Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:23 AM - Re: Leading edge failures (Kirk Smith)
2. 01:26 AM - Re: Buyer Beware!... (JetPilot)
3. 03:50 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 67 Msgs - 03/05/06 (TRCowan)
4. 05:02 AM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (Jack B. Hart)
5. 05:32 AM - Leading Edge (JW Hauck)
6. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: T6s on water (pat ladd)
7. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Leading edge failures (Ralph)
8. 06:08 AM - Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE (pat ladd)
9. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE (ray anderson)
10. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut / Stress question (pat ladd)
11. 09:02 AM - Flight test to failure (Kirk Smith)
12. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 67 Msgs - 03/05/06 (flht99reh)
13. 09:28 AM - Re: Leading Edge (John Murr)
14. 11:22 AM - Re: Leading Edge (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
15. 11:39 AM - Re: Leading Edge (JetPilot)
16. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Leading Edge (Ed Chmielewski)
17. 12:50 PM - Re: Flight test to failure (Ralph)
18. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 67 Msgs - 03/05/06 (Ralph)
19. 02:01 PM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 67 Msgs - 03/05/06 (Kirk Smith)
20. 03:42 PM - Re: Re: Leading Edge (John Murr)
21. 04:14 PM - BRS 5 Installation on Original Firestar (John Murr)
22. 04:58 PM - Re: Leading Edge (planecrazzzy)
23. 06:38 PM - Re: BRS 5 Installation on Original Firestar (possums)
24. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: Leading Edge (John Murr)
25. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: To cut or not to cut? (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
26. 10:51 PM - Re: Evening Flight (DAquaNut@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge failures |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
"Once these diagonals are no longer attached, under the right conditions, the
leading edge of the wing more than likely shifts to outboard end of the
wing,"
What would cause this shift?
"causing the ribs to get out of column and once this starts the leading
edge folds back and creates an instant spoiler. The wing tip bow will not
keep the ribs in column in the stock configuration. It doesn't make any
difference whether it is a 5 rib or 7 rib wing. Once those diagonals go the
leading edge is free to move at some time. Then again it may not.
The best fix is to use 1/2 .058 wall aluminum tubing to replace the 5/16
braces. Do not flatten the attaching ends all the way, leave about an 1/8
inch opening in the ends of the tube. Add the aluminum angle to the outboard
rib along with replacing the bow tip tube braces with the 1/2 material and
place a 062 aluminum web connecting the two bow supports. "
After removing the 5/16 braces one could test the leading edge for lateral strength.
Would be interesting to see how much strength the fabric lends to lateral
support of the leading edge.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19863#19863
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Buyer Beware!... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
I dont think there is anything wrong with the 5 rib wing, I would fly one if I
owned it !!! Its only when the wing gets to be very high time, or used in aerobatics
that I would start to worry about it. If your plane is not very high
time, or has not been abused, the 5 rib wing should be fine. There are LOTS
of 5 rib wings flying without failure. Only the high time high stress wings
that start to approach the same history of the wing that failed should be cause
for concern.
Having owned general aviation airplanes, you must know that all planes have parts
that fatigue and need to be replaced over time... The difference is the FAA
tracks and mandates these inspections and part replacement on certified aircraft.
On experimental airplanes we have to do this ourselves. One should be
aware and properly maintain any airplane, be it certified or a Kolb, but it
should not scare us away from flying them.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19864#19864
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 67 Msgs - 03/05/06 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: TRCowan <tc1917@direcway.com>
just got to add my two cents in here. What a bunch of 'chicken littles'. I
cant believe it. we have a whole bunch of newbies to the Kolbs and you guys
are scaring the hell out of them. These Kolbs are probably one of the best
designed, best built - even by newbies - than anything out there. The cages
alone are worth the trouble. My friend's life was saved by them. Worry
this, worry that, change this, change that. Poooh. Keep it simple, fly the
darned thing. How do some of you guys even get out of bed in the morning?
I fly solo most of the time and it is bad enough to worry about LZs and get
over the "I'm gonna die" thinking without you guys poluting the air waves
and minds of fine people unnecessarily. I need to remind you that some of
these guys been building theirs for years and have NEVER even flown one!!
Take the info for what it is worth and listen to the ones who KNOW what is
going on. Hawk and the others. I, for one, have a thousand or more hours
on Kolbs and you know what -- I NEVER worry about frame problems cause I
preflight, annual and check what I can. The rest is up to God. Have fun,
forget the worries, and fly the darned thing. The sky is NOT falling. Ted
Cowan, Alabama. p.s. I have built and/or rebuilt 8 kolbs and lots of other
types
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 08:49 AM 3/5/06 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>As far as the ultralight in question, the owner was obviously wondering about
this posibility prior to this discussion, why do you think he asked the question
in the first place? This particular firestar is flown very heavy, and has
been subjected to aerobatics (overloads), is very high time, pretty much the same
scenario that caused another Firestars wing to fail... I just wonder how
you can totally discount the possiblity that it could happen again.
>
>Michael A. Bigelow
>
Michael,
Staying within the Kolb ranks, only two confirmed losses were due to
continued abuse. The plane in question has one documented loop or roll
which may or may not have abused the plane. I believe the Kolb FireFly is an
elegantly simple and robust design, and I picked it to build because I
considered it to be over designed. When you over power, over speed, and
overload there is no reason to expect that the plane will hold together. If
you want complete certainty about your aircraft, keep it in the hangar.
John,
Go fly the plane!
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
Folks,
I agree with Ted Cowan, 2 known catastrophic leading edge failures out of
thousands of Kolb's built and thousands of hours flown in all kinds of
conditions doesn't warrant all this negative attitude towards primarily the
5 rib wing. The 7 rib wing could have the same failure under the right
conditions.
Homer and Dennis always made updates on the design when a problem was
discovered. So many of the updates are already in these A/C that are being
bought from the used market. In two instances this negative attitude has
scared the crap out of two new Kolb owners for no reason.
I suggest the list refrain from making arbitrary statements to new comers
that they are going to have a catastrophic failure if they fly with a 5 rib
wing. This is pure BS.
Any wing regardless of type A/C under the right conditions will fail. Maybe
from age, flying out of the design envelope or just a plain no answer why.
I merely suggested time proven fixes for those that wanted to use them.
In the case of my brothers failure,we examined the wings and this was the
conclusion that we arrived at. The leading edge of the wings shifted
outboard getting the ribs out of column and the leading edge folding up. The
left wing went first and the right wing went second. The right wing more
than likely failed from the instant acceleration forward.
In the future lets put our mind in gear before we put our typing fingers in
motion and not expound on something we only heard of.
I hope that the two new comers reconsider about getting rid of their planes
because of all the BS.
Jim Hauck
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: T6s on water |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Thats the pic. Isn`t that incredible? Thanks Bob
Pat
do not archive
--
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge failures |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
The Original Firestar had a 1.5" .028" leading edge tube with no diagonal bracing
to the 5" spar except for a short 5/16" length near the root. The fabric kept
the nose ribs from moving laterally. I built mine with 1.5" .035" and 3- 3/8"
diagonals in the middle of the wing to the spar.
Ralph
Original Firestar
19 years flying it
-- Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Mar 5, 2006, at 8:12 PM, JW Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>
> That still won't solve the problem, as both leading edges would move
> together. The only fix is making sure you have diagonal bracing on
> each
> wing.
Jim,
Let me run my perspective on the issue of Kolb rib failures.
I do not want to minimize the critical importance of the integrity of
the leading edge diagonal bracing to keep the ribs in column or to
get into an argument about what happened to John's wing, but I do
believe there is another scenario of failure that is much more likely
than the conclusion that the leading edge failure was initiated by
failure of the lateral diagonal braces.
Let me point out that properly installed and finished fabric
covering is itself an extremely strong medium resisting lateral
movement of the leading edge UNLESS for some reason it loses its
tension in one dimension or another but especially in the fore and
aft direction.
I submit that initial failure mode of the Kolb leading edge is much
more likely due to the compromise of the curved upper rib tube under
excessive compression load during a high speed, high wing loading
situation. As speed increases center of lift moves forward so that
much more of the load is carried by the front part of the rib. An
increased portion of the load is transferred to the spar by an
increased compression load carried through a tube that by design
and of necessity is already out of column it suddenly buckles and
breaks allowing the leading edge to move back and up into the already
excessive high speed air flow above the wing.
Such sudden failure would of course also destroys all diagonal
braces pulling the leading edge sideways as they fail.
Just picture what would happen to the ribs if a wing were loaded
with sand bags to 4 G all of them ahead of the spar??
In my opinion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, avoid excessive air speed and there
should be no worry about Kolb rib failure.
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
OK, follow me: bridle=a harness; bridel=marriage. >>
Oh Bob,
such cynicism in one so young!
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
--
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: KEVLAR BRIDLE |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
If possible , place your ignition switch close to the hand you will use to pop
the chute. As close as possible to the chute activating handle. It's extremely
important to kill the engine if at all possible before deploying. I know of two
cases where the chute and harness entangled with a revolving prop. One was
a good friend of mine who did'nt have time to kill the engine. Had a new BRS.
I have a toggle switch mounted close to the throttle and activating handle so
that I can sweep my hand back across the switch handle on it's way to the chute
handle.
JetPilot <orcabonita@hotmail.com> wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot"
Possum wrote:
>
>
> Your bridal may very well go thru your prop
> and I think that is why they switched to kevlar. It will take lickin'
> (even from a warp drive)
> and keep on tickin'.
>
That is something I had not really thought about, but seems very likely [Shocked]
If I ever need to pop the chute I will make sure I throttle back first, or
even shut down the engine if there is time...
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19822#19822
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Lift Strut / Stress question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
I will have one of the faster MK-III's built, with the 912-S, the very
efficient Kiev Hot prop, and wheel pants it
Hi Mike,
what would that speed be in the US? Here, with a Jabiru the Xtra is
placarded at 95 pmh.
Pat
do not archive
--
Message 11
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| Subject: | Flight test to failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Here's an excerpt from a letter I recieved from the original Kolb Co. Inc. several
years ago on testing an Ultrastar to destruction.
"The Ultrastar was the immediate predecessor ot the Firestar, the two ultralights
share the same wing. The only difference is that the drag strut is positioned
in the firestar at a more favorable angle, making it a little stronger than
the ultrastar wing in resisting drag loads. Since the wing of the firestar
is at least as strong as the Ultrastar, the flight test to substantiate the G-load
rating for the Ultrastar is valid for the firestar as well. The test Ultrastar
was equiped with two recording G meters for measuring the G-load rating."
" To obtain 5 1/2 G's required a full power dive at approximately a 40 degree
angle below the horizon. The 5-1/2 G's was of much longer duration than typical
loops performed at 4-1/2 G's. Incidentally, this 90 mph dive and 5-1/2 G pullout
was an exciting ride even for one accustomed to performing ultralight aerobatics.
At this point, we felt that the ultrastar had been well proven to be as strong
as anything in it's class would ever be required to be. There is just no way
that any pilot would ever accidentally get into such a high speed dive situation
( to which would have be added an abrupt pull out) to get into such a high
G-loading situation. But it was decided to do one more test to 95 mph. An abrupt
and sustained pullout at this speed resulted in structural failure of the
left wing; the drag strut failed and the wing folded back alongside the fuselage."
Happily the pilot and plane safely parachuted to ground.
Kolb company rebuilt the plane and strengthened the wing even more and the improvements
were passed on to ultrastars, firestars and twinstars.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19920#19920
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 67 Msgs - 03/05/06 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
Ted, you read my heart. I am one of the new guys. And I have to tell you, at
times "ignorance is bliss"! Now with that said, I have to add that we don't
have the lux. To pull of the side of the road if something happens. But then
I knew a health nut that was a major international runner. He died walking
across the street.Wasn't hit , just fell dead, heart exploded. I wanna have
fun and enjoy life as much as possible. I leave the major projects to God
and I handle the little ones; taking out the trash, fixing dinner, mowing
the lawn, preflight checks, etc. Speaking about mowing, you know that an
unbalanced mower blade traveling at 1,200 fpm circumferentially could come
loose and kill your neighbor.
Now how many of you are going to quit mowing your lawn? How many of you
would love to fly rather than mow their lawn? How many of you would love to
have your lawns mowed by someone else why they fly over their lawn /landing
strip?
Someone in the beginning of the Kolb site early pages said something to the
tune of: if you have a fear of flying to that degree (forget the reason of
that response), then maybe something is telling you not to fly. A man could
very easily decide after reading the Kolb web site from beginning to date
that perhaps flying IS DANGERIOUS. I'll take my chances as long as I look at
the dangers from a practical standpoint. When I purchased my Firestar one of
the first things a did was read everything I could get my hands on and take
every woird as gospel. Over the last eight months I have learned that there
are voices that speak from advice and voices that speak from fear. I read
and listen mostly to the voices of advice, and test them often. Usually they
have proven themselves to be true.
Looking death in the face everyday Ohio Ralph
--> Kolb-List message posted by: TRCowan <tc1917@direcway.com>
just got to add my two cents in here. What a bunch of 'chicken littles'. I
cant believe it. we have a whole bunch of newbies to the Kolbs and you guys
are scaring the hell out of them. These Kolbs are probably one of the best
designed, best built - even by newbies - than anything out there. The cages
alone are worth the trouble. My friend's life was saved by them. Worry
this, worry that, change this, change that. Poooh. Keep it simple, fly the
darned thing. How do some of you guys even get out of bed in the morning?
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
I just came from the airport where I looked my plane over. I ended up
pouring gas on it and burning it!
Just kidding! My plane was meticulously cared for and it shows. I'm not
discouraged and I'm not going to sell. If I had more time I would have
flown it today! The weather is beautiful in the East today! The loop noted
in the log book was at 34 hours in 1989. At 900 hours today, that was a
long time ago and I'm not concerned.
I do appreciate everyone's input. I'm not an engineer so I'm not going to
play one. I'm going to change nothing except my awareness while I'm flying
and maintaining her!
It has given us all something to think about. Flying safe!
----- Original Message -----
From: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:28 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Leading Edge
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>
> Folks,
>
> I agree with Ted Cowan, 2 known catastrophic leading edge failures out of
> thousands of Kolb's built and thousands of hours flown in all kinds of
> conditions doesn't warrant all this negative attitude towards primarily
> the
> 5 rib wing. The 7 rib wing could have the same failure under the right
> conditions.
>
> Homer and Dennis always made updates on the design when a problem was
> discovered. So many of the updates are already in these A/C that are being
> bought from the used market. In two instances this negative attitude has
> scared the crap out of two new Kolb owners for no reason.
>
> I suggest the list refrain from making arbitrary statements to new comers
> that they are going to have a catastrophic failure if they fly with a 5
> rib
> wing. This is pure BS.
>
> Any wing regardless of type A/C under the right conditions will fail.
> Maybe
> from age, flying out of the design envelope or just a plain no answer why.
>
> I merely suggested time proven fixes for those that wanted to use them.
>
> In the case of my brothers failure,we examined the wings and this was the
> conclusion that we arrived at. The leading edge of the wings shifted
> outboard getting the ribs out of column and the leading edge folding up.
> The
> left wing went first and the right wing went second. The right wing more
> than likely failed from the instant acceleration forward.
>
> In the future lets put our mind in gear before we put our typing fingers
> in
> motion and not expound on something we only heard of.
>
> I hope that the two new comers reconsider about getting rid of their
> planes
> because of all the BS.
>
> Jim Hauck
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
John Murr wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
>
> I just came from the airport where I looked my plane over. I ended up
> pouring gas on it and burning it!
>
>
>
> Just kidding! My plane was meticulously cared for and it shows. I'm not
> discouraged and I'm not going to sell. If I had more time I would have
> flown it today! The weather is beautiful in the East today! The loop noted
> in the log book was at 34 hours in 1989. At 900 hours today, that was a
> long time ago and I'm not concerned.
Your the MAN John! It's supposed to be in the 70's this weekend. Lets go
fly! ~ Earl
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
jimh474(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
> In two instances this negative attitude has
> scared the crap out of two new Kolb owners for no reason.
>
> I suggest the list refrain from making arbitrary statements to new comers
> that they are going to have a catastrophic failure if they fly with a 5 rib
> wing. This is pure BS.
>
>
I dont think anyone made arbitrary statements about the 5 rib wing. In all my
posts about it, I was very clear in telling the person that posted the question
that this was a High Time, High stress issue. I think in the case of JDM I
think he should be worried. Maybe at least this discussion will inspire him to
install his BRS chute :) . If peope with low time average use firestars are
getting scared because we are talking about this here, then they need to pay
more attention to the details in the posts and educate themselves about fatigue.
Almost every plane in the world has fatigue and failures associated with high time
airframes, including Kolbs. We should post factual information that may save
someone from getting hurt one day, which I think was done. We should not
be afraid to talk about this kind of stuff just because a few fail to understand
the difference between high time fatigue and a low time safe to fly airplane.
I for one learn a huge amount on this list, and I hope people continue to
post all known problems so that I can correct these things before they bite me.
That is exactly what this list is for.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19953#19953
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Mike,
You can't have it both ways. I also took your posts as alarmist in
nature. Perhaps you should re-read before posting, with a more critical eye
towards the tone of your comments. Better yet, if you've no experience with
limit-load fatigue with Kolb aircraft, then refrain from broad, generalized
comments that might be misunderstood.
Ed in jXN
MkII/503
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Leading Edge
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
>
> jimh474(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> In two instances this negative attitude has
>> scared the crap out of two new Kolb owners for no reason.
>>
>> I suggest the list refrain from making arbitrary statements to new comers
>> that they are going to have a catastrophic failure if they fly with a 5
>> rib
>> wing. This is pure BS.
>>
>>
>
>
> I dont think anyone made arbitrary statements about the 5 rib wing. In
> all my posts about it, I was very clear in telling the person that posted
> the question that this was a High Time, High stress issue. I think in the
> case of JDM I think he should be worried. Maybe at least this discussion
> will inspire him to install his BRS chute :) . If peope with low time
> average use firestars are getting scared because we are talking about this
> here, then they need to pay more attention to the details in the posts and
> educate themselves about fatigue.
>
> Almost every plane in the world has fatigue and failures associated with
> high time airframes, including Kolbs. We should post factual information
> that may save someone from getting hurt one day, which I think was done.
> We should not be afraid to talk about this kind of stuff just because a
> few fail to understand the difference between high time fatigue and a low
> time safe to fly airplane. I for one learn a huge amount on this list,
> and I hope people continue to post all known problems so that I can
> correct these things before they bite me. That is exactly what this list
> is for.
>
> Michael A. Bigelow
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flight test to failure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
-- "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
"Happily the pilot and plane safely parachuted to ground.
Kolb company rebuilt the plane and strengthened the wing even more and the improvements
were passed on to ultrastars, firestars and twinstars."
That pilot happened to be Dennis Souder President of Kolb Aircraft at the time.
Ralph
Original Firestar
19 years flying it
Here's an excerpt from a letter I recieved from the original Kolb Co. Inc. several
years ago on testing an Ultrastar to destruction.
"The Ultrastar was the immediate predecessor ot the Firestar, the two ultralights
share the same wing. The only difference is that the drag strut is positioned
in the firestar at a more favorable angle, making it a little stronger than
the ultrastar wing in resisting drag loads. Since the wing of the firestar
is at least as strong as the Ultrastar, the flight test to substantiate the G-load
rating for the Ultrastar is valid for the firestar as well. The test Ultrastar
was equiped with two recording G meters for measuring the G-load rating."
" To obtain 5 1/2 G's required a full power dive at approximately a 40 degree
angle below the horizon. The 5-1/2 G's was of much longer duration than typical
loops performed at 4-1/2 G's. Incidentally, this 90 mph dive and 5-1/2 G pullout
was an exciting ride even for one accustomed to performing ultralight aerobatics.
At this point, we felt that the ultrastar had been well proven to be as strong
as anything in it's class would ever be required to be. There is just no way
that any pilot would ever accidentally get into such a high speed dive situation
( to which would have be added an abrupt pull out) to get into such a high
G-loading situation. But it was decided to do one more test to 95 mph. An abrupt
and sustained pullout at this speed resulted in structural failure of the
left wing; the drag strut failed and the wing folded back alongside the fuselage."
Happily the pilot and plane safely parachuted to ground.
Kolb company rebuilt the plane and strengthened the wing even more and the improvements
were passed on to ultrastars, firestars and twinstars.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19920#19920
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 67 Msgs - 03/05/06 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
People die everyday on the highways around the country. After learning about one
on the news, we still get in our cars and drive without fear which means that
fear is a mindset.
Ralph
Original Firestar
19 years flying it
-- "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "flht99reh" <flht99reh@netzero.net>
"Someone in the beginning of the Kolb site early pages said something to the tune
of: if you have a fear of flying to that degree (forget the reason of that
response), then maybe something is telling you not to fly. A man could very easily
decide after reading the Kolb web site from beginning to date that perhaps
flying IS DANGERIOUS. I'll take my chances as long as I look at the dangers
from a practical standpoint. When I purchased my Firestar one of the first things
a did was read everything I could get my hands on and take every woird as
gospel. Over the last eight months I have learned that there are voices that speak
from advice and voices that speak from fear. I read and listen mostly to
the voices of advice, and test them often. Usually they
have proven themselves to be true. Looking death in the face everyday Ohio Ralph"
Ted, you read my heart. I am one of the new guys. And I have to tell you, at
times "ignorance is bliss"! Now with that said, I have to add that we don't
have the lux. To pull of the side of the road if something happens. But then
I knew a health nut that was a major international runner. He died walking
across the street.Wasn't hit , just fell dead, heart exploded. I wanna have
fun and enjoy life as much as possible. I leave the major projects to God
and I handle the little ones; taking out the trash, fixing dinner, mowing
the lawn, preflight checks, etc. Speaking about mowing, you know that an
unbalanced mower blade traveling at 1,200 fpm circumferentially could come
loose and kill your neighbor.
Now how many of you are going to quit mowing your lawn? How many of you
would love to fly rather than mow their lawn? How many of you would love to
have your lawns mowed by someone else why they fly over their lawn /landing
strip?
Someone in the beginning of the Kolb site early pages said something to the
tune of: if you have a fear of flying to that degree (forget the reason of
that response), then maybe something is telling you not to fly. A man could
very easily decide after reading the Kolb web site from beginning to date
that perhaps flying IS DANGERIOUS. I'll take my chances as long as I look at
the dangers from a practical standpoint. When I purchased my Firestar one of
the first things a did was read everything I could get my hands on and take
every woird as gospel. Over the last eight months I have learned that there
are voices that speak from advice and voices that speak from fear. I read
and listen mostly to the voices of advice, and test them often. Usually they
have proven themselves to be true.
Looking death in the face everyday Ohio Ralph
--> Kolb-List message posted by: TRCowan <tc1917@direcway.com>
just got to add my two cents in here. What a bunch of 'chicken littles'. I
cant believe it. we have a whole bunch of newbies to the Kolbs and you guys
are scaring the hell out of them. These Kolbs are probably one of the best
designed, best built - even by newbies - than anything out there. The cages
alone are worth the trouble. My friend's life was saved by them. Worry
this, worry that, change this, change that. Poooh. Keep it simple, fly the
darned thing. How do some of you guys even get out of bed in the morning?
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 67 Msgs - 03/05/06 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>From Matts list guidelines
"Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing"
Below is the type of post that he's referring to.
just got to add my two cents in here. What a bunch of 'chicken littles'.you guys
poluting the air waves
and minds of fine people unnecessarily. I need to remind you that some of
these guys been building theirs for years and have NEVER even flown one!!
Take the info for what it is worth and listen to the ones who KNOW what is
going on. Hawk and the others. I, for one, have a thousand or more hours
on Kolbs and you know what --. I have built and/or rebuilt 8 kolbs and lots of
other
types
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19970#19970
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
I am going to put the BRS on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Leading Edge
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>
>
> jimh474(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> In two instances this negative attitude has
>> scared the crap out of two new Kolb owners for no reason.
>>
>> I suggest the list refrain from making arbitrary statements to new comers
>> that they are going to have a catastrophic failure if they fly with a 5
>> rib
>> wing. This is pure BS.
>>
>>
>
>
> I dont think anyone made arbitrary statements about the 5 rib wing. In
> all my posts about it, I was very clear in telling the person that posted
> the question that this was a High Time, High stress issue. I think in the
> case of JDM I think he should be worried. Maybe at least this discussion
> will inspire him to install his BRS chute :) . If peope with low time
> average use firestars are getting scared because we are talking about this
> here, then they need to pay more attention to the details in the posts and
> educate themselves about fatigue.
>
> Almost every plane in the world has fatigue and failures associated with
> high time airframes, including Kolbs. We should post factual information
> that may save someone from getting hurt one day, which I think was done.
> We should not be afraid to talk about this kind of stuff just because a
> few fail to understand the difference between high time fatigue and a low
> time safe to fly airplane. I for one learn a huge amount on this list,
> and I hope people continue to post all known problems so that I can
> correct these things before they bite me. That is exactly what this list
> is for.
>
> Michael A. Bigelow
>
> --------
> NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have
> !!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19953#19953
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | BRS 5 Installation on Original Firestar |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
OK, now that you've got my attention, where is the best place to but the BRS 5
750 canister? I had a BRS 4 500 inside the cage under the tank. I took it out
because the BRS was 12 years out of date and not big enough for the fat airplane
and pilot. Unfortunately the larger canister won't fit inside the cage, which
is why it is on the shelf in the hanger.
I've seen them in front of the engine and I've seen them on the landing gear.
I don't particularly like either. Any suggestions? Pictures?
Perhaps the flat pack for on top of or under the gap seal? If so I need to sell
my current BRS. It's only a year old and has never been registered, so it is
considered new. I think they are good for ten years, but I don't have the manual
here at home.
Thank you in advance.
John Murr
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
OK , You looked your plane over......What about the "LIFT STRUT"
was there a chromemoly tube running the whole lenght.....
Or do you have Holes drilled in your main support....?
Gotta Fly...
--------
The more people I know....
The more I like MY DOG
.
.
.
.
.Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19985#19985
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: BRS 5 Installation on Original Firestar |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 07:14 PM 3/6/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
>
>OK, now that you've got my attention, where is the best place to but
>the BRS 5 750 canister?
I put mine here:
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/BRSsys.jpg
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Rubberduckanten.jpg
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Rubberduckanten.jpg
But ask BRS - they know the plane real well.
Just remember, no matter which way you fire it
(up, back and down under the tail or sideways)- it will end up
directly behind the plane when it opens.
Hopefully it will come up over the top after it opens.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Leading Edge |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
It's a chromemoly tube with a sleeve over it. The tube runs between the
two. No holes in the lift strut.
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> OK , You looked your plane over......What about the "LIFT STRUT"
>
> was there a chromemoly tube running the whole lenght.....
>
> Or do you have Holes drilled in your main support....?
>
> Gotta Fly...
>
> --------
> The more people I know....
> The more I like MY DOG
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19985#19985
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: To cut or not to cut? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
In a message dated 3/5/2006 7:57:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jdm@wideworld.net writes:
All you need is a radio to fly into class D airspace.
John M,
I don't have a radio.
Yet.
Maybe in the future
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Evening Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
Kolbers
Flew my first cross country today to an airport 17.3 miles away. Not
much of a cross country but it is a start. The Firefly burned about 3.2 gal
and took about 40 minutes ,to make the round trip. The weather is warm enough
down here that the mosquitos are starting to be a pest. I am still glad I
decided to build a KOLB. I think I saw 80 mph once when I was not keeping an eye
on the airspeed. The really good part is my leading edge did not fail on
either wing. I have the fold up time down to 15 minutes! Starting to trust Her
a little more each time I fly Her!
Ed Diebel ( In Houston Firefly # 62 , 6.5 hrs.)
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