---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/17/06: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:49 AM - Re: Hoover video... (Thom Riddle) 2. 06:34 AM - Re: Kolb Mark lll for sale, (DC8man2@aol.com) 3. 12:20 PM - Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (John Jung) 4. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (Aaron Gustafson) 5. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (Chris Mallory) 6. 01:59 PM - Re: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (Chris Mallory) 7. 04:31 PM - Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (John Jung) 8. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:18 AM PST US From: Thom Riddle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hoover video... --> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle Great Video! My Mac runs the video without a hitch. I'm guessing the line break in the url is the error. BTW, you guys with Gatesware, must think that ALL computers have to be rebooted every day to keep from or hanging up regularly or crashing. I've had my Mac for about 17 months. I've only had to reboot after installing new software, never hung up once, and runs 95% of the applications worth having. Not trying to start a war but the "get a real computer" comment needed addressing. I have both types of computer, but only because my old MicroCrap still works, between crashes and hangups. Its replacement with be a Mac notebook. Thom in Buffalo ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:15 AM PST US From: DC8man2@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb Mark lll for sale, CC: DC8man2@aol.com, RaGeX44@aol.com --> Kolb-List message posted by: DC8man2@aol.com I have to part with a great little Kolb Mk lll with a Rotax 912 engine. 242 hours TT. This plane was built in 2000 and has always been kept indoors. I have a enclosed trailer for it that acts as it's hangar. This trailer has saved me almost the price of the plane over the years I have owned it. The plane fly's great, looks great too. If any one wants more details and pictures Please E-mail me off list at _DC8man2@aol.com_ (mailto:DC8man2@aol.com) . The price is negotiable but am only looking for about $23,900 Thanks. Bill ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:35 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II From: "John Jung" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" Group, This morning, I got a chance to fly in calm air, and really test the LandShorter VG's on my Firestar II. Wow! Call me a believer. This was the most sigificant change that I have made to my Firestar by a long shot. I was one that found the VG reports by others a little hard to believe. I thought that they had to be exagerating some. No more. My Firestar II now has a 10 mph lower stall speed. That's 40 mph indicateed down to 30 mph indicated. But that is only for starters: The stall, before, was sharp enough to bend the aluminum gear by flairing too soon and stalling just 10 feet over the runway. Now the stall is almost none existant. The break can be felt, it's eazy to notice, but the nose hardly drops and the wing starts flying again with no input from me. I did full power stalls, cruise power stalls, and power at idle stalls. All were at 30 mph and with similar results. Possum said to take steep turns at 30 mph. I'm not ready to try that, but I did try steep turns at 40 mph. Amazing! My Firestar did a good imitation of a glider. It held altitude in a steep turn with only about 100 rpm more than it took to hold altitude on the level. And that brings up the next change: I needed about 400 rpm less to hold altitude then before. Used to be 4,900, now 4,500. I know that density altitude can change this so the results are not final. They are promising. So, you ask "What is lost to gain these things? It can't be all good, can it?" I did a top speed run to see if it is still in the ball park. Best guess from today is a a 3 mph loss. As far as rpms to hold cruise speed, it appeared to be too close to call. I am more concerned about how much gas I will burn per hour at a given speed. If it goes up, that will be a loss that I care about, but I will need a few trips to evaluate that. Can I really land slower? I think only a little. In order to get the speed down below 40, the tail must be lower. If I try to do that over the runway, the tail just touches and the mains come down. I do believe that it will be easier to get into a small strip, because I will be able to fly the approach 10 mph slower. Now that I have a new 10 mph range to fly, where is the wing most efficient? What speed is the sink the least? I tried this at 4,500 rpms and idle. The results were the same. No change from 40 to 30. I could hold altitude at 4,500 rpms at any speed between 30 and 40, no climb and no sink. If I went faster than 40, I needed more rpms. At idle, I had a 500 to 600 ft/min sink anywhere between 30 and 40 mph. Here is my recomendation: If you haven't flown a Kolb yet, put VGs on before the first flight. If you are already flying a Kolb without VG's, try them, you will like them. -------- John Jung Firestar II N6163J Surprise, AZ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=22400#22400 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:21 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" My FSII flies that good right out of the box! It's for sale, by the way. 95, 431 hrs.,8G w/ enc. trailer. Upper Michigan. Contact me direct and put "Kolb for sale" in the subject line or I won't get it. Aaron agustafson@chartermi.net do not archive >>> That's 40 mph indicateed down to 30 mph indicated. <<< ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:28 PM PST US From: "Chris Mallory" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" John, Did you install the VG's on your horizontal stabilizer also? Chris Mallory do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:27 PM PST US From: "Chris Mallory" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" John, Did you install the VG's on your horizontal stabilizer also? Chris Mallory do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jung" Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" > > Group, > > This morning, I got a chance to fly in calm air, and really test the > LandShorter VG's on my Firestar II. Wow! Call me a believer. This was the > most sigificant change that I have made to my Firestar by a long shot. I > was one that found the VG reports by others a little hard to believe. I > thought that they had to be exagerating some. No more. > > My Firestar II now has a 10 mph lower stall speed. That's 40 mph > indicateed down to 30 mph indicated. But that is only for starters: The > stall, before, was sharp enough to bend the aluminum gear by flairing too > soon and stalling just 10 feet over the runway. Now the stall is almost > none existant. The break can be felt, it's eazy to notice, but the nose > hardly drops and the wing starts flying again with no input from me. I did > full power stalls, cruise power stalls, and power at idle stalls. All were > at 30 mph and with similar results. > > Possum said to take steep turns at 30 mph. I'm not ready to try that, but > I did try steep turns at 40 mph. Amazing! My Firestar did a good imitation > of a glider. It held altitude in a steep turn with only about 100 rpm more > than it took to hold altitude on the level. > > And that brings up the next change: I needed about 400 rpm less to hold > altitude then before. Used to be 4,900, now 4,500. I know that density > altitude can change this so the results are not final. They are promising. > > So, you ask "What is lost to gain these things? It can't be all good, can > it?" I did a top speed run to see if it is still in the ball park. Best > guess from today is a a 3 mph loss. As far as rpms to hold cruise speed, > it appeared to be too close to call. I am more concerned about how much > gas I will burn per hour at a given speed. If it goes up, that will be a > loss that I care about, but I will need a few trips to evaluate that. > > Can I really land slower? I think only a little. In order to get the speed > down below 40, the tail must be lower. If I try to do that over the > runway, the tail just touches and the mains come down. I do believe that > it will be easier to get into a small strip, because I will be able to fly > the approach 10 mph slower. > > Now that I have a new 10 mph range to fly, where is the wing most > efficient? What speed is the sink the least? I tried this at 4,500 rpms > and idle. The results were the same. No change from 40 to 30. I could hold > altitude at 4,500 rpms at any speed between 30 and 40, no climb and no > sink. If I went faster than 40, I needed more rpms. At idle, I had a 500 > to 600 ft/min sink anywhere between 30 and 40 mph. > > Here is my recomendation: If you haven't flown a Kolb yet, put VGs on > before the first flight. If you are already flying a Kolb without VG's, > try them, you will like them. > > -------- > John Jung > Firestar II N6163J > Surprise, AZ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=22400#22400 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:04 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II From: "John Jung" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com wrote: > John, > > Did you install the VG's on your horizontal stabilizer also? > > Chris Mallory > > do not archive > > --- No, just on the wings. My Firestar has a 37% CG, so I had no problem with enough up elevator. -------- John Jung Firestar II N6163J Surprise, AZ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=22424#22424 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:49 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Land Shorter VG's on Firestar II --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Hi John J/All: "But that is only for starters: The stall, before, was sharp enough to bend the aluminum gear by flairing too soon and stalling just 10 feet over the runway." I might be reading this wrong, but you can straighten me out if I am. I don't know of any Kolb that won't spread the gear as the result of a 10 ft drop. "Now the stall is almost none existant. The break can be felt, it's eazy to notice, but the nose hardly drops and the wing starts flying again with no input from me. I did full power stalls, cruise power stalls, and power at idle stalls. All were at 30 mph and with similar results." How did the above change your landing technique? Interesting to note, FSII stalled at 30 mph full power, cruise power, and power off. | Possum said to take steep turns at 30 mph. I'm not ready to try that, but I did try steep turns at 40 mph. Amazing! My Firestar did a good imitation of a glider. It held altitude in a steep turn with only about 100 rpm more than it took to hold altitude on the level. Correct me if I am wrong. If you stall at 30 mph straight and level, your stall speed will increase quite a bit in a tight turn, or do the VG's take care of that little problem? | John Jung JJ, glad you are happy with the VG's. Keep us informed as you gain more experience with them. Still contemplating sticking those little things all over my wings. First, I have to get back in the MKIII and get some flying done to get my flying skills up a bit. For the most part, most Kolbs I have flown without VG's perform as described by those of you that are now flying them, with the major exception of shaving 10 mph off the indicated stall speed. Lot's to be learned about these little critters, VG's and Kolbs. john h MKIII