Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:00 AM - =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Re:__Redundancy.._I=99m_not_gonna_rep?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?eat_myself_!?= (robert bean)
2. 05:37 AM - Re: Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (David Lehman)
3. 06:18 AM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Redundancy.._ITm_not_gonna_repeat_myself_!?= (Wayne T. McCullough)
4. 07:27 AM - Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! (Blumax008@aol.com)
5. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: Level Aft CG... (David Lehman)
6. 07:58 AM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Redundancy.._ITm_not_gonna_repeat_myself_!?= (pat ladd)
7. 09:01 AM - Weather to fly-previous link (Tom O'Hara)
8. 09:15 AM - ASOS to try 215-538-7610--UKT (Tom O'Hara)
9. 11:07 AM - Re: Weather to fly-previous link (Ralph Hoover)
10. 11:25 AM - Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! (Ralph Hoover)
11. 11:56 AM - Re: Redundancy (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
12. 12:01 PM - Re: Redundancy (Robert Noyer)
13. 12:20 PM - Re: Redundancy (Ralph Hoover)
14. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: Redundancy (Robert Laird)
15. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Redundancy (John Hauck)
16. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Redundancy (Robert Laird)
17. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Redundancy (John Hauck)
18. 03:28 PM - Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! (Richard Girard)
19. 03:34 PM - Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! (David Lehman)
20. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! (Larry Bourne)
21. 05:06 PM - Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
22. 05:21 PM - Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! (Ralph Hoover)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: WINDOWS-1252?Q?Re:_Kolb-List:_Redundancy.._I=99m_not_gonna_rep?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?eat_myself_!?= |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
A single low pressure Facet is all that keeps my Kolb aloft.
.........so far, so good.
-BB, MkIIIc, suzuki, single carb, 65" powerfin, 45hrs.
(no throttle cables, no hot box, no squeeze bulb, no BRS,
no EIS, no GPS, no radio, single brake handle, one switch on the panel,
no circuit breakers [inline auto fuses]
utter simplicity
do not archive
On 10, May 2006, at 1:35 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>
> I have a 3 PSI Facet electric pump, mounted below the bottom of the
> tank
> which feeds straight into the Mikuni pulse pump. I turn it on to start
> and once the engine is running, turn it off for the taxi out and run up
> to make sure the Mikuni is working, then turn it back on prior to take
> off and leave it on. No reason to turn it off, because leaving it on
> doesn't hurt a thing, but not leaving it on might just let the Mikuni
> die/582 die at precisely the wrong moment... After I land, I can turn
> it
> off again for the taxi back and see if the Mikuni is still alive, but
> at
> that point, who cares?
>
> I realize that some people turn the electric pump on for takeoff and
> then turn it back off, but to me that is like turning off one mag -
> Why?
> What are you saving it for? Just in case the other one breaks? So that
> you can then turn it on to calm your atrial fibrillation and hope for a
> restart?? A new Facet electric pump costs less than 40 bucks and it's
> mean time to failure is longer than any of us will live, so turn it on
> and leave it on!
>
> When I first flew to Oshkosh, I had a system like you describe in your
> post. I then met John Hauck, discussed my fuel system with him, and he
> was of the opinion that simpler is better. Made sense, so I eliminated
> all the extra plumbing and now run dual pumps all the time. One less
> thing to worry about. Oh yeah, ditch the squeeze bulb, the electric
> pump
> takes care of the prime.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> Ralph Hoover wrote:
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover"
>> <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>>
>> Last Saturday, I was taking my shinny new DRE -2000 John Jung
>> specials (communication equipment) into the air for some landing
>> time. They worked great and I discovered Ohio farm field hospitality
>> up close and uncomfortable. I was taking off from my instructors
>> field (1000 feet long) with my instructor aboard. As we climbed we
>> lost a tad bit of air speed, not unnatural for 430 # of student and
>> instructor and 60 degree temps. But then a surprise presented itself
>> to us rather rudely. The engine went to idle! Looked to my left (the
>> plane is a Challenger two place) and saw the throttle in its proper
>> location, full open. As was appropriate, my instructor took control.
>> We were not more than 300 feet above ground level and the landing
>> needed to be now. There were several farm fields below us and he
>> grabbed the closest one, unfortunately at a little bit of an angle
>> with the plowed rows. Keeping trike front wheel up as long as
>> possible, he brought it down as smoothly as could be !
> do!
>> ne. The field was rough but we were no worse for wear nor was the
>> Challenger, thank God! This ride just gave me more interest to go
>> flying not less, so I am ok with the landing. Now if I am ever faced
>> with this choice or need, I will do it knowing what I will be getting
>> into. Recently plowed corn fields are not fun. But I'm sure better
>> than standing stalks!
>>
>> Now you probably want to know what this has to do with redundancy!
>> Well here goes. The 503 DIDC and duel fuel supplied motor had a laps
>> of NO or very low fuel. One cylinder didnt act funny, both were even.
>> One carb would have allowed the engine to run at higher rpms but
>> rough. Two fuel lines; one from the existing mechanical fuel pump
>> and one from an added electric fuel pump were plumbed into the system
>> with appropriate check valves and Ts . Apparently one check valve
>> stuck and allowed fuel to backflow into the other fuel pump or there
>> was an air leak between the hand pump choke (enricher from my old
>> Harley days) . In an effort to be sure of fuel redundancy a new
>> problem came about. I know that there are two schools that apply here
>> and that both have been successful. School one says keep it simple
>> Stupid. The Rotax people know what their doing and if it were needed,
>> they would have made a second fuel pump part of the package, even
>> though a snowmobile stopping isnt the e!
> nd!
>> of someone's life. The other school applies the its better to be
>> safe than sorry. After all, they have two carbs, two mags, two plugs,
>> they would be better to have two fuel pumps.
>>
>> Anyone else experience this or anything like it? If so how did you
>> correct the problem and does anyone have a specific suggestion to
>> routing the fuel lines from both the mechanical pump and an electric
>> fuel pump. I have read on this site where many use their electric
>> fuel pump taking off and then shut it off for normal flight. I am
>> about to re hose and add an electric fuel pump. I would very much
>> appreciate any suggestions of success that you Kolbers have had.
>>
>> Sucking air here in Ohio Ralph
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33718#33718
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
Ditto Ray...
David
do not archive
On 5/9/06, Kirk Smith <snuffy@usol.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>
> Va. Yes this is long, but bear with and old, old man.
> > Ray
>
> Thanks for the good story Ray. As far as I'm concerned I'd listen all da=
y
> to those old stories.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kolb-List:_Redundancy.._ITm_not_gonna_repeat_myself_!?= |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Wayne T. McCullough" <blackbird754@alltel.net>
Kolbers,
I run an electric fuel pump in-line to my pulse pump also....no
primer...However, if you use a high volume fuel pump make sure that no more
than 5 psi (use with a regulator) gets to the carbs......if you don't , you
will overpressure the float bowls......
Wayne McCullough
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert bean" <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself !
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> A single low pressure Facet is all that keeps my Kolb aloft.
> .........so far, so good.
> -BB, MkIIIc, suzuki, single carb, 65" powerfin, 45hrs.
> (no throttle cables, no hot box, no squeeze bulb, no BRS,
> no EIS, no GPS, no radio, single brake handle, one switch on the panel,
> no circuit breakers [inline auto fuses]
> utter simplicity
> do not archive
>
> On 10, May 2006, at 1:35 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>>
>> I have a 3 PSI Facet electric pump, mounted below the bottom of the
>> tank
>> which feeds straight into the Mikuni pulse pump. I turn it on to start
>> and once the engine is running, turn it off for the taxi out and run up
>> to make sure the Mikuni is working, then turn it back on prior to take
>> off and leave it on. No reason to turn it off, because leaving it on
>> doesn't hurt a thing, but not leaving it on might just let the Mikuni
>> die/582 die at precisely the wrong moment... After I land, I can turn
>> it
>> off again for the taxi back and see if the Mikuni is still alive, but
>> at
>> that point, who cares?
>>
>> I realize that some people turn the electric pump on for takeoff and
>> then turn it back off, but to me that is like turning off one mag -
>> Why?
>> What are you saving it for? Just in case the other one breaks? So that
>> you can then turn it on to calm your atrial fibrillation and hope for a
>> restart?? A new Facet electric pump costs less than 40 bucks and it's
>> mean time to failure is longer than any of us will live, so turn it on
>> and leave it on!
>>
>> When I first flew to Oshkosh, I had a system like you describe in your
>> post. I then met John Hauck, discussed my fuel system with him, and he
>> was of the opinion that simpler is better. Made sense, so I eliminated
>> all the extra plumbing and now run dual pumps all the time. One less
>> thing to worry about. Oh yeah, ditch the squeeze bulb, the electric
>> pump
>> takes care of the prime.
>>
>> Richard Pike
>> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>>
>> Ralph Hoover wrote:
>>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover"
>>> <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>>>
>>> Last Saturday, I was taking my shinny new DRE -2000 John Jung
>>> specials (communication equipment) into the air for some landing
>>> time. They worked great and I discovered Ohio farm field hospitality
>>> up close and uncomfortable. I was taking off from my instructors
>>> field (1000 feet long) with my instructor aboard. As we climbed we
>>> lost a tad bit of air speed, not unnatural for 430 # of student and
>>> instructor and 60 degree temps. But then a surprise presented itself
>>> to us rather rudely. The engine went to idle! Looked to my left (the
>>> plane is a Challenger two place) and saw the throttle in its proper
>>> location, full open. As was appropriate, my instructor took control.
>>> We were not more than 300 feet above ground level and the landing
>>> needed to be now. There were several farm fields below us and he
>>> grabbed the closest one, unfortunately at a little bit of an angle
>>> with the plowed rows. Keeping trike front wheel up as long as
>>> possible, he brought it down as smoothly as could be !
>> do!
>>> ne. The field was rough but we were no worse for wear nor was the
>>> Challenger, thank God! This ride just gave me more interest to go
>>> flying not less, so I am ok with the landing. Now if I am ever faced
>>> with this choice or need, I will do it knowing what I will be getting
>>> into. Recently plowed corn fields are not fun. But I'm sure better
>>> than standing stalks!
>>>
>>> Now you probably want to know what this has to do with redundancy!
>>> Well here goes. The 503 DIDC and duel fuel supplied motor had a laps
>>> of NO or very low fuel. One cylinder didnt act funny, both were even.
>>> One carb would have allowed the engine to run at higher rpms but
>>> rough. Two fuel lines; one from the existing mechanical fuel pump
>>> and one from an added electric fuel pump were plumbed into the system
>>> with appropriate check valves and Ts . Apparently one check valve
>>> stuck and allowed fuel to backflow into the other fuel pump or there
>>> was an air leak between the hand pump choke (enricher from my old
>>> Harley days) . In an effort to be sure of fuel redundancy a new
>>> problem came about. I know that there are two schools that apply here
>>> and that both have been successful. School one says keep it simple
>>> Stupid. The Rotax people know what their doing and if it were needed,
>>> they would have made a second fuel pump part of the package, even
>>> though a snowmobile stopping isnt the e!
>> nd!
>>> of someone's life. The other school applies the its better to be
>>> safe than sorry. After all, they have two carbs, two mags, two plugs,
>>> they would be better to have two fuel pumps.
>>>
>>> Anyone else experience this or anything like it? If so how did you
>>> correct the problem and does anyone have a specific suggestion to
>>> routing the fuel lines from both the mechanical pump and an electric
>>> fuel pump. I have read on this site where many use their electric
>>> fuel pump taking off and then shut it off for normal flight. I am
>>> about to re hose and add an electric fuel pump. I would very much
>>> appreciate any suggestions of success that you Kolbers have had.
>>>
>>> Sucking air here in Ohio Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33718#33718
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Blumax008@aol.com
In a message dated 5/10/2006 9:19:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
blackbird754@alltel.net writes:
I run an electric fuel pump in-line to my pulse pump also
Hey Look Guys...I know each of us has their own set of circumstances &
reasons...but...I've been flying these contraptions since '79 ((I also fly a lot),
probably longer than some of you have aged. Using that as a basis, I can
tell you that the simpler you keep your particular situation...the easier life
is going to be in regards to keeping things running...and flying.
Just as an example, I've never used anything more than a pulse fuel pump,
have never had one fail. Right now, none (none) of my instruments are in working
condition on my Trike except the Hobbs, whose 503 just recently went over
1,300 hours since new. Zero major overhauls. Two or three top overhauls. Why do
I not have working engine or flight instruments? Don't need 'em. The sounds
tell me everything I need to know. Learn from your sight & hearing. Don't
depend on falible instruments to tell you something that is probably erroneous
in the first place.
>From my years of experience working with these engines & aircraft, I would
like to humbly offer this advice.
1) Flying is dangerous, no matter what you stick on the damn thing, if it's
your time to go...you're gonna' go. Learned that at the University of S.E.
Asia too! :)
2) Keep it simple. If it's easy to put on, it'll be easy to take off.
I've had guys show up here with more crap on their motors & airframes that I
honestly couldn't see how the things could takeoff, not to mention how long
it would take to do a top overhaul...it would probably have taken an entire
days work just to remove all the crap.
I was Scuba diving off St. Croix one day with an instructor & about 5
students. One student had more crap hanging off of him, cameras, watches, depth
gauges, strobe equipment, two regulators, a spare emergency tank etc. Anyway,
the guy was actually starting to drown under the load of crap, his bouyancy
vest would not support him, he got tired of using his fins to stay afloat & the
instructor had to go save his life & bring him back to shore.
I was a Navy trained salvage diver in the Big Vagina, we had a tank,
regulator, mask, weight belt & a pair of PX sneakers. It worked. It was simple!
Keep
it simple!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Level Aft CG... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
Thanx Steve...
Lot's of numbers floating (pun intended) around for placement...
Ellery gave me some numbers that he's using and I found this site with
discussion regarding placement:
http://www.ultralightfloats.com/instructions.htm ...
I forgot to measure the width of my floats before I came to the office this
morning, but I'm guessing they're around 18" wide...
It's supposed to be 90 degrees here in "Lovely" Fresno today and the water'=
s
inviting, I'm getting real anxious to float the Firestar...
DVD
do not archive
On 5/9/06, N27SB@aol.com <N27SB@aol.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: N27SB@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 5/9/2006 10:35:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> david@davidlehman.net writes:
>
> "5 to 6 degrees (nose up) between the fuselage leveling line and the top
> of
> the float. I used the door frame on the kitfox....you need to know wher=
e
> the
> fuselage is level. This will make your floats slightly nose down
> when you
> are in flight, which is OK. I do know that if you don't have at least
> this
> much difference, you won't be able to get up on the step. Don't get
> carried
> away with this, because your tail will drag in the water when you try to
> climb up on the step. 5 to 6 degrees is the number that works!
>
> Step needs to be 4 to 6 inches AFT of your MAX AFT CG,
>
>
> David, 6 degrees sounds about right on the kolb but your aft CG figure
> sounds really FAR back.
>
> steve
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kolb-List:_Redundancy.._ITm_not_gonna_repeat_myself_!?= |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Hi Richard
re extra pump in your Challenger.
Why? I always start mine with the pull rope. Just a couple of squeezes on
the bulb during your DI. Finish your walk round, switch on, ensure throttle
is closed, put chokes on, yell `clear Prop` and pull the string.
Close the chokes,blip the throttle to ensure you have the proper response.
Clamber in and fly away.
Why complicate things? The engine has two carbs and two plugs to make it
perform better. Two pumps achieves nothing but extra weight.If you are
talking about two plugs per pot, dual ignition and stuff then that is too
exotic for me, I only have single.
The only time I wished I had something doubled up is when the drive belt
shed its teeth.
Cheers
Pat
do not archive
--
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/335 - Release Date: 09/05/2006
Message 7
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| Subject: | Weather to fly-previous link |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom O'Hara" <tohara@alphagraphics.com>
A previous asked questions regarding weather decision making. I don't know if
all of the readers are aware of the ASOS (Automated Surface Observation System)
or AWOS (Automated Weather Observation System) that you tax dollars have paid
for. These are REAL time reporting systems that you can access through aircraft
radio or the TELEPHONE. They are updated about every minute and report--
wind,gusts, ceiling/cloud cover, visibility, temp/dew point, altimeter setting,
gusts and other airport info. And, it is surprising at how many reporting
stations there are. One facility is at a single paved strip of 3200 feet with
less than 75 aircraft. I do not have one at the strip that I use (scheduled
for next year) so I call three stations-5miles N, 20 miles west, and 15miles south.
From experience I have found that RDG will have 2-4kts less wind than the
other two-located in a valley, that UKT will calm out quicker in the evening-
airport is not near any large metro area, and that ABE will calm out last--
large metro area that creates its own instability.
Also get weather briefings at 800-WX-BRIEF. This automatically calls the nearest
briefing station to the calling phone number. You can get live or recorded
weather info.
Phone numbers for AWOS and ASOS can be found in FAA Airport/Facility Directories
or probably the FBO. Hope this helps someone. Use your tax dollars!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33826#33826
Message 8
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| Subject: | ASOS to try 215-538-7610--UKT |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom O'Hara" <tohara@alphagraphics.com>
Just incase you want to listen.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33829#33829
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Weather to fly-previous link |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Tom, Thank you . This does help. I was aware of the 1-800 WXBRIEF, but not the
other. And your right. We should use the services our tax dollars are spent on.
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33850#33850
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Well, Pat, Your back.
Pat, first thing that you have to understand is that were "yanks" and here in yank
land we like excess. Thats why advertising is working so well.
Ask yourself this question:
Where else in the world would or could a human being buy a Cadillac pick-up truck?
And why? I mean, if you want to remodel a room, hauling the 2x4s in the back
of your Caddy is like the cats meow!
But seriously folks, two cylinders, two carbs, twin plugs, two mags. Why not two
fuel supplies. Just to be sure. But in the case I outlined, it may have been
the reason for the problem. Both fuel pumps worked then and still do now but
alas, no fuel.
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33852#33852
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
<< does anyone have a specific suggestion to routing the fuel lines from
both the mechanical pump and an electric fuel pump. I have read on this site
where many use their electric fuel pump taking off and then shut it off for
normal flight. I am about to re hose and add an electric fuel pump.
Sucking air here in Ohio Ralph >>
Ralph -
The Rotax on my Kolb runs with two fuel pumps: A mechanical one, and a Facet
electric fuel pump. I plumbed my fuel pumps in series. No primer bulb.
The Facet is designed to allow unobstructed passage of fuel when it is
either off or failed. That allows me to turn it on or off at my convenience
(such as during takeoff and landing). Have had zero problems with this
setup since new.
Dennis Kirby
Mark-III, 912, 47 hrs
New Mexico
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
The ultimate in redundancy is/was two seats!
regards,
Bob N.
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
and a Facet electric fuel pump. I plumbed my fuel pumps in series. No primer bulb.
The Facet is designed to allow unobstructed passage of fuel when it is either
off or failed.
Dennis, Thank you. That is without a doubt what I will do. Now do you mount the
electric pump close to the fuel tank (gulp..sparks), or is it mounted up along
the frame of the cage so that you can see it?
Next, which model number pump is it and is it in the low (3 psi) range as previously
described by others in order to not overcome the float bowles?
Thanks all for your assistance.
She'a gushin now ralph of Ohio
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33862#33862
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
Dennis --
The Facet isn't fail-safe. I had one where the internal check valve
got stuck. When it was on and pumping, everything was fine. But when
I turned it off, it created enough of a restriction that, under WOT,
it couldn't fill the bowl fast enough. That was responsible for the
one and only engine-out I've ever had. (I forgot to turn it on during
take-off, and the engine cut out at about 200 feet. Luckily, I landed
straight ahead without incident.)
It took me quite a while to diagnose the problem, helped in large part
to a fuel flow meter I had. Replacing the Facet fixed the problem, of
course. And now I don't forget to turn it on!
-- Robert
On 5/10/06, Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
> << does anyone have a specific suggestion to routing the fuel lines from
> both the mechanical pump and an electric fuel pump. I have read on this site
> where many use their electric fuel pump taking off and then shut it off for
> normal flight. I am about to re hose and add an electric fuel pump.
> Sucking air here in Ohio Ralph >>
>
> Ralph -
>
> The Rotax on my Kolb runs with two fuel pumps: A mechanical one, and a Facet
> electric fuel pump. I plumbed my fuel pumps in series. No primer bulb.
> The Facet is designed to allow unobstructed passage of fuel when it is
> either off or failed. That allows me to turn it on or off at my convenience
> (such as during takeoff and landing). Have had zero problems with this
> setup since new.
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Mark-III, 912, 47 hrs
> New Mexico
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
And now I don't forget to turn it on!
|
| -- Robert
Seems like that would be a good case for doing a full power runup
prior to takeoff with the electric pump shut down.
Would have to hold WOT long enough until you were satisfied the engine
driven pump was going to pump enough fuel to keep the engine happy.
My experience with 2 and 4 stroke Rotax engines indicates the both
shut down right now if they get a "little" starved for fuel.
I have been using a Facet and engine driven pump set up since 1987, on
my Firestar. Seems to be working well.
Primer bulbs were always a source of fuel delivery problems in the old
days. Maybe they have improved them since then. That's the first
thing not to be installed on my airplane.
I have had several ignition related engine failures with the Cuyuna
ULII02 and the point ignition 447. Lost the plug cap off a spark plug
on inverted engine, had an NGK BR8EV lose an electrode, and had plug
fouling twice. All four times put me in the forced landing mode and
on the ground. Dual ignition would have prevented the forced landings
until I could get to a suitable area to land and see what my problem
was.
Once I tried a JC Whitney "el cheapo" Facet look alike pump on the FS.
Was on one of my flights up to the Flight Farm in Monterey, NY. The
electric pump went belly up during the trip. While in the process of
cutting toilet paper and approximately 100 feet, the Mikuni engine
driven pump bit the dust. Very lucky to be in a position to push the
nose over and land in a nice hay field. Come to find out, the rebuild
kit I purchased from LEAF was a no name aftermarket kit. The diaphram
with its little flapper valves lasted about 30 minutes. I built the
pump at the Flight Farm. I pulled the old Mikuni diaphram out of the
trash can and reinstalled it. On my return home I contacted LEAF to
let them know of my disappointment in their inferior parts. They gave
me my money back, but did not seem too concerned about the problem.
No telling how many of us UL nuts out there were flying around with
these things. heehee
1500 and black as night outside. So dark the security light is
burning bright. Really erie feeling to know it is still the middle of
the afternoon, look up from the computer and see a totally black
window. So far the major thunderstorms are just north of my location.
Hunkered down at hauck's holler, alabama,
john h
mkIII
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
On 5/10/06, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> And now I don't forget to turn it on!
>
> Seems like that would be a good case for doing a full power runup
> prior to takeoff with the electric pump shut down.
>
> Would have to hold WOT long enough until you were satisfied the engine
> driven pump was going to pump enough fuel to keep the engine happy.
I've yet to find any brakes that would hold a 912 or 912S for a WOT
full power runup for that long, but maybe, with a large amount of
money, they can be found. (Probably put me on my nose! :-) Prior
to this event, I had detected a much lower fuel flow rate than nominal
when at a high cruise speed. That was my first clue.
-- Robert
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| full power runup for that long, but maybe, with a large amount of
| money, they can be found. (Probably put me on my nose! :-) Prior
| to this event, I had detected a much lower fuel flow rate than
nominal
| when at a high cruise speed. That was my first clue.
|
| -- Robert
The brakes are out there. MATCO makes a good set with 3/4" axles
w/tapered roller bearings (that are adjustable like real wheels), and
enough braking power to hold the 912uls. However, main gear located
in the stock position will put you on your nose.
john h
mkIII
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
As long as the requirement is for redundancy of flight critical components,
where should we hang that second engine?
On 5/10/06, Ralph Hoover <flht99reh@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.co=
m
> >
>
> Well, Pat, Your back.
>
> Pat, first thing that you have to understand is that were "yanks" and her=
e
> in yank land we like excess. Thats why advertising is working so well.
>
> Ask yourself this question:
>
> Where else in the world would or could a human being buy a Cadillac
> pick-up truck? And why? I mean, if you want to remodel a room, hauling th=
e
> 2x4s in the back of your Caddy is like the cats meow!
>
> But seriously folks, two cylinders, two carbs, twin plugs, two mags. Why
> not two fuel supplies. Just to be sure. But in the case I outlined, it m=
ay
> have been the reason for the problem. Both fuel pumps worked then and sti=
ll
> do now but alas, no fuel.
>
> Ohio Ralph
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p33852#33852
>
>
=
=
=
=
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Pining for a home on the Range"
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
Or second pilot?...
On 5/10/06, Richard Girard <jindoguy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
>
> As long as the requirement is for redundancy of flight critical
> components,
> where should we hang that second engine?
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: landing in the Oregon Outback! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Me three, Ray. Keep 'em coming. Do not Archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: landing in the Oregon Outback!
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
>
> Ditto Ray...
>
> David
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On 5/9/06, Kirk Smith <snuffy@usol.com> wrote:
>>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>>
>> Va. Yes this is long, but bear with and old, old man.
>> > Ray
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ElleryWeld@aol.com
if your making a dual list dont forgot the two engines Ralph "snip" "snip"
Ellery
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Redundancy.. ITm not gonna repeat myself ! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
The second engine will go right below the extra pair of back-up wings and redundant
cableing.
Now tha I added all that stuff. The plane taxies real well but it doesn't seem
to want to lift. More motors, more carbs, more fuel!
Really ready for the nice young men in their little white coats to cart me off
to OHIO cause I'm ralph!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33912#33912
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