Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - plans (ron wehba)
2. 04:05 AM - MKIII Landing Eureka Lodge, Alaska (skyrider2)
3. 04:16 AM - New to the List (Len du Preez)
4. 05:08 AM - Re: BMW R100 - Update (Eugene Zimmerman)
5. 12:15 PM - Heavy Xtra :-( (David Key)
6. 12:37 PM - Re: Heavy Xtra :-( (robert bean)
7. 12:48 PM - Re: BMW R100 - Update (Chris Mallory)
8. 02:17 PM - Re: MKIII Landing Eureka Lodge, Alaska (Robert Laird)
9. 03:21 PM - Re: Heavy Xtra :-( (Steve Spence)
10. 04:37 PM - Re: Heavy Xtra :-( (David Key)
11. 04:43 PM - Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (possums)
12. 05:01 PM - Re: Heavy Xtra :-( (Robert Mason)
13. 05:27 PM - Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (Jack B. Hart)
14. 05:37 PM - Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (John Jung)
15. 06:06 PM - Re: Heavy Xtra :-( (David Key)
16. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (Chris Mallory)
17. 06:59 PM - Re: Heavy Xtra :-( (Eugene Zimmerman)
18. 07:00 PM - Re: Heavy Xtra :-( (bill_joe)
19. 07:41 PM - Re: Heavy Xtra :-( (David Key)
20. 08:23 PM - Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (John Jung)
21. 11:00 PM - Re: Heavy Xtra :-( (JetPilot)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@pegasusbb.com>
the two persons who was wanting a copy of ultrastar plans and manual no longer
need them, if anyone wants them, email me at rwehba@pegasusbb.com or rwehba@cebridge.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | MKIII Landing Eureka Lodge, Alaska |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "skyrider2" <skyrider2@earthlink.net>
Robert,
Thanks for converting the file of John's approach and landing to the .wmv.
Just curious, what video manipulation software did you use? I'm in the
market to upgrade mine and would like something effective yet simple to use.
Thanks in advance,
Doug Lawton
NE Georgia & Whitwell TN
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za>
Hi
I just joined the list, I am currently thinking of buying either the Kolbra
or Firestar kits. I live in South Africa and do not have any physical
reference or example to base my decision on. Can you guys help with giving
your views on the two planes? The pros the cons and your building
experiences.photos directly to me are welcome.send to len@i5t.co.za
Kind regards
Len du Preez
083 453 7806
len@I5T.co.za
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: BMW R100 - Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Hans,
No apologies necessary!!!
Thanks much for sharing your BMW experience and info.
You have done a GREAT job on that Mark III Extra and R-100!!!
You should be proud of the Web site too.
One question,,,,,,,, Did you make your own adaptor for the E box or
is one available commercially?
Again, Thanks for sharing your experience with the BMW.
On Mar 13, 2006, at 11:19 PM, Hans van Alphen wrote:
> Have not had much time to update my website, nothing fancy but try
> it for
> more info., pictures and links.
> www.home.bellsouth.net/personalpages/PWP-BMWflyer
> and article in Experimenter, February 2004
> My apologies for this longwinded update....
>
> Hans van Alphen
> Jupiter, Florida
> N100MX
> BMW_flyer@bellsouth.net
>
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs less
usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm less
than excited about this.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Xtra :-( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
When you go to a restaurant simply leave after the soup and salad.
Problem solved.
Seriously, I wonder what they left out to accomplish the savings?
-BB do not archive
On 14, Mar 2006, at 3:11 PM, David Key wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs
> less
> usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm
> less
> than excited about this.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: BMW R100 - Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" <wcm@tampabay.rr.com>
Hans,
Do you know of a BMW installation on a Firestar II?
Chris Mallory
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans van Alphen" <BMW_flyer@bellsouth.net>
Cc: "Hans van Alphen" <HVA1@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 11:19 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: BMW R100 - Update
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Hans van Alphen"
> <BMW_flyer@bellsouth.net>
>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>> Time: 04:34:47 PM PST US
>>> From: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Kolb-List: Beemer
>>>
>>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JW Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Folks;
>>> Reading the article about the Beemer, Wonder why they change the
>>> camshaft
>>> to
>>> a reverse camshaft when it would be a bunch cheaper to have a prop built
>>> for
>>> tractor configuration.
>>> Only thing I can think of is the Beemer turns the wrong direction for
>>> the
>>> gear box.
>>> Wonder which way that sucker turns?
>>> Jim Hauck
>>>
> To Jim and all Kolb listers interested in the BMW conversion.
>
> Received emails this weekend that my BMW flying machine was a topic of
> discussion on the list lately and I felt it necessary to update everyone
> and
> correct some misunderstandings about the BMW.
> As some of you know I started flying the BMW in 2001 and I have over 200
> hours on it. It really has been quite boring the last few years as I have
> had no problems with the BMW. It always starts and never misses a beat.
> It has been very cheap to operate and it only burns 3 gallons per hour. I
> made a mistake and changed sparkplugs when it wasn't needed and created an
> intermittent miss, it turned out to be a bad plug (brand new)
> I purchased the BMW R100 boxer engine for $950.- from a wrecked bike, it
> had
> a scraped valve cover, but the bike was totaled.
> I played with the engine on a stand for a few months before I decided to
> put
> it on an airplane. I purchased one of the first Mark III extra's (#14) at
> Sun-N-Fun, after a test flight with Norm Labhart, Bless his soul....
> Just before his passing we had planned to do a picture shoot and video an
> alternative engines for the Kolb.
> My Xtra is the original "heavy" version. My empty weight is 625 pounds.
> I think I was the first one to fly a BMW in the States, I thought I was a
> pioneer until I found out that in 1997 another Dutchman by the name of
> Adrien van Loenen flew a BMW on a trike in Kingston, Ontario, Canada.
> Apparently he used a belt reduction drive on his but I really don't have
> any
> further info on his project.
> Then I found out that there were several BMW's flying in Europe, e.g. UK,
> Holland, France, South Africa and Australia. Some as pusher and some in
> the
> tractor configuration, which brings me to the question Jim had on why a
> reverse mirror camshaft ?
> The only time you need a reverse camshaft is in a tractor situation, the
> BMW
> MUST be installed in the same position as in the bike or it will NOT cool
> properly, many people have tried and failed miserably. That was one reason
> I
> wanted a pusher so I could use the BMW without modifications. Looking at
> the
> prop from the back it turns clockwise with the Rotax C gearbox installed.
> I tried a centrifugal clutch RK400 , it failed three times and got rid of
> it
> and instead used a heavier flywheel. K.I.S.S.
> I tried an oilcooler and one of the brackets broke shortly and replaced it
> with cooling fins from a car amplifier bolted to the bottom of the oilpan,
> it works fine. K.I.S.S. (see pictures on my website)
> I dual plugged the engine as is quite common on the bikes, it starts
> easier,
> runs smoother and has a few more HP.
> I estimate my power to be slightly more than the Rotax 582, about 70 hp.
> Also dual ignition.
> I agree with John Hauck on the placement of the Bing carbs just as they
> are
> on the bike. K.I.S.S , also no problem with carb icing. I think Tim was
> trying to get more air into the carbs but that really does not work. You
> need a turbo for that. I did notice that I get more power without a carb
> filter. So it is important to use a filter as open or less restrictive as
> possible, just like your exhaust. The engine is just a big airpump and
> runs
> most efficient without restrictions.
> Jim Gerken had a great idea to add small aluminum brackets to the front of
> the carbs to stop a lot of vibration and save the carb sockets, yes I have
> had a carb come loose....
> I use the in-flight adjustable IVO prop, very smooth, not as efficient as
> my
> PowerFin, but the in-flight adjustment makes more than up for it.
> There are 4 other BMW's out there that I know of ; Jim Gerken, Tim
> Warlick,
> Robert Walden and Jason Omelchuck
> The "Firestar" on the www.DaytonUlClub.org site is my Mark III Extra.
> The BMW R100 is an excellent real alternative engine , it is cheap,
> reliable, bulletproof, but not for everyone as it is not an out of the box
> bolt it on engine, you must be mechanically inclined to do the conversion
> or
> get help.
> My total cost including the Rotax C gearbox ($1350.-) was about $3,000.-
> plus my labor.....
> One of my neighbors has an Aircam with twin 912's and I think they are
> great
> engines and I love to go flying with him.
> Have not had much time to update my website, nothing fancy but try it for
> more info., pictures and links.
> www.home.bellsouth.net/personalpages/PWP-BMWflyer
> and article in Experimenter, February 2004
> My apologies for this longwinded update....
>
> Hans van Alphen
> Jupiter, Florida
> N100MX
> BMW_flyer@bellsouth.net
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: MKIII Landing Eureka Lodge, Alaska |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
FYI: I sent a long reply to Doug, but it's so off-topic that I didn't want
to muddy to waters, here. If anyone wants me to send the info to them, just
send me a personal email to rlaird@cavediver.com.
-- Robert
do not archive
On 3/14/06, skyrider2 <skyrider2@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "skyrider2" <skyrider2@earthlink.net>
>
> Robert,
>
> Thanks for converting the file of John's approach and landing to the .wmv.
> Just curious, what video manipulation software did you use? I'm in the
> market to upgrade mine and would like something effective yet simple to
> use.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Doug Lawton
> NE Georgia & Whitwell TN
>
> Do Not Archive
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Xtra :-( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Steve Spence" <sspence801@sbcglobal.net>
David:
I have a heavy Xtra as well, and glad I do. The early versions of the
Xtra do weigh more due to additional chrome molly in the cage. The dual
controls came standard as did flaps. I believe that the early (#s1-23) are
stronger and better. Be happy with your good fortune to get an early one.
Steve Spence
Mk3Xtra 912-S
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Heavy Xtra :-(
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs
> less
> usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm less
> than excited about this.
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Xtra :-( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
I have serial number 1.
Do you have pics of yours?
Thanks,
David
>From: "Steve Spence" <sspence801@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Heavy Xtra :-(
>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:18:45 -0500
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Steve Spence" <sspence801@sbcglobal.net>
>
>David:
>
> I have a heavy Xtra as well, and glad I do. The early versions of the
>Xtra do weigh more due to additional chrome molly in the cage. The dual
>controls came standard as did flaps. I believe that the early (#s1-23) are
>stronger and better. Be happy with your good fortune to get an early one.
>
>Steve Spence
>Mk3Xtra 912-S
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 3:11 PM
>Subject: Kolb-List: Heavy Xtra :-(
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
> >
> > Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs
> > less
> > usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm
>less
> > than excited about this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
So where did you stick the VGs on the wings?
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
>
>Group,
>
>This afternoon, I just took my first flight with 102 LandShorter
>VG's on my Firestar II. It sure is different! It used to stall with
>a somewhat clean break at 38 to 40 mph. I had it down to 30 mph with
>no actual break. It was sinking at 500 ft/min at 30 mph and it sort
>of rocked from side to side, but the nose never dropped. It was a
>thermally afternoon, so I will get better information on future
>flights. The one landing was a little surprising. I sort of expected
>it to float down the runway, but it settled gently at 38 mph.
>
>--------
>John Jung
>Firestar II N6163J
>Surprise, AZ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21607#21607
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Xtra :-( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs less
> usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm less
> than excited about this.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> David,
I just did my WB last week, came in at 570lbs, was a little surprised, what
was your empty weight?
Robert Mason
M3X 582
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 04:54 PM 3/13/06 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
>
>Group,
>
>This afternoon, I just took my first flight with 102 LandShorter VG's on my Firestar
II. It sure is different! It used to stall with a somewhat clean break
at 38 to 40 mph. I had it down to 30 mph with no actual break. It was sinking
at 500 ft/min at 30 mph and it sort of rocked from side to side, but the nose
never dropped. It was a thermally afternoon, so I will get better information
on future flights. The one landing was a little surprising. I sort of expected
it to float down the runway, but it settled gently at 38 mph.
>
>--------
>John Jung
>Firestar II N6163J
>Surprise, AZ
>
John,
I believe we have another believer in the making.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
Possum wrote:
> So where did you stick the VGs on the wings?
I placed them 2.75 inches apart and 8 inches back from the leading edge.
--------
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21837#21837
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Xtra :-( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
Robert, I'm not there yet, I'm at the part where I try to figure out what
I'm going to do with 80 extra pounds that do nothing except decrease climb
rate and decrease useful load and increase take off roll and increase
landing roll. Maybe someone with a light xtra can throw in an 80lb sand bag,
wait they don't make sand bags that heavy, well grab a couple and tell me
what performance I can expect. Instead of flying like I'm 180 it will fly
like I weigh 260. Im one of those guys that doesnt like the BRSs because
I dont want to give up the 20lbs every time I fly, shoot at least that
20lbs might save my life this 80lbs does nothing for me and I'll have it
EVERY TIME I FLY!
A month or so ago, I ask the list if there were different versions because I
had heard there might be. I got answers that the stabs were different; no
one mentioned the 80lb difference. I found out today that I should of ask
the Kolb company, my bad.
Im done venting. Ive ask the Kolb company for the numbers to the plane
Ive bought. This is probably one of those times where I should keep my
mouth shut.
From: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Heavy Xtra :-(
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
> >
> > Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs
>less
> > usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm
>less
> > than excited about this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David,
>
>I just did my WB last week, came in at 570lbs, was a little surprised, what
>was your empty weight?
>
>Robert Mason
>M3X 582
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" <wcm@tampabay.rr.com>
John,
How did you arrive at the distance aft of the leading edge?
Chris Mallory
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Possum wrote:
>> So where did you stick the VGs on the wings?
>
>
> I placed them 2.75 inches apart and 8 inches back from the leading edge.
>
> --------
> John Jung
> Firestar II N6163J
> Surprise, AZ
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21837#21837
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Xtra :-( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Mar 14, 2006, at 9:04 PM, David Key wrote:
> Robert, I'm not there yet, I'm at the part where I try to figure
> out what
> I'm going to do with 80 extra pounds that do nothing except
> decrease climb
> rate and decrease useful load and increase take off roll and increase
> landing roll.
David,
If you have flaps instead of the flaprons, you also have more total
wing area.
You will NOT have an increased take off roll or landing roll but
shorter.
As you said, ,,,,,,,, You are not there yet!
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Xtra :-( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bill_joe" <bill_joe@bellsouth.net>
Robert, I think I have number 007. I have added a few extra items to
mine . And built it a little heavy. My empty is 630 lbs. I would not even
think of trading it for one of the light ones. My opinion.
Do not archive
Bill Futrell Mk111 912 and happy with it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mason" <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Heavy Xtra :-(
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>>
>> Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs
>> less
>> usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm
>> less
>> than excited about this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David,
>
> I just did my WB last week, came in at 570lbs, was a little surprised,
> what
> was your empty weight?
>
> Robert Mason
> M3X 582
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Xtra :-( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
I have flaperons. Tell me where I lost you? Do you agree that more weight is
more take off roll? Do you agree that more weight is more landing roll? Do
you agree that more weight is less climb? Do you agree that more weight is
less useful load? If you said yes to all four we are in agreement and we are
both not there yet.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com wrote:
> John,
> How did you arrive at the distance aft of the leading edge?
>
> Chris Mallory
>
> do not archive
> ---
The distance is a compromise. Not as far forward as LandShorter recommends, and
not as far back as the flashing type that are common on Kolbs. I'll get some
good data after I fly in smooth air, but for now it looks promising.
--------
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21859#21859
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Xtra :-( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
dhkey(at)msn.com wrote:
>
>
> Im one of those guys that doesnt like the BRSs because
> I dont want to give up the 20lbs every time I fly, shoot at least that
> 20lbs might save my life this 80lbs does nothing for me and I'll have it
> EVERY TIME I FLY!
>
>
Your reasoning on the 20 pounds is just plain wrong. A BRS is much more likely
to save your life than to cause any type of problem... From the sound of your
post, it seems that you are obsessing about weight to the point of ignoring
all else. Obsessing on one item is always bad, everything is a trade off. Having
a plane that is stronger might be worth the extra weight.
The most likely accident scenario is that your engine will quit, at which point
you will be comming down weather your plane is heavy or light. At that point
the more heavily built cage might be a good thing. The MK-III is a pretty big
plane with lots of power, 80 pounds is about 13% extra and wont kill the performance.
More important than the weight is how well it is built, covered, etc...
If its a nice plane with quality workmanship, dont sweat the weight issue
to much.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21870#21870
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