---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/20/06: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:59 AM - Re: S.P. Practical Test (pat ladd) 2. 04:44 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 08/19/06 (BSERBJR@aol.com) 3. 06:28 AM - 42 Practical test standards (Lanny Fetterman) 4. 07:49 AM - Re: a question (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 5. 10:03 AM - Re: a question (robert bean) 6. 10:09 AM - Re: a question (BOB BROCKMAN) 7. 10:37 AM - Re: a question (BOB BROCKMAN) 8. 10:41 AM - Re: a question (BOB BROCKMAN) 9. 10:51 AM - Re: S.P. Practical Test (Richard Girard) 10. 10:56 AM - Re: a question (John Hauck) 11. 10:59 AM - Re: a question (Richard Girard) 12. 01:07 PM - Re: S.P. Practical Test (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 13. 01:47 PM - Re: a question (The BaronVonEvil) 14. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: a question (John Hauck) 15. 02:17 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (Larry Rice) 16. 02:33 PM - Re: a question (Richard Pike) 17. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: a question (Robert Laird) 18. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: a question (David Key) 19. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: a question (BOB BROCKMAN) 20. 05:36 PM - Re: S.P. Practical Test (George Bass) 21. 06:19 PM - forward slip in Firestar (Thom Riddle) 22. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: a question (David Key) 23. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: a question () 24. 08:54 PM - Re: a question (Ed Chmielewski) 25. 09:22 PM - Re: a question (Ed Chmielewski) 26. 09:42 PM - Re: a question (Larry Cottrell) 27. 09:47 PM - Re: Re: a question (APilot@webtv.net) 28. 10:42 PM - Re: a question (Ed Chmielewski) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:04 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: S.P. Practical Test --> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" As it is an open book test I spent a lot of time finding the answers in the FAR`S.>> Hi , it sounds as though the test was pretty thorough and I am glad I shall not have to take it. However, is it really a useful test if you are allowed to look up the answers? In the cockpit you have to KNOW the answer, now, if say you have to divert and the field you need is in controlled airspace of some sort. It seems on the face of it further easement of exam standards which started with the introduction of multi choice answers which gave the examinee a one in three chance of being correct even if they had no idea at all. What do others think? Cheers Pat -- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:10 AM PST US From: BSERBJR@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 08/19/06 >From Bob _Erb-bserbjr@aol.com_ (mailto:Erb-bserbjr@aol.com) Subject- Sport pilot test I have built and am flying a Firestar II with a Rotax 503. I have been preparing for the Sport pilot exam and feel comfortable with all the maneuvers except the forward slip to a landing. Is it possible to perform this maneuver the correct way in a Firestar? Every time I try it, the plane turns in the direction of the aileron input, the nose wants to come up, not enough down to push the nose down and the plane makes a funny noise like the ailerons are fluttering but they are not. There does not seem to be enough rudder authority to straighten the flight path. Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong or should I tell the examiner the plane is not designed to do forward slips. I have recently had 15 hours of flight training in a Champ in preparation for the exam and I have no problems Forward slipping that plane. Thanks for the help-Bob ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:35 AM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: 42 Practical test standards --> Kolb-List message posted by: Lanny Fetterman Pat and all, I was tested on 42 standards during the oral segment of the test. Airspace was only one standard that I was required to know and understand. I was told that I must score 100% on the oral part of the test, that one wrong answer would fail me. ( I don`t know if that is an FAA rule or a rule that my examiner developed on his own, but that was the gun I was under.) While I felt I knew most of the answers, I was not going to risk a failure by giving a wrong answer. So I referred to the FARS. better safe than sorry! I studied more for this test then any test in my entire life, including my college days. The Federal Aviation Regulations/ Aeronautical Information Manual has 1004 pages of information in it. How can any human being be expected to commit that much information to memory? "Easement of the exam standards" I don`t know because this is the only FAA rating test I have ever taken. Flying is a hobby for me, not a vocation. On that premise, I feel this test was difficult enough, and I learned plenty in the process. Did I learn everything contained in the FARS, hardly. Pat, when you have time, would you please post a brief review of the test you took. that you are comparing to the S.P. test, I would be interested in the differences. P.S. I love my FSII, however I took the flight test in a Skyboy. What an aircraft that is! There might be something good behind the doors opened by getting the SP rating. Lanny Fetterman FSII N598LF ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:32 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Bob The Ferguson is a rip-off of the Kolb design. There was no compensation or recognition for the ideas stolen from Kolb in the design of the Ferguson. As such that plane is considered a F word on this list. Please don't ask about that plane on this list. If you would like to ask about a Kolb we would be happy to answer any questions you have. do not archive Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: BOB BROCKMAN To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:13 AM Subject: Kolb-List: a question Being a new guy, my question is concerning an aircraft similar to a Kolb. Can anyone tell me about an airplane called the Ferguson FX -4-2? I would appreciate any comments regarding the aircraft. thanks, bob ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:17 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Rick, although there are obvious similarities between makes, I have to respectfully disagree on some points. #1 are the myriad pushers out there that went for a single boom tail. #2 is the interesting carry-through of the tail boom for a cage support. #3 is the very well streamlined cabin wall design. I also like the less radical airfoil. On the minus side it appears to be less well braced in the cage area which is a biggie for me. How many airplanes look pretty much the same as a Piper Cherokee? Most of the new LSA aircraft have the look of close relatives. I would give any purchase a close inspection and vote with my wallet. A big edge for TNK is an honest, safe product, good support and the realistic probability of being around for a while. BB do not archive On 20, Aug 2006, at 10:47 AM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: > Bob > - > The Ferguson is a rip-off of the Kolb design. There was no > compensation or recognition for the ideas stolen from Kolb in the > design of the Ferguson. > As such that plane is considered a F word on this list. Please don't > ask about that plane on this list. > - > If you would like to-ask about a-Kolb we would be happy to answer any > questions you have. > - > do not archive > - > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc-- >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: BOB BROCKMAN >> To: kolb-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:13 AM >> Subject: Kolb-List: a question >> >> Being a new guy, my question is concerning an aircraft similar to a >> Kolb. >> Can anyone tell me about an airplane called the Ferguson FX -4-2? >> I would appreciate any comments regarding the aircraft. >> - >> thanks, >> - >> bob >> >> >> s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:08 AM PST US From: "BOB BROCKMAN" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" The question is, When is the Kolb going to get a nose wheel. Just don't have a heart attack! bob >From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" >To: >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question >Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:47:45 -0400 > >Bob > >The Ferguson is a rip-off of the Kolb design. There was no compensation or >recognition for the ideas stolen from Kolb in the design of the Ferguson. >As such that plane is considered a F word on this list. Please don't ask >about that plane on this list. > >If you would like to ask about a Kolb we would be happy to answer any >questions you have. > >do not archive > >Rick Neilsen >Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB BROCKMAN > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:13 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: a question > > > Being a new guy, my question is concerning an aircraft similar to a >Kolb. > Can anyone tell me about an airplane called the Ferguson FX -4-2? > I would appreciate any comments regarding the aircraft. > > thanks, > > bob > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:26 AM PST US From: "BOB BROCKMAN" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" I was not aware that there were certain questions that coludn't be asked. I saw the article in the August 2006 issue of Ultralight Flying and wanted to know how the two aicraft compare. The other people may have ripped of Kolb. I don't know. Thats not the question. I have read the information on this group for month's. Its good for the most part but, when one person gets bent out of shape over a question.... You are entitled to you opinion. bob >From: "BOB BROCKMAN" >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question >Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:08:48 -0400 > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" > >The question is, >When is the Kolb going to get a nose wheel. Just don't have a heart attack! >bob > > >>From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" >>To: >>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question >>Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:47:45 -0400 >> >>Bob >> >>The Ferguson is a rip-off of the Kolb design. There was no compensation or >>recognition for the ideas stolen from Kolb in the design of the Ferguson. >>As such that plane is considered a F word on this list. Please don't ask >>about that plane on this list. >> >>If you would like to ask about a Kolb we would be happy to answer any >>questions you have. >> >>do not archive >> >>Rick Neilsen >>Redrive VW powered MKIIIc >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: BOB BROCKMAN >> To: kolb-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:13 AM >> Subject: Kolb-List: a question >> >> >> Being a new guy, my question is concerning an aircraft similar to a >>Kolb. >> Can anyone tell me about an airplane called the Ferguson FX -4-2? >> I would appreciate any comments regarding the aircraft. >> >> thanks, >> >> bob >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:21 AM PST US From: "BOB BROCKMAN" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" Rick, I appreciate your reply. This is what I was looking for whne I asked the question. I like the Mark III Extra very much but, saw the article and figured, I'd ask the question. Thanks, bob >From: robert bean >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question >Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:02:43 -0400 > >Rick, although there are obvious similarities between makes, I have to >respectfully >disagree on some points. #1 are the myriad pushers out there that went for >a >single boom tail. #2 is the interesting carry-through of the tail boom for >a cage >support. #3 is the very well streamlined cabin wall design. >I also like the less radical airfoil. >On the minus side it appears to be less well braced in the cage area which >is >a biggie for me. >How many airplanes look pretty much the same as a Piper Cherokee? >Most of the new LSA aircraft have the look of close relatives. >I would give any purchase a close inspection and vote with my >wallet. A big edge for TNK is an honest, safe product, good support >and the realistic probability of being around for a while. >BB do not archive > >On 20, Aug 2006, at 10:47 AM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: > >>Bob >> >>The Ferguson is a rip-off of the Kolb design. There was no compensation or >>recognition for the ideas stolen from Kolb in the design of the Ferguson. >>As such that plane is considered a F word on this list. Please don't ask >>about that plane on this list. >> >>If you would like toask about aKolb we would be happy to answer any >>questions you have. >> >>do not archive >> >>Rick Neilsen >>Redrive VW powered MKIIIc >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: BOB BROCKMAN >>>To: kolb-list@matronics.com >>>Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:13 AM >>>Subject: Kolb-List: a question >>> >>>Being a new guy, my question is concerning an aircraft similar to a Kolb. >>>Can anyone tell me about an airplane called the Ferguson FX -4-2? >>>I would appreciate any comments regarding the aircraft. >>> >>>thanks, >>> >>>bob >>> >>> >>>s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >>> >> >> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:06 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: S.P. Practical Test Patt, I believe what the FAA is trying to address with the SP practical test is the level of ignorance and misinformation common in the ultralight community. From what I gather it is no more difficult than the test I took for my PPL. In the example you give, the solution is not to be fumbling about in the cockpit trying to look up FAR's, it is to plan your flight before hand, so you know the airspace into which you venture. On 8/20/06, pat ladd wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "pat ladd" > > As it is an open book test I spent a lot of time finding the answers in > the > FAR`S.>> > > Hi , > it sounds as though the test was pretty thorough and I am glad I shall not > have to take it. > > However, is it really a useful test if you are allowed to look up the > answers? In the cockpit you have to KNOW the answer, now, if say you have > to divert and the field you need is in controlled airspace of some sort. > > It seems on the face of it further easement of exam standards which > started > with the introduction of multi choice answers which gave the examinee a > one > in three chance of being correct even if they had no idea at all. > > What do others think? > > Cheers > > Pat > > > -- > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:32 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Rick, although there are obvious similarities between makes, I have to respectfully disagree on some points. #1 are the myriad pushers out there that went for a single boom tail. BB Bob B/Gang: Bill Ferguson, designer of the Ferguson aircraft, showed up at Sun and Fun 1991, with an airplane he called the Ferguson or Fergy. Looked a lot like the mkIII kit he purchased from Homer Kolb with the exception of wings and changes to the main fuselage cage. From the tip of the tailboom to the tip of the rudder, the Fergy looked exactly like the mkIII Homer Kolb had on display at S&F 2001. Ferguson had not bothered to change the tail boom and tail section. Rather than call this a Ferguson modified Kolb mkIII, Ferguson took credit for the entire airplane. This troubled Homer Kolb tremendously. He and the old Kolb crew had spent many hours and days designing a folding tail section that is still being produced today by TNK. Yes, I agree, a lot of airplanes look alike. But in this case, it went much further than resembling a mkIII. In my own opinion, the Fergy is not near the aircraft the mkIII is. I base this on my own personal observations of many of Ferguson's airplanes. However, my most convincing observation is the flight history, or should I say the crash history of a close friend's two Fergys. In both crashes, my friend was injured. In the second crash, which occurred more than a year ago, my friend is still recuperating from a near death crash which broke many bones in his body and the body of the passenger. First thing I look at in any airplane I plane to fly is crash worthiness. The environment we fly is mighty unfriendly at times, and no one is immune to gravity. I have survived several serious crashes in Homer Kolb's airplanes. I have survived each of them with no injury. Guess that's one of the reasons I feel more comfortable in my mkIII than any of the other designs out there. john h mkIII PS: Returned from Spring City, PA, last night. Had a great visit with Homer and Clara. Also was treated to the flyin of local Kolbs which has already been discussed on this List. It was my pleasure to be able to visit with these great guys. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:50 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Oh please, "don't ask that question"? If this forum isn't for the dissemination of knowledge about Kolb aircraft or copies of it, what is its use? I admit I sometimes wonder if it's actually for the rantings of pre adolescent boys who haven't taken up masterbation yet, but that's just my take. Bob, ask away, you'll soon learn who has knowledge to share and who has crusty socks. On 8/20/06, BOB BROCKMAN wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" > > I was not aware that there were certain questions that coludn't be asked. > I > saw the article in the August 2006 issue of Ultralight Flying and wanted > to > know how the two aicraft compare. The other people may have ripped of > Kolb. > I don't know. Thats not the question. > I have read the information on this group for month's. Its good for the > most > part but, when one person gets bent out of shape over a question.... > You are entitled to you opinion. > > bob > > > >From: "BOB BROCKMAN" > >To: kolb-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question > >Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:08:48 -0400 > > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" > > > >The question is, > >When is the Kolb going to get a nose wheel. Just don't have a heart > attack! > >bob > > > > > > > >>From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > >>To: > >>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question > >>Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:47:45 -0400 > >> > >>Bob > >> > >>The Ferguson is a rip-off of the Kolb design. There was no compensation > or > >>recognition for the ideas stolen from Kolb in the design of the > Ferguson. > >>As such that plane is considered a F word on this list. Please don't ask > >>about that plane on this list. > >> > >>If you would like to ask about a Kolb we would be happy to answer any > >>questions you have. > >> > >>do not archive > >> > >>Rick Neilsen > >>Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: BOB BROCKMAN > >> To: kolb-list@matronics.com > >> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:13 AM > >> Subject: Kolb-List: a question > >> > >> > >> Being a new guy, my question is concerning an aircraft similar to a > >>Kolb. > >> Can anyone tell me about an airplane called the Ferguson FX -4-2? > >> I would appreciate any comments regarding the aircraft. > >> > >> thanks, > >> > >> bob > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:22 PM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: S.P. Practical Test --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Pat, It kinda all depends on what is being tested as to whether or not it should be open book.. It should mirror the "real world" so if the question asks "what does a flashing red light mean?" then you shouldn't be allowed to go to the book. But if the question asks "How much time do you have to report an accident?" then you should since in the "real world" you'd have time to look it up. I haven't taken my practical test yet - plan to within the next month so I'll be better able to report on the oral then. AzDave Do Not Archive > > As it is an open book test I spent a lot of time finding the answers in > the FAR`S.>> > > However, is it really a useful test if you are allowed to look up the > answers? In the cockpit you have to KNOW the answer, now, if say you have > to divert and the field you need is in controlled airspace of some sort. > What do others think? > > Cheers > > Pat > > > -- > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:53 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: a question From: "The BaronVonEvil" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "The BaronVonEvil" Hi Bob, The plane nearest a Kolb mk III with a nose wheel might be a Rans S-12 Airiale. It is a capable aircraft and is also well supported by the folks at Rans. The S-12 also features a chrome moly steel cage in its structure. I have flown one here locally and it seems to be well behaved. Not having flown a Kolb Mk.III, I cannot offer a comparison. Good Luck with your inquiries... Best Regards Carlos Grageda Firestar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55930#55930 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:28 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Rans. The S-12 also features a chrome moly steel cage in its structure. | | Best Regards | Carlos Grageda | Firestar II Carlos: Best check out the Rans S-12 fuselage. I think you will find their 4130 fuselage is actually a 4130 tube shallow tub. Look closely and you will see that all upright tubes are aluminum. Most of the accident photos I have seen involving RANS S-12's results in this part of the fuselage failing down and forward on top of the pilot and passenger. Having never flown an S-12, can not comment on its flying characteristics. However, I have heard some of the earlier Rans S12's had a problem with empennage stability. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:07 PM PST US From: Larry Rice Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Spark Plugs --> Kolb-List message posted by: Larry Rice As I understand it, if you put on both the spark plug washer and the ring for the CHT, there will be exposed threads at the bottom of the tapped hole for the plug. If anyone ever puts in a plug without both, the threads on the plug will hit the now carboned up threads in the tapped hole. You can end up stripping out the tapped hole in the head, or dump loose carbon chunks into the cylinder, neither of which is a good thing. In addition, you reduce the heat lost to the head by the plug, as there is less surface area in contact with the head, giving you a hotter running plug with the strong possibility of detonation. Again, not a good thing. Larry the MicroMong guy -- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: a question From: "Richard Pike" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" There is a good reason that Kolb's don't have a nose wheel: they don't need one. I know, I checked. Here are a couple pictures I made this afternoon, went out to the hangar and pulled the MKIII nosewheel assembly off the wall and took a few pictures to convince the unbelievers. I attached it to the underside of the nosebowl, and I used the same screws that went through into the steel subframe and normally attach the nosebowl. Pitot & static air stuck out the front, with extensions coming up through the nosebowl to attach the lines to. Didn't steer, didn't figure it needed to, just wanted it to track straight ahead. I made this when I first built the MKIII, and mostly it was because I was using a 532 that I was unsure of, out of a 750' airstrip. So when I got to the top of the hill, I locked the brakes, began to advance the throttle, and gave it a little forward stick. It obediently rocked up on the nosewheel, I went to full throttle and let'er howl for about 25 seconds. Figured if she was gonna' blow, give it a good chance to do it on the ground and not over the creek. Then release the brakes, ease back on the stick, and I was off, having departed in a tricycle gear MKIII. After the engine got about twenty hours on it, I decided the engine was trustworthy (or at least to the extent that a 532 is ever trustworthy) & took the nosegear off. I did miss the wise cracks though. "Is it a nose dragger or a tail dragger?" "I dunno, I'm still trying to decide..., maybe a few more hours..." Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55937#55937 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1000749_medium_369.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1000748_medium_152.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1000746_medium_108.jpg ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:09 PM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Robert Laird" I owned and flew an S12XL for over two years. The empennage issue was addressed and for older models they have a retrofit fix. The cage structure is probably not as strong as a Kolb... the pilot is a lot more vulnerable in the RANS. The S12XL flies wonderfully. If you fly it solo, you can get away with a 503, but for 2-up, you'll need at least a 582, and a 912 would be much, much better. Compared to a Kolb MkIII, the overall mass of the S12XL feels heavier, but the flight controls are about the same. The S12XL cockpit/seat was a bit more comfortable than the Kolb I have, so I'm trying to figure out how to improve that element. I now own a MkIIIc with a 912S. If I had to have a tricycle gear aircraft, it would definitely be the S12XL. But I have my tailwheel endorsement and the Kolb, in my opinion, is a better aircraft, by just a bit. -- Robert On 8/20/06, John Hauck wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > > | It is a capable aircraft and is also well supported by the folks at > Rans. The S-12 also features a chrome moly steel cage in its > structure. > | > > Carlos: > > Best check out the Rans S-12 fuselage. I think you will find their > 4130 fuselage is actually a 4130 tube shallow tub. Look closely and > you will see that all upright tubes are aluminum. Most of the > accident photos I have seen involving RANS S-12's results in this part > of the fuselage failing down and forward on top of the pilot and > passenger. > > Having never flown an S-12, can not comment on its flying > characteristics. > > However, I have heard some of the earlier Rans S12's had a problem > with empennage stability. > > john h > mkIII > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:44 PM PST US From: "David Key" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" The Fergy I saw looked more like a Mark II than a Mark III. I guess the Fergy "inventor" didn't make enough money to buy the Mark III or else there would be a new Fergy model. Who knows maybe he's saving up for an Xtra so there's still hope for a new Fergy design. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:35 PM PST US From: "BOB BROCKMAN" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" David, The thing that started this whole "question" thing of mine, relates to an article in the August 2006 issue of Ultralight Flying. The article, which is a full page, talks about the Fergy FX-4-2 a 2 seat LSA candidate. I've had several people answer my question and a couple that made me wish, I had closed my mouth. Thanks, bob >From: "David Key" >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: a question >Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:18:13 -0500 > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" > >The Fergy I saw looked more like a Mark II than a Mark III. I guess the >Fergy "inventor" didn't make enough money to buy the Mark III or else there >would be a new Fergy model. Who knows maybe he's saving up for an Xtra so >there's still hope for a new Fergy design. > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:26 PM PST US From: "George Bass" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: S.P. Practical Test Dave Pelletier; Are there any others, in the Black Mesa Flyers, that are working toward their Sport Pilot ticket? With whom have you been working? Any chance another person could get some instruction there? I'm now able to do so, and I'm chomping at the bit to get started, so any direction from you would be gratefully appreciated. TIA, George Bass DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:42 PM PST US From: Thom Riddle Subject: Kolb-List: forward slip in Firestar --> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle Bob, I've never flown a FS II but flew an early FS for quite a while and did forward slips in that on almost every landing because I like high approaches and it did not have flaps to help steepen the glide angle. It was not a problem at all. However, based on what I keep hearing on this list, the FS II and the early FS don't handle much like each other. Nose coming up when cross controlling is normal, to which you respond with nose down pitch. Not having enough rudder to bring the nose around opposite the aileron is not normal on any airplane I've flown. I've never flown an airplane that could not be slipped for steeper glide angle. Thom in Buffalo do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:22 PM PST US From: "David Key" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" Don't take it personally, no one means anything and appreciate the frankness. If anyone is keeping score they'll know I've ask my share of questions everyone else knew the answer to. Hey, I'd consider a Fergy if the price was dirt cheap. I think the used market for knock offs is very very weak so expect a huge depreciation if you buy one of these and factor it in from the get go. I've never heard someone say I've just got to have a Fergy because it looks just like a Mark II, an old discontinued Kolb design. ;-) Wait there are two Fergies Barnstormers now, they want 18k for them!!! Ok if they get 18k for those, I'm all wrong and I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. One guy has a 503 and he's asking 17.5!!! GET REAL, it's worth 7k. One thing for sure, if I was selling a Kolb now I'd put it in both the Kolb and Fergy categories. As for the nose wheel thing, I assume you haven't flown the Kolb tailwheel-fly it first, you'll love it and you'll get to be a cool tailwheel pilot. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:06 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: > say I've just got to have a Fergy because it looks just like a Mark II, an > old discontinued Kolb design. ;-) But a bunch of us are still flying 'em! :-) Which just adds to the discussion about how good the Kolb designs are and were and continue to be. -Ken Fackler Kolb Mark II (and proud of it) / A722KWF Rochester MI do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:38 PM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" Hi Bob, If you wanted to ask about a Kolb here, fine. But I wouldn't expect any help with other brands on a brand-specific chat list. You're aware it's a blatant rip-off now, and not just a 'look-alike' of similar configuration. Sorta like a Rolex bought from a street vendor. I know of one locally that had a somewhat checkered past. Now, back to our downwind-turn and Seafoam discussions... Ed in JXN MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "BOB BROCKMAN" Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" > > I was not aware that there were certain questions that coludn't be asked. > I saw the article in the August 2006 issue of Ultralight Flying and > wanted to know how the two aicraft compare. The other people may have > ripped of Kolb. I don't know. Thats not the question. > I have read the information on this group for month's. Its good for the > most part but, when one person gets bent out of shape over a question.... > You are entitled to you opinion. > > bob > > >>From: "BOB BROCKMAN" >>To: kolb-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question >>Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:08:48 -0400 >> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" >> >>The question is, >>When is the Kolb going to get a nose wheel. Just don't have a heart >>attack! >>bob >> >> >> >>>From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" >>>To: >>>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question >>>Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:47:45 -0400 >>> >>>Bob >>> >>>The Ferguson is a rip-off of the Kolb design. There was no compensation >>>or recognition for the ideas stolen from Kolb in the design of the >>>Ferguson. >>>As such that plane is considered a F word on this list. Please don't ask >>>about that plane on this list. >>> >>>If you would like to ask about a Kolb we would be happy to answer any >>>questions you have. >>> >>>do not archive >>> >>>Rick Neilsen >>>Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:27 PM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Hi Richard, Why exactly should we offer up knowledge of cheap knock-offs? Last I looked, this is the KOLB list. As for 'crusty socks', now I know why my mouse acts funny. Thanks!! Ed in JXN MkII/503 (Real) ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Oh please, "don't ask that question"? If this forum isn't for the dissemination of knowledge about Kolb aircraft or copies of it, what is its use? I admit I sometimes wonder if it's actually for the rantings of pre adolescent boys who haven't taken up masterbation yet, but that's just my take. Bob, ask away, you'll soon learn who has knowledge to share and who has crusty socks. On 8/20/06, BOB BROCKMAN wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" I was not aware that there were certain questions that coludn't be asked. I saw the article in the August 2006 issue of Ultralight Flying and wanted to know how the two aicraft compare. The other people may have ripped of Kolb. I don't know. Thats not the question. I have read the information on this group for month's. Its good for the most part but, when one person gets bent out of shape over a question.... You are entitled to you opinion. bob ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:53 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Could the answer be : because it is polite and doesn't cost a thing to be nice. The question was asked in innocence and really did not deserve a violent response. Guidance would have been much more productive. Just a thought! Larry, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Chmielewski To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Hi Richard, Why exactly should we offer up knowledge of cheap knock-offs? Last I looked, this is the KOLB list. As for 'crusty socks', now I know why my mouse acts funny. Thanks!! Ed in JXN MkII/503 (Real) ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Oh please, "don't ask that question"? If this forum isn't for the dissemination of knowledge about Kolb aircraft or copies of it, what is its use? I admit I sometimes wonder if it's actually for the rantings of pre adolescent boys who haven't taken up masterbation yet, but that's just my take. Bob, ask away, you'll soon learn who has knowledge to share and who has crusty socks. On 8/20/06, BOB BROCKMAN wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" I was not aware that there were certain questions that coludn't be asked. I saw the article in the August 2006 issue of Ultralight Flying and wanted to know how the two aicraft compare. The other people may have ripped of Kolb. I don't know. Thats not the question. I have read the information on this group for month's. Its good for the most part but, when one person gets bent out of shape over a question.... You are entitled to you opinion. bob ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:38 PM PST US From: APilot@webtv.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: a question --> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net Some years back, I saw a number of Fergusons at Cartersville airport in Georgia. I went to a EAA or ultralight meeting (can't remember which) there were some negative comments about the Kolbs and sort of a jealous attitude toward the Ferguson. I asked a couple of questions and got put down. Anyway, I eventually chose the Kolb Classic Mk III, it flies very nice and I am quite proud of it. Is it better than some other airplanes? To me it is one of the very best for enjoying the beauty of flight and it seems very forgiving. Mine is not very fast, but it sure is pleasant. Vic in Sacramento ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:29 PM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Hi Larry, Sorry if my response was percieved as 'violent'. (WTF??) Was meant as a direct answer. I don't see the need to inform on poser aircraft of which I have no knowledge. If that's too 'violent', so be it. I guess feel-good PC skills aren't my specialty - thank GOD! Must be the crusty mouse... Ed in JXN HTG MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Cottrell To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:42 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Could the answer be : because it is polite and doesn't cost a thing to be nice. The question was asked in innocence and really did not deserve a violent response. Guidance would have been much more productive. Just a thought! Larry, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Chmielewski To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Hi Richard, Why exactly should we offer up knowledge of cheap knock-offs? Last I looked, this is the KOLB list. As for 'crusty socks', now I know why my mouse acts funny. Thanks!! Ed in JXN MkII/503 (Real) ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: a question Oh please, "don't ask that question"? If this forum isn't for the dissemination of knowledge about Kolb aircraft or copies of it, what is its use? I admit I sometimes wonder if it's actually for the rantings of pre adolescent boys who haven't taken up masterbation yet, but that's just my take. Bob, ask away, you'll soon learn who has knowledge to share and who has crusty socks. On 8/20/06, BOB BROCKMAN wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "BOB BROCKMAN" I was not aware that there were certain questions that coludn't be asked. I saw the article in the August 2006 issue of Ultralight Flying and wanted to know how the two aicraft compare. The other people may have ripped of Kolb. I don't know. Thats not the question. I have read the information on this group for month's. Its good for the most part but, when one person gets bent out of shape over a question.... You are entitled to you opinion. bob s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List