Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:48 AM - Re: rectifying problems maybe (N27SB@aol.com)
2. 11:10 AM - eis (Larry Cottrell)
3. 12:10 PM - Re: EIS (Ralph Hoover)
4. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: EIS (Larry Cottrell)
5. 12:56 PM - Re: rectifying problems maybe (UNCLASSIFIED) (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
6. 01:32 PM - Re: EIS (Ralph Hoover)
7. 01:59 PM - Planecrazzy! (Ralph Hoover)
8. 02:28 PM - Redundant Fuel Supply (Ralph Hoover)
9. 03:35 PM - Re: Planecrazzy! (planecrazzzy)
10. 04:10 PM - Re: Planecrazzy! (Ralph Hoover)
11. 04:15 PM - Re: Re: Planecrazzy! (David Lehman)
12. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive (Larry Bourne)
13. 06:02 PM - Re: Planecrazzy! (Ralph Hoover)
14. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: Planecrazzy! (David Lehman)
15. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: Planecrazzy! (Larry Cottrell)
16. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: EIS (possums)
17. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Planecrazzy! (Jack B. Hart)
18. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: Planecrazzy! (John Hauck)
19. 09:02 PM - Videos (possums)
20. 09:14 PM - Re: Videos (Larry Bourne)
21. 09:19 PM - Re: EIS (WillUribe@aol.com)
22. 09:48 PM - EIS (Larry Cottrell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: rectifying problems maybe |
In a message dated 10/3/2006 10:56:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jsflan@valornet.com writes:
Travis said this man built Ray Foster's Kolb, jpg attached. It is a perfect
beauty.
jsf
do not archive
j,
Travis is probably right, I see the classic Melborn hand grips on the wing
tips. Give Bryan a call and he will give you the size and position tab to try.
Compare that to your other research and I think you will be successful.
Steve
Message 2
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I forgot to mention in my earlier post about the fuel capacitance
sender. EIS sells the Princeton model that measures in increments that
are comparable to gallons. The model of sender that I now have, four
of, is the Westach. The only requirement is that the output is 5 volts
and they do that. I do not find that the differences in numbers that
confusing. The important part to me is that the rascal has a flashing
red light right in front of my eyes that I cannot forget or ignore.
Larry, Oregon
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Larry, I am amazed that they didn't tell you that part. THey also must have failed
to inform you of the gun locate point system imbeded in the master chip,
nor the "ON Service" internal phone chip.
Man, People are falling down at the job out there.
Larry, there are 38 million additional things these chips can do that they haven't
found uses for. Give them time.
I know they didn't tell you about the built in Kolb "Yellper" device, which advises
you via horn device when you want to "pull back stick" for your flair.
That was an option on my gauges.
Just kidding.
DO not archive.
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65799#65799
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
I suppose that they also included the "stick" that you use to change your
display screens as well? Was it Hickory or perhaps "Piss Fir Pine"? :-)
Couldn't resist!
Larry, Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@columbus.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: EIS
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover"
> <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>
> Larry, I am amazed that they didn't tell you that part. THey also must
> have failed to inform you of the gun locate point system imbeded in the
> master chip, nor the "ON Service" internal phone chip.
>
> Man, People are falling down at the job out there.
>
>
> Larry, there are 38 million additional things these chips can do that they
> haven't found uses for. Give them time.
>
> I know they didn't tell you about the built in Kolb "Yellper" device,
> which advises you via horn device when you want to "pull back stick" for
> your flair.
>
> That was an option on my gauges.
>
> Just kidding.
> DO not archive.
>
> Ohio Ralph
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65799#65799
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: rectifying problems maybe (UNCLASSIFIED) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE
<< Have been holding right rudder...just a bit... to keep it straight.
The huge rudder trim tab, bent about 15 or so degrees to right as you
face the cockpit. jsf >>
John -
>From your post, and after looking at the picture you attached, it
appears your trim tab is bent the WRONG way!
If you need to apply right rudder to keep the airplane in trim, then a
trim tab bent to the LEFT is what you want. This causes the free stream
air to deflect your rudder to the right, thus alleviating your need to
hold right rudder.
Dennis Kirby, yer neighbor to the north, in
Cedar Crest, NM
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Thank you Larry for noting that. The stick, in staying with high tech, whilst also
applying light weight is made of 1/4" diameter Poly / Kevlar. It will handle
6,000 pounds end loading (it could hold a car in the air if it were placed
on c.g.), while weighing only 3.7 oz. I added little plastic red pointer ends
that weigh a bit more but the overall weight is 5.0 oz.
My problem is reaching to get it and then "pointing it onto (at) the buttons. I
asked the manufacturer to employ a remote switch (say on the stick, or near the
throttle) with momentary contact in order to "reset" the "flashing, blinking,
blinking, flashing" lights used as warning. I know enough about chip tech
to say that they have that already built in, but haven't learned to access it
or applied the necessary software patch. It really is the Achilles' heel to the
glass gauges that I have.
If any one would want to buy these new, tell them that they need to fix that problem.
We "STRAP' Ourselves in and we cant reach the &^%&^% buttons!
The company that sells them is ;
Stratomaster through Sport Flying Shop. Maybe if enough people want this corrected,
they will fix it and then the instrument is "unbeatable"!
Ohio Ralph
Do not archive!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65815#65815
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Planecrazzy, Probably never thought of your name in BOLD, but there it is a topic
addressed as Planecrazzy.
Brother of the sky. You put a bug in my ear a while back about "you have the 5
inch spacer?", regarding the prop distance from the back of the wing.
I thought hard and long about that and it f, for whatever reason, stuck with me.
Today I moved my prop in line with the front mount tabs for the wings and discovered
that it is within 39 1/2" of the tabs in front. The prop therefore is
within 4.7 inches from the rear of the front of the aileron tube.
However, it is within 2.7 inches of the Aileron horn when it is in the up position.
Now, the Aileron horn is midway (approximately ) or greater to the center
of the prop . Therefore, the prop tip would not be coming close to it. When IVO
states in their installation instructions: " five inches from any obstruction."
I find it hard to imagine, but I must believe, that the prop could flex BACK
5 inches and Front 5 inches, or 10 inches total, at the tip!
What has been your experience? Because in the air is the last place to actually
experiment with things that go boom!
Ohio Ralph
See picture of existing prop mount. Stack-up from B box prop mount to prop centerline
is 2.0.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65823#65823
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf1167_small_180.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Redundant Fuel Supply |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
THird time! Some reason, it will not reduce the pictures to little ones. Anyone
with dial-up, look out. I tried.
I have enclosed the pictures of the duel fuel supply system I and several others
are using at our field. If you need more details, let me know. No fuel related
problems on any of the planes to date.
It contains:
1 aluminum mounting plate whcih mounts using existing engine screws.
2 bottom outlets on the new Kolb 6 gal. fuel tank.
2 Fuel filters with glass visual.
1 Facet fuel pump.
2 Check valves.
1 Manifold with pressure gauge inlet (no gauge installed as yet).
An easy access panel to see and correct any fuel related problems in the rear of
my KXP Firestar with 503 DCDI.
The idea here was to have a back-up fuel system in case the mechanical pump mounted
on the engine quite. Incorporating this idea was the need to NOT create another
potential problem, leak path, or in flight worry. Using this approach,
the fuel cannot "loop" back through the system if one half of the duel gave out
or leaked. The other is to make sure that there was a way to "check" both halfs
of the duel fuel supply system. Electric fuel switch on, pump (electric) pumps.
Feel bowls full, start engine. Turn off electric fuel pump, now system is
reliant on machanical fuel pump. Run through check list, enter field. Throtle
up full, check mags. Throtle down, turn on electric fuel pump and "Bob's your
Uncle"!
Oh, In order to use this approach as I have it noted above, you need at least a
5 amp battery for the system. I do not use an electric start, but do use back-up
electric with my glass instruments. No info is not a nice place to be in an
airplane. The battery cost $ 24.00 and weighs very little. It is mounted directly
under my seat on the right side.
Any suggestions, recomemdations or questions?
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65827#65827
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf1173_small_143.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf1172_small_144.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf1174_small_small_195.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hey Ralph,
I didn't say I had a 5" spacer...I said IVO calls for 5" of clearance...
I have a 3" spacer... ( $80 bucks )
Jack Hart has done some experimenting with the flexing....
He taped paper to the aileron and Flew.... Then he looked at the paper streamers
that he had placed in the area of the prop arc...
Jack....Do you have that page or data handy ???
Here's a picture of my prop extention...
Gotta Fly...
Planecrazzzy ( That's 3 - Z's )
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65839#65839
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_extention__3_inch_109.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Hey, Planecrazzy, Sorry. But what I said was " "you have the 5 inch spacer?" There
was a Question mark refering to you (first person) asking me if I had the
5" spacer.
That covered, That is the largest 3" I have ever seen. Must be the angle.
Any help would be appreciated.
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65843#65843
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
Educate me, why do you need the spacer and is it only required on an IVO?..
.
DVD
On 10/4/06, planecrazzzy <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey Ralph,
> I didn't say I had a 5" spacer...I said IVO calls for 5" o
f
> clearance...
>
> I have a 3" spacer... ( $80 bucks )
>
> Jack Hart has done some experimenting with the flexing....
>
> He taped paper to the aileron and Flew.... Then he looked at the paper
> streamers that he had placed in the area of the prop arc...
>
> Jack....Do you have that page or data handy ???
>
> Here's a picture of my prop extention...
>
> Gotta Fly...
> Planecrazzzy ( That's 3 - Z's )
>
> --------
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> Do Not Archive
>
>
--
"Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"...
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Thanks, Richard. If you could put me in contact with him, it'd be a great
favor. The drive looked good to me, too, but when I emailed about it, he
just emailed back, "sorry, no." Not a whole gang of interest there.
It sounds like you've been jumping thru hoops and going to the wars with
yours, too. Hang in there........sounds like you've got it in hand.
I had planned to come to Florida again this year, but wanted so badly to try
the Bella Coola, B.C. area again - hoping for better weather - that I just
hadta give it a go. Am I ever glad. I got my good weather and it turned
into one of the most spectacular vacations of my career. I also had an
adventure with a "green eyed monster" in a cave that's kinda funny in
retrospect. Literally, and scared the bejeezus out of me at the time. See
the Riske Creek page. I haven't built webpages yet, but have published
short stories on the Nikon Talk Forum that you and others may enjoy. Here's
the links to them - dial ups shouldn't have a problem............... Be
sure to click on the pictures to open them full size.
Riske Creek -
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19477815
Chilko Lake -
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19378437
Bella Coola -
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19413502
FlightSeeing -
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19441435
Telegraph Cove -
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19515418
Humpbacks -
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19530814
The "FlightSeeing" tour is what inspired me to get back after Vamoose
seriously, and I really wanted to trailer the fool thing back up there next
year to fly myself around. What a spectacular country. I'm not sure yet if
I'll return there next year with or without a plane, but the call is strong.
Then again, the call to do more fishing, visiting and sightseeing in Florida
and Lousy-ana is pretty strong, too. We'll see.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski"
> <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
>
> Hello Big Lar.
>
> For a while I thought you might beat me into the air, but now I have hope
> again!!
>
> A few thoughts: 1) I have the SPG & it is a bullet proof unit with a BMW
> rubber donut, rated for 150hp. It would be a great match for you if only
> a VW adapter was offered. the north america dealer told me a guy in CA
> made a VW adapter & it was just a flat plate. He could probably get you
> the guys name. The rotax e-box might be the best way as it incorporates a
> starter & that might save you a lot of weight, but they won't sell you one
> unless you provice a serial # of your rotax engine.
> 2) About wiggles: All inline 3 cyl (2 or 4 stroke) rotate around the axis
> of the crank. Nothing will stop it but a counter rotating shaft. All 4
> cyl inlines jump up & down & only a counter rotating shaft stops that.
> the flat opposed 4 is inherantly cancelled & is the smoothest
> configuraton. The wiggles from the inline 3 & 4's are obviously
> sufficiently delt with in thousands of instances or they wouldn't be seen
> in aviation. Everything is a compromise!
>
> 3) Please don't give up!!!! You are a hero to many of us.
>
> Progress Report: After coming up with a 42% cg I had to drop back & start
> afreh. I moved the engine 12" forward which caused me to weld up a new
> oilpan & oil pickup. That's done. Now the engine sat too high so I cut
> out the engine mount & backbone which left a bigggg hole to drop the
> engine (3cyl, Suzuki, 100hp, turbo, intercooled, distributorless ignition,
> port injected, 107 lbs torque at 3600 rpm) into my SlingShot. I bought a
> tig welder & wish I had done so years ago. It is so easy & does such a
> beautiful job & no sparks to fly! After just messing with the oil pan, I
> am confident to start on the kolbs structure. that's not done yet. I
> keep changing the design & am going in circles. Its hard to keep it
> simple, light & strong--- Kolb is a genius at that! I will prevail.
>
> Looking forward to another visit when you pass this way. -richard
> swiderski
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65632#65632
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
David, According to IVO's installation instructions, because of flexure of their
brand prop, clearance between the leading edge at the end of the prop (my assumption),
can be as much as 5". I'm not sure if the fact thta the prop could
be used on a pusher as well as a puller if the 5" clearance is total fore and
aft or per side. Thats a lot of movement in my humble opinion. Now if that is
only at the ends of the blades (tips), then half way up on each blade half (or
1/3, if three blade) would not flex any where nera that amount.
I really don't want to stick a spacer that long on the back of my gear box. If
I am anywhere near correct in my math, the longer a moment is the more foot pounds
at distance it has to work with. Even if the clearance is minimal between
the bolt shank and the individual mounting holes, it has a larger moment of purchase.
I also know that the sheer rating on these bolts is pretty high but man.
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65877#65877
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
I agree with your concerns Ralph... That's why I asked, because it just
didn't make sense to me to put more stress on the gearbox and bolts...
Of course, this is coming from a guy who just lost his prop and hub in
flight...
DVD
On 10/4/06, Ralph Hoover <flht99reh@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.co
m
> >
>
> David, According to IVO's installation instructions, because of flexure o
f
> their brand prop, clearance between the leading edge at the end of the pr
op
> (my assumption), can be as much as 5". I'm not sure if the fact thta the
> prop could be used on a pusher as well as a puller if the 5" clearance is
> total fore and aft or per side. Thats a lot of movement in my humble
> opinion. Now if that is only at the ends of the blades (tips), then half
way
> up on each blade half (or 1/3, if three blade) would not flex any where n
era
> that amount.
>
> I really don't want to stick a spacer that long on the back of my gear
> box. If I am anywhere near correct in my math, the longer a moment is the
> more foot pounds at distance it has to work with. Even if the clearance i
s
> minimal between the bolt shank and the individual mounting holes, it has
a
> larger moment of purchase. I also know that the sheer rating on these bol
ts
> is pretty high but man.
>
> Ohio Ralph
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65877#65877
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
"Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"...
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
Ralph,
In 1997 I bought a used IVO 68 inch prop from Dennis Souder at Old Kolb.
With it came a 2 1/2 inch spacer. I used it until this year when I wrecked
the plane and the prop. I had no problems with the prop or the gear box.
Larry,Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@columbus.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:02 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Planecrazzy!
> I really don't want to stick a spacer that long on the back of my gear
> box. If I am anywhere near correct in my math, the longer a moment is the
> more foot pounds at distance it has to work with. Even if the clearance is
> minimal between the bolt shank and the individual mounting holes, it has a
> larger moment of purchase. I also know that the sheer rating on these
> bolts is pretty high but man.
>
> Ohio Ralph
Message 16
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At 04:31 PM 10/4/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>
>
>My problem is reaching to get it and then "pointing it onto (at) the
>buttons. I asked the manufacturer to employ a remote switch (say on
>the stick, or near the throttle) with momentary contact in order to
>"reset" the "flashing, blinking, blinking, flashing" lights used as
>warning. I know enough about chip tech to say that they have that
>already built in, but haven't learned to access it or applied the
>necessary software patch. It really is the Achilles' heel to the
>glass gauges that I have.
Here's what he remote buttons look like (they're are "3" - one under
the helmet plug).
Just for those that don't know what the remote buttons on the EIS
system looks like.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 03:35 PM 10/4/06 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
>
>Hey Ralph,
> I didn't say I had a 5" spacer...I said IVO calls for 5" of clearance...
>
> I have a 3" spacer... ( $80 bucks )
>
> Jack Hart has done some experimenting with the flexing....
>
> He taped paper to the aileron and Flew.... Then he looked at the paper streamers
that he had placed in the area of the prop arc...
>
> Jack....Do you have that page or data handy ???
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly83.html
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Thats a lot of movement in my humble opinion. Now if that is only at
the ends of the blades (tips), then half way up on each blade half (or
1/3, if three blade) would not flex any where nera that amount.
|
|
| Ohio Ralph
Ralph:
I believe the blades flex most on start up and shut down. Hooking a
strobe light with sensor to your airplane, and shooting it at night
will show you just how much the blades dance.
Early on with my 912 and again on my 912ULS I had blade strikes on
start up, but it took a long time to determine that this was when the
strikes were actually happening. A two inch extension on the 912UL
and a 4 inch extension on the 912ULS took care of that problem.
Coning of the prop can best be demonstrated with the main rotors on a
helicopter. If you get a chance to watch a Flying Crane pick up a
heavy load to a hover, you will see what coning is. That's because he
is maintaining an operational rotor rpm and increasing pitch and
power.
I don't know how much coning effect we get with IVO's or Warp Drive
props in flight. Perhaps Jack Hart has done some extensive
experimentation in that area. I doubt that there is very much based
on prop speed and fixed pitch props. As rpm and airspeed increases,
seems like centrifugal force would reduce coning.
I don't think you can see how much the prop blades flex on start up
and shut down, but when you get a good blade strike, you can feel and
hear it.
Take care,
john h
Message 19
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Got some more videos if you guys want to see them.
Only problem is - I put a wide angle lens on the camera.
- so it looks like I'm 300 ft AGL instead of 100 ft.
Everything looks like somebody is taking the pictures
200 ft behind me. Not so good......
Message 20
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Well, c'mon, go fer it. Whatcha waitin' for ?? Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: possums
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:02 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Videos
Got some more videos if you guys want to see them.
Only problem is - I put a wide angle lens on the camera.
- so it looks like I'm 300 ft AGL instead of 100 ft.
Everything looks like somebody is taking the pictures
200 ft behind me. Not so good......
Message 21
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At 04:31 PM 10/4/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover"
<_flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com_ (mailto:flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com) >
>
>
>My problem is reaching to get it and then "pointing it onto (at) the
>buttons. I asked the manufacturer to employ a remote switch (say on
>the stick, or near the throttle) with momentary contact in order to
>"reset" the "flashing, blinking, blinking, flashing" lights used as
>warning. I know enough about chip tech to say that they have that
>already built in, but haven't learned to access it or applied the
>necessary software patch. It really is the Achilles' heel to the
>glass gauges that I have.
I installed the remote switches under the seat pan so all I do is reach down
and push the corresponding button.
Message 22
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Or there is this method of mounting the eis buttons.
Larry, Oregon
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