Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:19 AM - Kolb engineering (Edward Steuber)
2. 05:25 AM - 3/8" Insead of 5/16" (DrHook)
3. 05:54 AM - Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo (Eugene Zimmerman)
4. 06:14 AM - Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo (Len du Preez)
5. 06:14 AM - Few Quoestion from a posible Kolber... (Len du Preez)
6. 06:28 AM - Fuel Pump (Jimmy)
7. 06:30 AM - Re: 3/8" Insead of 5/16" (Jack B. Hart)
8. 06:35 AM - Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo (Todd Fredricks)
9. 06:38 AM - Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo (Vic Peters)
10. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: adj. hinges (Vic Peters)
11. 06:52 AM - Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo (Len du Preez)
12. 07:35 AM - Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo (Todd Fredricks)
13. 07:56 AM - Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo (J.D. Stewart)
14. 07:56 AM - Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo (Len du Preez)
15. 08:52 AM - Re: Fuel Pump (Eugene Zimmerman)
16. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: adj. hinges (Richard Pike)
17. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: adj. hinges (John Hauck)
18. 09:52 AM - Flight Charistics of Kolb Mark 3 (jratcli256@AOL.COM)
19. 10:00 AM - Re: Re: adj. hinges (Eugene Zimmerman)
20. 10:10 AM - Re: 3/8" Insead of 5/16" (Denny Rowe)
21. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: adj. hinges (John Hauck)
22. 10:51 AM - Re: Flight Charistics of Kolb Mark 3 (John Hauck)
23. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: adj. hinges (John Hauck)
24. 11:04 AM - Aircraft Engineers (John Hauck)
25. 11:19 AM - Re: Aircraft Engineers (Todd Fredricks)
26. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: adj. hinges (Eugene Zimmerman)
27. 11:21 AM - Re: Aircraft Engineers (Ralph)
28. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: adj. hinges (Vic Peters)
29. 12:33 PM - Re: Flight Charistics of Kolb Mark 3 (Vic Peters)
30. 12:43 PM - Re: Kolb engineering (John Adamson)
31. 12:47 PM - Kolb Design (frcole@aol.com)
32. 12:54 PM - Re: Fuel Pump (N27SB@aol.com)
33. 12:56 PM - Re: Kolb Design (John Hauck)
34. 01:07 PM - Re: Aircraft Engineers (John Adamson)
35. 01:12 PM - Re: Aircraft Engineers (John Adamson)
36. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Design (N27SB@AOL.COM)
37. 01:22 PM - Re: Kolb Design (Vic Peters)
38. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: adj. hinges (Richard Pike)
39. 02:27 PM - Re: Few Quoestion from a posible Kolber... (planecrazzzy)
40. 04:57 PM - Re: Kolb Design (JetPilot)
41. 05:01 PM - Re: Flight Charistics of Kolb Mark 3 (Larry Bourne)
42. 05:29 PM - test&update (Paul Petty)
43. 05:33 PM - Re: Hey Big Lar...Vamoose update ??? (Larry Bourne)
44. 05:37 PM - Re: Kolb Design (Larry Bourne)
45. 07:05 PM - Re: 3/8" Insead of 5/16" (jerb)
46. 10:20 PM - Re: Kolb engineering (Richard Girard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Kolb engineering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
John A. (TX)
We have a lot of "homegrown engineers"in the spirit of the EAA...and
we all know without the original experimenters the homebuilt movement would
be dead ...some were engineers but most were good ole boys with backgrounds
...a lot of SWAG used...Scientific wild-ass guessing......some are no longer
with us because of their experimenting....but that's progress...and that's freedom....
The majority of Kolbs are N-numbered.....There are some safeguards
in the inspection process after completion of an n-numbered aircraft and if
a major change is made to an aircraft after the certification , then you need
another approval from the powers that be....... Ultralights are exempt from
any regulation or common sense.
Hope this helps ....
Ed in Western NY
Message 2
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| Subject: | 3/8" Insead of 5/16" |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "DrHook" <csgale@yahoo.com>
Besides the wingtips, I am building new Vertical Stabilizer, Rudder, and Elevators.
The Plans show using 5/16" for most all of this. I could not find 5/16" 6061 T6
so I bought 3/8" instead.
What do you guys think? Will that be OK to use?
Thanks Chris
--------
Kolb Firestar owner, Rebuild-Recover job at hand.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28099#28099
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Apr 12, 2006, at 11:57 PM, jadamson wrote:
> I've just seen a few guys crater after making some mod or other
> without a clue as to strength of materials, tension, shear or any
> of the other topics from the engineering world. Hate it when that
> happens!
Welcome John,
You must have been on the wrong list then.
We do not claim to be able to prevent suicide, but I've been on the
kolb list a long time and I have yet to hear of a list member
"crater" their kolb because of mods.
You will get jumped on real good in here if you propose a mod to your
kolb plane that is unsafe.
We do have a few Wilber and Orville types here who will try new things.
In fact, they are the reason that kolb planes are what they are
today. Kolb planes are all someone's experiment.
And yes, we do have engineers on this list.
again, Welcome!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za>
Kind regards
Len du Preez
083 453 7806
Len@I5T.co.za
Hi
My name is Len, I am still trying to make up my mind between the Kolb Kolbra
and the CGS Hawk Arrow...
What would be the Maximum prop diameter to use with a 582 and ebox on the
Kolbra?
Len
Message 5
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| Subject: | Few Quoestion from a posible Kolber... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za>
Hi
My name is Len, I am still trying to make up my mind between the Kolb Kolbra
and the CGS Hawk Arrow...
What would be the Maximum prop diameter to use with a 582 and ebox on the
Kolbra?
Len
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy" <jhankin@planters.net>
On preflight yesterday I found a broken fuel line on my fuel pump. Mine is
the dual type with two outlets. It has two lines going in-to a y fitting,
one of these two short lines was ruptured. Question's are, can one side of
this outlet be stopped up, if so, how. Do these outlets come from the same
chamber of the fuel pump? I have as 447 with single carbs.
Ruptured line was not touching anything, hole was right in the middle of the
line. While priming with fuel bulb, I heard gas dripping, was not there day
before. Lines are about a year old. Gates premium lines. Have tried to
get boat fuel lines but cannot fine it in 1/4".
Jimmy Hankinson
912-863-7384
Firefly 035
JYL (Sylvania)
Pegasus Field (Home)
2000 Feet X 100 Feet- Grass
Rocky Ford, Georgia
Do Not Archive
--
----------------------------------------
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 1215 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 3/8" Insead of 5/16" |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 05:24 AM 4/13/06 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "DrHook" <csgale@yahoo.com>
>
>Besides the wingtips, I am building new Vertical Stabilizer, Rudder, and Elevators.
>The Plans show using 5/16" for most all of this. I could not find 5/16" 6061 T6
so I bought 3/8" instead.
>What do you guys think? Will that be OK to use?
>Thanks Chris
>
>--------
Chris,
Sure it is ok to use but you will building heavy and flying tail heavy forever.
Check out Wicks at: 1-800-221-9425 or at:
http://www.wicksaircraft.com
They have listed 6061-T6 listed.
OD WALL ID WGT P/FT PART NUMBER $/FOOT
5/16" .035 .243 .0366 R5/16X035-T6 1.29
5/16" .049 .215 .0477 R5/16X049-T6 1.13
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
If I might add something in here without answering your question directly. I
have flown the CGS products and have a fairly good knowledge of them. Don't
buy a CGS product.
It is not that they are bad machines, I enjoyed flying the Hawk a lot, it is
just that they are not anywhere near the quality of Kolb products. I think
your customer support will be better through Kolb as well. Make sure you sit
yourself in a Kolbra as well. If you are anywhere near 6 feet you are not
going to do well up front in a Kolbra.
Structurally, there is no comparison between CGS and Kolb.
Just my worthless two pennies...
Todd
On 4/13/06 9:14 AM, "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Len du Preez
> 083 453 7806
> Len@I5T.co.za
>
> Hi
>
> My name is Len, I am still trying to make up my mind between the Kolb Kolbra
> and the CGS Hawk Arrow...
>
> What would be the Maximum prop diameter to use with a 582 and ebox on the
> Kolbra?
>
> Len
--
Todd Fredricks, DO
Flying Fox Services
Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com
POWERED BY MAC
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
Even an engineer can be a dumb ass (in the words of Red Forman) just take a
close look at the Kolb plans books!
Vic
Kolb Mark III Exra ( Experimental)
Do not archive
--
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
Thanks Robert that pic may come in handy as I also need to raise the
trailing edge of my right wing. (seems a little too common)
I'm actually looking for adjustable horizontal stabilizer hinges.
Vic MKIIIX 912
Maine
do not archive
--
Message 11
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| Subject: | Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za>
Thanks
I am exactly 6' and weigh in the order of 115kg (240 odd pounds, I
think?)...
Just to make sure I understand your point, as English is not my first
language, you say the Kolbra is a tight fit up front...How about this in
comparison to the Hawk. I can get hold of a Hawk to fit but there is not a
single Kolbra is South Africa, only two Mark IIIs, 1 Slingshot and
apparently a Firestar and Firefly that I can not locate.
Kind regards
Len du Preez
083 453 7806
Len@I5T.co.za
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Fredricks
Sent: 13 April 2006 03:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard
engineering&quo
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
If I might add something in here without answering your question directly. I
have flown the CGS products and have a fairly good knowledge of them. Don't
buy a CGS product.
It is not that they are bad machines, I enjoyed flying the Hawk a lot, it is
just that they are not anywhere near the quality of Kolb products. I think
your customer support will be better through Kolb as well. Make sure you sit
yourself in a Kolbra as well. If you are anywhere near 6 feet you are not
going to do well up front in a Kolbra.
Structurally, there is no comparison between CGS and Kolb.
Just my worthless two pennies...
Todd
On 4/13/06 9:14 AM, "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Len du Preez
> 083 453 7806
> Len@I5T.co.za
>
> Hi
>
> My name is Len, I am still trying to make up my mind between the Kolb
Kolbra
> and the CGS Hawk Arrow...
>
> What would be the Maximum prop diameter to use with a 582 and ebox on the
> Kolbra?
>
> Len
--
Todd Fredricks, DO
Flying Fox Services
Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com
POWERED BY MAC
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>From personal experience you are not going to fit well into a Kolbra and a
Hawk will be okay. The Kolbra photos are somewhat deceptive because they are
showing the aircraft being flown by folks who are significantly less than 6'
tall. It is still superior in construction to a Hawk.
A couple other things to consider;
Dacron coverings. They are not going to last well in sunny hot high UV
environments. You really need to use fabric and dope.
Hawks don't fold. Kolbs have bomb-proof wing folding and while you might
think you will never use this feature, in the event you have a storm or some
other need to rapidly get the machine indoors, in a matter of 15 minutes or
so you can fold a Kolb and get it into a garage or other small space.
Single place light airplanes and ultralights all tend to be tight for big
guys.
I know that they look neat and it makes one feel like they are flying a
fighter etc, but even the Sky Arrow is a tight fit for me. The Kolb Firestar
is actually a pretty good fit for me but that is without a full enclosure.
The Kobra canopy is too steep up front to clear my head. Since it is
experimental you could modify the canopy to achieve head clearance but that
would be here in the USA. I have no idea how the SA government treats such
matters.
The Rans S-18 fits pretty well but you can't fold wings and I personally do
not like the shape of Ran's tails. They look goofy to my eye, but this is
just aesthetics.
Titan Tornados are also way too small up front.
I think you ought to look over the Mark IIIs. The fact is that the
visibility out of those airplanes is incredible. You are not cramped for
space, you have plenty of room beside you to put maps, cameras, or whatever
and they are fast by comparison to other models. They are not tandem
I can sent you a reference photo of me 6'3" 245 pounds sitting in the
factory Mark IIIX and you can get an idea of what I am talking about. My
Mark III will have a lot of Lexan around the front end. I am basically
looking to get something like a Seabird Seeker SB7L-360 to allow me to
augment my aerial photography work. But I want the structural integrity of
the Kolb design. As well the folding wings to get it stored cheaply and
trailered easily to work sites.
Send me your email and I will forward you the photo.
Kind Regards, Todd
On 4/13/06 9:52 AM, "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za>
>
> Thanks
> I am exactly 6' and weigh in the order of 115kg (240 odd pounds, I
> think?)...
>
--
Todd Fredricks, DO
Flying Fox Services
Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com
POWERED BY MAC
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "J.D. Stewart" <jstewart@inebraska.com>
The Titan Tornado S and SS (I'm the co-designer of the SS) are very large
in front, and the SS has ample room in the back for me. I'm 6'2", 220 lbs
and have no problem. The center bar hinge swings the door way up so entry
is easy. I have 4" of front and 2" of rear headroom in the S. Add 2" to
both of those for the SS.
There are S and SSs in South Africa to look at. The wings don't fold,
though.
Just wanted to set the record straight. Now, back to your regular Kolb
programming. :>)
J.D. Stewart
UltraFun AirSports, LLC
http://www.ultrafunairsports.com
Challenger e-mail list
http://challenger.inebraska.com
Titan e-mail list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Titanaircraft/
<snip>
> Titan Tornados are also way too small up front.
<snip
>
> Kind Regards, Todd
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard engineering&quo |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za>
Thanks for the info...send me those photos please!
len@i5t.co.za
Kind regards
Len du Preez
083 453 7806
Len@I5T.co.za
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Fredricks
Sent: 13 April 2006 04:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb factory participation vs "barnyard
engineering&quo
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
>From personal experience you are not going to fit well into a Kolbra and a
Hawk will be okay. The Kolbra photos are somewhat deceptive because they are
showing the aircraft being flown by folks who are significantly less than 6'
tall. It is still superior in construction to a Hawk.
A couple other things to consider;
Dacron coverings. They are not going to last well in sunny hot high UV
environments. You really need to use fabric and dope.
Hawks don't fold. Kolbs have bomb-proof wing folding and while you might
think you will never use this feature, in the event you have a storm or some
other need to rapidly get the machine indoors, in a matter of 15 minutes or
so you can fold a Kolb and get it into a garage or other small space.
Single place light airplanes and ultralights all tend to be tight for big
guys.
I know that they look neat and it makes one feel like they are flying a
fighter etc, but even the Sky Arrow is a tight fit for me. The Kolb Firestar
is actually a pretty good fit for me but that is without a full enclosure.
The Kobra canopy is too steep up front to clear my head. Since it is
experimental you could modify the canopy to achieve head clearance but that
would be here in the USA. I have no idea how the SA government treats such
matters.
The Rans S-18 fits pretty well but you can't fold wings and I personally do
not like the shape of Ran's tails. They look goofy to my eye, but this is
just aesthetics.
Titan Tornados are also way too small up front.
I think you ought to look over the Mark IIIs. The fact is that the
visibility out of those airplanes is incredible. You are not cramped for
space, you have plenty of room beside you to put maps, cameras, or whatever
and they are fast by comparison to other models. They are not tandem
I can sent you a reference photo of me 6'3" 245 pounds sitting in the
factory Mark IIIX and you can get an idea of what I am talking about. My
Mark III will have a lot of Lexan around the front end. I am basically
looking to get something like a Seabird Seeker SB7L-360 to allow me to
augment my aerial photography work. But I want the structural integrity of
the Kolb design. As well the folding wings to get it stored cheaply and
trailered easily to work sites.
Send me your email and I will forward you the photo.
Kind Regards, Todd
On 4/13/06 9:52 AM, "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Len du Preez" <Len@i5t.co.za>
>
> Thanks
> I am exactly 6' and weigh in the order of 115kg (240 odd pounds, I
> think?)...
>
--
Todd Fredricks, DO
Flying Fox Services
Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com
POWERED BY MAC
Do not archive
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Apr 13, 2006, at 9:28 AM, Jimmy wrote:
> Question's are, can one side of
> this outlet be stopped up, if so, how. Do these outlets come from
> the same
> chamber of the fuel pump?
Yes, they come from the same chamber and one can be closed off with
no problem if not needed.
Bur please check out the rest of your fuel lines.
Only one year old fuel line problem seems to indicate there is some
kind of compatibility issue with fuel/oil mix you are using.
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Here is how we did it. You could add a couple extra holes to the
brackets and see which worked best.
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/FSIIelevatorbracket.html
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Vic Peters wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
>
> Thanks Robert that pic may come in handy as I also need to raise the
> trailing edge of my right wing. (seems a little too common)
> I'm actually looking for adjustable horizontal stabilizer hinges.
>
> Vic MKIIIX 912
> Maine
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Richard P/Gang:
Got a lot riding on that Tractor Supply steel strap. Could be as
strong as 4130. Maybe not.
I would go with 4130 on an airplane, especially in a critical area
like the horizontal stabilizers.
My thoughts for what they are worth. What you paid for them.
"Nothing fancy, got a length of .080 x 3/4" steel strap from Tractor
Supply, cut out four brackets, and drilled three 3/16" holes in each
bracket."
john h
MKIII
Message 18
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| Subject: | Flight Charistics of Kolb Mark 3 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jratcli256@aol.com
Thanks guys for the input.
>From what I'm reading, The Kolb (or any aircraft in this category) seems to have
pretty well negated ground effect.
I found flying conventional aircraft rather boring after the lessons. Was wondering
how to spice it up.
Sounds like I've found the way. At 66 I still find learning fun.
Happy flying.
John Ratcliffe
jratcli256@aol.com
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
John,
Did you see the bracket?
Those original stainless brackets on the horizontal stabilizer will
fail long before preacher Pike's tractor supply straps ever do.
On Apr 13, 2006, at 12:15 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Richard P/Gang:
>
> Got a lot riding on that Tractor Supply steel strap. Could be as
> strong as 4130. Maybe not.
>
> I would go with 4130 on an airplane, especially in a critical area
> like the horizontal stabilizers.
>
> My thoughts for what they are worth. What you paid for them.
>
> "Nothing fancy, got a length of .080 x 3/4" steel strap from Tractor
> Supply, cut out four brackets, and drilled three 3/16" holes in each
> bracket."
>
> john h
> MKIII
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 3/8" Insead of 5/16" |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Would'nt the heavier tubing on the elevator and rudder make em more likely
to flutter?
Denny Rowe, Mk-3
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 3/8" Insead of 5/16"
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
> At 05:24 AM 4/13/06 -0700, you wrote:
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "DrHook" <csgale@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Besides the wingtips, I am building new Vertical Stabilizer, Rudder, and
>>Elevators.
>>The Plans show using 5/16" for most all of this. I could not find 5/16"
>>6061 T6 so I bought 3/8" instead.
>>What do you guys think? Will that be OK to use?
>>Thanks Chris
>>
>>--------
>
> Chris,
>
> Sure it is ok to use but you will building heavy and flying tail heavy
> forever.
>
> Check out Wicks at: 1-800-221-9425 or at:
>
> http://www.wicksaircraft.com
>
> They have listed 6061-T6 listed.
> OD WALL ID WGT P/FT PART NUMBER $/FOOT
> 5/16" .035 .243 .0366 R5/16X035-T6 1.29
> 5/16" .049 .215 .0477 R5/16X049-T6 1.13
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
,
| Did you see the bracket?
| Those original stainless brackets on the horizontal stabilizer will
| fail long before preacher Pike's tractor supply straps ever do.
|
Gene/Gang:
Yes I did see them.
No, I do not have them installed on my MKIII.
Don't think anyone has heard me rave about the durability of the SS
brackets that Old Kolb began using many years ago.
Yes, there have been some failures of the SS brackets, one relatively
recently.
I still stand by my own standards of not using unknown steel on an
airplane, especially on a critical area. That piece of TSC steel
strap my last forever, or maybe a day. I don't know and am not
willing to bet my ass on it.
Take care,
john h
MKIII
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Charistics of Kolb Mark 3 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
seems to have pretty well negated ground effect.
|
| John Ratcliffe
Kolb aircraft have the advantage of "ground effect" same as any other
fixed or rotary wing aircraft. Our aircraft do not have the weight,
do have the drag, and do not have the inertia that larger GA aircraft
have.
People have problems landing Kolbs early on, primarily because they
fly near the stall, stall them in ground effect, but way to high.
They are trying to land above the ground and not on it.
I have the problem sometimes when I am not paying particular attention
to what I am doing and let the MKIII stall too high and not a few
inches above the ground.
I noticed, flying the airstrip at Sun and Fun this year, my big fat
MKIII had tremendous float if I came in a tad hot, which I like to do
at Lakeland, based on a severe cross wind, coupled with all the
mechanical turbulence generated by other aircraft landing and taking
off very close together. That was with full flaps and clean.
Not once did I experience "Kolb quit" on my flight to, at, or return
to Gantt IAP. Amazing!
john h
MKIII
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
|| Those original stainless brackets on the horizontal stabilizer
will
|| fail long before preacher Pike's tractor supply straps ever do.
I might add, SS is far less fatigue resistant that carbon steel.
john h
MKIII
Message 24
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| Subject: | Aircraft Engineers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
This is in response to the gentleman that commented on all the "shade
tree aircraft engineers" on the Kolb List.
Yep, there are a bunch of us, including the designer of the Kolb
models, Homer Kolb.
Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know, Homer Kolb is an 8th
grade high school graduate. That was normal for students to graduate
in Pennsylvania at the 8th grade. My Dad did the same thing many
years prior to Homer's graduation. I believe Homer is a self taught
aircraft designer and engineer. I doubt he has any formal schooling
or a diploma as an aircraft engineer.
As some one else pointed out, we do have our share of "real" aircraft
engineers on the Kolb List. Yes, they will set you straight if you
attempt to vary too far from the norm. ;-)
Take care,
john h
MKIII
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Engineers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
Ed Heinemann did a pretty good job without going to a formal engineering
school as well. Just for thoughts.
Todd
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On 4/13/06 2:04 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> This is in response to the gentleman that commented on all the "shade
> tree aircraft engineers" on the Kolb List.
>
> Yep, there are a bunch of us, including the designer of the Kolb
> models, Homer Kolb.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know, Homer Kolb is an 8th
> grade high school graduate. That was normal for students to graduate
> in Pennsylvania at the 8th grade. My Dad did the same thing many
> years prior to Homer's graduation. I believe Homer is a self taught
> aircraft designer and engineer. I doubt he has any formal schooling
> or a diploma as an aircraft engineer.
>
> As some one else pointed out, we do have our share of "real" aircraft
> engineers on the Kolb List. Yes, they will set you straight if you
> attempt to vary too far from the norm. ;-)
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
> MKIII
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Todd Fredricks, DO
Flying Fox Services
Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com
POWERED BY MAC
Message 26
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Apr 13, 2006, at 1:53 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> I might add, SS is far less fatigue resistant that carbon steel.
>
> john h
> MKIII
Yup, I'd like to see kolb come up with a better solution for this
vulnerable part.
It may be adequate for flight loads but I know from experience that
that part gets a real workout at times when ground handling the plane.
It is so easy to grab on to the LE of one horizontal stab at that point.
Gene
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Engineers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
John and others,
Homer's designs have been checked out thoroughly by Dennis Souder who is a degreed
engineer. Dennis found that Homer actually over-designed the Firestar in some
areas.
Ralph
Original Firestar
19 years flying it
-- "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
This is in response to the gentleman that commented on all the "shade
tree aircraft engineers" on the Kolb List.
Yep, there are a bunch of us, including the designer of the Kolb
models, Homer Kolb.
Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know, Homer Kolb is an 8th
grade high school graduate. That was normal for students to graduate
in Pennsylvania at the 8th grade. My Dad did the same thing many
years prior to Homer's graduation. I believe Homer is a self taught
aircraft designer and engineer. I doubt he has any formal schooling
or a diploma as an aircraft engineer.
As some one else pointed out, we do have our share of "real" aircraft
engineers on the Kolb List. Yes, they will set you straight if you
attempt to vary too far from the norm. ;-)
Take care,
john h
MKIII
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 28
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
Thanks Richard ,gives me ideas at the very least.
Maybe I should run a length of cable around the boom tube an through both
stabilizers just incase. lol
Vic
MKIIIEX 040
912 spacerless Damn it $$$$ never ends
do not archive
--
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Charistics of Kolb Mark 3 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
At 66 I still find learning fun.
Your a better man than me. I'm 57 and learning but forgetting at a faster
pace.
Do you remember if this is Kolb related?
Vic
do not archive
--
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb engineering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
Ed
Thanks for the reminder about N-numbering and subsequent approvals to
any mods. And, yes, it helps keep things in perspective.
Thx again.
John A
Edward Steuber wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
>
>John A. (TX)
> We have a lot of "homegrown engineers"in the spirit of the EAA...and
we all know without the original experimenters the homebuilt movement would
be dead ...some were engineers but most were good ole boys with backgrounds
...a lot of SWAG used...Scientific wild-ass guessing......some are no longer
with us because of their experimenting....but that's progress...and that's freedom....
> The majority of Kolbs are N-numbered.....There are some safeguards
in the inspection process after completion of an n-numbered aircraft and
if a major change is made to an aircraft after the certification , then you need
another approval from the powers that be....... Ultralights are exempt from
any regulation or common sense.
> Hope this helps ....
>
Ed in Western NY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: frcole@aol.com
I am a pedigreed Aircraft Engineer and Homer's design is great. Before I flew I
did a lot of calculations and found two areas I redesigned (Aileron Hinges and
upper rib element just fwd of the spar). I could not design a plane with the
simplicity that Kolb achieved. However !, what still curls my toes after flying
a Firestar for 13 years is the single point failure points where one bolt
or element breaking is going to ruin your wifes day.
Dick C
St.Louis
Message 32
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/06 8:29:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
jhankin@planters.net writes:
> Gates premium lines. Have tried to
> get boat fuel lines but cannot fine it in 1/4".
>
Jimmy, I did some reasearch on this last year, Gates line may breakdown over
time from the inside because it is not designed for oil mix fuel. At that
time I found some sources for marine grade outbourd line in all sizes. Problem
was that it was too stiff to kink and make the normal primer bypass that we all
use. I decided to go back to the extra thick urethane line like Rotax uses on
the fuel pump.
I think next time around I will use the marine grade for everything and the
clear stuff for the bypass line.
If you got a hole next to the fuel pump consider the fact that you my have
pinched it with the aileron arm during wing fold. Thetas what I did.
Try searching for "marine grade fuel line" if you want to use the boat
stuff. I think West Marine carries the right size. I think 1/4" is too small.
Message 33
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> what still curls my toes after flying a Firestar for 13 years is the single point
failure points where one bolt or element breaking is going to ruin your wifes
day
Dick:
A couple ways to look at that.
1-Don't get married.
2-Make sure your bolts, cables, and hardware are serviceable.
How many airplanes, "real" and our type, have redundant attachments at every point?
I don't know of any right off hand.
Our little airplanes have a good track/safety record. Up to us to make sure we
fly with the best.
john h
MKIII
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28223#28223
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Engineers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
John H ..
Thanks for the reply and, yep, I'm the guilty party who raised the
question. Don't believe I went so far as to refer to anyone as a 'shade
tree engineer' but, if I offended anyone, my apologies.
And you're probably right about Homer's education & background. That
wasn't really the question. The design seems pretty well proven -
regardless of the designer's formal skills - but it was the mods I was
more interested in. Homer probably had a given number of materials
available for a/c use when the first design went out. Today, we have
lots more and of varying quality. As someone mentioned in another
thread, a given Tractor Supply steel strap may come from a "good" batch
.. or it may not .. but do you want to bet your ass on it? Same goes
for the discussion on 5/16" vs 3/8" 6061.
But you're right. There are likely a goodly number of engineers on the
list to remind us of the pros/cons on these things, and that's all I was
wondering about.
Thx again ..
John A
John Hauck wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>This is in response to the gentleman that commented on all the "shade
>tree aircraft engineers" on the Kolb List.
>
>Yep, there are a bunch of us, including the designer of the Kolb
>models, Homer Kolb.
>
>Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know, Homer Kolb is an 8th
>grade high school graduate. That was normal for students to graduate
>in Pennsylvania at the 8th grade. My Dad did the same thing many
>years prior to Homer's graduation. I believe Homer is a self taught
>aircraft designer and engineer. I doubt he has any formal schooling
>or a diploma as an aircraft engineer.
>
>As some one else pointed out, we do have our share of "real" aircraft
>engineers on the Kolb List. Yes, they will set you straight if you
>attempt to vary too far from the norm. ;-)
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>MKIII
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Engineers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
Thanks, Ralph.
Knowing a design has been checked out is always nice to know but, as
mentioned in another post, it was the *mods* to that design I was
curious about.
Thx again ..
John A
Ralph wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
>
>John and others,
>
>Homer's designs have been checked out thoroughly by Dennis Souder who is a degreed
engineer. Dennis found that Homer actually over-designed the Firestar in
some areas.
>
>Ralph
>Original Firestar
>19 years flying it
>
>
>-- "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>This is in response to the gentleman that commented on all the "shade
>tree aircraft engineers" on the Kolb List.
>
>Yep, there are a bunch of us, including the designer of the Kolb
>models, Homer Kolb.
>
>Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know, Homer Kolb is an 8th
>grade high school graduate. That was normal for students to graduate
>in Pennsylvania at the 8th grade. My Dad did the same thing many
>years prior to Homer's graduation. I believe Homer is a self taught
>aircraft designer and engineer. I doubt he has any formal schooling
>or a diploma as an aircraft engineer.
>
>As some one else pointed out, we do have our share of "real" aircraft
>engineers on the Kolb List. Yes, they will set you straight if you
>attempt to vary too far from the norm. ;-)
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>MKIII
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 4/13/06 3:01:24 PM Central Daylight Time,
jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
>
> >what still curls my toes after flying a Firestar for 13 years is the single
> point failure points where one bolt or element breaking is going to ruin
> your wifes day
>
>
B R S, don't leave home without it.
Don't get me wrong, a BRS is not fool proof or an option in all cases. In my
firefly on floats, most of my flying is at 20 feet. However I flew for years
at 10,000 ft with no options.
Steve B
Firefly #007 on floats
Message 37
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
However !, what still curls my toes after flying a Firestar for 13 years is
the single point failure points where one bolt or element breaking is going
to ruin your wifes day.
Dick C
Don't you mean "make your wifes day?" Well mine any way. at least 3 of the
last 3.
Vic
Maine
do not archive
--
Message 38
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
No way it is as strong as 4130. That's why it is eighty thousandths. Per
bracket.
Two per side. To hold two 1/16" thick stainless tangs that are stressed
in twist.
The stress point in that whole assembly is where the tangs are riveted
to the stab.
Which is made out of .049 aluminum tubing. Which is stressed in twist
against the rivet.
Yet you are correct, 4130 would have been more "airplaney,"
but with the original Piper J-3's, J-4's, and J-5's being built out of
1020 mild steel,
and still doing fine today, I doubt I'll lose any sleep worrying about a
couple 3"
long mild steel long brackets that are .080 thick, with the load running
favorably to the bracket.
Does that mean that we can use mild steel just anywhere and get away
with it?
Certainly not. And now that this has come up, I will go back and modify
the web page,
deleting the reference to Tractor Supply so as not to encourage bad habits.
No way would I want to encourage anybody to do anything unsafe.
But I don't plan to change out the present brackets...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
John Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Richard P/Gang:
>
> Got a lot riding on that Tractor Supply steel strap. Could be as
> strong as 4130. Maybe not.
>
> I would go with 4130 on an airplane, especially in a critical area
> like the horizontal stabilizers.
>
> My thoughts for what they are worth. What you paid for them.
>
> "Nothing fancy, got a length of .080 x 3/4" steel strap from Tractor
> Supply, cut out four brackets, and drilled three 3/16" holes in each
> bracket."
>
> john h
> MKIII
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Few Quoestion from a posible Kolber... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
You should probly contact the New Kolb Aircraft Co....
http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/
If it's not in their Spec's.....Contact "Customer Support"
Their Nice people...They'll answer ALL of your questions like that....
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN / N381PM
--------
.
.
.
.
.Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28246#28246
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pictures_from_cd_013_350.jpg
Message 40
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
frcole(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> However !, what still curls my toes after flying a Firestar for 13 years is the
single point failure points where one bolt or element breaking is going to
ruin your wifes day.
> Dick C
> St.Louis
Spend the money for a Good BRS Chute. We all know that the BRS is not a guarantee,
but it is pretty darn good. The Kolb has a great safety record, that combined
with the good record of the Kolb makes airframe failure a non-issue in my
book.
With both of those things working for me, chances are the drive to the airfield
is more dangerous than flying the Kolb with my BRS.
Michael A. Bigelow
--------
NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28263#28263
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Charistics of Kolb Mark 3 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
If what was Kolb related ?? Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight Charistics of Kolb Mark 3
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl@verizon.net>
>
> At 66 I still find learning fun.
>
> Your a better man than me. I'm 57 and learning but forgetting at a faster
> pace.
> > Vic
> do not archive
>
>
> Do you remember if this is Kolb related?
>
Message 42
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <lynnp@c-gate.net>
Hi Kolbers,
I have a new computer and lost the info on the BBS. Starting over here.....As for
Ms Dixie she comes apart this weekend for covering! What are other builders
up to? Maybe we need a thread on "Where I am in my building" and what I am building
perhaps.
Greetings from Harris Hollow
Regards,
Paul Petty
Kolbra 012
912UL
do not archive
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Hey Big Lar...Vamoose update ??? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I guess you must be psychic. Over the last few days I've installed the
vented valve covers and the stock oil pressure controls. Started Vamoose up
and the oil poured out - again, tho' I do think the volume was a little
less. Came inside, cussed more than a bit, checked my email to help cool
off, and this message was looking at me. Drained the oil tonight and will
pull the redrive this weekend. Again. Getting (??) tired of it. Wish I
could afford a 912.
All that said, and having had a day to cool off, I realize it's got to be
something simple, but it IS aggravating. This time, I'm going to pull the
flywheel, too, and measure and check everything that could possibly pass
oil. This WIll be solved. Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:22 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Hey Big Lar...Vamoose update ???
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey Big Lar,
> It's been a while since we got an "update"....
>
> What's the latest with yer Bird...?
>
> Are ya "sneakin it out" and flying it.....
> .
> .
> .
>
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN / N381PM
>
> --------
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=27991#27991
>
>
>
Message 44
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Seems to me that just about every plane out there has the same problem. I
know for sure the Cessnas I fly do, and it bothers me for a few minutes
every time I hit heavy turbulence. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <frcole@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Design
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: frcole@aol.com
>
> I am a pedigreed Aircraft Engineer and Homer's design is great. Before I
> flew I did a lot of calculations and found two areas I redesigned
> (Aileron Hinges and upper rib element just fwd of the spar). I could not
> design a plane with the simplicity that Kolb achieved. However !, what
> still curls my toes after flying a Firestar for 13 years is the single
> point failure points where one bolt or element breaking is going to ruin
> your wifes day.
> Dick C
> St.Louis
>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: 3/8" Insead of 5/16" |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
At 09:35 AM 4/13/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
>At 05:24 AM 4/13/06 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "DrHook" <csgale@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Besides the wingtips, I am building new Vertical Stabilizer,
> Rudder, and Elevators.
> >The Plans show using 5/16" for most all of this. I could not find
> 5/16" 6061 T6 so I bought 3/8" instead.
> >What do you guys think? Will that be OK to use?
> >Thanks Chris
> >
> >--------
>
>Chris,
>
>Sure it is ok to use but you will building heavy and flying tail
>heavy forever.
>
>Check out Wicks at: 1-800-221-9425 or at:
>
>http://www.wicksaircraft.com
>
>They have listed 6061-T6 listed.
>OD WALL ID WGT P/FT PART NUMBER $/FOOT
>5/16" .035 .243 .0366 R5/16X035-T6 1.29
>5/16" .049 .215 .0477 R5/16X049-T6 1.13
>
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Winchester, IN
Here's another source:
http://shapirosupply.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=5
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb engineering |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
Ed, et al, The subject of changes to the aircraft, both major and minor, and
the effect of the changes as to operation of the aircraft are discussed on
many lists. It comes down to what was written into your operating
limitations. Even major changes, a prop or an engine for example, may only
require a logbook notation and reverting back to the test area limitations
for 5 to 10 hours. The FAA has changed the wording of operating limitations
in the last few years. If you find your operating limitations are the older,
more restrictive version you can petition your local FSDO to amend and
upgrade them to the new wording.
On 4/13/06, John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
>
> Ed
>
> Thanks for the reminder about N-numbering and subsequent approvals to
> any mods. And, yes, it helps keep things in perspective.
>
> Thx again.
> John A
>
> Edward Steuber wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Edward Steuber" <
> esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
> >
> >John A. (TX)
> > We have a lot of "homegrown engineers"in the spirit of
> the EAA...and we all know without the original experimenters the homebuilt
> movement would be dead ...some were engineers but most were good ole boys
> with backgrounds ...a lot of SWAG used...Scientific wild-ass
> guessing......some are no longer with us because of their
> experimenting....but that's progress...and that's freedom....
> > The majority of Kolbs are N-numbered.....There are some
> safeguards in the inspection process after completion of an n-numbered
> aircraft and if a major change is made to an aircraft after the
> certification , then you need another approval from the powers that
> be....... Ultralights are exempt from any regulation or common sense.
> > Hope this helps ....
> >
Ed
> in Western NY
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Pining for a home on the Range"
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