Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - Re: Oil Pressure question (Thom Riddle)
2. 04:50 AM - Re: Oil Pressure (APilot@webtv.net)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: Oil Pressure (Larry Bourne)
4. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: Kolb building advisors (Larry Bourne)
5. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure question (David Key)
6. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Bill Herrin (N27SB@aol.com)
7. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure question (Richard Girard)
8. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure question (Richard Girard)
9. 07:00 AM - Re: 180 degree turn (Gherkins Tim-rp3420)
10. 07:00 AM - Re: Stall Question (N27SB@aol.com)
11. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure question (David Key)
12. 07:19 AM - need firestar II or 503 for sale (Hedrick)
13. 07:22 AM - Re: Stall Question (John Hauck)
14. 07:29 AM - Re: Stall Question (N27SB@aol.com)
15. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure question (David Key)
16. 07:56 AM - Re: Stall Question (Ed Chmielewski)
17. 08:04 AM - Re: Oil Pressure question (Ed Chmielewski)
18. 08:13 AM - Re: Oil Pressure (Ed Chmielewski)
19. 08:23 AM - Re: Stall Question (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
20. 08:37 AM - kolblist : stall question (john s. flannery)
21. 08:57 AM - Re: Oil Pressure question (N27SB@aol.com)
22. 08:57 AM - Re: need firestar II or 503 for sale (Richard Girard)
23. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure question (Richard Girard)
24. 09:33 AM - Re: kolblist : stall question (Guy Morgan)
25. 09:54 AM - aft W & B (David Key)
26. 10:09 AM - New video (N111KX (Kip))
27. 10:37 AM - Re: kolblist : stall question (lhaggerty)
28. 10:38 AM - Re: 180 degree turn (Thom Riddle)
29. 10:40 AM - Re: kolblist : stall question (John Hauck)
30. 10:49 AM - Re: aft W & B (Richard Girard)
31. 11:20 AM - Re: kolblist : stall question (Guy Morgan)
32. 11:45 AM - elevator cables -- was Oil Pressure question (Eugene Zimmerman)
33. 11:55 AM - Re: aft W & B (David Key)
34. 12:33 PM - Firestar crash (olendorf)
35. 01:51 PM - Re: Firestar crash (robert bean)
36. 02:29 PM - Re: Firestar crash (Chuck)
37. 02:30 PM - Re: Firestar crash (Chuck)
38. 03:11 PM - Re: Firestar crash (Chris Mallory)
39. 03:36 PM - Re: Firestar crash (Chuck)
40. 04:16 PM - Re: aft W & B (APilot@webtv.net)
41. 04:32 PM - Re: New video (George Alexander)
42. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Stall Question (APilot@webtv.net)
43. 04:56 PM - Re: elevator cables -- was Oil Pressure question (David Key)
44. 05:44 PM - xc (David Key)
45. 06:22 PM - the stall I never forgot..jswan (Arksey@aol.com)
46. 06:22 PM - Micro-Surface finishing products (Bob Noyer)
47. 07:02 PM - Re: the stall I never forgot..jswan (Bob Noyer)
48. 07:10 PM - Re: New video (N111KX (Kip))
49. 07:19 PM - Re: Micro-Surface finishing products (john s. flannery)
50. 07:44 PM - Re: aft W & B (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
51. 07:50 PM - Re: xc ()
52. 07:55 PM - Re: Micro-Surface finishing products (Bob Noyer)
53. 08:05 PM - Re: xc (John Hauck)
54. 08:28 PM - Re: xc (APilot@webtv.net)
55. 09:32 PM - Re: aft W & B (David Key)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure question |
David,
...It pitches up in the stall now and it's easy to see and feel....
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that when it stalls
the nose pitches up? Or are you saying that when pitching up the nose
(using elevator) that it stalls? If the nose pitches up in response to
a stall, rather than as the cause of the stall, you have a problem.
After a stall, nose should fall down and if the wings are fairly level
and you are not yawed to badly, the airplane will start flying again
immediately. If it automatically pitches up in response to a stall,
this is dangerous, perhaps being caused by a way too aft CG.
I hope I misunderstood you.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net
Here is a question for Kolbers. My Mk III Classic feeds fuel to the
fuel injected Geo engine via a high pressure pump. Therefore, the hoses
must be secure and the electric wires to the pump must be tight. And,
of course, the pump must not break. My guess is that there is no way to
have a redundant back up system. Am I right? My 582 Rotax on my Kitfox
quit one time when it was parked up hill and the fuel in the header tank
drained back into the wing tank. It quit on takeoff. No damage
thankfully.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I've got a redundant high pressure fuel system on my fuel injected VW
powered Mk III Classic. I also have a fuel pressure gauge and switches to
select either or both pumps. The system runs at 40 psi. Take a look at the
"Seats & Fuel System" page on my website, under "Building Vamoose." Just
click on the link in my signature at the end of this post.
I have found - the hard way - that the pumps must be "exercised"
periodically or they will jam up, possibly from fuel gumming up inside.
Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: <APilot@webtv.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oil Pressure
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net
>
> Here is a question for Kolbers. My Mk III Classic feeds fuel to the
> fuel injected Geo engine via a high pressure pump. Therefore, the hoses
> must be secure and the electric wires to the pump must be tight. And,
> of course, the pump must not break. My guess is that there is no way to
> have a redundant back up system. Am I right? My 582 Rotax on my Kitfox
> quit one time when it was parked up hill and the fuel in the header tank
> drained back into the wing tank. It quit on takeoff. No damage
> thankfully.
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb building advisors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I hear and understand what you're saying, but please be patient. I've been
a member of this Forum for something like 9 years now, and have learned a
lot, made many new friends, and like to think I've helped others from time
to time. In this past year, it seems like there've been a few bad mannered
people show up who've made it unpleasant for everyone. This seems to have
eased off, and the warm atmosphere has returned and is very welcome. Let's
hope those "slammers" stay gone. Bear with us. Most people on this List
are good folks. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: <APilot@webtv.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:46 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb building advisors
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net
>
> Yes, you are right. Many folks have lots to say about our trials in
> building the Kolb. I really enjoyed listening to all of the advice and
> even some of the criticism. To sift through the remarks and information
> was a challenge, to be sure. But, many had helpful remarks and
> suggestions. I thank them all. Even those who tried to be helpful who
> were not fully informed.. Building a Kolb or any other aircraft is not
> an easy thing, in my opinion. I have found that there seems to be more
> critics than there are builders.
> Vic in Sacramento
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
Restated...
When I pull back on the stick the plane pitches up then stalls. It didn't
pitch up much before.
do not archive
>From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:47:16 -0400
>
>David,
>
>...It pitches up in the stall now and it's easy to see and feel....
>
>Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that when it stalls the
>nose pitches up? Or are you saying that when pitching up the nose (using
>elevator) that it stalls? If the nose pitches up in response to a stall,
>rather than as the cause of the stall, you have a problem.
>
>After a stall, nose should fall down and if the wings are fairly level and
>you are not yawed to badly, the airplane will start flying again
>immediately. If it automatically pitches up in response to a stall, this is
>dangerous, perhaps being caused by a way too aft CG.
>
>I hope I misunderstood you.
>
>Thom in Buffalo
>do not archive
Message 6
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In a message dated 9/6/2006 2:28:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
APilot@webtv.net writes:
The FAA
recommends teaching a pilot to land more or less straight ahead.
AP,
I just realized that in the past two years I have not had to land on
anything straight and narrow. The Seaplane Program at Brown's actually do teach
you
to approach and land at a significant bank. Seemed odd at first but now feels
normal. I guess in the good old days when airports were a big round field
this was also common.
steve b
Firefly on floats
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure question |
David, Have you done a weght and balance check?
Rick
On 9/6/06, David Key <dhkey@msn.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> Restated...
> When I pull back on the stick the plane pitches up then stalls. It didn't
> pitch up much before.
>
> do not archive
>
>
> >From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
> >To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
> >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:47:16 -0400
> >
> >David,
> >
> >...It pitches up in the stall now and it's easy to see and feel....
> >
> >Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that when it stalls the
> >nose pitches up? Or are you saying that when pitching up the nose (using
> >elevator) that it stalls? If the nose pitches up in response to a stall,
> >rather than as the cause of the stall, you have a problem.
> >
> >After a stall, nose should fall down and if the wings are fairly level
> and
> >you are not yawed to badly, the airplane will start flying again
> >immediately. If it automatically pitches up in response to a stall, this
> is
> >dangerous, perhaps being caused by a way too aft CG.
> >
> >I hope I misunderstood you.
> >
> >Thom in Buffalo
> >do not archive
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure question |
Darn, hit the send button too soon. I meant to say, have you done a weight
and balance at forward and aft extremes?
Rick
On 9/6/06, David Key <dhkey@msn.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> Restated...
> When I pull back on the stick the plane pitches up then stalls. It didn't
> pitch up much before.
>
> do not archive
>
>
> >From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
> >To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
> >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:47:16 -0400
> >
> >David,
> >
> >...It pitches up in the stall now and it's easy to see and feel....
> >
> >Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that when it stalls the
> >nose pitches up? Or are you saying that when pitching up the nose (using
> >elevator) that it stalls? If the nose pitches up in response to a stall,
> >rather than as the cause of the stall, you have a problem.
> >
> >After a stall, nose should fall down and if the wings are fairly level
> and
> >you are not yawed to badly, the airplane will start flying again
> >immediately. If it automatically pitches up in response to a stall, this
> is
> >dangerous, perhaps being caused by a way too aft CG.
> >
> >I hope I misunderstood you.
> >
> >Thom in Buffalo
> >do not archive
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 9
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| Subject: | : Kolb-List:180 degree turn |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" <rp3420@freescale.com>
Vic,
I'm interested in the 180 degree turn, how do you do it properly? Just
looking to see what tips were taught. Appreciate you sharing them.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
APilot@webtv.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Bill Herrin
--> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net
re: 180 degree return to the runway. When we teach sailplane techniques,
we advise the pilot to call, out loud, his altitude on climb out. If he
is skilled at a 180 degree turn, then he knows exactly when he can make
it back to the runway. My super, first instructor, Amelia Reid, taught
me how to do it. My first try was in a Cessna 150, I lost 600 feet to
get it around. Later, after many, many practices, I got the 150 back to
the runway after a loss of only 100 ft of altutude. I was able to do
the same 180 degree turn with only a 50 ft loss of altutude in my PA-11
Cub Special. The point is: Learn to do the 180 degree turn correctly.
Call out your altitudes on every take off and do not take chances. If
the engine quits and you have the altitude that you are proficient in
the return to runway procedure; then, by all means land on the runway.
If you do not have the altitude and there is no more runway to land on,
then take your chances and land as the FAA recommends. The FAA
recommends teaching a pilot to land more or less straignt ahead.
Drrrrr. They also do not required spin training for a private ticket.
Why not learn techniques to save your life? Maybe it is not easy, but
is it worth the practice?
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Stall Question |
In a message dated 9/5/2006 10:03:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
Through experience, demonstrating the MKIII, back in the good old
days, it was extremely difficult, and most of the time, impossible to
get the MKIII into an accelerated stall, intentionally. john h.
That makes sense John. When I first started flying the Fire on floats turns
felts odd and I had a tendency to "milk
' around a turn with a shallow bank and too much rudder. Bryan M. saw this
from the ground and recommended that I try this: Drop the nose a bit, rock in
about 45 deg of bank and Haul Back on the stick. The airplane turns on a dime
with no tendency to stall. It feels a lot like doing a hook turn on a slalom
ski around a float. Why does a Kolb do this and most other AC do not?
steve b
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
yes. Please contact me directly for direct questions.
>From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 08:44:40 -0500
>
>David, Have you done a weght and balance check?
>
>Rick
>
>On 9/6/06, David Key <dhkey@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>>
>>Restated...
>>When I pull back on the stick the plane pitches up then stalls. It didn't
>>pitch up much before.
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>> >From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>> >To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> >Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
>> >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:47:16 -0400
>> >
>> >David,
>> >
>> >...It pitches up in the stall now and it's easy to see and feel....
>> >
>> >Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that when it stalls the
>> >nose pitches up? Or are you saying that when pitching up the nose (using
>> >elevator) that it stalls? If the nose pitches up in response to a stall,
>> >rather than as the cause of the stall, you have a problem.
>> >
>> >After a stall, nose should fall down and if the wings are fairly level
>>and
>> >you are not yawed to badly, the airplane will start flying again
>> >immediately. If it automatically pitches up in response to a stall, this
>>is
>> >dangerous, perhaps being caused by a way too aft CG.
>> >
>> >I hope I misunderstood you.
>> >
>> >Thom in Buffalo
>> >do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Rick Girard
>"Ya'll drop on in"
>takes on a whole new meaning
>when you live at the airport.
Message 12
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| Subject: | need firestar II or 503 for sale |
I have a good Rotex 503 DCDI and 2 blade IVO prop, but I need a flyable air
frame for a firestar II. Anyone have any good leads on one?
Or I have a 503 for sale and parts and pieces of the old firestar.
Keith Hedrick
Carlinville IL
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Stall Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| Drop the nose a bit, rock in
| about 45 deg of bank and Haul Back on the stick. The airplane turns
on a dime
| with no tendency to stall. It feels a lot like doing a hook turn on
a slalom
| ski around a float. Why does a Kolb do this and most other AC do
not?
|
|
| steve b
Steve B:
I don't know about airplanes, but this is how we turn helicopters in a
hard banking turn. We turn the helicopter with aft cyclic and the
Kolb with elevator. I don't have enough experience flying other fixed
wing aircraft to comment on how they fly. A few hours in a 152 to get
a private ticket 16 years ago is the extent of my "other" fixed wing
type experience. Got a few hours playing with Kolbs though. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Stall Question |
Thanks John.
After thinking about it, I'm going to guess that it has to do with a short
fat low aspect wing mated with low mass. This is probably a situation where the
low mass works for you.
BTW, I have seen you do this maneuver at low airspeeds and low altitudes.
Its a cool turn.
steve b.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
No I did a weight and balance on the plane which gives me the forward and
aft extremes. Here's are the numbers.
13.2 Extreem Forward CG
23.2 Extreem Back CG
>From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 08:46:31 -0500
>
>Darn, hit the send button too soon. I meant to say, have you done a weight
>and balance at forward and aft extremes?
>
>Rick
>
>On 9/6/06, David Key <dhkey@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>>
>>Restated...
>>When I pull back on the stick the plane pitches up then stalls. It didn't
>>pitch up much before.
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>> >From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>> >To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> >Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
>> >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:47:16 -0400
>> >
>> >David,
>> >
>> >...It pitches up in the stall now and it's easy to see and feel....
>> >
>> >Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that when it stalls the
>> >nose pitches up? Or are you saying that when pitching up the nose (using
>> >elevator) that it stalls? If the nose pitches up in response to a stall,
>> >rather than as the cause of the stall, you have a problem.
>> >
>> >After a stall, nose should fall down and if the wings are fairly level
>>and
>> >you are not yawed to badly, the airplane will start flying again
>> >immediately. If it automatically pitches up in response to a stall, this
>>is
>> >dangerous, perhaps being caused by a way too aft CG.
>> >
>> >I hope I misunderstood you.
>> >
>> >Thom in Buffalo
>> >do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Rick Girard
>"Ya'll drop on in"
>takes on a whole new meaning
>when you live at the airport.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Stall Question |
Hi Russ,
I believe it would be more accurate (and safer) to refer to it
as a stall warning indicator or stall tab, which is all it is. It
really has no function as an AOA, even though it sounds good. It
doesn't get any info (weight, air density, etc.) to act as an AOA.
Even in turns, they're notoriously unreliable. Go off in
turbulence, don't go off at certain times when they should. They're on
lots of the GA aircraft I fly, singles and twins, and are the LAST thing
I believe for aviating info.
Ed in JXN
----- Original Message -----
From: russ kinne
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Stall Question
I stand corrected -- sort of. The little metal tab-thingie WORKS AS
an AOA indicator, at the speeds Kolbs fly; and can be trusted to warn
you of an impending stall. I don't think we need a super-accurate,
computer-controlled AOA indicator, though of course it's more accurate
--
Yarn probably would work IF you kept your eye on it and nothing else.
I doubt it would last long on Falcons & Gulfstreams.
A light and/or horn is much more practical -- IMHO
Russ Kinne
do not archive
On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:32 PM, Ed Chmielewski wrote:
Hi All,
I can't emphasize enough how the 'tab-type' stall warning
indicator is NOT an angle-of-attack (AOA) device. It works on slower
GA-type aircraft in a narrow airspeed range. The fact it works in a
turn is more indicative of its error range than its accuracy.
True AOA uses a computer and factors in weight, air density,
wing configuration (flap position), and possibly other factors. It
works great, even in bumpy air.
If the tab thingy worked, wouldn't some type of yarn also
work at the right location? If it worked as previously stated, we'd see
it on Falcons, Gulfstreams, etc. one would think.
Sorry, not trying to flame but want to see more accurate
info posted.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Hi Dave,
Welcome to the brotherhood of aviation. I feel for you, with all
the unsought opinions. That's why it's called (by some) the "Aircraft
Oglers and Polishers Association". Sounds like you're doing just fine,
listen politely and do it your way when no one's around. How long have you
been married? ;^)
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oil Pressure question
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> John,
> If you only knew what I go through with the strap hangers... almost
> daily... My problem is I'm nice and I listen. They all don't like my plane
> for dozens of reasons and the newest will be that if it needs that sized
> trim tab then it aint designed right. I get a new reason not to like it
> every three days. I live on the airport so the neighbors are the strap
> hangers, they come by like a small stream all day and night. I'm not sure
> what happened to everyone else when I decided to build a plane, but they
> didn't get smarter. You should of seen what happened when I ask for a
> second pair of eyes while I calculated CG. I didn't ask how to do it, I
> ask for someone to watch me while I did it. It got really spooky in
> seconds as the ideas and the beer flowed. One guy said I had to take
> everything out and weigh it, he owns the airport!!! I ask him very gently,
> don't you think the scales take into account everything in the airplane.
> He still didn't get it, I dropped it, while maintaining a huge silent
> concern for the people that didn't understand that. I have sympathy for
> anyone in the building process that has to go through that crap. I'm very
> surprised at the abundance of inaccurate advise and the willingness of
> people to share it.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
All the GA planes I've flown with FI have a high-pressure backup
pump that's electric. Most are only good in cruise, that's to say, the pump
won't supply enough at takeoff to keep the fire lit but will work at 75-80%
power. Some, like the Cessna 210, have a double-rocker for two pumps with
one rocker spring-loaded 'off'. That way, you're holding the switch down
continuously until it's not needed (when the emergency's over).
Maybe you could fit an inline auto or aircraft pump?
Ed in JXN
----- Original Message -----
From: <APilot@webtv.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oil Pressure
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net
>
> Here is a question for Kolbers. My Mk III Classic feeds fuel to the
> fuel injected Geo engine via a high pressure pump. Therefore, the hoses
> must be secure and the electric wires to the pump must be tight. And,
> of course, the pump must not break. My guess is that there is no way to
> have a redundant back up system. Am I right? My 582 Rotax on my Kitfox
> quit one time when it was parked up hill and the fuel in the header tank
> drained back into the wing tank. It quit on takeoff. No damage
> thankfully.
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Stall Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
"John Hauck" wrote: << Through experience, demonstrating the MKIII, it was
extremely difficult to get the MKIII into an accelerated stall,
intentionally. Once in a while, with a rather large passenger, I could get
it to fall through an extremely tight turn. >>
I have discovered that my Mark-III has a very effective, built-in stall
warning device. It is the "growl" you hear when, just prior to the stall,
the separated, turbulent airflow comes off the wing and goes through the
prop. Impossible to ignore.
This pre-stall growl happens in straight-ahead stalls (especially with power
on), and in banked, accelerated stalls (especially with a passenger).
Accompanying this pre-stall growl is a slight bobbing of the nose. Fly any
slower (or bank any steeper), and the plane will stall. Gotta love an
airplane that "talks" to you so clearly!
Dennis Kirby
912ul, 58 hrs
New Mexico
Message 20
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| Subject: | kolblist : stall question |
Finally a break in the monsoon, but with it drop in temperatures. Pulls
down density altitude on the plus side, but decade plus in Nuevo Mexico
thins blood and 16C at ground level makes it bloody cold at 6K with door
off.
Find with MkIII doing turns around a point. at 45 degrees bank or more
wing moves, doesn't stick. Still pizza cake and comfortable. Just not as
accurate with rudder pedals as I was flying GenAv A/C.
Noticed once again the 532's EGT temperatures differ about 200
degrees. Should I change orifice size on one?
Also, early morning headed generally into sun, the window and right door
are horrible. Think the previous owner had some overspray when he
applied paint lavishly and tried buffing overspray off what is probably
Plexiglas (I don't know if it is or is Lexan). Anybody know a way to
improve them? Don't want to replace if I don't have to, and hate flying
later in day when shadows are gone. Tried McGuiers and some spray stuff
that was supposed to be ammonia free.
jsf
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure question |
In a message dated 9/6/2006 11:06:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
edchmiel@mindspring.com writes:
> Welcome to the brotherhood of aviation. I feel for you, with all
> the unsought opinions.
Good point Ed, I listen to people that build and fly their own AC. You will
get enough differing opinions in that arena alone.
steve b
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: need firestar II or 503 for sale |
Does it have to be a firestar II? I have a nice original firestar I'm not
flying at present.
Rick
On 9/6/06, Hedrick <khedrick@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> I have a good Rotex 503 DCDI and 2 blade IVO prop, but I need a flyable
> air frame for a firestar II. Anyone have any good leads on one?
>
>
> Or I have a 503 for sale and parts and pieces of the old firestar.
>
>
> Keith Hedrick
>
> Carlinville IL
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure question |
David, I'm posting to the group because I just want to make sure I
understand this correctly. From page 17 of the Mk III plans forward limit is
16.5" aft limit is 23.1". This is the MkIII classic. Are we on the same
page?
Rick
On 9/6/06, David Key <dhkey@msn.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> No I did a weight and balance on the plane which gives me the forward and
> aft extremes. Here's are the numbers.
> 13.2 Extreem Forward CG
>
> 23.2 Extreem Back CG
>
>
> >From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
> >To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
> >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 08:46:31 -0500
> >
> >Darn, hit the send button too soon. I meant to say, have you done a
> weight
> >and balance at forward and aft extremes?
> >
> >Rick
> >
> >On 9/6/06, David Key <dhkey@msn.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
> >>
> >>Restated...
> >>When I pull back on the stick the plane pitches up then stalls. It
> didn't
> >>pitch up much before.
> >>
> >>do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >> >From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
> >> >To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> >> >Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
> >> >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:47:16 -0400
> >> >
> >> >David,
> >> >
> >> >...It pitches up in the stall now and it's easy to see and feel....
> >> >
> >> >Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that when it stalls
> the
> >> >nose pitches up? Or are you saying that when pitching up the nose
> (using
> >> >elevator) that it stalls? If the nose pitches up in response to a
> stall,
> >> >rather than as the cause of the stall, you have a problem.
> >> >
> >> >After a stall, nose should fall down and if the wings are fairly level
> >>and
> >> >you are not yawed to badly, the airplane will start flying again
> >> >immediately. If it automatically pitches up in response to a stall,
> this
> >>is
> >> >dangerous, perhaps being caused by a way too aft CG.
> >> >
> >> >I hope I misunderstood you.
> >> >
> >> >Thom in Buffalo
> >> >do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >Rick Girard
> >"Ya'll drop on in"
> >takes on a whole new meaning
> >when you live at the airport.
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: kolblist : stall question |
Do a Google search for micro mesh. It's what we use to polish our
helicopter windows.
Guy Morgan
Galveston, TX work:
do not archive
(----- Original Message -----)
From: john s. flannery<mailto:jsflan@valornet.com>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com<mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: kolblist : stall question
************
Also, early morning headed generally into sun, the window and right
door are horrible. Think the previous owner had some overspray when he
applied paint lavishly and tried buffing overspray off what is probably
Plexiglas (I don't know if it is or is Lexan). Anybody know a way to
improve them? Don't want to replace if I don't have to, and hate flying
later in day when shadows are gone. Tried McGuiers and some spray stuff
that was supposed to be ammonia free.
jsf
do not archive
Message 25
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
Richard,
I posted my answer to the group so that the incorrect parts can be checked.
As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as an "aft WB" as there is no
"forward WB", there is only one WB and that's of the plane which yeilds the
CG for the plane. That CG may or may not fall into the cg range of the
plane. There are two main terms used to reference this range called aft cg
limit and forward cg limit which the CG for the plane must fall into to fly
safe.
So you could say I don't know how to do an "aft W&B" Yet, I do know how to
do a W&B and I do know what my aft cg limit is. If you want to know how I
did my weight and balance let me know, my aft cg limit is a calculation of a
percentange(35%) of the cord length of my wing(66 in) in my case that was
23.1 inches. The W&B would take a while to type but simple. In short (dont
do it this way!) set the wings at 9 degrees and weight all wheels and
multiply by the distance from the datum(leading edge of the wing) divide
that by the empty weight. Then make sure it's between the cg limits.
>From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
>To: dhkey@msn.com
>Subject: W & B
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 11:00:35 -0500
>
>How did you do the aft W & B?
>
>Rick
>
>--
>Rick Girard
>"Ya'll drop on in"
>takes on a whole new meaning
>when you live at the airport.
Message 26
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "N111KX (Kip)" <n111kx@mindspring.com>
Here's a new video of a dead stick landing taken from a gyro. Hopefully it will
work for you. Engine is turned off in the first 5 seconds of the vid...
Kip
http://gyrobuilder.homelinux.org/deadstick.mp4
--------
Kip
Firestar II (born September 2000)
Atlanta, GA
N111KX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59979#59979
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: kolblist : stall question |
Try using novus plastic clean & shine and novus fine scratch remover.
Bushwhacker
----- Original Message -----
From: Guy Morgan
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolblist : stall question
Do a Google search for micro mesh. It's what we use to polish our
helicopter windows.
Guy Morgan
Galveston, TX work:
do not archive
(----- Original Message -----)
From: john s. flannery
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: kolblist : stall question
************
Also, early morning headed generally into sun, the window and right
door are horrible. Think the previous owner had some overspray when he
applied paint lavishly and tried buffing overspray off what is probably
Plexiglas (I don't know if it is or is Lexan). Anybody know a way to
improve them? Don't want to replace if I don't have to, and hate flying
later in day when shadows are gone. Tried McGuiers and some spray stuff
that was supposed to be ammonia free.
jsf
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
9/4/2006
Message 28
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| Subject: | : Kolb-List:180 degree turn |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Tim,
You addressed your question to Vic about how to do a 180 degree turn,
but I'm going to take the liberty of adding my $2 worth (inflation :-).
1) AT ALTITUDE get into take-off configuration with full power and hold
Vy (best ROC speed). SUDDENLY close the throttle. Be prepared for a BIG
nose up pitch change and very rapid loss of airspeed because the sudden
loss of power in a high thrust line pusher at full power will surprise
you if you have never done this before. You will likely have no more
than a very few seconds to get the nose down with aggressive nose down
elevator to keep from stalling. This simulating sudden power failure
during take-off configuration is essential to learning to do this well.
2) Get the speed up (throttle closed or dead engine when it is the real
thing) to at least 1.5 x power off 1 G stall speed and do a 45 degree
banked turn of 180 degrees. You will be surprised at how quickly you
can make the turn this way, but make sure you keep the nose way down
and speed up. A leisurely turn per the "authorities" will put you in
the trees way before you get around. Their concern is that you will
make a steep bank turn at near 1G stall speed. This of course will kill
you, so they say don't do steep turns. The solution is to keep the
speed up while in the steep turn. If you don't keep the speed up, you
risk sudden death. It is that simple.
3) Repeat this several times and note the amount of altitude lost
during this maneuver. Practice improves your performance up to a point.
You must get accustomed to the sudden change in pitch and airspeed and
know by sight and feel the limit of your bank, and required airspeed so
you gain a muscle memory for automatically doing the right thing at the
right time. With high thrust line pushers this is a critical skill that
must acquired with practice if you hope to successfully make a turn
back to the runway. If you don't acquire this skill and muscle memory
do not try a turn back to runway. As the FAA says, it is a recipe for
death.
4) Once you are comfortable doing this and have a conservative altitude
loss number, double that number to allow for the reaction time delay
due to shock when the engine really quits during take-off and to allow
for imprecision and imperfection in executing the turn. I double it
also because if you maintain the runway centerline during climb out,
the turn back is actually more than 180 degrees. That is why I also let
the airplane drift downwind (during crosswind take-offs) so that the
turn back will not require much more than 180 degrees. The FARs say you
are supposed to maintain runway HEADING during climb out but it says
nothing about allowing down-wind drifting, so I let it if it is safe to
do so.
5) This doubled altitude loss number (make it part of your climb out
mental check list) should become your absolute minimum for doing a turn
back with a power failure during take-off.
I keep flaps extended (take-off and landing config) until I reach this
altitude then raise flaps and go to normal climb mode. Before take-off
at any airport I mentally add this number to ground elevation and look
for the Altimeter to cross that altitude. Until I am higher than that
altitude AGL my mind is prepared ONLY for a straight ahead emergency
landing, This decision height should be made based on your own numbers
in your aircraft. Each aircraft is different and one number does not
fit all airplanes.
I expect some will disagree with this but it is something I practice
with every new airplane I fly. You never know when you will need it. It
could be on your next take-off.
Thom in Buffalo
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: kolblist : stall question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Do a Google search for micro mesh. It's what we use to polish our
helicopter windows.
Guy Morgan
Morning Guy:
Is that plexiglass, or are you all using lexan polycarbonate in rotary
wing now?
john h
mkIII
Message 30
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|
David, Well the Kolb MkIII is an interesting case as the fuel is almost at
midway between the forward and aft limits. I checked my forward c.g. with
two FAA people and 2.5 gallons of fuel (30 minutes with my 582). Aft c.g.
was done with one FAA person and full fuel. If I had oil injection, instead
of mixing, I'd have done the forward c.g. with minimum oil in the tank and
aft c.g. with the oil tank full . And now that I'm looking at the
calculation block rather than just the drawing of the airplane showing the
arms, I see that it's exactly the way the factory said to do it in C) and
D). Didn't mean to screw anybody up with the terminology.
Rick
On 9/6/06, David Key <dhkey@msn.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> Richard,
> I posted my answer to the group so that the incorrect parts can be
> checked.
>
> As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as an "aft WB" as there is
> no
> "forward WB", there is only one WB and that's of the plane which yeilds
> the
> CG for the plane. That CG may or may not fall into the cg range of the
> plane. There are two main terms used to reference this range called aft cg
> limit and forward cg limit which the CG for the plane must fall into to
> fly
> safe.
>
> So you could say I don't know how to do an "aft W&B" Yet, I do know how
> to
> do a W&B and I do know what my aft cg limit is. If you want to know how I
> did my weight and balance let me know, my aft cg limit is a calculation of
> a
> percentange(35%) of the cord length of my wing(66 in) in my case that was
> 23.1 inches. The W&B would take a while to type but simple. In short (dont
> do it this way!) set the wings at 9 degrees and weight all wheels and
> multiply by the distance from the datum(leading edge of the wing) divide
> that by the empty weight. Then make sure it's between the cg limits.
>
>
> >From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
> >To: dhkey@msn.com
> >Subject: W & B
> >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 11:00:35 -0500
> >
> >How did you do the aft W & B?
> >
> >Rick
> >
> >--
> >Rick Girard
> >"Ya'll drop on in"
> >takes on a whole new meaning
> >when you live at the airport.
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: kolblist : stall question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
It's Lexan. Someone makes a kit that includes various grades of the micro
mesh with three or four different stages of polish just for doing Plexiglas.
I can't for the life of me remember who we got it from, though. Some places
to look would be Aviall, Aircraft Spruce, Eastwood Co., 3M. It works great.
I highly recommend it.
Best Regards,
Guy Morgan
Evergreen Helicopters
2001 Terminal Dr.
Galveston, TX 77554
work: (409) 740-0231
cell: (409) 692-2864
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolblist : stall question
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> Do a Google search for micro mesh. It's what we use to polish our
> helicopter windows.
>
> Guy Morgan
>
> Morning Guy:
>
> Is that plexiglass, or are you all using lexan polycarbonate in rotary
> wing now?
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | elevator cables -- was Oil Pressure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
David, & Kolb Friends,
The problem you described and what you did that corrected it could
indicate another "possible" problem.
If your elevator cables are not tight enough you will be able to
move the stick fore and aft without the elevator moving the same
degree under flight loads.
This problem is more common than many kolb pilots recognize.
I recommend that all kolb owners do this simple check. Have someone
immobilize the trailing edge of the elevators by firmly holding them
in the neutral position then check how far the stick can be moved
fore and aft.
It is not uncommon to find that the stick can be moved full fore and
aft against the stops without any movement in the elevator.
Even tight cables have noticeable stretch.
Just checking for no load only elevator movement is inadequate and
potentially dangerous in my opinion. The elevator is by far your
most critical control surface and all good Kolb pilots will confirm
its working integrity.
David, the reason I suspect this could be your problem is because
with normal elevator control you should definitely be able to pitch
up your plane with "any" flap or aileron configuration.
Gene,
On Sep 6, 2006, at 9:20 AM, David Key wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> Restated...
> When I pull back on the stick the plane pitches up then stalls. It
> didn't pitch up much before.
>
> do not archive
>
>
>> From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
>> Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:47:16 -0400
>>
>> David,
>>
>> ...It pitches up in the stall now and it's easy to see and feel....
>>
>> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that when it
>> stalls the nose pitches up? Or are you saying that when pitching
>> up the nose (using elevator) that it stalls? If the nose pitches
>> up in response to a stall, rather than as the cause of the stall,
>> you have a problem.
>>
>> After a stall, nose should fall down and if the wings are fairly
>> level and you are not yawed to badly, the airplane will start
>> flying again immediately. If it automatically pitches up in
>> response to a stall, this is dangerous, perhaps being caused by a
>> way too aft CG.
>>
>> I hope I misunderstood you.
>>
>> Thom in Buffalo
>> do not archive
>
>
Message 33
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
I see what you mean now. To answer your question I did not do a aft w&b or a
forward w&b, I guess you might say I did an empty w&b, which is to say
nothing was in the plane except oil and coolant. I guess that leads me to a
couple more qeustions. 1) Can you tell me your CG with a 104 lb passenger
and 3 lbs of bags and 7.5 gallons of fuel and a 10 lb seat cusion or would
you have to redo the W&B again? Mine would be 18.45 with the doors on and
18.8 if I did it with the doors off. 2) What if you bought bigger or smaller
wheels, does that mean put the wheels on, find the two FAA guys again, and
redo the for CG and aft CG's?
I don't know maybe the FAA guys are just plain fat or it could be like bad
carbs and good carbs the weight is diffrent. also I'm surprised you got
anything done with two FAA guys around. Next time try booting the fattest
FAA guy out and putting in two nice looking petite girls they're harder to
find but I bet the CG comes out a lot better.
3) What did your pilot arm came out to be?
>From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: aft W & B
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 12:49:07 -0500
>
>David, Well the Kolb MkIII is an interesting case as the fuel is almost at
>midway between the forward and aft limits. I checked my forward c.g. with
>two FAA people and 2.5 gallons of fuel (30 minutes with my 582). Aft c.g.
>was done with one FAA person and full fuel. If I had oil injection, instead
>of mixing, I'd have done the forward c.g. with minimum oil in the tank and
>aft c.g. with the oil tank full . And now that I'm looking at the
>calculation block rather than just the drawing of the airplane showing the
>arms, I see that it's exactly the way the factory said to do it in C) and
>D). Didn't mean to screw anybody up with the terminology.
>
>Rick
>On 9/6/06, David Key <dhkey@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>>
>>Richard,
>>I posted my answer to the group so that the incorrect parts can be
>>checked.
>>
>>As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as an "aft WB" as there is
>>no
>>"forward WB", there is only one WB and that's of the plane which yeilds
>>the
>>CG for the plane. That CG may or may not fall into the cg range of the
>>plane. There are two main terms used to reference this range called aft cg
>>limit and forward cg limit which the CG for the plane must fall into to
>>fly
>>safe.
>>
>>So you could say I don't know how to do an "aft W&B" Yet, I do know how
>>to
>>do a W&B and I do know what my aft cg limit is. If you want to know how I
>>did my weight and balance let me know, my aft cg limit is a calculation of
>>a
>>percentange(35%) of the cord length of my wing(66 in) in my case that was
>>23.1 inches. The W&B would take a while to type but simple. In short (dont
>>do it this way!) set the wings at 9 degrees and weight all wheels and
>>multiply by the distance from the datum(leading edge of the wing) divide
>>that by the empty weight. Then make sure it's between the cg limits.
>>
>>
>> >From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
>> >To: dhkey@msn.com
>> >Subject: W & B
>> >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 11:00:35 -0500
>> >
>> >How did you do the aft W & B?
>> >
>> >Rick
>> >
>> >--
>> >Rick Girard
>> >"Ya'll drop on in"
>> >takes on a whole new meaning
>> >when you live at the airport.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Rick Girard
>"Ya'll drop on in"
>takes on a whole new meaning
>when you live at the airport.
Message 34
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "olendorf" <olendorf@gmail.com>
Surprised no one saw this. I like the comment that he had 2 hours of flight time.
http://www.nbc4i.com/news/9744012/detail.html
Ultralight Plane Crashes Into Barn, Injuring Man
Family Members Say Pilot Had 2 Hours Of Flight Time
UPDATED: 10:34 am EDT August 27, 2006
RADNOR, Ohio -- An Indiana man was hospitalized after the ultralight plane he was
piloting crashed Saturday in northwestern Delaware County.
The pilot, John R. Tapp, 32, of Indianapolis, was airlifted to Grant Medical Center
in Columbus, according to the Ohio State Highway Patrol.
Tapp was flying a Kolb Firestar Ultra-life aircraft. Troopers said he had just
taken off westbound from a private residence on Thomas Road, then turned to the
northwest after takeoff, completed a 360-degree turn and then crashed nose-first
into a fence and a barn.
Tapp was thrown from the aircraft during the crash, according to the patrol.
An ultralight aircraft does not require a pilot's license, troopers said. According
to the aircraft's owner, Tapp received two hours of flight training and was
practicing taxiing prior to taking off.
The crash remains under investigation.
--------
Scott Olendorf
Schenectady, NY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60014#60014
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
I like where it was referred to as an "ultra-life airplane"
...ultra-short-life maybe?
do not archive
On 6, Sep 2006, at 3:32 PM, olendorf wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "olendorf" <olendorf@gmail.com>
>
> Surprised no one saw this. I like the comment that he had 2 hours of
> flight time.
>
> http://www.nbc4i.com/news/9744012/detail.html
>
>
> Ultralight Plane Crashes Into Barn, Injuring Man
> Family Members Say Pilot Had 2 Hours Of Flight Time
>
> UPDATED: 10:34 am EDT August 27, 2006
>
>
> RADNOR, Ohio -- An Indiana man was hospitalized after the ultralight
> plane he was piloting crashed Saturday in northwestern Delaware
> County.
>
> The pilot, John R. Tapp, 32, of Indianapolis, was airlifted to Grant
> Medical Center in Columbus, according to the Ohio State Highway
> Patrol.
>
> Tapp was flying a Kolb Firestar Ultra-life aircraft. Troopers said he
> had just taken off westbound from a private residence on Thomas Road,
> then turned to the northwest after takeoff, completed a 360-degree
> turn and then crashed nose-first into a fence and a barn.
>
>
> Tapp was thrown from the aircraft during the crash, according to the
> patrol.
>
> An ultralight aircraft does not require a pilot's license, troopers
> said. According to the aircraft's owner, Tapp received two hours of
> flight training and was practicing taxiing prior to taking off.
>
> The crash remains under investigation.
>
> --------
> Scott Olendorf
> Schenectady, NY
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60014#60014
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: " Chuck" <cstonex@msn.com>
Sounds like he earned this one. The comment about two hours and no license
does not exactly help the sport though.
Rev Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "olendorf" <olendorf@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar crash
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "olendorf" <olendorf@gmail.com>
>
> Surprised no one saw this. I like the comment that he had 2 hours of
> flight time.
>
> http://www.nbc4i.com/news/9744012/detail.html
>
>
> Ultralight Plane Crashes Into Barn, Injuring Man
> Family Members Say Pilot Had 2 Hours Of Flight Time
>
> UPDATED: 10:34 am EDT August 27, 2006
>
>
> RADNOR, Ohio -- An Indiana man was hospitalized after the ultralight plane
> he was piloting crashed Saturday in northwestern Delaware County.
>
> The pilot, John R. Tapp, 32, of Indianapolis, was airlifted to Grant
> Medical Center in Columbus, according to the Ohio State Highway Patrol.
>
> Tapp was flying a Kolb Firestar Ultra-life aircraft. Troopers said he had
> just taken off westbound from a private residence on Thomas Road, then
> turned to the northwest after takeoff, completed a 360-degree turn and
> then crashed nose-first into a fence and a barn.
>
>
> Tapp was thrown from the aircraft during the crash, according to the
> patrol.
>
> An ultralight aircraft does not require a pilot's license, troopers said.
> According to the aircraft's owner, Tapp received two hours of flight
> training and was practicing taxiing prior to taking off.
>
> The crash remains under investigation.
>
> --------
> Scott Olendorf
> Schenectady, NY
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60014#60014
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: " Chuck" <cstonex@msn.com>
Any bets on him getting more training or quitting altogether?
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert bean" <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar crash
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> I like where it was referred to as an "ultra-life airplane"
> ...ultra-short-life maybe?
> do not archive
> On 6, Sep 2006, at 3:32 PM, olendorf wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "olendorf" <olendorf@gmail.com>
>>
>> Surprised no one saw this. I like the comment that he had 2 hours of
>> flight time.
>>
>> http://www.nbc4i.com/news/9744012/detail.html
>>
>>
>> Ultralight Plane Crashes Into Barn, Injuring Man
>> Family Members Say Pilot Had 2 Hours Of Flight Time
>>
>> UPDATED: 10:34 am EDT August 27, 2006
>>
>>
>>
>> RADNOR, Ohio -- An Indiana man was hospitalized after the ultralight
>> plane he was piloting crashed Saturday in northwestern Delaware
>> County.
>>
>> The pilot, John R. Tapp, 32, of Indianapolis, was airlifted to Grant
>> Medical Center in Columbus, according to the Ohio State Highway
>> Patrol.
>>
>> Tapp was flying a Kolb Firestar Ultra-life aircraft. Troopers said he
>> had just taken off westbound from a private residence on Thomas Road,
>> then turned to the northwest after takeoff, completed a 360-degree
>> turn and then crashed nose-first into a fence and a barn.
>>
>>
>> Tapp was thrown from the aircraft during the crash, according to the
>> patrol.
>>
>> An ultralight aircraft does not require a pilot's license, troopers
>> said. According to the aircraft's owner, Tapp received two hours of
>> flight training and was practicing taxiing prior to taking off.
>>
>> The crash remains under investigation.
>>
>> --------
>> Scott Olendorf
>> Schenectady, NY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60014#60014
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" <wcm@tampabay.rr.com>
My money is on him quitting altogether now that he knows there is actually
"SKILL" involved, besides there's no way his wife will let him get back into
"that thing".
On the other hand, he may have been doing high a speed taxi and suddenly
found himself flying. Either way, only two hours will kill ya.
Chris M
do not archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar crash |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: " Chuck" <cstonex@msn.com>
I bet on a high speed taxi followed closely by skicky drawers. High speed
taxi got me airborne the first time too .... I just had a few more hours but
still was not ready. It made my drawers sticky too!
Rev Chuck
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Mallory" <wcm@tampabay.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar crash
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chris Mallory" <wcm@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> My money is on him quitting altogether now that he knows there is actually
> "SKILL" involved, besides there's no way his wife will let him get back
> into "that thing".
>
> On the other hand, he may have been doing high a speed taxi and suddenly
> found himself flying. Either way, only two hours will kill ya.
>
> Chris M
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 40
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net
Regarding the CG of a Kolb Mk III and probably most aircraft. I first
flew mine with a 33 percent of chord CG. I did not like the way it
felt. I moved the battery to the nose cone and recalculated the CG. It
is now 28 percent and I like the way it flies. I would be worried if it
was less that 22 percent because the elevator might not be effective
enough to make a decent landing unless I burned it in. I do not know
what the CG limits are. If someone knows, please pass it on. Thanks
Message 41
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Alexander" <gtalexander@att.net>
Nice job Kip! Your gyro friend did a good job of recording it as well.
Curious as to what your AGL was when you shut down.
Crude numbers from shut down...
2 minute to complete approx 450 deg turn and enter "downwind", (check the attached
image for the down angle)
+ 15 sec to base,
+ 15 sec turning final and
+ 17 sec to touchdown. (final time [Wink] )
2 min 42 sec total.
Overall.... impressive. Thanks for sharing.
N111KX (Kip) wrote:
> Here's a new video of a dead stick landing taken from a gyro. Hopefully it will
work for you. Engine is turned off in the first 5 seconds of the vid...
> Kip
>
> http://gyrobuilder.homelinux.org/deadstick.mp4
--------
George Alexander
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60057#60057
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kiplaurie_01_181.jpg
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Stall Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net
My Mark III Classic has a noise or a growl, but I thought that it was
cavitation of the prop. Maybe not.
Message 43
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| Subject: | elevator cables -- was Oil Pressure question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
Checking now.
thanks.
>From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: elevator cables -- was Oil Pressure question
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:44:17 -0400
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
>
>David, & Kolb Friends,
>
>The problem you described and what you did that corrected it could
>indicate another "possible" problem.
>
> If your elevator cables are not tight enough you will be able to move
>the stick fore and aft without the elevator moving the same degree under
>flight loads.
>
>This problem is more common than many kolb pilots recognize.
>
>I recommend that all kolb owners do this simple check. Have someone
>immobilize the trailing edge of the elevators by firmly holding them in
>the neutral position then check how far the stick can be moved fore and
>aft.
>It is not uncommon to find that the stick can be moved full fore and aft
>against the stops without any movement in the elevator.
>Even tight cables have noticeable stretch.
>
>Just checking for no load only elevator movement is inadequate and
>potentially dangerous in my opinion. The elevator is by far your most
>critical control surface and all good Kolb pilots will confirm its working
>integrity.
>
>David, the reason I suspect this could be your problem is because with
>normal elevator control you should definitely be able to pitch up your
>plane with "any" flap or aileron configuration.
>
>Gene,
>
>
>On Sep 6, 2006, at 9:20 AM, David Key wrote:
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>>
>>Restated...
>>When I pull back on the stick the plane pitches up then stalls. It didn't
>>pitch up much before.
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>>From: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>>>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil Pressure question
>>>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:47:16 -0400
>>>
>>>David,
>>>
>>>...It pitches up in the stall now and it's easy to see and feel....
>>>
>>>Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that when it stalls the
>>>nose pitches up? Or are you saying that when pitching up the nose (using
>>>elevator) that it stalls? If the nose pitches up in response to a stall,
>>>rather than as the cause of the stall, you have a problem.
>>>
>>>After a stall, nose should fall down and if the wings are fairly level
>>>and you are not yawed to badly, the airplane will start flying again
>>>immediately. If it automatically pitches up in response to a stall, this
>>>is dangerous, perhaps being caused by a way too aft CG.
>>>
>>>I hope I misunderstood you.
>>>
>>>Thom in Buffalo
>>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 44
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
John,
What altitude do most of the guys do cross country at? 2,000? 1500? Lets say
there are landing options.
Thanks,
David
Message 45
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| Subject: | the stall I never forgot..jswan |
Back in the 40's and shortly after I had soloed in the J-3 my instructor
turned me over to another instructor who had just got back from world war l
l, he
had been a navy pilot in the war. I was in my teens and they must have sort
of knew what a young kid of that age might have on his mind. We took off a
nd
climbed up to a safe altitude and he told me to circle over a house below u
s,
we were at a cruise power setting and maintaining altitude. He told me to
imagine that my girl friend was down there on the porch in a bathing suit
waving at me. He had me keep tightening the turn up and to maintain altitud
e I had
to keep putting in more top rudder and kept a lot of back pressure on the
stick to keep the turn tightthen the plane stalled and over the to
p we went
and started to spin, I mean it happened right now and I applied opposite ru
dder
and got the stick forward and recoveredIt was sort of violent and
I never
forgot what he had showed me and taught me.
jswan FS ll
MI
do not archive
Message 46
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| Subject: | Micro-Surface finishing products |
I'm looking at a kit (box) of Micro-Surface Finishing Product, 1217
West Third St, Box 818, WIlton IA 52778. I've used this magic stuff
on many aircraft windshields and side windows...some with really deep
scratches (many times from raking a fuel hose across the windshield)
plus inside scratches from a hand wiping condensation..with a ring on
a finger! Also works on overspray. Gotta follow directions and take
yer time...and put in a lotta time. It's a mulstistep process,
starting with coarse mesh sheets and going progressively finer. Works
on all kinds of plastic, not on glass!!!
The only time it failed:
Middle-aged pilot, attempting to show off by taking his trophy blond
for a ride in the rented 172. Unfortunately, a bird had let fly with
a big white plocture, right in the pilot's view. He scurries around,
trying to find a rag and some water to clean up. Gone quite a while.
Upon his return, the blond says "I got it, awready." And it looked
quite clean, especially so, with application of his wet rag. So he
starts up, and is taxiing out when a huge white thing appears on the
windscreen. WHA? Reaches around with the still damp rag, splotch goes
away. Few feet further, splotch returns. "Whadya put on the
windshield?" Just a little of this. It was fingernail polish
remover!! Spring '71 Hyde Field, (W32) Clinton VA.
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: the stall I never forgot..jswan |
The story of tight circles, etc is/was too close to home. Early 40s I
was partner with two others in an Aeronca C3. The two guys were doing
tight circles around a girl friend's windmill. Stick all the way
back, nothing holding them up but the fin&rudder. Not enough. Two dead.
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
pee ess The polishing Kit has mesh sheets from 2400 to 6000 aka BBS
(babies butt smooth)
Message 48
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "N111KX (Kip)" <n111kx@mindspring.com>
Hi, George. Shutdown was at about 2200' AGL. I was not real consistent with holding
speed but I could have probably stayed up longer had I concentrated on a
minimum sink speed...
I really bounced the landing because I was watching the gyro!
Kip
--------
Kip
Firestar II (born September 2000)
Atlanta, GA
N111KX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60105#60105
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Micro-Surface finishing products |
While waiting out an effort by an A&P to repair flap lever this
afternoon, saw a spray can of Plexus on a shelf in his hangar. He didn't
know if it was any good...got it with a C-150 he bought.
I used it on the MkIII, sprayed on, wiped off, buffed with a clean
t-shirt, and it worked better than anything I have tried. Haven't found
Novus Plastic cleaner& shine, Micromesh, 3M plastic polish,C-CICE, V&PM
Naptha, or Harley Davidson Cleaner/Polish; all recommended to me by you
helpful folks out there, in this small NM town.
The difference in the Plexus-treated window at top and the untreated
"DeLorean" right door is amazing.
Now to find the stuff! No, I don't work for them. Now if I can't get the
flap lever repaired, will get to see if I can see in early morning sun.
jsf
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Noyer
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:22 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Micro-Surface finishing products
I'm looking at a kit (box) of Micro-Surface Finishing Product, 1217
West Third St, Box 818, WIlton IA 52778. I've used this magic stuff on
many aircraft windshields and side windows...some with really deep
scratches (many times from raking a fuel hose across the windshield)
plus inside scratches from a hand wiping condensation..with a ring on a
finger! Also works on overspray. Gotta follow directions and take yer
time...and put in a lotta time. It's a mulstistep process, starting with
coarse mesh sheets and going progressively finer. Works on all kinds of
plastic, not on glass!!!
The only time it failed:
Middle-aged pilot, attempting to show off by taking his trophy blond
for a ride in the rented 172. Unfortunately, a bird had let fly with a
big white plocture, right in the pilot's view. He scurries around,
trying to find a rag and some water to clean up. Gone quite a while.
Upon his return, the blond says "I got it, awready." And it looked quite
clean, especially so, with application of his wet rag. So he starts up,
and is taxiing out when a huge white thing appears on the windscreen.
WHA? Reaches around with the still damp rag, splotch goes away. Few feet
further, splotch returns. "Whadya put on the windshield?" Just a little
of this. It was fingernail polish remover!! Spring '71 Hyde Field,
(W32) Clinton VA.
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
Message 50
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Dave/All
I don't remember what those W& B numbers are and I don't care, you shouldn't
either. What IS important is to know the aircraft loading that might put you
beyond these limits. I set up a spread sheet on the computer and played with
different passenger/fuel/baggage loadings till I found out where the limits
are. For example the aft CG limits are with empty fuel tanks with a solo 160
LB pilot. The forward limits are with empty fuel tanks and something like
500 LB of pilot & passenger. In other words I will always weigh more than
the point were I will have a aft CG condition and the forward limit is with
a passenger weight that is a good 50 lbs more than my max gross weight. I
have the spread sheet results taped in my aircraft log book for future
reference but in my case I know I will never be out side the CG limits. Do
you know what loading conditions might put you outside you CG limits?
I had to move my battery to the nose cone to get these figures with my
airplane and the redrive VW. If you have a more standard configuration you
may be ok but do you know that? Also my first flight instructor told me to
always check the W&B with full and empty tanks. Even with the tanks near the
CG the figures will change slightly.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: aft W & B
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>
> I see what you mean now. To answer your question I did not do a aft w&b or
> a forward w&b, I guess you might say I did an empty w&b, which is to say
> nothing was in the plane except oil and coolant. I guess that leads me to
> a couple more qeustions. 1) Can you tell me your CG with a 104 lb
> passenger and 3 lbs of bags and 7.5 gallons of fuel and a 10 lb seat
> cusion or would you have to redo the W&B again? Mine would be 18.45 with
> the doors on and 18.8 if I did it with the doors off. 2) What if you
> bought bigger or smaller wheels, does that mean put the wheels on, find
> the two FAA guys again, and redo the for CG and aft CG's?
>
> I don't know maybe the FAA guys are just plain fat or it could be like bad
> carbs and good carbs the weight is diffrent. also I'm surprised you got
> anything done with two FAA guys around. Next time try booting the fattest
> FAA guy out and putting in two nice looking petite girls they're harder to
> find but I bet the CG comes out a lot better.
>
> 3) What did your pilot arm came out to be?
Message 51
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: <kfackler@ameritech.net>
> What altitude do most of the guys do cross country at? 2,000? 1500?
I routinely fly 3500 for easterly headings and either 2500 or 4500 for
westerly headings. In other words, by the book.
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Micro-Surface finishing products |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
try: http://www.plexusplasticcleaner.com/plexus.html
bn
Message 53
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| What altitude do most of the guys do cross country at? 2,000? 1500?
Lets say
| there are landing options.
| Thanks,
| David
Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Whatever is most comfortable.
Where the most favorable winds are.
Anywhere from tree tops to 15,000 feet asl.
john h
mkIII
Message 54
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot@webtv.net
That is a difficult question. What altitude? Use to be that we could
fly above 10,000 ft which would give us good true airspeed and sometimes
hypoxia. Now, we can only go to 10,000 ft legally. However, when the
flowers and trees are in bloom, my favorite altitude ranges between 5
and 50 feet. That is the beautiy of flying.....a choice to enjoy or get
somewhere quickly. Sometimes we get lucky and do both.
Message 55
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
"I don't remember what those W& B numbers are and I don't care, you
shouldn't either."
Lets see I have less than 10 hours in my plane and someone is telling me I
shouldn't care about weight and balance... I guess you know where that
advice is going... the recycle bin.
"in my case I know I will never be out side the CG limits." It must be great
to already know your W&B limits. Now I'm going to learn mine.
"Also my first flight instructor told me to always check the W&B with full
and empty tanks." Yea it sounded like a great idea, I wish I'd done that.
Yet, I had never heard the terms "AFT W&B" and "FORWARD W&B" glad Mr. Girard
cleared that up for me.
So what would you call a W&B with only oil and coolant? An "empty W&B"?
>From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: aft W & B
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 22:21:59 -0400
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
><NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
>Dave/All
>
>I don't remember what those W& B numbers are and I don't care, you
>shouldn't either. What IS important is to know the aircraft loading that
>might put you beyond these limits. I set up a spread sheet on the computer
>and played with different passenger/fuel/baggage loadings till I found out
>where the limits are. For example the aft CG limits are with empty fuel
>tanks with a solo 160 LB pilot. The forward limits are with empty fuel
>tanks and something like 500 LB of pilot & passenger. In other words I will
>always weigh more than the point were I will have a aft CG condition and
>the forward limit is with a passenger weight that is a good 50 lbs more
>than my max gross weight. I have the spread sheet results taped in my
>aircraft log book for future reference but in my case I know I will never
>be out side the CG limits. Do you know what loading conditions might put
>you outside you CG limits?
>
>I had to move my battery to the nose cone to get these figures with my
>airplane and the redrive VW. If you have a more standard configuration you
>may be ok but do you know that? Also my first flight instructor told me to
>always check the W&B with full and empty tanks. Even with the tanks near
>the CG the figures will change slightly.
>
>Rick Neilsen
>Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 2:55 PM
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: aft W & B
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
>>
>>I see what you mean now. To answer your question I did not do a aft w&b or
>>a forward w&b, I guess you might say I did an empty w&b, which is to say
>>nothing was in the plane except oil and coolant. I guess that leads me to
>>a couple more qeustions. 1) Can you tell me your CG with a 104 lb
>>passenger and 3 lbs of bags and 7.5 gallons of fuel and a 10 lb seat
>>cusion or would you have to redo the W&B again? Mine would be 18.45 with
>>the doors on and 18.8 if I did it with the doors off. 2) What if you
>>bought bigger or smaller wheels, does that mean put the wheels on, find
>>the two FAA guys again, and redo the for CG and aft CG's?
>>
>>I don't know maybe the FAA guys are just plain fat or it could be like bad
>>carbs and good carbs the weight is diffrent. also I'm surprised you got
>>anything done with two FAA guys around. Next time try booting the fattest
>>FAA guy out and putting in two nice looking petite girls they're harder to
>>find but I bet the CG comes out a lot better.
>>
>>3) What did your pilot arm came out to be?
>
>
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