---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/04/06: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:35 PM - Re: Instrument Markings (pollus) 2. 03:30 PM - Another Porcupine Kolb (thanks John H., I like the name) takes to the air (jmbrooks@ctc.net) 3. 05:42 PM - Re: Instrument Markings (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 4. 06:02 PM - Re: sneaky wind (planecrazzzy) 5. 06:12 PM - Re: sneaky wind ... pic (Flycrazy8@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:00 PM PST US From: pollus Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Instrument Markings --> Kolb-List message posted by: pollus Hi Dave The flight handbook I got with my MK3C states (in german) V(NE) = 145 km/h (= 78 knots) Zulassigge Hochstgeschwindigkeit V(A) = 110 km/h (= 59 knots) Manovergeschwindigkeit V(F) = 100 km/h (= 54 knots) Max Klappengeschwindigkeit V(S) = 65 km/h @400 kg and flaps 30 degrees (= 35 knots) Mindestgeschwindigkeit So far this language course. I did the km/h to knots calculation myself so you might want to double check the numbers. Greetings from Holland Pollus Op 3-apr-2006, om 21:59 heeft Dave & Eve Pelletier het volgende geschreven: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > > > Kolbers, > > I have an older MK III Classic and I'm in the process of > marking my instruments for an airworthiness inspection but I don't > know what the max Flaps Extend (Vfe) speed and the normal operating > (Vsi to Vno) range (Green Band) should be. Vsi is 42 for my > plane. HELP! > > Thanks, > AzDave > > Do Not Archive > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:20 PM PST US From: "jmbrooks@ctc.net" Subject: Kolb-List: Another Porcupine Kolb (thanks John H., I like the name) takes to the air --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jmbrooks@ctc.net" I recently installed modified Jack Hart designed vortex generators on the Firestar II 503 I build and have flown more than 450 hrs over the last 10 years. I used aluminum trim as material and a die similar to the one Jack describes on his web site. The modification was to leave a 3/16" flat on the top edges and add a 1/32" radius on the back corners. This produces vg's that are not as likely to damage someone practicing Kolb worship (washing). The vg's were installed on the wing 11" back from the apex of the leading edge (measured along the camber of the rib) centered in the valleys. They were bonded to the fabric (Poly Tone paint) with GE 102 silicone adhesive. No vg's were installed in the valleys inside the prop arc. An additional 7 vg's were installed on the bottom of each horizontal stabilizer, evenly distributed between the tip and the last inboard rib of the elevator, 2.5" ahead of the hinge center line. The following report is a compilation of 3 flights on 2 different days totaling 1.5 hr: I weigh about 280 lb when dressed for the weather present at the time of testing so the Firestar had a take off weight of about 640(me+30lb fuel+330lb airplane). Conditions for the test flights on both days were 50 deg F and no surface wind. After making 8-10 take offs and landings plus numerous touch and goes I can report that the take off roll seemed unchanged (130') although the altitude at the far end of the 5000' runway went from 800' AGL under similar conditions to 1000' AGL with the vg's using the 50 mph climb speed I normally use. The stall speed dropped from 40-42 mph to 34-36 mph. My CG is at 29%. Before the vg installation the airplane always stalled the elevator first. This stall was characterized by the elevator stick pressure suddenly dropping, the wings staying level at the point of the stall and the ailerons retaining authority through the stall with a very noticable drop of the nose. After the vg's the wing is now stalling, characterized by the retention of the elevator pressure, the nose dropping and the slight dropping of a wing, 4 stalls (engine idling) yielded the right wing dropping twice and the left wing dropping twice. The stall with the vg's is less severe, losing less altitude than prior to the installation. A slight reduction in back pressure breaks the stall and recovery is immediate. I have over 650 hr in certified airplanes as PIC. In fact, I owned the PA-12 that Homer Kolb was a partner in back in the late 50's and early 60's. 10 years ago I learned that wheel landing was the best method for me in the Firestar, though I've always preferred three point landings in the other airplanes I've flown. I had difficulty judging and maintaining the correct attitude for a three point landing, even with elevator gap seals installed. The additional 3-5 mph of the wheel landing made the arrivals much more consistent. I was very pleasantly supprised when my first landing, using the same stick pressure I previously used for wheel landing, yielded a very nice three point landing. I have three pointed ever since. Speed and power on final dropped from 50mph@3000rpm to 45@2500. As I gain confidence with experience I may find that landing at idle may be possible. I will approach this point with care as I have dinged the gear before. The best and most fun imporvement in the flight characteristics has been in the lower end of the envelope. Before the vg's the low end of comfortable flight was about 50 mph. Below that speed it was difficult to maintain a constant altitude and speed without considerable concentration and continuous correction. Now cruising at 45@4600, while enjoying the scenery without concentrating on flying the airplane, is as easy as it was to cruise at 55@5000 previously. I feel this to be a real improvement in the fun factor. I consider the addition of the vg's to be one of the best modifications I have tried on this airplane and a true improvement to a truly fine airplane. John Brooks FSII 503 Oakboro, NC (As my Father-in-law always said "The center of the world." ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:34 PM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Instrument Markings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Pollus, Thanks, I now have to get out my conversion charts to see what they are in mph, but that will be fun to do. But ok, ok, what is a "klappenwhatchamacallit" and a "Mindesgesthingy"? Dave Do Not Archive > --> Kolb-List message posted by: pollus > > Hi Dave > > The flight handbook I got with my MK3C states (in german) > > V(NE) = 145 km/h (= 78 knots) Zulassigge Hochstgeschwindigkeit > V(A) = 110 km/h (= 59 knots) Manovergeschwindigkeit > V(F) = 100 km/h (= 54 knots) Max Klappengeschwindigkeit > V(S) = 65 km/h @400 kg and flaps 30 degrees (= 35 knots) > Mindestgeschwindigkeit > > So far this language course. I did the km/h to knots calculation > myself so you might want to double check the numbers. > > Greetings from Holland > Pollus > > > Op 3-apr-2006, om 21:59 heeft Dave & Eve Pelletier het volgende > geschreven: > >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" >> >> >> Kolbers, >> >> I have an older MK III Classic and I'm in the process of >> marking my instruments for an airworthiness inspection but I don't >> know what the max Flaps Extend (Vfe) speed and the normal operating >> (Vsi to Vno) range (Green Band) should be. Vsi is 42 for my >> plane. HELP! >> >> Thanks, >> AzDave >> >> Do Not Archive >> > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:02 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: sneaky wind From: "planecrazzzy" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" My Tailwheel instructor had a good saying... Wind Behind - "Blows the stick" Headwind - Pull Back, stick into wind [quote If the wind is from the right rear, push the stick to the left front, etc. -------- I can only make One person HAPPY each day, Today's just NOT your day.... Tomorrow doesn't look good either ! .. .. .. .. .Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=26513#26513 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:38 PM PST US From: Flycrazy8@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: sneaky wind ... pic --> Kolb-List message posted by: Flycrazy8@aol.com Kolbers Same thing happened to a friend of mine's " Firestar " a couple years ago. Jus a little ole summer shower (but with it a sneaky wind) came up and turned His Firestar and a Quicksilver completely over totaling both aircraft . The Quicksilver driver was trying his best to hold his aircraft on the ground but had to let go when it went airborne . Also damaged a wing on a Firestar II . A lesson our club has learned well that every fly -n ----- >> Carry them tie downs and put them to GOOD USE . I have a picture of the overturned Firestar if anyone wants a LQQK Contact me offline . Stephen flycrazy8@aol.com Firefly DO Not Archive