Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:19 AM - FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair (Jack B. Hart)
2. 08:32 AM - Re: Gasoline (Ethanol, actually) (David Paule)
3. 09:04 AM - Alcohol (Jim Hauck)
4. 09:04 AM - Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair ()
5. 11:04 AM - Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair (John Hauck)
6. 11:37 AM - Re: Alcohol (Ron)
7. 01:26 PM - Re: Alcohol (Vince Hallam)
8. 01:37 PM - Beeg one (Bob Noyer)
9. 01:56 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair (planecrazzzy)
10. 02:17 PM - Re: Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair (Jack B. Hart)
11. 02:37 PM - Re: Beeg one (Ed Chmielewski)
12. 03:37 PM - Re: Alcohol (John Hauck)
13. 04:29 PM - E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. (Ron)
14. 04:31 PM - E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. (Ron)
15. 04:50 PM - Re: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. (Ron)
16. 05:46 PM - Re: Beeg one (russ kinne)
17. 05:51 PM - Re: Alcohol (russ kinne)
18. 06:59 PM - Re: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. (Robert Laird)
19. 07:07 PM - Re: Beeg one (Larry Bourne)
20. 08:10 PM - Re: home from MV (GeoR38@aol.com)
21. 08:36 PM - Re: Alcohol (Ron)
Message 1
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| Subject: | FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
FireFlyer's,
After 200+ hours the FireFly rear wing spar swivel joints started to sound
like tinny sleigh bells. Earlier I had shimmed them with thin brass shim
stock. Some of the shims stayed in place and others did not. As a result,
all the shaking and quaking at the rear of the fuselage slowly wore the pin
OD's and the mating hole ID's.
I purchased some inexpensive Oilite flanged sleeve bushings from McMaster
Carr, drilled out the holes, inserted the bearings, and new slightly longer
pins and removed all the play from the swivel joints. Also, I bushed the
stud that passes through the cage clevis. I used a washer and two nested
"O" rings so that I could put the joint into compression but still let it
pivot.
Before the repair, the trailing edge of the wing would move over an eight of
an inch. After the repair, there is no movement. The nice thing about this
repair is that if play shows up again, all one has to do is replace the
bushings. There should be little to no wear on the steel surfaces.
If you would like to see how it was done, it can be seen at:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly128.html
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Gasoline (Ethanol, actually) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
You'd also need a means of pumping more air into the engine, allowing for it
to expand, and getting more exhaust out of it.
After arranging those things, it wouldn't be the same engine.
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
Jim Baker wrote:
....you'd need to bump the flow rates up and the result would be an engine
that is just as powerful, if not more so...runs cooler, too, at equivalent
horsepower because of the greater latent heat of evaporation of ethanol
(marginal improvements for the 10-15% stuff). You need to think in terms of
stoichiometry, not energy per unit mass.
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
Y'all;
Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol.
To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol needs
a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline.
Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the cylinder
walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant.
You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it.
I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100% Alky.
So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so.
Jim Hauck
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <jeepacro@cox.net>
I can't seem to open up the pictures of the repair of swivel joint. Can you send
me some pictures? Thanks in advance
--
Rob.
---- "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
> FireFlyer's,
>
> After 200+ hours the FireFly rear wing spar swivel joints started to sound
> like tinny sleigh bells. Earlier I had shimmed them with thin brass shim
> stock. Some of the shims stayed in place and others did not. As a result,
> all the shaking and quaking at the rear of the fuselage slowly wore the pin
> OD's and the mating hole ID's.
>
> I purchased some inexpensive Oilite flanged sleeve bushings from McMaster
> Carr, drilled out the holes, inserted the bearings, and new slightly longer
> pins and removed all the play from the swivel joints. Also, I bushed the
> stud that passes through the cage clevis. I used a washer and two nested
> "O" rings so that I could put the joint into compression but still let it
> pivot.
>
> Before the repair, the trailing edge of the wing would move over an eight of
> an inch. After the repair, there is no movement. The nice thing about this
> repair is that if play shows up again, all one has to do is replace the
> bushings. There should be little to no wear on the steel surfaces.
>
> If you would like to see how it was done, it can be seen at:
>
> http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly128.html
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
to sound
| like tinny sleigh bells. Earlier I had shimmed them with thin brass
shim
| stock. Some of the shims stayed in place and others did not. As a
result,
| all the shaking and quaking at the rear of the fuselage slowly wore
the pin
| OD's and the mating hole ID's.
|
| I purchased some inexpensive Oilite flanged sleeve bushings from
McMaster
| Carr, drilled out the holes, inserted the bearings, and new slightly
longer
| pins and removed all the play from the swivel joints. Also, I
bushed the
| stud that passes through the cage clevis. I used a washer and two
nested
| "O" rings so that I could put the joint into compression but still
let it
| pivot.
|
| Before the repair, the trailing edge of the wing would move over an
eight of
| an inch. After the repair, there is no movement. The nice thing
about this
| repair is that if play shows up again, all one has to do is replace
the
| bushings. There should be little to no wear on the steel surfaces.
|
| If you would like to see how it was done, it can be seen at:
|
| http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly128.html
|
| Jack B. Hart FF004
| Winchester, IN
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that
Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and
the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while
burning Ethanol.
This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of
aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar
of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report
the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test
with it.
Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which I
will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks.
I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be
damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes.
( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid us
of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American
farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here.
Ron
Arizona
================================
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
Y'all;
Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol.
To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol
needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline.
Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the
cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant.
You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it.
I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100%
Alky.
So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so.
Jim Hauck
Message 7
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" <vince@devonwindmills.co.uk>
Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities have said
about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol permitted at all
Vince Hallam
please phone rather than email for best results!
07941 313141
01803 316191
www.devonwindmills.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
>
> John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that
> Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and
> the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while
> burning Ethanol.
> This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of
> aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar
> of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report
> the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test
> with it.
> Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which
> I
> will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks.
> I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be
> damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes.
> ( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid
> us
> of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American
> farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here.
>
> Ron
> Arizona
>
> ================================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>
> Y'all;
>
> Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol.
>
> To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as
> alcohol
> needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline.
>
> Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the
> cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant.
>
> You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it.
>
> I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100%
> Alky.
>
> So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so.
>
> Jim Hauck
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
Any RC-ers on the list: ck this out:
Actually has 8 real turbines at about $1500 each!
Took over 2 years to build. It has a wing span of about 22 feet.
Requires multiple pilots controlling individual remotes, as there are
so many
things to control.
Think they were nervous during the maiden flight?
Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines!
$12,000 just
for the engines !
Check out the movie link below to see the first 7 minute flight and the
landing. AMAZING !!
http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv
regards,
Bob N.
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hi Jack,
Nice work and nice illustrations...
Question....Aren't you supposed to have Bolts on those ears instead of
Pins....?
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41670#41670
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 01:55 PM 6/19/06 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi Jack,
> Nice work and nice illustrations...
>
> Question....Aren't you supposed to have Bolts on those ears instead of
> Pins....?
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Mike in MN
Mike,
The loads are pure shear loads so there is no need for bolts. Pins for
a given holding distance are lighter than bolts.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Hi Bob/All,
That B-52 was later wrecked in what may have been a (believe it or
not!) downwind-turn incident preceding an airshow. Quite a fire ensued.
Tragic to lose such a nice example.
For Mr. Fackler: When is the next 'Thumb' tour? (There,
Kolb-related).
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 4:34 PM
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
>
> Any RC-ers on the list: ck this out:
>
> Actually has 8 real turbines at about $1500 each!
>
> Took over 2 years to build. It has a wing span of about 22 feet.
>
> Requires multiple pilots controlling individual remotes, as there are so
> many
> things to control.
>
> Think they were nervous during the maiden flight?
>
> Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines! $12,000
> just
> for the engines !
>
> Check out the movie link below to see the first 7 minute flight and the
> landing. AMAZING !!
>
> http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv
>
>
> regards,
> Bob N.
> http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
>
> do not archive
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
|
| John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting
that
| Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard
mogas, and
Ron:
I haven't made any posts ref alcohol.
Bro Jim did though.
john h
mkIII
Message 13
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| Subject: | E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net>
As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol
washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any
such danger.
My test is about as scientific as can be, in other words repeatable
by anyone following my procedures.
two aluminum tabs .025 identical.
Two Dixie cups clear plastic.
Two separate types of oil tested, Mobil-1 5W-30, and Philips X/C
20-50 aviation oil.
Drained 100LL avgas into Dixie cup.
Poured E-85 into Dixie cup.
Applied AvOil to both alum tabs.
Inserted one tab one into Avgas, and one into E-85.
Lifted both tabs out after 30 seconds.
Tab into E-85 had most of the oil still on it except that which by
force of gravity drained to bottom of Dixie cup.
Tab into avgas was clean of oil. rubbed tab a bit to see if there is
any oil film on it, could not tell any difference, from the bare alum
and previously coated parts.
Repeated experiment a couple of times including swishing the tabs in
the fuels. In all cases the tab in the Avgas was washed clean and the
tab into the E-85 still had oil on it.
The test with the Mobil-1 had the same results with the difference
that the Mobil-1 was even harder to wash off with the Ethanol.
In fact I had to wash the Ethanol tab in the Avefuel to clean it so
it would not stain the box I keep my scrap alum in.
Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way
longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal.
I am still checking on rubber parts. I put an O-ring #14 into the
ethanol jar, also a piece of Fuel injection hose, and a silicon
gasket. Wrote Jun-19-06 on it and put it aside.
Ron
Arizona
=================================================
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" <vince@devonwindmills.co.uk>
>
>Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities
>have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol
>permitted at all
>Vince Hallam
>please phone rather than email for best results!
>07941 313141
>01803 316191
>www.devonwindmills.co.uk
>----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
>>
>>John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that
>>Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and
>>the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while
>>burning Ethanol.
>>This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of
>>aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar
>>of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report
>>the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test
>>with it.
>>Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which I
>>will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks.
>>I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be
>>damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes.
>>( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid us
>>of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American
>>farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here.
>>
>>Ron
>>Arizona
>>
>>================================
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck
>>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM
>>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Y'all;
>>
>>Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol.
>>
>>To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol
>>needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline.
>>
>>Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the
>>cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant.
>>
>>You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it.
>>
>>I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100%
>>Alky.
>>
>>So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so.
>>
>>Jim Hauck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net>
As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol
washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any
such danger.
My test is about as scientific as can be, in other words repeatable
by anyone following my procedures.
two aluminum tabs .025 identical.
Two Dixie cups clear plastic.
Two separate types of oil tested, Mobil-1 5W-30, and Philips X/C
20-50 aviation oil.
Drained 100LL avgas into Dixie cup.
Poured E-85 into Dixie cup.
Applied AvOil to both alum tabs.
Inserted one tab one into Avgas, and one into E-85.
Lifted both tabs out after 30 seconds.
Tab into E-85 had most of the oil still on it except that which by
force of gravity drained to bottom of Dixie cup.
Tab into avgas was clean of oil. rubbed tab a bit to see if there is
any oil film on it, could not tell any difference, from the bare alum
and previously coated parts.
Repeated experiment a couple of times including swishing the tabs in
the fuels. In all cases the tab in the Avgas was washed clean and the
tab into the E-85 still had oil on it.
The test with the Mobil-1 had the same results with the difference
that the Mobil-1 was even harder to wash off with the Ethanol.
In fact I had to wash the Ethanol tab in the Avefuel to clean it so
it would not stain the box I keep my scrap alum in.
Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way
longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal.
I am still checking on rubber parts. I put an O-ring #14 into the
ethanol jar, also a piece of Fuel injection hose, and a silicon
gasket. Wrote Jun-19-06 on it and put it aside.
Ron
Arizona
=================================================
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" <vince@devonwindmills.co.uk>
>
>Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities
>have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol
>permitted at all
>Vince Hallam
>please phone rather than email for best results!
>07941 313141
>01803 316191
>www.devonwindmills.co.uk
>----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
>>
>>John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that
>>Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and
>>the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while
>>burning Ethanol.
>>This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of
>>aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar
>>of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report
>>the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test
>>with it.
>>Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which I
>>will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks.
>>I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be
>>damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes.
>>( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid us
>>of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American
>>farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here.
>>
>>Ron
>>Arizona
>>
>>================================
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck
>>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM
>>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Y'all;
>>
>>Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol.
>>
>>To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol
>>needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline.
>>
>>Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the
>>cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant.
>>
>>You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it.
>>
>>I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100%
>>Alky.
>>
>>So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so.
>>
>>Jim Hauck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net>
I need to add that the temperature in the hanger was near 100f.
If someone wants to repeat the experiment and he is in the arctic
then you will have oil remaining on both tabs with the 30 second
immersion test, but likely not with the swishing test. In the
combustion chamber the temps are higher.
>
>Ron
>Arizona
>
>=================================================
>
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Bob
It all came thru as weird symbols!
On Jun 19, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Bob Noyer wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
>
> Any RC-ers on the list: ck this out:
>
> Actually has 8 real turbines at about $1500 each!
>
> Took over 2 years to build. It has a wing span of about 22 feet.
>
> Requires multiple pilots controlling individual remotes, as there
> are so many
> things to control.
>
> Think they were nervous during the maiden flight?
>
> Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines!
> $12,000 just
> for the engines !
>
> Check out the movie link below to see the first 7 minute flight and
> the
> landing. AMAZING !!
>
> http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv
>
>
> regards,
> Bob N.
> http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
>
> do not archive
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Ron, all
I'v e been told it takes more energy to produce Ethanol than you get
out of it! --
does anyone know?or have a comment?
do nboit archgi9ve
On Jun 19, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Vince Hallam wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam"
> <vince@devonwindmills.co.uk>
>
> Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities
> have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol
> permitted at all
> Vince Hallam
> please phone rather than email for best results!
> 07941 313141
> 01803 316191
> www.devonwindmills.co.uk
> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
>>
>> John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am
>> suspecting that
>> Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard
>> mogas, and
>> the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the
>> engine while
>> burning Ethanol.
>> This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same
>> piece of
>> aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it
>> in a jar
>> of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll
>> report
>> the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the
>> same test
>> with it.
>> Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection
>> hose which I
>> will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a
>> few weeks.
>> I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be
>> damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes.
>> ( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away
>> to rid us
>> of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the
>> American
>> farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here.
>>
>> Ron
>> Arizona
>>
>> ================================
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck
>> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM
>>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Y'all;
>>
>> Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100%
>> alcohol.
>>
>> To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40%
>> as alcohol
>> needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline.
>>
>> Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil
>> off the
>> cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant.
>>
>> You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it.
>>
>> I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago
>> using 100%
>> Alky.
>>
>> So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so.
>>
>> Jim Hauck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
I just LUV the scientific method! hehehehe
Really!
-- Robert
On 6/19/06, Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron <CaptainRon1@cox.net>
>
> As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol
> washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any
> such danger.
> My test is about as scientific as can be, in other words repeatable
> by anyone following my procedures.
> two aluminum tabs .025 identical.
> Two Dixie cups clear plastic.
> Two separate types of oil tested, Mobil-1 5W-30, and Philips X/C
> 20-50 aviation oil.
> Drained 100LL avgas into Dixie cup.
> Poured E-85 into Dixie cup.
> Applied AvOil to both alum tabs.
> Inserted one tab one into Avgas, and one into E-85.
> Lifted both tabs out after 30 seconds.
> Tab into E-85 had most of the oil still on it except that which by
> force of gravity drained to bottom of Dixie cup.
> Tab into avgas was clean of oil. rubbed tab a bit to see if there is
> any oil film on it, could not tell any difference, from the bare alum
> and previously coated parts.
> Repeated experiment a couple of times including swishing the tabs in
> the fuels. In all cases the tab in the Avgas was washed clean and the
> tab into the E-85 still had oil on it.
> The test with the Mobil-1 had the same results with the difference
> that the Mobil-1 was even harder to wash off with the Ethanol.
> In fact I had to wash the Ethanol tab in the Avefuel to clean it so
> it would not stain the box I keep my scrap alum in.
> Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way
> longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal.
> I am still checking on rubber parts. I put an O-ring #14 into the
> ethanol jar, also a piece of Fuel injection hose, and a silicon
> gasket. Wrote Jun-19-06 on it and put it aside.
>
> Ron
> Arizona
>
> =================================================
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" <vince@devonwindmills.co.uk>
> >
> >Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities
> >have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol
> >permitted at all
> >Vince Hallam
> >please phone rather than email for best results!
> >07941 313141
> >01803 316191
> >www.devonwindmills.co.uk
> >----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM
> >
> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
> >>
> >>John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that
> >>Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and
> >>the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while
> >>burning Ethanol.
> >>This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of
> >>aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar
> >>of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report
> >>the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test
> >>with it.
> >>Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which I
> >>will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks.
> >>I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be
> >>damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes.
> >>( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid us
> >>of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American
> >>farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here.
> >>
> >>Ron
> >>Arizona
> >>
> >>================================
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck
> >>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM
> >>
> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
> >>
> >>Y'all;
> >>
> >>Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol.
> >>
> >>To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol
> >>needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline.
> >>
> >>Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the
> >>cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant.
> >>
> >>You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it.
> >>
> >>I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100%
> >>Alky.
> >>
> >>So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so.
> >>
> >>Jim Hauck
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Maybe a setting ?? It played fine here. Do not Archive.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 5:43 PM
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
> Bob
> It all came thru as weird symbols!
>
> On Jun 19, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Bob Noyer wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
>>
>> Any RC-ers on the list: ck this out:
>>
>> Actually has 8 real turbines at about $1500 each!
>>
>> Took over 2 years to build. It has a wing span of about 22 feet.
>>
>> Requires multiple pilots controlling individual remotes, as there
>> are so many
>> things to control.
>>
>> Think they were nervous during the maiden flight?
>>
>> Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines!
>> $12,000 just
>> for the engines !
>>
>> Check out the movie link below to see the first 7 minute flight and
>> the
>> landing. AMAZING !!
>>
>> http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> regards,
>> Bob N.
>> http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: home from MV |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 5/24/2006 7:42:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
WillUribe@aol.com writes:
Greetings everyone,
I'm happy to be home safe, Monday was a terrible day at Grants, and the
winds were gusting to 51 mph.
I made a small webpage with my trip log and a few pictures. Don't get
analytical with the figures because I probably wrote down something wrong.
http://www.members.aol.com/willuribe/mv/
Regards,
Will Uribe
FireStar II N4GU
El Paso, TX
http://home.elp.rr.com/youngeagle/
do not archive
Great story, and I love your format on this voyage Guillermo....sp?
Jorge RANDOLPH , DE The Villages, Fl
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
I heard it too. I somehow don't believe those boys are investing so heavily
into ethanol to loose money. From what I've heard Ethanol plants are
sprouting in Iowa overnight. I think even Bill Gates is investing in an
Ethanol plant in California. There are some big players getting into that
market. ADM and some others, those are serious folks who don't Kidd around
when it comes to money.
Brazil runs on Ethanol.
Ron
Arizona
===================
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of russ kinne
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 5:46 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Ron, all
I'v e been told it takes more energy to produce Ethanol than you get
out of it! --
does anyone know?or have a comment?
do nboit archgi9ve
On Jun 19, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Vince Hallam wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam"
> <vince@devonwindmills.co.uk>
>
> Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities
> have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol
> permitted at all
> Vince Hallam
> please phone rather than email for best results!
> 07941 313141
> 01803 316191
> www.devonwindmills.co.uk
> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
>>
>> John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am
>> suspecting that
>> Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard
>> mogas, and
>> the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the
>> engine while
>> burning Ethanol.
>> This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same
>> piece of
>> aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it
>> in a jar
>> of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll
>> report
>> the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the
>> same test
>> with it.
>> Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection
>> hose which I
>> will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a
>> few weeks.
>> I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be
>> damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes.
>> ( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away
>> to rid us
>> of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the
>> American
>> farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here.
>>
>> Ron
>> Arizona
>>
>> ================================
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck
>> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM
>>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" <jimh474@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Y'all;
>>
>> Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100%
>> alcohol.
>>
>> To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40%
>> as alcohol
>> needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline.
>>
>> Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil
>> off the
>> cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant.
>>
>> You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it.
>>
>> I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago
>> using 100%
>> Alky.
>>
>> So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so.
>>
>> Jim Hauck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> wiki.matronics.com
>
>
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