Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Travels (Mike Schnabel)
2. 12:17 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Travels (Mike Schnabel)
3. 05:03 AM - Re: Kolb Travels (Airgriff2@AOL.com)
4. 05:10 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Travels (snuffy@usol.com)
5. 05:43 AM - Kolb Travels (Chris Mallory)
6. 06:17 AM - Re: Mode C Veil Question (Thom Riddle)
7. 06:29 AM - Frank email (Diego Ospina)
8. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Travels (Ralph)
9. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Mode C veil question (Thom Riddle)
10. 07:11 AM - Re: Mode C Veil Question (Richard Pike)
11. 07:37 AM - VG's (russ kinne)
12. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Travels (George E. Thompson)
13. 07:58 AM - Re: Mode C Veil Question (N27SB@aol.com)
14. 08:14 AM - Re: Re: Mode C veil question (N27SB@aol.com)
15. 08:28 AM - Re: VG's (Jack B. Hart)
16. 08:40 AM - Re: VG's (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
17. 09:27 AM - Re: VG's (possums)
18. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sportChoices we make and the downside to our sport (Thom Riddle)
19. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Travels (George Bass)
20. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (mike moulai)
21. 12:38 PM - Re: Fellow aviator makes his final flight (bill_joe)
22. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (pat ladd)
23. 02:07 PM - "Fat" and two-place Ultralights (jdmurr@juno.com)
24. 03:01 PM - Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (JetPilot)
25. 03:01 PM - Re: "Fat" and two-place Ultralights (Ralph)
26. 05:20 PM - Re: Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sportChoices we make and the downside to our sport (Larry Bourne)
27. 05:22 PM - Re: VG's (JetPilot)
28. 05:28 PM - Re: DC-9 (JetPilot)
29. 05:53 PM - Re: VG's (Mark)
30. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: VG's (John Hauck)
31. 06:23 PM - Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com)
32. 06:33 PM - Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com)
33. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: VG's (Richard Pike)
34. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: VG's (russ kinne)
35. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: VG's (John Hauck)
36. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: VG's (Denny Rowe)
37. 07:58 PM - Trailering a Kolb (George T. Alexander, Jr.)
38. 08:00 PM - Re: transponder cert (Robert Noyer)
39. 08:09 PM - Re: VG's (JetPilot)
40. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: VG's (John Hauck)
41. 08:25 PM - Re: Re: VG's (John Hauck)
42. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (possums)
43. 08:50 PM - Re: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (possums)
44. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (Robert Noyer)
45. 09:15 PM - Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (John Hauck)
46. 09:17 PM - Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (John Hauck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Travels |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com>
John, another very nice pic, looks like your are approaching at about 100 mph!
Mike S
Manchester TN
Firestar 2 503
John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John
Hauck"
This photo was taken by a professional photograper as I was shooting an approach
into the flight farm.
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scan0017_212.jpg
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Travels |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com>
I for one would read any of John's amazing flight stories, but if he is going
to write a block buster, no doubt either of the Alaska travels would be great,
add in the pictures and I say instant aviation best seller! A great follow up
would be a compilation of the many lower 48 continental flights, like the Flight
Farm story amongst others.
Mike S
Manchester TN
Firestar 2 503
do not archive
Richard & Martha Neilsen <neilsenrmf@comcast.net> wrote:
What do you guys think would you like to see John H publish something???
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Travels |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
>
> > This photo was taken by a professional photograper as I was shooting an
> approach
> into the flight farm.
>
Oh, the good ol days! I was there at the Flight Farm too flying my paraplane
at the time. Watching you fly your fs and your MK3 is how I ended up
building and flying my MK3 C. Seeing you fly at those shows could only make one
say,
"gotta have one of those"!
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
near Albany NY
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Travels |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
>
> What do you guys think would you like to see John H publish something???
HELL YES!!!! Many times I've looked at the photos of John's trips and
imagined myself being there too. Only in my daydreams will I ever get to
doing anything like that. ............
Do not
archive
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" <wcm@tampabay.rr.com>
Most books contain a lot of BS and fantasy. A book of John's past adventures
wouldn't even require the use of artistic license and would really be an
inspirational tool for countless aviators or would be aviators that even if
they couldnt ever do it themselves, they could still live the experience
and dream the dream through the words of one who has.
I say BOOK.
Chris Mallory
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Mode C Veil Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Kolbers,
The regulations "certificated with electrical system". This means that
when the aircraft received its airworthiness certificate, if it had an
electrical system, then it requires the transponder within the veil.
There is no differentiation between Type Certificated and experimental
or UL "vehicles".
Thom in Buffalo
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Diego Ospina <dospi@epm.net.co>
Does anyone know Frank Reinen's email?. Maybe he can help about my float
issues.
Do not archive
Diego Ospina
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Travels |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
"What do you guys think would you like to see John H publish something???"
Absolutely! The flights he has made are the dreams of most aviators and people
that would love to fly.
I would recommend John make a "picture book" with just a few words as John W did
in the Sport Pilot magazine. If not that, get someone to create a website to
show his adventures. John remembers Ed Dart, the trike guy that crashed in the
middle of the desert a few years ago. He has a good website of his adventures.
John can make his far better and more interesting.
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
19 years flying it locally
-- "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <neilsenrmf@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <neilsenrmf@comcast.net>
John H
I know you have declined to write about your trips in the past many times
and I respect your decision but you keep teasing us with your incredible
photos. One more time my friend then I will stop, please consider sharing
something with the world. Two of your friends have published articles in
Sport Pilot how about you? You could do a short preamble like John W did and
include the photos with the descriptions you have already done and shared
with us after each one of your trips. I will write Mary at EAA's Sport Pilot
and see if she is interested (I know she is) if you like. Throw another log
on the fire and take advantage of the cold weather and do some writing.
A few people have again asked that you write a book. You have the
experiences that would make a great one. Last year I read a Steven Coonts
book called Canable Queen about a pilot that flew a Stearman back and forth
across the US. He is making a small fortune on an a basic travel log that
has no comparison to any one of your trips. This group has some very
talented people that have offered to assist you in the past. I took
advantage of some of them when I wrote the Monument Valley article and they
made me look like a real writer. Seems like I remember someone even offering
to write from your dictation. I would treasure having a book written by you
about your flights to Alaska. Most of us can only dream of doing that kind
of flight.
Please!!! No bullshit the flying world needs to know that there are people
that can enjoy exploring our great country in something less than a big $$$
airplane flying a zillion miles and hour. I would be happy to suggest to
Mary that you just need a bit more urging and you will send her an article.
What do you guys think would you like to see John H publish something???
Sorry John
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Travels
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> For those interested, here is a good article about the Granduc Copper
> Mine and the diaster that occurred soon after it was opened.
>
> http://www.explorenorth.com/library/yafeatures/bl-granduc1.htm
>
> It is possible to reach the old mine by 4wd. However, during its
> operation, a tunnel was dug through the mountain, 20 km or so, I don't
> remember exactly and have not reread the article, to haul out the ore,
> rather than try to haul it out on the hazardous mine road which would
> have been closed by snow in the winter months.
>
> john h
>
>
>
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Mode C veil question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Part 103 is very specific about operating rules including where it
cannot operate legally. See
http://www.ultralighthomepage.com/FAR.part103.html
Specifically see the following section:
Sec. 103.17 Operations in certain airspace.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within an airport
traffic
area, control zone, airport radar service area, terminal control area,
or
positive control area unless that person has prior authorization from
the air
traffic control facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.
The areas referred to in this section I think would include the area
within the Mode C Veil.
Thom in Buffalo
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Mode C Veil Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
I disagree.
An ultralight is a vehicle, it is not an aircraft,
(We are talking FAR's here, not appearances or behaviors)
and specifically does not have an Airworthiness Certificate.
An ultralight is not required to have any particular equipment.
An Experimental or Type Certificated aircraft is exactly that, an
aircraft, and can
have or be required to have all sorts of stuff that ultralights don't.
There is no reason to put a transponder on an ultralight, since ATC doesn't
interact with ultralights like they do with aircraft anyway.
Richard Pike
TRI ATCT (retired)
Thom Riddle wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
>Kolbers,
>
>The regulations "certificated with electrical system". This means that
>when the aircraft received its airworthiness certificate, if it had an
>electrical system, then it requires the transponder within the veil.
>There is no differentiation between Type Certificated and experimental
>or UL "vehicles".
>
>Thom in Buffalo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
With all the talk about VG's I haven't heard anything about how
they're to be lined up fore-and-aft. Any specs on this? If they're
straight into the wind I don't believe they'll do diddley. Look at a
commercial jet's wings -- esp. the 727. The VG's are twisted about
10-15 degrees. They are after all meant to create turbulence right at
the boundary layer -- how can they do this if they're edge-onto the
apparent wind?
Glaciers -- thanx John for a GREAT pic of some marvellous country!
Glaciers are soooo cool, esp. with a gravel strip at their foot. We
did a lot of glacier flying on the Icefield Ranges in the Yukon years
ago, in Helio Couriers, marvellous aircraft. Before I got there
they'd lost an engine, then changed it out UP ON THE GLACIER! Flew
in the new engine, three long 4x4's, a chain hoist, and went at it.
Engine was a 540 as I recall. Not your typical maintenance --
Only real txp problem I ever had was flying over Portland ME jetport
years ago at 3500', photographing the coast. Didn't talk to tower or
ATC . Later talked to Brunswick NAS (to go thru their airspace), and
they asked me to call PTL. When I did they said my txp readout was
1300'!! -- which must have startled them a little. I pointed out that
while the radar room has no windows, the tower sure does, and they
could so easily have looked out the window and seen I was NOT at
1300', but at 3500'. Vis was excellent that day. Anyway, I
apologized but pointed out that I was flying perfectly legally, and
have a nice day. That was the end of it. But no doubt my N-number had
a flag on it (another??) from then on.
Fly safe, have fun,
Russ K
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Travels |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George E. Thompson" <eagle1@commspeed.net>
Go for it John, I know you will have serveral "for sure" sales here in
Arizona.
Az Bald Eagle
----- Original Message -----
From: <snuffy@usol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Travels
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
>
>
>>
>> What do you guys think would you like to see John H publish something???
>
>
> HELL YES!!!! Many times I've looked at the photos of John's trips and
> imagined myself being there too. Only in my daydreams will I ever get to
> doing anything like that. ............
>
> Do not
> archive
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Mode C Veil Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 1/16/06 8:17:39 AM Central Standard Time,
jtriddle@adelphia.net writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> The regulations "certificated with electrical system". This means that
> when the aircraft received its airworthiness certificate, if it had an
> electrical system, then it requires the transponder within the veil.
> There is no differentiation between Type Certificated and experimental
> or UL "vehicles".
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
Thom, I think that you are right in your interpretation. However I did not
want to try to explain the rule to the local FAA.
Steve
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Mode C veil question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 1/16/06 8:57:43 AM Central Standard Time,
jtriddle@adelphia.net writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> Part 103 is very specific about operating rules including where it
> cannot operate legally. See
> http://www.ultralighthomepage.com/FAR.part103.html
>
> Specifically see the following section:
> Sec. 103.17 Operations in certain airspace.
>
> No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within an airport
> traffic
> area, control zone, airport radar service area, terminal control area,
> or
> positive control area unless that person has prior authorization from
> the air
> traffic control facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.
>
> The areas referred to in this section I think would include the area
> within the Mode C Veil.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
>
Good point Thom. That was my original concern. The mode C veil out of MCO
gobbles up almost all of Central Florida. The questions I asked were directed to
both Orlando FAA and the tower at SFB (Sanford). Sanford CT had no problem
with operating right up to the edge of their 5 mile ring as long as I did not
loiter in the approach end of the active runway. The FAA said that the mode C
ring was not to be confused with a controlled area. This issue is not much of
a factor for me anymore because I have moved my flight area to Winter Haven
but I would be interested if the explanation that I got was correct. In
other words, Can a UL operate within a Mode C Veil with no prior permission
provided that he stays outside of other controlled airspace?
Steve B
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 09:35 AM 1/16/06 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
>With all the talk about VG's I haven't heard anything about how
>they're to be lined up fore-and-aft. Any specs on this? If they're
>straight into the wind I don't believe they'll do diddley. Look at a
>commercial jet's wings -- esp. the 727. The VG's are twisted about
>10-15 degrees. They are after all meant to create turbulence right at
>the boundary layer -- how can they do this if they're edge-onto the
>apparent wind?
Russ,
I developed my VG's from an old EAA Sport Aviation article. They said 15
degrees and that is what I used. As I recall, they gave a height
measurement (3/8 of an inch) but no other measurements, but they did include
a photo in the article. It showed a single vane VG and an old fashion lead
pencil with the eraser end next to the VG. By scanning in the photo and
re-sizing the photo and comparing pencil eraser lengths, I was able
determine the VG length. I used a trapezoidal shape the VG vane pairs
because they will not work the fabric as hard as single vane a VG.
All I can say is that they seem to work very well. One could make them
taller and wider, but doing so would increase VG weight and drag. If you
want to maintain the same top and/or cruise speed, it is important to
minimize VG drag. It must be less or equal to the drag reduction that occurs
by flying the wing at a lower angle of attack due to the wings increase in
lift capability for a given air speed.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
Russ K are you in Maine ?
Ellery in Maine
do not archive
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 10:35 AM 1/16/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
>With all the talk about VG's I haven't heard anything about how
>they're to be lined up fore-and-aft. Any specs on this? If they're
>straight into the wind I don't believe they'll do diddley. Look at a
>commercial jet's wings -- esp. the 727. The VG's are twisted about
>10-15 degrees. They are after all meant to create turbulence right at
>the boundary layer -- how can they do this if they're edge-onto the
>apparent wind?
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>From: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
>With all the talk about VG's I haven't heard anything about how
>they're to be lined up fore-and-aft. Any specs on this? If they're
>straight into the wind I don't believe they'll do diddley. Look at a
>commercial jet's wings -- esp. the 727. The VG's are twisted about
>10-15 degrees. They are after all meant to create turbulence right at
>the boundary layer -- how can they do this if they're edge-onto the
>apparent wind?
This is from http://www.landshorter.com/index.html
Q: How do I know where to put them on my wing and tail?
A: Our eight page manual and complete set of computer generated
templates give you the information you need to install and test your
Landshorter! vortex generators. Most likely you will end up placing
them around the 10% chord line for your wing and spacing them at
about 50 per wing (close to 1% of span). If you decide to use them
on the underside of your horizontal stabilizer to improve your flare
then you will place them about 1 1/2" apart and just in front of the
elevator. In all cases the VG's are placed at a precise angle to the
airstream and are aligned and spaced with the included templates.
What they look like on a Kolbish Aircraft
http://sos.photosite.com/Album1/
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sportChoices |
we make and the downside to our sport
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Larry,
That sounds like about a 4-to 1 glide ratio, sort of like a gyroplane.
Is that about right?
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Travels |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Bass" <gtb@commspeed.net>
Just a small note regarding the travels of Mr. Hauck:
One of the most impressive books I've ever owned, that
shows the beauty of this country, from the air, is any one
of the products from Adriel Heisey (?sp?).
I have 2 of them, and often sit and muse about the true
wonder of this planet, and the light planes that many of
us have flown. Mr Heisey flys a KOLB for all of his pix.
>From what I've seen, of the pix produced by Mr Hauck,
and his travels, it would be a best seller (at least in the
community of aviators) and might even open the eyes,
and the horizons of some who would never dream that
it was possible to complete the things that he has.
Best wishes to J. Hauck on this project, too.
George Bass
Do Not Archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "mike moulai" <kiwimick@sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
I have got the VG's approved on the MIII X in the UK and they are now
standard fit on all.
See www.landshorter.com they do exactly what they say they will do.
These are what we use, they are designed in a wind tunnel, and you can
hardly see them, and they weigh almost nothing.
Cheers
Mike
Xtra/Jab2200
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:11 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS
> --> Kolb-List message posted by:
>
> From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
> X-Generated-By: M2F: m2f.sourceforge.net
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:11:21 -0800
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
> With all the people using vortex generators out there, I was hoping to get
> a little more information.
>
> It seems that I definately want them, so what I need to know now is which
> ones are the best. I hear of kits, I see some people make thier own. I
> just dont know which design of vortex generator works the best.
>
> Also, how many should I put on the wing, and what is the best location ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael A. Bigelow
>
> --------
> NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have
> !!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4006#4006
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fellow aviator makes his final flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bill_joe" <bill_joe@bellsouth.net>
Hi Ken
I knew Bill and even camped in his yard at one of his fly-ins. You are
correct about him,he was a great guy. The first time I ever talked to Bill
was that I wanted to come over to one of his events. He said sure come on
and just set up camp in my yard. It was a good weekend and I am glad to have
been a friend of his. He will be missed.
Bill Futrell
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "kfackler" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:28 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fellow aviator makes his final flight
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "kfackler" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> Most of you here on the Kolb List will not have known or met Bill
> Wolverton.
> He was a man who was much loved and admired by all who knew him and a
> prime,
> skilled aviator. He flew many airplanes in his life, most of which were
> ultralights or experimentals. For the past several years he was regularly
> seen in the skies over Michigan in his beautiful red Hiperlight. Bill
> passed
> away at noon today (Jan 15) after a short illness. His wife says he made
> the
> transition peacefully and without pain. I ask that you offer any prayer or
> positive thought that you deem meaningful for his widow.
>
> -Ken Fackler
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Personally, If I were in your place, I would put them on my Kolb, fly it,
and the government would never know about it >>. G
Hi,
Dont think I haven`t been tempted. Trouble is the USA is a bit bigger than
the UK. I am sure that inthe USA there are large areas where authority
doesn`t rear its ugly head.
Here someone would surely come across me at a Fly-in somewhere and start
asking questions. Although ultralights constitute the largest part of the GA
fraternity it is still a fairly small number and the same people turn up at
the fly-ins and the CAA or the PFA is usually represented at the larger
ones.. There are only a very few Kolbs here in any case.
Thank goodness that the weather has been pretty naff lately so flying does
not seem very attractive and in any case I still have the Challenger
operating.
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
--
Message 23
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| Subject: | "Fat" and two-place Ultralights |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jdmurr@juno.com" <jdmurr@juno.com>
I just read this:
--The two-seat ultralight Exemption for ultralight training will expire on January
31, 2008.
-All "fat" single seat ultralights and all two-seat ultralight trainers must be
converted to "experimental" LSA by August 31, 2007.
This is going to affect a lot of us. Two place is pretty obvious, but how are
they going to determine who is "fat" without having weigh stations like they do
for trucks?
I just read this:
--The two-seat ultralight Exemption for ultralight training will expire on January
31, 2008.
-All "fat" single seat ultralights and all two-seat ultralight trainers must be
converted to "experimental" LSA by August 31, 2007.
This is going to affect a lot of us. Two place is pretty obvious, but how are they
going to determine who is "fat" without having weigh stations like they do
for trucks?
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Thanks everyone !
I really like what im hearing from you guys about vortex generators, im going to get the ones from www.landshorter.com They are well tested, of optimum height, shape, and are known to work well. They are only 100 bucks [Mr. Green] You just cant beat that deal.
I could make them cheaper, and they might be ok, but then again I might make mine to short, to long, etc. etc. Home made Vortex Generators might help, but might not give the full optimization of well tested and optimized generators. www.landshorter.com may just be the best 100 dollars I spend.
Michael Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4485#4485
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: "Fat" and two-place Ultralights |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
-- "jdmurr@juno.com" <jdmurr@juno.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jdmurr@juno.com" <jdmurr@juno.com>
I just read this:
--The two-seat ultralight Exemption for ultralight training will expire on January
31, 2008.
-All "fat" single seat ultralights and all two-seat ultralight trainers must be
converted to "experimental" LSA by August 31, 2007.
This is going to affect a lot of us. Two place is pretty obvious, but how are
they going to determine who is "fat" without having weigh stations like they do
for trucks?
Many single seaters have a 503 (50hp) engine and a 10 gallon tank. That's a dead
give away right there as Part 103 requires 5-gallons and *usually* a 447 engine
(40hp) or less power.
Ralph
Original Firestar
19 years flying it
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sportChoices |
we make and the downside to our sport
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I guess..........?? I wasn't measuring too awful much. I was too busy
sucking up upholstery. I do know the approach was awful steep, and the
flare was awful late. It worked, tho'. Didn't bend the plane, er..........
vehicle, and we walked away from it. Seems like we carried some power on
the 503 on landing. 2500 rpm ?? 3500 ?? Don't remember.
That was an - interesting - thing to fly. Seems like the controls were
bass-ackwards, and the rudder pedals actually controlled spoilers, and stick
controlled the rudder and elevators. Maybe I'M backwards - it's been a long
time. Anyway, with all the dihedral in the wings, when you wanted to turn
you'd stomp on a pedal and yard over on the stick, then after the turn
started you'd ease up. The thing would kinda wallow around and you'd wait
to see how much more you needed to go. Interesting.......I don't miss it.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" jtriddle@adelphia.net,
>
> That sounds like about a 4-to 1 glide ratio, sort of like a gyroplane.
> Is that about right?
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
kinnepix(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
> Glaciers are soooo cool
>
Hahahah, I dont think you will find any disagreement there [Laughing]
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4529#4529
Message 28
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
The large tree did a lot to cushion a fall. I will remember that if I ever lose
a wing.
As far as the rock jamming the elevator and causing a DC-9 crash, I beleive that
is just urban legend. I searched all over the place and could not find it...
And it is very far out, as the two elevator halves on the DC-9 move independently
of each other... If you ever see them taxing out sometimes you see one
half up and the other down...
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4533#4533
Message 29
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mark" <mshimei@netzero.net>
I installed a set of VGs on my Twinstar.......WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Plane now stalls
38 power on,down from 45. Aileron control is more solid,used to have a dead
spot in the middle a foot wide(or so it seemed).
I tried these without expecting a lot,and got great results. I dont know how
other Kolbs fly without them. That flat bottomed,sharp LE wing has some bad points
too....the VGs seem to fix them...
--------
Mark Shimei
Twinstar, 503
Phantom, Kawasaki 440
Weight shift Quick, Chrysler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4542#4542
Message 30
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Aileron control is more solid,used to have a dead spot in the middle a
foot wide(or so it seemed).
I dont know how other Kolbs fly without them.
That flat bottomed,sharp LE wing has some bad points too....the VGs
seem to fix them...
|
| Mark Shimei
Hi Mark:
Please tell us about the dead spot in your ailerons and how the VG's
improved this seemingly dangerous problem.
Somehow there are a lot more Kolbs flying without VG's than with them.
I don't know how we fly without them. ;-)
Would also be very nice to know what these bad point of the Kolb wing
are, and how the VG's fixed them. To state that a wing has bad points
does not help us understand the problem.
john h
MKIII
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by:
From: "Mark" <mshimei@netzero.net>
X-Generated-By: M2F: m2f.sourceforge.net
Jet pilot,
Look up Possums on this site. I installed VGs on my Twinstar and the results are
outstanding. I cut 80 of them from thin plastic,1" long,1/4" high. Found a
template and installed them along the entire wing. Do it.
--------
Mark Shimei
Twinstar, 503
Phantom, Kawasaki 440
Weight shift Quick, Chrysler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4558#4558
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by:
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
X-Generated-By: M2F: m2f.sourceforge.net
Mark wrote:
> Jet pilot,
> Look up Possums on this site.
>
>
I get like 1000 hits back when I search "possums", someone with that name posts
a lot !!!
Mark wrote:
>
>
> Weight shift Quick, Chrysler
>
Oh my gawd [Shocked] The weight shift quicksilver was my first solo !! I had
one of those in high school. Do you still fly that ? Talk about a peice
of history ! Tell me more about it [Mr. Green]
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4560#4560
Message 33
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Other Kolbs fly pretty good without them. Better than most any thing
else in it's class. But nothing made by man is perfect, and improvement
is always possible. VG's fall into that category.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Mark wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mark" <mshimei@netzero.net>
>
>I installed a set of VGs on my Twinstar.......WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Plane now stalls
38 power on,down from 45. Aileron control is more solid,used to have a dead
spot in the middle a foot wide(or so it seemed).
> I tried these without expecting a lot,and got great results. I dont know how
other Kolbs fly without them. That flat bottomed,sharp LE wing has some bad points
too....the VGs seem to fix them...
>
>--------
>Mark Shimei
>Twinstar, 503
>Phantom, Kawasaki 440
>Weight shift Quick, Chrysler
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4542#4542
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Right on, bro! glaciers are cool, but comfortable. I worked at -63
once. THAT was more than cool.
(Shivering)
do not archive (do we still need this??)
On Jan 16, 2006, at 7:22 PM, JetPilot wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
>
> kinnepix(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>>
>> Glaciers are soooo cool
>>
>
>
> Hahahah, I dont think you will find any disagreement there
> [Laughing]
>
> --------
> NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
> have !!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4529#4529
>
>
Message 35
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
thing
| else in it's class. But nothing made by man is perfect, and
improvement
| is always possible. VG's fall into that category.
|
| Richard Pike
Richard:
Would be very interesting to do a side by side comparison, two of same
model Kolb aircraft, rather than individual tests that present results
to the List based on their inprecise methods of testing.
I would be more than happy to participate in such a test, as the Kolb
without VG's. Even side by side would not be precise, but would seem
to me much better than what we have now. Based on what I have read
and seen on the List and the internet, I don't think I'll run right
out and start sticking VG's on Miss P'fer. I guess I have seen Kolbs
fly with them, but have not paid that much particular attention at the
time. Wasn't any noticeable difference in performance between with
and without. However, if I could get up close to a MKIII that had
them, compare take off, cruise, slow flight, short landings, etc.,
then I would be better prepared to make a semi-educated decision about
VG's.
If me and Miss P'fer are put to shame, I'll run right out, get a
bucket full of VG's and start sticking.
Take care,
john h
Naked MKIII
Message 36
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
John,
Seeing how the take off and landing performance of Miss Pfer is already
beyond the stock Mk-3 due to your gear mods, a side by side comparison with
most any other Mk-3 with VGs would be worthless.
Why don't you just make a bucket full of em out of Lexan and stick em on
with double sided tape (outside the prop arc of course) and let us know your
results.
I don't have them either but if Possums and brother Pike say they work, I
tend to beleive them.
Again, I am not endorsing their use nor do I plan on installing them but
their benifits on all types of planes seem to be fact, not fiction and you
yourself are well known to want the most out of your bird. After all your
mods, it seems like temporarily sticking a few VGs on your wings would be
childs play.
Denny Rowe
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: VG's
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> thing
> improvement
>
> Richard:
>
> Would be very interesting to do a side by side comparison, two of same
> model Kolb aircraft, rather than individual tests that present results
> to the List based on their inprecise methods of testing.
>
> I would be more than happy to participate in such a test, as the Kolb
> without VG's. Even side by side would not be precise, but would seem
> to me much better than what we have now. Based on what I have read
> and seen on the List and the internet, I don't think I'll run right
> out and start sticking VG's on Miss P'fer. I guess I have seen Kolbs
> fly with them, but have not paid that much particular attention at the
> time. Wasn't any noticeable difference in performance between with
> and without. However, if I could get up close to a MKIII that had
> them, compare take off, cruise, slow flight, short landings, etc.,
> then I would be better prepared to make a semi-educated decision about
> VG's.
>
> If me and Miss P'fer are put to shame, I'll run right out, get a
> bucket full of VG's and start sticking.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
> Naked MKIII
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Trailering a Kolb |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George T. Alexander, Jr." <gtalexander@att.net>
Kolbers:
Have added Beauford Tuton's and Dennis Kirby's material to the "Trailering a
Kolb" section of my web site.
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Also changed the hot link for the email address to prevent pirating of their
addresses. Replace the (at) with an @ if you want to send them an email.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
George Alexander
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: transponder cert |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
It was alleged by Rev Pike that I should know the method used at the
ATCBS interrogator site in setting the "zero" altitude. Perhaps his
memory is more solid-state then mine, because it has been some 55
years since I cogitated about ATCRS. It's like someone asking an OF
a question about modern computer memory, when his experiences ended
with ATARI.
The station setting refers to 29.92 in Hg. Digital circuitry
automatically alters (add or subtracts) the site pressure setting for
display on the controllers' scopes. The plane's Mode C altitude
sensor is based (hardwired) on 29.82, however the pilot's altitude
readout displays his altitude as referenced to baro setting at the
departure point (or enroute when given a different alt. set.).
There are two classes of alt encoders: mechanical (a bellows drives a
code wheel) or the pressure-chip design (an integrated circuit chip
with pressure sensitive component). These are called Blind encoders
because there is no outward indication. The pilot's readout can have
hands driven by the mechanical type, with a setting nob that only
affects his display.
And yes, the hundreds may click over at 50', considering the short
term accuracy of the alt. encoders and their vibrating mounting.
Once I had a stuck D4 pulse in my altitude reply, causing O'Hare to
think I was at some 30,000' inbound in a Cardinal...my alt said 4,000.
Bob N.
Message 39
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
[quote="John Hauck]
However, if I could get up close to a MKIII that had
them, compare take off, cruise, slow flight, short landings, etc.,
then I would be better prepared to make a semi-educated decision about
VG's.
[/quote]
Hi John
It wont be to long before my MK III is finished with VG's on it. Im sure we will
meet up at a flyin one day and you will be welcome to try it and see if you
like them.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4595#4595
Message 40
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe"
<rowedl@highstream.net>
| Seeing how the take off and landing performance of Miss Pfer is
already
| beyond the stock Mk-3 due to your gear mods, a side by side
comparison with
| most any other Mk-3 with VGs would be worthless.
Got stock wings, tail, and an 11 lb tail wheel. ;-) Not going to fly
any sooner than stock. Don't see how the main gear are going to give
it a lower stall speed/approach speed.
| Why don't you just make a bucket full of em out of Lexan and stick
em on
| with double sided tape (outside the prop arc of course) and let us
know your
| results.
Don't have time right now.
| I don't have them either but if Possums and brother Pike say they
work, I
| tend to beleive them.
I also believe them, but would be nice to be there and fly with them
to compare the difference in real time rather than cyber time on the
internet.
After all your
| mods, it seems like temporarily sticking a few VGs on your wings
would be
| childs play.
Seems that way, but it ain't. What mods are you talking about? I
haven't changed any flight characteristic of a MKIII from what was
called for in the 1991 edition of the plans. I don't mess with
Homer's flight characteristics and never have.
Shucks, I thought a good fly off comparison would be a good way to get
a good idea of what I am missing.
john h
Looking for a little comparison.
Message 41
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Im sure we will meet up at a flyin one day and you will be welcome to
try it and see if you like them.
|
| Michael A. Bigelow
Thanks Mike:
One of these days I'll get to make a comparison. Guess I am going to
have to be patient.
john h
MKIII
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 09:33 PM 1/16/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by:
>
>From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
> > Look up Possums on this site.
>
>I get like 1000 hits back when I search
>"possums", someone with that name posts a lot !!!
----------------------
It's not all me - You just picked up listers mentioning my name.
Here's all I ever Posted about VG's
I'll just cut and paste from the archives - sorry
to repeat myself =96 but you asked.
Here's what they look like. You'll have to look close
they're small.
<http://sos.photosite.com/Album1
I didn't expect them to do a lot - so I put them on with the
Double stick tape so I could remove them later. They're clear lexan
and the tape matches my wing color - so you don't really notice
them. They are pretty small and don't have any sharp pointed edges
like the "homemade" ones do. My average cord
(including the ailerons) is about 60 inches.
The instructions say to use double stick tape until you
find the optimum location or "sweet spot" and then glue them
later. I think I will just leave them stuck on with the tape I got
at the auto paint shop - it seems pretty strong. However mineral
spirts seems to loosen & dissolve the glue if I ever want o move
them or take them off.
Automotive Acrylic Plus Attachment Tape
It took more time to put the tape on each VG than it did
to put the VGs on the plane.
I was very impressed - and am going to leave them on.
On take off I can point the nose up almost 35 degrees
and hold the air speed just over 30 mph and it seems to just hang
on the prop, and it really does seem to knock about 6 or 7 mph off my
stall speed. Got a $30 Hall speed indicator out side the
plane - it's more accurate than the one inside.
I was just surprised at what these little things would actually do for
the amount of time and money invested. And like Jeremy says it's not
just that you can fly slower, it's "how well" you can fly slower
that=92s what most impressed to me. 30 mph no mush. I fly my plane slow
- a lot.
I have a 27' 9" wing span - actually have 42 on each
wing. I'll have to count them. Bought a hundred got about 18 left over.
So I put two in each valley and used the 2.75 inch spacing guide
to "kind of space them out" between each rib and false rib etc.
Just a guess, but it seemed to work out OK.
Wasn't really sure which one to use since I have
scalloped wings and can't just space them out
evenly over the length of the wings like you might do on a Cub.
The instructions say VG's should be placed about 1% of the wingspan apart.
The instructions say put them on 10 to 12% of the
wing cord (including the ailerons) back from the
leading edge. Too far forward and they will slow
down the cruise speed, too far back and they become ineffective.
I put mine about 11% or 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge as measured
through the middle of the cord of the wing. I used the T-square method -
like Ben Ransom did on his homemade ones -for the set back and put
them about 6 1/2 inches back from the LE.
It takes two of these to equal on of the homemade ones.
Guess it'll cost you $100 to find out if they work for you.
Oh -- BTW I've got a $35 "Hall ASI" on my nose cone, Air Speed Indicator
in the Instrument panel and Garmon GPS 295 inside.
So I'm pretty sure my airspeed is right, but the Hall is the most accurate.
Before the VG's my stall speed was only around 36 mph - so don't
expect miracles.
Mine didn't pick up any bad tendencies.
Just a lower stallspeed. A lot more control a
just above stall. I used the little lexan
"Landshorter" ones - about 42 + per wing, used the pattern they
sent for the layout.
This weekend I've got my stall speed down to 28 mph with the VGs true air
speed with a Hall Air Speed Indicator located on the out side of the
cockpit. There were about 100 sail boats on one of our local lakes here
for the holidays. I can do a controlled 30 degree turn at 30 mph with these
things which is kind of amazing. With a 12 mph hour head wind I was
almost lagging behind some of the larger sail boats at 200 ft AGL. You guys
got to try these things if you like to fly low and slow and don't want to
mush anymore. I know they can't see my engine from the ground because
it's above the wing, they can't see the prop - because it's spinning - they
can hardly hear me at 4300 rpm --- so I I'm a UFO or from the skunk works
to some of them.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 09:33 PM 1/16/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by:
>
>Mark wrote:
>
>I get like 1000 hits back when I search "possums", someone with that
>name posts a lot !!!
I don't like to brag, but with any kind of decent head wind - I can lower a
beer down to my friends on the ground - with a fishing line.
With a good head wind I can land "tail first" at our 900 ft strip.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
With a really good wind, I can fill a beer bottle with my relief tube
being held by the Line Boy.
Bob N.
pls don't archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I don't like to brag, but with any kind of decent head wind - I can lower a
> beer down to my friends on the ground - with a fishing line.
>
> With a good head wind I can land "tail first" at our 900 ft strip.
>
If possum says it, he can do it.
If I wear my possum shirt (honorary possum, see attached photo) I can do the same
thing.
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4612#4612
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/possum_337.jpg
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> With a really good wind, I can fill a beer bottle with my relief tube
> being held by the Line Boy.
>
> Bob N.
>
If the Grey Baron says he can do it, I believe it too!!!
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4613#4613
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