---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/19/06: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:17 AM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? (ray anderson) 2. 07:14 AM - Re: towers (Charlie England) 3. 07:44 AM - Re: towers (flht99reh) 4. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? (ray anderson) 5. 08:00 AM - Kolb airfoil (Herb Gayheart) 6. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? (flht99reh) 7. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? (Mike Schnabel) 8. 11:25 AM - Re: towers (Mike Schnabel) 9. 12:11 PM - Re: Kolb-List Blade tracking (DAquaNut@aol.com) 10. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Blade tracking (Eugene Zimmerman) 11. 02:15 PM - Immortal words (Kirk Smith) 12. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? aka voting for pres. (Robert Noyer) 13. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: Un-Controlled Surface Chatter ? (Richard Swiderski) 14. 09:15 PM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? aka voting for pres. (Jim Baker) 15. 10:15 PM - best price on 503 (Larry Cottrell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:45 AM PST US From: ray anderson Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson Been flying since 1935, owned 16 different types of aircraft and never, never heard or seen a case of control flutter caused by a trim tab, usually weighing maybe a half ounce loosening. I've used dozens and dozens, had some loosen over time and never seen a problem. I'll concede there may be cases of large motor driven types, with heavy installation on the trailing edge causing problems, never used that type, but a small thin tab, I don't think so. I've been proven wrong about a lot of things in 88 years so take it for what it might be worth. Ray .. down to a non fluttering UltraStar Tennessee do not archive JetPilot wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13251#13251 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:24 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: towers --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England The sad thing is, the core issue isn't 'partisan'. There are astounding parallels between the Johnson administration in the '60s & the current administration. Bottom line: you can *never* trust *any* government, as our founding fathers clearly understood but we have forgotten. You don't have to wait for Ms Clinton for your fears of privacy invasion to be realized. The current one (or at least their computers) is listening to all of our phone calls now (read up on the NSA controversy & understand what's between the lines), they have gathered info on tens of thousands of Americans without warrants using 'national security letters' (does anyone believe that there are tens of thousands of Americans in this country who are terrorists?), the FBI paid visits to members of antiwar groups prior to the last Republican convention & tried to intimidate them into staying away, the FCC is floating a proposal right now to require all handlers of data, meaning internet providers, phone companies, etc, to provide a 'back door' into all their switches & routers so that the Justice Dept can eavesdrop at will, etc etc etc. Be afraid. Be Very Afraid. Ed Chmielewski wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" > >Please gents, spare the partisan politicking. If the present prez were such >a wunderkind, he would repeal all these 'onerous' regs. IMO, he's the worst >prez ever, but you don't hear me whining ad nauseum about it (til it gets >unbearable like now). Is it me, or has the tower thread pony been flailed >enough? > >Do not archive. > >Ed in JXN >MkII/503 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "flht99reh" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:30 AM >Subject: RE: Kolb-List: towers > > > > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" >> >>Now Ted, that really scares me and I'm sure when MZ. Clinton wins election >>two terms out (cause, well we seem to forget the past only weeks ago, and >>she seems so sincere), she will be able to mount the additional "big >>brother" cameras on each one of them as an added bonus to the tax payers. >> >> > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TRCowan >>Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:05 AM >>To: kolb-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Kolb-List: towers >> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: TRCowan >> >>jest a few cents worth. if ya think ya gotta problem now, just wait. the >>mindless powers that be back in the clinton admin, signed into law the >>ability or the probability of the hd tv towers. yep, those can go up >>higher >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:32 AM PST US From: "flht99reh" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: towers --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" In the immortal words of one of my positing predecessors: " If ya don't like something on the web, its your right as a free citizen to turn another channel". Now if you look how this site is laid out, you will quickly note (or perhaps not) that it is entitled 'blinking and flashing flashing and blinking". If you also note it is about towers. If you don't want to read about towers or blinking and flashing, do not click on any of the messages! That's what's referred to as "democracy" not be associated in any way with democrats! And if you don't like a political pun, ignore it. I've had to for both trips of your man(?). Now go fly or something. And "ONE post" about a family member of a x-pres does not make a wining thread, typical demo##$%#%! Politically correct Ralph in Ohio -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Chmielewski Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:16 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: towers --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" Please gents, spare the partisan politicking. If the present prez were such a wunderkind, he would repeal all these 'onerous' regs. IMO, he's the worst prez ever, but you don't hear me whining ad nauseum about it (til it gets unbearable like now). Is it me, or has the tower thread pony been flailed enough? Do not archive. Ed in JXN MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "flht99reh" Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:30 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: towers > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" > > Now Ted, that really scares me and I'm sure when MZ. Clinton wins election > two terms out (cause, well we seem to forget the past only weeks ago, and > she seems so sincere), she will be able to mount the additional "big > brother" cameras on each one of them as an added bonus to the tax payers. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TRCowan > Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:05 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: towers > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: TRCowan > > jest a few cents worth. if ya think ya gotta problem now, just wait. the > mindless powers that be back in the clinton admin, signed into law the > ability or the probability of the hd tv towers. yep, those can go up > higher > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:37 AM PST US From: ray anderson Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson Hey guys, we may be getting into dangerous ground here. I'm sure there are Kolbers on both sides of the fence here with sincere and firm convictions in each view. An example is me. I'm so conservative I though Barry Goldwater was a flaming liberal. I'm surrounded by children and grandchildren who are 'yellow dog democrats'. We have an understanding that we don't get into political discussions around each other. My ties to the Republican party go back to ole Abe Lincoln. My grandfather, yes my grandfather, voted for Abe back in Baltimore before the 'late unpleasantness'. My fathers father was a damn Yankee living there and enlisted in the Union Army and fought through the war before becoming a 'carpetbagger' and moving to Noth Carolina, where be met my grandmother who was only 16-17, and she became besotted with him and married him much to the chagrin of her folks. Reason, her father had fought in the correct army and had been killed in the battle of Petersburg, while her ne w husband (damn yankee) had fought in the same battle for the blue bellies and survived. My father and two brothers were taught sound Republicism at their fathers knee, who passed it on to me. My mother was a 'yellow dog democrat' so you can see I was raised to 'dont discuss politics among family'. When I was a child I heard some interesting conversations when they thought the children were out of earshot !!! Come to think about it, I may be the only person in the group who can claim "My grandaddy voted for Abe Lincoln". So you see, a Kolb doesn't really care who flies it, Republican or Democrat. Ray Tenn.... Non fluttering UltraStar do not archive ray anderson wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson Been flying since 1935, owned 16 different types of aircraft and never, never heard or seen a case of control flutter caused by a trim tab, usually weighing maybe a half ounce loosening. I've used dozens and dozens, had some loosen over time and never seen a problem. I'll concede there may be cases of large motor driven types, with heavy installation on the trailing edge causing problems, never used that type, but a small thin tab, I don't think so. I've been proven wrong about a lot of things in 88 years so take it for what it might be worth. Ray .. down to a non fluttering UltraStar Tennessee do not archive JetPilot wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13251#13251 --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb airfoil From: Herb Gayheart --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb Gayheart Wondering if anyone on the list has a good idea as to why the Kolb airfoil is as it is? The nose shape indicates its stol heritage. Beyond that , has anyone ever done an analysis? Herb ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:00 AM PST US From: "flht99reh" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" Ray and board, you are 100% correct. I thought I was responding to Ed off site and directly. I'm sorry. I know after following this board history that this is where the battle begins. I don't want that for the boards sake, the sake of individuals that rely on the informative side of this site and for the sake of making enemies. We as a people (not party) have enough people mad at us. Ed, I'm sorry. Christ said that they will know you by your actions. My response to you should have been sent only to you and out of love. Sorry. And I agree with Ed, this thread has been used up. There was a time when the site was dead, I had a question, and others had answers. I thank them all for their input. Especial regarding where you can get the information and the interesting part about the HDTV towers in the future. Corrected Ralph of Ohio. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ray anderson Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson Hey guys, we may be getting into dangerous ground here. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:41 AM PST US From: Mike Schnabel Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel Ray, Well spoken eulogy for the thread. May it rest in peace! How interesting it is that you may be, and probably are, the only Kolber with a connection to good old Abe's nomination and eventual presidency. We must find some time to grill a burger or two, i think (Know) i would love to hear some of your other tales! Thanks for helping keep us all on a level plain, without a sense of reality, its easy to lose focus. Always keep your eye on the ball... Mike S Manchester TN do not archive ray anderson wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson Hey guys, we may be getting into dangerous ground here. I'm sure there are Kolbers on both sides of the fence here with sincere and firm convictions in each view. An example is me. I'm so conservative I though Barry Goldwater was a flaming liberal. I'm surrounded by children and grandchildren who are 'yellow dog democrats'. We have an understanding that we don't get into political discussions around each other. My ties to the Republican party go back to ole Abe Lincoln. My grandfather, yes my grandfather, voted for Abe back in Baltimore before the 'late unpleasantness'. My fathers father was a damn Yankee living there and enlisted in the Union Army and fought through the war before becoming a 'carpetbagger' and moving to Noth Carolina, where be met my grandmother who was only 16-17, and she became besotted with him and married him much to the chagrin of her folks. Reason, her father had fought in the correct army and had been killed in the battle of Petersburg, while her ne w husband (damn yankee) had fought in the same battle for the blue bellies and survived. My father and two brothers were taught sound Republicism at their fathers knee, who passed it on to me. My mother was a 'yellow dog democrat' so you can see I was raised to 'dont discuss politics among family'. When I was a child I heard some interesting conversations when they thought the children were out of earshot !!! Come to think about it, I may be the only person in the group who can claim "My grandaddy voted for Abe Lincoln". So you see, a Kolb doesn't really care who flies it, Republican or Democrat. Ray Tenn.... Non fluttering UltraStar do not archive ray anderson wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson Been flying since 1935, owned 16 different types of aircraft and never, never heard or seen a case of control flutter caused by a trim tab, usually weighing maybe a half ounce loosening. I've used dozens and dozens, had some loosen over time and never seen a problem. I'll concede there may be cases of large motor driven types, with heavy installation on the trailing edge causing problems, never used that type, but a small thin tab, I don't think so. I've been proven wrong about a lot of things in 88 years so take it for what it might be worth. Ray .. down to a non fluttering UltraStar Tennessee do not archive JetPilot wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13251#13251 --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:20 AM PST US From: Mike Schnabel Subject: Re: Kolb-List: towers --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel Gentlemen, you are bringing to truth a message one of our founding fathers spoke. Soon after the Declaration of Independance was written, Thomas Jefferson was asked, what sort of government have you given us? His reply, "A Republic, If you can keep it"... somber thoughts, for those that think. Mike S Manchester TN do not archive Charlie England wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England The sad thing is, the core issue isn't 'partisan'. There are astounding parallels between the Johnson administration in the '60s & the current administration. Bottom line: you can *never* trust *any* government, as our founding fathers clearly understood but we have forgotten. You don't have to wait for Ms Clinton for your fears of privacy invasion to be realized. The current one (or at least their computers) is listening to all of our phone calls now (read up on the NSA controversy & understand what's between the lines), they have gathered info on tens of thousands of Americans without warrants using 'national security letters' (does anyone believe that there are tens of thousands of Americans in this country who are terrorists?), the FBI paid visits to members of antiwar groups prior to the last Republican convention & tried to intimidate them into staying away, the FCC is floating a proposal right now to require all handlers of data, meaning internet providers, phone companies, etc, to provide a 'back door' into all their switches & routers so that the Justice Dept can eavesdrop at will, etc etc etc. Be afraid. Be Very Afraid. Ed Chmielewski wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" > >Please gents, spare the partisan politicking. If the present prez were such >a wunderkind, he would repeal all these 'onerous' regs. IMO, he's the worst >prez ever, but you don't hear me whining ad nauseum about it (til it gets >unbearable like now). Is it me, or has the tower thread pony been flailed >enough? > >Do not archive. > >Ed in JXN >MkII/503 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "flht99reh" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:30 AM >Subject: RE: Kolb-List: towers > > > > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" >> >>Now Ted, that really scares me and I'm sure when MZ. Clinton wins election >>two terms out (cause, well we seem to forget the past only weeks ago, and >>she seems so sincere), she will be able to mount the additional "big >>brother" cameras on each one of them as an added bonus to the tax payers. >> >> > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TRCowan >>Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:05 AM >>To: kolb-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Kolb-List: towers >> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: TRCowan >> >>jest a few cents worth. if ya think ya gotta problem now, just wait. the >>mindless powers that be back in the clinton admin, signed into law the >>ability or the probability of the hd tv towers. yep, those can go up >>higher >> >> >> --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:28 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Blade tracking --> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com Group, I have noticed vibration while flying my Firefly. More at certain speeds than others. While I think that this is the norm I am not sure. Is it necessary to track the blades of an I.voprop and how would you go about doing it .I looked in the archieves and found nothing. Ed Diebel (In Houston) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:10 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Blade tracking --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman Ed, Tracking is not normally a problem with the IVO prop. Because of the IVO's flexibility the centrifugal force above idle RPM will pull any slight tracking differences to zero. There is one weakness that the IVO does have though that can affect its smoothness. Because of the way pitch is adjusted by twisting the steel rod inside the blade, it is possible that both blades will not always twist the same amount causing a pitch difference between blades. This is especially so if the pitch is changed to near its extreme position from neutral. This can sometimes feel like a vibration due to a weight imbalance at some power settings. With a good protractor like used to adjust the Warp prop you can easily measure the pitch of each individual blade. If the difference is slight it can be adjusted simply by twisting a blade slightly by hand a bit. Problem is it will probably not stay but eventually return to its original pitch. On Feb 19, 2006, at 3:10 PM, DAquaNut@aol.com wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com > > Group, > > I have noticed vibration while flying my Firefly. More at > certain speeds > than others. While I think that this is the norm I am not sure. Is it > necessary to track the blades of an I.voprop and how would you go > about doing it .I > looked in the archieves and found nothing. > > > Ed Diebel (In Houston) > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:47 PM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Kolb-List: Immortal words --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > In the immortal words of one of my positing predecessors: < "eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" from one of the founding fathers of our representative republic. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:54 PM PST US From: Robert Noyer Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? aka voting for pres. --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer I can't stand idly by and not take up the glove fluttered down by Kolbster Ray Anderson whose grandfather voted fer old Abe. My G- grandfather voted fer James Buchanan, Democrat in 1856 at Akron IN...the town he founded in 1833. How this escaped Moderation isn't clear, and I apologize to all for this unseemly outburst of patriotism. Kolb On Bob N. do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:09 PM PST US From: "Richard Swiderski" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Un-Controlled Surface Chatter ? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" Hey can I get in on this thread if my childhood dog belonged to Kit Carson's great great nephew, who got drafted & gave the dog to me? Richard Swiderski do NOT archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Noyer Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? aka voting for pres. --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer I can't stand idly by and not take up the glove fluttered down by Kolbster Ray Anderson whose grandfather voted fer old Abe. My G- grandfather voted fer James Buchanan, Democrat in 1856 at Akron IN...the town he founded in 1833. How this escaped Moderation isn't clear, and I apologize to all for this unseemly outburst of patriotism. Kolb On Bob N. do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:58 PM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? aka voting for pres. --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" I'm Judge Crater's illigitemate son....... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 '71 SV, 492TC Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:50 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Kolb-List: best price on 503 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" I am considering upgrading to a 503 for my firestar II, and was wondering if any one in this great group of knowledge, would know the best (cheapest) place to obtain this engine? Will I need anything else like a mounting plate or will the 447 one I have fit? I would also entertain suggestions for a three blade prop for it as well. do not archive Larry, Oregon