Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:24 AM - Re: Flutter Question (David Downey)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Flutter Question (Richard Girard)
3. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (Blumax008@aol.com)
4. 06:31 AM - Re: Flutter Question (russ kinne)
5. 06:57 AM - Rotax 912 alternatives DVD (Jon Croke)
6. 07:46 AM - Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage (jimhefner)
7. 07:54 AM - Re: Flutter Question (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
8. 08:07 AM - Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (jimhefner)
9. 10:32 AM - Rotax 912 alternatives DVD (Jon Croke)
10. 11:15 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (john s. flannery)
11. 11:26 AM - Fw: hangar visitors (john s. flannery)
12. 12:33 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (e.bayliss)
13. 12:46 PM - Decisions (Jason Omelchuck)
14. 12:47 PM - Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (Ralph Hoover)
15. 01:31 PM - Re: Decisions (George Thompson)
16. 01:58 PM - Another Trike Killer huh? (possums)
17. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
18. 02:24 PM - Re: Another Trike Killer huh? (Bob Noyer)
19. 02:53 PM - Re: Fw: hangar visitors (Eugene Zimmerman)
20. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (russ kinne)
21. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage (russ kinne)
22. 03:53 PM - Fw: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) aka alfabit (Bob Noyer)
23. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage (Bob Noyer)
24. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) (john s. flannery)
25. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage (john s. flannery)
26. 04:18 PM - Air speed Markings (Jimmy)
27. 04:32 PM - Re: Fw: hangar visitors (Larry Bourne)
28. 05:03 PM - Re: Flutter Question (Steven Green)
29. 05:32 PM - Kolb Flight Simulator FireFly (LouB)
30. 06:18 PM - Kolb Sim (Mike Schnabel)
31. 06:34 PM - Re: Fw: hangar visitors (john s. flannery)
32. 09:15 PM - Re: Fw: hangar visitors (Larry Bourne)
33. 11:25 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (Ed Chmielewski)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter Question |
Hi Dennis;
You may have identified the primary cause but eventual loosening of structural
assemblies due to use and wear can also bring flutter on.
Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL"
Kolb Friends -
I suspect I've had my first encounter with flutter on my Mark-3.
Not sure - that's why I'm asking this question: Can aileron flutter
happen in short bursts (like, durations less than one second)?
I was flying this morning in mildly turbulent air. Cruise power,
straight & level at about 65 mph indicated. I encountered a sudden
burst of vibration in the airframe that felt like (if you can picture
this) someone threw a big glop of oatmeal thru the prop. Just one short
burst - not a continuous vibration. At first I thought something soft
went thru my prop, like a rag or something.
Lemme tell you - this is something that will make you sit bolt upright,
eyes wide, and make you wonder, "What the heck was THAT?"
My plane IS equipped with the aileron counterbalance rods (thanks again,
J.Hauck), but they are slightly shortened to accommodate wing folding.
This happened four different times in my 1.2 hour flight. Aside from
that, everything was working fine (engine), and my postflight inspection
revealed no anomalies. Except ...
I had repaired some fabric on the outboard trailing edge of the right
aileron a week before this flight. In doing so, the outboard six inches
of aileron gap seal fabric (I use bookbinding tape) was removed. And
not re-installed, after the fabric fix. I suspect the new airflow
pattern due to the missing tape, plus the extra weight of the fabric
patch/paint on the aileron, was enough to initiate the flutter.
Anybody think this could be the cause?
I will definitely reinstall the gap seal tape before next flight - see
if that cures the problem.
Dennis Kirby
Cedar Crest, NM
Dave Downey
in SE PA
Carpe Tigercubium
---------------------------------
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter Question |
Rick, 120 mph was what I got off the GPS while testing the aileron counter
balance installation. During that brief excursion into the red zone, my
discomfort level was in the red zone, too, but upon post flight inspection,
I found no evidence of seat damage. :-) I would never recommend anything
over mid yellow (max smooth air cruise speed), about 95 mph. To be honest,
my goal was to get 10% over redline, but I made a bad entry into a chandelle
and got too steep coming out. Needless to say I pulled back on the stick
very, very gently.
Rick
On 9/26/06, Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Rick
>
> You keep saying 120 MPH!!!! I suspect your airspeed indicator is giving
> you higher readings than actual speeds. The published VNE on a MKIIIc is 100
> MPH. If I remember the other speeds correctly you were quoting were a bit
> high for the engine you are running. That was a 582? Any way, if you really
> were going 120 MPH then you are a very lucky individual. I would not
> recommend that anyone try to duplicate this feat unless you are trying to
> rip your wings off.
>
> My $.02 worth.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Girard <jindoguy@gmail.com>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:47 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Flutter Question
>
> Dennis, You say the counter balances were shortened. Are they still in
> balance? If in doubt, disconnect your aileron push rods at the aileron bell
> crank and check. The combination of patch and shortening could very well be
> the cause of a flutter episode. It certainly sounds exactly like my first
> flutter incident. Airspeed was about the same, and it did come and go like
> that at first. I had no counter weights. Installing them and doing a careful
> balance has the flutter threshold beyond 120 mph, now.
>
> Rick
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) |
In a message dated 9/26/2006 1:47:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
flht99reh@columbus.rr.com writes:
As Possum best put it (but not a quote) "thats what makes this an
interesting sport..the danger."
Simply put...the expression is "to paraphrase" when you're not quoting
verbatim.
No offense.
Wild Bill...the killer of two Trikes in one day.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter Question |
Dave
Did you re-balance after shortening the rods and reworking the
aeliron? Could be it.
CARPE KOLBIUM!
Russ
do noit archive
On Sep 27, 2006, at 6:22 AM, David Downey wrote:
> Hi Dennis;
> You may have identified the primary cause but eventual loosening of
> structural assemblies due to use and wear can also bring flutter on.
>
>
> Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL"
>
> Kolb Friends -
>
> I suspect I've had my first encounter with flutter on my Mark-3.
> Not sure - that's why I'm asking this question: Can aileron flutter
> happen in short bursts (like, durations less than one second)?
>
> I was flying this morning in mildly turbulent air. Cruise power,
> straight & level at about 65 mph indicated. I encountered a sudden
> burst of vibration in the airframe that felt like (if you can picture
> this) someone threw a big glop of oatmeal thru the prop. Just one
> short
> burst - not a continuous vibration. At first I thought something soft
> went thru my prop, like a rag or something.
>
> Lemme tell you - this is something that will make you sit bolt
> upright,
> eyes wide, and make you wonder, "What the heck was THAT?"
>
> My plane IS equipped with the aileron counterbalance rods (thanks
> again,
> J.Hauck), but they are slightly shortened to accommodate wing folding.
>
> This happened four different times in my 1.2 hour flight. Aside from
> that, everything was working fine (engine), and my postflight
> inspection
> revealed no anomalies. Except ...
>
> I had repaired some fabric on the outboard trailing edge of the right
> aileron a week before this flight. In doing so, the outboard six
> inches
> of aileron gap seal fabric (I use bookbinding tape) was removed. And
> not re-installed, after the fabric fix. I suspect the new airflow
> pattern due to the missing tape, plus the extra weight of the
> Dave Downey
> in SE PA
> Carpe Tigercubium
>
> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Rotax 912 alternatives DVD |
Of interest to those researching alternative engine choices to the Rotax
912 ! (A targeted advertisement)
HomebuiltHelp has just released a new DVD that compiles
interviews/demonstrations from 7 engine vendors that compete with the
912 class of engine (Stratus Subaru, Jabiru, Rotec radial, AeroVee,
Wynne Corvair, Raven Redrive, and Great Plains VW).
This is a great one stop video catalog with footage contributed by these
vendors to HomebuiltHELP for the purpose of educating the homebuilder on
the most popular engine alternatives in the 80-120 hp range.
Complete details can be found at
http://homebuilthelp.com/The912Competition.htm
Thanks!
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Congratulations to Uncle Craig on the successful test flight of his beautiful Xtra!!
Looks like a perfect place to do flight testing for sure! I agree with
AZ Dave that you guys definitely build prize winning Kolbs!! Can't wait to see
your FS II. Will it be at MV next year? How far along is it? Post a few
pic's if you would. I'd love to see your bird.
I see you are going for your private certif in the fall. I'm interested in your
rationale vs SP certif if you don't mind sharing it. I'm working on my private
now and have soloed and soon will start the C/C's.... knowledge test planned
soon. I have learned a ton of good stuff and have a lot more to learn so I'm
happy I took the leap to private. They really drill safety stuff into you
for sure.... emergency procedures and practice galore... all good things.
Congrats again to Uncle Craig!!
--------
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64250#64250
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Dennis,
You've got enough responses to your question without me adding two
cents. But I'm addressing the shrotened countrerbalance weights. I had the
same problem on my Firestar - too long to get into the trailer. You can
drill holes to mount the weights in the "correct" length, then when you're
getting ready to store the plane in the trailer, remove the bolts, drop the
rods down to where they are now and temporarily re-bolt them. That's what I
did with my Firestar. You only have to remove and replace two bolts so it's
not like a major job.
AzDave
> My plane IS equipped with the aileron counterbalance rods (thanks again,
> J.Hauck), but they are slightly shortened to accommodate wing folding.
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Cedar Crest, NM
>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
I attended an AOPA Air Safety Mtg here in Tucson last night and it was all about
Emergency Procedures. The guy did a whole segment on 180 turn backs and recommended
everyone practice it at high altitude so you know the altitude loss when
you make the turn and have that altitude plus some margin in mind as you climb
out. If the engine quits before that altitude, land straight ahead or close
to it. It the engine quits above that alitude, turn back. He did a simulator
turn back test at different bank angles, showing a 60-70 degree turn will
make it back, a 45 degree turn just made it with no margin and anything less
didn't make it. He noted a 4 sec "oh shucks" decision delay for taking action
after the engine stops that was included in the simulator run.
In the early part of the meeting, the guy asked if there were any SP certificate holders in the room (standing room only) and not one person raised their hand. He said he travels coast to coast doing these safety mtgs and has yet to have one person raise their hand.... that surprised me. Maybe there aren't many with actual certificates yet, but I thought there would have been many at this point. Either that or SP folks don't get the word about AOPA air safety mtgs. They are free and are very good... I highly recommend them. You can find out about them on AOPA's air safety foundation website at www.asf.org and you don't need to be an AOPA member to go there.
For what it's worth.
--------
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64255#64255
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Rotax 912 alternatives DVD |
I received comments that the link for the 912 alternatives DVD web page
did not work in that last message... so just one last chance to try:
http://homebuilthelp.com/The912Competition.htm
Thanks
Of interest to those researching alternative engine choices to the Rotax
912 ! (A targeted advertisement)
HomebuiltHelp has just released a new DVD that compiles
interviews/demonstrations from 7 engine vendors that compete with the
912 class of engine (Stratus Subaru, Jabiru, Rotec radial, AeroVee,
Wynne Corvair, Raven Redrive, and Great Plains VW).
This is a great one stop video catalog with footage contributed by these
vendors to HomebuiltHELP for the purpose of educating the homebuilder on
the most popular engine alternatives in the 80-120 hp range.
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "john s. flannery" <jsflan@valornet.com>
Jim,
Maybe they, like me, didn't know what an SP was... Student Pilot? I'm old
and slow and don't know all the acronyms. Hell, I'm still using "Able,
Baker, Charley, Delta..."
jsf
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight)
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
>
> I attended an AOPA Air Safety Mtg here in Tucson last night
> In the early part of the meeting, the guy asked if there were any SP
> certificate holders in the room (standing room only) and not one person
> raised their hand.
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fw: hangar visitors |
Might be worth keeping eyes open when working in your hangars.
So far, aside from crickets, grasshoppers, a hummingbird, skinks and a
few of the other innocuous, have had rattler, tarantula, and the second
of these beauties in the Truth or Copnsequences hangar. Her web was on
the right wheel of the Kolb Mark III this morning.
jsf
Do not archive
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I have just got the specs as issued by the uk importer when my aircraft
was imported (build completed in 1995) these give the the following
max flap speed (vf) speed 55mph
never exceed (vne ) 95mph
best rate of climb speed 45mph
recommended climb speed 52 mph
recommended approach speed 52mph
I have seen on my trawling through the net that sometimes the published
manufacturers figures do not match the figures we have to keep to (
courtesy of the CAA) but hope this is some use to you anyway
Eddie (uk)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave & Eve Pelletier
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: john s. flannery
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot
AZDave,
Doubt their is much difference in, or too much concern about Vx and
Vy where 50 to 55 can be an inch of stick or a slight gust, and I firmly
believe the one to be concerned about in any of these is VNE. Anybody
know what it is on the Mark III?
John,
As best as I can find out, Vne on my MkIII is 90 mph. That's
how I've marked my ASI.
AzDave
Do Not Archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
27/09/2006
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Ralph Hoover wrote:
Jason, In response, and I may be corrected, but here goes. We will return
to the ways that are embedid within us and how we are trained. Your on the
ground, you are safe, the plane is safe, you are a better pilot for your
hands on experience. Now in retrospect, looking back as only the individual
doing the doing could do; Would you change anything of what you did? If so,
what? How? At what point would that decision have to be decided upon. I can
speak for many, if not most and especially me in saying that we will ALL
experience a test of our knowledge. As Possum best put it (but not a quote)
"thats what makes this an interesting sport..the danger." Sorry Possum if I
mis-percieved or mis-represented your actual intent. I'm sure with 12 years
of building under your belt, you were every bit as concerned about a safe
uneventful landing as you were about your 12 year investment. I am glad you
did what you did when you did it, Your proof as I am from my mistake. Ready
to fly again.
Made in Ohio, more humble each day, Ralph
Hello all,
In response to Ralphs above question: What I would have done differently is
pay attention to the signs of what was happening during my ground runs.
(decision 1, made before the test flight, bad) I could not run the engine at
full power on ground for more than 30 or so seconds without the CHT getting
too hot. Towards the end of SOME of those full power runs, I could detect a
small miss or two but never got to explore what caused the miss or if it was
really a sign of something. In hind sight, I should have devised some way
to cool the engine on the ground (leaf blowers, carpet dryers....) so I
could have run at high power settings for long periods of time. For some of
you who will now say that "see the BMW will not cool on the ground", I have
no problems running at power settings that will taxi me in tall grass and
such. It was just power settings that I would call high cruise power and
above with the tail tied for long periods.
(decision 2, made before the test flight, good) My test flight plan ended up
working for me. Since I had 5000' of runway, I chose 300' as go no go. If
I wanted to abort below 300', land straight ahead, If above 300', fly the
airplane and look around for a spot (I was at 500'). (decision 3 made during
flight, good) After the engine quit, I would say it took me about 2 seconds
to actually start flying the plane. If you were observing the flight, about
2 seconds after engine quit, you would have seen an abrupt nose down pitch.
(decision 4 made before flight, good) I learned to fly in a J3 and my
instructor pulled the throttle quite often on the departure cross wind leg
and we would actually go back and land on the runway. About 90 degrees
through the 180 it became apparent that this was going to work and I think
my brain then switched to don't bend the airplane mode (before that it was
airspeed and coordinated turn, don't stall, spin and die). At no point in
the whole thing was making the runway in question, I just needed to get
lined up and land without using up all my altitude. (decision 5 made during
flight, luck) I then started chanting to myself you cant have too much
airspeed and don't flair too high. At this point I had made the 180 and was
lining up with the runway and was trying very hard to keep the nose down and
airspeed up. I flared and landed (not on the center line and not going
straight down the runway) made a quick radio call to the traffic in the
pattern, jumped out and pushed the airplane to a taxi way and made the radio
call I was off the active and then stood there and listened to my heart
beat. My guess is the whole thing took about 20 to 30 seconds.
I am really glad the engine did not quit at 300', then there would have been
decisions to make. I am really glad I had got my sport pilots license in a
J3 and was trained to look outside the window and use the feel of the
aircraft to fly. The J3 also taught me that you can pull a 180 at
reasonably low airspeed (65) with minimal loss of altitude and position
relative to the runway (which helps you make the runway and line up). I am
really glad I chose the 5000' X 100' runway for test flying which, I
believe, truly gives me the option of always landing on the runway in any
situation (with lots of margin for my inexperience). I am sorry I got
myself in the position in the first place by not listening to what the
little voice in the back of my brain was saying about more prolonged high
power test runs on the ground.
I don't know if this answers the question or not, but there you have it.
Jason, MKIIIC, BMW R100, .75 hours, Portland, Oregon
do not archive
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Well "wild Bill", you said, and I quote:
"Simply put...the expression is "to paraphrase" when you're not quoting verbatim.
No offense.
Wild Bill...the killer of two Trikes in one day. "
I ain't much on any of them para's. This is a Kolb website we have real wings and
a body on our aircraft. And I wasn't quoting "verbatim", I was loosly quoting
Possum. I think he would be offended if he were confused with someone named
verbatim.
Now normally a man called "Wild Bill" wouldn't scare me and I'd just as soon help
ya put that Para thingy right back on y'r trike. But then I got to thinking
and when I read "killer of two trikes in one day." I determined that perhaps
you are not a fully equiped individual that one would care to mess with. I mean,
two...! In one day! I delt with the hardest core bikers out there and I have
to say, not a one has ever taken credit for going down twice in one day. You
scare me!
No offense taken, Mr. Wild Bill!
Do not archive!
Quivering in my boots here in Ohio...no name, or address!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64330#64330
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I can't argue with your results (and your excellent flying skills) but
why not land straight ahead with 5000 feet staring at you? it was
drummed into us student pilots years ago to go straight ahead except in
the most unusual circumstances.
As Bald Eagle
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Omelchuck
To: 'Kolb-List Digest Server'
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:46 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Decisions
Ralph Hoover wrote:
Jason, In response, and I may be corrected, but here goes. We will
return to the ways that are embedid within us and how we are trained.
Your on the ground, you are safe, the plane is safe, you are a better
pilot for your hands on experience. Now in retrospect, looking back as
only the individual doing the doing could do; Would you change anything
of what you did? If so, what? How? At what point would that decision
have to be decided upon. I can speak for many, if not most and
especially me in saying that we will ALL experience a test of our
knowledge. As Possum best put it (but not a quote) "thats what makes
this an interesting sport..the danger." Sorry Possum if I mis-percieved
or mis-represented your actual intent. I'm sure with 12 years of
building under your belt, you were every bit as concerned about a safe
uneventful landing as you were about your 12 year investment. I am glad
you did what you did when you did it, Your proof as I am from my
mistake. Ready to fly again.
Made in Ohio, more humble each day, Ralph
Hello all,
In response to Ralphs above question: What I would have done
differently is pay attention to the signs of what was happening during
my ground runs. (decision 1, made before the test flight, bad) I could
not run the engine at full power on ground for more than 30 or so
seconds without the CHT getting too hot. Towards the end of SOME of
those full power runs, I could detect a small miss or two but never got
to explore what caused the miss or if it was really a sign of something.
In hind sight, I should have devised some way to cool the engine on the
ground (leaf blowers, carpet dryers....) so I could have run at high
power settings for long periods of time. For some of you who will now
say that "see the BMW will not cool on the ground", I have no problems
running at power settings that will taxi me in tall grass and such. It
was just power settings that I would call high cruise power and above
with the tail tied for long periods.
(decision 2, made before the test flight, good) My test flight plan
ended up working for me. Since I had 5000' of runway, I chose 300' as
go no go. If I wanted to abort below 300', land straight ahead, If
above 300', fly the airplane and look around for a spot (I was at 500').
(decision 3 made during flight, good) After the engine quit, I would say
it took me about 2 seconds to actually start flying the plane. If you
were observing the flight, about 2 seconds after engine quit, you would
have seen an abrupt nose down pitch. (decision 4 made before flight,
good) I learned to fly in a J3 and my instructor pulled the throttle
quite often on the departure cross wind leg and we would actually go
back and land on the runway. About 90 degrees through the 180 it became
apparent that this was going to work and I think my brain then switched
to don't bend the airplane mode (before that it was airspeed and
coordinated turn, don't stall, spin and die). At no point in the whole
thing was making the runway in question, I just needed to get lined up
and land without using up all my altitude. (decision 5 made during
flight, luck) I then started chanting to myself you cant have too much
airspeed and don't flair too high. At this point I had made the 180 and
was lining up with the runway and was trying very hard to keep the nose
down and airspeed up. I flared and landed (not on the center line and
not going straight down the runway) made a quick radio call to the
traffic in the pattern, jumped out and pushed the airplane to a taxi way
and made the radio call I was off the active and then stood there and
listened to my heart beat. My guess is the whole thing took about 20 to
30 seconds.
I am really glad the engine did not quit at 300', then there would
have been decisions to make. I am really glad I had got my sport pilots
license in a J3 and was trained to look outside the window and use the
feel of the aircraft to fly. The J3 also taught me that you can pull a
180 at reasonably low airspeed (65) with minimal loss of altitude and
position relative to the runway (which helps you make the runway and
line up). I am really glad I chose the 5000' X 100' runway for test
flying which, I believe, truly gives me the option of always landing on
the runway in any situation (with lots of margin for my inexperience).
I am sorry I got myself in the position in the first place by not
listening to what the little voice in the back of my brain was saying
about more prolonged high power test runs on the ground.
I don't know if this answers the question or not, but there you have
it.
Jason, MKIIIC, BMW R100, .75 hours, Portland, Oregon
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
9/26/2006
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Another Trike Killer huh? |
At 03:47 PM 9/27/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>
>Well "wild Bill", you said, and I quote:
>
>Wild Bill...the killer of two Trikes in one day. "
I've shot a few down myself.
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
> Jim,
>
> Maybe they, like me, didn't know what an SP was... Student Pilot? I'm old
> and slow and don't know all the acronyms. Hell, I'm still using "Able,
> Baker, Charley, Delta..."
>
> jsf
Delta, Delta, you mean it isn't "Dog" anymore?????
AzDave
Do Not Archive
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Another Trike Killer huh? |
Possum.
Think your thumbs have scored a hit on you...perhaps should read
"I've down a few shots myself!"
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: hangar visitors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Man O man!
I know I do fly without a parachute but look what some guys do to
increase the exciting danger of "cheap fun" of flying! <g>
On Sep 27, 2006, at 2:23 PM, john s. flannery wrote:
> Might be worth keeping eyes open when working in your hangars.
>
> So far, aside from crickets, grasshoppers, a hummingbird, skinks
> and a few of the other innocuous, have had rattler, tarantula, and
> the second of these beauties in the Truth or Copnsequences hangar.
> Her web was on the right wheel of the Kolb Mark III this morning.
>
> jsf
> Do not archive
> <hangar visitor three 0436.jpg>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
In 2006 parlance I think it's "DUDE"
do not archive
On Sep 27, 2006, at 5:19 PM, Dave & Eve Pelletier wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier"
> <pelletier@cableone.net>
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> Maybe they, like me, didn't know what an SP was... Student Pilot?
>> I'm old and slow and don't know all the acronyms. Hell, I'm still
>> using "Able, Baker, Charley, Delta..."
>>
>> jsf
>
> Delta, Delta, you mean it isn't "Dog" anymore?????
>
> AzDave
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Jim
Are the "C/C's" you mention cross-countries? I've always heard them
described as "XC's"
Wouldn't be the first time my ancient terminology has been changed
for more modern version ----
fair winds
do not archive
On Sep 27, 2006, at 10:45 AM, jimhefner wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
>
> Congratulations to Uncle Craig on the successful test flight of his
> beautiful Xtra!! Looks like a perfect place to do flight testing
> for sure! I agree with AZ Dave that you guys definitely build
> prize winning Kolbs!! Can't wait to see your FS II. Will it be at
> MV next year? How far along is it? Post a few pic's if you
> would. I'd love to see your bird.
>
> I see you are going for your private certif in the fall. I'm
> interested in your rationale vs SP certif if you don't mind sharing
> it. I'm working on my private now and have soloed and soon will
> start the C/C's.... knowledge test planned soon. I have learned a
> ton of good stuff and have a lot more to learn so I'm happy I took
> the leap to private. They really drill safety stuff into you for
> sure.... emergency procedures and practice galore... all good things.
>
> Congrats again to Uncle Craig!!
>
> --------
> Jim Hefner
> Tucson, AZ
> Firefly #022 447, 2 blade IVO, BRS-750
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64250#64250
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) aka alfabit |
Begin forwarded message:
From: Bob Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight)
From Blue Jackets Manual, 1913
A
Able
B
Boy
C
Cast
D
Dog
E
Easy
F
Fox
G
George
H
Have
I
Item
J
Jig
K
King
L
Love
M
Mike
N
Nan
O
Oboe
P
Pup
Q
Quack
R
Rush
S
Sail
T
Tare
U
Unit
V
Vice
W
Watch
X
X-ray
Y
Yoke
Z
Zed
Do you want text of Rocks & Shoals aka Articles for the Government of
the Navy?
belatedly,
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage |
XCs are where you go cross county/country and land on x-ed out runways.
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "john s. flannery" <jsflan@valornet.com>
Dogged if I remember...
jsf
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "russ kinne" <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 180 turn back to runway (first flight)
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <kinnepix@earthlink.net>
>
> In 2006 parlance I think it's "DUDE"
> do not archive
>
> On Sep 27, 2006, at 5:19 PM, Dave & Eve Pelletier wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier"
>> <pelletier@cableone.net>
>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> Maybe they, like me, didn't know what an SP was... Student Pilot?
>>> I'm old and slow and don't know all the acronyms. Hell, I'm still
>>> using "Able, Baker, Charley, Delta..."
>>>
>>> jsf
>>
>> Delta, Delta, you mean it isn't "Dog" anymore?????
>>
>> AzDave
>>
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage |
You don't on some Baja strips. The X's were made out of three-foot high
boulders when I last tried to drop into the old favorite backstreet
strip at San Felipe. Landed instead at the way out of town
International. Tower never responded to myriad calls.. Fuel tanks there
had never been filled, airport was dedicated and never used and dust on
the unmarked floor. Toilets clean and of course no paper or water.
Nobody home.
jsf
do not archive
----
From: Bob Noyer
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Emailing: DSC_0015, El Mirage
XCs are where you go cross county/country and land on x-ed out
runways.
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Air speed Markings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy" <jhankin@planters.net>
Kolber's
I am in the process of getting my Firefly ready for its inspection, have my
n-number (N6007L).
I need to know what air speed markings are needed on the Air Speed indicator
and where to put them. Does anyone have a picture of a ASI with these
markings.
Thanks,
Jimmy Hankinson
912-863-7384
Firefly #035, (6007L)
JYL (Sylvania)
Pegasus Field (Home)
2000 Feet X 100 Feet- Grass
Rocky Ford, Georgia
Do Not Archive
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try SPAMfighter for free now!
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: hangar visitors |
Yah, I heard you were a photographer. Nice shot, bad bug. :-)
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: john s. flannery
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: hangar visitors
Might be worth keeping eyes open when working in your hangars.
So far, aside from crickets, grasshoppers, a hummingbird, skinks and a
few of the other innocuous, have had rattler, tarantula, and the second
of these beauties in the Truth or Copnsequences hangar. Her web was on
the right wheel of the Kolb Mark III this morning.
jsf
Do not archive
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Steven Green" <Kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>
Dennis,
You didn't mention feeling the flutter on the stick. Before I installed
counter balances on my MK3 I encountered flutter at about 85 mph and it was
very evident in the stick.
A vibration in the airframe can come from a miss in the engine. My first
and only experience with carb ice on the 912 caused a couple of short bursts
of vibration due to the engine missing as the ice broke loose. This
happened twice in about a 15 minute period.
Steven
Subject: Kolb-List: Flutter Question
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL"
<Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
> Kolb Friends -
>
> I suspect I've had my first encounter with flutter on my Mark-3.
> Not sure - that's why I'm asking this question: Can aileron flutter
> happen in short bursts (like, durations less than one second)?
>
> I was flying this morning in mildly turbulent air. Cruise power,
> straight & level at about 65 mph indicated. I encountered a sudden
> burst of vibration in the airframe that felt like (if you can picture
> this) someone threw a big glop of oatmeal thru the prop. Just one short
> burst - not a continuous vibration. At first I thought something soft
> went thru my prop, like a rag or something.
>
> Lemme tell you - this is something that will make you sit bolt upright,
> eyes wide, and make you wonder, "What the heck was THAT?"
>
> My plane IS equipped with the aileron counterbalance rods (thanks again,
> J.Hauck), but they are slightly shortened to accommodate wing folding.
>
> This happened four different times in my 1.2 hour flight. Aside from
> that, everything was working fine (engine), and my postflight inspection
> revealed no anomalies. Except ...
>
> I had repaired some fabric on the outboard trailing edge of the right
> aileron a week before this flight. In doing so, the outboard six inches
> of aileron gap seal fabric (I use bookbinding tape) was removed. And
> not re-installed, after the fabric fix. I suspect the new airflow
> pattern due to the missing tape, plus the extra weight of the fabric
> patch/paint on the aileron, was enough to initiate the flutter.
>
> Anybody think this could be the cause?
>
> I will definitely reinstall the gap seal tape before next flight - see
> if that cures the problem.
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Cedar Crest, NM
>
>
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Kolb Flight Simulator FireFly |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "LouB" <LBuckley122@comcast.net>
I wonder how the Flight simulator model of the Kolb Firefly by Byron Warwick compares
with the actual flight behavior of the Firefly with a Rotax 447 engine.
It is a freeware model and it seems enjoyable to fly but how does it compare
to the real thing???
Thanks for the input.
Lou
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64399#64399
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Lou, you did not mention an address where we can find the sim.
So here is what i could find....
http://www.fsimcafe.com/Downloads/ShowDownload.aspx?ProductID=1005
Good luck, i am downloading now...
Mike S
Manchester TN
do not archive
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Flight Simulator FireFly From: "LouB" <LBuckley122@comcast.net>
Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert Date: Wed,
27 Sep 2006 17:32:26 -0700 To: kolb-list@matronics.com [input] [input]
[input] [input]
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "LouB" <LBuckley122@comcast.net> I wonder how
the Flight simulator model of the Kolb Firefly by Byron Warwick compares
with the actual flight behavior of the Firefly with a Rotax 447 engine. It
is a freeware model and it seems enjoyable to fly but how does it compare to
the real thing??? Thanks for the input. Lou
Kolb-List: Kolb Flight Simulator FireFly "LouB" <LBuckley122@comcast.net>
Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:32:26 -0700
kolb-list@matronics.com
---------------------------------
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: hangar visitors |
Hear you are a photographer. Didn't you do some stuff near Blanding,
Utah?
jsf do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bourne
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: hangar visitors
Yah, I heard you were a photographer. Nice shot, bad bug. :-)
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: john s. flannery
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: hangar visitors
Might be worth keeping eyes open when working in your hangars.
So far, aside from crickets, grasshoppers, a hummingbird, skinks and
a few of the other innocuous, have had rattler, tarantula, and the
second of these beauties in the Truth or Copnsequences hangar. Her web
was on the right wheel of the Kolb Mark III this morning.
jsf
Do not archive
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: hangar visitors |
Hmmm.......tried to email you off List, but your email address wouldn't
copy and paste. I'm holding it in my Drafts folder.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: john s. flannery
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: hangar visitors
Hear you are a photographer. Didn't you do some stuff near Blanding,
Utah?
jsf do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bourne
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi John,
Va (maneuvering speed) is not specified on an ASI. One of those
one needs to remember, like Vx and Vy.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: john s. flannery
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot
Not sure I agree, Mike.
As I remember, all the "spam cans" I've rented and owned have had
gauges color-marked indicating never exceed speed, caution range ,
maximum structural cruising speed, normal operation range, maximum speed
flaps extended, flap operation range and that very important one touched
on earlier, maneuvering speed. They didn't get through annual without
those markings, I recall. And the ubiquitous operating manuals
published by the manufacturers even listed the variations in those
speeds for floatplanes, skiplanes and of course, landplanes.
jsf
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|