---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/26/06: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:15 AM - Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 (Todd Fredricks) 2. 05:21 AM - Re: First flight of MIIIC N285CZ (Ralph Hoover) 3. 05:29 AM - Re: Is Lexan source important? (Ralph Hoover) 4. 06:35 AM - Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 (Craig Nelson) 5. 06:42 AM - Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 (Larry Bourne) 6. 08:33 AM - Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 7. 09:00 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL) 8. 09:06 AM - Dry Lake (Craig Nelson) 9. 09:15 AM - Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage (Gherkins Tim-rp3420) 10. 09:43 AM - Re: Dry Lake (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 11. 09:48 AM - Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 12. 10:18 AM - 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (Jason Omelchuck) 13. 10:46 AM - Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (Ralph Hoover) 14. 11:21 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (Richard Girard) 15. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: Is Lexan source important? (George Myers) 16. 11:59 AM - Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 17. 01:22 PM - Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage (Gherkins Tim-rp3420) 18. 01:28 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 19. 03:35 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Kolbdriver) 20. 03:42 PM - 2006 Kolb Homecoming Photos (John Williamson) 21. 03:51 PM - Not-so-cheap thrills (Ralph Hoover) 22. 04:16 PM - Re: Not-so-cheap thrills (Ralph Hoover) 23. 04:29 PM - Re: Not-so-cheap thrills (Ralph Hoover) 24. 05:07 PM - Re: 2006 Kolb Homecoming Photos (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 25. 05:39 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (john s. flannery) 26. 05:53 PM - Plug Color (David Key) 27. 05:58 PM - Re: New Member Panel Question (Mike Schnabel) 28. 06:34 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Michael Sharp) 29. 06:46 PM - Flutter Question (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL) 30. 07:05 PM - Re: Flutter Question (Richard Pike) 31. 07:48 PM - Re: Flutter Question (Richard Girard) 32. 08:08 PM - Re: Not-so-cheap thrills (possums) 33. 08:10 PM - Tail Wheel (Jeff Nelson) 34. 08:25 PM - Re: Tail Wheel (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 35. 08:41 PM - Re: Flutter Question (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 36. 11:12 PM - Re: Not-so-cheap thrills (possums) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 From: Todd Fredricks --> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks Craig: Are you giving up on the engine cowling? Todd On 9/26/06 2:32 AM, "Craig Nelson" wrote: > <> <> <> > <> <> > Fun > Uncle Craig > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which > it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any > action in reliance upon,this information by persons or entities other than the > intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact > the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > -- Todd Fredricks, DO Flying Fox Services http://web.mac.com/flyingfoxservices Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:33 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: First flight of MIIIC N285CZ From: "Ralph Hoover" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" Jason, Good for you. 12 years ago I was 49, transitioning between racing sail boats and getting back into the motorcycle world for the third time. I reflect back and have to hand you a great "Tanasity Trophy"! Lives changes, familys changes, jobs change, the world changes. Gas went up, then down, then back up. U.S. went into and out of strifes and threats. But you Jason, stayed the course. It became a "have to do" rather than a can do. You had to eat, sleep and live "build the plane, build the plane". Thats incredible. And here it is done. Just like a dad finished paying for his sons doctorate, and at the edge of the stage waiting for the hats to fly from their hands, having accepted his degree and thanking his family for their support. Then finding yourself one of his first patients. And finding out that the money was in deed, well spent. Many great years of flight, do I wish upon you. You have raised the bar. Ohio Ralph numb in your presence! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63920#63920 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:30 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Is Lexan source important? From: "Ralph Hoover" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" I guess that the duel "George Myers grin" is conformation that Big Lar is the winner! Actually, if one orders the 060 material, even if its 8 foot x 4 foot, the container would be no larger that the 4 foot as they could roll it upon itself. The larger thickness however doesn't roll into as small a container and does sometimes have to be shipped flat. Very expensive as Lar stated. My full wind screen is 1/16" thick and was dificult enough to form, hold down in place while I drilled and pop rivited it to the supports. Ohio Ralph Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63921#63921 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 From: "Craig Nelson" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Craig Nelson" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Fredricks Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:15 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Todd Fredricks Todd No still testing the engine, I want to get a few more hours on her B4 installing the cowling. Made a lot of modifications. Taking it slow and easy Uncle craig DO NOT ARCIVE Craig: Are you giving up on the engine cowling? Todd .. > > -- Todd Fredricks, DO Flying Fox Services http://web.mac.com/flyingfoxservices Visit my Blog at www.flyingfoxhangar.blogspot.com The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:49 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Way to go, Craig. Have fun in that toy. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Nelson" Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:32 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 <> <> <> <> <> Fun Uncle Craig The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:39 AM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Hey Unk Craig... Great pics. Where is that dry lake (?) you're flying from? AzDave Fun Uncle Craig ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:28 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sport Pilot From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" << What is the best glide speed for a Kolb MkIII? What is Vx and Vy? (I'm around 50 to 55 for both of them and can't see hardly any difference in climb rate.) AzDave >> Hey, Arizona Dave - For my bone-stock Mark-III, I declared 55 for Vy (best rate = best glide), and 50 for Vx (best angle), when the FAA asked me. (As you know, we are required to determine these speeds for our homebuilt airplanes during our Phase-I flight testing period, and document them in our aircraft log as part of FAA certification.) And like you, I'm seeing hardly any difference in climb rate between these two speeds. Good luck in finishing up your certification! Dennis Kirby 912ul, "Magic Bike" Cedar Crest, NM (Now, if I could just get this silly 'spider' to work right ... ;-) do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:35 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Dry Lake From: "Craig Nelson" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Craig Nelson" El Marriage California or however you spell it? Uncle craig DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Eve Pelletier Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Hey Unk Craig... Great pics. Where is that dry lake (?) you're flying from? AzDave Fun Uncle Craig The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:57 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage From: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" AZ Dave/All Uncle Craig and myself and another good friend(retired DPS heli pilot/officer) spent last week at El Mirage dry lake bed near Victorville CA for flight testing and to attend the annual PRA (popular rotorcraft association). Flight tests went well and soon we will have a full cowl on the engine. Excellent place to fly. Perfect weather and 6 miles long and 3 mile wide of the smoothest packed clay lake bed. Tim FSII -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Eve Pelletier Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, DSC_0059, DSC_0067 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" --> Hey Unk Craig... Great pics. Where is that dry lake (?) you're flying from? AzDave Fun Uncle Craig ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:36 AM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dry Lake --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Yeah, been there a couple of times. It's about ten miles away from Brian Ranch in Llano, which is one fine Ultralight facility. Dunno how it was when you were there, but that lake bed is a beehive of activity on weekends. AzDave Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Nelson" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:06 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Dry Lake > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Craig Nelson" > > El Marriage California or however you spell it? > Uncle craig > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:19 AM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Tim, Yeah, just commented on Uncle Craig's reply. OK, (and you know what's coming) now when are you gonna put that extraordinarily beautiful Firestar in the air? Like I mentioned to you before, If you and Uncle Craig take both your birds to Oshkosh or S & F, you'll drive the judges crazy trying to figure out who to give the Grand Champ trophy to. Those sure are pretty birds. AzDave Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" > > > AZ Dave/All > > Uncle Craig and myself and another good friend(retired DPS heli > pilot/officer) spent last week at El Mirage dry lake bed near > Victorville CA for flight testing and to attend the annual PRA (popular > rotorcraft association). Flight tests went well and soon we will have a > full cowl on the engine. Excellent place to fly. Perfect weather and 6 > miles long and 3 mile wide of the smoothest packed clay lake bed. > > Tim > FSII > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Eve > Pelletier > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:32 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, > DSC_0059, DSC_0067 > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > --> > > Hey Unk Craig... > > Great pics. Where is that dry lake (?) you're flying from? > > AzDave > > > Fun > Uncle Craig > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:43 AM PST US From: "Jason Omelchuck" Subject: Kolb-List: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) Hello all, Many of you have commented about my 180 back to the runway after an engine out on the first flight. So as not to encourage this activity at the wrong time, let me expound on the story. I had 5000 of runway and no wind. I lifted of in the first 500' of runway. At the departure end of the runway, I had 500 or more feet of altitude. When the engine quit, I was able to drop the nose at will and build the airspeed up to to a good flying speed. To be honest, I don't know what that speed was, I was too busy flying the airplane (and obviously had the runway made) to look but my guess was it was about 65. I landed in the first 1/3 of the departure end of the runway, so by my (thumbnail) calculations it would have been a lot more exciting if I had been flying out of runway that was 3000' or less. This runway was picked by design, many of the local ultralighters told me it was too busy so it was not a good runway to test fly out of. At this point I am glad I listened to myself and selected a runway that is not only 5000' long but has no obstructions on either end. The short story is that on the first flight, have a plan and make sure your surroundings allow for a huge margin of error. Either that or be much much wiser than I am and be 100% sure that everything and every system on your airplane will perform to 100%, 100% of the time (even though it has never flown before) :). Jason MKIIIC BMW R100 Portland OR ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:32 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) From: "Ralph Hoover" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" Jason, In response, and I may be corrected, but here goes. We will return to the ways that are embedid within us and how we are trained. Your on the ground, you are safe, the plane is safe, you are a better pilot for your hands on experience. Now in retrospect, looking back as only the individual doing the doing could do; Would you change anything of what you did? If so, what? How? At what point would that decision have to be decided upon. I can speak for many, if not most and especially me in saying that we will ALL experience a test of our knowledge. As Possum best put it (but not a quote) "thats what makes this an interesting sport..the danger." Sorry Possum if I mis-percieved or mis-represented your actual intent. I'm sure with 12 years of building under your belt, you were every bit as concerned about a safe uneventful landing as you were about your 12 year investment. I am glad you did what you did when you did it, Your proof as I am from my mistake. Ready to fly again. Made in Ohio, more humble each day, Ralph Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64031#64031 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/40_foot_landing_002_small_676.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:20 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot John, I fly a 582 powered Mk 3. Last time I went out at dawn to do timed climbs, I got a flat result from 50 to 65 mph of right at 500 fpm. It was 80 degrees at 6:30 a.m., ah summer in Kansas. I use 60 as the top of the white arc (flap speeds) 90 as the top of the green arc 90 to 99 as the yellow arc (max smooth air cruise) and 100 even as red line (VNE). After I put the aileron balances on I took it out to 120 to check for flutter. I usually cruise at 80 to 85 IAS if I want to get somewhere and 70 to 75 when I'm just out cruising. Your results may differ as I have the prop (Warp Drive 66" 3 blade with straight blades) set to get 6500 max RPM. Rick On 9/25/06, john s. flannery wrote: > > Thanks, And, do you believe *that*, with a Kolb Mark III of unknown age, > use, and provenance, covered with very thin but clean fabric you can't > define? And no built-in umbrella or *falschirm*? But, it has held > together at 70, maybe plus to date. Think my old-tried-it-still-here side > says " I shan't seek 100 mph." Nor shall I creep much past 70 indicated. > Verily and foresooth as the boys say. > > And next, the flaps extension speed and how many threads should be > concealed in the flap rod. An A&P messed up the flap levers rebuild and had > to back out to get flaps balanced with underside of wings at 0-degrees or > lose 5 mph. > > jsf > > do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Kolbdriver > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, September 25, 2006 6:52 PM > *Subject:* RE: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot > > According to the paperwork that came from Phoenixville the VNE of the > Mark III is 100MPH. > > > Mike > > Oak Grove Missouri > > Mark III Classic (one of the last of Old Kolb) - 0hrs > > Suzuki G13B 1.3L - 0hrs > > Started with Big Lar still behind... > > Do not archive > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *john s. flannery > *Sent:* Monday, September 25, 2006 8:27 PM > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot > > > AZDave, > > > Doubt their is much difference in, or too much concern about Vx and Vy > where 50 to 55 can be an inch of stick or a slight gust, and I firmly > believe the one to be concerned about in any of these is VNE. Anybody know > what it is on the Mark III? > > > When I can get the problems half straightened out with the Mark III and > can fly, I am getting 500 fpm and sometimes 700 fpm on takeoff when > density altitude drops below 6K here in southern NM. It's beginning to drop > with change in weather. Now if I just ordered the right parts ... > > > jsf > > > do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Dave & Eve Pelletier > > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Monday, September 25, 2006 4:25 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot > > > Russ, > > > I agree. But where do I look them up? That's my question. I'm about > the fifth owner of this plane and no paperwork came with it. In testing, > best glide seems to be at 50 mph. I know what Vx and Vy are defined as. I > don't know if there are any "official" numbers for the Kolb MkIII. Vx and > Vy seem to be 50 and 55 mph, but that's what I get when I test it. There > seems to be no difference in climb from one of these speeds to the other. > Depending on conditions, I'm climbing at 200 to 300 fpm at both of these > speeds. If I go to higher or lower speeds, the climb rate drops. I forgot > to mention, I'm flying a MKIII with a 582. > > > AzDave > > > Do Not Archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* russ kinne > > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Monday, September 25, 2006 3:17 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot > > > Az Dave > > You guys should all know the V-speeds; it's pretty basic info. Do yourself > a favor and look them up; less than a dozen. > > Won't your SP examiner ask these? He should. > > Vx is best angle-of-climb speed, Vy is best rate-of-climb. Important to > know which to use if you want to climb over a ridge or simply gain altitude > quickly. > > Best-glide speed should be implanted IN CAPS, in your brain before you > ever fly anywhere, anytime. If the engine quits you don't want to waste any > time trying to remember it. > > do not archive > > > On Sep 25, 2006, at 2:00 PM, Dave & Eve Pelletier wrote: > > > Guys, > > > Been flying a lot and I'm real close to taking the Sport Pilot > practical test - hopefully in the first week of Oct. A couple of > questions: What is the best glide speed for a Kolb MkIII? What is Vx and > Vy? (I'm around 50 to 55 for both of them and can't see hardly any > difference in climb rate.) Will take any acvice you can give. > > > AzDave > > > Do Not Archive > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > * * > > * > s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > * > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:51 AM PST US From: "George Myers" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Is Lexan source important? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Myers" >I guess that the duel "George Myers grin" is conformation that Big Lar is the winner! I resemble that remark! do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:20 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) Jason Congratulations. Also thanks for sharing all that information. It is now clear why you did the 180. At 500 ft AGL you had plenty of altitude to safely do the 180 with even some margin for error. As a Rotax alternative proponent I'm very interested in your BMW. When you get time please explore your engine capabilities and share them with us. Of particular interest are cost, custom work that had to be performed to mount the engine, weight and noise/vibration. Height of thrust line above boom tube. High or low mount gear box and reduction ratio. Also send photos. As for performance we would like to know climb rate, cruise speeds with percent power and RPM, fuel burn at cruise. I know I'm asking allot and don't expect everything right away. Allot of this is from what people have asked me. Engine choices are very important and can be very costly (Rotax 912). Reliability is also a major concern, if you are traveling over inhospitable country it may be the most important thing and if so most people would be wise to choose the Rotax 912 "for now". As time goes bye we will find out how reliable the BMW is on a airplane. Anyone out there that has other engines please share your experience. Now that the a (Rotax 912) costs more than the airplane it is a significant portion of airplane ownership. Most of us can afford to own a rotax 912 series on a airplane but may choose not to even own a airplane because they need or want to spend the hard earned dollars elsewhere. A lower cost engine might open up aviation for a lot more people. Thanks again and congratulations Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Omelchuck To: 'Kolb-List Digest Server' Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: Kolb-List: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) Hello all, Many of you have commented about my 180 back to the runway after an engine out on the first flight. So as not to encourage this activity at the wrong time, let me expound on the story. I had 5000 of runway and no wind. I lifted of in the first 500' of runway. At the departure end of the runway, I had 500 or more feet of altitude. When the engine quit, I was able to drop the nose at will and build the airspeed up to to a good flying speed. To be honest, I don't know what that speed was, I was too busy flying the airplane (and obviously had the runway made) to look but my guess was it was about 65. I landed in the first 1/3 of the departure end of the runway, so by my (thumbnail) calculations it would have been a lot more exciting if I had been flying out of runway that was 3000' or less. This runway was picked by design, many of the local ultralighters told me it was too busy so it was not a good runway to test fly out of. At this point I am glad I listened to myself and selected a runway that is not only 5000' long but has no obstructions on either end. The short story is that on the first flight, have a plan and make sure your surroundings allow for a huge margin of error. Either that or be much much wiser than I am and be 100% sure that everything and every system on your airplane will perform to 100%, 100% of the time (even though it has never flown before) :). Jason MKIIIC BMW R100 Portland OR ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:01 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage From: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" AZ Dave, Thank you for the kind words about our Kolbs. Our primary goal is to get uncle Craig's plane inspected and registered and test time flown off. Then we will concentrate on my Firestar II. I plan to start flight school to obtain my private pilot certificate this fall. We'll keep you all posted. Tim/Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Eve Pelletier Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:46 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" --> Tim, Yeah, just commented on Uncle Craig's reply. OK, (and you know what's coming) now when are you gonna put that extraordinarily beautiful Firestar in the air? Like I mentioned to you before, If you and Uncle Craig take both your birds to Oshkosh or S & F, you'll drive the judges crazy trying to figure out who to give the Grand Champ trophy to. Those sure are pretty birds. AzDave Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" > > > AZ Dave/All > > Uncle Craig and myself and another good friend(retired DPS heli > pilot/officer) spent last week at El Mirage dry lake bed near > Victorville CA for flight testing and to attend the annual PRA (popular > rotorcraft association). Flight tests went well and soon we will have a > full cowl on the engine. Excellent place to fly. Perfect weather and 6 > miles long and 3 mile wide of the smoothest packed clay lake bed. > > Tim > FSII > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Eve > Pelletier > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:32 AM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emailing: DSC_0015, DSC_0020, DSC_0022, > DSC_0059, DSC_0067 > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > --> > > Hey Unk Craig... > > Great pics. Where is that dry lake (?) you're flying from? > > AzDave > > > Fun > Uncle Craig > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:34 PM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:20 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot John, I fly a 582 powered Mk 3. Last time I went out at dawn to do timed climbs, I got a flat result from 50 to 65 mph of right at 500 fpm. It was 80 degrees at 6:30 a.m., ah summer in Kansas. I use 60 as the top of the white arc (flap speeds) 90 as the top of the green arc 90 to 99 as the yellow arc (max smooth air cruise) and 100 even as red line (VNE). After I put the aileron balances on I took it out to 120 to check for flutter. I usually cruise at 80 to 85 IAS if I want to get somewhere and 70 to 75 when I'm just out cruising. Your results may differ as I have the prop (Warp Drive 66" 3 blade with straight blades) set to get 6500 max RPM. Rick WOW! I'd love to get those numbers. Sometimes, when conditions are right, I can get 500 fpm in the early a.m. In fact one time I got 700 but it was back to 500 before I could get the camera out :-). The only way I can get 80 to 85 is down hill. My cruise is about 60 - 65 and I have the same set up as you do....Warp Drive 66" 3-blade and 6500 max. My white arc is 70 but I've been told that you can pretty much depoy the flaps at any speed. Like a dummy, I've had it to 80 on approach with the flaps full down before I noticed it. I watch it much closer now. AzDave Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:09 PM PST US From: "Kolbdriver" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot I believe what the Designer of the aircraft states. Few of us know the true details of the spam can we rent either. Since exceeding Vne speed should never be done.. Hence the "ne" part. I wouldn't seek 100 either. Mike _____ From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john s. flannery Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:07 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot Thanks, And, do you believe that, with a Kolb Mark III of unknown age, use, and provenance, covered with very thin but clean fabric you can't define? And no built-in umbrella or falschirm? But, it has held together at 70, maybe plus to date. Think my old-tried-it-still-here side says " I shan't seek 100 mph." Nor shall I creep much past 70 indicated. Verily and foresooth as the boys say. And next, the flaps extension speed and how many threads should be concealed in the flap rod. An A&P messed up the flap levers rebuild and had to back out to get flaps balanced with underside of wings at 0-degrees or lose 5 mph. jsf do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Kolbdriver Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 6:52 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot According to the paperwork that came from Phoenixville the VNE of the Mark III is 100MPH. Mike Oak Grove Missouri Mark III Classic (one of the last of Old Kolb) - 0hrs Suzuki G13B 1.3L - 0hrs Started with Big Lar still behind... Do not archive _____ From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john s. flannery Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot AZDave, Doubt their is much difference in, or too much concern about Vx and Vy where 50 to 55 can be an inch of stick or a slight gust, and I firmly believe the one to be concerned about in any of these is VNE. Anybody know what it is on the Mark III? When I can get the problems half straightened out with the Mark III and can fly, I am getting 500 fpm and sometimes 700 fpm on takeoff when density altitude drops below 6K here in southern NM. It's beginning to drop with change in weather. Now if I just ordered the right parts ... jsf do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave & Eve Pelletier Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot Russ, I agree. But where do I look them up? That's my question. I'm about the fifth owner of this plane and no paperwork came with it. In testing, best glide seems to be at 50 mph. I know what Vx and Vy are defined as. I don't know if there are any "official" numbers for the Kolb MkIII. Vx and Vy seem to be 50 and 55 mph, but that's what I get when I test it. There seems to be no difference in climb from one of these speeds to the other. Depending on conditions, I'm climbing at 200 to 300 fpm at both of these speeds. If I go to higher or lower speeds, the climb rate drops. I forgot to mention, I'm flying a MKIII with a 582. AzDave Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: russ kinne Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot Az Dave You guys should all know the V-speeds; it's pretty basic info. Do yourself a favor and look them up; less than a dozen. Won't your SP examiner ask these? He should. Vx is best angle-of-climb speed, Vy is best rate-of-climb. Important to know which to use if you want to climb over a ridge or simply gain altitude quickly. Best-glide speed should be implanted IN CAPS, in your brain before you ever fly anywhere, anytime. If the engine quits you don't want to waste any time trying to remember it. do not archive On Sep 25, 2006, at 2:00 PM, Dave & Eve Pelletier wrote: Guys, Been flying a lot and I'm real close to taking the Sport Pilot practical test - hopefully in the first week of Oct. A couple of questions: What is the best glide speed for a Kolb MkIII? What is Vx and Vy? (I'm around 50 to 55 for both of them and can't see hardly any difference in climb rate.) Will take any acvice you can give. AzDave Do Not Archive s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:12 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: 2006 Kolb Homecoming Photos From: "John Williamson" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" I just added some photos of the trip to TNK Homecoming to my website. It rained once and the tent never leaked. I still had a great time. http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1/ -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64099#64099 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0134_642.jpg ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:49 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Not-so-cheap thrills From: "Ralph Hoover" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" Man, this is almost as good as thereal thing without the "Possum" fear factor. Too bad it costs around the same price as a new Firestar! High speed internet ONLY. THe rest will have to wait, unfortunatly! http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/remote-flying-with-vr-goggles-and-a-camera-202964.php Ohio Ralph P.S. It is pretty close to the quality of the river run from Possum! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64101#64101 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:23 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Not-so-cheap thrills From: "Ralph Hoover" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" THis one is also no slow internet. It is a luxury we cannot afford, at least very often and in these ways. Still interesting to watch. Sorry. I'm not trying to turn this into a RC video site. Just thought it was pretty amazing. Ohio Ralph http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=4410783374249173794&hl=fr Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64108#64108 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:48 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Not-so-cheap thrills From: "Ralph Hoover" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" OK, Last one. Only reason its here is because of the rolls! Ohio Ralph http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-6884817858714442651&hl=fr Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64109#64109 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:25 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2006 Kolb Homecoming Photos --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" John W Where we at the same Homecoming? I remember it QUIT raining once. Also how did you get that photo of John H rolling without all that water being thrown by his wheels. Also my tent leaked. Good Homecoming otherwise. Do not archive Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Williamson" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:41 PM Subject: Kolb-List: 2006 Kolb Homecoming Photos > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" > > > I just added some photos of the trip to TNK Homecoming to my website. > > It rained once and the tent never leaked. I still had a great time. > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:03 PM PST US From: "john s. flannery" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot Not sure I agree, Mike. As I remember, all the "spam cans" I've rented and owned have had gauges color-marked indicating never exceed speed, caution range , maximum structural cruising speed, normal operation range, maximum speed flaps extended, flap operation range and that very important one touched on earlier, maneuvering speed. They didn't get through annual without those markings, I recall. And the ubiquitous operating manuals published by the manufacturers even listed the variations in those speeds for floatplanes, skiplanes and of course, landplanes. jsf do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Kolbdriver To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:34 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot I believe what the Designer of the aircraft states. Few of us know the true details of the spam can we rent either. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:16 PM PST US From: "David Key" Subject: Kolb-List: Plug Color --> Kolb-List message posted by: "David Key" I have a 912UL I was checking my plugs and they look white. I've never had a 4 stroke before but in a 2 stroke it would be too lean. Do the same colors mean the same things in a 4 stroke? ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:30 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Member Panel Question From: "Mike Schnabel" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Schnabel" Dear "self appointed Instrument panel /gauge cluster judge" Ralph... sorry its talken so long to respond, my Yahoo email will not allow replies... have i used my annual quota of Kolb list messages already??? I finally realized that the forum was another way to post... so here goes! Well, just wanted to offer my sincere thanks for your kind words on my humble cluster of gauges... i really can take no credit. Designed and built by Bryan Melborn, he knew what a Kolb flyer needed to see. Though, i would like to add a slip indicatior just above the ASI, just as you thought! Thanks again, (looking forward to hearing from the TNK Homecoming crowd, and how as the event??) Mike S Manchester TN Firestar 2 503 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64133#64133 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:01 PM PST US From: Michael Sharp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot John My statement about the spam cans referred to your comment: "Thanks, And, do you believe that, with a Kolb Mark III of unknown age, use, and provenance, covered with very thin but clean fabric you can't define? And no built-in umbrella or falschirm?" The Spam cans I've rented and owned are covered with a very thin usually NOT clean AL sheet and you have no idea how the last pilot treated the aircraft or what "squawk's" he didn't report. And they can pass years worth of annuals with the problems not being addressed... Therefore few of us know the true details of the spam can we rent Your statement seemed to hi-lite the condition of the aircraft and not the original issue of Airspeed... Sorry if that wasn't clear. Also, what does a "flip book" have to do with Aircraft?? i.e. "falschirm" Or is it a term for something else?? Mike "john s. flannery" wrote: v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Not sure I agree, Mike. As I remember, all the "spam cans" I've rented and owned have had gauges color-marked indicating never exceed speed, caution range , maximum structural cruising speed, normal operation range, maximum speed flaps extended, flap operation range and that very important one touched on earlier, maneuvering speed. They didn't get through annual without those markings, I recall. And the ubiquitous operating manuals published by the manufacturers even listed the variations in those speeds for floatplanes, skiplanes and of course, landplanes. jsf do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Kolbdriver To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:34 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot I believe what the Designer of the aircraft states. Few of us know the true details of the spam can we rent either. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:22 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Flutter Question From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" Kolb Friends - I suspect I've had my first encounter with flutter on my Mark-3. Not sure - that's why I'm asking this question: Can aileron flutter happen in short bursts (like, durations less than one second)? I was flying this morning in mildly turbulent air. Cruise power, straight & level at about 65 mph indicated. I encountered a sudden burst of vibration in the airframe that felt like (if you can picture this) someone threw a big glop of oatmeal thru the prop. Just one short burst - not a continuous vibration. At first I thought something soft went thru my prop, like a rag or something. Lemme tell you - this is something that will make you sit bolt upright, eyes wide, and make you wonder, "What the heck was THAT?" My plane IS equipped with the aileron counterbalance rods (thanks again, J.Hauck), but they are slightly shortened to accommodate wing folding. This happened four different times in my 1.2 hour flight. Aside from that, everything was working fine (engine), and my postflight inspection revealed no anomalies. Except ... I had repaired some fabric on the outboard trailing edge of the right aileron a week before this flight. In doing so, the outboard six inches of aileron gap seal fabric (I use bookbinding tape) was removed. And not re-installed, after the fabric fix. I suspect the new airflow pattern due to the missing tape, plus the extra weight of the fabric patch/paint on the aileron, was enough to initiate the flutter. Anybody think this could be the cause? I will definitely reinstall the gap seal tape before next flight - see if that cures the problem. Dennis Kirby Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:45 PM PST US From: "Richard Pike" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flutter Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" Possibly aileron flutter. Watch it. If it flutters, you can see it. I had some rudder flutter, but it was sort of long duration, not so much a flutter as a waggle. But totally unacceptable. And it only happened if you took your feet off the pedals. Replace that tape muy pronto and see how it does. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Flutter Question > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" > > > Kolb Friends - > > I suspect I've had my first encounter with flutter on my Mark-3. > Not sure - that's why I'm asking this question: Can aileron flutter > happen in short bursts (like, durations less than one second)? > > I was flying this morning in mildly turbulent air. Cruise power, > straight & level at about 65 mph indicated. I encountered a sudden > burst of vibration in the airframe that felt like (if you can picture > this) someone threw a big glop of oatmeal thru the prop. Just one short > burst - not a continuous vibration. At first I thought something soft > went thru my prop, like a rag or something. > > Lemme tell you - this is something that will make you sit bolt upright, > eyes wide, and make you wonder, "What the heck was THAT?" > > My plane IS equipped with the aileron counterbalance rods (thanks again, > J.Hauck), but they are slightly shortened to accommodate wing folding. > > This happened four different times in my 1.2 hour flight. Aside from > that, everything was working fine (engine), and my postflight inspection > revealed no anomalies. Except ... > > I had repaired some fabric on the outboard trailing edge of the right > aileron a week before this flight. In doing so, the outboard six inches > of aileron gap seal fabric (I use bookbinding tape) was removed. And > not re-installed, after the fabric fix. I suspect the new airflow > pattern due to the missing tape, plus the extra weight of the fabric > patch/paint on the aileron, was enough to initiate the flutter. > > Anybody think this could be the cause? > > I will definitely reinstall the gap seal tape before next flight - see > if that cures the problem. > > Dennis Kirby > Cedar Crest, NM > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:31 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flutter Question Dennis, You say the counter balances were shortened. Are they still in balance? If in doubt, disconnect your aileron push rods at the aileron bell crank and check. The combination of patch and shortening could very well be the cause of a flutter episode. It certainly sounds exactly like my first flutter incident. Airspeed was about the same, and it did come and go like that at first. I had no counter weights. Installing them and doing a careful balance has the flutter threshold beyond 120 mph, now. Rick On 9/26/06, Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" < > Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> > > Kolb Friends - > > I suspect I've had my first encounter with flutter on my Mark-3. > Not sure - that's why I'm asking this question: Can aileron flutter > happen in short bursts (like, durations less than one second)? > > I was flying this morning in mildly turbulent air. Cruise power, > straight & level at about 65 mph indicated. I encountered a sudden > burst of vibration in the airframe that felt like (if you can picture > this) someone threw a big glop of oatmeal thru the prop. Just one short > burst - not a continuous vibration. At first I thought something soft > went thru my prop, like a rag or something. > > Lemme tell you - this is something that will make you sit bolt upright, > eyes wide, and make you wonder, "What the heck was THAT?" > > My plane IS equipped with the aileron counterbalance rods (thanks again, > J.Hauck), but they are slightly shortened to accommodate wing folding. > > This happened four different times in my 1.2 hour flight. Aside from > that, everything was working fine (engine), and my postflight inspection > revealed no anomalies. Except ... > > I had repaired some fabric on the outboard trailing edge of the right > aileron a week before this flight. In doing so, the outboard six inches > of aileron gap seal fabric (I use bookbinding tape) was removed. And > not re-installed, after the fabric fix. I suspect the new airflow > pattern due to the missing tape, plus the extra weight of the fabric > patch/paint on the aileron, was enough to initiate the flutter. > > Anybody think this could be the cause? > > I will definitely reinstall the gap seal tape before next flight - see > if that cures the problem. > > Dennis Kirby > Cedar Crest, NM > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:07 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Not-so-cheap thrills At 06:51 PM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" > >Man, this is almost as good as thereal thing without the "Possum" >fear factor. Too bad it costs around the same price as a new Firestar! > >High speed internet ONLY. THe rest will have to wait, unfortunatly! > >http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/remote-flying-with-vr-goggles-and-a-camera-202964.ph So how much does it cost - I couldn't find out? Would be nice to have the camera off my head and on the wing tip, tail or nose etc. I's pretty light. I think I could rig the servos - they're pretty strong in some RC's. I know how it works with the gyros & all. And don't have a problem flying with the goggles (redone) anything below my nose is not a problem to watch and fly at the same time. The screen I've got now sits just to the right and below my nose. I'll bet I could rig up a "Heads up Display" easier than you think. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:39 PM PST US From: "Jeff Nelson" Subject: Kolb-List: Tail Wheel Hi All First thanks for the response to the panel question. I have made a new panel for mine and hope to get pictures soon. I have a couple of more questions. One is the tailwheel? What was standard and what do you all use? Stearable? Fixed? Mine looks kind of crude and is falling apart. I will fix the one I have but might look at lighter solutions as well. The second question is fuel. I will be getting this licensed in LSA and would like a little more fuel than 5 Gallons. What do you all use? There was a second tank on this but it was a round tank in right behind the sling seat and was worried if I had an accident or incident it could do some damage to my person. also the seat is much more comfortable with it out. Just to remind you this is a Firestar KXP with 503. Thanks Jeff Nelson Middleton, WI ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:52 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail Wheel Jeff I am flying an Original Firestar and I purchased a Full swivel Tail wheel from TNK and it works great I installed a 10 Gallon fuel tank with no problem not much bigger in size other that the heigth than the original tank You can check the archives I believe it is in there where I got the tank but if you dont find it I can look at my paperwork and see if I can find out where I got it also there are Pictures of my Sexy Tail wheel in the Photoshare Ellery do not archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:06 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flutter Question Rick You keep saying 120 MPH!!!! I suspect your airspeed indicator is giving you higher readings than actual speeds. The published VNE on a MKIIIc is 100 MPH. If I remember the other speeds correctly you were quoting were a bit high for the engine you are running. That was a 582? Any way, if you really were going 120 MPH then you are a very lucky individual. I would not recommend that anyone try to duplicate this feat unless you are trying to rip your wings off. My $.02 worth. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:47 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flutter Question Dennis, You say the counter balances were shortened. Are they still in balance? If in doubt, disconnect your aileron push rods at the aileron bell crank and check. The combination of patch and shortening could very well be the cause of a flutter episode. It certainly sounds exactly like my first flutter incident. Airspeed was about the same, and it did come and go like that at first. I had no counter weights. Installing them and doing a careful balance has the flutter threshold beyond 120 mph, now. Rick ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:30 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Not-so-cheap thrills At 11:07 PM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >At 06:51 PM 9/26/2006, you wrote: > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" > <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com> > > > >Man, this is almost as good as the real thing without the "Possum" > >fear factor. Too bad it costs around the same price as a new Firestar! >So how much does it cost - I couldn't find out? do not archive Never mind - I got it figured out: http://www.rc-tech.ch/web/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=18&Itemid=26&lang=fr Gonna do some cloud pictures if I can get somebody to chase thru the holes to give the video some perspective. Trikes are the best to chase. Don't worry - we're not around any GA planes and I pick the clouds after flying around them or a least over them if they're too big. It take "two" idgits doing the same thing to run into each other. Like the river - make sure someone else isn't doing the same thing you are - coming the opposite way...... It happens.