Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:18 AM - Radio Noise (Cat36Fly@aol.com)
2. 04:45 AM - Re: Firestar cruise (Ralph Hoover)
3. 06:32 AM - Re: stalls (russ kinne)
4. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: Firestar cruise (Richard Girard)
5. 06:57 AM - Flaps for glide control (David Paule)
6. 07:47 AM - Re: stalls (Richard Girard)
7. 07:47 AM - OSH 2006 (John Hauck)
8. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Firestar cruise (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
9. 08:12 AM - Re: Firestar cruise (Thom Riddle)
10. 08:20 AM - Re: stalls (robert bean)
11. 08:42 AM - Re: Flaps for glide control (john s. flannery)
12. 08:52 AM - Re: OSH 2006 (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
13. 09:00 AM - Re: Radio Noise (Richard Girard)
14. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Firestar cruise (Richard Pike)
15. 10:29 AM - Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( (Blumax008@aol.com)
16. 11:50 AM - Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
17. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Control positioning during ground handling (Jack B. Hart)
18. 11:59 AM - Re: stalls (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
19. 12:40 PM - Re: Firestar cruise (Ralph Hoover)
20. 12:41 PM - Re: Firestar cruise (The BaronVonEvil)
21. 12:41 PM - Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( (Ralph Hoover)
22. 12:49 PM - Re: Firestar cruise (Thom Riddle)
23. 12:56 PM - Re: Firestar cruise (Ralph Hoover)
24. 01:09 PM - Re: Firestar cruise (Ralph Hoover)
25. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: Control positioning during ground handling (John Hauck)
26. 01:31 PM - Re: Re: Firestar cruise (John Hauck)
27. 01:41 PM - Re: Control positioning during ground handling (Ralph Hoover)
28. 01:51 PM - Re: Firestar cruise (The BaronVonEvil)
29. 02:14 PM - Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( (planecrazzzy)
30. 02:16 PM - Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( (Chris Mallory)
31. 02:28 PM - Flaps uneven?!?! (David Key)
32. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Firestar cruise (John Murr)
33. 03:29 PM - Re: Flaps uneven?!?! (John Hauck)
34. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: Firestar cruise (Eugene Zimmerman)
35. 04:15 PM - Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( (Ralph Hoover)
36. 04:21 PM - Re: Flaps uneven?!?! (Eugene Zimmerman)
37. 04:31 PM - Re: Flaps uneven?!?! (John Hauck)
38. 04:51 PM - Re: OSH 2006 (Todd Fredricks)
39. 05:26 PM - Re: OSH 2006 (John Hauck)
40. 05:39 PM - Re: Flaps uneven?!?! (Richard Girard)
41. 05:40 PM - Re: OSH 2006 (Todd Fredricks)
42. 06:14 PM - Re: OSH 2006 (George Alexander)
43. 06:17 PM - Re: OSH 2006 (N111KX (Kip))
44. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Firestar cruise (Richard Pike)
45. 06:34 PM - Re: Flaps uneven?!?! (Eugene Zimmerman)
46. 06:40 PM - Re: Flaps uneven?!?! (David Key)
47. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Firestar cruise (Ralph)
48. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: Firestar cruise (Eugene Zimmerman)
49. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: OSH 2006 (Eugene Zimmerman)
50. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Control positioning during ground handling (possums)
51. 07:16 PM - Pictures Not Kolb related (Bill Vincent)
52. 08:29 PM - Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( (possums)
53. 09:25 PM - Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( (Larry Bourne)
54. 11:16 PM - Re: Re: Gas cap (DAquaNut@aol.com)
55. 11:31 PM - Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
56. 11:32 PM - Re: Re: Gas cap (John Cooley)
57. 11:47 PM - Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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What is being used out there to surpress the engine noise coming through the
VHF radio's? I am using a ENC headset but still have a lot of noise at high
RPM which I suspect is coming from the engine electrical circuits. Is there a
product available or do you build a choke circuit.
Larry Tasker
MKlllx 582
N615RT
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Fantastic, Gentlemen, and thank you.
Here goes:
RPM is between 5,600 and 5,800 RPM at cruise. Struts are streamlined thanks to
my predecessor. Gaps between all air foil hinged area are gap sealed, but only
on one side. I believe ailerons are on the underside, will need to check if that
makes any difference. Rudder is on the Port side. I noted the Preacher stated
something along the lines of landing gear legs. What is there are round plastic
tubes, who's I.D.'s are slightly larger than the legs themselves. They are
the Kolb longer legs.
I never remember experiencing the "defined" feeling of cruise when I was flying
the Challenger. It sure is noticeable in the Kolb. Plus my Flightstar II climb
/ descend indication shows precisely where that point is. Sounds like the only
thing left is streamlining the legs. Will that make any significant difference?
If so, I may do it out of the Mylar initially.
Thank you each one, again for your help. And "IS" 55 a typical cruise speed for
the Firestar?
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51435#51435
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Rick
You wrote an interesting post. What I think your CFI wants is that
you have perfect control of the aircraft at any speed or angle of
bank; hence the practicing of maneuvers you may never use. Doing
figure 8's is a good example. It takes lots of coordination to
compensate for wind drift, loss of altitude, etc etc while
maintaining airspeed and altitude, and not drifting away from ground
target. Very good practice. Cuban 8's too.
I assume Kolbs and the EIS have no audible stall-warning horn? I'd
miss this -- I don't want to take my eyes away from windscreen to
look at a gauge. I've been accused (with some reason) of wearing out
the stall-warning horn -- mostly while whale-surveying at 500' or
less (Cessna 170)
With a properly-rigged aircraft you can hold the stick back (150,
170, 172, 182 etc) and she'll just drop the nose, start flying again,
drop the nose, etc, as long as you want. You don't need to add
power, and certainly not ram the throttle forward.
Stalls may be scary but it's good to go there AT ALTITUDE and get
some experience on how it feels and know what's going to happen next.
Russ Kinne
On Jul 31, 2006, at 5:24 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
> <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> Richard
>
> I saw your comment about the stall recovery but I never talked
> about it with my CFI. Personally I don't like stalls. I don't do
> them and don't practice them. I know I should but... What I do is
> practice not doing them. There are a number of things that they
> have us do in the check ride that doesn't make sense to me. Yes my
> CFI also wants to see much more than a nibble or a buffet. In
> normal flight I'm never going to feel a nibble or a buffet and
> blunder on into a full blown stall. The only time this might happen
> is when I'm close to the ground like takeoff or landing. How
> stupid? No I do practice slow flight down to the point where my
> airplane is telling me WARNING you push me any further and I will
> stall.Then I recover as quickly as possible. Another big test all
> CFIs seem to want is fly a 45 degree bank turn without gaining or
> loosing altitude. What does that do for us? Again in normal flight
> we never do this. On occasion I do high bank turns like they want
> you to do landing to the north/west at Oshkosh but I'm flying a
> approach profile not holding altitude.
>
> Granted there are some reasonable things they have us do during the
> biannual but most of it is just a pain in the.....
>
> Maybe John W. could enlighten us. He is a CFI and I'm sure he has
> had to jump thru many more hoops as a airline captain than we have to.
>
> Sorry I will stop my rant.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:20 PM
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
>>
>> Actually, what I was hoping to instigate was a dialogue comparing
>> the a Kolb stall to the typical mantra that most instructors will
>> give you when you do a power off stall in a C172 or such.
>> Something like, "As the nose drops, you ease the stick forward
>> while adding power to arrest the descent."
>>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
Ralph, I wonder if you're not over propped?
When I put the new blades in my Warp Drive, I got the prop pitch set wrong,
big time. The first flight I made the mistake of flying when I should have
shut it down. I made it, but the Mk III would barely reach 60 mph and engine
RPM was low, in the high 4000's, low. I nursed her around and back to the
hangar and took .75 degrees out. Now she could do 70, but climb was still
pitiful and RPM was 5300 +/-. Back to the hangar and took another full
degree out. The engine reached 6200 RPM, the climb was much, much better
(sorry no VSI) and I could get to the top of the green arc on the ASI (90
mph) in level cruise.
If your prop is adjustable, I'd back out .5 degrees and see what you get.
Barring that, I have a 66 X 28 I can send you to try.
Rick
On 8/1/06, Ralph Hoover <flht99reh@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com
> >
>
> Fantastic, Gentlemen, and thank you.
>
> Here goes:
> RPM is between 5,600 and 5,800 RPM at cruise. Struts are streamlined
> thanks to my predecessor. Gaps between all air foil hinged area are gap
> sealed, but only on one side. I believe ailerons are on the underside, will
> need to check if that makes any difference. Rudder is on the Port side. I
> noted the Preacher stated something along the lines of landing gear legs.
> What is there are round plastic tubes, who's I.D.'s are slightly larger
> than the legs themselves. They are the Kolb longer legs.
>
> I never remember experiencing the "defined" feeling of cruise when I was
> flying the Challenger. It sure is noticeable in the Kolb. Plus my Flightstar
> II climb / descend indication shows precisely where that point is. Sounds
> like the only thing left is streamlining the legs. Will that make any
> significant difference? If so, I may do it out of the Mylar initially.
>
> Thank you each one, again for your help. And "IS" 55 a typical cruise
> speed for the Firestar?
>
> Ohio Ralph
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51435#51435
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Flaps for glide control |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
I sometimes change the flap setting on my Cessna Skywagon for glide-path
control.
It works best during the approach segments when the speed is higher. You
definitely need to be on the fast side of the power curve - but not all that
fast.... On final, when I'm slowing down and bleeding off speed, there's
insufficient kinetic energy left for this to be a good control method. While
flying slower, slips work better.
Incidentally, I generally plan to be a little high to land long, not too
high or long, hopefully. Then adjust the terminal approach with slips so as
to get lower. That way I've got a little more energy to play with, and if I
screw up I won't plant it on the wrong side of the fence.
Doing it this way, I can use full flaps as the nominal position, and vary
the glide path rather considerably.
Won't work in all Cessnas, some won't permit slips with full flaps.
Dave Paule
Kolb Firestar II for sale, $8,500, 503, strobes, intake/exhaust silencer.
Cessna Skywagon, "Big Hammer," absolutely not for sale.
Richard Neilsen wrote -
Sorry if I get long winded but... I just got my biannual check ride. This is
my once every two years ride in a C172. Afterwards I shared my forced
landing experience in MKIIIc with him. I started to tell him how I used the
flaps to adjust my glide path to get me where I wanted to land (kind of like
a negative throttle) and fully retracted them for landing. He stopped me and
said you never never raise your flaps on approach. We then got into a heavy
discussion about flap usage. He finally conceded that it might work in one
of "those" Kolbs but not in a GA aircraft. I obviously need to take him up
in my Kolb and should have done it right then in the C172 but at close to
$100 per hour it wasn't worth it.
Message 6
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Rick, Since I started flying in the late 60's, I've buried more than a few
pilot friends far too soon before their time. So please take this in the
context that you seem like an interesting guy and I'd like to meet you at
Monument Valley next spring.
What you are doing is very, very dangerous. The only defense against stall
spin accidents is to practice, practice, practice breaking a stall cleanly
and quickly.
Let me share an experience I had last month.
It was a nice balmy evening here on the Great Grass Desert, the wind was
from the north, my favorite since it means I can just taxi out to runway 35
and be off. The takeoff roll was normal into an 8 mph wind and I began a 55
mph climb out after lift off. Everything was still normal as I passed thru
200 feet.
What happened next was either a micro shear at the treeline on the right at
midfield or a late evening thermal lifted off when I was in its shear
boundary, or something. Honestly, I'm guessing, but I've been thrown out of
thermals a lot and that's what it felt like. What I do know is that the nose
came up suddenly, completely uncommanded. The last airspeed I saw was 40.
The right wing dropped sharply and began to slip backward. I don't really
remember jamming the stick forward and stomping on the left rudder pedal. I
did, and the nose came down, the turn to the right stopped and the aispeed
was climbing back thru 50 and I pulled back on the stick, carefully, at 60.
I had lost 20 to 40 feet by the time I resumed the climb at 65. Needless to
say, I did a subconcsious skivees check as I turned to downwind. I could
feel nothing wrong with the airplane so I continued on with my evening
cruise over the farm fields, quietly thanking every instructor and examiner
who'd ever made me demonstrate proper stall recovery.
Whether caused by weather, fuel starvation, or spatial disorientation, the
stall spin accident is still what kills the majority of pilots. Practicing
approach and departure stalls at a safe altitude is the only real defense
you have, don't disarm yourself thinking it won't happen to me.
Rick
On 8/1/06, russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
> Rick
> You wrote an interesting post. What I think your CFI wants is that
> you have perfect control of the aircraft at any speed or angle of
> bank; hence the practicing of maneuvers you may never use. Doing
> figure 8's is a good example. It takes lots of coordination to
> compensate for wind drift, loss of altitude, etc etc while
> maintaining airspeed and altitude, and not drifting away from ground
> target. Very good practice. Cuban 8's too.
> I assume Kolbs and the EIS have no audible stall-warning horn? I'd
> miss this -- I don't want to take my eyes away from windscreen to
> look at a gauge. I've been accused (with some reason) of wearing out
> the stall-warning horn -- mostly while whale-surveying at 500' or
> less (Cessna 170)
> With a properly-rigged aircraft you can hold the stick back (150,
> 170, 172, 182 etc) and she'll just drop the nose, start flying again,
> drop the nose, etc, as long as you want. You don't need to add
> power, and certainly not ram the throttle forward.
> Stalls may be scary but it's good to go there AT ALTITUDE and get
> some experience on how it feels and know what's going to happen next.
> Russ Kinne
>
> On Jul 31, 2006, at 5:24 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
> > <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > I saw your comment about the stall recovery but I never talked
> > about it with my CFI. Personally I don't like stalls. I don't do
> > them and don't practice them. I know I should but... What I do is
> > practice not doing them. There are a number of things that they
> > have us do in the check ride that doesn't make sense to me. Yes my
> > CFI also wants to see much more than a nibble or a buffet. In
> > normal flight I'm never going to feel a nibble or a buffet and
> > blunder on into a full blown stall. The only time this might happen
> > is when I'm close to the ground like takeoff or landing. How
> > stupid? No I do practice slow flight down to the point where my
> > airplane is telling me WARNING you push me any further and I will
> > stall.Then I recover as quickly as possible. Another big test all
> > CFIs seem to want is fly a 45 degree bank turn without gaining or
> > loosing altitude. What does that do for us? Again in normal flight
> > we never do this. On occasion I do high bank turns like they want
> > you to do landing to the north/west at Oshkosh but I'm flying a
> > approach profile not holding altitude.
> >
> > Granted there are some reasonable things they have us do during the
> > biannual but most of it is just a pain in the.....
> >
> > Maybe John W. could enlighten us. He is a CFI and I'm sure he has
> > had to jump thru many more hoops as a airline captain than we have to.
> >
> > Sorry I will stop my rant.
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > Rick Neilsen
> > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:20 PM
> >
> >
> >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
> >>
> >> Actually, what I was hoping to instigate was a dialogue comparing
> >> the a Kolb stall to the typical mantra that most instructors will
> >> give you when you do a power off stall in a C172 or such.
> >> Something like, "As the nose drops, you ease the stick forward
> >> while adding power to arrest the descent."
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> > wiki.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 7
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Morning Gang:
Had a good flight to OSH.
First morning out of Gantt IAP put me into some severe weather,
thunderstorms, reduced visibility, heavy rain, lightening, and wind.
I ducked into Guntersville Airport, Alabama. Made my approach over
Lake Guntersville. Beautiful place. During my two hour weather
delay, I discovered Bruce's Cafe. Great home cooking, southern style,
and inexpensive. They also had scratch made banana pudding.
Less than an hour after departing Guntersville, I was circling Mike
Schnabel's brand new airstrip in Manchester, TN. Took some photos of
it and proceeded to be the first aircraft to land there. Mike did a
super job building his strip. A short visit, mostly in the rain,
topped off with fuel, courtesy of Mike (thanks again Mike), and I took
off in the rain. Once airborne the entire horizon was black, with the
exception of one tiny spot of light. Was about ready to dive back
into Mike's strip and wait for the front to pass, but decided to take
a look at the light spot which turned out to be the hole I needed to
get me north.
Ran out of energy and daylight at Terra Haute, IN. Ducked into a
small airport on the north side called Sky King. Was an open hanger
with room for a MKIII among the Cessna's and Pipers. Set my tent up
in the hanger to keep the mosquitoes from carrying me off.
Next morning I flew without the aid of coffee until I landed at
Danville, IL. After topping off the aircraft I headed to town to top
off Hauck. My morning flight was perfect. No wind, clear blue skies,
and a good airplane under me.
Arrived at OSH, promptly did my usual OSH and Sun and Fun arrival
procedure: One pass over the field, tight turn around and land.
Scott Trask and Mark German were already set up in the UL tie
down/camping area.
Had a good time at OSH. Saw a lot of old friends and met some new
ones. Spent 5 hours flying the UL traffic pattern which resulted in
202 miles across the ground in a circle. ;-) That's $200.00 worth of
fuel to go no where.
Was going to depart last day of the show, but Saturday morning had a
line of thunderstorms coming from horizon to horizon. My tent was
dry, no dew Friday night, so I made the decision to head out before
the weather arrived rather than take a chance on spending a few days
waiting for weather.
My second refuel stop was Henderson, KY. Last time I landed here was
1989, on the way home from OSH in my Firestar. I got here late, spent
the night, and left the next morning early. The only evidence I had
been there was the spot in the grass where I had placed my air
mattress.
Ten minutes after departing Henderson I caught the profile of a mkIII
on the horizon. Wow! What a coincidence. This doesn't happen very
often. I pulled up beside him and waved my wings. Tried to contact
him on the local unicom freq with no success. About that time I saw
where he was headed, a beautiful manicured green air strip in the
country. I circled the field, got a wave from the folks on the
ground, and landed. Come to find out it was Mike Richardson and his
BMW powered mkIII. They were having a little get together at Hal
Shoal's (think that is the correct name) and I had landed right in the
middle of it. Most hospitable folks I ever met. When I finally got
back in my mkIII and departed, my belly was full of delicious BBQ and
other home grown veggies and some scrumptious deserts. Fine folks,
and Mike has a beautiful fuel injected, BMW powered, mkIII, plus Hal
has an immaculate original FS.
Got dark on me at Pulaski, TN. Spent the night on the concrete floor
of the hanger. No need for a tent, just the sleeping bag and air
mattress. No one there when I landed and no one there when I got up
the next morning. That meant no fuel either and the weather was
marginal. Tennessee is noted for its abundant ground fog in the
summer. Waited for a while, took a peak top side, and headed for
Gantt IAP.
Was on the south side of Cullman Airport, AL, and ran into rain and
solid overcast. Turned around and flew back to Cullman. Didn't need
fuel, but the FBO was super friendly, gave me the courtesy car and I
got a Ultimate Supreme Grand Slam Breakfast at Denny's in Cullman,
plus plenty coffee. I was going to try and fly 300 miles without
coffee, but now I did not have to.
Forty miles from home, in the little mountains SE of Birmingham, AL,
the weather continued to plague me with low viz and rain. Jim House,
former EAA UL Board member's grass strip was right below me. I
circled the field a couple times, woke up all his neighbors, and by
the time I taxied up to the hanger, there was a good size crowd there.
Had a good visit, got back in Miss P'fer, and was landing at my strip
a few minutes later.
I have attached a few photos, I only took a few, of the trip.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
>
> Thank you each one, again for your help. And "IS" 55 a typical cruise
> speed for the Firestar?
>
> Ohio Ralph
When I had my single seat Firestar the ASI seemed to be "tied" to the tach.
What I mean is if I was turning 5500 rpm, I was at 55 mph, 6,000 rpm, 60
mph,etc. I know there's no relation between these two conditions but that's
how it was. Oh yeah, it had a 447. Great little airplane.
AzDave
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Ralph,
When I flew an early Firestar with the 35 hp 377, it would cruise true airspeed
of 55 mph at only 5,200 rpm and EGTs were fine. It would cruise a good bit over
60 mph at 5800-5900 rpm but was a lot noisier. And this was with a big cannister
BRS hanging down in the breeze below the fuselage. However, it did have
streamlined wing struts but no leg fairings and the prop was a 60" two-blade IVO.
And, it had smallish wheelbarrow tires. Big tires will knock off a couple
MPH easily.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51485#51485
Message 10
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-In defense of Rick N's position: the majority of stall/spin
accidents are tight
turns at low altitude. The standard power off, straight ahead stall
and recovery
bears no resemblance to this. In my younger days I did all the spins,
loops,
drop slips, and various drop-out-of-the-sky maneuvers possible in my old
standard category taildragger.
Now, having satisfied my curiosity in such matters, being less bold, and
not having a BRS installed, I am quite happy to just motor about the
neighborhood
well within the realm of sane speed and attitude limitations.
Certain emergency responses may be counterintuitive to some people,
such as
stick forward to aim at the ground to regain flying speed, but that is
generally all
that is needed to save your butt. If you are already too close to the
ground to
do it, then the backup plan has to be used. Kiss your butt goodbye.
-BB, too inflexible now for that one
do not archive
On 1, Aug 2006, at 10:45 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Rick, Since I started flying in the late 60's, I've buried more than a
> few pilot friends far too soon before their time. So please take this
> in the context that you seem like an interesting guy and I'd like to
> meet you at Monument Valley next spring.
> What you are doing is very, very dangerous. The only defense against
> stall spin accidents is to practice, practice, practice breaking a
> stall cleanly and quickly.
> Let me share an experience I had last month.
> It was a nice balmy evening here on the Great Grass Desert, the wind
> was from the north, my favorite since it means I can just taxi out to
> runway 35 and be off. The takeoff roll was normal into an 8 mph wind
> and I began a 55 mph climb out after lift off. Everything was still
> normal as I passed thru 200 feet.
> What happened next was either a micro shear at the treeline on the
> right at midfield or a late evening thermal lifted off when I was in
> its shear boundary, or something. Honestly, I'm guessing, but I've
> been thrown out of thermals a lot and that's what it felt like. What I
> do know is that the nose came up suddenly, completely uncommanded. The
> last airspeed I saw was 40. The right wing dropped sharply and began
> to slip backward. I don't really remember jamming the stick forward
> and stomping on the left rudder pedal. I did, and the nose came down,
> the turn to the right stopped and the aispeed was climbing back thru
> 50 and I pulled back on the stick, carefully, at 60. I had lost 20 to
> 40 feet by the time I resumed the climb at 65. Needless to say, I did
> a subconcsious skivees check as I turned to downwind. I could feel
> nothing wrong with the airplane so I continued on with my evening
> cruise over the farm fields, quietly thanking every instructor and
> examiner who'd ever made me demonstrate proper stall recovery.
> Whether caused by weather, fuel starvation, or spatial disorientation,
> the stall spin accident is still what kills the majority of pilots.
> Practicing approach and departure stalls at a safe altitude is the
> only real defense you have, don't disarm yourself thinking it won't
> happen to me.
>
> Rick
>
> On 8/1/06, russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
> wrote:kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Rick
>> You wrote an interesting post. What I think your CFI wants is that
>> you have perfect control of the aircraft at any speed or angle of
>> bank; hence the practicing of maneuvers you may never use. Doing
>> figure 8's is a good example. It takes lots of coordination--to
>> compensate for wind--drift, loss of altitude, etc etc while
>> maintaining airspeed and altitude, and not drifting away from ground
>> target. Very good practice. Cuban 8's too.
>> I assume Kolbs and the EIS have no audible stall-warning horn? I'd
>> miss this -- I don't want to take my eyes away from--windscreen
to
>> look at a gauge. I've been accused (with some reason) of wearing out
>> the stall-warning horn -- mostly while whale-surveying at 500' or
>> less--(Cessna 170)
>> With a properly-rigged aircraft you can hold the stick back (150,
>> 170, 172, 182 etc) and she'll just drop the nose, start flying again,
>> drop the nose, etc, as long as you want. You don't need to add
>> power, and certainly not ram the throttle forward.
>> Stalls may be scary but it's good to go there AT ALTITUDE and get
>> some experience on how it feels and know what's going to happen next.
>> Russ Kinne
>>
>> On Jul 31, 2006, at 5:24 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
>>
>> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
>> > < NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>> >
>> > Richard
>> >
>> > I saw your comment about the stall recovery but I never talked
>> > about it with my CFI. Personally I don't like stalls. I don't do
>> > them and don't practice them. I know I should but... What I do is
>> > practice not doing them. There are a number of things that they
>> > have us do in the check ride that doesn't make sense to me. Yes my
>> > CFI also wants to see much more than a nibble or a buffet. In
>> > normal flight I'm never going to feel a nibble or a buffet and
>> > blunder on into a full blown stall. The only time this might happen
>> > is when I'm close to the ground like takeoff or landing. How
>> > stupid? No I do practice slow flight down to the point where my
>> > airplane is telling me WARNING you push me any further and I will
>> > stall.Then I recover as quickly as possible. Another big test all
>> > CFIs seem to want is fly a 45 degree bank turn without gaining or
>> > loosing altitude. What does that do for us? Again in normal flight
>> > we never do this. On occasion I do high bank turns like they want
>> > you to do landing to the north/west at Oshkosh but I'm flying a
>> > approach profile not holding altitude.
>> >
>> > Granted there are some reasonable things they have us do during the
>> > biannual but most of it is just a pain in the.....
>> >
>> > Maybe John W. could enlighten us. He is a CFI and I'm sure he has
>> > had to jump thru many more hoops as a airline captain than we have
>> to.
>> >
>> > Sorry I will stop my rant.
>> >
>> > Do not archive
>> >
>> > Rick Neilsen
>> > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:20 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike
>> <richard@bcchapel.org>
>> >>
>> >> Actually, what I was hoping to instigate was a dialogue comparing
>> >> the a Kolb stall to the typical mantra that most instructors will
>> >> give you when you do a power off stall in a C172 or such.
>> >> Something like, "As the nose drops, you ease the stick forward
>> >> while adding power to arrest the descent."
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> > wiki.matronics.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >========================
=====================
>> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://
>> www.matronics.com/==================
=========================
==
>> ========================
=========================
====
>> p;-----------------------Ma
tt Dralle, Li>
>> ========================
=========================
=
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Girard
> "Ya'll drop on in"
> takes on a whole new meaning
> when you live at the airport.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Flaps for glide control |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "john s. flannery" <jsflan@valornet.com>
And with the 180s and 185s, good idea to watch airspeed with those big full
flaps on that last quarter mile. Been there, actually below sea level,
encountered wake turbulence and totalled one. Interesting perspective
looking at the gas dripping the wrong way "up" the windscreen a few feet
from your head. Also used quick yank to get full flaps to get wings above
high cattle guard posts on an engine out landing in an early 150 that was
already sold. Nice greaser on the other side of the posts.
And on shortfield landings, good idea to dump flaps immediately after
touching to get best braking effect.
Do not archive.
jsf
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:56 AM
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
>
> I sometimes change the flap setting on my Cessna Skywagon for glide-path
> control.
>
> It works best during the approach segments when the speed is higher. You
> definitely need to be on the fast side of the power curve - but not all
> that
> fast.... On final, when I'm slowing down and bleeding off speed, there's
> insufficient kinetic energy left for this to be a good control method.
> While
> flying slower, slips work better.
>
> Incidentally, I generally plan to be a little high to land long, not too
> high or long, hopefully. Then adjust the terminal approach with slips so
> as
> to get lower. That way I've got a little more energy to play with, and if
> I
> screw up I won't plant it on the wrong side of the fence.
>
> Doing it this way, I can use full flaps as the nominal position, and vary
> the glide path rather considerably.
>
> Won't work in all Cessnas, some won't permit slips with full flaps.
>
> Dave Paule
> Kolb Firestar II for sale, $8,500, 503, strobes, intake/exhaust silencer.
> Cessna Skywagon, "Big Hammer," absolutely not for sale.
>
>
> Richard Neilsen wrote -
>
> Sorry if I get long winded but... I just got my biannual check ride. This
> is
> my once every two years ride in a C172. Afterwards I shared my forced
> landing experience in MKIIIc with him. I started to tell him how I used
> the
> flaps to adjust my glide path to get me where I wanted to land (kind of
> like
> a negative throttle) and fully retracted them for landing. He stopped me
> and
> said you never never raise your flaps on approach. We then got into a
> heavy
> discussion about flap usage. He finally conceded that it might work in one
> of "those" Kolbs but not in a GA aircraft. I obviously need to take him up
> in my Kolb and should have done it right then in the C172 but at close to
> $100 per hour it wasn't worth it.
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
John
Thanks. Kind of a nasty trip as far a weather goes. I tend to forget how bad
the weather is at and around Oshkosh that time of year. Last year we started
out the week with temps in the nineties then we had a major thunderstorm the
second night that had all five of my tiedowns threatening to give up. The
next day it was down in the sixties.
Glad you had a good and safe trip.
Mike R. could we hear more about that BMW powered MKIII. How about cost,
model, redrive, engine mount, RPMs at cruise and take off, noise level,
performance compared to 80 HP rotax, fuel burn, cruise speed, etc.
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:45 AM
> Morning Gang:
>
> Had a good flight to OSH.
Message 13
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What you probably need is a filter capacitor of about 4700 uf and a choke
coil. Radio Shack used to sell both these items in a kit, but I don't know
if they still do. Aso check to see that you've grounded everything per the
manufacturers spec. and haven't added any grounds. Join the Aeroelectric
list which is also here on Mattronics.
On 8/1/06, Cat36Fly@aol.com <Cat36Fly@aol.com> wrote:
>
> What is being used out there to surpress the engine noise coming through
> the VHF radio's? I am using a ENC headset but still have a lot of noise at
> high RPM which I suspect is coming from the engine electrical circuits. Is
> there a product available or do you build a choke circuit.
>
> Larry Tasker
> MKlllx 582
> N615RT
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Do you have a cockpit enclosure? There is a world of difference in
efficiency between enclosed and open on the Firestar. (You need to pick
Vince Nicely's brains on this, he is the Firestar II efficiency expert.
Talked to him last night, he was out yesterday in his FSII, thermal
sniffing, flew for 3 hours, burned 6 gallons of gas)
On our FSII, it has a 582, and runs 55 mph at 5000 rpm. At 5800 rpm, you
better to have the nose up and be climbing.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Ralph Hoover wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>
> Fantastic, Gentlemen, and thank you.
>
> Here goes:
> RPM is between 5,600 and 5,800 RPM at cruise. Struts are streamlined thanks to
my predecessor. Gaps between all air foil hinged area are gap sealed, but only
on one side. I believe ailerons are on the underside, will need to check if
that makes any difference. Rudder is on the Port side. I noted the Preacher stated
something along the lines of landing gear legs. What is there are round
plastic tubes, who's I.D.'s are slightly larger than the legs themselves. They
are the Kolb longer legs.
>
> I never remember experiencing the "defined" feeling of cruise when I was flying
the Challenger. It sure is noticeable in the Kolb. Plus my Flightstar II climb
/ descend indication shows precisely where that point is. Sounds like the
only thing left is streamlining the legs. Will that make any significant difference?
If so, I may do it out of the Mylar initially.
>
> Thank you each one, again for your help. And "IS" 55 a typical cruise speed for
the Firestar?
>
> Ohio Ralph
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51435#51435
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( |
Learn from this all you lightplane enthusiasts. It deals with Trikes but the
lesson is the same...don't push it! I was lucky beyond belief.
Hey,
I'll try to make this as brief as possible. Here's what happened...
Me & a good friend were out flying our Trikes. I have a Kolb too. Typical
hot, miserable, muggy, windy, buggie, shitty, deep summer Florida day. T-storms
in the vicinity. Why people flock to Florida in the summer eludes me
completely.
Me, after landing on beach, looking at video camera footage & standing
within 1 foot of my Trike with my thumb up my ass & my Trike wing angled to
windward...in other words...the wrong way it should've been angled with a T-storm
very nearby & the wind already picking up.
Continuing with my thumb up my ass & while reviewing video footage of total
bullshit...all of a sudden, a gust of wind...Trike falls over & bends the
keel tube about 20 degrees off center causing all in-flight supporting wires on
that side to have a huge amount of slack.
Me, continuing to be stupid, removes all excess equipment, gets in & flies
it (I'll fly low in case it falls apart Mike") over water, marsh & trees back
to the airport...
While flying, for some reason... could it be that the Trike has been sitting
outside for 7 years (?) & the weird pressures the wing was having to endure
to keep itself flying by the hand of an absolute idiot...the wing fabric on
the left side starts coming apart at the left end & continuing inward causing
a huge amount of control pressure correction on the right side (Trike aka:
hang glider) not to mention enough vibration to almost shake the control bar
out of my extremely tight grip.
This of course added to my scan of the bent keel, wondering if it was
bending further & wondering which was going to happen first, the keel & wing
collapsing or was the left wing fabric was going to rip itself to pieces prior
to
my "very seriously in doubt & getting worse" arrival at the airport.
I got lucky.
Me, after landing & continuing to be stupid beyond belief, asks my friend
Mike, who had just landed & was shaking his head horizontally back & forth like
I was totally out of my mind...which I was...if I can fly his Trike back the
beach to pick up the junk I had left there to make the takeoff lighter &
shorter...the only smart thing I did all day.
Another long story short...I crash Mike's Trike on landing & bend the same
friggin' keel bar on Mike's!!! My first ever crash in nearly 30 years of
flying ultralights.
His is much lighter than mine & controls much easier (no excuse). I picked
up some really crappy turbulence just as I chopped power & attempted to land.
It went sideways on me, I corrected too much, it went the other way, I again
corrected too much, was too low, too slow & with the engine at near idle to
go around...with his much smaller tires, they dug in the sand & flipped me
over onto the nose & the keel bent...the same friggin' keel I bent on mine!
Believe it or not, I was going to FLY this f--ker back too but upon
inspection, found that his keel was bent in TWO places with one break showing
sky on
the other side.
Taking it apart while sweating my ass off & getting bit to hell by sweat
bees, sand gnats etc, I'm bending down trying to figure out why in hell the
Trike frame will not collapse (for transport by boat back home...another story).
Anyway, I finally find a small piece of velcro holding up the
situation...pull it apart & WHAM!...the vertical support post falls down onto
my head...on
the corner of the square post no less...& creates a gush of blood that Dracula
would swoon over as well as a huge gash & an actual DENT in my head. Why I
didn't think to get out of the way as soon as I pulled that Velcro is beyond
me.
Forgetting that Mike had put my cell phone in a pocket of his Trike, I walk
& wade a mile down a hot, miserable beach, dripping loads of blood down my
face & body & find a young lady with a cell phone & a terror stricken
face...could it be because of my condition? I call Mike & you can figure the rest.
Did it knock any sense into me....I doubt it.
I would continue but it just gets worse....
Bill Catalina...U-2 pilot
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( |
Bill,
Talk about a bad hair day!!! Part of me is crying because of your
misfortune. But the other part of me is shedding tears of laughter from
your telling of the tale. Apparently, you must be ok and the bleeding
has stopped and that's good. Thanks for sharing the funniest mishap
I've ever read. Mine aren't near as funny and probably more stupid!!!
.....and Pat,
I sure hope this makes you feel better!!!
AzDave
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Blumax008@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :(
Learn from this all you lightplane enthusiasts. It deals with Trikes
but the lesson is the same...don't push it! I was lucky beyond belief.
Me, continuing to be stupid, removes all excess equipment, gets in &
flies it (I'll fly low in case it falls apart Mike") over water, marsh &
trees back to the airport...
I got lucky.
asks my friend Mike, who had just landed ......if I can fly his Trike
back the beach to pick up the junk I had left there to make the takeoff
lighter & shorter...the only smart thing I did all day.
I crash Mike's Trike on landing & bend the same friggin' keel bar on
Mike's!!! My first ever crash in nearly 30 years of flying.
Believe it or not, I was going to FLY this f--ker back too but upon
inspection, found that his keel was bent in TWO places with one break
showing sky on the other side.
Anyway, I finally find a small piece of velcro holding up the
situation...pull it apart & WHAM!...the vertical support post falls down
onto my head... creates a gush of blood that Dracula would swoon over as
well as a huge gash & an actual DENT in my head. Why I didn't think to
get out of the way as soon as I pulled that Velcro is beyond me.
Forgetting that Mike had put my cell phone in a pocket of his Trike, I
walk & wade a mile down a hot, miserable beach, dripping loads of blood
down my face & body & find a young lady with a cell phone & a terror
stricken face...could it be because of my condition? I call Mike & you
can figure the rest.
Did it knock any sense into me....I doubt it.
I would continue but it just gets worse....
Bill Catalina...U-2 pilot
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Control positioning during ground handling |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 04:10 PM 7/31/06 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> I can assure you that prop blast also
>hits the horizontal stabilizers, elevators, and rudder of every model,
>including the two I have never flown.
>
John & Kolbers,
If this is so, then why there so little pitch control after you open the
throttle for takeoff? Why did Homer put that little hoop under the nose? Why
do some
even move their landing gear forward? If this was true, I should be able to
hold the stick back against the stop and be able to advance the throttle
aggressively and not put the FireFly on it's nose.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 18
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Rick
No offence taken. I hope to make it to Monument Valley next year one way
or another and we can continue this discussion.
I do think you are mistaken. First it is MOST important to recognize a
stall before it happens and how to quickly keep it from happening.
Second an airplane in general and Kolbs in particular fly much different
fully stalled than they do when they are about to. In fact they fly
differently near stall. My Kolb flies with less overall control and more
power related pitch response. I choose to practice recovery before a
stall because I always know a stall is coming. When my airplane was new
I tried a power off landing with full flaps just like John Hauck showed
me in my demo flight (well... not just like it). When I got close to the
ground I panicked and pulled up too soon. Kind of like I was trained to
do in a Cessna. Well I was 30-40 AGL with the IAS falling fast below 40
but it wasn't the airspeed that got my attention it was my beloved Kolb
screaming don't hurt me. I quickly nosed down and landed hard bending
the landing gear. It could have been worse!!!
My airplane and in fact every airplane I have ever flown from a
Weedhopper on the low end to a Piper Saratoga on the bigger end have
always warned me they were about to quit flying. I'm not talking about
those fancy stall horns. My primary flight instructor told me recently
that I must have my butt directly wired to the wings because I could
detect a stall quicker than any student he had ever had. This came from
practicing and paying attention to your airplane. If you feel the
controls not just horse them around they tell you speeds, attitude,
condition of the airplane and impending stall.
If you only practice fully stalling a Kolb you might do the wrong thing
when you are close to the ground and are close to a stall. Worse yet you
might even not know it is about to stall.
I have flown in turbulence were I was getting pitched well beyond 45
degrees up and down as well as in roll. I never had a full stall. I
nearly lost my lunch and vow never to fly in that kind of weather again.
I also fly from a narrow strip lined by tall trees that can create some
nasty turbulence and wind shear so I try to use a bit of common sense by
adding a bit of additional speed to my takeoffs and landings when it is
windy. Except for that once I have never come close to a unintentional
stall. Knock on my head.
In spite of all this yes I have fully stalled my plane near aft CG with
no flaps and yes there was big break when it let go but as everyone says
just release some back pressure and it was flying again. I haven't done
it yet but I will some time try it near forward CG and at least some
flaps. My guess is it might not stall at all.
My point is listen to your airplane it is talking. Learn/practice on how
best to recover from an impending stall. This is a more likely situation
close to the ground than recovering from a full stall. If you do blunder
into a full stall close to the ground you might not be able to recover
quickly enough even if you practice and you will not be debating this on
THIS list.
Sorry for the long post and worth what you paid for them.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: stalls
Rick, Since I started flying in the late 60's, I've buried more than a
few pilot friends far too soon before their time. So please take this in
the context that you seem like an interesting guy and I'd like to meet
you at Monument Valley next spring.
What you are doing is very, very dangerous. The only defense against
stall spin accidents is to practice, practice, practice breaking a stall
cleanly and quickly.
Let me share an experience I had last month.
It was a nice balmy evening here on the Great Grass Desert, the wind
was from the north, my favorite since it means I can just taxi out to
runway 35 and be off. The takeoff roll was normal into an 8 mph wind and
I began a 55 mph climb out after lift off. Everything was still normal
as I passed thru 200 feet.
What happened next was either a micro shear at the treeline on the
right at midfield or a late evening thermal lifted off when I was in its
shear boundary, or something. Honestly, I'm guessing, but I've been
thrown out of thermals a lot and that's what it felt like. What I do
know is that the nose came up suddenly, completely uncommanded. The last
airspeed I saw was 40. The right wing dropped sharply and began to slip
backward. I don't really remember jamming the stick forward and stomping
on the left rudder pedal. I did, and the nose came down, the turn to the
right stopped and the aispeed was climbing back thru 50 and I pulled
back on the stick, carefully, at 60. I had lost 20 to 40 feet by the
time I resumed the climb at 65. Needless to say, I did a subconcsious
skivees check as I turned to downwind. I could feel nothing wrong with
the airplane so I continued on with my evening cruise over the farm
fields, quietly thanking every instructor and examiner who'd ever made
me demonstrate proper stall recovery.
Whether caused by weather, fuel starvation, or spatial disorientation,
the stall spin accident is still what kills the majority of pilots.
Practicing approach and departure stalls at a safe altitude is the only
real defense you have, don't disarm yourself thinking it won't happen to
me.
Rick
On 8/1/06, russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Rick
You wrote an interesting post. What I think your CFI wants is that
you have perfect control of the aircraft at any speed or angle of
bank; hence the practicing of maneuvers you may never use. Doing
figure 8's is a good example. It takes lots of coordination to
compensate for wind drift, loss of altitude, etc etc while
maintaining airspeed and altitude, and not drifting away from ground
target. Very good practice. Cuban 8's too.
I assume Kolbs and the EIS have no audible stall-warning horn? I'd
miss this -- I don't want to take my eyes away from windscreen to
look at a gauge. I've been accused (with some reason) of wearing out
the stall-warning horn -- mostly while whale-surveying at 500' or
less (Cessna 170)
With a properly-rigged aircraft you can hold the stick back (150,
170, 172, 182 etc) and she'll just drop the nose, start flying
again,
drop the nose, etc, as long as you want. You don't need to add
power, and certainly not ram the throttle forward.
Stalls may be scary but it's good to go there AT ALTITUDE and get
some experience on how it feels and know what's going to happen
next.
Russ Kinne
On Jul 31, 2006, at 5:24 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
> < NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> Richard
>
> I saw your comment about the stall recovery but I never talked
> about it with my CFI. Personally I don't like stalls. I don't do
> them and don't practice them. I know I should but... What I do is
> practice not doing them. There are a number of things that they
> have us do in the check ride that doesn't make sense to me. Yes my
> CFI also wants to see much more than a nibble or a buffet. In
> normal flight I'm never going to feel a nibble or a buffet and
> blunder on into a full blown stall. The only time this might
happen
> is when I'm close to the ground like takeoff or landing. How
> stupid? No I do practice slow flight down to the point where my
> airplane is telling me WARNING you push me any further and I will
> stall.Then I recover as quickly as possible. Another big test all
> CFIs seem to want is fly a 45 degree bank turn without gaining or
> loosing altitude. What does that do for us? Again in normal flight
> we never do this. On occasion I do high bank turns like they want
> you to do landing to the north/west at Oshkosh but I'm flying a
> approach profile not holding altitude.
>
> Granted there are some reasonable things they have us do during
the
> biannual but most of it is just a pain in the.....
>
> Maybe John W. could enlighten us. He is a CFI and I'm sure he has
> had to jump thru many more hoops as a airline captain than we have
to.
>
> Sorry I will stop my rant.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:20 PM
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike
<richard@bcchapel.org>
>>
>> Actually, what I was hoping to instigate was a dialogue comparing
>> the a Kolb stall to the typical mantra that most instructors will
>> give you when you do a power off stall in a C172 or such.
>> Something like, "As the nose drops, you ease the stick forward
>> while adding power to arrest the descent."
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>========================
=====================
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/========================
=====================
=========================
=========================
=== p; -Matt Dralle, Li>
=========================
=========================
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
"When I flew an early Firestar with the 35 hp 377, it would cruise true airspeed
of 55 mph at only 5,200 rpm and EGTs were fine. It would cruise a good bit over
60 mph at 5800-5900 rpm but was a lot noisier. And this was with a big canister
BRS hanging down in the breeze below the fuselage. However, it did have
streamlined wing struts but no leg fairings and the prop was a 60" two-blade IVO.
And, it had smallish wheelbarrow tires."
Thom, Sounds exactly, except motor size as mine, to the IVO prop. It appears from
what you stated above that there are or were two cruise speeds. Is this possible?
Like going faster until one exceeds a particular "next level" drag coefficient?
Man, that would be pretty great, I just crank that baby wide open and
get past the shudder and whammo, past the speed of sound! Seriously, is there
a second cruise speed?
And Reverend, My cockpit is closed on both sides to the point of door clearance
from the wings. It is not closed in the back.
And Rick, I am touched deeply that you would let me try one of your props. I do
believe that mine is their factory IVO prop, and believe that it is 66 inches.
Not sure of the pitch. Will check out when back to the plane.
My instructor also indicated that a change in prop would make a difference. There
goes my drug money. Soon I wont have any bad habits, my plane sucked up all
their monies!
Steady as a rock here in Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51577#51577
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "The BaronVonEvil" <grageda@innw.net>
Hi Ralph,
I have a Firestar II with a 447 and a PowerFin ground adjustable prop. I will never
claim to be an expert. At fifty-five mph indicated Im turning about 5000
rpm or so. It seems to me that you should be getting a way better performance
from your bird having a 503.
Sounds like you must be dragging buckets of cement or something. :D
I would begin by rechecking your trims and prop. Reduction ratio will make a big
difference as to how your KXP will move along. Verify your tach, it may be
reading higher than actual rpms. Also verify your airspeed indicator with a GPS.
You could be going faster than you think.
Just a few ideas to think about.
Best Regards
Carlos G
AKA The BaronVonEvil
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51578#51578
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| Subject: | Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Not that I will open my eyes to see the "Nudi's on the beach", but where is this
topic, I need a good laugh.
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51580#51580
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
WHOA, RALPH!!
What shudder? This is the first I've heard of that. Tell us more about this shudder.
It needs to be investigated first and foremost.
Mine was smooth as silk up to about 75 mph and then there was no "shudder" but
it was getting a little squirrely and very noisy. It was smooth and comfortable
at all speeds from 40 mph to about 70, just a lot noisier at the higher speeds
than the lower ones. Also, I had a complete enclosure on mine, so if your is
open, it won't go as fast as one that is open. Even with an open cockpit and
a windshield, I would think you should be able to get 60-65 easily enough with
an engine about 37% stronger than mine. When just sight seeing I cruised at
5,200 rpm and 55 mph and burned about 2.6 gph average at that speed. It also
climbed at 700 fpm with a 210 lb pilot and ten gallons of fuel, so I know the
prop was set for a good compromise between climb and cruise.
As one Kolber said, you should maybe look at your prop pitch along with the streamlining
efforts.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51582#51582
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Baron, I have two: one electronic and one mechanical, ASI's as well as two electronic
Tach's. Both are on the Flight II and Engine F-1 glass gauges, and are
correct.
I do however wonder what prop you may be using as there was a conversation on this
site and may still be on-going that talks about RPM and ASI. John H. hit the
nail on the head about my actual RPM verses ASI, our ring-ding motors do like
that 5,500 to 6,500 RPM range. Are your EGT's where they should be? What ASI
are you getting from your cruise? I would "assume" (gulp) that the 447 would
want the same kind of RPS to run effeciently.
And yes, I believe I am dragging a bucket of cement or two. Thats what I want to
work out. Not that 55 is a bad speed, but when I fly over the freeway here in
Ohio, I'd like to at least match speed. And not the my kolb won't do 85 streight,
it isn't the most effecient at doing that.
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51587#51587
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Thom, there really isn't any "shudder". What I was eluding to was when man first
exceeded the speed of sound, there was a shudder. The plane flew well up to
that point and then shook like it was coming apart and then when the sound barrier
was broken, it went back to normal.
I may have a certain sensitivity to the cruise and also have a gauge telling when
I am climbing or dropping or stable. When I pick an altitude in still air and
level off, it takes a reduction or increase in throttle to maintain that altitude.
For me, it is maintained at 55 and at 5,400-5,600 RPM. From what I read
in what you wrote (that'l make your head spin), it seemed that you had a low
and a high cruise. I must have misread your post. My comment was both serious
as in "are there two cruise speeds?" and If I keep cranking will I "attain" another
cruise speed. Now my head hurts and the winds are high here in Ohio and
the thermals are aggressive and I haven't had a fix (FLYING..PEOPLE, FLYING),
in over a week! Perhaps that's why I not making very much sense.
Ohio Ralph with the shakes!
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| Subject: | Re: Control positioning during ground handling |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
If this was true, I should be able to
| hold the stick back against the stop and be able to advance the
throttle
| aggressively and not put the FireFly on it's nose.
|
| Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack B:
This subject is getting beaten to death.
Aggressive throttle control doesn't have any place in aircraft, rotary
or fixed, real ones or UL's.
Pilot technique has a lot to do with how well a Kolb behaves.
Undoubtedly, you have your way of flying and I have mine. I'm not
telling anyone how to fly their airplane. If that is the impression I
gave in previous posts, I was wrong. I like to share how I do it, if
it works well. If it doesn't, I like to share that too, hopefully
someone will learn from it. If not, no sweat.
john h
mkIII
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
door clearance from the wings. It is not closed in the back.
|
Ralph:
Just a guess, but I would think most of your drag is being produced by
your cockpit/cabin configuration. Seems to me like you are flying
around in a big suction cup, e.g., the inclosed front and open rear
cockpit.
The original FS would fly 85 mph WOT straight and level powered by a
447. Cockpit not fully enclosed, but the rear of the fuselage was.
On my FS I put a 6 to 8" fairing, made of lexan, on the top of the
windshield. This increased airspeed by directing air over the center
section. I also flew with 4130 streamlined lift struts.
And........my 447's were cleaned up to make a little more power.
US flew 85 mph straigh and level, WOT, with a 35 hp Cuyuna. My sharp
pointed nose probably helped eliminate some drag sitting completely in
the open.
I think fabric tension has a lot to do with how well a Kolb flies.
When I shrink my fabric, I shrink it until the structure squeals.
Check out my mkIII and you will see evidence of extremely tight fabric
and bowed edges. Sometimes we don't shrink tight enough, making for a
more concave wing bottom and different shape on top of the wing. That
surely must slow us down.
The FS II does not perform nearly as well as the original FS, in my
own humble opinion based on a lot of hours flying both models.
Take care,
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
mkIII/FS/US
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| Subject: | Re: Control positioning during ground handling |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
John, and others;
I am amazed, truly amazed that there can be two different extremes that provide
the same response from the plane. And as you stated in a previous post, John,
"They all fly, very basically, the same way. I can assure you that prop blast
also hits the horizontal stabilizers, elevators, and rudder of every model,
including the two I have never flown."
All pushers, all Kolbs, all tail draggers and with the little difference of side
by side, front-back, single, as well as engine size and prop size, they all
have the same dynamics of existing physical laws to follow.
Forward stick, all the way, back stick, all the way....absolutely amazes me that
both can possibly work. This single piece of discussion exceeds any piece
of work that I have read (and I have read each and every one from the beginning).
How can that be possible?
The ONLY way that both methods can co-exist is if :
1). Everyone is talking about something completely different but the same in all
outward appearances, like downwind taxiing verses lifting off (going into the
wind). Now when I taxi down to position myself for turning around and taking
off, and there IS wind, I still am full back stick. AMAZING!
2). Controls are backward, you know lefty-loosie,righty-tighty, or mirror image
as in being levitated and looking back at yourself from without rather than within.
AMAZING!
Did I say AMAZING here in Ohio Ralph?
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "The BaronVonEvil" <grageda@innw.net>
Hi Ralph,
Here is another thought, when you get a chance please post some photos of your
bird in its present state. Sort of do a walk around of your plane so that all
us wanna be aerodynamisist can look at your plane. We may be able to spot something
here or there that might help you gain the needed speed you desire. ( We
promise to ignore the Cement bucket!).
My EGT and CHT are right where they should be. I run a 62" PowerFin composite,
ground adjustable prop that seems to be just the ticket. I have a 447 with a
B box with the 2.59 reduction. Its a pull start engine.
Looking forward to the pictures...
Best regards
Carlos G
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51603#51603
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| Subject: | Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Ralph,
Go to the OLD site.....
http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list/date.html
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51605#51605
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| Subject: | Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( |
Damn Bill, all of a sudden my life seems great.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Blumax008@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:08 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :(
Learn from this all you lightplane enthusiasts. It deals with Trikes but
the lesson is the same...don't push it! I was lucky beyond belief.
Hey,
I'll try to make this as brief as possible. Here's what happened...
Me & a good friend were out flying our Trikes. I have a Kolb too. Typical
hot, miserable, muggy, windy, buggie, shitty, deep summer Florida day.
T-storms in the vicinity. Why people flock to Florida in the summer eludes
me completely.
Me, after landing on beach, looking at video camera footage & standing
within 1 foot of my Trike with my thumb up my ass & my Trike wing angled to
windward...in other words...the wrong way it should've been angled with a
T-storm very nearby & the wind already picking up.
Continuing with my thumb up my ass & while reviewing video footage of
total bullshit...all of a sudden, a gust of wind...Trike falls over & bends
the keel tube about 20 degrees off center causing all in-flight supporting
wires on that side to have a huge amount of slack.
Me, continuing to be stupid, removes all excess equipment, gets in & flies
it (I'll fly low in case it falls apart Mike") over water, marsh & trees
back to the airport...
While flying, for some reason... could it be that the Trike has been
sitting outside for 7 years (?) & the weird pressures the wing was having to
endure to keep itself flying by the hand of an absolute idiot...the wing
fabric on the left side starts coming apart at the left end & continuing
inward causing a huge amount of control pressure correction on the right
side (Trike aka: hang glider) not to mention enough vibration to almost
shake the control bar out of my extremely tight grip.
This of course added to my scan of the bent keel, wondering if it was
bending further & wondering which was going to happen first, the keel & wing
collapsing or was the left wing fabric was going to rip itself to pieces
prior to my "very seriously in doubt & getting worse" arrival at the
airport.
I got lucky.
Me, after landing & continuing to be stupid beyond belief, asks my friend
Mike, who had just landed & was shaking his head horizontally back & forth
like I was totally out of my mind...which I was...if I can fly his Trike
back the beach to pick up the junk I had left there to make the takeoff
lighter & shorter...the only smart thing I did all day.
Another long story short...I crash Mike's Trike on landing & bend the same
friggin' keel bar on Mike's!!! My first ever crash in nearly 30 years of
flying ultralights.
His is much lighter than mine & controls much easier (no excuse). I picked
up some really crappy turbulence just as I chopped power & attempted to
land. It went sideways on me, I corrected too much, it went the other way, I
again corrected too much, was too low, too slow & with the engine at near
idle to go around...with his much smaller tires, they dug in the sand &
flipped me over onto the nose & the keel bent...the same friggin' keel I
bent on mine!
Believe it or not, I was going to FLY this f--ker back too but upon
inspection, found that his keel was bent in TWO places with one break
showing sky on the other side.
Taking it apart while sweating my ass off & getting bit to hell by sweat
bees, sand gnats etc, I'm bending down trying to figure out why in hell the
Trike frame will not collapse (for transport by boat back home...another
story). Anyway, I finally find a small piece of velcro holding up the
situation...pull it apart & WHAM!...the vertical support post falls down
onto my head...on the corner of the square post no less...& creates a gush
of blood that Dracula would swoon over as well as a huge gash & an actual
DENT in my head. Why I didn't think to get out of the way as soon as I
pulled that Velcro is beyond me.
Forgetting that Mike had put my cell phone in a pocket of his Trike, I
walk & wade a mile down a hot, miserable beach, dripping loads of blood down
my face & body & find a young lady with a cell phone & a terror stricken
face...could it be because of my condition? I call Mike & you can figure the
rest.
Did it knock any sense into me....I doubt it.
I would continue but it just gets worse....
Bill Catalina...U-2 pilot
Message 31
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| Subject: | Flaps uneven?!?! |
I am hooking up the flap horns and I noticed that both flaps stick up about
1/2 inch higher than the ailerons.... I guess the silver lining is that both
sides do it... Any thoughts on this? Has anyone else seen this?
Sorry for large pics.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
Ralph,
My original Firestar cruises at about 60-65 mph at 5,800 with a 503 DCDI.
John Murr
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 7:44 AM
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover"
> <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>
> Fantastic, Gentlemen, and thank you.
>
> Here goes:
> RPM is between 5,600 and 5,800 RPM at cruise. Struts are streamlined
> thanks to my predecessor. Gaps between all air foil hinged area are gap
> sealed, but only on one side. I believe ailerons are on the underside,
> will need to check if that makes any difference. Rudder is on the Port
> side. I noted the Preacher stated something along the lines of landing
> gear legs. What is there are round plastic tubes, who's I.D.'s are
> slightly larger than the legs themselves. They are the Kolb longer legs.
>
> I never remember experiencing the "defined" feeling of cruise when I was
> flying the Challenger. It sure is noticeable in the Kolb. Plus my
> Flightstar II climb / descend indication shows precisely where that point
> is. Sounds like the only thing left is streamlining the legs. Will that
> make any significant difference? If so, I may do it out of the Mylar
> initially.
>
> Thank you each one, again for your help. And "IS" 55 a typical cruise
> speed for the Firestar?
>
> Ohio Ralph
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51435#51435
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Flaps uneven?!?! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
David:
There is a lot of down force on the ailerons in flight. If you put
pressure on them with you hand, they will drop quite a bit. In this
configuration, flaps will help overcome some of the nose down pitch
normal with a high thrust line, especially the mkIII and a high
powered engine.
Mine are adjusted very similar.
john h
mkIII
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Aug 1, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
> On our FSII, it has a 582, and runs 55 mph at 5000 rpm. At 5800
> rpm, you better to have the nose up and be climbing.
Rich,
What diameter prop are you guys turning?
My 582 FSII 55 mph = 4700 rpm but I sacrificed some climb
performance.
I have a 72" IVO and a 2.58 B box.
Fuel burn = 2.5 gal. per hr.
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| Subject: | Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Man, I don't know what it is but I also feel relieved and at ease. I guess the
many problems I am having are really unimportant in comparison. Wow, Thanks Mike.
OOooooooo Ralph Hi, oh!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51626#51626
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| Subject: | Re: Flaps uneven?!?! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Aug 1, 2006, at 5:26 PM, David Key wrote:
> I am hooking up the flap horns and I noticed that both flaps stick
> up about 1/2 inch higher than the ailerons.... I guess the silver
> lining is that both sides do it... Any thoughts on this? Has anyone
> else seen this?
Bummer, hate when that happens!
No easy fix that I know of.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Flaps uneven?!?! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
|
|
| On Aug 1, 2006, at 5:26 PM, David Key wrote:
|
| > I am hooking up the flap horns and I noticed that both flaps stick
| > up about 1/2 inch higher than the ailerons....
| --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman
<etzim62@earthlink.net>
|
| Bummer, hate when that happens!
|
| No easy fix that I know of.
Hi Gang:
I was assuming it was the trailing edges of the flaps that were
sticking up higher than the ailerons.
Maybe David is talking about where they hang on the hinge line.
john h
mkIII
Message 38
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
We saw Miss P'Fer several times over Camp Scholler and a few times on the UL
field but I can never quite figure out how to get from the crowd portion of
the UL area to the flight line.
We did wave at you several times though, John.
Todd
On 8/1/06 10:45 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> Morning Gang:
>
> Had a good flight to OSH.
>
--
Todd Fredricks, DO
Flying Fox Services
Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com
Photos Located at http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyingfoxservices/
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 39
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
on the UL
| field but I can never quite figure out how to get from the crowd
portion of
| the UL area to the flight line.
|
| We did wave at you several times though, John.
|
| Todd
Todd:
The UL tie down/camping area leaves a lot to be desired.
Places the airplanes as far away from the spectators as possible.
To get over to where we camp, one must come through one of the gates
on the east side of the flight line, walk around the north or south
end of the UL airstrip.
I have tried to get the UL powers to be to change the policy and let
us tie down so the crowd can see our airplanes, yet also allow us to
camp with our airplanes.
It is a pain in the butt to have to walk a mile around your elbow to
get in and out every time you need something from your airplane.
john h
mkIII
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Flaps uneven?!?! |
David, I adjusted the flaps using the threaded connectors on the pushrod
ends to get the trailing edges of flaps and ailerons in line. Kolb doesn't
use a left hand thread on one end so that it acts like a turnbuckle (at
least they didn't on mine) so you have to disconnect one end to adjust them.
Also make sure the flap bellhorns are installed per the plans. The guy who
built my airplane apparently didn't understand how to align them and when I
got a touch of aileron flutter one bellhorn got into my nice new Warp Drive
and took out $500 worth of prop blades in short order.
Which leads to another suggestion, make sure you install the aileron counter
balances. If they didn't come with your kit, call Travis today and order a
set.
Rick
On 8/1/06, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>
>
> <etzim62@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Hi Gang:
>
> I was assuming it was the trailing edges of the flaps that were
> sticking up higher than the ailerons.
>
> Maybe David is talking about where they hang on the hinge line.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 41
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks <flyingfox@copper.net>
Well it was good to see you from a medium distance at any rate. Next year we
should have a good solid forward operating base at Camp Scholler so after
you walk a mile around the elbow you'll have to come by for some grilled
stuff.
Todd
On 8/1/06 8:24 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> | We saw Miss P'Fer several times over Camp Scholler and a few times
> on the UL
> portion of
>
>
> Todd:
>
> The UL tie down/camping area leaves a lot to be desired.
>
> Places the airplanes as far away from the spectators as possible.
>
> To get over to where we camp, one must come through one of the gates
> on the east side of the flight line, walk around the north or south
> end of the UL airstrip.
>
> I have tried to get the UL powers to be to change the policy and let
> us tie down so the crowd can see our airplanes, yet also allow us to
> camp with our airplanes.
>
> It is a pain in the butt to have to walk a mile around your elbow to
> get in and out every time you need something from your airplane.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Todd Fredricks, DO
Flying Fox Services
Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com
Photos Located at http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyingfoxservices/
Message 42
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Alexander" <gtalexander@att.net>
Kolbers:
Back in FL after a great week in Oshkosh and visiting with some of the Kolb family.
Attached are just a few pics of some of them.
--------
George Alexander
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51653#51653
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/oshkosh_06_john_hauck_431.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tnk_fsii_rayhill_442.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tnk_crew_donnie_travis_and_dennis_122.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/oshkosh_06_homer_kolb_187.jpg
Message 43
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "N111KX (Kip)" <n111kx@mindspring.com>
Excellent adventure, John. Thanks for all of the little the details as we all picture
ourselves experiencing the same events that make for such a memorable trip...
Kip
--------
Kip
Firestar II (born September 2000)
Atlanta, GA
N111KX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51656#51656
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Got a correction - all this talk about Firestars got the best of me, so
I went flying a little while ago. And discovered I remembered my numbers
all wrong. My apologies, and here is what it really is.
First flight, the prop had too much pitch for this hot air, made the
EGT's way too low, but the airspeed/rpm ratio was nice.
4800 rpm= 58mph
4900=60
5000=62
5300=70
5500=75
5700
The tach in the EIS was being silly around 51-5200 rpm, so no speeds
recorded there.
Landed and took 3/4 of a turn of pitch out of the Ivoprop and tried it
again, the airspeed/rpm ratio was not as good, but the EGT's were up to
normal.
4600=48
4800=51
5000=55
5200=66
5400=70
5600=75
5800=78
There is not as perfect a correlation between rpm and airspeeds as I
would like, the tach in the EIS tends not to settle at any certain rpm,
it hops around a bit, (Is this normal?) so there is a certain lack of
precision here, but I think you get the general idea.
And it has a 68" Ivo 2 blade, and a 2.58:1 gearbox. I don't know what it
burns an hour, since I am not the one that usually flies it, but it is
more than 2.5 gph.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>> On our FSII, it has a 582, and runs 55 mph at 5000 rpm. At 5800 rpm,
>> you better to have the nose up and be climbing.
>
>
> Rich,
> What diameter prop are you guys turning?
>
> My 582 FSII 55 mph = 4700 rpm but I sacrificed some climb performance.
> I have a 72" IVO and a 2.58 B box.
>
> Fuel burn = 2.5 gal. per hr.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Flaps uneven?!?! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
On Aug 1, 2006, at 7:30 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> Maybe David is talking about where they hang on the hinge line.
Looks like a hinge line problem to me.
Requires removing and reattaching the hinges.
This problem happen when rivets are set and are not exactly on the
apex of the tubes they attach to.
It is very easy to make this mistake.
I always first use a few aluminum rivets to attach each hinge and
double check the alignment before final riveting.
Replace the aluminum rivets with steel when alignment is confirmed.
Trailing edge no big problem.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Flaps uneven?!?! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
Thanks John and Richard.
I have a prop extension so my warp should be fine, but I understand the
plans anyway.
I do have the aileron counter balances. No instructions with the counter
balances. Should I just drill out the outer aileron ends and slide them in
then adjust the slide out till the aileron is inline with the bottom of the
wing?
I'm less than a month away from first flight and closing fast. I'm going to
start the engine tomorrow.
>From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flaps uneven?!?!
>Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 19:38:39 -0500
>
>David, I adjusted the flaps using the threaded connectors on the pushrod
>ends to get the trailing edges of flaps and ailerons in line. Kolb doesn't
>use a left hand thread on one end so that it acts like a turnbuckle (at
>least they didn't on mine) so you have to disconnect one end to adjust
>them.
>Also make sure the flap bellhorns are installed per the plans. The guy who
>built my airplane apparently didn't understand how to align them and when I
>got a touch of aileron flutter one bellhorn got into my nice new Warp Drive
>and took out $500 worth of prop blades in short order.
>Which leads to another suggestion, make sure you install the aileron
>counter
>balances. If they didn't come with your kit, call Travis today and order a
>set.
>
>Rick
>
>On 8/1/06, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>|
>>|
>>| On Aug 1, 2006, at 5:26 PM, David Key wrote:
>>|
>>| > I am hooking up the flap horns and I noticed that both flaps stick
>>| > up about 1/2 inch higher than the ailerons....
>>
>>
>>| --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman
>><etzim62@earthlink.net>
>>
>>|
>>| Bummer, hate when that happens!
>>|
>>| No easy fix that I know of.
>>
>>Hi Gang:
>>
>>I was assuming it was the trailing edges of the flaps that were
>>sticking up higher than the ailerons.
>>
>>Maybe David is talking about where they hang on the hinge line.
>>
>>john h
>>mkIII
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Rick Girard
>"Ya'll drop on in"
>takes on a whole new meaning
>when you live at the airport.
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
-- "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Murr" <jdm@wideworld.net>
Ralph,
My original Firestar cruises at about 60-65 mph at 5,800 with a 503
DCDI.
John Murr
John M,
Mine does the same speed at 5200 with a 447 SC and streamlined struts,
long windshield.
Ralph
Original Firestar
19 years flying it
N91493
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 7:44 AM
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover"
> <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>
> Fantastic, Gentlemen, and thank you.
>
> Here goes:
> RPM is between 5,600 and 5,800 RPM at cruise. Struts are streamlined
> thanks to my predecessor. Gaps between all air foil hinged area are
gap
> sealed, but only on one side. I believe ailerons are on the
underside,
> will need to check if that makes any difference. Rudder is on the
Port
> side. I noted the Preacher stated something along the lines of
landing
> gear legs. What is there are round plastic tubes, who's I.D.'s are
> slightly larger than the legs themselves. They are the Kolb longer
legs.
>
> I never remember experiencing the "defined" feeling of cruise when I
was
> flying the Challenger. It sure is noticeable in the Kolb. Plus my
> Flightstar II climb / descend indication shows precisely where that
point
> is. Sounds like the only thing left is streamlining the legs. Will
that
> make any significant difference? If so, I may do it out of the Mylar
> initially.
>
> Thank you each one, again for your help. And "IS" 55 a typical
cruise
> speed for the Firestar?
>
> Ohio Ralph
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51435#51435
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar cruise |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Rich,
My EIS tack seem to be steady and accurate up to 6400 rpm. Over that
it goes nuts and jumps to over 8000 rpm.
On Aug 1, 2006, at 9:22 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
> There is not as perfect a correlation between rpm and airspeeds as
> I would like, the tach in the EIS tends not to settle at any
> certain rpm, it hops around a bit, (Is this normal?) so there is a
> certain lack of precision here, but I think you get the general idea.
Message 49
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Hi George,
Thanks for sharing the picts !
Gene
On Aug 1, 2006, at 9:13 PM, George Alexander wrote:
> Kolbers:
> Back in FL after a great week in Oshkosh and visiting with some of
> the Kolb family. Attached are just a few pics of some of them.
>
> --------
> George Alexander
> http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Message 50
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|
| Subject: | Re: Control positioning during ground handling |
At 04:41 PM 8/1/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>
>
>Forward stick, all the way, back stick, all the way....absolutely
>amazes me that both can possibly work. This single piece of
>discussion exceeds any piece of work that I have read (and I have
>read each and every one from the beginning). How can that be possible?
Depends on the weather - we always - and I mean "always" check the
weather (safety first).
Message 51
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| Subject: | Pictures Not Kolb related |
Hi Gang
I thought these pictures would interest you, even though they are not
Kolb related.
While I was at the Oshkosh Fly-In I took these pictures of Gene's plane.
I also took pictures of Kolb planes which I hope to send later this
week.
Bill Vincent
Firestar II
Upper Peninsula of Michigan
Do Not Archive
... Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Gene's "Barn Yard Flyer" was powered by a Generac V-Twin. Gene says
> he is modifying it and producing 40 hp. Of course, it is turning the
> prop through a reduction drive. The airplane is so ugly it sorta
> grows on me. I like the looks of Gene sitting on the wing, climbing
> out steeply and putting around the UL pattern.
> More later,
> john h
> mkIII
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( |
At 02:49 PM 8/1/2006, you wrote:
>Bill,
>
> Talk about a bad hair day!!!
>
>Anyway, I finally find a small piece of velcro holding up the
>situation...pull it apart & WHAM!...the vertical support post falls
>down onto my head... creates a gush of blood that Dracula would
>swoon over as well as a huge gash & an actual DENT in my head. Why I
>didn't think to get out of the way as soon as I pulled that Velcro
>is beyond me.
>
>Did it knock any sense into me....I doubt it.
>
>I would continue but it just gets worse....
You could be a "Possum" too
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/DeadPossum.jpg
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :( |
I t'ink I like your jacket better. Do not Archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: possums
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Disaster at Nudie Beach! :(
At 02:49 PM 8/1/2006, you wrote:
Bill,
Talk about a bad hair day!!!
Anyway, I finally find a small piece of velcro holding up the
situation...pull it apart & WHAM!...the vertical support post falls down
onto my head... creates a gush of blood that Dracula would swoon over as
well as a huge gash & an actual DENT in my head. Why I didn't think to
get out of the way as soon as I pulled that Velcro is beyond me.
Did it knock any sense into me....I doubt it.
I would continue but it just gets worse....
You could be a "Possum" too
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/DeadPossum.jpg
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/
Message 54
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|
Anyone Know of a source for the gas cap that fits the standard 5- gallon
tank other than TNK?
Ed
Message 55
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| Subject: | Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Kolb-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
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bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "kolb-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Kolb-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Kolb-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kolb-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kolb-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kolb-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Kolb-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Kolb-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kolb
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kolb-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 56
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Ed,
Would you be interested in a used one or two? I have two old tanks that came
out of the Twinstar I sold that has the standard cap with screwed in plug
and small vent hole.
Later,
John Cooley
_____
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAquaNut@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 1:05 AM
Anyone Know of a source for the gas cap that fits the standard 5-
gallon tank other than TNK?
Ed
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
--
Message 57
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kolb-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Kolb-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kolb-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|