Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (pat ladd)
2. 05:37 AM - Re: a stall between 2 fools (pat ladd)
3. 05:39 AM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (Bob Dalton)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: Re: obit (pat ladd)
5. 05:46 AM - Level Aft CG... (David Lehman)
6. 05:50 AM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (N27SB@aol.com)
7. 05:59 AM - Re: weight & balance (robert bean)
8. 06:07 AM - Re: Level Aft CG... (N27SB@aol.com)
9. 06:09 AM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (Don G)
10. 06:20 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 05/07/06 (boyd)
11. 06:59 AM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
12. 07:29 AM - Re: Level Aft CG... (David.Lehman)
13. 07:41 AM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (jimhefner)
14. 08:07 AM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (ghaley@wt.net)
15. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (George E. Thompson)
16. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (robert bean)
17. 09:08 AM - Re: What training do I need? (John Jung)
18. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: obit (Ed Chmielewski)
19. 01:18 PM - Re: Level Aft CG... (Ed Chmielewski)
20. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: obit (John Hauck)
21. 01:50 PM - Bing Carbs (John Hauck)
22. 02:33 PM - Re: Level Aft CG... (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
23. 02:46 PM - Re: Level Aft CG... (David Lehman)
24. 02:51 PM - Re: Level Aft CG... (David.Lehman)
25. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (Larry Cottrell)
26. 03:55 PM - PAPA Fly-In Western Kentucky June 3rd. (Jerry Deckard)
27. 04:59 PM - Re: Level Aft CG... (John Murr)
28. 05:13 PM - Re: Level Aft CG... (David.Lehman)
29. 05:22 PM - Redundancy.. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=99m?= not gonna repeat myself ! (Ralph Hoover)
30. 05:36 PM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (Beauford)
31. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (ray anderson)
32. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Level Aft CG... (N27SB@aol.com)
33. 05:50 PM - Re: Level Aft CG... (N27SB@aol.com)
34. 06:06 PM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (N27SB@AOL.COM)
35. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (Kirk Smith)
36. 06:18 PM - Re: Level Aft CG... (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
37. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Level Aft CG... (John Murr)
38. 06:33 PM - Re: Level Aft CG... (John Murr)
39. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Level Aft CG... (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
40. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: Level Aft CG... (John Murr)
41. 08:14 PM - Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (Larry Cottrell)
42. 10:37 PM - Re: Redundancy.. =?windows-1252?Q?I=99m_not_gonna?= =?windows-1252?Q?_repeat_myself_!?= (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
a sad tale of woe and regret>>
Hi Larry,
you don`t do things by halves over there do you?
Congratulations on getting away with it, AND retrieving your hawk.
Pat
do not archive
--
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 05/05/2006
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: a stall between 2 fools |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
The new design flys perfectly safely>>
Hi Ray,
they seem to be OK and a couple have arrived across the Channel from France
for our major ultralight show. Very, very draggy. I wouldn`t buy one.
I still love the subject title>
Pat
do not archive
--
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 05/05/2006
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| Subject: | landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob Dalton" <wiserguy@comcast.net>
Larry,
I am very sorry to hear of your mishap (plane), but am very glad you are
okay. What a way to start off at your new home, keep your chin up and you'll
get through it all okay. Glad to hear also that your falcon came back that
is amazing, bet it was a great feeling to have that kind of bond. Hope you
are still coming to MV, I enjoyed your company in 2004.
Your friend,
Bob Dalton, CA
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: landing in the Oregon Outback!
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Larry:
Glad you got the bird back!!!
Glad you did not get hurt, other than your finger and blisters.
The FS is repairable.
See you all in a couple weeks.
john h
mkIII
PS: What kind of condition is the airstrip?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Did you get info on Crossfield?
>>
Hi Russ,
I have learned that he apparently broke up in a storm cell driving his
Spamcan. Still haven`t heard what Yeagers comment was that got everyone so
riled.
2 weeks away ? Nice delivery somewhere?
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
--
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 05/05/2006
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
I need the aft CG limit (preferably the distance from datum, fixed point,
etc.) and the leveling points on an early Firestar...
I'm installing floats and I need to engineer the rigging...
Thanx...
David
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
Moral of the story is?
Sorry bout this,
A Bird in the Hand is worth
Two in the Brush
do not archive
Steve B
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: weight & balance |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> Takeoff weight is very close to 1,200 lbs. She flew
> well with the 582, 912ul and now with the 912uls. A great little
> airplane that continues to satisfy my flying requirements. Still
> haven't found anything to replace her with.
>
> john h
> mkIII - 2450+ hours
> 912uls- 1150+ hours
>
Must feel a lot different from mine. My takeoff weight is about 750
now.
Four gallons of fuel will do a lot of flying. Thom Riddle was flying
alongside in his Allegro yesterday and verified that my ASI doesn't work
too well. It goes a bit faster than indicated at cruise which explained
why full throttle appeared to yield only more noise and a nose down
feel.
Also considerable discomfort in even mildly bumpy air.
Now I throttle back for a smoother ride, don't like that choppy feeling.
-Still need to GPS a real number.
-BB do not archive
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 5/9/2006 8:47:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david@davidlehman.net writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
I need the aft CG limit (preferably the distance from datum, fixed point,
etc.) and the leveling points on an early Firestar...
I'm installing floats and I need to engineer the rigging...
Thanx...
David
David,
After flying the Firefly on floats now for a year, Bryan Melborn and I have
found that there may be more critical issues on position of floats on a Kolb
other than CG. We picked a point for what would be about midpoint of the CG
range for the Firefly and placed it about an inch or so forward of the step.
This is common practice for most float installations. On a normal full power
takeoff more back pressure is required than would seem right. At reduced
throttle less back pressure is required. At SnF this year Dick Rayhill commented
that due to the high thrust line it may be better to shift the CG aft in
regard to the step. This would compensate for the high thrust line and increase
takeoff performance.
Unfortunately, it would be difficult to test this on FF #007. On the Firefly
we are building from scratch we will move the CG aft.
Despite this minor tweaking we are very please with the handling of FF#007
on floats. Due to it's light weight and other Kolb traits it handles anything
that you throw at it like a Champ.
Steve Boetto
FF#007
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Larry,
As one who has been down that same road, I Welcome you to the Kolb Bender Club,
and give thanks that you are OK. I Certainly know how , after the adrenalin rush
disappates, the despair that sets in over your bent plane. But Know this,
Kolbs are awful easy to repair, and generally come out more suitable to their
owner after a repair than before. You will undoubtable use this refurbish to closer
assimilate the FireStar to your likeing, adding that small attribute here
or there, a different seat, rocket launcher, a map pocket or any varity of other
small or large customizations that will make you Kolb even more enjoyable
in the future.
Keep your chin up pard !
Don G
--------
Don G
FireFly#098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33602#33602
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 05/07/06 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd" <by0ung@brigham.net>
Time: 06:13:16 AM PST US
From: "GALEN SHIRLEY" <oneaviator@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Minimum pilot weight
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "GALEN SHIRLEY" <oneaviator@msn.com>
Ellery, Thanks for the response. I have done W & B on other planes but I
did not know where the datum point was that was established by Kolb. I got
the window percentages for the Firestar II from another member on the list.
Now I can get busy.
Thanks again
Galen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Galen
It does not matter where the datum is.... but usually kolb uses the leading
edge of the wing,,, it makes for an easier problem to figure the % of wing
cord if figuring cg in % rather than inches from a given point.
Boyd
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Larry,
So sorry to hear of your recent experience but sure glad to hear that
you weren't hurt. WHEW! Thinking about what could have happened is really
scary. Also glad to hear that your falcon came back to the roost. I'm sure
that helped a bit. Anyway, back to building, huh!
AzDave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: landing in the Oregon Outback!
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
>
> I guess its my turn for a sad tale of woe and regret\
>> Larry, Oregon
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David.Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
Thanx Steve...
These are the floats I sent you a picture of awhile back...
I had received this information from a Kitfox owner, "5 to 6 degrees (nose up)
between the fuselage leveling line and the top of the float. I used the door
frame on the kitfox....you need to know where the fuselage is level. This will
make your floats slightly nose down when you are in flight, which is OK. I
do know that if you don't have at least this much difference, you won't be able
to get up on the step. Don't get carried away with this, because your tail
will drag in the water when you try to climb up on the step. 5 to 6 degrees is
the number that works!
Step needs to be 4 to 6 inches AFT of your MAX AFT CG, so that you can rotate around
it, otherwise you can't get the nose up to takeoff position.", and I thought
I'd use that as a starting point...
There's not a lot of information out there on proper float placement...
The floats are new, but I think the rigging is for a two-place Quicksilver, so
it's all "by gosh, by golly" at this stage of the game...
Thanx again...
David
do not archive
--------
http://photobucket.com/albums/e327/N446/
Do not spin this aircraft. If the aircraft does enter a spin it will return to
earth without further attention on the part of the aeronaut.
first handbook issued with the Curtis-Wright flyer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33617#33617
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cimg0804_163.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cimg0803_836.jpg
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Larry, real sorry to hear about your mishap, but am glad to hear you made it out
OK. Sounds like you were lucky to be within half mile of a road to retrieve
your bird without too much trouble. I'll be interested in hearing more about
what you conclude about why the engine suddenly went to idle... was there a throttle
cable failure? I wouldn't think a loose plug cable would cause that so
it will be interesting to hear what you conclude.
Real glad to hear you got your falcon back too... you could have lost 3 birds in
one day!
Happy to hear you didn't get hurt!
Do Not Archive
--------
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33621#33621
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ghaley@wt.net
Larry,
Happy to see that you were OK. Sounds like you did a real good job getting it
down in some pretty rough terrain. Good luck on the repairs and hope to see
you and Karen and the Falcon again some day.
-- Gary Haley, Cypress, TX
Quoting Larry Cottrell <lcottrel@kfalls.net>:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
>
> I guess its my turn for a sad tale of woe and regret. Its gonna be a bit =
> lengthy, so either delete now or settle back.
> My wife and I just closed on a property in the Eastern Oregon Desert. =
> It is something that we both wanted, a 2600 foot airstrip and a cinder =
> block hanger 40x50 for me and quiet, limitless view with a swimming pool =
> and endless areas with no fences, to ride her horse for her. Everything =
> was working out pretty good, We no sooner closed on the property than we =
> were able to sell our house of 28 yrs here in Klamath. We have been =
> making trip after trip taking stuff, mostly farming stuff, to the new =
> house. A six and half hour drive each way. We had just taken a large =
> truck full of stuff and had finished unloading most of it, when I see a =
> falcon fly by, mine! She was really tired of the rides over and back =
> riding in her hood so that she would keep quiet, so she sat outside and =
> pulled and tugged on her jesses and leash until she pulled loose and off =
> to see the wizard she goes. She made one pass at a quail that I was =
> using for a lure and decided that she liked flying much better than =
> food. Then she wouldn't let me get close to her again. I had invested a =
> year of training on this bird and she was showing a lot of promise. It =
> was really sad to loose her now, plus she was hampered by the jesses and =
> swivel still attached to her. (major guilt trip)
> I had taken my Firestar over on a earlier trip, but hadn't flown it =
> since last October, and I really wanted to do an annual before flying. =
> Well I had fired it up and had fresh gas in it, and it had preformed =
> well as usual. So when the winds calmed down, I took off and flew it for =
> about 45 minutes looking at the area around the property. She preformed =
> flawlessly as usual, my first landing was just as good as it was when I =
> flew last October. I was up with the daylight the next morning and it =
> was dead still, so I told my wife where I wanted to look for the bird =
> and took off again. I looked for about 45 minutes, flying in some pretty =
> remote spots and had no luck. My fuel gages were not functioning, ( One =
> of the things that I really wanted to fix) so I decided to go straight =
> cross country since it was only 7 miles that way and 18 by hwy. The =
> country was rising and all of a sudden the engine cut back to idle. =
> First I looked and saw an area in the sage that had only grass, big =
> enough to land. I was sure that I couldn't get it back out of there, but =
> first things first. Now here is really where the decisions get iffy! I =
> checked and CHT's and EGT's were in range. I decided that my throttle =
> cable had broken and it had defaulted to idle. No big deal, I had the =
> spot made with no problem. In behind the spot was a canyon, a creek =
> drainage on the other. I pulled the throttle all the way back and set up =
> to land. I am here to tell you that your engine at idle is pushing you =
> through the air. If it pushes your airplane on the ground, it pushes =
> your airplane especially well in the air. Not enough to clear a canyon, =
> but enough to keep your speed up. For some reason I was distracted =
> enough that I did not cut the engine. At about fifty feet, I could see =
> that the area was littered with some pretty large rocks, basket ball and =
> a bit bigger. I remember thinking, "this is gonna hurt". Nothing to do =
> now but make the best of it, flared at way too fast a speed for a =
> boulder field, and bang, a cloud of dust and I am hanging in my harness =
> with gas dripping out of the vent tube. So I cut the power, released the =
> harness and climbed out. The left landing leg had broken at the wheel =
> axle causing the plane to nose over hard into a boulder that I would =
> have other wise straddled bending the rod that the rudders are attached =
> to, munching my nose cone. The rudder never hit the ground. I checked =
> for injuries and found that my middle finger somehow was sprained =
> because I had been holding on to the throttle. No other cuts or =
> scratches, ego was sprained as well. I went back over the debris field =
> which was only about 15 feet long, and found that a rock small enough to =
> only hit the rim caused the left leg to break, while the other wheel =
> pulled a rock about the size of two basket balls out of the ground with =
> no damage to the leg.
> I hiked out to the hwy "about a mile", and attempted to hitch hike back =
> home. Well I walked four miles with every "honky" speeding up when they =
> saw my thumb out. Apparently I don't look as trustworthy as I used to =
> look. I had developed a couple of good blisters when a Mexican couple =
> stopped and gave me a ride for the last 6 miles. I managed to get there =
> just before the wife called up a search party. I changed shoes and =
> socks, ( always wear good hiking boots when you fly), and we went back =
> and took off the wings and flipped her back over to a much more =
> dignified manner. I found that the front spark plug cap was off. I put =
> it back on the plug and gave it a tug and it easily came off. Throttle =
> cables were just fine. We then carried the wings for about 4 tenths of a =
> mile to the trailer. We will go back with my quad, fasten a wheel to the =
> broken leg, and pull her down the hill, across the creek and back up the =
> hill on the other side. I will have to cut a fence to get her through, =
> but I can repair that, then trailer her home. On my walk home I did see =
> my errant falcon chasing some birds about six miles from home.
> I decided to stay for a few days longer to give her a chance to get =
> hungry and perhaps she would come back home. It rained a bit on Sunday =
> and at dusk the wind died so I pulled out an electric RC plane that I =
> had just gotten to play with. I had just set the thing down on the =
> ground when there was the falcon flying over my head wondering why I =
> wasn't feeding her. I hot footed it back to the house and got my quail =
> and called her down. She had apparently gotten lonesome because she =
> really didn't eat that much. When she was done I put her in the "fenced =
> weathering pen" that I had finally gotten time to put up. She pulled her =
> foot up and was apparently happy to be back. I then went out to the RC =
> plane and found that it had tipped over on its nose, I had apparently =
> nudged the throttle in my run to the house, so the motor was fried. That =
> is how I lost two planes in two days!
> I had intended to recover the plane this fall, but it appears that I =
> will have to bump up the schedule a bit. I am going to put the steel =
> legs and nerf tires on as well. I really don't think there is much =
> damage to the frame, but of course I will not know for sure until =
> stripping every thing. The wings, empennage, and boom is just fine.
>
> Larry, Oregon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George E. Thompson" <eagle1@commspeed.net>
Dang Larry, That's not the kind of news I like to hear. I hate to hear of
anyone going down in there craft for any reason. We Kolbers will all be most
interested in hearing all about it in MV in a couple of weeks. And I am
waiting with bated breath for you to retell your story of your tour of duty
in Alaska with your guard dog. Please refresh your memory on that one for
us.
So glad you weren't hurt, That's the bottom line.
As. Bald Eagle
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:40 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: landing in the Oregon Outback!
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
>
> Larry, real sorry to hear about your mishap, but am glad to hear you made
> it out OK. Sounds like you were lucky to be within half mile of a road to
> retrieve your bird without too much trouble. I'll be interested in
> hearing more about what you conclude about why the engine suddenly went to
> idle... was there a throttle cable failure? I wouldn't think a loose plug
> cable would cause that so it will be interesting to hear what you
> conclude.
>
> Real glad to hear you got your falcon back too... you could have lost 3
> birds in one day!
>
> Happy to hear you didn't get hurt!
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> --------
> Jim Hefner
> Tucson, AZ
> Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33621#33621
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
I think Larry meant the plug wire had come off???
On mine I have automotive wires with the big long boots
molded on. They hold nice and snug, takes some pulling
to remove them.
Curiosity got the better of me so this morning I duct taped my
cheapy Etrex under the compass and went for a local ride.
That AIS isn't too far off. I have to wind the rubber band up
pretty tight to get 70. Nice day though, got to terrorize a couple
tractors.
Very accurate at low speeds, good enough for me.
-BB do not archive
On 9, May 2006, at 10:40 AM, jimhefner wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
>
> Larry, real sorry to hear about your mishap, but am glad to hear you
> made it out OK. Sounds like you were lucky to be within half mile of
> a road to retrieve your bird without too much trouble. I'll be
> interested in hearing more about what you conclude about why the
> engine suddenly went to idle... was there a throttle cable failure? I
> wouldn't think a loose plug cable would cause that so it will be
> interesting to hear what you conclude.
>
> Real glad to hear you got your falcon back too... you could have lost
> 3 birds in one day!
>
> Happy to hear you didn't get hurt!
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> --------
> Jim Hefner
> Tucson, AZ
> Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33621#33621
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: What training do I need? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Jung" <jrjungjr@yahoo.com>
DieselsRcool wrote:
> I have no ultralight time and am looking for opinions from Kolb pilots as to
what kind of a check-out I should work towards.
Larry,
I suggest that you get yourself current. A current pilot should be able to make
the transition. Here are a couple of differences in Kolb type aircraft and what
you are used to:
Kolbs slow down much quicker, and will stall if you pull off the power to make
a flair on landing. Kolbs need so little flair that a lot of pilots say there
is none at all. New Kolb pilots are encouraged to keep power on to a few feet
of the ground. The other thing is that there is not much of a reference for the
attitude or direction that you are used to from the engine cowling. This matters
to some and not so much to others.
--------
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33644#33644
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Pat/All,
Yeager alluded to the fact that Crossfield was always one to take
chances with weather, words to that effect anyway.
It was felt his comments were ill-timed and lacked any compassion
for those left behind. He could've kept his thoughts to himself, wouldn't
have seemed the heartless a$$ he now appears.
We have a local pilot (ex-mil & corporate) who knew them both,
thought the world of Crossfield. Won't comment on Yeager. 'Nuff said.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: obit
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
>
> Did you get info on Crossfield?
>>>
>
> Hi Russ,
>
> I have learned that he apparently broke up in a storm cell driving his
> Spamcan. Still haven`t heard what Yeagers comment was that got everyone
> so
> riled.
>
> 2 weeks away ? Nice delivery somewhere?
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Steve,
What else do you throw at it, besides the Champ?? ;^)
Ed in JXN
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: <N27SB@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Level Aft CG...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
>
>
> David,
>
> (Snip)
Due to it's light weight and other Kolb traits it handles anything
> that you throw at it like a Champ.
>
> Steve Boetto
> FF#007
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
both,
| thought the world of Crossfield. Won't comment on Yeager. 'Nuff
said.
|
| Ed in JXN
Ed/Gang:
Major difference between Crossfield and Yeager, although both were
test pilots. General Yeager flew fighters in three wars: WWII,
Korea, and VN. Crossfield was a civilian.
john h
mkIII
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Started getting the mkIII ready for the cross country flight to MV and
Alvord Desert. Today I found the throttle levers, springs and
stanchions that secure the bottom of the throttle springs, very close
to failure.
After 1122.2 hours, the above parts are trash. Always find stuff to
fix just prior to a departure date. ;-)
Got in contact with Bing Carbs USA. The have the parts in stock.
Decided to replace float bowl gaskets, floats, the above parts plus a
spare pair of throttle springs.
Total bill: $330.00. ;-( That takes the fun out of flying. Pushes
me closer to my antique tractors all the time.
Floats were 31.00 a piece times 4 ea. Pins in the float bowls are
still good, but the pins on the floats are worn considerably on each
side. Luckily we can flip the floats over to take advantage of the
other side of the pin.
Springs were 7.00 ea.
Throttle levers were 30 something dollars.
Brackets for attaching bottom of throttle springs about the same as
the levers.
Gotta have them though. That 7.00 spring is the link between fly and
land. It pulls the throttle to the WOT position. Should one of them
break, it is forced landing time.
Usually, it is the little stuff that gets you. Sure would hate to
break my airplane and myself because of a throttle spring.........
Work stopped immediately until I receive the parts. Then I can
continue to prep the mkIII for MV.
Take care and check those springs.
john h
PS: The newer carbs, and the levers and brackets Bing is sending,
have a small nylon bushing to help prevent the spring from cutting
into the lever and bracket and from cutting themselves.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
20% to 37% is the CG range on a early Firestar 10" to 18 3/4" back from the
leading edge of your wing is where you want to be to stay in the CG range
involved in the same process getting my floats mounted up
Ellery in Early Firestar headed to the lake some time soon
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
Thanx Ellery...
Seems to be a lot of "smoke and mirrors" to determining float placement...
Steve B has already made a lot of progress and I think we can learn from
him...
DVD
do not archive
On 5/9/06, ElleryWeld@aol.com <ElleryWeld@aol.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
>
> 20% to 37% is the CG range on a early Firestar 10" to 18 3/4" back from
> the
> leading edge of your wing is where you want to be to stay in the CG range
>
> involved in the same process getting my floats mounted up
>
> Ellery in Early Firestar headed to the lake some time soon
>
> do not archive
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David.Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
ElleryWeld(at)aol.com wrote:
> 20% to 37% is the CG range on a early Firestar 10" to 18 3/4" back from the
> leading edge of your wing is where you want to be to stay in the CG range
>
> involved in the same process getting my floats mounted up
>
> Ellery in Early Firestar headed to the lake some time soon
>
> do not archive
Ellery...
I forgot to ask, what's the level point(s) on the early Firestar...
Thanx...
DVD
do not archive
--------
http://photobucket.com/albums/e327/N446/
Do not spin this aircraft. If the aircraft does enter a spin it will return to
earth without further attention on the part of the aeronaut.
first handbook issued with the Curtis-Wright flyer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33696#33696
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
Thanks guys for the sympathy, and the kindness that managed to overlook the
mistakes that were made. There were mistakes in judgement that could have
added up to serious problems in any other type of plane. I am a firm
believer that the Kolb is indeed one of the safest planes flying. However I
cannot say anything good about alum gear legs. :-) I was aware of the
possible consequences of each judgement at the time that I made them and
accepted the risk. This time I was on the recieving end and I don't have any
problems with that. I am not having any problems with depression either. I
am anxious to get the time to repair her and do not feel that the plane or
the engine let me down. There was a post not too long ago admonishing people
to secure their spark plug caps, and I intended to do that when I did my
annual. Then the emergency situation (to me) came up and that went out the
window. My judgement, my risk! No regrets!
The only thing that I could find wrong or out of place was the spark plug
cap. If there is 38 HP with two cylinders firing. ( I have a silencer that
is supposed to rob two of the 40 reported HP) When there is only one left
and it is dragging the unfiring cylinder, that is going to be somewhere less
than half the HP left. I have of course been chasing this around in my head
since the landing. In truth I didn't try too hard to try to fly it somewhere
else. In front was definately out as the terrain was rising and there was a
canyon with some pretty steep sides. If I had made a turn to the right, and
I could have limped to a two track that I did not know at the time was
there, I would have been a lot better off. However at the altitude that I
was at, that patch of grass looked really good. If you stick it in the sage
( two foot high) it is guarenteed that you are going to flip it. I have
managed to convince myself that I made the only decision possible, that my
odds of being a lot worse off would have increased with trying to turn,
hoping that I could stay airborne long enough to get to somewhere better.
As for Monument Valley, I am afraid that I am going to have to take a
raincheck this year. I am busier than a one armed paper hanger at the
moment. George remind me to tell you about my pet rabbit that I had in
Alaska. I personally think it is better than the one about the sentry dog.
It is true as well!
The new runway is all ready, or will be by the time MV is over. You all come
visit after ward. N42 40.751 W117 51.673
This will be my last post for a while as the computer will be boxed up after
tonite. I can't even find anyone that supplies internet service there yet.
Larry, Oregon
Message 26
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| Subject: | PAPA Fly-In Western Kentucky June 3rd. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry Deckard" <mustangsally@semo.net>
The Purchase Area Pilots Association is having a Fly-In June 3rd.
At Grow Airpark 5ky3 in western ky east of Paducah. This is for all
types of aircraft. I have attached a link which will give you all the
information in a PDF file. If any one has any questions let me know.
Hope to see you there.
Terry Wilford
recplus@hcis.net
Challenger CWSII
Paducah, KY
http://www.flyincalendar.com/event_detail.cfm?e=1159&m=6&y06
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
I'm 20.7 back from the LE and it seems to fly ok even with engine off?
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElleryWeld@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Level Aft CG...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
>
> 20% to 37% is the CG range on a early Firestar 10" to 18 3/4" back from
> the
> leading edge of your wing is where you want to be to stay in the CG range
>
> involved in the same process getting my floats mounted up
>
> Ellery in Early Firestar headed to the lake some time soon
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David.Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
jdm(at)wideworld.net wrote:
> I'm 20.7 back from the LE and it seems to fly ok even with engine off?---
Thanx JDM...
I'm assuming that's your empty weight CG...
DVD
--------
http://photobucket.com/albums/e327/N446/
Do not spin this aircraft. If the aircraft does enter a spin it will return to
earth without further attention on the part of the aeronaut.
first handbook issued with the Curtis-Wright flyer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33717#33717
Message 29
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| Subject: | Redundancy.. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=99m?= not gonna repeat myself |
!
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Last Saturday, I was taking my shinny new DRE -2000 John Jung specials (communication
equipment) into the air for some landing time. They worked great and I
discovered Ohio farm field hospitality up close and uncomfortable. I was taking
off from my instructors field (1000 feet long) with my instructor aboard. As
we climbed we lost a tad bit of air speed, not unnatural for 430 # of student
and instructor and 60 degree temps. But then a surprise presented itself to
us rather rudely. The engine went to idle! Looked to my left (the plane is a Challenger
two place) and saw the throttle in its proper location, full open. As
was appropriate, my instructor took control. We were not more than 300 feet
above ground level and the landing needed to be now. There were several farm
fields below us and he grabbed the closest one, unfortunately at a little bit
of an angle with the plowed rows. Keeping trike front wheel up as long as possible,
he brought it down as smoothly as could be done. The field was rough but
we were no worse for wear nor was the Challenger, thank God! This ride just
gave me more interest to go flying not less, so I am ok with the landing. Now
if I am ever faced with this choice or need, I will do it knowing what I will
be getting into. Recently plowed corn fields are not fun. But I'm sure better
than standing stalks!
Now you probably want to know what this has to do with redundancy! Well here goes.
The 503 DIDC and duel fuel supplied motor had a laps of NO or very low fuel.
One cylinder didnt act funny, both were even. One carb would have allowed the
engine to run at higher rpms but rough. Two fuel lines; one from the existing
mechanical fuel pump and one from an added electric fuel pump were plumbed
into the system with appropriate check valves and Ts . Apparently one check
valve stuck and allowed fuel to backflow into the other fuel pump or there was
an air leak between the hand pump choke (enricher from my old Harley days) .
In an effort to be sure of fuel redundancy a new problem came about. I know that
there are two schools that apply here and that both have been successful. School
one says keep it simple Stupid. The Rotax people know what their doing
and if it were needed, they would have made a second fuel pump part of the package,
even though a snowmobile stopping isnt the end of someone's life. The other
school applies the its better to be safe than sorry. After all, they have
two carbs, two mags, two plugs, they would be better to have two fuel pumps.
Anyone else experience this or anything like it? If so how did you correct the
problem and does anyone have a specific suggestion to routing the fuel lines from
both the mechanical pump and an electric fuel pump. I have read on this site
where many use their electric fuel pump taking off and then shut it off for
normal flight. I am about to re hose and add an electric fuel pump. I would very
much appreciate any suggestions of success that you Kolbers have had.
Sucking air here in Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33718#33718
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Steve B:
That was so bad, it was GOOD.... "two in the brush....?"
Hats-off to a Master...!!!!
Way to go, Larry.... Got all 3 of your birds back where you can deal
with 'em...
Helluva story.... Glad you and the live bird are OK...
My Respects and Admiration, Sir...
beauford
Brandon, FL
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <N27SB@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: landing in the Oregon Outback!
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
>
> Moral of the story is?
>
>
> Sorry bout this,
>
> A Bird in the Hand is worth
>
> Two in the Brush
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Steve B
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson <rsanoa@yahoo.com>
Larry,
Your story took my memory back about 68 or 69 years when a similar
incident happened to me. I had just learned to fly about a year before and had
bought one of the Curtiss Wright Jr. planes my instructor had. ( either $225
or $250.) It was a two place pusher with pretty much the same configuration as
a Kolb. Had a 39.5 ft. wingspan and a 45 hp 3 cyl. Szekley motor. Had mica
plugs but it was at the height of the great depression and when I had to replace
them, I fudged and replaced with conventional ceramic auto plugs. Worked fine
until one day while playing around, I got quite a bit of altitude when I arrived
back at my home field, a fairly short dirt strip. Being a newly hatched
pilot, I closed the throttle and spiraled down, never clearing the motor, arrived
over the approach end a little high but thought I could make it. As the 39
ft wing refused to settle, I saw I had to go around, and opened the throttle
suddenly. The ceramic plugs had cooled off and the
sudden burst of power blew the ceramic section out of four plugs instantly (dual
ign.). I was floating along by then about 10 feet high over the far end of
the strip. The old Szekley was running fine on one cylinder, going pop - chug,
chug, pop-chug, chug. Every thing in front of me was scrub brush about 5 - 6
feet tall and I was at 10 feet. The Szekley kept running with pop - chug, chug
for about a quarter mile when I came to a cotton field that had been picked,
but the rows were parallel to my flight, and at 10 feet I didn't dare make a
right hand turn. I closed the throttle, now wide open, and let it settle in.
I bounced across a couple of rows and then the wheels caught a furrow and I started
up on it's nose. It went totally vertical with me staring at the ground
a couple of feet in front of my face. It hung there vertical with me pushing
back against the seat as hard as I could, balanced there for about 4 - 5 seconds
and plopped back down on the tail skid (no
wheel). I went into town and bought 4 more auto plugs, with help pushed it up
to the end of the field, turned down the rows, cranked up and flew it out and
back to the field. Just a tiny bit of paint off the nose cone. Never again let
the motor cool off on a long descent. No more troubles.
Not exactly the same as your incident but close. Anyhow, now at 88 years, I am
nostalgic about my good old days at 17 - 18 years old with no FAA. Just Dept.
of Commerce who only had one inspector covering the states of S.C., N.C. and
part of Va. Yes this is long, but bear with and old, old man.
Ray
UltraStar--TN
Do not archive
Larry Cottrell <lcottrel@kfalls.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell"
Thanks guys for the sympathy, and the kindness that managed to overlook the
mistakes that were made. There were mistakes in judgement that could have
added up to serious problems in any other type of plane. I am a firm
believer that the Kolb is indeed one of the safest planes flying. However I
cannot say anything good about alum gear legs. :-) I was aware of the
possible consequences of each judgement at the time that I made them and
accepted the risk. This time I was on the recieving end and I don't have any
problems with that. I am not having any problems with depression either. I
am anxious to get the time to repair her and do not feel that the plane or
the engine let me down. There was a post not too long ago admonishing people
to secure their spark plug caps, and I intended to do that when I did my
annual. Then the emergency situation (to me) came up and that went out the
window. My judgement, my risk! No regrets!
The only thing that I could find wrong or out of place was the spark plug
cap. If there is 38 HP with two cylinders firing. ( I have a silencer that
is supposed to rob two of the 40 reported HP) When there is only one left
and it is dragging the unfiring cylinder, that is going to be somewhere less
than half the HP left. I have of course been chasing this around in my head
since the landing. In truth I didn't try too hard to try to fly it somewhere
else. In front was definately out as the terrain was rising and there was a
canyon with some pretty steep sides. If I had made a turn to the right, and
I could have limped to a two track that I did not know at the time was
there, I would have been a lot better off. However at the altitude that I
was at, that patch of grass looked really good. If you stick it in the sage
( two foot high) it is guarenteed that you are going to flip it. I have
managed to convince myself that I made the only decision possible, that my
odds of being a lot worse off would have increased with trying to turn,
hoping that I could stay airborne long enough to get to somewhere better.
As for Monument Valley, I am afraid that I am going to have to take a
raincheck this year. I am busier than a one armed paper hanger at the
moment. George remind me to tell you about my pet rabbit that I had in
Alaska. I personally think it is better than the one about the sentry dog.
It is true as well!
The new runway is all ready, or will be by the time MV is over. You all come
visit after ward. N42 40.751 W117 51.673
This will be my last post for a while as the computer will be boxed up after
tonite. I can't even find anyone that supplies internet service there yet.
Larry, Oregon
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 5/9/2006 10:35:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david@davidlehman.net writes:
"5 to 6 degrees (nose up) between the fuselage leveling line and the top of
the float. I used the door frame on the kitfox....you need to know where the
fuselage is level. This will make your floats slightly nose down when you
are in flight, which is OK. I do know that if you don't have at least this
much difference, you won't be able to get up on the step. Don't get carried
away with this, because your tail will drag in the water when you try to
climb up on the step. 5 to 6 degrees is the number that works!
Step needs to be 4 to 6 inches AFT of your MAX AFT CG,
David, 6 degrees sounds about right on the kolb but your aft CG figure
sounds really FAR back.
steve
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 5/9/2006 4:19:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
edchmiel@mindspring.com writes:
Steve,
What else do you throw at it, besides the Champ?? ;^)
Ed in JXN
Do not archive.
Sometimes afew foul words when it wont land perfectly smooth every time (-:
No really, it is the most forgiving plane I have flown, my UL skills just
need to get better
steve
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
In a message dated 5/9/2006 8:36:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
beauford@tampabay.rr.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Steve B:
That was so bad, it was GOOD.... "two in the brush....?"
Hats-off to a Master...!!!!
Beauford,
I really felt bad about that one, it was a 10 on the AAARRG scale, but had I
not posted you would have beat me to it. I know you were thinkin about it.
Steve
do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Va. Yes this is long, but bear with and old, old man.
> Ray
Thanks for the good story Ray. As far as I'm concerned I'd listen all day
to those old stories.
Do not archive
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
Really did you do the weight and balance with the plane in the flying
attitude
Ellery
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
No that's with me in it and no fuel.
>
>
> jdm(at)wideworld.net wrote:
>> I'm 20.7 back from the LE and it seems to fly ok even with engine off?---
>
>
> Thanx JDM...
>
> I'm assuming that's your empty weight CG...
>
> DVD
>
> --------
> http://photobucket.com/albums/e327/N446/
>
> Do not spin this aircraft. If the aircraft does enter a spin it will
> return to earth without further attention on the part of the aeronaut.
>
> first handbook issued with the Curtis-Wright flyer.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33717#33717
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
If you are asking me, yes.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElleryWeld@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Level Aft CG...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
>
> Really did you do the weight and balance with the plane in the flying
> attitude
>
> Ellery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
Are you sure thats where your CG is that really sounds to far aft Have you
ever played with stalls with it (which I would not recomend at this point) if
you havent already, after I added the full swivel tail wheel I didnt feel
comfortable trying any stalls it just felt tail heavy but I did a new weight &
balance and I am only 1 1/2" from my aft CG location
my weight &balance is with Full fuel 10 gallons and me in it
Ellery
do not archive
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
I did some power off stall. It breaks clean with no tendency to drop a
wing. I know it seems far back. I should probably double-check my numbers.
Also I have to bungie the stick back to keep the nose up while cruising.
Even at idle it needs slight back pressure. It doesn't feel tail-heavy,
which is why I need to do it again and check my numbers
----- Original Message -----
From: <ElleryWeld@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Level Aft CG...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
>
> Are you sure thats where your CG is that really sounds to far aft Have
> you
> ever played with stalls with it (which I would not recomend at this point)
> if
> you havent already, after I added the full swivel tail wheel I didnt feel
> comfortable trying any stalls it just felt tail heavy but I did a new
> weight &
> balance and I am only 1 1/2" from my aft CG location
> my weight &balance is with Full fuel 10 gallons and me in it
>
> Ellery
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
Guys,
I enjoyed it myself, nothing like a good gagging pun!
Larry, Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: <N27SB@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: landing in the Oregon Outback!
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 5/9/2006 8:36:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> beauford@tampabay.rr.com writes:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Steve B:
> That was so bad, it was GOOD.... "two in the brush....?"
> Hats-off to a Master...!!!!
>
>
> Beauford,
>
> I really felt bad about that one, it was a 10 on the AAARRG scale, but had
> I
> not posted you would have beat me to it. I know you were thinkin about
> it.
>
>
> Steve
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Redundancy.. =?windows-1252?Q?I=99m_not_gonna?= =?windows-1252?Q?_repeat_myself_!?= |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
I have a 3 PSI Facet electric pump, mounted below the bottom of the tank
which feeds straight into the Mikuni pulse pump. I turn it on to start
and once the engine is running, turn it off for the taxi out and run up
to make sure the Mikuni is working, then turn it back on prior to take
off and leave it on. No reason to turn it off, because leaving it on
doesn't hurt a thing, but not leaving it on might just let the Mikuni
die/582 die at precisely the wrong moment... After I land, I can turn it
off again for the taxi back and see if the Mikuni is still alive, but at
that point, who cares?
I realize that some people turn the electric pump on for takeoff and
then turn it back off, but to me that is like turning off one mag - Why?
What are you saving it for? Just in case the other one breaks? So that
you can then turn it on to calm your atrial fibrillation and hope for a
restart?? A new Facet electric pump costs less than 40 bucks and it's
mean time to failure is longer than any of us will live, so turn it on
and leave it on!
When I first flew to Oshkosh, I had a system like you describe in your
post. I then met John Hauck, discussed my fuel system with him, and he
was of the opinion that simpler is better. Made sense, so I eliminated
all the extra plumbing and now run dual pumps all the time. One less
thing to worry about. Oh yeah, ditch the squeeze bulb, the electric pump
takes care of the prime.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Ralph Hoover wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>
> Last Saturday, I was taking my shinny new DRE -2000 John Jung specials (communication
equipment) into the air for some landing time. They worked great and
I discovered Ohio farm field hospitality up close and uncomfortable. I was taking
off from my instructors field (1000 feet long) with my instructor aboard.
As we climbed we lost a tad bit of air speed, not unnatural for 430 # of student
and instructor and 60 degree temps. But then a surprise presented itself to
us rather rudely. The engine went to idle! Looked to my left (the plane is a
Challenger two place) and saw the throttle in its proper location, full open.
As was appropriate, my instructor took control. We were not more than 300 feet
above ground level and the landing needed to be now. There were several farm
fields below us and he grabbed the closest one, unfortunately at a little bit
of an angle with the plowed rows. Keeping trike front wheel up as long as possible,
he brought it down as smoothly as could be do!
> ne. The field was rough but we were no worse for wear nor was the Challenger,
thank God! This ride just gave me more interest to go flying not less, so I
am ok with the landing. Now if I am ever faced with this choice or need, I will
do it knowing what I will be getting into. Recently plowed corn fields are not
fun. But I'm sure better than standing stalks!
>
> Now you probably want to know what this has to do with redundancy! Well here
goes. The 503 DIDC and duel fuel supplied motor had a laps of NO or very low fuel.
One cylinder didnt act funny, both were even. One carb would have allowed
the engine to run at higher rpms but rough. Two fuel lines; one from the existing
mechanical fuel pump and one from an added electric fuel pump were plumbed
into the system with appropriate check valves and Ts . Apparently one check
valve stuck and allowed fuel to backflow into the other fuel pump or there was
an air leak between the hand pump choke (enricher from my old Harley days)
. In an effort to be sure of fuel redundancy a new problem came about. I know
that there are two schools that apply here and that both have been successful.
School one says keep it simple Stupid. The Rotax people know what their doing
and if it were needed, they would have made a second fuel pump part of the package,
even though a snowmobile stopping isnt the end!
> of someone's life. The other school applies the its better to be safe than
sorry. After all, they have two carbs, two mags, two plugs, they would be better
to have two fuel pumps.
>
> Anyone else experience this or anything like it? If so how did you correct the
problem and does anyone have a specific suggestion to routing the fuel lines
from both the mechanical pump and an electric fuel pump. I have read on this
site where many use their electric fuel pump taking off and then shut it off for
normal flight. I am about to re hose and add an electric fuel pump. I would
very much appreciate any suggestions of success that you Kolbers have had.
>
> Sucking air here in Ohio Ralph
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33718#33718
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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