Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (planecrazzzy)
2. 04:43 AM - Re: sport pilot tv????????? (robert bean)
3. 04:43 AM - Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (Richard Pike)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (Dennis Watson)
5. 06:40 AM - Re: sport pilot tv????????? (Larry Bourne)
6. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (John Murr)
7. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (John Murr)
8. 08:04 AM - Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (planecrazzzy)
9. 08:51 AM - Re: To cut or not to cut? (JetPilot)
10. 09:08 AM - Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (JetPilot)
11. 09:20 AM - Re: sport pilot tv????????? (JetPilot)
12. 09:20 AM - Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE (pat ladd)
13. 09:33 AM - T6s on water (pat ladd)
14. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (Herb Gayheart)
15. 09:51 AM - Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (planecrazzzy)
16. 10:03 AM - Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (planecrazzzy)
17. 10:10 AM - Fw: T6 Tricks (George E. Thompson)
18. 10:11 AM - Fw: T6 Tricks (George E. Thompson)
19. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (Mike Schnabel)
20. 10:18 AM - Re: T6s on water (Bob Dalton)
21. 10:28 AM - Re: T6s on water (Bob Dalton)
22. 10:59 AM - Re: T6s on water (Eugene Zimmerman)
23. 11:07 AM - Re: T6s on water (Eugene Zimmerman)
24. 12:09 PM - Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts with Buy or Buying (David Lehman)
25. 12:58 PM - Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts with Buy or Buying (Kirk Smith)
26. 01:01 PM - Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts with Buy or Buying (Eugene Zimmerman)
27. 01:18 PM - Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts with Buy or Buying (John Murr)
28. 01:18 PM - Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts with Buy or Buying (John Murr)
29. 01:25 PM - Lift Struts (JW Hauck)
30. 01:33 PM - Re: Buyer Beware!... (planecrazzzy)
31. 02:04 PM - Re: Lift Struts (planecrazzzy)
32. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: T6s on water (flht99reh)
33. 03:06 PM - Leading edge failures (JW Hauck)
34. 03:11 PM - Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts with Buy or Buying (George Bass)
35. 03:16 PM - Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts with Buy or Buying (George Bass)
36. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? aka reduced strength (Robert Noyer)
37. 04:28 PM - Diagonal LE braces (John Murr)
38. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
39. 04:51 PM - Re: Diagonal LE braces (Richard Pike)
40. 04:56 PM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (John Murr)
41. 04:57 PM - Re: Diagonal LE braces (John Murr)
42. 04:59 PM - Re: Leading edge failures (planecrazzzy)
43. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: Leading edge failures (JW Hauck)
44. 05:26 PM - Diagonal Braces (JW Hauck)
45. 06:22 PM - Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts with Buy or Buying (Eugene Zimmerman)
46. 06:27 PM - KEVLAR BRIDLE (frank & margie)
47. 06:37 PM - Re: Leading edge failures (Eugene Zimmerman)
48. 06:40 PM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (Terry Frantz)
49. 06:41 PM - Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE (Robert Noyer)
50. 06:49 PM - Re: Diagonal LE braces (Eugene Zimmerman)
51. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
52. 07:03 PM - Re: Diagonal LE braces (JetPilot)
53. 07:03 PM - Re: Diagonal LE braces (John Murr)
54. 07:12 PM - Re: Diagonal LE braces (Frcole@aol.com)
55. 07:17 PM - Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (JetPilot)
56. 07:22 PM - Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE (JetPilot)
57. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: T6s on water (Ed Chmielewski)
58. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (Robert Noyer)
59. 07:47 PM - Re: Leading edge failures (JetPilot)
60. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (Robert Noyer)
61. 08:09 PM - Catastrophic failure (JW Hauck)
62. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (Ed Chmielewski)
63. 08:13 PM - Re: T6s on water (JetPilot)
64. 08:55 PM - Re: Re: T6s on water (Rick Pearce)
65. 09:08 PM - Re: Diagonal LE braces (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
66. 09:13 PM - Re: Re: Leading edge failures (Eugene Zimmerman)
67. 09:16 PM - Re: Catastrophic failure (Eugene Zimmerman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
You've got a GOOD POINT....I wrote John and asked him if a Chromemoly tube is running
the Full Lenght....If that Streamline is just a
"Sleeve" then those holes wouldn't be a problem....
If not, Then what "you" said...YIKES !!!
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
--------
The more people I know....
The more I like MY DOG
.
.
.
.
.Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19642#19642
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: sport pilot tv????????? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Larry and all, a local builder and a machinist by trade built an RV and
sold it. -too fast. Now he is nearly complete on a Tiger Cub single
place.
Much more fun on grass.
-BB, older and slower every year
do not archive
On 4, Mar 2006, at 11:28 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
>
> Hi,
> Just tried to watch another episode of "Sport Pilot". I was so
> disgusted that I ended up listening to music. It seems to be just
> like the Mag of the same name. Lots of planes but rarely anything that
> qualifies as an actual sport pilot plane. Somehow I don't think they
> get it. They should just change the name to General Aviation and
> forget it. I am real happy that those guys can afford the Piper
> Saratoga's and Glasstar's, hell I can't even afford to feed one of the
> things, so what are we supposed to, sit there with our mouth watering
> saying to ourselves, When I grow up!!!!!!!!!! Actually I'm really not
> interested in any of those things, with the possible exception of a
> few of the RV series. It would be nice to see some of the real
> airplanes featured there though. Apparently my medication is a bit
> off, I had better check.
>
> Larry, Oregon
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Those holes would be real close to the top of my "Bad idea" list.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
planecrazzzy wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
> I've seen my"stock" Lift struts "wiggle/shake" in flight.....I'll
be changing over to the streamline struts....
>
> I'm sure they'll still flex alittle....
>
> I've heard on the list that the chromemoly on the end of the lift struts have
cracked on a couple of different planes....
>
>
> Here's a picture of two holes in a lift strut....I'm looking for YOUR opinion
if this looks like trouble waiting to strike....or are these streamline struts
> "bullet proof" where these hole won't crack with repeated flexing....
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN N381PM ( still improving it
)
>
> --------
> The more people I know....
> The more I like MY DOG
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19614#19614
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pitot_tube_holes_in_lift_strut2_131.bmp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Watson" <djwatson@olg.com>
As a former owner of that very same Firestar, I agree with Eugene, it's
a great plane and I believe just as safe as it ever was. P.S. took it to
Sun-N-Fun a few times and received Reserve Grand Champion or something on
more than one occasion. I have seen pictures of it on web sites all over the
place and took some pride in the fact that it used to be mine. When I owned
it, it was powered by the 503 and it also had a BRS in it, sounds like the
BRS is no longer installed. I put very few hours on it, but it had nothing
to do with the plane, it was all a life timing thing.
When I first purchased the Firestar, I had some concern about it having
a 503 on it but was told by a few folks that I respected that you can never
have too much power as it might come in handy some day. I personally had
never operated it at full power as it just wasn't needed. That Firestar was
my first plane. When I was finished with my UL flight instruction in a Rans
S-12, I jumped into the Firestar and had no problems flying it. By the way,
I'm 6 foot and 210 pounds.
I have been sitting here reading all of the E-Mail about cutting, adding
more ribs, etc. and it has just made me sick thinking about it. I have seen
a man who went from being very happy with his Firestar to a person who it
now seems is afraid of the plane and might have no interest in flying it
again. I hope I'm wrong.
Have you ever seen the video of the Kolb being tested to destruction?
Dennis did up in PA. The Kolb is the only UL that I know of that has been
tested to destruction and it took a lot to do it!! One of the reasons I
wanted a Kolb.
This has been more than I ever have responded to any E-mail. Wish I
knew how to type fast. I'm with Eugene on the offer, but I'll up it by
500.00 Again, just joking!!!
John, you have a great Firestar on your hands that has proven itself
many many times over.
V/R
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene Zimmerman" <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: To cut or not to cut?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
>
>
> On Mar 3, 2006, at 11:04 PM, John Murr wrote:
>
>> Anybody out there interested in a Firestar?
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> By now you know that what you actually have there is a wolf in
> sheep's clothing.
> How much do you want for that dangerous over-stressed Kolb death
> trap? $3500.00?
>
> Only joking of course!
>
> You have a perfectly good plane.
> I've seen it fly numerous times by it's former owner and I think you
> are being influenced to part with a jewel.
> I've flown a five rib Firestar with much higher gross weights than
> yours for many years.
> Fly with common sense and slowdown in rowdy air and you and your
> plane will be fine.
>
> If you do decide to sell that show quality beauty, it is worth a
> premium.
>
> Gene Zimmerman
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: sport pilot tv????????? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Yah, you gotta watch that "listening to music" stuff, Larry. It's been
known to soothe the savage beast.
I do hafta agree with you. Seems like all the magazines are all in favor of
the gee whiz, go fast, glass cockpit, high dollar planes with nearly zero
said about our little toys. Too bad. Any more, I just leaf thru my monthly
Sport Aviation, then throw it in the trash. I've let all the other
subscriptions lapse. Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: sport pilot tv?????????
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
>
> Hi,
> Just tried to watch another episode of "Sport Pilot". I was so disgusted
> that I ended up listening to music. It seems to be just like the Mag of
> the same name. Lots of planes but
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
I'll check next time I go to the airport, but I believe it is a sleeve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:43 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Lift Strut / Stress question
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> You've got a GOOD POINT....I wrote John and asked him if a Chromemoly tube
> is running the Full Lenght....If that Streamline is just a
> "Sleeve" then those holes wouldn't be a problem....
>
> If not, Then what "you" said...YIKES !!!
>
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN
>
> --------
> The more people I know....
> The more I like MY DOG
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19642#19642
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
The BRS was a BRS 1 I believe. It was mounted inside the fuselage. I
removed it because it was 12 years out of date. I have a new BRS 5, but I
haven't mounted it yet. It won't fit inside, so I have to mount it on top.
It's on my "to do: list.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Watson" <djwatson@olg.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: To cut or not to cut?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Watson" <djwatson@olg.com>
>
> As a former owner of that very same Firestar, I agree with Eugene, it's
> a great plane and I believe just as safe as it ever was. P.S. took it to
> Sun-N-Fun a few times and received Reserve Grand Champion or something on
> more than one occasion. I have seen pictures of it on web sites all over
> the
> place and took some pride in the fact that it used to be mine. When I
> owned
> it, it was powered by the 503 and it also had a BRS in it, sounds like the
> BRS is no longer installed. I put very few hours on it, but it had
> nothing
> to do with the plane, it was all a life timing thing.
>
> When I first purchased the Firestar, I had some concern about it having
> a 503 on it but was told by a few folks that I respected that you can
> never
> have too much power as it might come in handy some day. I personally had
> never operated it at full power as it just wasn't needed. That Firestar
> was
> my first plane. When I was finished with my UL flight instruction in a
> Rans
> S-12, I jumped into the Firestar and had no problems flying it. By the
> way,
> I'm 6 foot and 210 pounds.
>
> I have been sitting here reading all of the E-Mail about cutting,
> adding
> more ribs, etc. and it has just made me sick thinking about it. I have
> seen
> a man who went from being very happy with his Firestar to a person who it
> now seems is afraid of the plane and might have no interest in flying it
> again. I hope I'm wrong.
>
> Have you ever seen the video of the Kolb being tested to destruction?
> Dennis did up in PA. The Kolb is the only UL that I know of that has been
> tested to destruction and it took a lot to do it!! One of the reasons I
> wanted a Kolb.
>
> This has been more than I ever have responded to any E-mail. Wish I
> knew how to type fast. I'm with Eugene on the offer, but I'll up it by
> 500.00 Again, just joking!!!
>
> John, you have a great Firestar on your hands that has proven itself
> many many times over.
>
> V/R
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eugene Zimmerman" <etzim62@earthlink.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 8:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: To cut or not to cut?
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 3, 2006, at 11:04 PM, John Murr wrote:
>>
>>> Anybody out there interested in a Firestar?
>>
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> By now you know that what you actually have there is a wolf in
>> sheep's clothing.
>> How much do you want for that dangerous over-stressed Kolb death
>> trap? $3500.00?
>>
>> Only joking of course!
>>
>> You have a perfectly good plane.
>> I've seen it fly numerous times by it's former owner and I think you
>> are being influenced to part with a jewel.
>> I've flown a five rib Firestar with much higher gross weights than
>> yours for many years.
>> Fly with common sense and slowdown in rowdy air and you and your
>> plane will be fine.
>>
>> If you do decide to sell that show quality beauty, it is worth a
>> premium.
>>
>> Gene Zimmerman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hey Guys,
I thought "sleeves" only came in plastic....?
If they make them in Aluminum...would they be easy to "slip over" my stock Lift
Struts.....?
I wouldn't want plastic sleeves , So ,I thought I would have to buy new Chromemoly
inserts and remake my Streamline Aluminum Lift Struts....
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
--------
The more people I know....
The more I like MY DOG
.
.
.
.
.Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19676#19676
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote:
>
>
> David, and others,
>
> I have to take exception to this statement. It is simply not true. If the
> structure is designed so that it will sustain "normal" loads and remain with
> in the elastic limit of the structural material, no fatigue will take place.
> Fatigue can only take place when the material is over stressed beyond its
> elastic limit. When the elastic limit is surpassed, the material will take
> a permanent set, but in most cases it will not fail. To get it to fail, the
> same previously over stressed area must be repeatedly stressed in opposite
> directions until a crack appears. Once the crack is initiated, structural
> strength is greatly reduced. The only way this scenario can be played out
> is if the structure was inadequately designed, or the structure was
> subjected to repeated abuse.
>
> Stay within the design operating limits (normal loads), and you will most
> likely will never over stress the structure. I believe my FireFly receives
> it greatest structural loading upon landing. If you do not beat up your
> plane, it will take care of you.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
> do not archive
You could not be more wrong about metal fatigue. In a perfect world where airplanes
are designed perfectly parts would not fatigue, but we live in the real
world and almost EVERY airplane ever designed has had failrues due to fatigue
under normal operating conditions. From the first commercial jet, the Comet,
metal fatigue started in the window frames and the airplanes started comming
apart only with many thousands of pressure cycles, under NORMAL loads. I remember
some of the L-1011's that I flew going into heavy maintenance due to wing
spar cracks that developed over time and NORMAL use. DC-3's have lost wings
after developing cracks in the wings... The governer of one of the western states
was killed years back when his DC-3 came apart in flight in normal conditions.
Many general aviation airplanes develop cracks in the tails, and AD's require
thier inspection for cracks every so many hours (fatigue). Bottom line
is fatigue cracks have been a constant problem in every type of plane from the
smallest to the biggest. Anyone that says a plane will not fail due to metal
fatigue under normal conditions obviously does not know what he is talking about.
As far as the ultralight in question, the owner was obviously wondering about this
posibility prior to this discussion, why do you think he asked the question
in the first place? This particular firestar is flown very heavy, and has been
subjected to aerobatics (overloads), is very high time, pretty much the same
scenario that caused another Firestars wing to fail... I just wonder how
you can totally discount the possiblity that it could happen again.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19684#19684
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Are there problems with the chromemoly struts ?? This is a question that I asked
Kolb when I bought my MK III and they said the chromemoly round struts were
stronger and more tolerant of negative G's than the streamlined struts.
What have you guys experienced, do the round struts stake themselves to death over
time ? Are the streamlined struts better in the long run ?
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19688#19688
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: sport pilot tv????????? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Larry Cottrell wrote:
>
>
> I am real happy that those guys can afford the Piper Saratoga's and Glasstar's,
hell I can't even afford to feed one of the things, so what are we supposed
to, sit there with our mouth watering saying to ourselves, When I grow up!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
I have been there and done that. I owned a Cessna 310 Twin for a number of years...
It was not half the fun my 150 Aerobat was [Mr. Green] . Most larger general
aviation airplanes are not all that great when you are surrounded by aluminum
with poor visibility, about all they are good for is going from point A
to point B... The real fun is getting in something like a Kolb, flying low,
and seeing everything there is to see along the way. Its not about the destination,
it about the journey :D
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19691#19691
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Your bridal may very well go thru your prop>>
Ouch ! my eyes water at the thought.
I do hope you mean bridle.
Cheers
Pat :-)
--
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Hi All,
sorry my post `Dont try this at home` didn`t work out.
The pics which should have accompanied it showed 4 T6`s apparently landing on water
with each one trailing a wake. The second shot taken from water level showed
that there were no floats but each T6 was just touching the surface of the
water with its wheels. All part of a South African display teams show which has
just been cleared as `safe` by the authorities. That reall is accurate flying.
Unfortunately I have deleted the pic now but if anyone has got it,. put it on.
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb Gayheart <herbgh@juno.com>
Guys
Haven't we discovered , over the years, that normally operated Kolbs
have never had a structural failure? :-) Herb ---MkIII,Ultrastar and
Firefly owner.. not at the same time!! :-)
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:06:27 -0800 "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
> Are there problems with the chromemoly struts ?? This is a
> question that I asked Kolb when I bought my MK III and they said the
> chromemoly round struts were stronger and more tolerant of negative
> G's than the streamlined struts.
>
> What have you guys experienced, do the round struts stake themselves
> to death over time ? Are the streamlined struts better in the long
> run ?
>
> Michael A. Bigelow
>
> --------
> NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
> have !!!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19688#19688
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hi JP,
I don't know about Chromemoly Lift struts.....Mine are Stock Lift Struts.....Aluminum
tube-inside an Aluminum tube....Then Chromemoly bolted on each
end..... "MINE" wiggled and shook from time to time ,while I was flying.....I
don't like that, so I'll be switching over to the Aluminum Streamline Lift Struts
with the Chromemoly inserts like I already have...
And that is why I was questioning the holes in the lift strut in that picture.
"I" think the Streamline Struts are STRONGER....But, their still going to go thru
SOME flexing ...
The problem with the Chromemoly on the Lift Struts that "I've" heard on THIS list.....Is,
Some of them have been found with Cracks.....Didn't one guy "go down"
because the lower chromemoly piece had weakened because of WATER , and then
Failed in Flight....
I've Sheared tubing for lattus on Crane Booms ....Sometimes when the metal had
a little more tensil strength the end of the tube would "split" when Sheared.....If
this happened it would get repaired....but the rest of the Stock would
still have the potential to do the same thing.....We don't know if Kolb is "seeing"
any of this when they go thru the process....
When I've heard of cracks in the material, Thats where "I" think they were from....It
just took alot of FLEXING to bring it out...
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
JetPilot wrote:
> Are there problems with the chromemoly struts ?? This is a question that I
asked Kolb when I bought my MK III and they said the chromemoly round struts were
stronger and more tolerant of negative G's than the streamlined struts.
>
> What have you guys experienced, do the round struts shake themselves to death
over time ? Are the streamlined struts better in the long run ?
>
> Michael A. Bigelow
--------
The more people I know....
The more I like MY DOG
.
.
.
.
.Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19701#19701
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Bliss,
Operated , Stock , Modified.....NEVER? Are you Asking or Telling...
Gotta Fly...
herbgh wrote:
> Guys
> Haven't we discovered , over the years, that normally operated Kolbs
> have never had a structural failure? Herb
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19688#19688
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
The more people I know....
The more I like MY DOG
.
.
.
.
.Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19704#19704
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George E. Thompson" <eagle1@commspeed.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: Billgaylehavel@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: T6 Tricks
Early morning anglers are treated to the spectacle of four T6 Harvard Aircraft
from The Flying Lions Aerobatic Team waterskiing across the Klipdrift Dam near
Johannesburg South Africa
This unusual act, approved by the South African Civil Aviation Authority (CAA),
and supported by Castrol Aviation, was meticulously planned and took place
under the watchfull eye of divers and paramedics that were on site.
This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George E. Thompson" <eagle1@commspeed.net>
Here are those pictures of the T 6's. I hope they come through. The Az Bald Eagle
----- Original Message -----
From: Billgaylehavel@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: T6 Tricks
Early morning anglers are treated to the spectacle of four T6 Harvard Aircraft
from The Flying Lions Aerobatic Team waterskiing across the Klipdrift Dam near
Johannesburg South Africa
This unusual act, approved by the South African Civil Aviation Authority (CAA),
and supported by Castrol Aviation, was meticulously planned and took place
under the watchfull eye of divers and paramedics that were on site.
This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2@yahoo.com>
Dennis, I would love to see the video of the Kolb flown to the point of destruction.
Do you have a copy? Is it on the internet anywhere? If not, and if i could
get a copy, i would be glad to post it on the net for all the Kolb'ers to view.
So anyone that has a copy, please contact me.
Mike S
Manchester TN
Firestar 2 503
do not archive
Have you ever seen the video of the Kolb being tested to
destruction?
> Dennis did up in PA. The Kolb is the only UL that I know of that has
been
> tested to destruction and it took a lot to do it!!
Dennis Watson <djwatson@olg.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Watson"
As a former owner of that very same Firestar, I agree with Eugene, it's
a great plane and I believe just as safe as it ever was. P.S. took it to
Sun-N-Fun a few times and received Reserve Grand Champion or something on
more than one occasion. I have seen pictures of it on web sites all over the
place and took some pride in the fact that it used to be mine. When I owned
it, it was powered by the 503 and it also had a BRS in it, sounds like the
BRS is no longer installed. I put very few hours on it, but it had nothing
to do with the plane, it was all a life timing thing.
When I first purchased the Firestar, I had some concern about it having
a 503 on it but was told by a few folks that I respected that you can never
have too much power as it might come in handy some day. I personally had
never operated it at full power as it just wasn't needed. That Firestar was
my first plane. When I was finished with my UL flight instruction in a Rans
S-12, I jumped into the Firestar and had no problems flying it. By the way,
I'm 6 foot and 210 pounds.
I have been sitting here reading all of the E-Mail about cutting, adding
more ribs, etc. and it has just made me sick thinking about it. I have seen
a man who went from being very happy with his Firestar to a person who it
now seems is afraid of the plane and might have no interest in flying it
again. I hope I'm wrong.
Have you ever seen the video of the Kolb being tested to destruction?
Dennis did up in PA. The Kolb is the only UL that I know of that has been
tested to destruction and it took a lot to do it!! One of the reasons I
wanted a Kolb.
This has been more than I ever have responded to any E-mail. Wish I
knew how to type fast. I'm with Eugene on the offer, but I'll up it by
500.00 Again, just joking!!!
John, you have a great Firestar on your hands that has proven itself
many many times over.
V/R
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene Zimmerman"
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: To cut or not to cut?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman
>
>
> On Mar 3, 2006, at 11:04 PM, John Murr wrote:
>
>> Anybody out there interested in a Firestar?
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> By now you know that what you actually have there is a wolf in
> sheep's clothing.
> How much do you want for that dangerous over-stressed Kolb death
> trap? $3500.00?
>
> Only joking of course!
>
> You have a perfectly good plane.
> I've seen it fly numerous times by it's former owner and I think you
> are being influenced to part with a jewel.
> I've flown a five rib Firestar with much higher gross weights than
> yours for many years.
> Fly with common sense and slowdown in rowdy air and you and your
> plane will be fine.
>
> If you do decide to sell that show quality beauty, it is worth a
> premium.
>
> Gene Zimmerman
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: T6s on water |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob Dalton" <wiserguy@comcast.net>
Pat and all,
Here is a picture of the T6's on water.
Bob Dalton
do not archive
--------
Bob Dalton
Manteca, Ca.
wiserguy@comcast.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19710#19710
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/t6_on_water_198.jpg
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: T6s on water |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob Dalton" <wiserguy@comcast.net>
Gang,
Here are two more of the T6's on water.
Bob D.
do not archive
--------
Bob Dalton
Manteca, Ca.
wiserguy@comcast.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19711#19711
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/t63_174.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/t62_198.jpg
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: T6s on water |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Eugene Zimmerman" <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Not Kolb, but check this! click on "river run"
http://lazair.com/kitfox/index.php?showtopic=133
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19722#19722
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: T6s on water |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Eugene Zimmerman" <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Wheels down water landing ????
http://lazair.com/kitfox/index.php?showtopic=112
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19723#19723
Message 24
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| Subject: | Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line |
starts with Buy or Buying
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
It sounds like I wasn't too bright when I bought a Kolb...
I soloed 4 different types of airplanes on my 16th birthday and I'll be 60
this year... I've owned 33 different airplanes and helicopters during that
time... I've had a North American T-6, a couple of BT-13s, a Cessna "Bamboo
Bomber", 4 Cessna 180s, a 185, a couple of Bonanzas, a couple of Republic
Seabees, a Mooney Mite, a 1929 Stearman C3B, a couple of Robertson B1-RDs
and on and on and on... I've flown a Molt Taylor Aerocar (for a Japanese TV
commercial no less, worst airplane I've ever flown) done aerobatics in a
Bucker Jungmeister (the single place, Siemens engine, most delightful
airplane I've ever flown), flown a Ranger powered Great Lakes across the
country East to West and a DeHavilland Chipmunk South to North, etc.,
etc... All this pomp and circumstance to support the fact that I'm not new
to aviation...
Now I've reached a point in my life where I want a strong, non-complex,
fun-to-fly, no-nonsense airplane to enjoy... I did my homework (so I
thought) and bought the Firestar... I originally wanted an Ultrastar (still
do for that matter, naw), but found a reasonably priced early 5-rib Firestar
and I kind of liked the idea of having the first of something (it's the
antique collector in me)... I read every article I could find on Kolbs,
started the Yahoo KolbUltrastar group because some of the Ultrastar guys
wanted their own place to play on the web, read the postings on the
Kolb-List, heard about how pilots were yanking/banking/landing hard/etc.
their Kolbs and they just kept on ticking, saw the pictures of the Ultrastar
doing loops, etc... Apparently my mistake was not going to the Kolb-List
archives and looking for Firestar wing failures... Nobody's fault but my
own...
Which brings me to today... I have a garage full of ready-to fly/crash
early Firestar that probably is about due for recover, has an antiqued
503/belt drive, 850x6 tires, VGs, etc., that I had planned to enjoy for a
year or two before I recovered it (it used to be "her", now it's "it") that
I haven't flown and I don't even want to go in the garage to see... I don't
want to junk it out (hurts my pride), the local Parks Dept. won't want it
for kids to play in and I certainly don't want to sell it to someone because
they'll probably get hurt in "it"...
Not real sure why I wrote this dissertation, maybe looking for pity, maybe
to "get it off my chest", most likely to warn prospective buyers to do their
homework better than I did...
Disillusioned/Discouraged/Disappointed/Depressed/David in "Lovely" Fresno
remembering what P.T. Barnum said...
--
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line |
starts with Buy or Buying
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>
> Disillusioned/Discouraged/Disappointed/Depressed/David
:(........ that's ok froggy....there's another one in the drawer.
Do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line |
starts with Buy or Buying
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Mar 5, 2006, at 3:06 PM, David Lehman wrote:
>
> Disillusioned/Discouraged/Disappointed/Depressed/David in "Lovely"
> Fresno
> remembering what P.T. Barnum said...
>
> --
David,
I'm willing to be your enemy who you would be delighted to dispose of
forever.
Just donate that Firestar death trap to me, and you will be rid of me
forever. I promise.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject |
line starts with Buy or Buying
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net> line starts with
Buy or Buying
Gene,
I thought you wanted mine!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene Zimmerman" <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts
with Buy or Buying
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2006, at 3:06 PM, David Lehman wrote:
>>
>> Disillusioned/Discouraged/Disappointed/Depressed/David in "Lovely"
>> Fresno
>> remembering what P.T. Barnum said...
>>
>> --
>
> David,
> I'm willing to be your enemy who you would be delighted to dispose of
> forever.
>
> Just donate that Firestar death trap to me, and you will be rid of me
> forever. I promise.
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject |
line starts with Buy or Buying
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net> line starts with
Buy or Buying
David,
I think you are overreacting to what you have read here recently. Everybody
has their own opinion as have expressed them here. It ranged from don't fly
that Firestar to don't worry about it. The truth is probably somewhere in
between. An ultralight is just that. Don't fly it like wasn't designed to
and you (we) should be fine. Personally, I'm putting the BRS on, losing 40
pounds, and not pushing the plane. I'm even going to leave the electric
starter on. I preflight every time and inspect the airplane often. The
previous owner flew it over 650 hours and took VERY good care of it. He was
meticulous about everything. There is an entry in the log book that said
"did first loop" That was at 34 hours. Surely something would have given by
now if it had damaged the structure. I feel more comfortable flying my
plane than I would in the first 20 hours of a new one.
What is the history of your plane? How many hours? Was it kept near the
ocean? Was it always hangered? Was regular maintenance performed? Why does
it need recovered? These are some of the things you need to consider. The
Firestar is not a bad design. Improvements have been made over the years
yes, but that doesn't mean the original ones, such as ours are trash.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:06 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line starts with
Buy or Buying
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
>
> It sounds like I wasn't too bright when I bought a Kolb...
>
> I soloed 4 different types of airplanes on my 16th birthday and I'll be 60
> this year... I've owned 33 different airplanes and helicopters during
> that
> time... I've had a North American T-6, a couple of BT-13s, a Cessna
> "Bamboo
> Bomber", 4 Cessna 180s, a 185, a couple of Bonanzas, a couple of Republic
> Seabees, a Mooney Mite, a 1929 Stearman C3B, a couple of Robertson B1-RDs
> and on and on and on... I've flown a Molt Taylor Aerocar (for a Japanese
> TV
> commercial no less, worst airplane I've ever flown) done aerobatics in a
> Bucker Jungmeister (the single place, Siemens engine, most delightful
> airplane I've ever flown), flown a Ranger powered Great Lakes across the
> country East to West and a DeHavilland Chipmunk South to North, etc.,
> etc... All this pomp and circumstance to support the fact that I'm not
> new
> to aviation...
>
> Now I've reached a point in my life where I want a strong, non-complex,
> fun-to-fly, no-nonsense airplane to enjoy... I did my homework (so I
> thought) and bought the Firestar... I originally wanted an Ultrastar
> (still
> do for that matter, naw), but found a reasonably priced early 5-rib
> Firestar
> and I kind of liked the idea of having the first of something (it's the
> antique collector in me)... I read every article I could find on Kolbs,
> started the Yahoo KolbUltrastar group because some of the Ultrastar guys
> wanted their own place to play on the web, read the postings on the
> Kolb-List, heard about how pilots were yanking/banking/landing hard/etc.
> their Kolbs and they just kept on ticking, saw the pictures of the
> Ultrastar
> doing loops, etc... Apparently my mistake was not going to the Kolb-List
> archives and looking for Firestar wing failures... Nobody's fault but my
> own...
>
> Which brings me to today... I have a garage full of ready-to fly/crash
> early Firestar that probably is about due for recover, has an antiqued
> 503/belt drive, 850x6 tires, VGs, etc., that I had planned to enjoy for a
> year or two before I recovered it (it used to be "her", now it's "it")
> that
> I haven't flown and I don't even want to go in the garage to see... I
> don't
> want to junk it out (hurts my pride), the local Parks Dept. won't want it
> for kids to play in and I certainly don't want to sell it to someone
> because
> they'll probably get hurt in "it"...
>
> Not real sure why I wrote this dissertation, maybe looking for pity, maybe
> to "get it off my chest", most likely to warn prospective buyers to do
> their
> homework better than I did...
>
> Disillusioned/Discouraged/Disappointed/Depressed/David in "Lovely" Fresno
> remembering what P.T. Barnum said...
>
> --
>
>
>
Message 29
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
Folks;
The chromemoly ends of the lift struts are heated before they are flattened,
and some may not get normalized and are brittle.
The cracking may be cause from this. Also, not slightly chamfering the bolt
holes may cause the cracking from the sharp edges. Another factor is that
most Kolb's use pins to retain the lift struts which is a loose fit.
Vibration can also cause these item to crack.
As far as I know, I built the first round chromemoly lift struts for Bro
John in 1992, replacing chromemoly stream lined struts. The round are
stronger overall and a bunch cheaper. John added Aluminum streamlined tubing
to the outside for cosmetic and aero dynamic results.
In the ends of the struts I welded bushings for the attaching bolt, these
bushings were cut to fit the attach points eliminating any slop.
These struts have lasted over 2400 hours with no problems.
Jim Hauck
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Buyer Beware!... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hey,
Chin up.... We had a guy here....Ken?....He bought a Kolb Firestar from
the company that builds them....Light speed or somethin....
Anyway, After he did some research on the subject....he ordered the Wing kit....Built
the 7 rib wings, and sold the 5 rib wings cheap ( their are people who
can use them )
Maybe you could use a "B" box too...
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
--------
The more people I know....
The more I like MY DOG
.
.
.
.
.Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19753#19753
Message 31
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hi Jim,
How "thick" was the round chromemoly tubing that you made the Lift struts
with ? ( how about I.D & O.D. )
I like that idea of having a full length chromemoly and
Alum streamline sleeve.
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN N381PM
--------
The more people I know....
The more I like MY DOG
.
.
.
.
.Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19756#19756
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: T6s on water |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
I don't know Bob, I'm gonn'a want to check on the truthorfiction site. They
look pretty fake to me. To perfect, if you know what I mean.
Amused in Ohio Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Dalton
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: T6s on water
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob Dalton" <wiserguy@comcast.net>
Pat and all,
Here is a picture of the T6's on water.
Bob Dalton
do not archive
--------
Bob Dalton
Manteca, Ca.
wiserguy@comcast.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19710#19710
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/t6_on_water_198.jpg
Message 33
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| Subject: | Leading edge failures |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
Folks;
All this hysteria of failing leading edges, is blown way out in space.
I know of two, one I am very close to and the other I didn't know the
individual.
Both instances, the Firestars were flown hard and put away wet too many
times.
How many Firestars have been built and flying, thousands.
On the instance that I am close to, the cause was failure of the 5/16
diagonal leading edge braces, failure cause, more than likely failure from
vibration.
Once these diagonals are no longer attached, under the right conditions, the
leading edge of the wing more than likely shifts to outboard end of the
wing, causing the ribs to get out of column and once this starts the leading
edge folds back and creates an instant spoiler. The wing tip bow will not
keep the ribs in column in the stock configuration. It doesn't make any
difference whether it is a 5 rib or 7 rib wing. Once those diagonals go the
leading edge is free to move at some time. Then again it may not.
The best fix is to use 1/2 .058 wall aluminum tubing to replace the 5/16
braces. Do not flatten the attaching ends all the way, leave about an 1/8
inch opening in the ends of the tube. Add the aluminum angle to the outboard
rib along with replacing the bow tip tube braces with the 1/2 material and
place a 062 aluminum web connecting the two bow supports.
All you wizards that don't believe that vibration causes fatigue better take
a hand full of smart pills.
Jim Hauck
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line |
starts with Buy or Buying
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Bass" <gtb@commspeed.net>
David;
I've been a lurker on this site for several years now.
Always hoping that I'll somehow develop that little (?)
extra cash that would allow me to purchase one of
the Kolb family aircraft (er, vehicles).
I've accumulated about 250 hours in UL's over the
years, in a fair number of different designs, and the
most enjoyable plane, by far, was the Kolb. That's
why I'm still monitoring this list, .... hoping.
If you have no other "needy" folks inline for the Kolb
that you are suggesting that needs to be rebuilt, or
atleast recovered, I would like to be considered for the
opportunity. Could be the only way I may get to be
the owner of one.
I've even had the pleasure of flying one of the great
Kolb aircraft that AZDave had owner (his 1-seat).
before he sold it (I couldn't afford that one either).
I wish you well, and hope you get to fly as much as
you want to, and expect that you will see that this
plane gets the home it rightfully deserves.
George
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject line |
starts with Buy or Buying
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Bass" <gtb@commspeed.net>
List;
My appologies to the list for the last post regarding
the Kolb comments intended for David Lehman.
Should have been a little more careful in "sending"
it to the correct party.
George
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? aka reduced strength |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
Ck this fer reduced strength: http:www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/B-17.png
regards,
Bob N.
a58r@verizon.net
Message 37
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| Subject: | Diagonal LE braces |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
I got my plans out (Firestar # 86) and looked at the detail for the wing construction.
There are two 5/16 diagonal braces off of the root rib that keep the LE
in column. That's it. I'm going to look in one the inspection covers (or make
a new one) and inspect these braces. If they are secure and I don't do anything
crazy, I feel I should be alright. Any comments are welcome.
Also a very easy thing to do would be to add a removable (would have to be to fold
and unfold) brace such as a tube that slides over and locks the leading edge
tubes joining the two wings together as one. I would think that this would
lock to entire wing together as one and keep the leading edge in column.
John
Firestar #86
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
In a message dated 3/4/2006 6:25:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tkrolfe@usadatanet.net writes:
You should be advised that the Memorial Day Fly-in isn't going to be at
Smoketown this year. Seems that some disgruntled and "wiser" heads have
decided to move it to Lancaster Airport which is a controlled airspace.
Hi Terry,
Oh no! That's terrible! What are they thinking?
Well, that lets me out. I'm not equipped to fly in controlled airspace.
But, if Smoketown is still UL friendly, I guess there's nothing to stop us from
going there on our own. We can still fly in and have breakfast or lunch.
Just have to walk up the street to that great little restaurant around the
corner.
Thanks for the info.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Diagonal LE braces |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Excellent idea. Especially if you tied the joiner to the gap seal so
that it couldn't move either left or right.
Or else made the gap seal so that it couldn't move left or right, (a
snug fit between the two root ribs?) and then had a way to just pin each
leading edge to it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
John Murr wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
>
> Also a very easy thing to do would be to add a removable (would have to be to
fold and unfold) brace such as a tube that slides over and locks the leading
edge tubes joining the two wings together as one. I would think that this would
lock to entire wing together as one and keep the leading edge in column.
>
>
> John
>
> Firestar #86
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
All you need is a radio to fly into class D airspace. There are ultralights
based there. Don't let this discourage you from attending.
----- Original Message -----
From: <WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: To cut or not to cut?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 3/4/2006 6:25:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> tkrolfe@usadatanet.net writes:
>
> You should be advised that the Memorial Day Fly-in isn't going to be at
> Smoketown this year. Seems that some disgruntled and "wiser" heads have
> decided to move it to Lancaster Airport which is a controlled airspace.
>
>
> Hi Terry,
>
> Oh no! That's terrible! What are they thinking?
>
> Well, that lets me out. I'm not equipped to fly in controlled airspace.
> But, if Smoketown is still UL friendly, I guess there's nothing to stop
> us from
> going there on our own. We can still fly in and have breakfast or lunch.
> Just have to walk up the street to that great little restaurant around
> the
> corner.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
>
> Bill Varnes
> Original Kolb FireStar
> Audubon NJ
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Diagonal LE braces |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
And there are 15 false ribs per side. I know they don't have as much
strength as the full ribs, but there is some added strength. They do more
than just hold the canvas taunt. As others said before, if the LE is kept
in column then the wing is very strong.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:24 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Diagonal LE braces
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
>
> I got my plans out (Firestar # 86) and looked at the detail for the wing
> construction. There are two 5/16 diagonal braces off of the root rib that
> keep the LE in column. That's it. I'm going to look in one the inspection
> covers (or make a new one) and inspect these braces. If they are secure
> and I don't do anything crazy, I feel I should be alright. Any comments
> are welcome.
>
> Also a very easy thing to do would be to add a removable (would have to be
> to fold and unfold) brace such as a tube that slides over and locks the
> leading edge tubes joining the two wings together as one. I would think
> that this would lock to entire wing together as one and keep the leading
> edge in column.
>
>
> John
>
> Firestar #86
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge failures |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hi Jim,
So let me ask this.....The leading edge that almost "touch" each other
in the wing gap area.....Should there be something that connects these two
together for a little added support during flight ?
After reading your post....I think "it wouldn't hurt"
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
--------
The more people I know....
The more I like MY DOG
.
.
.
.
.Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19780#19780
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge failures |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
That still won't solve the problem, as both leading edges would move
together. The only fix is making sure you have diagonal bracing on each
wing.
On 3/5/2006 7:58:53 PM, kolb-list@matronics.com wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Jim,
> So let me ask this.....The leading edge that almost "touch" each other in
> the wing gap area.....Should there be something that connects these two
> together for a little added support during flight ?
>
> After reading your post....I think "it wouldn't hurt"
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN
>
> --------
> The more people I know....
> The more I like MY DOG
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19780#19780
>
>
Message 44
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
Folks,
The diagonals on the inboard rib was never designed to reinforce the leading
edge, they were placed there to keep the fabric from pulling the nose of the
inboard rib from pulling in when shrinking the fabric.
By slitting the fabric, there is amble room to replace these braces without
having to remove the fabric from the wing. The bow braces could be placed by
removing the fabric from the outboard rib out.
Bye adding 1/2 tubes there will do the same job and also reinforce the
leading edge. Two diagonals on the bow tip at 45 degrees from the spar will
keep everything in column.
Jim Hauck
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Buyer Beware!... 0.12 SUBJ_BUY Subject |
line starts with Buy or Buying
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Mar 5, 2006, at 4:16 PM, John Murr line starts with Buy or Buying
wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
> line starts with Buy or Buying
>
> Gene,
>
> I thought you wanted mine!
LOL, Yeah yours too.
Just in case I find I have more than one enemy.
:-)
Message 46
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "frank & margie" <frank-margie@worldnet.att.net>
REFERENCE: --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
No... the 2nd chantz had a "nylon" bridal back then. The BRS had a
'steel" bridal
back then, but they have switched to "kevlar" now. I think they know what they
are doing, at least I hope they do. Your bridal may very well go thru your prop
and I think that is why they switched to kevlar. It will take lickin'
(even from a warp drive)
and keep on tickin'.
-----------------------------------------------------
Thanks! I knew about the earlier steel bridle from BRS (I've still got one around
somewhere from an Eagle, which I guess dates me a little----), but I didn't
know what 2nd Chantz used, and Jonn's post made me wonder.
Frank Clyma
do not archive
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge failures |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Mar 5, 2006, at 6:03 PM, JW Hauck wrote:
>
> All you wizards that don't believe that vibration causes fatigue
> better take
> a hand full of smart pills.
>
> Jim Hauck
Jim,
Whose Kolb airframe has more high stress hours on than brother John's?
How close to catastrophic failure is his plane today?
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry Frantz <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 3/4/2006 6:25:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>tkrolfe@usadatanet.net writes:
>
>You should be advised that the Memorial Day Fly-in isn't going to be at
>Smoketown this year. Seems that some disgruntled and "wiser" heads have
>decided to move it to Lancaster Airport which is a controlled airspace.
>
>
>Hi Terry,
>
>Oh no! That's terrible! What are they thinking?
>
>Well, that lets me out. I'm not equipped to fly in controlled airspace.
>But, if Smoketown is still UL friendly, I guess there's nothing to stop us from
>going there on our own. We can still fly in and have breakfast or lunch.
>Just have to walk up the street to that great little restaurant around the
>corner.
>
>Thanks for the info.
>
>
>Bill Varnes
>Original Kolb FireStar
>Audubon NJ
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>
Bill, If you and your buddy decide to fly into Smoketown on Memorial
Day any way let me know and I will join you. I didn't lose anything at
Lancaster Airport and don't intend to go there to find it. Smoketown is
more than UL friendly all of the time!!!!!!
Terry
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
OK, follow me: bridle=a harness; bridel=marriage. Come to think of
it, dang near the same!
regards,
Bob N.
a58r@verizon.net
do not archive
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Diagonal LE braces |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Mar 5, 2006, at 7:24 PM, John Murr wrote:
>
> Also a very easy thing to do would be to add a removable (would
> have to be to fold and unfold) brace such as a tube that slides
> over and locks the leading edge tubes joining the two wings
> together as one. I would think that this would lock to entire wing
> together as one and keep the leading edge in column.
>
>
> John
>
> Firestar #86
John, very good idea !
That is one thing I did do to the five rib plane I wrote to you
about. I did not fold my plane but I connected the leading edges
with a bolt in tube to which the gap cover was also secured.
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
I have swiched to the streamline struts on my firestar because all that
movement, vibration in the old round ones made me nervous and the streamline
struts dont move at all and there less drag
only my opinion take it for what you paid for it
Ellery in Maine Original Firestar changed a bit :o)
do not archive
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Diagonal LE braces |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
jdm(at)wideworld.net wrote:
>
>
> Also a very easy thing to do would be to add a removable (would have to be to
fold and unfold) brace such as a tube that slides over and locks the leading
edge tubes joining the two wings together as one. I would think that this would
lock to entire wing together as one and keep the leading edge in column.
>
> John
>
> Firestar #86
Hi John,
That idea really scares me. If those wings tend to move in flight in relation
to each other even a little bit, you will adding huge stresses to those diagnal
tubes you were talking about. I beleive that you could end up inducing a failure
that way. Joining the leading edges like that could cause stress to the
leading edge portions of both wings that you have not considered. That would
take quite a bit of analysis to see what the effects of that would be. I suggest
you call Kolb tech support and see what they think about that.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19810#19810
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Diagonal LE braces |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
Gene,
Can you resend that e-mail you are referring to. I deleted it by mistake.
Thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene Zimmerman" <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Diagonal LE braces
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2006, at 7:24 PM, John Murr wrote:
>>
>> Also a very easy thing to do would be to add a removable (would
>> have to be to fold and unfold) brace such as a tube that slides
>> over and locks the leading edge tubes joining the two wings
>> together as one. I would think that this would lock to entire wing
>> together as one and keep the leading edge in column.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>> Firestar #86
>
> John, very good idea !
> That is one thing I did do to the five rib plane I wrote to you
> about. I did not fold my plane but I connected the leading edges
> with a bolt in tube to which the gap cover was also secured.
>
>
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Diagonal LE braces |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Frcole@aol.com
Just talking about the leading edge tube on the Firestar, the only purpose I
can see is that it supports the ribs from bowing under fabric loads and maybe
sees a little bending but I had never considered it critical. The false ribs
on a FS2 would not support the LE tube from wiggling span wise as they are
pinned to the main spar with just one rivet and cannot take any sideways bending.
On my plane I could not stand the thought of drilling a hole so near the max
tension location on the main spar and I glued them to the spar instead. Poor
idea as several of them have broken free of the spar and rattle at idle. Have
to fix them one day.
We had a guy inadvertently fly a Firestar that did not have the spar to cage
pins safetyed. In the pattern one wing leading edge started moving up, pilot
grabbed the wing and held it while he landed. Good job both pins did not back
out.
Dick C
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Thanks Mike,
The lift struts is something I have not really put much thought into. I was going
to put a Jury Strut on my MK-III like John Hauck did, but when I talked to
Kolb they told me that the new struts were quite a big stronger and that it would
not be needed. I did not do any further research on this topic since then...
I will have one of the faster MK-III's built, with the 912-S, the very efficient
Kiev Hot prop, and wheel pants it should be pushing the airspeed limits.
Has anyone ever seen these vibrations in the round lift struts in a MK-III Xtra
at high speeds ???
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19820#19820
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Possum wrote:
>
>
> Your bridal may very well go thru your prop
> and I think that is why they switched to kevlar. It will take lickin'
> (even from a warp drive)
> and keep on tickin'.
>
That is something I had not really thought about, but seems very likely [Shocked]
If I ever need to pop the chute I will make sure I throttle back first,
or even shut down the engine if there is time...
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19822#19822
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: T6s on water |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Those aren't doctored pics. There's also video of it. Have seen pics of
other aircraft doing such also.
Ed in JXN
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: T6s on water
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
>
> I don't know Bob, I'm gonn'a want to check on the truthorfiction site.
> They
> look pretty fake to me. To perfect, if you know what I mean.
>
> Amused in Ohio Ralph
>
> (Snip)
>
> Pat and all,
> Here is a picture of the T6's on water.
>
> Bob Dalton
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
For strength, look at this: http://www,angelfire,com/rpg/ronoy/B-17.png
regards,
Bob N.
a58r@verizon.net
do not rechive
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge failures |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
jimh474(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
> The best fix is to use 1/2 .058 wall aluminum tubing to replace the 5/16
> braces. Do not flatten the attaching ends all the way, leave about an 1/8
> inch opening in the ends of the tube. Add the aluminum angle to the outboard
> rib along with replacing the bow tip tube braces with the 1/2 material and
> place a 062 aluminum web connecting the two bow supports.
>
> All you wizards that don't believe that vibration causes fatigue better take
> a hand full of smart pills.
>
> Jim Hauck
Jim is very right about this. John Hauck recommended these modifications to me
and I have all of these along with the rib streingthening on the wing of my MK-III...
One just needs to look at the design to see that this made a lot of
sense. I also read about some cases of wingtips buzzing at high speeds, its obviously
an area that needed streingthening. All this only added a couple pounds
of weight and I will not have any problems in these areas in the future.
[Mr. Green]
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19832#19832
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
Geez, I've got to take some meds for my peripheral neuropathy! Or
maybe taking my boxing gloves off!
Try this http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/B-17.png
regards,
Bob N.
a58r@verizon.net
do not archive
Message 61
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| Subject: | Catastrophic failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
Zimmerman;
Do you know when your heart is going to have a catastrophic failure?
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Hi Bob,
That worked gooder! Lots of daylight under that vertical stab.
Great pic!
Ed in JXN
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Noyer" <a58r@verizon.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: To cut or not to cut?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
>
> Geez, I've got to take some meds for my peripheral neuropathy! Or
> maybe taking my boxing gloves off!
>
> Try this http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/B-17.png
> regards,
> Bob N.
> a58r@verizon.net
>
> do not archive
Message 63
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| Subject: | Re: T6s on water |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
I think they are real. I have a friend that used to do the same thing in a 172
[Shocked] . Its dangerous, but at that speed the wheels act like skis, it
does not take much contact area on water at 100 knots to generate a lot of lift.
Just fly very smoothly down on a smooth lake, and let a LITTLE bit of weight
on the wheels. Its dangerous, and its hard, but with enough skill it can be
done [Mr. Green] Just look at the guys that water ski with bare feet, if
you go fast enough you dont need skis, almost any surface will do....
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19837#19837
Message 64
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| Subject: | Re: T6s on water |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rick Pearce" <rap@isp.com>
We had a Brezzy that use to do the same thing hydro plane on an area lake.
Since it looked like an ultra light to the gen public, and I was the only
one in the area flying an ultra light. You can guess my surprise when a car
with FAA on its door showed up at my house. Luckly my plane was down with
and eng replacement and I could prove it was not me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 10:13 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: T6s on water
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
> I think they are real. I have a friend that used to do the same thing in
a 172 [Shocked] . Its dangerous, but at that speed the wheels act like
skis, it does not take much contact area on water at 100 knots to generate a
lot of lift. Just fly very smoothly down on a smooth lake, and let a LITTLE
bit of weight on the wheels. Its dangerous, and its hard, but with enough
skill it can be done [Mr. Green] Just look at the guys that water ski
with bare feet, if you go fast enough you dont need skis, almost any surface
will do....
>
> Michael A. Bigelow
>
> --------
> NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have
!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19837#19837
>
>
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: Diagonal LE braces |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
In a message dated 3/5/2006 7:34:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jdm@wideworld.net writes:
add a removable (would have to be to fold and unfold) brace such as a tube
that slides over and locks the leading edge tubes joining the two wings
together as one.
John M,
Hey, that sounds like a very good idea you thought of. Go for it.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 66
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge failures |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Mar 5, 2006, at 8:12 PM, JW Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>
> That still won't solve the problem, as both leading edges would move
> together. The only fix is making sure you have diagonal bracing on
> each
> wing.
Jim,
Let me run my perspective on the issue of Kolb rib failures.
I do not want to minimize the critical importance of the integrity of
the leading edge diagonal bracing to keep the ribs in column or to
get into an argument about what happened to John's wing, but I do
believe there is another scenario of failure that is much more likely
than the conclusion that the leading edge failure was initiated by
failure of the lateral diagonal braces.
Let me point out that properly installed and finished fabric
covering is itself an extremely strong medium resisting lateral
movement of the leading edge UNLESS for some reason it loses its
tension in one dimension or another but especially in the fore and
aft direction.
I submit that initial failure mode of the Kolb leading edge is much
more likely due to the compromise of the curved upper rib tube under
excessive compression load during a high speed, high wing loading
situation. As speed increases center of lift moves forward so that
much more of the load is carried by the front part of the rib. An
increased portion of the load is transferred to the spar by an
increased compression load carried through a tube that by design
and of necessity is already out of column it suddenly buckles and
breaks allowing the leading edge to move back and up into the already
excessive high speed air flow above the wing.
Such sudden failure would of course also destroys all diagonal
braces pulling the leading edge sideways as they fail.
Just picture what would happen to the ribs if a wing were loaded
with sand bags to 4 G all of them ahead of the spar??
In my opinion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, avoid excessive air speed and there
should be no worry about Kolb rib failure.
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: Catastrophic failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Mar 5, 2006, at 11:08 PM, JW Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>
> Zimmerman;
>
> Do you know when your heart is going to have a catastrophic failure?
LOL, no but but it is much more likely for me than for my six month
old grand son.
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