This indicates the Verner engine gearbox was not
>designed
> > to handle high inertia propellers.
> >
> > The report last page contains a table that compares X'Air aircraft
> > performance using the Rotax 582, Jabiru 2.2, Simonini V2, HKS700E, Rotax
> > 912, and Verner 133M engines.
> >
> > This data sheet indicates that all of the above engines can be used
>safely
> > on the X'Air. Which engine you select depends on your desire for
> > performance and the size of your pocket book. Pretty much the same can
>be
> > said for Kolb designs.
> >
> > Jack B. Hart FF004
> > Winchester, IN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Attach Spacers?... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
Group,
I just recently installed nylon spacers on the lower lift struts. I did it because
the struts were wearing the paint off on one side. I got the spacers at Lowes
for a couple of dollars. They would be a hassle to put on and off if I had
to fold the wings, but I don't do that any more.
On the top spar pin, I believe the extra space is there because the rear attach
point slides in and out on an angle when the wings are rigged. In addition to
that, the fuselages change shape slightly when the are welded. A wide gap insures
that it will fit.
--------
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3433#3433
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: washout/trim |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 1/12/2006 6:08:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
slyck@frontiernet.net writes:
Without messing with the front spar attach parts you can create some
offset
at the rear attach universal joint.
After changind cages on my FS II, I had a right turn that I came close to
correcting with John Hauck's bunjii method. Didn't like the looks of it, so
ordered the wider rear universal joint from TNK [$75 incl. frt.]. Allows raising
or lowering the rear of the wing by about 1/4".
Not enough in my case, as I still have a slight turn to R. Think I'll order
another one & put it on the other side. Not sure why I had the turn, as the
wing incidences, using my Warp Drive protractor, were the same.
If your incidence is way off, I bet TNK would be willing to fabricate up a
bracket to give 1/2" adjustment up or down.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@netzero.com>
:( Kolbers. I have a problem. My 1990 Kolb Firestar KXP single seat, with 503 DIDC
has a stall speed of 40 MPH plus. Now this is in calm air in late fall. Twice
my instructor has flown it, as I am still in the instruct-ee's seat. And
both time, because I have specifically asked "what speed does it stall?", the
reply has been the same...40 ish!
[Evil or Very Mad]
There are no holes anywhere. It has a complete enclosure, with the exception of
backside. It has the alerons stits covering (underside) between the alerons and
the wing. According to my instructor it flys like a home sick angle. He said
that it doesn't have any side to side misallignment and the stick stays streight
for streight flight. I have looked under the motor to see if perhaps the
motor is raised or lowered from flat. It's not.
HELP !!! [Crying or Very sad] [Crying or Very sad]
I won't mind landing at 45-50 in calm air if I have too. But when I hear the average
from the Kolb site and from THNK Company and Travis as being closer to 25
MPH, I gotta think I have a problem. Now my instructor weighs in about 190#
and I and the previous owner at around 230 #. There is nothing different about
the plane from the origional plans that I can find except the longer legs, which
would not or should not effect it's flight charistics to any degree. I have
not weighed it or checked its balance for location of center of gravity, but
again my instructor didn't feel that it was very far off if at all. Somehow I
have to gets my hands on three 300# mechanical scales to check this area out.
But still where in your humble opinion(s) does the problem lie (or lay)? My last
thought might be something regarding adjusting the aleron rods in or out (up
or down on the alerons). Could these be the calprets! (
%$
%#$%
spell checker)!! :D :D
New Kolber with a desire to know (as well as a need). [Idea]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3450#3450
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb List Participation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com>
John H,
I could not agree with you more! Very well said. As much satisfaction that I
get from reading this list, I dismay when I read the derogatory posts, criticizing
one another. I guess I am not smart enough to understand the rhyme or reason
for the negative words.
As a new Kolb owner (long time fan), I have gained a wealth of knowledge from
reading this list with all the many years of experience of the members, and for
them not to share those experiences would be a shame. Just as it would equally
be a shame for any of the less experienced (like me) to be afraid to ask questions
out of fear of ridicule. We all were newbies at one time or another,
and just as life, so the learning curve goes on and on.
Thanks to ALL the members for your contributions, patience, and understanding...
Mike S
Manchester TN
Firestar 2 503
(almost forgot).... do not archive :-)
John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
Hi Everyone:
I doubt anyone on this List has been knocked down, drug around, kicked between
the legs, slandered, slaughtered the way I have been over the last 8 years I have
closely following what my fellow Kolb friends are doing. At times, it is very,
very difficult to put up with this kind of crap, but I love my little Kolb
airplanes and the people that build and fly them. So I have hung around.
Email is a tough communications medium, and folks are going to take the written
word differently than some people intend for it to be taken. I know. I do that
myself, only to find out later I was wrong. When I am wrong, I usually post
a msg to the List admitting it.
Back copy msgs about what is going on on the Kolb List, about what is being discussed,
does not help the Kolb List. Fear of being right or wrong because of what
you would like to post to the List, but for some reason are afraid to post
do not help the rest of us understand what is being discussed.
I have always felt the Kolb List was one big family. Right or wrong, we are still
family. When I post my thoughts and feelings about my experiences or what I
prefer, I feel it is my right to be able to do that without being attacked for
it. Same as anybody else feels about their posts. If I like the engine I fly
with, it is my right to have that preference. If you don't like it, it is also
completely alright. Doesn't mean that I am bad mouthing anybody else's stuff.
Come on gang, let's be big boys and girls and try to carry on a decent discussion
without feeling we are right or wrong, or somebody is going to dump on us because
of our feelings and preferences. By chance if they do, hit the delete button
and drive on. I am a slow learner................
I am as interested in alternative power for Kolbs as anyone else on the Kolb List.
Because I fly with a Kolb powered by a Rotax does not take away from my natural
curosity to learn about other means of power.
I have recently gotten involved with antique tractors, but I don't fight with folks
that drive Dodge or Ford trucks because I drive a Nissan pickup. Nor do I
bad mouth my friend that owns a different brand tractor than mine. There is a
lot to learn from everyone, the good, the bad, the right and the wrong.
I want to encourage everyone to post to the List about what they are doing and
how they are doing it. I have been accused of burning up most of the band width
on the Kolb List, and maybe I do. Maybe if some more of you all would sit down
and do some sharing instead of complaining, we could all benefit by it and
I would not be so wordy. :-)
Take care my friends,
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
MKIII/912ULS
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3352#3352
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 40 MPH Stall |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Get a good GPS and go fly some 120 degree triangles in the stillest air
you can find, take notes, fly at 45, 55, 65, and see if your airspeed
indicator is flawed. Ours was.
Also, we tried having the pitot come out above the nose cowling and
curve forward, and never got a decent result. It has to either come out
the nose or below the nose to work right ( at least that was out
experience) Eventually we learned that the pitot has to be in an
acceptable place, (and we also have the static air right beside it) and
a faulty airspeed indicator will really waste a lot of your time.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
FSII N582EF
Ralph Hoover wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@netzero.com>
>
>:( Kolbers. I have a problem. My 1990 Kolb Firestar KXP single seat, with 503
DIDC has a stall speed of 40 MPH plus. Now this is in calm air in late fall. Twice
my instructor has flown it, as I am still in the instruct-ee's seat. And
both time, because I have specifically asked "what speed does it stall?", the
reply has been the same...40 ish!
> [Evil or Very Mad]
>There are no holes anywhere. It has a complete enclosure, with the exception of
backside. It has the alerons stits covering (underside) between the alerons
and the wing. According to my instructor it flys like a home sick angle. He said
that it doesn't have any side to side misallignment and the stick stays streight
for streight flight. I have looked under the motor to see if perhaps the
motor is raised or lowered from flat. It's not.
>
>HELP !!! [Crying or Very sad] [Crying or Very sad]
>
>I won't mind landing at 45-50 in calm air if I have too. But when I hear the average
from the Kolb site and from THNK Company and Travis as being closer to
25 MPH, I gotta think I have a problem. Now my instructor weighs in about 190#
and I and the previous owner at around 230 #. There is nothing different about
the plane from the origional plans that I can find except the longer legs, which
would not or should not effect it's flight charistics to any degree. I have
not weighed it or checked its balance for location of center of gravity, but
again my instructor didn't feel that it was very far off if at all. Somehow
I have to gets my hands on three 300# mechanical scales to check this area out.
But still where in your humble opinion(s) does the problem lie (or lay)? My
last thought might be something regarding adjusting the aleron rods in or out
(up or down on the alerons). Could these be the calprets! (
>%$
>%#$%
> spell checker)!! :D :D
>
>New Kolber with a desire to know (as well as a need). [Idea]
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3450#3450
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 40 MPH Stall |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
Ralph,
I think your ASI is not reading right.
Ralph B.
Original Firestar
19 years flying it (stalls at 25mph, ASI reads 20 due to AOA)
-- "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@netzero.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@netzero.com>
:( Kolbers. I have a problem. My 1990 Kolb Firestar KXP single seat, with 503 DIDC
has a stall speed of 40 MPH plus. Now this is in calm air in late fall. Twice
my instructor has flown it, as I am still in the instruct-ee's seat. And
both time, because I have specifically asked "what speed does it stall?", the
reply has been the same...40 ish!
[Evil or Very Mad]
There are no holes anywhere. It has a complete enclosure, with the exception of
backside. It has the alerons stits covering (underside) between the alerons and
the wing. According to my instructor it flys like a home sick angle. He said
that it doesn't have any side to side misallignment and the stick stays streight
for streight flight. I have looked under the motor to see if perhaps the
motor is raised or lowered from flat. It's not.
HELP !!! [Crying or Very sad] [Crying or Very sad]
I won't mind landing at 45-50 in calm air if I have too. But when I hear the average
from the Kolb site and from THNK Company and Travis as being closer to 25
MPH, I gotta think I have a problem. Now my instructor weighs in about 190#
and I and the previous owner at around 230 #. There is nothing different about
the plane from the origional plans that I can find except the longer legs, which
would not or should not effect it's flight charistics to any degree. I have
not weighed it or checked its balance for location of center of gravity, but
again my instructor didn't feel that it was very far off if at all. Somehow I
have to gets my hands on three 300# mechanical scales to check this area out.
But still where in your humble opinion(s) does the problem lie (or lay)? My last
thought might be something regarding adjusting the aleron rods in or out (up
or down on the alerons). Could these be the calprets! (
%$
%#$%
spell checker)!! :D :D
New Kolber with a desire to know (as well as a need). [Idea]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3450#3450
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 40 MPH Stall |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 07:36 PM 1/12/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@netzero.com>
>
>:( Kolbers. I have a problem. My 1990 Kolb Firestar KXP single seat,
>with 503 DIDC has a stall speed of 40 MPH plus. Now this is in calm
>air in late fall. Twice my instructor has flown it, as I am still in
>the instruct-ee's seat. And both time, because I have specifically
>asked "what speed does it stall?", the reply has been the same...40 ish!
> [Evil or Very Mad]
>
>I won't mind landing at 45-50 in calm air if I have too. But when I
>hear the average from the Kolb site and from THNK Company and Travis
>as being closer to 25 MPH, I gotta think I have a problem. Now my
>instructor weighs in about 190# and I and the previous owner at
>around 230 #. There is nothing different about the plane from the
>origional plans that I can find except the longer legs, which would
>not or should not effect it's flight charistics to any degree.
--------------------------------------
I'll bet either he hasn't really stalled it or your air speed
indicator is wrong.
Mine is heavier than yours could possible be and I've got the stall
or "mush" down to about 28 mph.
BTW : I would always land a little fast if I were you, we don't get no
extra points for three point landings here.
There are very few things that you can do to
your plane that does anything at all for the performance -
after spending lots of time and money it
sometimes actually degrades the performance of what you
were trying to do anyway.
I've spent lots of $ for nothing several times.
I've got over 670 hours on this one
I was just surprised at what these little things would actually do
for the amount of
time and money invested. I fly my plane slow - a lot. I fly my plane
at stall speed at lot.
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/
http://www.landshorter.com/index.html
A lot more control a just above stall. I used the little lexan
"Landshorter" ones - about 42 + per wing, used the pattern they
sent for the layout. They're even hard to see unless you look close.
It takes two of these to make one of the homemade ones some of the guys use.
URL: <http://sos.photosite.com/Album1/>http://sos.photosite.com/Album1/
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot2@comcast.net>
Rick and All,
When I say "BAD," that means that I wouldn't want to be flying in the same vicinity
of an aircraft with the Verner 133.
I said it had a terrible vibration.
It was 78 hp verse 80 hp on the Jabiru it was going to replace.
I could mount a 3 blade Warp Drive prop instead of the 2 blade Warp Drive prop
on the Jabiru.
With the gearbox on the Verner 133, it had more torque than the Jabiru with the
direct drive.
I only flew it long enough to know that I did not want to fly it any more and put
the Jabiru back on the Kolbra. Sometimes you just "Know" that something isn't
right.
You can't compare the performance of the Verner 133 to the Jabiru or the Rotax
912 ULS because the engines are so different in performance capabilities and their
intented applications.
As for engine support: Rotax is supported by a long list of retailers. The Verner
has three reps that I know of and the one I bought mine from was worthless.
The Jabiru has three dealers here in the USA that I know of. I bought mine from
Pete, who is now in TN, and supported me every time I called him.
The maintenance schedule on the Jabiru was one of my big deciding factors to look
for something else. The tappet check and headbolt retorque every 25 hours gets
old real quick when you fly 50 hours on a two week trip and have to do them
in the middle of no-where.
--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3469#3469
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| Subject: | Re: 40 MPH Stall |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
Ralph,
My FSII also stalls right at 40MPH IAS. I'm 200 lbs and the empty weight of my
FS is 445 lbs. I'm almost certain my ASI reads at least 5 MPH high and probably
does so because I don't have a static port. I haven't bother to fix it because
it just doesn't matter. I just need to know what the stall speed is with the
indicator I have.
--------
James Tripp
FSII
Millbrook AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3470#3470
Message 34
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Ralph B. I wish you were right. However, according to my instructor who has
been flying for years and knows appearances of air speed, he says NO WAY! I
would know if it were that far off. A few MPH perhaps but not that much. He
typically lands his trainer a (yuk) Challenger at his filed at around 50
with the two of us in it. But just to eliminate that as a problem, once
reassembled, I have both a new Winter ASI and the MGL avionic Flight-2 glass
gauge to tell me. And if they both lie or dispute, then it's the gumball
machine on the outside of the side windscreen.
I wish you were correct. I even have added since the second (last flight) a
static line to the outside of the cockpit, per TNK advise. This may have
been part of the culprit. We shall see. Thank you for your help. A
Are we to continue to use the words do not archive in this new BBS?
Ralph "the other Ralph" Hoover
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 40 MPH Stall
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
Ralph,
I think your ASI is not reading right.
Ralph B.
Original Firestar
19 years flying it (stalls at 25mph, ASI reads 20 due to AOA)
-- "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@netzero.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@netzero.com>
:( Kolbers. I have a problem. My 1990 Kolb Firestar KXP single seat, with
503 DIDC has a stall speed of 40 MPH plus. Now this is in calm air in late
fall. Twice my instructor has flown it, as I am still in the instruct-ee's
seat. And both time, because I have specifically asked "what speed does it
stall?", the reply has been the same...40 ish!
[Evil or Very Mad]
There are no holes anywhere. It has a complete enclosure, with the exception
of backside. It has the alerons stits covering (underside) between the
alerons and the wing. According to my instructor it flys like a home sick
angle. He said that it doesn't have any side to side misallignment and the
stick stays streight for streight flight. I have looked under the motor to
see if perhaps the motor is raised or lowered from flat. It's not.
HELP !!! [Crying or Very sad] [Crying or Very sad]
I won't mind landing at 45-50 in calm air if I have too. But when I hear the
average from the Kolb site and from THNK Company and Travis as being closer
to 25 MPH, I gotta think I have a problem. Now my instructor weighs in about
190# and I and the previous owner at around 230 #. There is nothing
different about the plane from the origional plans that I can find except
the longer legs, which would not or should not effect it's flight charistics
to any degree. I have not weighed it or checked its balance for location of
center of gravity, but again my instructor didn't feel that it was very far
off if at all. Somehow I have to gets my hands on three 300# mechanical
scales to check this area out. But still where in your humble opinion(s)
does the problem lie (or lay)? My last thought might be something regarding
adjusting the aleron rods in or out (up or down on the alerons). Could these
be the calprets! (
%$
%#$%
spell checker)!! :D :D
New Kolber with a desire to know (as well as a need). [Idea]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3450#3450
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: washout/trim |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.c wrote:
> The original builder is one of these guys who absolutely details
> every plane he builds and this thing just looks like a showplane even
> after almost 500 hours of operation....
> Even these trim tabs are like jewelry....
>
>
> LS
> N646F
>
>
Now you gotta post the pictures [Mr. Green] I want to see this plane. I also
would like to see the trim tabs as I am working on a trim tab system of my
own and want to see what everyone else has done.
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3478#3478
Message 36
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Thanks Richard. I replied to the "Good" Ralph on this site and added a few
comments of which included static line (as full cockpit exists on this
plane), and changing ASI's to a new Winter. So are you to say that now, you
are stalling at 25 range? That sure would make my heart rate a tad milder.
By the way, my predecessor in ownership did install the Pitot tube in the
center of the bull's eye on the nose cone and it is approximately one foot
long. I'll add that I have not yet changed the fuel tank to anything
different than the factory 5 gallon, should weight dispersement be anything
to concern myself about.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 40 MPH Stall
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Get a good GPS and go fly some 120 degree triangles in the stillest air
you can find, take notes, fly at 45, 55, 65, and see if your airspeed
indicator is flawed. Ours was.
Message 37
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Possum, ya make my eyes water! Your web site and that jacket is way too
much. As far as the Vortex goodies, I have read a lot about them on this
site. I may add them at a latter date along with some other goodies.
However, that still doesn't explain why the high stall rate. I appreciate
your input and will keep a copy of your answer. Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of possums
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 40 MPH Stall
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 07:36 PM 1/12/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@netzero.com>
>
>:( Kolbers. I have a problem. My 1990 Kolb Firestar KXP single seat,
>with 503 DIDC has a stall speed of 40 MPH plus. Now this is in calm
>air in late fall. Twice my instructor has flown it, as I am still in
>the instruct-ee's seat. And both time, because I have specifically
>asked "what speed does it stall?", the reply has been the same...40 ish!
> [Evil or Very Mad]
>
>I won't mind landing at 45-50 in calm air if I have too. But when I
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: 40 MPH Stall |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien stavenhagen" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
>Ralph,
>My FSII also stalls right at 40MPH IAS. I'm 200 lbs and the empty weight of
>my FS is 445 lbs. I'm almost certain my ASI reads at least 5 MPH high and
>probably does so because I don't have a static port. I haven't bother to
>fix it because it just doesn't matter. I just need to know what the stall
>speed is with the indicator I have.
>
Mine also stalls around 40 as well, actually about 42 or 43 IAS with full
gas. Mine is 440lbs empty weight and I'm about 185lbs.
So doesn't sound to me like there's a problem. We got 140 sq feet of wing
area on the FSII after all, so even heavy-ish planes like mine have plenty
of lift for good climb rates and slow landings.
Remember also that in the flare your stall speed will be even lower due to
ground effect, so you should still be able to touch down quite a bit slower
than 40mph.
LS
N646F
>--------
>James Tripp
>FSII
>Millbrook AL
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3470#3470
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: 40 MPH Stall |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
James, you know when someone tells you something and it doesn't make any
sense and then someone else tells you the same thing in a different way, a
light comes on. Well the light came on. The problem still exists but now I
see where someone said "just need to know what the stall speed is with the
indicator I have." And now I understand. It could read eighty and still be
twenty-five (of courses that would mean that I would typically fly at around
115 when cruising). HA, HA!
Thanks. I would rather fix it rather than continue with it in that way. I
think! Thanks for you advise.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Tripp
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 40 MPH Stall
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James Tripp" <jtripp@elmore.rr.com>
Ralph,
My FSII also stalls right at 40MPH IAS. I'm 200 lbs and the empty weight of
my FS is 445 lbs. I'm almost certain my ASI reads at least 5 MPH high and
probably does so because I don't have a static port. I haven't bother to fix
it because it just doesn't matter. I just need to know what the stall speed
is with the indicator I have.
--------
James Tripp
FSII
Millbrook AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3470#3470
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
neilsenrmf(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> Also some of the comments I'm seeing on the list aren't very constructive. I
still haven't heard any evaluation on a Verner engine (statistics or facts not
just hear say) (May be John W but he never flew it) and we are getting comments
such as ...
>
> Remember Verner has
> made at least two different engines and maybe the newer engines are better.
>
Most of us can read about others experiences and make a really good, educated judgement
about an engine. If you need an "evaluation" with "statistics" to figure
things out, well there will be a LOT of things in life you dont figure out...
Most of us can, but there are always those few that cannot look at the
obvious and see it.
"Maybe the newer engines are better"
You are more than welcome to be the test case on that one. I would never buy from
a manufacturer that has a horrible record just on the hopes that " Maybe the
newer engines are better". Again, you miss the obvious...
"The engine matches the airplane"
The Rotax 912 seems to match everything, Kolbs, Diamond, Kitfox, Air Force Predator,
Trikes, the list is endless. In the end, the Rotax 912S is just a great
engine that will work no matter what you put it on. Inferrior engines will
only work on a very small range of applications. Again, the quality and design
of the engine determines how many applications it will work on, and the Rotax
912 wins hands down.
In the end, its just a question if you want to spend the money or not. Not everyone
can afford the 912, I have been there, and I totally respect that... But
as poor as I was before, I never forgot what was the superior engine and what
I would one day buy.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3491#3491
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: 40 MPH Stall |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@netzero.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: 40 MPH Stall
> :( Kolbers. I have a problem. My 1990 Kolb Firestar KXP single seat, with
> 503 DIDC has a stall speed of 40 MPH plus.> I won't mind landing at 45-50
> in calm air if I have too. But when I hear the average from the Kolb site
> and from THNK Company and Travis as being closer to 25 MPH, I gotta think
> I have a problem.
Ralph,
I purchased my Firestar in 1997. It weighed 278 lbs. I weighed 230, It
stalled at 46 MPH. I did a few changes that involved more weight (360) and
the stall went up a bit but not more than 2 MPH. Then I installed VG's to
each full rib and the stall dropped to 36 MPH. This last year I put them on
the false ribs as well and the stall dropped to 26 MPH. I believe that
Possums bought his from Landshorter.com, and paid about $100.00. I made
mine from plans developed by Howard Shackleford. I have some made from alum,
and some made from lexan. I believe that I like those the best. I do believe
that it will cost you about 2 mph on your cruise, but that is a choice that
I am happy to live with. I know how you feel about the stall speed since
that was one of the factors that decided me on a Kolb, since most of the
places that I would be landing would be other than on a runway. I too
wondered why mine stalled so fast. So I believe that the speed you are
experiencing is a bit more realistic.
Larry, Oregon
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: 40 MPH Stall |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hi,
You wrote to me after my first flight in my Kolb....
Like I had told you when you were wondering about my stall speed...
Like I said to you then.... When you go up , Your first flight should be a short
one.....get up to 3000 ft and "APPROACH" a stall ......NOT A FULL STALL......
then you'll have the info you need to be safe....
And it does sound like a "STATIC" problem that your having...
Got a digital camera ??? lets see PICTURES , CLOSE UPS.....
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN FSII / N381PM
I bought one of those "Hall" mechanical wind guages as a "Check" because I couldn't
believe how SLOW I was flying before stall...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3496#3496
Attachments:
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| Subject: | Re: glider wings on UltraStar? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
There would be a LOT of drag issues. Its not just the wings, you need a new fuse
also... In the end, you are better off just building a glider from the ground
up if that is what you want.
If you try to make a powered ultralight into a glider, you will end up putting
a huge amount of work into it and still have a dog that will not glide well.
That is a really bad idea...
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3497#3497
Message 44
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 09:06 PM 1/12/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
>
>
>Possum, ya make my eyes water! Your web site and that jacket is way too
>much. As far as the Vortex goodies, I have read a lot about them on this
>site. I may add them at a latter date along with some other goodies.
>However, that still doesn't explain why the high stall rate. I appreciate
>your input and will keep a copy of your answer. Thanks
How many "Ralphs" we got??
Anyway, my wings are 9 inches shorter than my old
1989 KXP. The ribs are the same as yours. the wing tips are
different - so the lift should be about the same.
I'm sure my plane weighs in just under 400 LBS -- Oooch.
I hate to admit that - it's like asking some little thing
if's she's pregnant (she'd better be). Or how old are you honey?
Message 45
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 08:49 PM 1/12/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
>
>Ralph B. I wish you were right. However, according to my instructor who has
>been flying for years and knows appearances of air speed, he says NO WAY! I
>would know if it were that far off.
Oh -- BTW I've got a $35 "Hall ASI" on my nose cone, Air Speed Indicator
in the Instrument panel and Garmon GPS 295 inside.
So I'm pretty sure my airspeed is right, but the Hall is the most accurate.
Before the VG's my stall speed was only around 36 mph - so don't
expect miracles.
Message 46
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| Subject: | glider wings on UltraStar? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Hey Rich,
I often thought about doing what you are thinking with my old US. I
could catch thermals with engine off here in FL & get 100-150 fpm lift
sometimes, but usually it wasn't enough to get too far. I came close to
adding 3ft wing extensions using a piano hinge connection, but ended up
selling it, (I still wake up crying about that.) I was raised in Mosinee,
just north of you & still have family up there. -Richard Swiderski
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Masqqqqqqq@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:44 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: glider wings on UltraStar?
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Masqqqqqqq@aol.com
I hope this doesn't sound too outlandish.......but......
I have 1984 Kolb UltraStar which I purchased used in 1994. I've
flown
it often, and love it. It's powered by a 447 Rotax.
Lately, I find myself interested in unpowered gliders. Here's the
question: Has anyone ever replaced the wings on an UltraStar with the
larger
glider style wings, removed or downsized the engine, and had a glider? I
suspect
there would be some balance issues to address, but I'm wondering if it's
been
done.
Rich Iverson
Stevens Point, WI
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: 40 MPH Stall |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Possum" <possums@mindspring.com>
Just a test....
Oh -- BTW I've got a $35 "Hall ASI" on my nose cone, Air Speed Indicator
in the Instrument panel and Garmon GPS 295 inside.
So I'm pretty sure my airspeed is right, but the Hall is the most accurate.
Before the VG's my stall speed was only around 36 mph - so don't
expect miracles.
Actually got a glass panel - but still have my "Hall" as
a back up. Ha Ha
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3535#3535
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_005_183.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb List Participation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
YEssiree..ditto here men...John H says it pretty well I think..and I appreciate
his experience an awful lot. ANd your way of speaking JOhn..or typeing, does
not bother me abit.
As for me...I dont care if anyone thinks I might be wrong whenever I expand on
a subject, and I sure dont mind anyone to say so.
Heck, how boreing would it be if we all had the same take on everything...besides
the fact I could be mistaken and might not have thought it all out without
someone jarring me into a brain exercize!..
"If we all stood in a circle around the pond, one thing is for sure, we all would
see the same water from a different angle!"
Don G
--------
Don G
FireFly#098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3539#3539
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
Does the messages show up on the BB when sent to the regular list? I thought
they did, but I am not sure.
Larry,
Oregon
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
At 09:32 PM 1/12/2006 Thursday, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
>
>Does the messages show up on the BB when sent to the regular list? I thought
>they did, but I am not sure.
>Larry,
>Oregon
>
Yup! Cross posting works in BOTH directions.
Matt Dralle
List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
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| Subject: | [ Dave Pelletier ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Dave Pelletier <pelletier@cableone.net>
Lists: Kolb-List,Ultralight-List
Subject: Tie Down Lock - Control Stick
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