Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:35 AM - Re: Big Lar visit (jimhefner)
2. 01:59 PM - Re: Big Lar visit (biglar)
3. 04:14 PM - serial number (john s. flannery)
4. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: Big Lar visit (Bob Dalton)
5. 05:09 PM - Re: serial number (John Hauck)
6. 05:41 PM - Re: serial number (robert bean)
7. 06:12 PM - Re: serial number (john s. flannery)
8. 07:04 PM - MkIII, suzuki G10 (Eugene Zimmerman)
9. 07:05 PM - Re: Still fighting--- (The BaronVonEvil)
10. 07:27 PM - Re: serial number (Richard Pike)
11. 07:47 PM - Gnats (frank & margie)
12. 08:06 PM - Assumptions--- (frank & margie)
13. 10:42 PM - Twin Engine Firestar 2 (Dave Bigelow)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Big Lar visit |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Bob, where's he headed (furthest destination) this time?
--------
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43114#43114
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Big Lar visit |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "biglar" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Thanks for the nice shot, Bob. I've had a heck of a time finding internet access,
and finally have found a WiFi connection at Kinko's in Medford, OR. Truck
is losing the lift pump and it's in the shop here and won't be done till late
tomorrow. I sure do hate to lose vacation time over something like this. I
had a nice brunch with Roger Hankins this morning, and got to talk planes again
for a bit.
The truck has 98,500 miles on it now, and I need to have this fixed right away, before I go over the 100,000 mile warranty limit. I'm trying to duplicate last year's trip to central and coastal British Columbia, ( http://www.webpictures.homestead.com/bc05.html ) and hoping for better weather than last year. Thanks. Lar Do not Achive.
--------
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43196#43196
Message 3
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This is what I was told a while ago about finding the serial number for
the Mark III of nil repute and haven't it found yet.
"When you get your MK3 cage, it will be stamped on the end of the root
tube."
So I sanded off the heavy black paint on butt end of root tube under
engine mount facing prop and if I am in the right place ,as you see it,
has been removed or was not stamped.
Wouldn't mind knowing more about this bird and want it legal as well as
airworthy (which is coming along).
Do not archive.
jsf
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Big Lar visit |
Hi Jim,
Looks as though "Big Lar" answered your question already, just wanted to say
hello.
Take care, Bob D.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimhefner
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 7:34 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Bob, where's he headed (furthest destination) this time?
--------
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43114#43114
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: serial number |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
John:
Very unusual engine mounting hardware. Not what is called for for
Kolb's.
First batch of MKIII cages didn't get a serial number stamped on the
root tube. My serial number is M3-011. Number 11 to come off the
line.
There is no serial number plate or stamped on my airframe.
john h
mkIII
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: serial number |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
John, any number found on the engine mount or anywhere on the cage is
not a serial number. Mine has a number stamped on it but that was only
for production purposes. If yours was ever registered with the Feds
they will
have a history of the plane's serial number and owners.
Don't know if is still available on the FAA website but you can browse
through
all the Kolbs to avoid picking an already used number. Then just make
one up.
-If you are the manufacturer. That is what the data plate is for.
BB, MkIII, suzuki G10, 53.1 hrs.
On 26, Jun 2006, at 7:10 PM, john s. flannery wrote:
>
>
> This is what I was told a while ago about finding the serial
> numberfor the Mark III of nil repute and haven't it found yet.
>
> "When you get your MK3 cage, it will be stamped on the end of the
> root tube."
>
> So I sanded off the heavy black paint on butt end of root tube under
> engine mount facing prop and if I am in the right place ,as you see
> it, has been removed or was not stamped.
>
> Wouldn't mind knowing more about this bird and want it legal as well
> as airworthy (which is coming along).
>
> Do not archive.
>
> jsf<Contactsheet_0000.jpg>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: serial number |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "john s. flannery" <jflan@zianet.com>
Thanks for clarification. Wanted to find something, so Kolb could help me
sort it out. History is veiled with only a meaningless group of numbers and
letters on the boom put there after the last paint job.
jsf
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 5:39 PM
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> John, any number found on the engine mount or anywhere on the cage is
> not a serial number. Mine has a number stamped on it but that was only
> for production purposes. If yours was ever registered with the Feds they
> will
> have a history of the plane's serial number and owners.
> Don't know if is still available on the FAA website but you can browse
> through
> all the Kolbs to avoid picking an already used number. Then just make one
> up.
> -If you are the manufacturer. That is what the data plate is for.
> BB, MkIII, suzuki G10, 53.1 hrs.
>
> On 26, Jun 2006, at 7:10 PM, john s. flannery wrote:
>
>>
>> This is what I was told a while ago about finding the serial number for
>> the Mark III of nil repute and haven't it found yet.
>>
>> "When you get your MK3 cage, it will be stamped on the end of the root
>> tube."
>>
>> So I sanded off the heavy black paint on butt end of root tube under
>> engine mount facing prop and if I am in the right place ,as you see it,
>> has been removed or was not stamped.
>>
>> Wouldn't mind knowing more about this bird and want it legal as well as
>> airworthy (which is coming along).
>>
>> Do not archive.
>>
>> jsf<Contactsheet_0000.jpg>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | MkIII, suzuki G10 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Bob,
Can you please give us your current assessment of the suzuki
performance on your Mk III?
Climb? Cruise? Fuel burn? Smoothness/ vibration?
How do you feel it compares to rotax?
Are you pleased with engine or do you have any major disappointments
or failed expectations with it?
Is there anything you would do differently if you were powering
another kolb?
I'd be interested in your current preference of reduction ratio and
prop size, as well as gear or belt drive?
As you can tell I am very interested in the geo/ suzuki engine option.
On Jun 26, 2006, at 8:39 PM, robert bean wrote:
> BB, MkIII, suzuki G10, 53.1 hrs.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Still fighting--- |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "The BaronVonEvil" <grageda@innw.net>
Hi All,
On an Item of note regarding "Still Fighting". I have a Firestar II that I bought
used a few years ago. It flew quite well and without trim. About two vears
ago I decided to recover the fuselage due to some wear and tear of the fabric
and primer failure issues. I thought about repriming the fuselage cage with epoxy
primer as had the original builder. However I decided to have the cage powder
coated for the better durability it offers.
After completion I flew my Firestar only to find out that now I had a right wing
heavy issue and needed lots of trim. I didnt change anything on the wings or
struts. I bought the English Ujoints and corrected the problem by changing the
incidence of the left wing. ( It took three washers in the joint).
Apparently during the powdercoat process of heating up the cage to make the material
flow, the heat (400+ degrees) allowed the cage to relax enough here and
there to change the incidence between the wing panels.
So if you are thinking of powdercoating your cage, it is highly advisable that
you do so at the start of construction. Otherwise you may end up retrimming your
plane as I had to.
Thanks for the Great Kolb Forum
The Baron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43258#43258
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/english_u_joint_142.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: serial number |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
You might want to put up a couple good clear pictures of your motor
mount setup. John H is right, something is really non-standard, maybe we
could take a look?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
john s. flannery wrote:
Message 11
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Ref:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
The prop does create a bias as you describe. Note the sides of the
fuselage just ahead of the prop, the gnats are plastered on the right
fuselage side, and the underside of the left flap, but not on the left
side of the fuselage, or the underside of the right flap.
------------------------------------
Richard,
I think I'll go with jerb's explanation------
I've been lurking on this list long enough so's I should know what
engine setup you have, but seeing how my memory is no longer functional,
please let me know what engine/redrive/prop you use. Your info is real
interesting, and I want to think on it some more.
Thanks,
Frank Clyma
Message 12
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Ref. John Hauck's comment:
Decending blade may not be on the right, depending on what type engine
is powering the airplane and whether it is turning through a gear box
or belt drive. Rotax 2 strokes rotate opposite direction 4 strokes.
----------------------------------------
John,
You've got me on that one, I assumed Rotax 2stroke/gearbox----and I
know about the definition of "assume". I think the differential airflow
possibility would exist in any case, but the roll effect might be in the
opposite direction. I wouldn't have believed it could exert such a
strong effect, which is why I shared the info. The difference made by
the trim tab is like night and day----holding constant side stick
pressure, especially right side, gets uncomfortable pretty quickly.
Frank Clyma
Message 13
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| Subject: | Twin Engine Firestar 2 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave Bigelow" <up_country@hotmail.com>
Several months back, I posted my intention to install two Hirth F-33 engines on
my Firestar 2. The design goal was to end up with an aircraft that could at
least maintain altitude on one engine and get to a landing spot if one of the
engines failed. The main issues I anticipated were vibration and the possible
interaction of the overlapped propellers. The engines were mounted on two struts
that were secured to a flat plate that was mounted on the original Lord engine
mounts. In turn, the engines were flat plate mounted on their own set of
mounts.
The right engine uses a prop extender to put the 53 inch Powerfin two blade prop
4 inches behind the left engine prop and allow the overlap. Each engine is
mounted 16 inches from the aircraft center line, and each propeller clears the
aileron on its side by several inches. The whole installation including the
mounting system (excluding battery) weighs almost exactly the same as the Rotax
503.
The interaction of the two propellers crossing each other in opposite directions
at the overlap was pretty much a gamble. I couldnt find any information whether
or not it would work. In the early 80s, I had the chance to do some thrust
tests on the twin engine setup of the Para Plane powered parachute. The Para
Plane installation was very well designed with two small single cylinder (Solo,
if I remember correctly) engines mounted on both sides of a central set of
concentric prop shafts. The engines were connected to each shaft with a belt
drive, and the props counter-rotated several inches apart. We wanted to find
out if the two counter-rotating props would affect each other at various RPMs
of the two engines. Interestingly enough, there was no measurable affect.
With both engines running at full RPM, the thrust (150 lb) was twice that of when
one engine (75 lb) was run alone. With that knowledge in my pocket, I figured
overlapping props crossing in opposite directions would probably not interact
appreciably.
It took several months of part time work to get the mounts set up and the throttles/choke,
fuel system, and electrical system set up. When all that was complete,
I tied the Firestar securely, and started and broke in the engines. I had
some jetting issues because of being at 5,000 feet density altitude. Matt
Dandar, the owner of Recreational Power Engineering (where I purchased the F-33s)
gave me good technical support, and I got the engines running quite well.
With a spring scale tied to the tail wheel area, each engine measured about 150
lbs of static thrust when run alone. The vibration level was about what you
would expect from a single cylinder engine not unreasonable at all. However,
when both engines were run together at high RPM, the thrust was only a little
over 200 pounds, and the vibration level was high. It appeared that the area
where the props overlapped and crossed was too turbulent for the props to work
efficiently.
I had to wait several weeks for the local winds to drop below 10 mph, but finally
had several days with light winds. I trailered the Firestar to the Waimea
Airport, which has almost a mile of paved runway. My grass strip at home is only
700 feet long, and is not ideal for testing a modification of this magnitude.
Takeoff confirmed the static thrust test info. The thrust was not nearly
equal to the Rotax 503, and it should have been greater. I climbed to a couple
of thousand feet above the airport and alternately put one engine to idle,
and the other to full throttle. The yaw was easily controlled with rudder and
I could just maintain level flight. Vibration was about the same as with the
Rotax 503.
With both engines anywhere above 4,500 RPM, the vibration was severe enough that
eventually something on the plane would fail. I did a touch and go, and a full
stop and called it a day. The experiment was a failure, and I really dont
see that there is much I can do to fix it. I think it would work if the engines
could be moved far enough apart to eliminate the propeller overlap, but that
would require bigger struts (more weight and drag). Also, the aileron gap
would have to be extended (shorter ailerons) to provide sufficient clearance for
the props.
I hate to post the details of a failed experiment for the world to pick apart,
but believe it is good to get the info in the archives in case someone else in
the future has the same idea. I think it could be made to work with a concentric
shaft counter-rotating setup like the Para Plane, but I dont have the machine
shop resources available to build it. Guess Ill remount the Rotax 503 and
go fly. Mine has never missed a beat, and hopefully will continue in that mode.
In the meantime, Im looking at the HKS 700E.
As a footnote, the Hirth F-33 engines are beautifully engineered packages, and
Im in no way being critical of them. They are good engines, and Matt Dandar of
RPE backs up and supports his product. They would be my first choice as a light
weight compact package for a single place trike, powered parachute, or other
Part 103 legal ultralight.
--------
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, Rotax 503 DCDI
Read this topic online here:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/twin_hirth_f_33_firestar07_214.jpg
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