---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/04/06: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:33 AM - Re: Propellers - IVO or Warp (David Lucas) 2. 05:05 AM - Re: Need new Prop (chris davis) 3. 06:18 AM - Re: Need new Prop (David.Lehman) 4. 07:14 AM - Re: Need new Prop (planecrazzzy) 5. 11:36 AM - Bill Herrin (Larry Bourne) 6. 12:08 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (robert bean) 7. 12:13 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (Gherkins Tim-rp3420) 8. 12:31 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (John Hauck) 9. 12:49 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (WillUribe@aol.com) 10. 01:13 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (WillUribe@aol.com) 11. 01:18 PM - Fw: Bill Herrin (John Hauck) 12. 01:22 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (WillUribe@aol.com) 13. 02:26 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (APilot@webtv.net) 14. 05:05 PM - Re: 1st flight in the firestar (HShack@aol.com) 15. 05:12 PM - Re: First Flight (HShack@aol.com) 16. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Propellers - IVO or Warp (HShack@aol.com) 17. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: A sleepless night (WillUribe@aol.com) 18. 05:54 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (WillUribe@aol.com) 19. 05:56 PM - Vamoose (Larry Bourne) 20. 05:59 PM - Test post (WillUribe@aol.com) 21. 06:01 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (WillUribe@aol.com) 22. 06:07 PM - () 23. 06:59 PM - Re: Bill Herrin (ruscok) 24. 08:15 PM - Stall Question (David Key) 25. 08:40 PM - Re: Stall Question (Richard Girard) 26. 08:46 PM - Re: Vamoose (Larry Bourne) 27. 10:57 PM - Another test post (WillUribe@aol.com) 28. 11:05 PM - Re: Re: A sleepless night (WillUribe@aol.com) 29. 11:10 PM - Re: Flying Rivers (WillUribe@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:33:01 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Propellers - IVO or Warp From: "David Lucas" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Lucas" There's quite a good article on Prop balance, harmonics etc on this weeks AvWeb 'MotorHead' column (#15) Just helps one appreciate the factors that make for a smooth engine/prop combination. David. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59338#59338 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:01 AM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Need new Prop Shay, Glad to hear that Bob sold his ,plane I made a deal and made a down payment and was ready n to pick it up when I was in a terrible crash with Norm at TNK . He gave my wife the check back after the crash . Its a besutiful aircraft and I hope you enjoy it ;Fair wind Chris Davis Seamus Jones wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Seamus Jones" Thanks for alll the insight on my prop purchase...........I bought this Mark III (Miss B) from Bob Brocious in Kentucky who not only sold me a great plane but threw in some sound advice for free, this Kolb-list being one of them. Thanks again for the responses and thanks in advance for future responses I will have as a new rookie Kolb owner. Shay J. >From: Richard Pike >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Need new Prop >Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 01:57:45 -0400 > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike > >Go with an Ivo 2 blade, 68", and you will have a good prop and a smooth >flight, and good performance. That is the combination I am using on mine. >After trying several Warp Drive, Ivo and Kiev Hot Prop options, an Ivo 2 >blade 68" prop gives the best overall compromise between a great climb and >a great cruise for a MKIII with a 582 with a B box, 2.58:1 ratio. Be sure >you get the hub extension. And you may need to make up some motor mount >extensions to raise your engine about an inch higher to get sufficient >clearance between the prop and the main tube. >If you get the Ivo 66" three blade, you will get more acceleration from a >standing start, (it will be awesome out of the hole) but I will pretty much >match you on climb, and outrun you top end. And at cruise, I will be about >three or four hundred RPM less than you for a given airspeed. You don't >want that. You want an engine that runs at less than 75% power at cruise, >which is 5600 rpm or less, and you won't get that with what you are >currently planning. Guess how I know this? (Been there, done that, the >T-shirt is in the rag box...) > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Seamus Jones wrote: >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Seamus Jones" >> >>Hello All, >> >>I have recently purchased a 2003 Kolb Mark III with a Rotax 582, B gearbox >>with 2,58 gear ratio Minus a prop. Needles to say I'm in the market for a >>new one. I researched some and have narrowed my selection down to the IVO >>66" 3 blade prop. However, \I would like any wisdom anyone would share >>on the subject. >> >>Thank You for your time, >> >>Shay Jones >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! >>http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Need new Prop From: "David.Lehman" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David.Lehman" [quote="Ed in JXN"]Hi David, Which belt redrive was it? I'd suspect the redrive, and switch to the proper gearbox. Haven't heard of any GB's letting the prop depart the aircraft. Ed in JXN MkII/503 > --- Hi Ed... I don't know the manufacturer of the belt drive... I think this Kolb is/was an excellent example of "you get what you pay for"... If it ever flies again, it will be with a gearbox, or direct drive, no more belt drives for me... DVD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59353#59353 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cimg1063sm_774.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/cimg1062sm_186.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:25 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Need new Prop From: "planecrazzzy" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" Hi Dave, Sounds like your starting to get over you "GA thoughts" and back thinking of what your gonna do to gitter back in the air.... The close-up picture that you sent me of the shaft really shows where the shaft has been fractured half way already ( rusted ) It might have been like that when you bought it.... When you put a Gearbox on , you'll be able to lower your Engine back down to stock height....Then it should "Fold" properly.... Gotta Fly... Mike in MN .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59361#59361 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:36 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Bill Herrin, of Pineville, LA was taking off in his little Luscombe from Ocala, FL yesterday evening with his daughter on board and apparently lost power at low altitude and crashed into a field. Neither survived the crash. I have no other details. Bill didn't say much on the Kolb List, but thoroughly enjoyed the conversations and followed it closely. We became friends years ago thru the List, I've visited him twice in "Lousy-ana," and he visited me here in Furnace Springs on his way home from Monument Valley. He realized a lifetime dream earlier this year when he flew his Luscombe from coast to coast, with a stop to visit us in Monument Valley last May. Bill was a good friend. He'll be missed. Lar. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:42 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin A moment of silence from this end.................... On 4, Sep 2006, at 2:34 PM, Larry Bourne wrote: > I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news.- Bill Herrin, of Pineville, LA > was taking off in his-little Luscombe-from Ocala, FL yesterday evening > with his-daughter on board and apparently lost power at low altitude > and crashed into a field.- Neither survived the crash.- I have no > other details.- > - > Bill didn't say much on the Kolb List, but thoroughly enjoyed the > conversations and followed it closely.- We became friends years ago > thru the List, I've visited him twice in-"Lousy-ana," and he visited > me here in Furnace Springs on his way home from Monument Valley.- He > realized a lifetime dream earlier this year when he flew his Luscombe > from coast to coast, with a stop to visit us in Monument Valley last > May. > - > Bill was a good friend.- He'll be missed.---------- ------------ Lar. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:29 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin From: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" Larry, That is sad news. It was a pleasure to meet Bill and spend some time with him at MV. He will be missed. Tim and uncle Craig do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bourne Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 11:35 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Bill Herrin, of Pineville, LA was taking off in his little Luscombe from Ocala, FL yesterday evening with his daughter on board and apparently lost power at low altitude and crashed into a field. Neither survived the crash. I have no other details. Bill didn't say much on the Kolb List, but thoroughly enjoyed the conversations and followed it closely. We became friends years ago thru the List, I've visited him twice in "Lousy-ana," and he visited me here in Furnace Springs on his way home from Monument Valley. He realized a lifetime dream earlier this year when he flew his Luscombe from coast to coast, with a stop to visit us in Monument Valley last May. Bill was a good friend. He'll be missed. Lar. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:50 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" Bill was a good friend. He'll be missed. Lar. *********************** Sorry to hear this. Talked to Bill a few days ago. He pitched his tent next to mine at MV. Every time I turned around to use my chair, Bill had it over at his tent. ;-) Bill made up for stealing my chair by buying my dinner at MV, a Taco Salad. He kept me up to date on the progress he was making from the time he got the idea of buying the Luscombe to soloing it home from PA. I did not know his daughter. Could not find any info on the local Gainesville/Ocala/Orlando news, papers or TV. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:54 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin 24a.c9b8536_alt_bound-- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:34 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin 2a6.78640000_alt_bound-- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:12 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Fw: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin Gang: Will tried to post this earlier, but the Kolb List would not accept it. john h ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin | _Click here: Small plane plunges into field, kills 2 | Ocala.com | | Star-Banner | Ocala, Fla._ | (http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060904/NEWS/209040348/1025) | | | That is just such sad news. He spent the night on his way back from Monument | Valley. Here are some pictures I took the day he departed back home. | | | | ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:13 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin I don't know why my posts are bouncing but let me try one more time. That is just such sad news. He spent the night on his way back from Monument Valley. Attached are some pictures I took the day he departed back home. Article published Sep 4, 2006 Small plane plunges into field, kills 2 BY MILLARD K. IVES STAR-BANNER Medical examiner Dona Faber, left, Inspector Mike Mongeluzzo and Deputy Art King examine a plane crash in Marion Oaks off County Road 484 Sunday. MORGAN PETROSKI/STAR-BANNER MARION OAKS - Two people were killed late Sunday afternoon after their antique two-seater plane crashed in a peanut field. According to a witness, Richard McGinley, the 1946 Luscombe 8A had landed on his family's private airstrip on County Road 484. It took back off and was about 90 feet in the air when it appeared to stall. He said the single-engine plane looked as if it was trying to turn back to the airstrip when it nose-dived into the field. The two unidentified occupants died on the scene. "It banked to the left, went down and baboom!," said McGinley, using his right hand to simulate the crash. The medical examiner and Marion County Sheriff's Office investigators were examining the wreckage of the grey plane, which has blue stripes, Sunday evening as firefighters stood in the background. The plane's wings were left intact but crumpled during impact. The nose took the brunt of the impact and was partially caved in. Officials from the Federal Aviation Administration were expected to be on the scene late Sunday night. Capt. James Pogue, a Sheriff's Office spokesman, said the plane is registered in Louisiana. A search on the FAA's Web site indicated the plane is registered to William D. Herren, of Pineville, La. Officials were still trying late Sunday to identify the occupants and where they live. The crash was reported to 911 at about 5:30 p.m. and occurred just west of Marion Oaks in a giant peanut field, which is about a mile and a half long. McGinley, whose family owns the field, said he was eating dinner in a house in the field, located on the south side of CR 484. He noticed an unfamiliar pl ane had landed on his family's private airstrip on the north side of CR 484. McGinley said he began to drive to the airstrip. But before he could reach the plane, it had taken back off. He then saw it crash. McGinley said when he approached the downed plane, both occupants appeared to be unconscious. "I knew there was nothing I could do," McGinley said. Millard K. Ives may be reached at millard.ives@starbanner.com or (352) 387-2488. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:18 PM PST US From: APilot@webtv.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin --> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net So sorry to hear about the death of two more people in a Luscombe. As some of you know, my Son and one of his students was killed in 2001 in a Luscombe. His engine failure was due to fuel starvation when he had over 1/3 of a tank of fuel. The FAA is, and has been for years, aware of this problem in all Luscombes that do not have wing tanks to feed the fuel to the engine. What the FAA has done, and will not fix, is publish an Advisory Circular which requires a decal on the instrument panel which says something to the effect that all takeoffs are to be made with carb heat on. I believe that most of you pilots will agree with me that this in one stupid AC. Most of us who fly with passengers or a full load want all the power that we can get. Pulling on the carb heat is not what we do because it cost 100 or more rpms. Anyway, I strongly suggest an independent analysis of this recent accident because the NTSB, especially in the Atlanta Office, is either incompetent or have some other agenda than discovering the truth and saving lives. I know that I sound a little bitter. How many of you have lost your Son and best friend and go around happy as a lark? By the way: The Advisory Circular is: A-694 rev. 23 Vic Gibson (Sacramento) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:10 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 1st flight in the firestar In a message dated 9/1/2006 9:27:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Arksey@aol.com writes: wow how it will climb with the 503.I consider it overpowered, but n ice to have that performace when you want it. I was a bit surpri My first FS II with 503 flight I thought it was overpowered, too, but soon you'll get used to being able to outclimb all those Challengers. Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:16 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight In a message dated 9/2/2006 8:04:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, davistcs@eoni.com writes: It turns 6400 in climb, 6600 level flight with a full power EGT of 950, cruise at 58 to 6000 has a EGT of about 1070 - 1100 and CHT of 280 - 300. Just about perfect I think. The prop pitch really does control EGT after all, seeing is believing. Mid range decents at 4200 to 5400 spike the EGT up closer to 1200 pretty fast, good thing to avoid. In think you need another 1/2 degree of pitch........ Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:22 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Propellers - IVO or Warp In a message dated 9/2/2006 12:32:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, N27SB@aol.com writes: It just is not suitable for Seaplanes. But the Kiev seems ideal....... Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:10 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: A sleepless night 4bb.80c6b86_alt_bound-- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:29 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin 24a.c9b8536_alt_bound-- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:48 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Vamoose As of this morning, Vamoose is up and running again. Ran about 10 minutes, and so far no oil leaks. Lookin' good. Now the real fun starts. Not sure if this will apply to Rotax engines, but this VW with redrive has quite a few starts on it without a prop, and so long as I'm very careful with the throttle it seems to be fine. Lar. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:27 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Test post 3fb.12224300_alt_bound-- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:32 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Herrin _Click here: Small plane plunges into field, kills 2 | Ocala.com | Star-Banner | Ocala, Fla._ (http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060904/NEWS/209040348/1025) That is just such sad news. He spent the night on his way back from Monument Valley. Here are some pictures I took the day he departed back home. One more try _Click here: Small plane plunges into field, kills 2 | Ocala.com | Star-Banner | Ocala, Fla._ (http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060904/NEWS/209040348/1025) That is just such sad news. He spent the night on his way back from Monument Valley. Here are some pictures I took the day he departed back home. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:05 PM PST US ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:57 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Bill Herrin From: "ruscok" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ruscok" Sorry to hear the bad news. Although I did not know Bill, everytime we hear of an aviation accident it hits home to all of us.. Everytime I hear of a aviation accident, I try to learn everything I can from it. We all recently learned of the airline accident in Lexington, KY which intrigued me of how something like that could happen, but we all know it only takes one mistake for things to go bad, which had prompted me to brush up on stalls and load factors and other related items. Recently I came across a very interesting article on a website that I often visit just to read about information. I thought I would share it with all of you, so I attached it. I put it in PDF format so that everyone could view it. If you cant view it, you will have to download adobe acrobat, which is free off from adobes site.Also the website in case you all want to visit it is www.overtheairwaves.com Again, sorry to hear the bad news... Kendall Firestar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59508#59508 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/stalls_278.pdf ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:30 PM PST US From: "David Key" Subject: Kolb-List: Stall Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" Say I had a stall warning device on my wing that went off at 40 mph. Then lets say I turned downwind to base at a 75% degree turn at 55mph. I would stall because of the increased G loads but would the stall warning device go off? ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:27 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Stall Question David, Seems like a "how long is a piece of string" question. The simple answer is no, if it's set for 40 it won't go off at 55. If it's an impact device like an airspeed indicator in reverse, 55 knots worth of air molecules would keep the device from triggering. With a little clever engineering you could add a sliding door or similar way to close down the opening so that at 55 and 2G's you get only 40 knots worth of air molecules and the device triggers. Fun thought experiment, thanks. Rick On 9/4/06, David Key wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" > > Say I had a stall warning device on my wing that went off at 40 mph. Then > lets say I turned downwind to base at a 75% degree turn at 55mph. I would > stall because of the increased G loads but would the stall warning device > go > off? > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:54 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vamoose --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" You don't cool it without a prop. That's why only 10 minutes - and that at low rpms and no load. :-) Even at that, CHT was under 350 when I shut it down. Prob'ly the oil cooling it....?? Do not Archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 6:04 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vamoose > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > > Not sure if this will apply to Rotax engines, but this VW with redrive > has quite a few starts on it without a prop, and so long as I'm very > careful with the throttle it seems to be fine. > Lar. > > *************** > > How do you cool a VW without a prop? 10 minutes run time seems about > enough to overheat, with no air going over it. > > john h > mkIII > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:35 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Another test post Sorry for all the test posts but Matt has been troubleshoot why my e-mails don't get posted. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:37 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: A sleepless night --> Kolb-List message posted by: "john s. flannery" Not into being an alarmist, but found this a while back and haven't heard a Kolber raise a peep about boom inspection. Nor do I know how to go about that task. Doubt the feds have followed up on booms generally. I have dealt with major aluminum corrosion previously and one old pilot and rebuilder said I saved him money. Said he wouldn't have to send flowers to my funeral. _http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/drifter-structuralfailure.htm_ (http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/drifter-structuralfailure.htm) jsf Do not archive. John, This is from the Rans website. _Click here: RANS Aircraft Main Page_ (http://www.rans.com/Alerts/AD131.htm) Airworthiness Directive: 131 Subject: Tail Boom Compliance: Mandatory Models Effected: All S-12 Airailes with Serial Numbers Before 01950000 Inspection of the tail boom on all Airaile models should be conducted at the earliest possible date and prior to the next flight. The inspection is to determine: Installation of the tail boom doubler sleeve. Inspect the inside of the boom to visually confirm the presence of a boom doubler sleeve. If there is not a boom doubler sleeve present, the aircraft is to be grounded and the boom replaced with a tail boom with the doubler sleeve. Flight is not recommended for any version of the Airaile aircraft not equipped with a boom doubler sleeve. The boom doubler sleeve can be viewed from the tail end of the boom using a powerful flashlight. See drawing below for location. Visually inspect the presence and integrity of the plastic strip installed between the collar and tail boom. Take proper corrective action to replace or reposition protective plastic strip. If no corrosion is present around the collar, remove boom for inspection under the surface of the collar. No corrosion should be present. Replace boom if corrosion is present. General inspection of tail boom at all points of attachment and total surface area for: the presence of corrosion inside and out, cracks, nicks, dents, holes, or any deformation. Replace boom as required. This inspection procedure is required at each annual condition inspection. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Hopefully we have not inconvenienced you to any great degree. Fly safe. Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:30 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying Rivers The Rio Grande has never been this full, another test post.