Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:12 AM - Re: Re: Entusiastic group (Thom Riddle)
2. 06:01 AM - Re: Wing Fold Tube (Ralph)
3. 06:11 AM - Ohio Kolbers (Rex Rodebush)
4. 06:15 AM - Re: Ohio Kolbers (Gdledbetter@aol.com)
5. 06:27 AM - Re: Ohio Kolbers (snuffy@usol.com)
6. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: Entusiastic group (Larry Bourne)
7. 07:27 AM - VG Installation (Diego Ospina)
8. 07:51 AM - Re: Ohio Kolbers (flht99reh)
9. 07:55 AM - Re: Ohio Kolbers (flht99reh)
10. 08:01 AM - Re: Ohio Kolbers (flht99reh)
11. 08:04 AM - Re: Ohio Kolbers (David Lehman)
12. 08:16 AM - Re: 447 gear oil drain plug (DAquaNut@aol.com)
13. 08:22 AM - Repairing damaged UltraStar wing (David Kulp)
14. 08:28 AM - Re: Repairing damaged UltraStar wing (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
15. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: Entusiastic group (flht99reh)
16. 08:35 AM - Re: VG Installation (Richard Pike)
17. 08:36 AM - Re: Ohio Kolbers (flht99reh)
18. 08:54 AM - Re: Repairing damaged UltraStar wing (Richard Pike)
19. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: Entusiastic group (Dave G.)
20. 09:38 AM - Re: Repairing damaged UltraStar wing (robert bean)
21. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: Macrem'e 101 , 5 easy steps (pat ladd)
22. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: Entusiastic group aka english/american (Robert Noyer)
23. 12:03 PM - Fw: Kolb Manuals (Denny Rowe)
24. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: Macrem'e 101 , 5 easy steps (flht99reh)
25. 02:22 PM - Re: VG Installation (JetPilot)
26. 02:30 PM - Re: 10K Club (JetPilot)
27. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: 10K Club (HShack@aol.com)
28. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: 10K Club (Robert Laird)
29. 02:58 PM - Re: Flying to Mexico (JetPilot)
30. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: VG Installation (Richard Pike)
31. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: VG Installation (Jack B. Hart)
32. 05:19 PM - Re: VG Installation (Larry Bourne)
33. 05:53 PM - Re: VG Installation (George Alexander)
34. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: 10K Club (HShack@AOL.COM)
35. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: VG Installation (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
36. 09:35 PM - Re: Re: VG Installation (Ed Chmielewski)
37. 10:15 PM - Re: Re: VG Installation (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Entusiastic group |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
WARNING - NOT Kolb Related!!
In the spirit of better communication among the various English
speaking countries, and others who graciously use our language for
communicating with us, because most of us are barely monolingual, the
following link might help us to understand each other better. At the
very least it is entertaining and at times quite funny.
http://english2american.com/
Cheers, Salud, etc.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Fold Tube |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
Ray, for 12 years I had the 377 and the last 7 a 447.
Ralph
-- ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
Ralph,
What engine do you have on your original Firestar?
do no archive
Ralph <ul15rhb@juno.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph"
Dave,
I have replaced those wing fold tube rivets at least 3 times in 19 years. They
have never broken, but they do loosen up. I trailer my kolb and set it up and
taken it down everytime I fly. It stores in the garage.
Ralph
Original Firestar
19 years flying it
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <rrodebush@tema.net>
Hi Guys,
I live in West Chester, Ohio (just north of Cincinnati). Presently
building a Mark III Xtra. I have all the airframe parts built & working
on the fuel system but I just got a beautiful 1969 BMW R60/2 so
that's taking some time also.
If anybody is in the area let me know. I have a hanger at the Hamilton
airport (HAO).
Rex Rodebush
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Kolbers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gdledbetter@aol.com
Ohio Kolbers,
You can add me to the list. I have a Firefly with 315 hours on
engine/airframe. My plane was built by Bryan Melbourn.
I had a hangar for several years at Waynesville but moved it a year ago to
Clearwater Air Park near Owensville, OH.
I actually live in Cincinnati.
Gene Ledbetter
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Kolbers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
All right Ohio'n, speak-up now or for ever hold your piece! If you live in
> Ohio or near the edge of Ohio in KY, IN, PA, W Va or Mich,
please respond.
Columbiaville, MI. 20 miles NE of Flint.....2000 x 75 EW ........18
acres..plenty of camping room.......
Do not
archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Entusiastic group |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Kolb related or not, it's great fun. Thanks, Thom. I have a
British/Canadian background and really enjoyed poking around in the
definitions. Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Entusiastic group
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> WARNING - NOT Kolb Related!!
>
> In the spirit of better communication among the various English
> speaking countries, and others who graciously use our language for
> communicating with us, because most of us are barely monolingual, the
> following link might help us to understand each other better. At the
> very least it is entertaining and at times quite funny.
>
> http://english2american.com/
>
> Cheers, Salud, etc.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Diego Ospina <dospi@epm.net.co>
Sorry for bringing this subject once again to the list. I've just received a
set of VG's from Landshorter and I'd like to skip the temporary installation
so, has anybody found the best placement for a Mark III?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Diego Ospina
Kolb Mark III
Colombia
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Rex, you and your airfield are recorded. I believe we have the making of a
roundabout flight plan including many parts of PA and Ky. All possibly if
done right available with the "sporty (Harley slang for tiny) tank of about
1-1 1/2 hours of 2000 feet ASL on a calm day.
I'll contact all that reply off site in an e-mail. This has some great
potential!
Ralph of Ohio
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Rodebush
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:06 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Ohio Kolbers
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <rrodebush@tema.net>
Hi Guys,
I live in West Chester, Ohio (just north of Cincinnati). Presently
building a Mark III Xtra. I have all the airframe parts built & working
on the fuel system but I just got a beautiful 1969 BMW R60/2 so
that's taking some time also.
If anybody is in the area let me know. I have a hanger at the Hamilton
airport (HAO).
Rex Rodebush
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Gene, a pleasure to add you. If you know anyone else in our area that
perhaps doesn't respond on the Kolb pages here, let us know. We are in the
midst of creating our own Air Corp. Free flight jackets to the first 500 new
members! HA, HA!
Ohio Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gdledbetter@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ohio Kolbers
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gdledbetter@aol.com
Ohio Kolbers,
You can add me to the list. I have a Firefly with 315 hours on
engine/airframe. My plane was built by Bryan Melbourn.
I had a hangar for several years at Waynesville but moved it a year ago to
Clearwater Air Park near Owensville, OH.
I actually live in Cincinnati.
Gene Ledbetter
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Snuffy, you are "qualified and will be entered into our new grand prize
drawing for a flight jacket". Please send $ 500.00 to cover postage and
handling. HA, HA!
2000 x 75 is big enough for even me to land in! In this instance it's OK to
brag about size among men. HA, HA!
I'll send you an off site e-mail soon. We all are going to have some flying
to do this year! When I rode bikes it was all about the trip. Getting there
(where ever there was) only meant that the fun was half over. Under the
opportunity to meet others with similar interests, it can always mean that
the trip in just beginning.
Ohio Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of snuffy@usol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ohio Kolbers
--> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
All right Ohio'n, speak-up now or for ever hold your piece! If you live in
> Ohio or near the edge of Ohio in KY, IN, PA, W Va or Mich,
please respond.
Columbiaville, MI. 20 miles NE of Flint.....2000 x 75 EW ........18
acres..plenty of camping room.......
Do not
archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Kolbers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: David Lehman <david@davidlehman.net>
Ralph...
Make my free jacket a "large"...
DVD in "Lovely" Fresno, CalifOhio...
do not archive
On 2/7/06, flht99reh <flht99reh@netzero.net> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
>
> Gene, a pleasure to add you. If you know anyone else in our area that
> perhaps doesn't respond on the Kolb pages here, let us know. We are in the
> midst of creating our own Air Corp. Free flight jackets to the first 500
> new
> members! HA, HA!
>
>
> Ohio Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Gdledbetter@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:15 AM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ohio Kolbers
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gdledbetter@aol.com
>
> Ohio Kolbers,
>
> You can add me to the list. I have a Firefly with 315 hours on
> engine/airframe. My plane was built by Bryan Melbourn.
> I had a hangar for several years at Waynesville but moved it a year ago to
> Clearwater Air Park near Owensville, OH.
> I actually live in Cincinnati.
>
> Gene Ledbetter
>
>
--
=F4=BF=F4 "I started with nothing... And I still have most of it left!"...
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 447 gear oil drain plug |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
Group,
Can anyone tell me what size wrench fits the gear box drain plug . I need
to change the oil and the Firefly is thirty miles away and I need to make
sure I have a wrench to fit it as I tried with a cresent wrench and it started
to round it and there was not enough room for a socket. Seems the only way to
get off is with a box end wrench the correct size.
Thanks,
Ed Diebel
Houston, TX
Message 13
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| Subject: | Repairing damaged UltraStar wing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Kulp" <undoctor@rcn.com>
Hello Kolb builders,
A couple of weeks ago I posted a general question about repairing a damaged wing
from a wind storm breaking a tiedown and flipping the plane on its side. I
appreciate the emails I got, but now that I can talk about it without crying,
I'd like some response from you pros who have built Kolbs to a specific question.
There are three points of damage, the trailing edge of the aileron between two
of the ribs, the device inside the wing where the bolt used to hold the folded
wing screws into is bent from the impact and the bolt is about 15 degrees off,
and the tube which forms the cross section shape of the inboard end of the wing
has a bend. My specific question is: from your experience and knowledge,
which is 100% more than mine, is it feasible to make a cut in the fabric just
large enough to make the repair and then glue and shrink a patch? Or will it
be necessary to uncover the entire wing, make the repairs and completely recover
it again?
I sure would appreciate any insight those who have experience with the covering
aspect of my US. I can take some pics and email them to you if ift would help
to make a more accurate recommendation.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Dave Kulp
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Repairing damaged UltraStar wing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
Dave what kind of paint is on your plane? Aerothane or Poly Tone it will make
a difference on how you will go about your repairs and pictures would be of
some help
Ellery
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Entusiastic group |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Well, You're a bit of an upstart aern't you! Now for me, I am and have been
referred to by many that know me as: bolshie, a Bounder, a dago, but we
Italians are called that not the Spanish! Now you Brits may call this yank a
bit of a gormless, but under sports you only have seven. No wonder you're so
bored! And why so many have become "trainwatchers", duh! Just follow
railroad tracks (insider information). And I thought American bird watchers
were a bored bunch. HA, HA! And if your words are proper 'English" why does
my spell checker dislike your spelling, and for that matter, why hasn't the
web site been updated since Nov 2005?
Though I am a yank, I have been around a bunch of yardie's, yobbo's and
waster's in my life. Never a luvvie, by choice. But somehow the good Lord
above pulled me through it and now I get to hang with a batch of educated
fly-boys! Now that's America.
Ya gottta love that site. Thanks Thom (American would be Tom, Thomas,
Tommy).
Do not archive! ! !
Ralph of Ohio, son of Ralph the mechanic of Ohio, son of Charles of West
Virginia and prior to that someone of Royalty, no doubt! Ha, HA!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bourne
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Entusiastic group
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Kolb related or not, it's great fun. Thanks, Thom. I have a
British/Canadian background and really enjoyed poking around in the
definitions. Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Entusiastic group
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> WARNING - NOT Kolb Related!!
>
> In the spirit of better communication among the various English
> speaking countries, and others who graciously use our language for
> communicating with us, because most of us are barely monolingual, the
> following link might help us to understand each other better. At the
> very least it is entertaining and at times quite funny.
>
> http://english2american.com/
>
> Cheers, Salud, etc.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: VG Installation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
No. Nobody has found the best placement for VG's on a MKIII wing, and
nobody ever will. VG's on Kolb's are like Seafoam, 2 strokes vs. 4
strokes, and when Vamoose will finally fly. Such topics are endlessly
discussed and argued over, but nothing is ever resolved. Such is the
nature of the Kolb list.
However, if you use a flexible tape measure and go from the center of
the leading edge tube up a false rib for ten and a half, or ten and
three quarter inches, or eleven inches, or eleven and one quarter
inches, and install them at that distance, your stall speed will go
down, your slow flight handling will go up, you will be happy, and then
you too will be able to argue the merits of your particular VG
placement, and the Kolb list will continue to thrive.
You will have done your part.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Diego Ospina wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Diego Ospina <dospi@epm.net.co>
>
> Sorry for bringing this subject once again to the list. I've just received a
> set of VG's from Landshorter and I'd like to skip the temporary installation
> so, has anybody found the best placement for a Mark III?
>
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
> Diego Ospina
>
> Kolb Mark III
>
> Colombia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
All Kolb drivers are large, "we don't got no little people". It takes a real
man or (woman loggers only) to be Kolkbers! "It's all in the mind!"
Ohio Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lehman
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ohio Kolbers
--> Kolb-List message posted by: David Lehman <david@davidlehman.net>
Ralph...
Make my free jacket a "large"...
DVD in "Lovely" Fresno, CalifOhio...
do not archive
On 2/7/06, flht99reh <flht99reh@netzero.net> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
>
> Gene, a pleasure to add you. If you know anyone else in our area that
> perhaps doesn't respond on the Kolb pages here, let us know. We are in the
> midst of creating our own Air Corp. Free flight jackets to the first 500
> new
> members! HA, HA!
>
>
> Ohio Ralph
>
>
--
=F4=BF=F4 "I started with nothing... And I still have most of it left!"...
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Repairing damaged UltraStar wing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
If the damage is fairly localized, it is almost always feasible to cut
off a small amount of fabric and do a localized repair. Depending on
what sort of finish was used, it can get a bit complicated, but getting
the new finish to adhere to the old is usually not that big a deal, at
worst you might not be totally satisfied with the cosmetics. If you know
what finish was used, that would help. If you don't know, then call Jim
or Dondi Miller and ask them for advice, I could give you my opinion,
but why not ask a professional? The only real question is if it will be
easy, or a bit of a nuisance.
Several years ago, I had a situation where the fabric shrinking on my
J-6 caused the lightweight built-up wood ribs to buckle just ahead of
the trailing edge. Upon the advice of an A&P, I cut off the trailing
edge fabric within about 6" of the trailing edge, cut a bit of the rib
stitching loose along the aft part of the rib, and lifted a couple
inches of the fabric forward along the ribs, top and bottom. Repaired
and reinforced the ribs, and then pulled the fabric back down,
overlapped new fabric over the old, and bonded the finishes together.
Since I was using Randolph, they bonded very well. Reattached and shrunk
the repair and with a couple extra coats of silver, and lots of
sanding, it was almost un noticeable. That was twenty years ago, and it
is still holding up.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
David Kulp wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Kulp" <undoctor@rcn.com>
>
> Hello Kolb builders,
>
> A couple of weeks ago I posted a general question about repairing a damaged wing
from a wind storm breaking a tiedown and flipping the plane on its side.
I appreciate the emails I got, but now that I can talk about it without crying,
I'd like some response from you pros who have built Kolbs to a specific question.
>
> There are three points of damage, the trailing edge of the aileron between two
of the ribs, the device inside the wing where the bolt used to hold the folded
wing screws into is bent from the impact and the bolt is about 15 degrees off,
and the tube which forms the cross section shape of the inboard end of the
wing has a bend. My specific question is: from your experience and knowledge,
which is 100% more than mine, is it feasible to make a cut in the fabric just
large enough to make the repair and then glue and shrink a patch? Or will it
be necessary to uncover the entire wing, make the repairs and completely recover
it again?
>
> I sure would appreciate any insight those who have experience with the covering
aspect of my US. I can take some pics and email them to you if ift would help
to make a more accurate recommendation.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Dave Kulp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Entusiastic group |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Have lived with the split between the Queens english and "Murican" all my
life. The first thing that struck me about the posting was how did you end
up named after Lord Voldemort?
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Repairing damaged UltraStar wing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Brother Pike has good info. It all comes down to cosmetics, ambition,
and $$$$.
If the existing cover is in good shape and you want to fly instead of
polish...
(that's making shiny, brother Swiderski) patching is nearly always
feasible.
If the existing paint is ultra thick then you may want to do some
stripping in the
overlap area before you cut the fabric. Otherwise some sandpaper to
rough up the
glue area will suffice. Since the ends are not overlapping you will
need at least
3 inch tape or cut a wider strip from a piece of dacron.
I did my new left wing cover using only 2" tape. Since there is an
overlap of the
basic cover the 3" stuff isn't required. -hey, we are still subsonic!
Happy sniffing, BB
On 7, Feb 2006, at 11:21 AM, David Kulp wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Kulp" <undoctor@rcn.com>
>
> Hello Kolb builders,
>
> Dave Kulp
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Macrem'e 101 , 5 easy steps |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Well ? Did anybody "try it"....
You just gotta be kiddin...twist this one, stick it in my finger..., mop up
the blood....., get the pliers..., get the band aid...,
aw hell . Go to the shop and buy a strap.
Cheers
Pat :-)
--
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Entusiastic group aka english/american |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
While living in Europe long ago, I was "motoring" along on a rural
English "motorway" when I became a little lost. Saw a crofter working
a patch, and asked him directions "Gov'ner, striit-wye to the round-
about, watch the zebra stripes, keep hard on." I swear these were his
exact words. Pulling away, my good wife said "whadda he SAY?
Bob N.
do not archive ...and apologies for the off-Kolb msg
Message 23
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| Subject: | Fw: Kolb Manuals |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Kolbers,
I just received this request below, I do not have a flight manual as the FAA only
asks that we placard instruments and controls.
Has anyone here done a flight manual that these folks could adapt to their engine
and airframe?
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony & Wings Malins
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:23 AM
Subject: Kolb Manuals
Hi
I=92ve just finished building a Kolb M3X in Thailand and the civil aviation authorities
there want a flight & maintenance manual for the aircraft prior to registration.
Kolb don=92t give any assistance in this matter and I wonder whether anyone else
can help with info for such manuals?
Many thanks
Tony Malins
--
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Macrem'e 101 , 5 easy steps |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Pat, that requires a lot of thinking on my part. My head hasn't been the
same after viewing the pictures. Why, last night I woke up screaming
"macram" and seeing little wires encircling my body as I sweat and shook
from fear of the unknown. You would think (now this is just the way I think)
that palnecrazyyy would just send one to everyone that asked, wouldn't you.
Imagine, a welder macromeying.......No wonder he likes his dog better than
people. However, there was a time in my life that I would have rather be
cornered by a grizzly than a man. I knew that the only reason that the
grizzly would corner me was for food or protecting the young. Man however,
don't need to stinking reason....bad day at the office, mean wife, drugs,
alcohol, because I wanted to see what blood looked like first hand cause the
games I play on my computer just don't show it that well...etc! He is right
in many ways. LOL
Ralph the appropriate!
Do not archive.....................!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pat ladd
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Macrem'e 101 , 5 easy steps
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Well ? Did anybody "try it"....
You just gotta be kiddin...twist this one, stick it in my finger..., mop up
the blood....., get the pliers..., get the band aid...,
aw hell . Go to the shop and buy a strap.
Cheers
Pat :-)
--
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: VG Installation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Richard Pike wrote:
> No. Nobody has found the best placement for VG's on a MKIII wing, and
> nobody ever will. VG's on Kolb's are like Seafoam, 2 strokes vs. 4
> strokes, and when Vamoose will finally fly. Such topics are endlessly
> discussed and argued over, but nothing is ever resolved.
Hola Diego !!! Hace tiempo que no eschucho nada de ti....
I can not disagree with Richard more on this. There is most definately a best
place to put VG's. The placement and angle of the VG's is critical to get the
maximum benefit from them while not inducing to much darg. The big question
is, has anyone done the testing needed to find out the optimum placement of VG's
for the MK-III, and that I dont know.
I plan on using the same VG's on my MK-III , so be sure you post your results.
Baring someone having done testing with them on the MK-III, I would put them
on as per the instructions provided with them. Wherever you end up putting them,
make sure you get the placement and angles very close, otherwise you might
end up with VG's that do not work as well as they should.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10692#10692
Message 26
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Very cool Richard :) How was it climbing at 10,000 ? What is the highest you
guys have heard of a Kolb going ?
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10693#10693
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/2006 5:30:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
Very cool Richard :) How was it climbing at 10,000 ? What is the highest
you guys have heard of a Kolb going ?
I think John Jung took his Firestar to over 17,000 ft msl. Makes me shiver
when I think about it.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Message 28
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
Wow. Was that with a 503?
> I think John Jung took his Firestar to over 17,000 ft msl. Makes me shiver
> when I think about it.
do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Flying to Mexico |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
WillUribe(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hi Larry,
> I have flow into Mexico and it's not bad at all. It may get a little
> expensive.
> Will Uribe
>
>
That sounds like a lot of fun Will, why is it expensive, landing fees, gas etc
??? I would be interested in hearing about your trip.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10702#10702
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: VG Installation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
I forgot that tongue-in-cheek humor is not always recognized. My
apologies. Perhaps I should have said something more like the following -
I spent a lot of time and effort moving VG's around on my MKIII, and
eventually settled on what I felt was optimum. I spent a lot more time
moving the VG's around on the Firestar II to come up with what seemed
optimum. And have expressed said opinions on numerous occasions.
Probably way too numerous.
Notwithstanding, since this is a list, and since builders of
experimental airplanes tend to experiment, we have on this list a large
number of other worthies who have placed their VG's (of different sizes
and shapes) at different places, different angles, and anything else you
can think of, and all of them will vigorously defend that theirs is the
best placement. Which is why my original post (the part that got snipped
out) offered four different places to put the VG's - because in my
experience, on both the MKIII and the FSII, those placements actually
worked pretty good. And if I had quit experimenting at that point, I
would probably have thought them to be optimum.
Having said that, I have a Kolb-owning friend who is also on this list,
he lives about ten miles from here, and on his almost identical FSII,
the optimum placement for VG's is a bit different from ours, what was
optimum for him was not optimum for us, and vice versa.
Consequently (pay close attention here) when you get around to actually
putting VG's on your MKIII, whatever your optimum placement is will
probably be different from mine, and probably from everybody else's on
this list because they are Experimental airplanes, no two are exactly
alike, they all are slightly different. Different equations give
different results.
To further answer your question, many people have done extensive
testing, and have found optimum placements - on their airplanes. Which
are not exactly the same as on my airplane. And will probably not be the
same as on your airplane. So you too will have to do extensive testing
to find optimum placement - on your airplane.
As far as ending up with VG's that do not work as well as they should -
the Kolb already flies great. You add VG's any where within the accepted
parameters, it flies even better.
Moral of the story: it is great to ice the cake, it makes the cake
better, but if the icing is not perfect, so what? It's still better.
Just be careful you don't end up inducing too much darg. Actually, I no
longer have a darg, I used to have one but she died of old age. However,
I still remember that she really hated being induced....
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
JetPilot wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Richard Pike wrote:
>
>> No. Nobody has found the best placement for VG's on a MKIII wing, and
>> nobody ever will. VG's on Kolb's are like Seafoam, 2 strokes vs. 4
>> strokes, and when Vamoose will finally fly. Such topics are endlessly
>> discussed and argued over, but nothing is ever resolved.
>>
>
>
> Hola Diego !!! Hace tiempo que no eschucho nada de ti....
>
> I can not disagree with Richard more on this. There is most definately a best
place to put VG's. The placement and angle of the VG's is critical to get the
maximum benefit from them while not inducing to much darg. The big question
is, has anyone done the testing needed to find out the optimum placement of
VG's for the MK-III, and that I dont know.
>
> I plan on using the same VG's on my MK-III , so be sure you post your results.
Baring someone having done testing with them on the MK-III, I would put them
on as per the instructions provided with them. Wherever you end up putting
them, make sure you get the placement and angles very close, otherwise you might
end up with VG's that do not work as well as they should.
>
> Michael A. Bigelow
>
> --------
> NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10692#10692
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: VG Installation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 02:20 PM 2/7/06 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>I can not disagree with Richard more on this. There is most definately a best
place to put VG's. The placement and angle of the VG's is critical to get the
maximum benefit from them while not inducing to much darg. The big question
is, has anyone done the testing needed to find out the optimum placement of VG's
for the MK-III, and that I dont know.
>
The archives are full of info on where people have located vg's. Do a
survey, take an average and use this as your initial guess. For the
nonbeliever, the only solution is get busy and mount vg's and move them
around until they have what they consider to be the best solution for them.
Have at it and let us know what you find.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: VG Installation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Howcum my ears are burning ?? Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <richard@bcchapel.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VG Installation
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
> No. Nobody has found the best placement for VG's on a MKIII wing, and
> nobody ever will. VG's on Kolb's are like Seafoam, 2 strokes vs. 4
> strokes, and when Vamoose will finally fly. Such topics are endlessly
> discussed and argued over, but nothing is ever resolved. Such is the
> nature of the Kolb list.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: VG Installation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Alexander" <gtalexander@att.net>
Richard Pike wrote:
> I forgot that tongue-in-cheek humor is not always recognized. My
> apologies. Perhaps I should have said something more like the following -
>
And then Richard Pike some more good stuff wrote:
>
> To further answer your question, many people have done extensive
> testing, and have found optimum placements - on their airplanes. Which
> are not exactly the same as on my airplane. And will probably not be the
> same as on your airplane. So you too will have to do extensive testing
> to find optimum placement - on your airplane.
>
Well said Brother Pike! And for those who would doubt any of the above, as well
as the aforementioned "GOOD STUFF", I would refer them to the photographic evidence
as presented by the infamous Beauford, the Aluminum Butcher from Brandon,
as currently archived in the Photoshare Vault.
For those of you who don't want to bother to search the archives:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/beauford@tampabay.rr.com.11.27.2004/
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--------
George Alexander
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10736#10736
Message 34
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/2006 5:56:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rlaird@cavediver.com writes:
Wow. Was that with a 503?
> I think John Jung took his Firestar to over 17,000 ft msl. Makes me shiver
> when I think about it.
do not archive
No, I think it was with a 377.
He will probably respond soon.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: VG Installation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <neilsenrmf@comcast.net>
George George George
You just had to go and do that again. You didn't mention that Buford did
that to improve his inverted performance. With those VGs his inverted loops
look more like snap rolls.
For those that don't know Bill he sometimes pulls our leg or for those
across the pond "humor"
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Alexander" <gtalexander@att.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:52 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VG Installation
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Alexander" <gtalexander@att.net>
>
>
> Richard Pike wrote:
>> I forgot that tongue-in-cheek is not always recognized. My
>> apologies. Perhaps I should have said something more like the following -
>>
>
>
> And then Richard Pike some more good stuff wrote:
>>
>> To further answer your question, many people have done extensive
>> testing, and have found optimum placements - on their airplanes. Which
>> are not exactly the same as on my airplane. And will probably not be the
>> same as on your airplane. So you too will have to do extensive testing
>> to find optimum placement - on your airplane.
>>
>
>
> Well said Brother Pike! And for those who would doubt any of the above,
> as well as the aforementioned "GOOD STUFF", I would refer them to the
> photographic evidence as presented by the infamous Beauford, the Aluminum
> Butcher from Brandon, as currently archived in the Photoshare Vault.
>
> For those of you who don't want to bother to search the archives:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/beauford@tampabay.rr.com.11.27.2004/
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> --------
> George Alexander
> http://gtalexander.home.att.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10736#10736
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: VG Installation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Hi Mike,
While he may be too modest to point it out, the good Rev. Pike is
one of the most experienced Kolbers out there, and his experiences with VG's
on various Kolbs bear out many of my own. In my case, I fly a varied group
of GA singles and twins with at least 3 different makes of VG's on them.
They vary in size and placement, number and angle, but they seem to be one
of those 'close is enough' devices. A quarter-inch doesn't make any
difference, as does one or two falling off. When you get some real-world
experience, let us know how they work out.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:20 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VG Installation
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Richard Pike wrote:
>> No. Nobody has found the best placement for VG's on a MKIII wing, and
>> nobody ever will. VG's on Kolb's are like Seafoam, 2 strokes vs. 4
>> strokes, and when Vamoose will finally fly. Such topics are endlessly
>> discussed and argued over, but nothing is ever resolved.
>
>
> Hola Diego !!! Hace tiempo que no eschucho nada de ti....
>
> I can not disagree with Richard more on this. There is most definately a
> best place to put VG's.
(Snip)
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10692#10692
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: VG Installation |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/2006 7:18:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
richard@bcchapel.org writes:
I forgot that tongue-in-cheek humor is not always recognized. My
apologies. Perhaps I should have said something more like the following -
You guys are causing me to laugh. If nothing else, its good medicine for
cabin fever.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
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