Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (russ kinne)
2. 06:14 AM - Re: VG's (russ kinne)
3. 06:20 AM - pics (robert bean)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: VG's (Denny Rowe)
5. 06:39 AM - Re: VG's (Vic Peters)
6. 07:10 AM - Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sport (John Jung)
7. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (Larry Bourne)
8. 07:15 AM - Overreving 582 (EnaudZ@aol.com)
9. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sport (Steve Garvelink)
10. 07:59 AM - Re: Mode C Veil Question (David.Lehman)
11. 08:24 AM - Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (John Jung)
12. 10:45 AM - Re: Overreving 582 (Denny Rowe)
13. 10:51 AM - Another camera-phone video ! (Noel)
14. 10:52 AM - Re: VG's (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
15. 02:27 PM - Re: Overreving 582 (Vic Peters)
16. 06:09 PM - Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (JetPilot)
17. 06:54 PM - Re: Overreving 582 (jerb)
18. 07:33 PM - Re: Overreving 582 (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
19. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS (Richard Pike)
20. 08:41 PM - Re: Overreving 582 (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
No photo attached! -- now I'm curious --
On Jan 16, 2006, at 11:15 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>> I don't like to brag, but with any kind of decent head wind - I
>> can lower a
>> beer down to my friends on the ground - with a fishing line.
>>
>> With a good head wind I can land "tail first" at our 900 ft strip.
>>
>
>
> If possum says it, he can do it.
>
> If I wear my possum shirt (honorary possum, see attached photo) I
> can do the same thing.
>
> --------
> John Hauck
> MKIII/912ULS
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4612#4612
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/possum_337.jpg
>
>
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Ellery
I'm in CT, not ME -- but not by choice. ME is a great state. I run
boats up & down coast (boatrelocate.com), used to fly, mostly
coastal, like to troutfish (anywhere), hike (do), haven't yet run
Allagash but would like to. Whjere are you?
fair winds,
Russ
do not archive
On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:40 AM, ElleryWeld@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
>
> Russ K are you in Maine ?
>
> Ellery in Maine
> do not archive
>
>
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Russ/all, click on the .jpg
That's the best feature of the new web site, our ability to link
pics direct from the old email (which I continue to use)
-BB
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: VG's
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
>
> already
> comparison with
>
> Got stock wings, tail, and an 11 lb tail wheel. ;-) Not going to fly
> any sooner than stock. Don't see how the main gear are going to give
> it a lower stall speed/approach speed.
>
John,
I was refering to your post regarding take off and landing distance
comparisons between your bird and other Mk-3s, your gear allows you to land
shorter and take off sooner as you get your wing into a higher angle of
attack than a stock Mk-3. Remenber? ;-) Not to menyion the experience
advantage you would have over any other Kolb pilot.
Of course side by side flight comparisons of stall speeds would be pretty
worthless also unless the planes were ballasted to the same weight and
balance.
> em on
> know your
>
> Don't have time right now.
I can relate to that! :-(
>
> work, I
>
> I also believe them, but would be nice to be there and fly with them
> to compare the difference in real time rather than cyber time on the
> internet.
Thats why I encourage you to try it on Pfer, with your experience in your
bird there is no doubt you would detect the effects.
>
> After all your
> would be
>
> Seems that way, but it ain't.
What mods are you talking about? I haven't changed any flight
characteristic of a MKIII from what was
> called for in the 1991 edition of the plans. I don't mess with
> Homer's flight characteristics and never have.
The gear, fuel, and cargo, mods of course, just noting that after building
and rebuilding three Kolb aircraft over the years, spending a day making,
taping on and testing VGs is no biggy. Also, I don't feel that adding VGs
to make the wing hold on a little longer or the ailerons more responsive is
messing with Homers design, any more than Rutan messed with his by putting
them on an EZ canard.
>
> Shucks, I thought a good fly off comparison would be a good way to get
> a good idea of what I am missing.
It would be cool, but hearing your results on the effects on your bird would
be a more valid test in my opinion.
Later
Denny
>
> john h
> Looking for a little comparison.
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
Hey Russ, I'm about 60+ miles from Ellery And I can tell you , "yoy can't
get Theya from heya"
Vic
MK3X
Smellinocket,Me
--
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
Group,
Seems like we don't want to think about "choices". We would rather convince ourselves
that it couldn't happen to us, because Quicksilvers are so different from
our Kolbs.
Well, I learned to fly in a two place Quick, and owned two single place Quicks,
including a Sprint. IMO they are more similar than different. Even though they
have a steep angle of descent, they also climb at twice our angle.
What we do share are the decissions. How much weight should we carry from what
length runway? Should we wear helmets? How low should we fly over rugged terrain?
Do we carry passengers low and slow?
I suspect that I am wasting my time with this thread.
--------
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4679#4679
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
You better hope he doesn't yank on that tube. :-) Lar.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Noyer" <a58r@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: VORTEX GENERATORS
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
>
> With a really good wind, I can fill a beer bottle with my relief tube
> being held by the Line Boy.
>
> Bob N.
>
> pls don't archive
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: EnaudZ@aol.com
Hello Everyone
We need help ,we have at our airport aman with a rans s7 w/582/3blade
warp
his problem is on climb out the engine (at WOT)runs at 6200 then revs to
>6500
then back to 6200 a while then back up to > 6500 etc, etc. help!!!!!.
Duane zollinger
FS2 503
Rittman ,Ohio P.S. T.I.A.
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Steve Garvelink" <link@cdc.net>
In the early 1980's I flew a weight shift quick with a 15 hp Yamaha. I
learned more about flying from that craft than any other I have flown.
It was a blast but it was very unforgiving in the area of landing. You
had to have maximum speed coming over the numbers in order to flair
properly. There was not much range between wide open flight speed and
stall. I suspect that the individual was in a controlled mush that
resulted in an incredible decent into the ground. I could be wrong but
he probably would have been all right had he kept adequate flight speed.
Steve Garvelink
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jung
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:10 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sport
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
Group,
Seems like we don't want to think about "choices". We would rather
convince ourselves that it couldn't happen to us, because Quicksilvers
are so different from our Kolbs.
Well, I learned to fly in a two place Quick, and owned two single place
Quicks, including a Sprint. IMO they are more similar than different.
Even though they have a steep angle of descent, they also climb at twice
our angle.
What we do share are the decissions. How much weight should we carry
from what length runway? Should we wear helmets? How low should we fly
over rugged terrain? Do we carry passengers low and slow?
I suspect that I am wasting my time with this thread.
--------
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4679#4679
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Mode C Veil Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David.Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
Richard Pike wrote:
> I disagree.
> An ultralight is a vehicle, it is not an aircraft,
I think I disagree (brave aren't I?)...
103.1 Applicability says:
This part prescribes rules governing the operation of ultralight vehicles in the
United States. For the purposes of this part, an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle
that:
(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a single
occupant;
and FAR 1.1 says:
Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air.
It appears to me that an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle that is used or intended
to be used for flight in the air.
But, I've been wrong before...
DVD
--------
Any pilot can describe the mechanics of flying. What it can do for the spirit
of man is beyond description.
Barry M. Goldwater, US senator.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4694#4694
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
Group,
Here is my reaction to all this talk about VG's. I just ordered a set from Landshorter.com.
Actually, VGs have been on my list for a long time now, I just decided
that it is time.
And it won't be the first time for VGs on my Firestar. I used a set of the flashing
type for a few days. At that time I was not happy with either the looks or
the performance. The performance problem was caused, I believe, by my putting
them only in front of the ailerons. I chose the Landshorter ones because they
don't look so bad.
--------
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4701#4701
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Overreving 582 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Sounds like an air leak to me.
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: <EnaudZ@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Overreving 582
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: EnaudZ@aol.com
>
> Hello Everyone
> We need help ,we have at our airport aman with a rans s7
> w/582/3blade
> warp
> his problem is on climb out the engine (at WOT)runs at 6200 then revs to
>>6500
> then back to 6200 a while then back up to > 6500 etc, etc. help!!!!!.
> Duane zollinger
> FS2 503
> Rittman ,Ohio P.S. T.I.A.
> do not archive
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Another camera-phone video ! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Noel" <noel@teledata.qc.ca>
Hello Group !
I am sending another small video made with my camera phone ...
This is an in-flight video captured near Montreal, Canada.
The visibility was only about 6 miles.
This is a good demonstration of the fantastic angle of view that our little
plane offer ...
Notice that i was bare handed ... so not that cold guys [Wink]
Noel Bouchard
Montreal
1990 Twinstar MkII
Rotax 503 (point ignition ... yes)
Rebuilt last year
~ 325 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4745#4745
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbflight2_134.3gp
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
CT thats where my wife is from
I have been on the Alligash Water Way many times it is a great place I am In
a small town called Levant 11 miles West of" KBGR" Bangor International
Airport
Ellery
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Overreving 582 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
How about Prop pitch? Remember I'm just an ex carpenter.
Vic P
MK3X
--
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Thats where im ordering mine from ( www.landshorter.com )
The shape and size of those things has to be critical [Shocked] If you made
them and got the angles, sizes, etc wrong, I can immagine they didnt work very
well. Landshorter.com says they tested in the wind tunnel to get everything
right... For all the research, and optmization they have done, 100 bucks is
a bargain. Even if I can make the vortex generators for free, If I have to spend
days and days getting them right, the cost becomes huge in time lost.
Also just putting the vortex generators just front of the ailerons only covers
less than 40 % of the wing. You cannot expect much with just covering 40% of
the wing... you need to cover the whole thing ! Also the distance from the leading
edge is critical, if you anyone gets any one of these things wrong the
results could prove very dissapointing [Evil or Very Mad]
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4823#4823
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Overreving 582 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Is the problem being he is over reving (speeding) the engine or that
the engine rev's are "hunting", that is changing RPM without throttle
or load change.
jerb
At 09:14 AM 1/17/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: EnaudZ@aol.com
>
>Hello Everyone
> We need help ,we have at our airport aman with a rans s7 w/582/3blade
>warp
> his problem is on climb out the engine (at WOT)runs at 6200 then revs to
> >6500
> then back to 6200 a while then back up to > 6500 etc, etc. help!!!!!.
> Duane zollinger
>FS2 503
> Rittman ,Ohio P.S. T.I.A.
>do not archive
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Overreving 582 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
EnaudZ@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: EnaudZ@aol.com
>
> Hello Everyone
> We need help ,we have at our airport aman with a rans s7 w/582/3blade
> warp
> his problem is on climb out the engine (at WOT)runs at 6200 then revs to
>
>>6500
>
> then back to 6200 a while then back up to > 6500 etc, etc. help!!!!!.
> Duane zollinger
> FS2 503
> Rittman ,Ohio P.S. T.I.A.
> do not archive
I'm assuming that it has a C or E gearbox. If so the "driven" prop. gear
is not splined or keyed to the shaft. It uses a tapered cone sleeve to
tighten it to the shaft. I have heard of some of them slipping at full
power. You can usually hear the ratio of prop to engine speed change
like in the old days when the belt reduction started to slip.
~ Earl
--
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Having played with a variety of vortex generator setups on Kolb wings,
both MKIII and FSII, my experience is exactly the opposite. Nothing
worked worse than stock, everything gave at least some improvement, and
certain arrangements seemed optimum, or at least within my creative
abilities.
None of it was time lost. None. It was fun experimenting. That's why
they are called "Experimental Aircraft." Because you can have fun
experimenting with them. And if it is a Kolb airfoil, it tolerates
experimenting very well.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
JetPilot wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
>Thats where im ordering mine from ( www.landshorter.com )
>
>The shape and size of those things has to be critical [Shocked] If you made
them and got the angles, sizes, etc wrong, I can immagine they didnt work very
well. Landshorter.com says they tested in the wind tunnel to get everything
right... For all the research, and optmization they have done, 100 bucks is
a bargain. Even if I can make the vortex generators for free, If I have to spend
days and days getting them right, the cost becomes huge in time lost.
>
>Also just putting the vortex generators just front of the ailerons only covers
less than 40 % of the wing. You cannot expect much with just covering 40% of
the wing... you need to cover the whole thing ! Also the distance from the
leading edge is critical, if you anyone gets any one of these things wrong the
results could prove very dissapointing [Evil or Very Mad]
>
>Michael A. Bigelow
>
>--------
>NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4823#4823
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Overreving 582 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Good idea Earl, the B box on my 582 also did that when it was new,
except it was the gear on the end of the crank that was slipping. Lapped
it in with some fine valve grinding compound and that fixed it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Earl & Mim Zimmerman wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
>
>EnaudZ@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: EnaudZ@aol.com
>>
>>Hello Everyone
>> We need help ,we have at our airport aman with a rans s7 w/582/3blade
>>warp
>> his problem is on climb out the engine (at WOT)runs at 6200 then revs to
>>
>>
>>
>>>6500
>>>
>>>
>> then back to 6200 a while then back up to > 6500 etc, etc. help!!!!!.
>> Duane zollinger
>>FS2 503
>> Rittman ,Ohio P.S. T.I.A.
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>
>I'm assuming that it has a C or E gearbox. If so the "driven" prop. gear
>is not splined or keyed to the shaft. It uses a tapered cone sleeve to
>tighten it to the shaft. I have heard of some of them slipping at full
>power. You can usually hear the ratio of prop to engine speed change
>like in the old days when the belt reduction started to slip.
> ~ Earl
>
>
>
>
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