---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/01/06: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:54 AM - Re: trim - Engine Washers (Jack B. Hart) 2. 05:20 AM - Re: trim (Thom Riddle) 3. 05:24 AM - Re: trim - Engine Washers (robert bean) 4. 05:35 AM - Re: Primer bulb bypass (planecrazzzy) 5. 06:26 AM - Re: trim - Engine Washers (John Hauck) 6. 03:06 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (planecrazzzy) 7. 03:07 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (planecrazzzy) 8. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: Sport Pilot (robert bean) 9. 05:41 PM - Re: trim - Engine Washers (Mike Schnabel) 10. 06:01 PM - Kolbra at the Airshow (John Williamson) 11. 06:03 PM - Re: trim (Larry Bourne) 12. 06:08 PM - Trim Tabs (John Hauck) 13. 07:34 PM - Re: Trim Tabs (Larry Cottrell) 14. 07:58 PM - Re: Trim Tabs (Larry Bourne) 15. 08:53 PM - Re: Trim Tabs (john s. flannery) 16. 08:55 PM - john Williamson and Alliance airshow (Arksey@aol.com) 17. 09:15 PM - Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive (Larry Bourne) 18. 10:31 PM - Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive (Jim Baker) 19. 11:30 PM - Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 20. 11:33 PM - Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:27 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trim - Engine Washers --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" From: "Larry Cottrell" ............................. My question is the amount and number of washers under the motor. (plans are a bit vague) Perhaps the angle of the motor is forcing it down. ............................. Larry, Number of washers can be determined by used of the slip indicator in level flight. Check out: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly56.html This will remove P-factor slip at cruise speed. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:09 AM PST US From: Thom Riddle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trim --> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle Larry, When I changed my small tires for the big 800x6 tires like you have, the top cruise speed of my Titan dropped about 3-4 mph and is why I removed and sold them. I didn't need them on a paved runway anyway, just an experiment. On a Firestar, the speed cost is probably a bit less but still measurable so it sounds like your new prop is a winner. Thom in Buffalo do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:00 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trim - Engine Washers --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean Jack, excellent page. Trimming my MkIII will be on the agenda next year. BB do not archive On 1, Oct 2006, at 9:01 AM, Jack B. Hart wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" > > > From: "Larry Cottrell" > > ............................. > > My question is the amount and number of washers under the motor. > (plans are > a bit vague) Perhaps the angle of the motor is forcing it down. > > ............................. > > Larry, > > Number of washers can be determined by used of the slip indicator in > level > flight. > > Check out: > > http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly56.html > > This will remove P-factor slip at cruise speed. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:58 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Primer bulb bypass From: "planecrazzzy" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" Ditto... Gotta Fly... Mike & Jaz in MN -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64971#64971 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/squeeze_bulb_bypass_valve_001_214.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:22 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trim - Engine Washers --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" (plans are | a bit vague) Perhaps the angle of the motor is forcing it down. | | ............................. | | Larry Larry: Yes, a high mounted pusher will definitely push the nose down. Look at it as a long lever with the thrust on the end of it. My mkIII needs a lot of nose up trim at cruise, although I have lowered the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer somewhat. However, when I pull the power off or shut the engine down, the aircraft is trimmed up perfect in pitch and yaw without the aid of forced trim or trim tabs. Also have to remember how and where the prop wash hits the tail section. From my experimentation, the prop wash is what we are working against, not angle of thrust. I did the angle of thrust experiements many years ago on my FS, primarily to eliminate the requirement for trim tabs. When it was all over, I put a trim tab on the rudder, elevator, and aileron. My FS was trimmed out perfectly and the the trim tabs were not noticeable. In fact, the aircraft won several nice awards including the small trim tabs. Take care, john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:21 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sport Pilot From: "planecrazzzy" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" Hi Dave, The place to find out your "V" speeds , is your own plane... The only V-speed that does your plane any good is the Vne All the other speeds have to be found with your own plane , you can get a "Ballpark" idea from other peoples V-speeds , but your planes weight is different from theirs.... The "formula" for finding "all" of your " V-speeds " ( eccept Vne ) is found in the Amateur-built aircraft and ultralight Flight testing handbook - AC NO: 90-89A If you look at Chapter 5 " Expanding The Envelope " it explains how to find "YOUR" V-speeds.... Just like finding your STALL speed , you got a Ballpark idea from other planes , but you needed to find out where YOUR plane stalled.... Some of these other numbers work off of your stall speed.... ( something like 1.3 times the stall speed to get Vx ??? ) Hope this helps... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65065#65065 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sport Pilot From: "planecrazzzy" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" Hi Dave, The place to find out your "V" speeds , is your own plane... The only V-speed that does your plane any good is the Vne All the other speeds have to be found with your own plane , you can get a "Ballpark" idea from other peoples V-speeds , but your planes weight is different from theirs.... The "formula" for finding "all" of your " V-speeds " ( eccept Vne ) is found in the Amateur-built aircraft and ultralight Flight testing handbook - AC NO: 90-89A If you look at Chapter 5 " Expanding The Envelope " it explains how to find "YOUR" V-speeds.... Just like finding your STALL speed , you got a Ballpark idea from other planes , but you needed to find out where YOUR plane stalled.... Some of these other numbers work off of your stall speed.... ( something like 1.3 times the stall speed to get Vx ??? ) Hope this helps... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65066#65066 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:17 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Sport Pilot --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean To abide by the procedures in your "test period" (will it never end?) you have to stick them thar V numbers in your log book. Well and good, mine are hereby entered. Much more important is getting comfortable with how your plane behaves. After awhile you get a good feel for it and all that V stuff becomes irrelevant. Like one of those trick dirt bikers, they either have it or they don't. ouch. Straight ahead stalls are a waste of time, that's not where folks lose 'em. If you want to duplicate real life, get too slow in a rubber necker turn. BB do not archive On 1, Oct 2006, at 6:07 PM, planecrazzzy wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" > > > Hi Dave, > The place to find out your "V" speeds , is your own > plane... > > The only V-speed that does your plane any good is the Vne > > All the other speeds have to be found with your own plane , you can > get a "Ballpark" idea from other peoples V-speeds , but your planes > weight is different from theirs.... > > The "formula" for finding "all" of your " V-speeds " ( eccept Vne ) > is found in the > > Amateur-built aircraft and ultralight Flight testing handbook - > > AC NO: 90-89A > > If you look at Chapter 5 " Expanding The Envelope " > > it explains how to find "YOUR" V-speeds.... > > Just like finding your STALL speed , you got a Ballpark idea from > other planes , but you needed to find out where YOUR plane stalled.... > > Some of these other numbers work off of your stall speed.... > > ( something like 1.3 times the stall speed to get Vx ??? ) > > Hope this helps... > > Gotta Fly... > Mike & "Jaz" in MN > > -------- > . > . > . > . > . > Do Not Archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65066#65066 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:44 PM PST US From: Mike Schnabel Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trim - Engine Washers John, curious to know. During your experimentation with the Firestar and trim tabs, were there any significant changes with location? As in, inboard or outboard in the elevator, high or low on the rudder? And did you try one on the aileron as well? Mike S Manchester TN do not archive Larry: Yes, a high mounted pusher will definitely push the nose down. Look at it as a long lever with the thrust on the end of it. My mkIII needs a lot of nose up trim at cruise, although I have lowered the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer somewhat. However, when I pull the power off or shut the engine down, the aircraft is trimmed up perfect in pitch and yaw without the aid of forced trim or trim tabs. Also have to remember how and where the prop wash hits the tail section. From my experimentation, the prop wash is what we are working against, not angle of thrust. I did the angle of thrust experiements many years ago on my FS, primarily to eliminate the requirement for trim tabs. When it was all over, I put a trim tab on the rudder, elevator, and aileron. My FS was trimmed out perfectly and the the trim tabs were not noticeable. In fact, the aircraft won several nice awards including the small trim tabs. Take care, john h mkIII --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:07 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Kolbra at the Airshow From: "John Williamson" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" Hi All, Here are some photos taken the the Alliance Airshow, Fort Worth, TX this Saturday and Sunday. We had over 200,000 people come out and look at the airplanes and Airshow. To keep this Kolb related, look at the first photo. -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65096#65096 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0274_547.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0269_110.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0266_876.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0230_123.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0221_912.jpg ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:05 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trim --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Nicely Said ! ! ! :-) Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Cottrell" Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:32 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trim > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" > > flew until 1215 today and then used the rest of the day installing my > Kunzelman strobes. Every thing was fine until I tried to make the plug > connection that goes into the box. Man there has to be a better way. I > just was not comfortable with the way that the plugs were put together, so > I ended up soldering them. I like the strobes, the service and the man, > but his ears had to be burning today! They need to connect the plug ends > at the factory and leave one end open so that you can cut them to the size > that you want. > > Larry, Or > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:49 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Trim Tabs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" | John, curious to know. During your experimentation with the Firestar and trim tabs, were there any significant changes with location? As in, inboard or outboard in the elevator, high or low on the rudder? And did you try one on the aileron as well? | Mike S | Manchester TN Hi Mike S: I changed the subject to reflect what we are talking about. I feel info of this type needs to be included in the archive. If we have the correct subject, it will be less difficult for the user to find the info he is looking for. Did not have to experiment with the trim tabs reference their location. I felt the location should be where they had the most mechanical advantage, which was where the cord was longest. That worked well for the rudder and elevator. For the aileron I placed the tab about center. I like to fly the aileron up with the tab, which brings that wing down. I used .016" 6061 sheet. Attached them with fabric rivets. Worked well and made it easy to remove if necessary. Take care, john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:56 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim Tabs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" Well I found my trim tab today, can't find my knife now! Anyway, I installed it, trimmed the ailerons up enough to take care of any deflection. For anyone that is interested I mounted the tab right next to the attach point on the elevator. With the tab on I had it climbing all the time. Had to hold down elevator. Nice change. I took the time to go see some of the country from the air. Chuckar season starts this weekend, so I wanted to know what water holes were wet. Nice part about the desert is that if you find water you find game. Spent the rest of the windy part of the day installing the ELT. Now Karen can find me if I don't come home! After feeding the birds this evening, I still had enough time to get in the air and do some checking on the prop. It does appear that the prop (warp Drive) does what it is advertised to do. I saw 6500 on takeoff and climb out so the prop is running about optimum I cut it back to 6000 which was where I normally cruise. There was no apparent wind as I flew a triangle and could find no real difference in airspeed. ( 2 or 3 MPH at most) ASI appeared to be right on with the GPS and I was seeing 66 MPH GPS. That is about 4 MPH faster than what I used to see before the rebuild- bigger tires. There is one other difference in that I left the silencer off this time. That should not affect the speed as it only affects horsepower. The VG's are back on the wings and with the exception of the tires every thing is the same. I guess the bottom line is that if I were to buy another prop, I would spend the extra money for the mod. Now with the trim problem taken care of, I finally have my fun airplane back. It has been an ordeal, and cost a bunch of money, but it is also worth it! Larry, Oregon ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:04 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim Tabs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Good job well done, Larry. You really went thru the wars. Lar. Do not Archive. P.S. Vamoose' redrive broke again on start up. Really broke this time, so that's an end to it. It's going in the trash. I'm looking at alternatives, but any action will hafta wait a few months till I can afford it. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Cottrell" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 7:34 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim Tabs > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" > > Well I found my trim tab today, can't find my knife now! Anyway, I > installed it, trimmed the ailerons up enough to take care of any > deflection. For anyone that is interested I mounted the tab right next to > the attach point on the elevator. With the tab on I had it climbing all > the time. Had to hold ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:36 PM PST US From: "john s. flannery" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim Tabs Larry, Ah, Alectoris chukar, the finest table bird ever imported into the USA. Good old biologist Gardiner Bump and his good efforts before we went to war with that area of the world. We must chat sometime about those feathered wonders. Here with the improving, but no healed Mark III, I have, needless to say, kept roads, trails and the infrequent waterholes in sight and or gliding range. Here's one little waterhole I found not far from T or C Airport. Might be used by mulies, livestock, roadrunners, whitewing doves, two or even three species of quail, coyotes, even fox, but if Nuevo Mexico has chukars, I haven't heard about it. This pond won't last long with the temperature today starting at 48 and soaring to 87 by afternoon. jsf do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Cottrell" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 7:34 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim Tabs > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" > > Well I found my trim tab today, can't find my knife now! Anyway, I > installed it, trimmed the ailerons up enough to take care of any > deflection. For anyone that is interested I mounted the tab right next to > the attach point on the elevator. With the tab on I had it climbing all > the time. Had to hold down elevator. Nice change. I took the time to go > see some of the country from the air. Chuckar season starts this weekend, > so I wanted to know what water holes were wet. Nice part about the desert > is that if you find water you find game. Spent the rest of the windy part > of the day installing the ELT. Now Karen can find me if I don't come home! > > After feeding the birds this evening, I still had enough time to get in > the air and do some checking on the prop. It does appear that the prop > (warp Drive) does what it is advertised to do. I saw 6500 on takeoff and > climb out so the prop is running about optimum I cut it back to 6000 which > was where I normally cruise. There was no apparent wind as I flew a > triangle and could find no real difference in airspeed. ( 2 or 3 MPH at > most) ASI appeared to be right on with the GPS and I was seeing 66 MPH > GPS. That is about 4 MPH faster than what I used to see before the > rebuild- bigger tires. There is one other difference in that I left the > silencer off this time. That should not affect the speed as it only > affects horsepower. The VG's are back on the wings and with the exception > of the tires every thing is the same. I guess the bottom line is that if I > were to buy another prop, I would spend the extra money for the mod. > > Now with the trim problem taken care of, I finally have my fun airplane > back. It has been an ordeal, and cost a bunch of money, but it is also > worth it! > > Larry, Oregon > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:41 PM PST US From: Arksey@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: john Williamson and Alliance airshow Thanks John for the pictures...Your Kolb is parked with the big boys.....Looks like the same Titian that flew along the shoreline of Lake Superior here in Michigan a couple of years ago, great picture of the fighters and also of the flag... Jim swan firestar ll mich. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:00 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive I mentioned a problem with Vamoose' redrive a bit ago, and have been asked for more info, so I guess I should share it with all. I'm not really crazy about this, but......... I started the engine without the prop on a few weeks ago, and it ran great. NO OIL LEAKS ! ! ! I thought I was home free, and was daydreaming about actually flying the thing, and wanted to get it in the air by Nov. 15 - the 10th anniversary of receiving the kit from TOK. I was really going for it - working on it every day after work. So, I bolted the prop back on, safety wired it, and lit 'er up. The engine started to fire, then backfired or kicked back - or both - and there was a loud bang and a jolt and the engine stopped. Hitting the starter didn't even wiggle the prop, so I shut everything off and tried hand propping it. Wouldn't move, so I tore that s.o.b. redrive off - again - and tore it apart - again. Here's a picture of what I found. That chain literally exploded. I think that's more than a great plenty. I've stubbornly worked thru several issues with that thing, and that's enuf. I don't want to fly in front of it, so it goes in the trash. >From here ?? I dunno yet. I'm researching a couple of other redrives, but it's too early to say yet. I'll keep ya posted. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III Vamoose www.gogittum.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:17 PM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > Here's a picture of what I found. That chain > literally exploded. Holy crap! Just for info...is either drive hub/gear cushioned on the shaft or just bolted up solid? Jim Baker 580.788.2779 Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:56 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Kolb-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Kolb-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Kolb-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kolb-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kolb-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kolb-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Kolb-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Kolb-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Kolb-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kolb ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kolb-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kolb-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:34 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the Kolb-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Kolb-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kolb-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kolb-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive