Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:06 AM - Re: Re: Weather aka What lifts a wing? (pat ladd)
2. 05:14 AM - Re: Re: Weather aka What lifts a wing? (Ralph)
3. 07:01 AM - Re: New Respect for the Challenger (Jerry Deckard)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: Rotax Relapse (Beauford)
5. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: Rotax Relapse (John Hauck)
6. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: Rotax Relapse (Beauford)
7. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: Rotax Relapse (Eugene Zimmerman)
8. 08:54 AM - Fw: Re: Rotax Relapse (Beauford)
9. 09:02 AM - Minimum pilot weight (galen shirley)
10. 10:41 AM - Re: Minimum pilot weight (John Jung)
11. 10:51 AM - Re: Minimum pilot weight (galen shirley)
12. 02:39 PM - Re: New Respect for the Challenger (pat ladd)
13. 04:04 PM - Re: Rotax Relapse (Dave Bigelow)
14. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Relapse (George T. Alexander, Jr.)
15. 07:27 PM - Slipper Clutch (frank & margie)
16. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Relapse (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
17. 10:50 PM - Re: Engine ideas (sleepless night) (jerb)
18. 11:00 PM - Re: Rotax Relapse (jerb)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Weather aka What lifts a wing? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Cash is what makes a wing lift! >>
Good one Carlos. No bucks, no Buck Rogers!
Pat
do not archive
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Weather aka What lifts a wing? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
-- "Carlos" <grageda@innw.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Carlos" <grageda@innw.net>
Hi Guys & Gals,
Hmmm what makes a wing lift? I believe aerodynamics has nothing to do =
with it.=20
Cash is what makes a wing lift! No two ways about it, no money =3Dno =
flying.
Sad but true I'm sorry to say.
I have the receipts to prove it....
Best Regards
Carlos G.
..... and the faster they go, the cash amount rises exponentially!
Ralph
Original Firestar
19 years flying it (still cheap flying)
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: New Respect for the Challenger |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry Deckard" <mustangsally@semo.net>
The challenger is hard to beat for a two place with 503. Like every plane
it has some limitations. I have flown mine with a 503 with two on board and
out run a S12 with 582 and solo, same with a 582 Flightstar. It flies
right along with my buddies firestar 503 while I am carrying 2. I now have
a 582 on it and it will climb. I am currently building a firestar have the
Challenger for sale. They are good planes and a good bang for the buck.
Now a passenger will probably enjoy the Kolb more, it is very windy in the
back seat of a challenger and a "little" cramped.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: New Respect for the Challenger
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL
> <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
> Kolb Friends -
>
> Went flying yesterday in my Mark-3, with another fellow flying his
> 503-powered Challenger alongside, for some two-ship formation flying in
> the
> local area. My first thoughts were that I would probably have to power
> WAY
> back on my 912ul in order for him to keep up. Boy was I wrong!
>
> Once at altitude, his Challenger (with two aboard) was keeping right up
> with
> my Kolb. I was cruising at 5000 rpm, and indicating 65 mph at 8000' msl.
> (According to my airspeed performance charts for that altitude and temp,
> true airspeed was 75 mph.) My buddy was running his belt-drive 503 at
> 6000
> rpm. Not surprisingly, his loaded Challenger did not have the climb rate
> as
> a Kolb on takeoff. But the clean aerodynamics of the Challenger design
> allowed him to maintain a respectable cruise speed, especially with only
> 53
> hp.
>
> Not saying I would ever want to trade in my Kolb for a Challenger, but ...
> it did give me a revised opinion of that little aircraft.
>
> I hereby promise never to scoff at Pat Ladd's airplane again!
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Mark-3, 912ul, PowerFin-72
> New Mexico
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Relapse |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
What you say makes sense to me, Ellery...Thanks for
the perspective...
That's why it was taken to Lockwood when the
defective choke piston in the Bing caused all the carbon
problems and I couldn't figure it out....
Yesterday I unloaded the prop slightly... from 6450
WOT to 6600... and went ahead and replaced the fan belt..
it was marginally loose and would not tighten enough to get
it quite to specs. Replaced it to rule it out as a factor... And also
because George Alexander claimed he could hear a high-pitched
squeal as I flew past on downwind with the old belt... I assured
George that the squeal was likely coming from the pilot, not the
fan belt... Anyway, he claims he cannot hear the squeal any longer
after the belt was replaced... (the old one wasn't really that loose).
Also ran premium gas with PZ AC at 50 to 1 yesterday.
Result was some improvement, but it is still not where it
needs to be: Front cylinder CHT remains 30 - 35 hotter than the rear
and still wants to run around 390 at 6000 cruise. This makes me
a tad uncomfortable, but it beats the 400 plus it had been showing and
I
have about resigned myself to just watching it run to see what happens
next. Believe it is stemming from a slightly tight (green dot) piston
in the
front jug and it is just going to have to wear a little of that
tightness out of itself
before things settle down. Will go ahead and run 50 to 1 oil until
the
thing loosens up or blows up.
Looking at the temp difference between the cylinders, got to
speculating about the Rotax rationale for publishing a maximum
acceptable CHT delta... is it:
a. Because a large temp difference is an INDICATOR of an abnormal
condition that requires immediate attention...? Or is it...
b. Because a large temp difference sets up asymetric stresses in
components which can CAUSE failures...?
Or is it a combination of both....?
Obviously, I'm thinking about the implications of continuing to run
this thing with the existing CHT differential... the EGT's are
running identically... no difference between cylinders.
For anyone who is interested, it looks to me
like the Gates belt cross-reference for the 447 is
the Gates #1240. Adjusted up OK... will look
at it again after a couple of hours to see how it's doing.
Still got the Timex
Beauford
FF#076
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElleryWeld@aol.com>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax Relapse
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
>
> I also have over 330 hours on a 447 rotax 2 stroke in a firestar
without a
> glitch > on the other hand if you dont know what you are doing, then
keep your paws
> out of it and take it to someone who knows what it needs to get the
longer life
> out of it, and a properly adjusted prop is alot of the adjustment ,
I think
>
> >
> do not archive
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Relapse |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| this thing with the existing CHT differential... the EGT's are
| running identically... no difference between cylinders.
/
What kind of engine instruments are you using? Steam gauges or the
digital thing, ahhhhhhhhhhh....I remembered the name, EIS? Are they
temperature compensated? or do you have to take care of that operation
in your head?
Been a long time since I worried about temp compesation, but the base
line is 68 or 70F. Based on OAT, one must add or subtract the
difference to get "actual temp".
If unloading the prop brought the CHT down and the EGT is in the
green, seems to me you are headed in the right direction.
Nothing associated with our sport is "precision", from airplanes, to
engines, to instruments, and pilots. If the 447 is making power,
running good, instruments are in the green, I'd fly and enjoy it. If
it breaks, you know what to do. ;-)
john h
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Relapse |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> What kind of engine instruments are you using? Steam gauges or the
> digital thing, ahhhhhhhhhhh....I remembered the name, EIS? Are they
> temperature compensated? or do you have to take care of that
operation
> in your head?
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Relapse |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On May 6, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Beauford wrote:
> Still got the Timex
> Beauford
But George is still worthy for listening to that thing squeal. :-)
Hi George!
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Relapse |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Ooooops... excuse the "blank" I just fired...
I am running the EIS... and it is supposedly temp corrected...
Beauford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax Relapse
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
<jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> >
> > What kind of engine instruments are you using? Steam gauges or
the
> > digital thing, ahhhhhhhhhhh....I remembered the name, EIS? Are
they
> > temperature compensated? or do you have to take care of that
> operation
> > in your head?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Minimum pilot weight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "galen shirley" <oneaviator@msn.com>
hello group,
I just bought a used Firestar II with no manuals and need to know what the minimum
pilot weight is or, Where can I find weight and balance information.
Thanks
Galen
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33142#33142
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum pilot weight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
galen shirley wrote:
> hello group,
> I just bought a used Firestar II with no manuals and need to know what the minimum
pilot weight is or, Where can I find weight and balance information.
>
> Thanks
> Galen
Galen,
On Firestar II's, the minimum pilot weight is determined by the aft CG limit with
full fuel. On mine, it is about 150 pounds, but is different on each plane.
So if you didn't get any CG info with the plane, I suggest that you weigh the
plane and calculate the minumum. I don't have my plans handy, but I do have an
Excel program for calculating Firestar II w&b. I do have an extra set of plans,
too.
--------
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33153#33153
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum pilot weight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "galen shirley" <oneaviator@msn.com>
Thanks for the reply - Would you send me the excel spreedsheet and I would be willing
to buy the set of plans from you. I weigh 140 lbs so I will have to add
some weight somewhere.
Thanks
Galen
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33155#33155
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: New Respect for the Challenger |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
I hereby promise never to scoff at Pat Ladd's airplane again!>>
Aw gee Dennis . I think you are all heart and a great guy. No matter what
others say.!
Dont often fly the Challenger 2 up as Wendy who is a little vertically
challenged finds it too uncomfortable stretching forward to get her feet
into the aft rudder pedals. One up, all 200 lbs plus clothes and flying gear
of me usually cruise at 60/65 KNOTS at just over 5000rpm on the 503 and get
800 ft p m plus on take off climb to 1000 ft. Little bit slower above that.
Paperwork for the Kolb, AND THE CHEQUE are with the PFA who expect to
process within 2/3 days. Then the CAA gets to process the paperwork, they
say 3/4 days, so I am looking, hopefully as ever, to receiving the
Certificate for unlimited flying at the beginning of the week after next.
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Relapse |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave Bigelow" <up_country@hotmail.com>
Beauford,
I've followed your 447 adventures with great interest. As I understand it, the
engine ran normally after the Lockwood Aviation overhaul. You mention running
with Amsoil.
A number of years ago, I used Amsoil at ratios varying from 100:1 to 50:1 in a
Koenig 3 cylinder two stroke. The amsoil left a a black gunky mess in the ring
area. I discontinued using it.
The rings in Rotax engins are of a design that cannot tolerate a bunch of junk
in the grooves. I'd guess that when you pull the pistons and look at the rings,
you'll find the Amsoil residue. When you clean things up and reassemble, try
using California Power Systems AV2 two stroke oil at 50:1. It's formulated
for Rotax engines. Another good choice is Pennsoil Two Stroke oil for aircooled
engines.
Let us know how it goes.
--------
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, Rotax 503 DCDI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33182#33182
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Relapse |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George T. Alexander, Jr." <gtalexander@att.net>
Eugene and other interested listers....
While I would be proud to wear the Timex that works as well as Beauford's
R447, I would hate to come by it in the way he proposed. Maybe he will give
it up as broke... don't know how he can hear it ticking when he can't hear
that squeal.
Anyway, there is a brief record of his excursions yesterday in his endeavor
to deal with the problem of high CHTs.
For those who are interested, you can view this record at:
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbplanes/BeaufordCHT
Fun, Safe Flying!
George Alexander
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
PS: Eugene-best to all the 'Z' Men
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eugene
Zimmerman
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax Relapse
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On May 6, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Beauford wrote:
> Still got the Timex
> Beauford
But George is still worthy for listening to that thing squeal. :-)
Hi George!
do not archive
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "frank & margie" <frank-margie@worldnet.att.net>
[REF:]
ASSUMED
| that it was a centrifugal clutch that would lock up at high RPMs.
Tell me
| more about how it works.
|
| Rick Neilsen
No sir. One of those slipper clutches is the last thing I would want
to fly with on an airplane. They worked ok on my oldest brother's
Cushman motor scooter back in the 40's, and on my chain saw and weed
eater today. But don't think I want to go whizzing around in the air
with one.
Prior to the slipper clutch, the anti-torsional vibration dampening
was accomplished through a "dog and ramp" system under a lot of
pressure exerted by a number of very large domed spring washers. The
valleys, between the ramps were very narrow.
The slipper clutch uses a similar system with a few changes.
1-Valleys between ramps are much wider.
2-A multi-disk clutch pack which is spring loaded, is added to the
system. This clutch actually slips a little when necessary to assist
in dampening torsional vibration. Not only on start up and lower
speeds, but throughout the rpm range of the engine.
The slipper clutch works great. It needs to be inspected
periodically, like 400 to 500 hours. I need to fly down to Ronnie
Smith's and let him reshim mine to bring it back to specs if it has
loosened up enough to require the adjustment. Probably have to wait
until after MV before I will have time to get down there.
Hope this explain the difference between the slipper and the
centrifugal clutches.
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
-----------------------------
John,
Who is the Mfg? Rotax? Does it fit INTO the gearbox (sounds that =
way, but--)? Cost? Will it fit the 503/B-box engines?
Tx,
Frank Clyma
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Relapse |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
In a message dated 5/6/2006 9:39:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gtalexander@att.net writes:
there is a brief record of his excursions yesterday in his endeavor
to deal with the problem of high CHTs.
For those who are interested, you can view this record at:
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbplanes/BeaufordCHT
George,
That was a great record you put together. Neato!
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Engine ideas (sleepless night) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Hi Ed, Jerry here. On our Fire Fly 447 we planned for an hour and 30
minutes and then got real serious about getting it on the
ground. Not much reserve. Looks like were both experiencing about
the same fuel burn.
jerb
At 06:30 PM 4/30/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 4/30/2006 10:26:22 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>jbhart@onlyinternet.net writes:
>
>As far as I am concerned the Victor 1 is far
>superior to the 447. It always starts on the first or second turn over,
>idles smoothly at or below 2,000 rpm, is much quieter, and burns from 1.5 to
>1.0 gph less than the 447 at the same cruise speeds.
>
>Mounting the Victor 1+ was not easy, but it has immeasurably improved the
>quality of my flight time.
>
>Have a good trip.
>
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Winchester, IN
>
>Jack,
> I seem to be getting 1 hour and 45 min of flight time on 5
>gallons. Does that sound about the same as you got with your
>447? Seems like I
>went 41 miles at 65 mph and burned about 2 and 3/4 gallons. I was thinking
>the 447 has a safe range of 50 or 60 miles and have a gallon or so
>left. What
>did you consider a safe range with your 447, and now with the victor 1+ with
>minimal headwind?
>
>Ed (firefly #62)
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Relapse |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Do you have EGT's gauges, if so what are they doing?
Just for grins, have you checked the fan belt is ok and have you have
been into the carb recently, i.e. the main jet needle. Has it been
reassembled correctly, its easy to get the needle clip on the wrong
side of the white spring cup. It will run but not properly.
jerb
At 08:05 AM 5/2/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>Kolbers and Kolbettes:
>
>Once again the mighty 447 asserts its total dominance over
>a thoroughly beaten, sniveling and craven Beauford....
>
>Last 5 hours -- Head temps are too high... they both climb steadily at =
>full power, reaching
>400 plus in about 20 seconds... and the fan-end cylinder remains hot, =
>stabilizing
>about 390 when one throttles back to normal (5800) cruise. Rear cylinder =
>comes
>down to about 360.
>
>Data:
>-- Engine had complete top end rebuild at Lockwood 16 hours ago...new =
>pistons
>and rings. Has consistently run hotter since rebuild, but not this hot =
>until
>last five hours.
>-- Swapped plug thermocouples...verified front is hot cylinder and temp =
>reads accurately
>-- Same jetting as always... it previously ran at 340 CHT on these same =
>jets
>and with needle in this same (second) notch
>-- No change in prop loading... turns 6050 static, 6450 wot in flight
>-- Temps remain together up to 4400 rpm...then front takes off as =
>throttle
>is pushed up further...eventually gets to 40 degree difference
>-- Both EGT's remain normal (1020) at WOT... 1090 at cruise.
>-- Plugs are clean and pretty...good color,slightly on light side... no =
>trace
>of excess carbon
>-- Running Amsoil Saber 100 to one, but I'm mixing it at 70 to one
>-- Ran a test tank of Pennzoil AC 50 to 1, no change in problem
>-- All new gaskets throughout top of engine... heads and both manifolds
>are torqued and re-torqued. No evidence of leakage at head or exhaust =
>gaskets.
>--Have not yet pulled exhaust to verify rings are free..that is next =
>step, followed
>by compression check.
>
>I'm thinking air leak. Anyone have any other "hot" ideas?
>Also, is there any reliable way to leak-check the case and crank
>seals without tearing down the engine...?
>
>Beat-up Beauford
>FF#076
>Brandon, FL
>
>
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