Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird in (David Key)
2. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird in (robert bean)
3. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird in (David Lehman)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird in (robert bean)
5. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? aka voting for pres. (russ kinne)
6. 09:20 AM - flutter (russ kinne)
7. 11:04 AM - Re: flutter (George E. Thompson)
8. 12:12 PM - Firestar Trailer For Sale (momweyland)
9. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird in (David Key)
10. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird in (robert bean)
11. 01:02 PM - Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? (Dave Bigelow)
12. 01:14 PM - Re: best price on 503 (Dave Bigelow)
13. 03:13 PM - PRINT CHANGE (Bill Vincent)
14. 03:34 PM - Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? (John Hauck)
15. 03:55 PM - Re: best price on 503 (Kirk Smith)
16. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? (robert bean)
17. 06:35 PM - Re: Firestar Trailer For Sale (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
18. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? (Jack B. Hart)
19. 08:10 PM - Re: best price on 503 (Dave Bigelow)
20. 08:23 PM - Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? (JetPilot)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird |
in
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
I have to finish it, it is partly built. It's got all the nicest stuff you
could ever want on it. If you want a plane light on instruments and dials
meters and such then it wouldn't be the one for you.
>From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new
>bird in
>Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:22:27 -0800
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
>Where did you find a MK-III Xtra ?? Was it already built and flying ? I
>would love to hear more about it :D
>
>--------
>NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13477#13477
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird |
in
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Wondering why Ms Turner decided to sell before completion????
It was one of the first "X" kits sold.
Sure ought to be a nice plane.
-BB do not archive
On 21, Feb 2006, at 9:04 AM, David Key wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> I have to finish it, it is partly built. It's got all the nicest stuff
> you
> could ever want on it. If you want a plane light on instruments and
> dials
> meters and such then it wouldn't be the one for you.
>
>
>> From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a
>> new
>> bird in
>> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:22:27 -0800
>>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Where did you find a MK-III Xtra ?? Was it already built and flying
>> ? I
>> would love to hear more about it :D
>>
>> --------
>> NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
>> have !!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13477#13477
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird |
in
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
OK, I give what makes it a "X"...
DVD
do not archive
On 2/21/06, robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> Wondering why Ms Turner decided to sell before completion????
> It was one of the first "X" kits sold.
> Sure ought to be a nice plane.
> -BB do not archive
>
> On 21, Feb 2006, at 9:04 AM, David Key wrote:
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
> >
> > I have to finish it, it is partly built. It's got all the nicest stuff
> > you
> > could ever want on it. If you want a plane light on instruments and
> > dials
> > meters and such then it wouldn't be the one for you.
> >
> >
> >> From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
> >> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a
> >> new
> >> bird in
> >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:22:27 -0800
> >>
> >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
> >>
> >> Where did you find a MK-III Xtra ?? Was it already built and flying
> >> ? I
> >> would love to hear more about it :D
> >>
> >> --------
> >> NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
> >> have !!!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D13477#13477
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
=F4=BF=F4 "I started with nothing... And I still have most of it left!"...
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird |
in
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Xtra?
do not archive
On 21, Feb 2006, at 10:03 AM, David Lehman wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
>
> OK, I give what makes it a "X"...
>
> DVD
>
> do not archive
>
>
> On 2/21/06, robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>>
>> Wondering why Ms Turner decided to sell before completion????
>> It was one of the first "X" kits sold.
>> Sure ought to be a nice plane.
>> -BB do not archive
>>
>> On 21, Feb 2006, at 9:04 AM, David Key wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>>>
>>> I have to finish it, it is partly built. It's got all the nicest
>>> stuff
>>> you
>>> could ever want on it. If you want a plane light on instruments and
>>> dials
>>> meters and such then it wouldn't be the one for you.
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>>>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's
>>>> a
>>>> new
>>>> bird in
>>>> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:22:27 -0800
>>>>
>>>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Where did you find a MK-III Xtra ?? Was it already built and flying
>>>> ? I
>>>> would love to hear more about it :D
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
>>>> have !!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D13477#13477
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> =F4=BF=F4 "I started with nothing... And I still have most of it
> left!"...
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? aka voting for pres. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Bob Noyer, brother Greybeard --
Patriotism is never "unseemly" -- and there's not enough of it. Keep
it up.
A story comes to mind -- a man went in for a physical, doctor said
"You're in great shape for a man of 108! -- how do you do it?"
The man said "I go turkey hunting a lot, but I can't this week; I'm
getting married"
"Why would a 108-year old man want to get married?"
"Who said I wanted to?"
do not archive
On Feb 19, 2006, at 7:59 PM, Robert Noyer wrote:
>
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
In re flutter -- it can be a MOST serious problem at higher aircraft
speeds, and can destroy a control surface in a second or two -- but
doesn't seem to be a big problem at Kolb-speeds. However, it does
induce stresses to the wing and & airframe, and is easily corrected.
Simply remove the control surface, balance it on the hinge-pojnts,
and add or remove weight until it's evenly balanced.
Don't the plans require this?
I doubt adding a thin aluminum strip and a few pop-rivets would cause
a problem, but anything heavier might.
Ailerons seem to be the most commonly affected. A friend had an
aileron self-destruct at speed, in a race, in an F6F. Startling, but
survivable.
The last I knew the FAR's required control surfaces to be re-balanced
anytime they're painted -- It's interesting to note that The Friendly
feels that the weight of the paint alone can be sufficient to induce
flutter.
In any event, this is nothing to fool around with. You don't want to
be an unpaid test-pilot, or stress your bird unnecessarily. Fly safe!
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George E. Thompson" <eagle1@commspeed.net>
I have flown RC aircraft in the past and have seen aileron flutter in RC
aircraft. It happens in a split second and there was nothing you could do to
save the plane.
Az Bald Eagle
----- Original Message -----
From: "russ kinne" <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: flutter
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
> In re flutter -- it can be a MOST serious problem at higher aircraft
> speeds, and can destroy a control surface in a second or two -- but
> doesn't seem to be a big problem at Kolb-speeds. However, it does
> induce stresses to the wing and & airframe, and is easily corrected.
> Simply remove the control surface, balance it on the hinge-pojnts,
> and add or remove weight until it's evenly balanced.
> Don't the plans require this?
> I doubt adding a thin aluminum strip and a few pop-rivets would cause
> a problem, but anything heavier might.
> Ailerons seem to be the most commonly affected. A friend had an
> aileron self-destruct at speed, in a race, in an F6F. Startling, but
> survivable.
> The last I knew the FAR's required control surfaces to be re-balanced
> anytime they're painted -- It's interesting to note that The Friendly
> feels that the weight of the paint alone can be sufficient to induce
> flutter.
> In any event, this is nothing to fool around with. You don't want to
> be an unpaid test-pilot, or stress your bird unnecessarily. Fly safe!
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Firestar Trailer For Sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "momweyland" <momweyland@cox.net>
Does anybody here in the Midwest have a trailer they want to part with?Open or
light enclosed.Thanks to all on the list for all the great info over the years
I've been lurking.
Hank Weyland
Firestar 447
Itching
to Fly
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird |
in
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
She's fallen in love with the new rotorway helicopter. Apparently it's the
next big thing, she's not the only one. They are really nice people, Jerry
and Lisa, they are also qualified by the EAA to teach the LSA repairman
certification course. I'm interested in that, as I understand it it allows
you to work on all LSAs not just the one you built.
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: I got one!!! An Extra with a 912!!! There's a new bird |
in
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
nice toy, but 8 gallons/hr is a touch expensive.
-been there, done that but admit it WOULD be nice on occasion.
-BB
do not archive
On 21, Feb 2006, at 3:07 PM, David Key wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> She's fallen in love with the new rotorway helicopter. Apparently it's
> the
> next big thing, she's not the only one. They are really nice people,
> Jerry
> and Lisa, they are also qualified by the EAA to teach the LSA repairman
> certification course. I'm interested in that, as I understand it it
> allows
> you to work on all LSAs not just the one you built.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave Bigelow" <up_country@hotmail.com>
A few years back, I did the first test flights of John Pitre's Twin Star on floats
at Kaneohe Bay on Oahu. Part of my checklist was to run the elevator trim
full nose up and full nose down to check control stick pressure. His particular
Twinstar had a single cable that ran to one side of the trim tab control horn.
The other side of the control horn had a spring. As you added nose down
trim, the cable loosened and the spring pulled the tab up. I don't know if this
was standard from the plans.
Right after rolling the trim wheel full forward and slacking the cable, the aircraft
started shaking violently. I looked back and saw the elevator fluttering
back and forth several inches very rapidly. I rolled the trim wheel back nose
up and the flutter stopped. I have no doubt that the tail feathers would have
failed in short order if the fluttering had not been stopped.
My take on this is that any movable trim tab on the elevator should be built in
a manner where there is always a positive connection to the horn with no springs
or bungees. I'm not sure what would happen if the connection to the tab horn
ever breaks or becomes disconnected, but I believe the chances of catastrophic
flutter are high.
--------
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, Rotax 503 DCDI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13885#13885
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: best price on 503 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave Bigelow" <up_country@hotmail.com>
Larry,
I'm in the process of converting my Firestar 2 to twin Hirth F-33's. I took off
my 503, but am keeping it until I'm done testing the twin installation. I have
the engines mounted, but still have to work out the throttle hookup, hook
up the fuel system, and do the wiring. I'm thinking about two months more.
The 503 has 50 hours on it, and has never been overheated, seized, or in any way
been abused. It has a B box, twin altitude compensated carbs, powerfin two
bladed prop, and comes with a 503 "Smart Single" digtal engine monitering system
and an analog tach. It's completely ready to go except for the engine mounts,
which can be obtained from Kolb or elsewhere. I used this engine to climb
to 16,000 feet, and it never has missed a beat. You can get back to me via a
Private Message if you are interested.
--------
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, Rotax 503 DCDI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13887#13887
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Vincent" <emailbill@chartermi.net>
WOW
Thank you! Thank you! You made my day! ...and all of us baby boomers, there
will be about 330 baby boomers turning 60 years old each hour; ... 7,918
each day during 2006 in the USA and we all welcome the large print. :-)
Thanks for sharing the information.
Bill Vincent
Firestar II
Old Fogie
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:31 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: towers
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
>
>
> For all you (and me) old fogies out there. If the print is too small to
> read
> follow the below. I couldn't believe it. I thought someone was sending me
> a
> joke. NOT!
>
> Really works. Don't say you didn't learn something from Ralph of Ohio.
>
>
> I just found this out and thought I'd pass it on. It's very useful when
> trying to read small print (especially in the early hours). If you hold
> down the Ctrl key on your key board and then turn the small wheel in the
> middle of your mouse away from you or towards you, the print size will
> change - it will either get larger or smaller - depending on which way you
> turn the wheel
>
>
> Do not archive!
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Here's an NTSB report on a Twinstar fatality caused by elevator trim tab, controlable
type:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X11253&key=1
However, this one was out of control.
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13912#13912
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: best price on 503 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> I'm in the process of converting my Firestar 2 to twin Hirth F-33's. I took off
my 503, but am keeping it until I'm done testing the twin installation. I have
the engines mounted, but still have to work out the throttle hookup, hook
up the fuel system, and do the wiring. I'm thinking about two months more.
>
>
Interesting......One prop or two?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13918#13918
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
I have the stock trim arrangement in my MkIII and it functions ok.
My problem is with inflight adjustments. My seats are in the "wayback"
position making the trim lever unreachable. I'm not about to move the
seat.
I would have to do some tinkering with the handle to get to actually
using it. Last flight with ballast in the passenger seat I guessed at
a couple
notches and lucked out with perfect trim. Looks like I will stick
calibration
marks for weight on the index bar. -Any suggestions are welcome.
-BB
On 21, Feb 2006, at 6:33 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Here's an NTSB report on a Twinstar fatality caused by elevator trim
> tab, controlable type:
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X11253&key=1
>
> However, this one was out of control.
>
> --------
> John Hauck
> MKIII/912ULS
> hauck's holler, alabama
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13912#13912
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar Trailer For Sale |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
momweyland wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "momweyland" <momweyland@cox.net>
>
> Does anybody here in the Midwest have a trailer they want to part with?Open or
light enclosed.Thanks to all on the list for all the great info over the years
I've been lurking.
Hank Weyland
Firestar 447
Itching to Fly
>
>Hank,
I sent you a message through Barnstormer about one here in the east for
sale. ~ Earl
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 08:11 PM 2/21/06 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
>marks for weight on the index bar. -Any suggestions are welcome.
>-BB
>
Bob,
I like to use bungee cords, woven fish line, soft small bore aluminum tubing
and guitar string tighteners for in flight aileron and elevator trim systems.
The history for development on my FireFly can be see at:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly51.html
If the system fails there is no chance for control flutter. It is very
light. The guitar string tighteners were free and came from a junk box at a
musical instrument repair shop.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: best price on 503 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave Bigelow" <up_country@hotmail.com>
Here's a photo of the engines temporarily mounted. The struts are attached to
the original mount with Lord mounts. The engines are each mounted on the struts
with their own set of Barry mounts.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, Rotax 503 DCDI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13984#13984
Attachments:
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface Flutter ???? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
John Hauck wrote:
> Here's an NTSB report on a Twinstar fatality caused by elevator trim tab, controlable
type:
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X11253&key=1
>
> However, this one was out of control.
That is really scarey John... Reading several stories like that and also reading
about some very close calls with trim tabs causing severe flutter convinced
me not to use trim tabs on my MK-III...
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13995#13995
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