---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/19/06: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:19 AM - FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair (Jack B. Hart) 2. 08:32 AM - Re: Gasoline (Ethanol, actually) (David Paule) 3. 09:04 AM - Alcohol (Jim Hauck) 4. 09:04 AM - Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair () 5. 11:04 AM - Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair (John Hauck) 6. 11:37 AM - Re: Alcohol (Ron) 7. 01:26 PM - Re: Alcohol (Vince Hallam) 8. 01:37 PM - Beeg one (Bob Noyer) 9. 01:56 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair (planecrazzzy) 10. 02:17 PM - Re: Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair (Jack B. Hart) 11. 02:37 PM - Re: Beeg one (Ed Chmielewski) 12. 03:37 PM - Re: Alcohol (John Hauck) 13. 04:29 PM - E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. (Ron) 14. 04:31 PM - E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. (Ron) 15. 04:50 PM - Re: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. (Ron) 16. 05:46 PM - Re: Beeg one (russ kinne) 17. 05:51 PM - Re: Alcohol (russ kinne) 18. 06:59 PM - Re: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. (Robert Laird) 19. 07:07 PM - Re: Beeg one (Larry Bourne) 20. 08:10 PM - Re: home from MV (GeoR38@aol.com) 21. 08:36 PM - Re: Alcohol (Ron) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:53 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" FireFlyer's, After 200+ hours the FireFly rear wing spar swivel joints started to sound like tinny sleigh bells. Earlier I had shimmed them with thin brass shim stock. Some of the shims stayed in place and others did not. As a result, all the shaking and quaking at the rear of the fuselage slowly wore the pin OD's and the mating hole ID's. I purchased some inexpensive Oilite flanged sleeve bushings from McMaster Carr, drilled out the holes, inserted the bearings, and new slightly longer pins and removed all the play from the swivel joints. Also, I bushed the stud that passes through the cage clevis. I used a washer and two nested "O" rings so that I could put the joint into compression but still let it pivot. Before the repair, the trailing edge of the wing would move over an eight of an inch. After the repair, there is no movement. The nice thing about this repair is that if play shows up again, all one has to do is replace the bushings. There should be little to no wear on the steel surfaces. If you would like to see how it was done, it can be seen at: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly128.html Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:10 AM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gasoline (Ethanol, actually) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" You'd also need a means of pumping more air into the engine, allowing for it to expand, and getting more exhaust out of it. After arranging those things, it wouldn't be the same engine. Dave Paule Boulder, CO Jim Baker wrote: ....you'd need to bump the flow rates up and the result would be an engine that is just as powerful, if not more so...runs cooler, too, at equivalent horsepower because of the greater latent heat of evaporation of ethanol (marginal improvements for the 10-15% stuff). You need to think in terms of stoichiometry, not energy per unit mass. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:29 AM PST US From: "Jim Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Alcohol --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" Y'all; Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol. To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline. Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant. You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it. I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100% Alky. So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so. Jim Hauck ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:31 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair --> Kolb-List message posted by: I can't seem to open up the pictures of the repair of swivel joint. Can you send me some pictures? Thanks in advance -- Rob. ---- "Jack B. Hart" wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" > > FireFlyer's, > > After 200+ hours the FireFly rear wing spar swivel joints started to sound > like tinny sleigh bells. Earlier I had shimmed them with thin brass shim > stock. Some of the shims stayed in place and others did not. As a result, > all the shaking and quaking at the rear of the fuselage slowly wore the pin > OD's and the mating hole ID's. > > I purchased some inexpensive Oilite flanged sleeve bushings from McMaster > Carr, drilled out the holes, inserted the bearings, and new slightly longer > pins and removed all the play from the swivel joints. Also, I bushed the > stud that passes through the cage clevis. I used a washer and two nested > "O" rings so that I could put the joint into compression but still let it > pivot. > > Before the repair, the trailing edge of the wing would move over an eight of > an inch. After the repair, there is no movement. The nice thing about this > repair is that if play shows up again, all one has to do is replace the > bushings. There should be little to no wear on the steel surfaces. > > If you would like to see how it was done, it can be seen at: > > http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly128.html > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:54 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" to sound | like tinny sleigh bells. Earlier I had shimmed them with thin brass shim | stock. Some of the shims stayed in place and others did not. As a result, | all the shaking and quaking at the rear of the fuselage slowly wore the pin | OD's and the mating hole ID's. | | I purchased some inexpensive Oilite flanged sleeve bushings from McMaster | Carr, drilled out the holes, inserted the bearings, and new slightly longer | pins and removed all the play from the swivel joints. Also, I bushed the | stud that passes through the cage clevis. I used a washer and two nested | "O" rings so that I could put the joint into compression but still let it | pivot. | | Before the repair, the trailing edge of the wing would move over an eight of | an inch. After the repair, there is no movement. The nice thing about this | repair is that if play shows up again, all one has to do is replace the | bushings. There should be little to no wear on the steel surfaces. | | If you would like to see how it was done, it can be seen at: | | http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly128.html | | Jack B. Hart FF004 | Winchester, IN | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:37:30 AM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Alcohol --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while burning Ethanol. This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test with it. Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which I will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks. I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes. ( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid us of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here. Ron Arizona ================================ -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" Y'all; Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol. To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline. Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant. You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it. I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100% Alky. So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so. Jim Hauck ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:17 PM PST US From: "Vince Hallam" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Alcohol --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol permitted at all Vince Hallam please phone rather than email for best results! 07941 313141 01803 316191 www.devonwindmills.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" > > John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that > Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and > the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while > burning Ethanol. > This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of > aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar > of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report > the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test > with it. > Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which > I > will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks. > I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be > damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes. > ( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid > us > of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American > farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here. > > Ron > Arizona > > ================================ > > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" > > Y'all; > > Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol. > > To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as > alcohol > needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline. > > Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the > cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant. > > You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it. > > I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100% > Alky. > > So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so. > > Jim Hauck > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:52 PM PST US From: Bob Noyer Subject: Kolb-List: Beeg one --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer Any RC-ers on the list: ck this out: Actually has 8 real turbines at about $1500 each! Took over 2 years to build. It has a wing span of about 22 feet. Requires multiple pilots controlling individual remotes, as there are so many things to control. Think they were nervous during the maiden flight? Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines! $12,000 just for the engines ! Check out the movie link below to see the first 7 minute flight and the landing. AMAZING !! http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv regards, Bob N. http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:20 PM PST US From: "planecrazzzy" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" Hi Jack, Nice work and nice illustrations... Question....Aren't you supposed to have Bolts on those ears instead of Pins....? Gotta Fly... Mike in MN -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41670#41670 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:56 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly Wing Swivel Joint Repair --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" At 01:55 PM 6/19/06 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" > >Hi Jack, > Nice work and nice illustrations... > > Question....Aren't you supposed to have Bolts on those ears instead of > Pins....? > > Gotta Fly... > Mike in MN Mike, The loads are pure shear loads so there is no need for bolts. Pins for a given holding distance are lighter than bolts. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:57 PM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Beeg one --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" Hi Bob/All, That B-52 was later wrecked in what may have been a (believe it or not!) downwind-turn incident preceding an airshow. Quite a fire ensued. Tragic to lose such a nice example. For Mr. Fackler: When is the next 'Thumb' tour? (There, Kolb-related). Ed in JXN MkII/503 Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 4:34 PM > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer > > Any RC-ers on the list: ck this out: > > Actually has 8 real turbines at about $1500 each! > > Took over 2 years to build. It has a wing span of about 22 feet. > > Requires multiple pilots controlling individual remotes, as there are so > many > things to control. > > Think they were nervous during the maiden flight? > > Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines! $12,000 > just > for the engines ! > > Check out the movie link below to see the first 7 minute flight and the > landing. AMAZING !! > > http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv > > > regards, > Bob N. > http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ > > do not archive > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:41 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Alcohol --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" | | John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that | Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and Ron: I haven't made any posts ref alcohol. Bro Jim did though. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:03 PM PST US From: Ron Subject: Kolb-List: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any such danger. My test is about as scientific as can be, in other words repeatable by anyone following my procedures. two aluminum tabs .025 identical. Two Dixie cups clear plastic. Two separate types of oil tested, Mobil-1 5W-30, and Philips X/C 20-50 aviation oil. Drained 100LL avgas into Dixie cup. Poured E-85 into Dixie cup. Applied AvOil to both alum tabs. Inserted one tab one into Avgas, and one into E-85. Lifted both tabs out after 30 seconds. Tab into E-85 had most of the oil still on it except that which by force of gravity drained to bottom of Dixie cup. Tab into avgas was clean of oil. rubbed tab a bit to see if there is any oil film on it, could not tell any difference, from the bare alum and previously coated parts. Repeated experiment a couple of times including swishing the tabs in the fuels. In all cases the tab in the Avgas was washed clean and the tab into the E-85 still had oil on it. The test with the Mobil-1 had the same results with the difference that the Mobil-1 was even harder to wash off with the Ethanol. In fact I had to wash the Ethanol tab in the Avefuel to clean it so it would not stain the box I keep my scrap alum in. Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal. I am still checking on rubber parts. I put an O-ring #14 into the ethanol jar, also a piece of Fuel injection hose, and a silicon gasket. Wrote Jun-19-06 on it and put it aside. Ron Arizona ================================================= >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" > >Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities >have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol >permitted at all >Vince Hallam >please phone rather than email for best results! >07941 313141 >01803 316191 >www.devonwindmills.co.uk >----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" >> >>John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that >>Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and >>the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while >>burning Ethanol. >>This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of >>aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar >>of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report >>the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test >>with it. >>Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which I >>will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks. >>I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be >>damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes. >>( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid us >>of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American >>farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here. >> >>Ron >>Arizona >> >>================================ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck >>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM >> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" >> >>Y'all; >> >>Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol. >> >>To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol >>needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline. >> >>Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the >>cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant. >> >>You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it. >> >>I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100% >>Alky. >> >>So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so. >> >>Jim Hauck >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:52 PM PST US From: Ron Subject: Kolb-List: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any such danger. My test is about as scientific as can be, in other words repeatable by anyone following my procedures. two aluminum tabs .025 identical. Two Dixie cups clear plastic. Two separate types of oil tested, Mobil-1 5W-30, and Philips X/C 20-50 aviation oil. Drained 100LL avgas into Dixie cup. Poured E-85 into Dixie cup. Applied AvOil to both alum tabs. Inserted one tab one into Avgas, and one into E-85. Lifted both tabs out after 30 seconds. Tab into E-85 had most of the oil still on it except that which by force of gravity drained to bottom of Dixie cup. Tab into avgas was clean of oil. rubbed tab a bit to see if there is any oil film on it, could not tell any difference, from the bare alum and previously coated parts. Repeated experiment a couple of times including swishing the tabs in the fuels. In all cases the tab in the Avgas was washed clean and the tab into the E-85 still had oil on it. The test with the Mobil-1 had the same results with the difference that the Mobil-1 was even harder to wash off with the Ethanol. In fact I had to wash the Ethanol tab in the Avefuel to clean it so it would not stain the box I keep my scrap alum in. Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal. I am still checking on rubber parts. I put an O-ring #14 into the ethanol jar, also a piece of Fuel injection hose, and a silicon gasket. Wrote Jun-19-06 on it and put it aside. Ron Arizona ================================================= >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" > >Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities >have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol >permitted at all >Vince Hallam >please phone rather than email for best results! >07941 313141 >01803 316191 >www.devonwindmills.co.uk >----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" >> >>John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that >>Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and >>the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while >>burning Ethanol. >>This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of >>aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar >>of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report >>the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test >>with it. >>Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which I >>will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks. >>I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be >>damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes. >>( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid us >>of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American >>farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here. >> >>Ron >>Arizona >> >>================================ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck >>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM >> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" >> >>Y'all; >> >>Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol. >> >>To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol >>needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline. >> >>Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the >>cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant. >> >>You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it. >> >>I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100% >>Alky. >> >>So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so. >> >>Jim Hauck >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:07 PM PST US From: Ron Subject: Re: Kolb-List: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron I need to add that the temperature in the hanger was near 100f. If someone wants to repeat the experiment and he is in the arctic then you will have oil remaining on both tabs with the 30 second immersion test, but likely not with the swishing test. In the combustion chamber the temps are higher. > >Ron >Arizona > >================================================= > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:40 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Beeg one --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne Bob It all came thru as weird symbols! On Jun 19, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Bob Noyer wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer > > Any RC-ers on the list: ck this out: > > Actually has 8 real turbines at about $1500 each! > > Took over 2 years to build. It has a wing span of about 22 feet. > > Requires multiple pilots controlling individual remotes, as there > are so many > things to control. > > Think they were nervous during the maiden flight? > > Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines! > $12,000 just > for the engines ! > > Check out the movie link below to see the first 7 minute flight and > the > landing. AMAZING !! > > http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv > > > regards, > Bob N. > http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ > > do not archive > > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > wiki.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:20 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Alcohol --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne Ron, all I'v e been told it takes more energy to produce Ethanol than you get out of it! -- does anyone know?or have a comment? do nboit archgi9ve On Jun 19, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Vince Hallam wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" > > > Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities > have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol > permitted at all > Vince Hallam > please phone rather than email for best results! > 07941 313141 > 01803 316191 > www.devonwindmills.co.uk > ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM > > >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" >> >> John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am >> suspecting that >> Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard >> mogas, and >> the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the >> engine while >> burning Ethanol. >> This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same >> piece of >> aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it >> in a jar >> of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll >> report >> the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the >> same test >> with it. >> Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection >> hose which I >> will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a >> few weeks. >> I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be >> damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes. >> ( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away >> to rid us >> of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the >> American >> farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here. >> >> Ron >> Arizona >> >> ================================ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck >> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM >> >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" >> >> Y'all; >> >> Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% >> alcohol. >> >> To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% >> as alcohol >> needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline. >> >> Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil >> off the >> cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant. >> >> You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it. >> >> I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago >> using 100% >> Alky. >> >> So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so. >> >> Jim Hauck >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > wiki.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:51 PM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" I just LUV the scientific method! hehehehe Really! -- Robert On 6/19/06, Ron wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron > > As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol > washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any > such danger. > My test is about as scientific as can be, in other words repeatable > by anyone following my procedures. > two aluminum tabs .025 identical. > Two Dixie cups clear plastic. > Two separate types of oil tested, Mobil-1 5W-30, and Philips X/C > 20-50 aviation oil. > Drained 100LL avgas into Dixie cup. > Poured E-85 into Dixie cup. > Applied AvOil to both alum tabs. > Inserted one tab one into Avgas, and one into E-85. > Lifted both tabs out after 30 seconds. > Tab into E-85 had most of the oil still on it except that which by > force of gravity drained to bottom of Dixie cup. > Tab into avgas was clean of oil. rubbed tab a bit to see if there is > any oil film on it, could not tell any difference, from the bare alum > and previously coated parts. > Repeated experiment a couple of times including swishing the tabs in > the fuels. In all cases the tab in the Avgas was washed clean and the > tab into the E-85 still had oil on it. > The test with the Mobil-1 had the same results with the difference > that the Mobil-1 was even harder to wash off with the Ethanol. > In fact I had to wash the Ethanol tab in the Avefuel to clean it so > it would not stain the box I keep my scrap alum in. > Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way > longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal. > I am still checking on rubber parts. I put an O-ring #14 into the > ethanol jar, also a piece of Fuel injection hose, and a silicon > gasket. Wrote Jun-19-06 on it and put it aside. > > Ron > Arizona > > ================================================= > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" > > > >Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities > >have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol > >permitted at all > >Vince Hallam > >please phone rather than email for best results! > >07941 313141 > >01803 316191 > >www.devonwindmills.co.uk > >----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM > > > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" > >> > >>John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am suspecting that > >>Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard mogas, and > >>the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the engine while > >>burning Ethanol. > >>This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same piece of > >>aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it in a jar > >>of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll report > >>the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the same test > >>with it. > >>Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection hose which I > >>will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a few weeks. > >>I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be > >>damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes. > >>( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away to rid us > >>of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the American > >>farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here. > >> > >>Ron > >>Arizona > >> > >>================================ > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck > >>Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM > >> > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" > >> > >>Y'all; > >> > >>Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% alcohol. > >> > >>To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% as alcohol > >>needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline. > >> > >>Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil off the > >>cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant. > >> > >>You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it. > >> > >>I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago using 100% > >>Alky. > >> > >>So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so. > >> > >>Jim Hauck > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:06 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Beeg one --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Maybe a setting ?? It played fine here. Do not Archive. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 5:43 PM > --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne > > Bob > It all came thru as weird symbols! > > On Jun 19, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Bob Noyer wrote: > >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer >> >> Any RC-ers on the list: ck this out: >> >> Actually has 8 real turbines at about $1500 each! >> >> Took over 2 years to build. It has a wing span of about 22 feet. >> >> Requires multiple pilots controlling individual remotes, as there >> are so many >> things to control. >> >> Think they were nervous during the maiden flight? >> >> Unbelievable that someone would make this - all real turbines! >> $12,000 just >> for the engines ! >> >> Check out the movie link below to see the first 7 minute flight and >> the >> landing. AMAZING !! >> >> http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/B52_flight2.wmv >> >> >> >> >> regards, >> Bob N. >> http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> wiki.matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:17 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: home from MV --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 5/24/2006 7:42:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, WillUribe@aol.com writes: Greetings everyone, I'm happy to be home safe, Monday was a terrible day at Grants, and the winds were gusting to 51 mph. I made a small webpage with my trip log and a few pictures. Don't get analytical with the figures because I probably wrote down something wrong. http://www.members.aol.com/willuribe/mv/ Regards, Will Uribe FireStar II N4GU El Paso, TX http://home.elp.rr.com/youngeagle/ do not archive Great story, and I love your format on this voyage Guillermo....sp? Jorge RANDOLPH , DE The Villages, Fl ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:39 PM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Alcohol --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" I heard it too. I somehow don't believe those boys are investing so heavily into ethanol to loose money. From what I've heard Ethanol plants are sprouting in Iowa overnight. I think even Bill Gates is investing in an Ethanol plant in California. There are some big players getting into that market. ADM and some others, those are serious folks who don't Kidd around when it comes to money. Brazil runs on Ethanol. Ron Arizona =================== -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of russ kinne Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 5:46 PM --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne Ron, all I'v e been told it takes more energy to produce Ethanol than you get out of it! -- does anyone know?or have a comment? do nboit archgi9ve On Jun 19, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Vince Hallam wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vince Hallam" > > > Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities > have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol > permitted at all > Vince Hallam > please phone rather than email for best results! > 07941 313141 > 01803 316191 > www.devonwindmills.co.uk > ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:36 PM > > >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron" >> >> John I am going to run an experiment on this today. I am >> suspecting that >> Ethanol is less cleanser / solvent of regular oil than standard >> mogas, and >> the reason I suspect that is because of the smoothness of the >> engine while >> burning Ethanol. >> This is the test I am going to do. I am going to take the same >> piece of >> aluminum sheet dunk it in Philips 20/60W aveoil, and then dunk it >> in a jar >> of avgas and then a jar of ethanol, each one in its own turn. I'll >> report >> the results here. I also have a qt. of Mobil-1 and I'll try the >> same test >> with it. >> Now as I think of it I also have a new piece of fuel injection >> hose which I >> will cut and drop into the Ethanol jar and leave it in it for a >> few weeks. >> I am guessing that is we can drink it as Vodka it is not going to be >> damaging at all to the stuff we have on our airplanes. >> ( I have to admit I am becoming an Ethanol fan as I see it as away >> to rid us >> of Foreign oil that sponsors terrorism), and I like having the >> American >> farmers get wealthy, keeping the money here. >> >> Ron >> Arizona >> >> ================================ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hauck >> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 11:03 AM >> >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Hauck" >> >> Y'all; >> >> Seems, that y'all are talking about a blended fuel and not 100% >> alcohol. >> >> To run 100% alcohol it is necessary to enlarge the main jets 40% >> as alcohol >> needs a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline. >> >> Another problem with 100% alky is it has a tendency to wash oil >> off the >> cylinder walls unless you use castor oil as a lubricant. >> >> You gain power with 100% alky but you burn a bunch more doing it. >> >> I base this on experience from racing cars a few centuries ago >> using 100% >> Alky. >> >> So if you are looking to run cheaper, don't think so. >> >> Jim Hauck >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > wiki.matronics.com > >