---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/16/06: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:14 AM - Re: Response to Will Uribe's ? about tail wheel troubles after M (jimhefner) 2. 07:01 AM - Stats for MV trip w/a 503 (TheWanderingWench) 3. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Tie Down Suggestions (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 4. 08:32 AM - Re: full enclosures (Don G) 5. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Tie Down Suggestions (Jim Baker) 6. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Tie Down Suggestions (Larry Cottrell) 7. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Tie Down Suggestions and other uses (Herb Gayheart) 8. 10:34 AM - Re: Kolbs on Open Trailers (GeoR38@aol.com) 9. 02:08 PM - Re: Kolbs on Open Trailers (planecrazzzy) 10. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: full enclosures (Jack B. Hart) 11. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: Kolbs on Open Trailers (pete haggerty) 12. 04:06 PM - Re: Stats for MV trip w/a 503 (Larry Bourne) 13. 05:33 PM - Re: Rotax 377 (Larry Rice) 14. 07:19 PM - Re: Tie Down Suggestions (David Paule) 15. 07:50 PM - trip (robert bean) 16. 07:51 PM - pic (robert bean) 17. 08:04 PM - Re: pic (Larry Bourne) 18. 08:32 PM - Re: pic (Ed Chmielewski) 19. 08:41 PM - 377 Crankshaft (frank & margie) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Response to Will Uribe's ? about tail wheel troubles after M From: "jimhefner" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" Thanks for sharing your adventure with us Artie! Do you have any stats on your total trip? Think I recall you or Doug saying you had flown around 1300 miles in 5 days when you were at MV so I was curious if you had any info on total trip days, flight hours, miles traveled, fuel burned, etc. Pretty impressive cross country trip in a 447 and 503 on any type of plane! Sharing that might help others here venture out further with their low end Kolbs. :) Glad to see you here! -------- Jim Hefner Tucson, AZ Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750 Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41399#41399 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:04 AM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: Kolb-List: Stats for MV trip w/a 503 --> Kolb-List message posted by: TheWanderingWench Stats for the MV trip: Maxair Drifter with Rotax 503 DCDI - HEAVILY loaded! :>) Total trip days: 17 (Includes 3 days of non-flying) Flight hours: 52 Miles traveled: 3027 (includes "sightseeing miles" @ MV) Gallons gas: 196 (averaged 3.77 gph) Arty --- jimhefner wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" > > > Thanks for sharing your adventure with us Arty! > > Do you have any stats on your total trip? Think I > recall you or Doug saying you had flown around 1300 > miles in 5 days when you were at MV so I was curious > if you had any info on total trip days, flight > hours, miles traveled, fuel burned, etc. Pretty > impressive cross country trip in a 447 and 503 on > any type of plane! Sharing that might help others > here venture out further with their low end Kolbs. > :) > > Glad to see you here! > > -------- > Jim Hefner > Tucson, AZ > Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750 > Do Not Archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41399#41399 > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" Helen Keller "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:40 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tie Down Suggestions --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" I ran across the link for the titanium tie downs it is http://www.airtimemfg.com/ Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "russ kinne" Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 5:23 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tie Down Suggestions > --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne > > David > FWIW, I disagree with your 1-d) -- I suggest you put the rope through ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:17 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: full enclosures From: "Don G" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don G" Rob, IT has been my experience that firefly built to conform to the part 103 requirements by "Calculation" will still exceed the top speed limitation with a 447 unless you specifically underprop the aircraft. I can assure you that if you build it with no streamlineing and no enclosure and stick a prop that will limit the engine to around 6000 to 6200 or so static rpm that it will readily fly fast enough to exceed the part 103 top speed. So the "calculations" are not that accurate anyway. The question really is, do you want it to comply by calculation, or by real world performance numbers. If you build it with all the streamlineing you can..a full enclosure, and brakes and even heavy and so on, adjust the prop to make the best rpm at 6500 or so WOT straight and level, it will run out around 85 to 90 mph.(447/60 inch) IF you dont fool with any extra drag reduction like leg fairings and struts and such...and build it without a full enclosure, you will have an airplane that will be uncomfortable to fly at anything other than a low rpm cruise unless you have a really strong neck. ( and still fly too fast for compliance) The laid back seating position makes your neck hurt when holding your head against the wind. Of all the things I did to my FlagFly the full enclosure is the last thing I would ever remove due to simple pilot comfort. IN reference to the ramp check question, the only time I ever was, was back in 1977, in Oklahoma, Flying a Spartan School of Aeronautics 150, while on a cross country flight during private pilot training. I believe the FAA agent simply waited for any plane to land with the school logo on the tail to check the students paperwork, which was always up to snuff because the school always kept it up. I have always thought that they were just "flexing" their muscles to intimidate, maybe make a student believe that this was the norm for the future. Never have been checked since....lessee...wow...almost 30 years..egad! Feeling old all of a sudden! Don -------- Don G FireFly#098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41421#41421 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:26 AM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tie Down Suggestions --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: > I ran across the link for the titanium tie downs it is > http://www.airtimemfg.com/ > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc I'd be intersted to see if a magnet will stick to these items..... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:04 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tie Down Suggestions --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" The answer to that question is no! I have both items and they would not stick together. Larry, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Baker" Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 10:10 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tie Down Suggestions > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > > X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: > >> I ran across the link for the titanium tie downs it is >> http://www.airtimemfg.com/ >> >> Rick Neilsen >> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > > I'd be intersted to see if a magnet will stick to these items..... > > Jim Baker > 580.788.2779 > Elmore City, OK > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tie Down Suggestions and other uses From: Herb Gayheart --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb Gayheart Look at it this way guys... as we get older and more parts in our bodies belong to someone else or to the salvage yard... we can send the titanium in and have it made into artificial Knees.. :-) Herb do not archive On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:10:28 -0500 "Jim Baker" writes: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > > X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: > > > I ran across the link for the titanium tie downs it is > > http://www.airtimemfg.com/ > > > > Rick Neilsen > > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > > I'd be intersted to see if a magnet will stick to these items..... > > Jim Baker > 580.788.2779 > Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:19 AM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolbs on Open Trailers In a message dated 6/14/2006 3:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil writes: << The problem was on an open trailer the wind moving across a backwards Kolb beats up the tail feathers. I guess it is the reason that seagulls always stand Beak to the wind. Steve B. >> Steve, - You are absolutely correct: Beak to the wind. If done right, our Kolbs travel just fine for long distances on open trailers. I trailered my Mark-3 to and from Monument Valley last May, 7 hours driving time each way. My trailer is a simple, one axle flatbed, 22 feet long. My Kolb is secured pointing forward on the trailer. As long as you secure everything (i.e., flaps & ailerons not flapping in the wind, wings & tail boom supported, etc.), these Kolbs can endure prolonged open trailer transporting without problems. Another benefit of open trailering: You get LOTS of looks from the other motorists! (They know a fun thing when they see it.) But ... I think I want to FLY my plane there next year! Dennis Kirby N93DK, "Magic Bike" Cedar Crest, NM My 2 cents: I dragged my firestar to The Villages Fla with my son's ford pickup pullin a 2 wheel boat trailer modified (by me and my son) last year during the horrible hurricane season and naturally selected the timing DURING one of them....Jean, I think....you know, the one that was soooooo big that it covered the entire state!!!...... and was slow moving to boot! Lotsa side pressure on this open trailer and my poor stressed out plane..... haven't flown it yet. I also was proud of my creation with an electric hoist for $50 from Harbor Freight....works great btw, and built up platforms on the back by all weather wood.....my son LOVES to work in wood...and the plane was dragged up ramps backwards to a hinged stanchion which when one pulled the cord, would come up and cradle the boom on its carpet, and hold it up off the tail wheel. The backwards wings were noproblem at all as they were covered with a nonpenetrating $12 canvas like tarp and sewed masculinely on one side. Masculine means that the stitches were at least 3/4 inch with heavy thread....cord was more like it. Only took an hour to sew it and it totally closed air off from entering the area of the wingtips and tail. MORE CREATIVITY!.........YEAH! But I would never do it again as the Hurricane was soooooo unrelenting that the stresses on the airframe had to be gross, as the one wheel left the pavement 3 times with the crosswinds hitting the wings. The rest of the Firestar was wrapped with plastic wrap btw. The new thing here is the cross wind forces,,,,, they were unhealthy at least!! George Randolph Firestar driver from the Villages, Fl ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:32 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolbs on Open Trailers From: "planecrazzzy" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" Firestar on Trailer... 22 ft plane on a 10 ft Trailer... It pulls great, no problems.... Gotta Fly... Mike in MN / N381PM -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41490#41490 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00214_103.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00215_938.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00216_614.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:11 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: full enclosures --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" At 08:29 AM 6/16/06 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don G" > >Rob, >IT has been my experience that firefly built to conform to the part 103 requirements by "Calculation" will still exceed the top speed limitation with a 447 unless you specifically underprop the aircraft. I can assure you that if you build it with no streamlineing and no enclosure and stick a prop that will limit the engine to around 6000 to 6200 or so static rpm that it will readily fly fast enough to exceed the part 103 top speed. So the "calculations" are not that accurate anyway. The question really is, do you want it to comply by calculation, or by real world performance numbers. > ............................. FireFlyers The neat thing about the calculations is that they allow you to provide definitive proof that your FireFly meets all AC 103-7 requirements to be called an ultralight. And better yet a document copy made up of AC 103-7 Appendix 1, 2, 3 & 4 is considered to be sufficient proof that a FireFly meets all requirments. As long as your FireFly's weight is under 254 pounds, fuel tank is no more than five gallons, and your computed drag factor is not less than 11.8 and your engine hp no more than 38, you can fly it as fast as it will go and it is legal. You can make changes where they are not specifically prohibited. For example, strut drag does not say that struts have to be round, therefore you can streamline them etc. You can feather all trailing edges of the wings and tail feathers. If you make changes that reduce the computed drag factor to less than 11.8, engine hp has to be reduced to make ultralight requirements. If you have not seen the document, an example can be seen at: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/fireflylegal.html Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:05 PM PST US From: "pete haggerty" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolbs on Open Trailers --> Kolb-List message posted by: "pete haggerty" Do you have a picture of how you have the Boom Tube supported. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "planecrazzzy" Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolbs on Open Trailers > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" > > Firestar on Trailer... 22 ft plane on a 10 ft Trailer... > > It pulls great, no problems.... > > Gotta Fly... > Mike in MN / N381PM > > -------- > . > . > . > . > . > Do Not Archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41490#41490 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00214_103.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00215_938.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00216_614.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:43 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Stats for MV trip w/a 503 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I hafta join those who spoke of enjoying your description of your trip. It was great. Thanks. Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheWanderingWench" Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:00 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Stats for MV trip w/a 503 > --> Kolb-List message posted by: TheWanderingWench > > > Stats for the MV trip: > Maxair Drifter with Rotax 503 DCDI - HEAVILY loaded! > :>) > > Total trip days: 17 (Includes 3 days of non-flying) > Flight hours: 52 > Miles traveled: 3027 (includes "sightseeing miles" @ > MV) > Gallons gas: 196 (averaged 3.77 gph) > > > Arty > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:15 PM PST US From: Larry Rice Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 377 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Larry Rice Guys, Thanks for the crank information. I was really stumped about what I was going to do! Peace, Lary the micro mong guy PS. I was off list for quite a while, what with moving to Urbana, Ohio, but I'm back. -- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:02 PM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tie Down Suggestions --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" Thanks for the thoughtful comments on my tiedown suggestions. I'll comment on some of them now. Before I do, I want to reiterate the most important point - don't permit any slack or any stretch in the tiedowns, because it's aircraft motion in strong winds that destroys airplanes. 1. John Hauck suggested that I "Use the bottom tang on the upper lift strut tang to weld a sturdy ring" on my Firestar. Mine already has a tiedown ring as an eyebolt for one of the strut through-bolts. I was unsure if that was adequate and so far, haven't used it (I've kept the plane out of the wind, actually). 2. TheWanderingWench asked where she could get similar tiedown hardware and what the bracket was. The bracket is a piece of round aluminum bar, about two and a half inches in diameter and about an inch thick. There are two perpendicular diametrical holes for the stakes, offset so the stakes don't touch, and a hole parallel to the axis but offset so it'll clear the stakes, for the rope. The stakes are home made, with the titanium purchased from Titanium and Alloys. I don't have any contact information now for them. 3. George T. Alexander, Jr. hoped that I meant that the stakes were about 18 inches long, rather than 18 feet long, as I'd written. Yes, George, they are indeed the shorter length, thanks for checking. 4. Jim Baker suggested: "Why not just replace the lift strut pin with an AN44 or AN45 eye bolt? Same tensile strength. Carabiner or other similar attachment can be used to connect to the eye hole....." My Firestar has something like that but with a big hefty welded ring in each. I don't know where the builder got them. 5. Russ Kinne reminded me to "put the rope through the ring AND around the strut...." Russ, I do this. Honestly! I just forgot to mention it. But I do it for exactly the reasons you mention. I've noticed that Cessna tiedown rings can take more load than Piper ones, though, at least as evidenced by airplanes flipped over. 6. However, Russ also recommended that the elevator be held forward to keep the tail down in tailwinds. It doesn't seem to matter much, at least with production general aviation planes, as long as the controls are locked. For the Firestar, it's probably good advice, because it's best to keep the plane from ever moving during a windstorm, and the horizontal tail's stronger for a down load than an up load. Thanks again for the great comments! Dave Paule Boulder, CO ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:20 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: trip --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Group, today I ventured a record distance (for me) in the Kolb. A journey down into the hills south of here with two other planes to fellow Kolber Bob Erb's camp at 2000'+. The good part was the trip down, superb. -and the camp fit for a king. Very interesting runway too with a sort of a hammock shape. You get a good run down one side and try to outclimb the other. The bad part, and I hesitate to even mention it after the epic travels of Arty, was the return ride. The wind had picked up briskly combined with a lot of thermals and rollers off the BIG hills. Struggling for uniform speed and altitude cost at least 30% more fuel than normal. It ran well but I encountered my first aileron flutter with the many rapid attitude changes. Lotsa throttle changes. I have the balance rods but they didn't help much sitting on a shelf in the shop. No damage done except to my nerves. pic generously reduced by BigLar: (I hope) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:27 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: pic Drat! I lost it somehow..... ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:31 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: pic --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Too cooooool, Bob. What a beautiful spot. Lar. Do not Archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bean" Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:50 PM Subject: Kolb-List: pic > Drat! I lost it somehow..... > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:07 PM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: pic --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" I agree. Green with envy here! Ed in JXN MkII/503 Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 11:03 PM > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > Too cooooool, Bob. What a beautiful spot. Lar. > Do not Archive. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robert bean" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:50 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: pic > > >> Drat! I lost it somehow..... >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:19 PM PST US From: "frank & margie" Subject: Kolb-List: 377 Crankshaft Ref; --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike A 447 crank will work. I have an old LEAF catalog, it shows the 377 and 447 use the same crank. The 996-333 is the current part number for the 447 with point ignition. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Larry Rice wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Larry Rice > > Folks, > > I have a 377 that needs a crankshaft, which our friends in Austria no > longer make. I notice that the 503 has the same stroke. Will a 503 crank > work? > > Larry the micromong guy ------------------------------------------------------------------ Larry/Richard, I think most 377's will only accept the old style 377/447 crank. The currently available 447 crank only fits newer s/n engines, from what I've heard. Call Lockwood/Green Sky/South Mississippi/etc; those folks can tell you for sure. Have your engine s/n available when you call. Frank Clyma