Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:09 AM - EIS (Richard Pike)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction DriveVamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive (Thom Riddle)
3. 05:25 AM - Propeller Extensions (Jack B. Hart)
4. 05:39 AM - Re: Propeller Extensions (David Lehman)
5. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction DriveVamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive (Larry Bourne)
6. 06:34 AM - Re: Planecrazzy! (Ralph Hoover)
7. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive (Denny Rowe)
8. 07:10 AM - Re: Propeller Extensions (Ralph Hoover)
9. 07:21 AM - Re: EIS (Ralph Hoover)
10. 07:29 AM - Re: Propeller Extensions (Jack B. Hart)
11. 07:32 AM - Prop Extensions (changed the subject line to reflect content) (John Hauck)
12. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: EIS (John Hauck)
13. 07:40 AM - Re: Propeller Extensions (David Lehman)
14. 07:45 AM - Re: Propeller Extensions (John Hauck)
15. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction DriveVamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
16. 08:55 AM - Re: EIS (Ralph Hoover)
17. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: Planecrazzy! (David Downey)
18. 10:15 AM - Re: Propeller Extensions (David Downey)
19. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: EIS (Michael Sharp)
20. 02:42 PM - Re: Planecrazzy! (planecrazzzy)
21. 03:44 PM - Re: Planecrazzy! (Ralph Hoover)
22. 03:48 PM - Re: EIS (Ralph Hoover)
23. 04:01 PM - Re: Prop Extensions (changed the subject line to reflect content (Ralph Hoover)
24. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: EIS (Michael Sharp)
25. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: EIS (Steven Green)
26. 06:06 PM - This is your Captain speaking! (Ralph Hoover)
27. 07:03 PM - Re: EIS (Ralph Hoover)
28. 08:38 PM - Re: Re: EIS (Bob Noyer)
Message 1
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|
We put all the switches in a plastic box from Radio Shack and attached
it to the side of the FSII fuselage. Worked pretty easy, and easy to
reach.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Panel%20Switches.html
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction DriveVamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Big Lar,
Thanks for the great photos. ALWAYS enjoy them.
I sure hope you get your speed reducer situation fixed so you can do
your own flight-seeing. I know a direct drive is not going to give you
the performance you want but if you did that as an interim solution
while you saved your pennies for a good speed reducer, at least you
would be able to fly. Of course if your density altitude is too high or
your runway too short then that might not work. Just a thought.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Propeller Extensions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
At 06:02 PM 10/4/06 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
>
>David, According to IVO's installation instructions, because of flexure of their
brand prop, clearance between the leading edge at the end of the prop (my assumption),
can be as much as 5". I'm not sure if the fact thta the prop could
be used on a pusher as well as a puller if the 5" clearance is total fore and
aft or per side. Thats a lot of movement in my humble opinion. Now if that is
only at the ends of the blades (tips), then half way up on each blade half (or
1/3, if three blade) would not flex any where nera that amount.
>
>I really don't want to stick a spacer that long on the back of my gear box. If
I am anywhere near correct in my math, the longer a moment is the more foot pounds
at distance it has to work with. Even if the clearance is minimal between
the bolt shank and the individual mounting holes, it has a larger moment of
purchase. I also know that the sheer rating on these bolts is pretty high but
man.
>
>Ohio Ralph
>
David & Ralph,
If the propeller extension is properly made and the propeller bolts are
properly torqued, the bolts will not experience shear loads. The compressed
surfaces between the extension, the flange and the propeller will take all
the shear loads. The bolts will be in tension.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Extensions |
Jack...
Obviously I'm not an engineer, so I'm probably asking obvious questions,
but... Doesn't the longer moment/overhang induce shear trauma to the bolts
,
especially at the head/shank or nut/shank areas, depending on which is at
the gearbox flange?...
DVD
On 10/5/06, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
> At 06:02 PM 10/4/06 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <
> flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
> >
> >David, According to IVO's installation instructions, because of flexure
> of their brand prop, clearance between the leading edge at the end of the
> prop (my assumption), can be as much as 5". I'm not sure if the fact thta
> the prop could be used on a pusher as well as a puller if the 5" clearanc
e
> is total fore and aft or per side. Thats a lot of movement in my humble
> opinion. Now if that is only at the ends of the blades (tips), then half
way
> up on each blade half (or 1/3, if three blade) would not flex any where n
era
> that amount.
> >
> >I really don't want to stick a spacer that long on the back of my gear
> box. If I am anywhere near correct in my math, the longer a moment is the
> more foot pounds at distance it has to work with. Even if the clearance i
s
> minimal between the bolt shank and the individual mounting holes, it has
a
> larger moment of purchase. I also know that the sheer rating on these bol
ts
> is pretty high but man.
> >
> >Ohio Ralph
> >
>
> David & Ralph,
>
> If the propeller extension is properly made and the propeller bolts are
> properly torqued, the bolts will not experience shear loads. The
> compressed
> surfaces between the extension, the flange and the propeller will take al
l
> the shear loads. The bolts will be in tension.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
> do not archive
>
>
--
"Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"...
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction DriveVamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Thanks, Thom. I just wish I had more time to take those pictures. Full
time would be nice. lol Someday.......??
Me being me, if the plane was flying as a direct drive, procrastination
would probably delay further work indefinitely. :-) The biggest thing
against that, tho', is lower performance in an area known for huge density
altitude compensations, and the Palm Springs area is partly surrounded by
huge mountains, and the remaining areas are mostly MOA's.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction DriveVamoose' Ex-Reduction
Drive
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> Big Lar,
>
> Thanks for the great photos. ALWAYS enjoy them.
>
> I sure hope you get your speed reducer situation fixed so you can do your
> own flight-seeing. I know a direct drive is not going to give you the
> performance you want but if you did that as an interim solution while you
> saved your pennies for a good speed reducer, at least you would be able to
> fly. Of course if your density altitude is too high or your runway too
> short then that might not work. Just a thought.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Well, thanks to Jack Hart, John, H., Planecrazzy, Larry and others, I heard what
I didn't want to hear.
Know the feeling. You hear something and hope that it isn't true, only to find
out it is. Couldn't you guys all just lie one time? Ha, HA!
I'll tell ya one thing, when Jack Hart sinks his teeth into something he was the
one the word "tenacity" was created from. Jack, your a benchmark!
And John Hauck, yes Sir I have seen some of them big house movers here in Ohio
and know what you speak as the coning. I see that as the load is applied the beaters
reach higher and higher until the weight of lift is equal or exceeds the
weight of the lifted. That also concerns me in the coming and the going: full
throttle at takeoff and pull power to land! Smack, smack, smack coming from
behind me doesn't excite me in the least. Now I question as to 5" spacer (which
adds some of its own problems), or get another blade. Had a nice Tennessee woody
on before. Never gave consideration to flexure. Guess I ASS UMED there would
be very little and that any would be the nature of the beast. Therefore corrected
for in the design.
What IVO is telling us is that even though the flexure is "designed in", we need
to deal with it by correcting at our end.
This 5" extension also gets us into another subject area. Not C.G., for that has
changed very little but for and aft of C.G. effect. If 1# at 10 feet equals
10# then what does thrust at 5" farther aft do to thrust line? I know it may be
trivial, but in the initial design all these things are taken into consideration,
only to be altered down the road by our modifications. I know, John Hauck,
That's why they call it "experimental".
Live and learning here in Ohio Ralph!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65957#65957
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Larry,
I would advise you to stick with a redrive and company who has several units
mounted on the same type of engines as yours, not one who may or may not
want to develop one for a VW.
Also if I recall correctly, you have a pretty high compression version of
the VW which will increase the torsional problems quite a bit.
I would think V belts are called for here to allow slip and flex.
Denny Rowe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Thanks, Richard. If you could put me in contact with him, it'd be a great
> favor. The drive looked good to me, too, but when I emailed about it, he
> just emailed back, "sorry, no." Not a whole gang of interest there.
>
> It sounds like you've been jumping thru hoops and going to the wars with
> yours, too. Hang in there........sounds like you've got it in hand.
>
> I had planned to come to Florida again this year, but wanted so badly to
> try the Bella Coola, B.C. area again - hoping for better weather - that I
> just hadta give it a go. Am I ever glad. I got my good weather and it
> turned into one of the most spectacular vacations of my career. I also
> had an adventure with a "green eyed monster" in a cave that's kinda funny
> in retrospect. Literally, and scared the bejeezus out of me at the time.
> See the Riske Creek page. I haven't built webpages yet, but have
> published short stories on the Nikon Talk Forum that you and others may
> enjoy. Here's the links to them - dial ups shouldn't have a
> problem............... Be sure to click on the pictures to open them
> full size.
>
> Riske Creek -
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19477815
>
> Chilko Lake -
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19378437
>
> Bella Coola -
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19413502
>
> FlightSeeing -
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19441435
>
> Telegraph Cove -
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19515418
>
> Humpbacks -
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=19530814
>
> The "FlightSeeing" tour is what inspired me to get back after Vamoose
> seriously, and I really wanted to trailer the fool thing back up there
> next year to fly myself around. What a spectacular country. I'm not sure
> yet if I'll return there next year with or without a plane, but the call
> is strong. Then again, the call to do more fishing, visiting and
> sightseeing in Florida and Lousy-ana is pretty strong, too. We'll see.
> Lar. Do not Archive.
>
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Building Kolb Mk III
> Vamoose
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:42 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski"
>> <rswiderski@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Hello Big Lar.
>>
>> For a while I thought you might beat me into the air, but now I have hope
>> again!!
>>
>> A few thoughts: 1) I have the SPG & it is a bullet proof unit with a BMW
>> rubber donut, rated for 150hp. It would be a great match for you if only
>> a VW adapter was offered. the north america dealer told me a guy in CA
>> made a VW adapter & it was just a flat plate. He could probably get you
>> the guys name. The rotax e-box might be the best way as it incorporates
>> a starter & that might save you a lot of weight, but they won't sell you
>> one unless you provice a serial # of your rotax engine.
>> 2) About wiggles: All inline 3 cyl (2 or 4 stroke) rotate around the
>> axis of the crank. Nothing will stop it but a counter rotating shaft.
>> All 4 cyl inlines jump up & down & only a counter rotating shaft stops
>> that. the flat opposed 4 is inherantly cancelled & is the smoothest
>> configuraton. The wiggles from the inline 3 & 4's are obviously
>> sufficiently delt with in thousands of instances or they wouldn't be seen
>> in aviation. Everything is a compromise!
>>
>> 3) Please don't give up!!!! You are a hero to many of us.
>>
>> Progress Report: After coming up with a 42% cg I had to drop back &
>> start afreh. I moved the engine 12" forward which caused me to weld up a
>> new oilpan & oil pickup. That's done. Now the engine sat too high so I
>> cut out the engine mount & backbone which left a bigggg hole to drop the
>> engine (3cyl, Suzuki, 100hp, turbo, intercooled, distributorless
>> ignition, port injected, 107 lbs torque at 3600 rpm) into my SlingShot.
>> I bought a tig welder & wish I had done so years ago. It is so easy &
>> does such a beautiful job & no sparks to fly! After just messing with
>> the oil pan, I am confident to start on the kolbs structure. that's not
>> done yet. I keep changing the design & am going in circles. Its hard to
>> keep it simple, light & strong--- Kolb is a genius at that! I will
>> prevail.
>>
>> Looking forward to another visit when you pass this way. -richard
>> swiderski
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65632#65632
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Extensions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
David, Though I am also NOT an engineer, many of the equipment pieces I design
and build for the plastic blow mold industry do require certain "engineering"
formulations to make properly. Probably enough knowledge to make me a danger to
thoses around me.
I am not saying that to downgrade Jacks qualifications. No way! I have seen to
much of his proof. I am saying that because of sheer, there is added stress, there
is induced load problems added when a rotating, vibrating piece of anything
is "extended" past its intended design to some degree.
Jack Hart said:"If the propeller extension is properly made and the propeller bolts
are properly torqued, the bolts will not experience shear loads. The compressed
surfaces between the extension, the flange and the propeller will take
all the shear loads. The bolts will be in tension.
I can't disagree with Jack on that one , with my little knowledge, that what he
is saying above is "mathematically" correct, in a perfect world. But Jack, you
do have a rotating device, however well balanced it may be. And because of its
rotation and the law of physics that says something about a body in motion
tending to stay in motion until it meets an immovable object, or a force greater
or lesser than its energy produced to that point. That prop, that hub and
all that mass will want to continue to move in its pleasing direction until something
causes it to waver, then get outa the way and Katty bar the doors. Cause
now you have a disoriented piece of energy wanting to "give into" the stronger
outside force. As long as every bolt is torqued to its specified load, all
is well. But you have to admit, Jack, as you add weight and distance to anything
you have a longer less forgiving moment of weight.
I say the latter part because I don't feel that "I" should need to correct "else
ware" for the "flexure" issue of a prop design.
Ohio Ralph
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65965#65965
Message 9
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
"EIS sells the Princeton model" which offers the addition of the remote switch.
Well Larry, My glass gauges are from the "Harvard model" and "included the stick!
QUOTES:
"I installed the remote switches under the seat pan so all I do is reach down and
push the corresponding button. "
"We put all the switches in a plastic box from Radio Shack and attached it to the
side of the FSII fuselage. Worked pretty easy, and easy to reach."
"Here's what he remote buttons look like (they're are "3" - one under
the helmet plug).
Just for those that don't know what the remote buttons on the EIS
system looks like."
And finally, from Larry:
"I suppose that they also included the "stick" that you use to change your
display screens as well? Was it Hickory or perhaps "Piss Fir Pine"?
Couldn't resist!
Larry, Oregon "
And you guys thought I was crazy using a stick! No wires, little additional weight,
no fancy mountings, least cost, quite a conversation piece, can be used on
any model aircraft, no instructions needed, simple to install, easly removable
and reparability is unimportant.
DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT "the stick"!
Ohio Ralph
Do not archive, unless you have the &*%&^% gauges I have!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65968#65968
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Extensions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
From: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
Jack...
Obviously I'm not an engineer, so I'm probably asking obvious questions,
but... Doesn't the longer moment/overhang induce shear trauma to the bolts,
especially at the head/shank or nut/shank areas, depending on which is at
the gearbox flange?...
DVD
David,
You are correct on your concept of shear at the head end of the bolt. But
the added shear stress due to moving the propeller weight out on the spacer
is minor compared to the shear stress induced from torquing the bolts to the
propeller manufacturer's spec.
You can check this out for your self. Take an old propeller bolt and some
flat washers and insert it inside a piece of pipe cut to length. Thread on
a nut and clamp the pipe in a vice. The using one wrench to prevent the nut
from turning, put your torque wench on the head and start torquing. How far
beyond the propeller manufacturer's limit will you be able to go before
there is a failure? Did the bolt pop off at the head, or did it fail at the
first thread, or some where in the middle?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 11
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| Subject: | Prop Extensions (changed the subject line to reflect content) |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
That also concerns me in the coming and the going: full throttle at
takeoff and pull power to land! Smack, smack, smack coming from behind
me doesn't excite me in the least. Now I question as to 5" spacer
(which adds some of its own problems),
| Live and learning here in Ohio Ralph!
Ralph:
Flying with an IVO or Warp or any other flexible prop blade is not the
problem with clearance, as I see and have experienced with my mkIII
and Warp Drive. As I mentioned in my last post, the problem occurs on
start up and shut down. This is the time there is not enough
centrifugal force to keep the blades under control, thus the
requirement for a prop extension to maintain adequate clearance.
The extension, I believe, that is required is the 4", not a 5"
extension. Maybe you are thinking of 5" clearance.
I don't know of any problems using prop extensions on Rotax gear
boxes. Like Jack Hart mentioned, the bolts are not in shear if
properly torqued. Bolt heads don't normally pop off and prop bolts
don't get sheared from the "massive" power of our engines. ;-) I
have had prop bolts break, but never more than one at a time, and very
isolated instances. Can't remember the last time I lost one.
As for changes in aircraft performance characteristics, the only
noticeable change I noticed in my airplane was reduction of noise.
Not at all quiet, but not quite as noisy when the prop got a little
space between it and the wing.
I did a lot of experimenting, many years ago, with the FS, changing
thrust line of the engine, up, down, left and right. Even
experimented with the 912's and the MKIII by raising the front of the
engine to bring the thrust line parallel with the bottom of the wing,
knowing this angle would change a little when the engine was producing
thrust. Have made extremely long cross country flights, i.e., Alaska,
with the engine in the stock and front raised positions. Could not
detect any noticeable difference in performance, and/or trim.
Trim problems associated with Kolb aircraft, in my humble opinion, are
caused by the way the prop wash hits the tail section, especially yaw
problems. Best solution I have found is a large enough trim tab to
off set the adverse yaw. It works for me now. Pitch down problems
are caused by the high thrust line and power.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Message 12
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
|
| DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT "the stick"!
|
| Ohio Ralph
Ralph:
The stick might become a little distracting, in addition to that damn
flashing light, when you are trying to fly a little airplane,
especially at the worst possible time when you are at your busiest to
keep it flying.
IMHO controls, switches, etc., need to be in a place where the hands
and/or eyes can find and operate them naturally without distraction
from flying the aircraft.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Propeller Extensions |
Good morning Jack...
Good visual, thanx...
David
On 10/5/06, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 05:38:27 -0700
> From: "David Lehman" <david@davidlehman.net>
>
> Jack...
>
> Obviously I'm not an engineer, so I'm probably asking obvious questions,
> but... Doesn't the longer moment/overhang induce shear trauma to the
> bolts,
> especially at the head/shank or nut/shank areas, depending on which is at
> the gearbox flange?...
>
> DVD
>
> David,
>
> You are correct on your concept of shear at the head end of the bolt. Bu
t
> the added shear stress due to moving the propeller weight out on the
> spacer
> is minor compared to the shear stress induced from torquing the bolts to
> the
> propeller manufacturer's spec.
>
> You can check this out for your self. Take an old propeller bolt and som
e
> flat washers and insert it inside a piece of pipe cut to length. Thread
> on
> a nut and clamp the pipe in a vice. The using one wrench to prevent the
> nut
> from turning, put your torque wench on the head and start torquing. How
> far
> beyond the propeller manufacturer's limit will you be able to go before
> there is a failure? Did the bolt pop off at the head, or did it fail at
> the
> first thread, or some where in the middle?
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
do not archive
>
>
--
"Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"...
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Extensions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| beyond the propeller manufacturer's limit will you be able to go
before
| there is a failure? Did the bolt pop off at the head, or did it
fail at the
| first thread, or some where in the middle?
|
| Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack:
Probably pull the threads before it breaks.
Aircraft grade hardware is mass produced. Each piece is not
inspected. Easy for a prop bolt that is not properly heat treated and
produced to slip by. I have gotten bolts without heads, or heads that
were mushroomed rather than hexagonal.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction DriveVamoose' Ex-Reduction Drive |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Lar/All
It isn't all that bad. I flew for four years with a direct drive VW. With a
direct drive engine a MKIII will be a single place airplane and it will
cruise app 10 mph slower but it is real smooth. The problem Lar would have
is that his engine wouldn't make a good direct drive engine and his engine
mount holds the engine in the wrong direction. Direct drive engines need to
have a modified case and crank that allows for a extra large bearing on the
pulley end to handle prop loads.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vamoose' Ex-Reduction DriveVamoose' Ex-Reduction
Drive
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Thanks, Thom. I just wish I had more time to take those pictures. Full
> time would be nice. lol Someday.......??
>
> Me being me, if the plane was flying as a direct drive, procrastination
> would probably delay further work indefinitely. :-) The biggest thing
> against that, tho', is lower performance in an area known for huge density
> altitude compensations, and the Palm Springs area is partly surrounded by
> huge mountains, and the remaining areas are mostly MOA's. Lar.
> Do not Archive.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Building Kolb Mk III
> Vamoose
> www.gogittum.com
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
John, No truer words were ever spoken. It is extreemly distracting. A major flau'
in an otherwise superior product (over standard gauges).
I really thought that I needed "every" avalaible gadget to make flying within my
own abilities better. Not! As I am learning more and getting more comfortable
with looking around, not driving by the gauges, etc. I am begining to see that
some is necessary, more is a nusance, less is better. They were calling me
"Go, Go Gadget", for a while at the hanger!
I deserved it. I am in a hurry to absorb more and more. One doesn't learn to fly
in a hurry unless they are landing for the first time by themselves. Learning
to fly is a lot like trying to understand the Bible. It ain't no "story" book,
its a "lifes operational manual". Flying requires a great deal of patients.
Something I have, in the past had little "time" for. I am learning to relax and
the blinking light in the forgorund only causes me to examine that I am still
within the parameters.
Thanks John.
Ohio Ralph
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
there are also fabulously different flexure modes present in mode blades. There
are several modes where the tips are flexed one way and the span is arched in
the opposite direction. there are others where one tip is aft and the other is
forward, both tips are forward or both aft and on and on and on.
Short: don't make dynamic assumptions based on static observations!
John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
Thats a lot of movement in my humble opinion. Now if that is only at
the ends of the blades (tips), then half way up on each blade half (or
1/3, if three blade) would not flex any where nera that amount.
|
|
| Ohio Ralph
Ralph:
I believe the blades flex most on start up and shut down. Hooking a
strobe light with sensor to your airplane, and shooting it at night
will show you just how much the blades dance.
Early on with my 912 and again on my 912ULS I had blade strikes on
start up, but it took a long time to determine that this was when the
strikes were actually happening. A two inch extension on the 912UL
and a 4 inch extension on the 912ULS took care of that problem.
Coning of the prop can best be demonstrated with the main rotors on a
helicopter. If you get a chance to watch a Flying Crane pick up a
heavy load to a hover, you will see what coning is. That's because he
is maintaining an operational rotor rpm and increasing pitch and
power.
I don't know how much coning effect we get with IVO's or Warp Drive
props in flight. Perhaps Jack Hart has done some extensive
experimentation in that area. I doubt that there is very much based
on prop speed and fixed pitch props. As rpm and airspeed increases,
seems like centrifugal force would reduce coning.
I don't think you can see how much the prop blades flex on start up
and shut down, but when you get a good blade strike, you can feel and
hear it.
Take care,
john h
Dave Downey
in SE PA
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Extensions |
...and I have received mil spec hardware that had no threads.
John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John
Hauck"
| How far
| beyond the propeller manufacturer's limit will you be able to go
before
| there is a failure? Did the bolt pop off at the head, or did it
fail at the
| first thread, or some where in the middle?
|
| Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack:
Probably pull the threads before it breaks.
Aircraft grade hardware is mass produced. Each piece is not
inspected. Easy for a prop bolt that is not properly heat treated and
produced to slip by. I have gotten bolts without heads, or heads that
were mushroomed rather than hexagonal.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Dave Downey
in SE PA
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
Hey Ralph,
I've also heard that the spacer helps make it quiter...
Somethin about getting the prop away from the other surfaces...
I've had people comment on how quite my plane was....They wanted to
know how I did it..... after muffler or intake silentsers....
I don't have any of that stuff .... Just a prop extention...
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN
PS I've been thinkin about one of those "Balancers" that uses Mercury in them...
I've heard their "spendy" but they work good....
Anybody know where I can find them....My wallets just too fat...
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Planecrazzy! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Plaincrazzy,
I had one of the dynamic vibration dampeners on ( ready for this?), a Harley. Didn't
do squat. They will offset and correct for minimal amount of dynamic disturbance,
Ie:pulley balance, transient and transmitted intermittent vibration.
Remember they use a small amount of mercury in a track around the circumference
that is contained within a diameter. In hearing about them, the theory sounds
really great but not worth the money. MHO. Something about equal and opposite
forces canceling out each other. They have to be equal, and you wont feel the
small amount that the mercury offsets. The opposite is somewhat true because
the mercury seeks to go opposite of the heavy side, like a tire balancing weight,
always seeking the opposite at what ever speed.
There used to be a Company in Worthington, Ohio that did industrial dynamic and
static balance monitoring for electric motors, pumps, gear boxes and other rotational
equipment. I had a friend that worked there and their equipment could
see the effects of this type balancing. It was masked, not corrected for.
Perhaps someone has had a different experience than the above. Sometimes when I
have spent good hard earned money to buy a pig in a poke, I wanted so bad for
it to work, that I convinced myself that it did. Even when it didnt!
As they say, its your money.
Ohio Ralph
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Michael, That was profound! I have heard the addage "Always listen to a man of
few words". But really Michael, unlike the great guru that you appear, what was
it you said?
What, slip of the send finger. I've had that before. Talk to me brother.
I wait with baited breath. Here in Ohio as Ralph.
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Extensions (changed the subject line to reflect content |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Yes John, I misstated their (IVO's) information. They did say 'clearance".
Maybe I am making too much of this issue and I apologies for taking it too far.
It just seems to me that if a prop is made to do a job, you really shouldn't
need to somehow offset for their products deficit unless forewarned in advance.
I was always under the impression that on an airplane, two things are at a premium:
weight and space. Both appear to be violated here and someone is getting
arrested immediately! Where are the air police when you need them? Ha, HA!
Ohio Ralph
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Wow that was weird!!!
My statement was that I have an Infinity Stick grip which has a "cooley hat"
switch on top. I wired the EIS buttons to it and with just a flick of the thumb
I can toggle all over the place...
I enjoy seeing the different ways that we figure out how to accomplish the goal.
I also made a snooty remark to Lar that since he has had another mishap I may
still beat him into the air... LOL
Mike
Mark III the real one no X LOL
Suzuki 1.3 4cyl
Ralph Hoover <flht99reh@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover"
Michael, That was profound! I have heard the addage "Always listen to a man of
few words". But really Michael, unlike the great guru that you appear, what was
it you said?
What, slip of the send finger. I've had that before. Talk to me brother.
I wait with baited breath. Here in Ohio as Ralph.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66060#66060
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Steven Green" <Kolbdriver@bellsouth.net>
That light is one of the "shining" features of the EIS. One glance at the
light and you know that no monitored engine parameter has exceeded its
limit. That light will get your attention much quicker than the needle of
one of a half dozen gauges moving a radian or two. And speeking from
experience, that flashing light was the last thing on my mind when the
engine went silent.
Steven Green
EIS with remote mounted switches
> The stick might become a little distracting, in addition to that damn
> flashing light, when you are trying to fly a little airplane,
> especially at the worst possible time when you are at your busiest to
> keep it flying.
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| Subject: | This is your Captain speaking! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Many if not most of you other free spirited drivers will enjoy this sound tape.
Since it is rather small and is sound only, you slow hook-up individuals can
access it also.
Very fitting in the light of all the bad guys with guns and the regular joes unable
to defend themselves.
Packing at our airport here in Ohio, Ralph.
http://www.micom.net/oops/PilotGuns.mp3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph Hoover" <flht99reh@Columbus.rr.com>
Steven Green said: "That light is one of the "shining" features of the EIS. One
glance at the light and you know that no monitored engine parameter has exceeded
its limit. That light will get your attention much quicker than the needle
of one of a half dozen gauges moving a radian or two. And speeking from experience,
that flashing light was the last thing on my mind when the engine went
silent."
Steven Green
EIS with remote mounted switches
And Steven, I have to agree and have both engine and flight "blinking lights".
I presume you were responding to John Hauck's message as follows:
"Ralph:
The stick might become a little distracting, in addition to that damn flashing
light, when you are trying to fly a little airplane, especially at the worst
possible time when you are at your busiest to keep it flying.
IMHO controls, switches, etc., need to be in a place where the hands and/or eyes
can find and operate them naturally without distraction from flying the aircraft.
Take care,
john h"
Therefore, not speaking for John but clarifying my earlier statements regarding
MY instruments NOT the EIS system, which is , as I understand specific to engine
info. You have that ability, not even luxury (read this real close "Stratomaster"):
There isn't any "remote" shut-off available to these glass gauges. Therefore,
one has to douse the light from afar, in a Kolb, adding another "distraction"
to the (as John stated) already stated in his words, while flying the
aircraft.
I will make an attempt to break the contact of the "light bulb", momentarily and
see if that cancels out the continuation of the blinking. If so, I have added
a new dimension to the Stratomaster gauges. If not, They have an issue to correct.
A reason that I may have the blinking, and probably should have been stated before
to alleviate confusion, is because I have settable parameters on ALL information.
Both from the engine and the aircraft. Therefore, a blinking light on
the right on my instrument panel indicates a flight issue while on the left an
engine issue. I have NEVER had a LEFT light blink. The right light may come from:
settable ASI, (to include stall warning as well as approach to VNe) and low
fuel. I have at differing times had the opportunity to see the BLINKING LIGHT
on each issue, including stall, after, or while landing. But again, I say
never on the left light.
And I read what I believe Steven, your conveying in your message, And speeking
from experience, that flashing light was the last thing on my mind when the engine
went silent.
And its because of that and many other things I have read here on the Kolb site,
I love referring back to Possums response to one post. In so many words, This
is flying and dangerous. Without the dangerous, its just another boring body
flexure (my reanimation of what I read from what he wrote). What we do, is so
on the edge in today's world, they couldnt fathom the experience from our perspective.
With that edge comes additional responsibility. I really believe that
becoming comfortable while flying is asking for it. I know I am new to the
flying experience, but I never want the edge to wear down to the point that its
comfortable. I see certain individuals on this site and the work they do now
or have done in their life and I know why they need living on the edge of the
compass of life. John Hauck being one. Possum being another, and others of
you , I know, though you may know that I know.
I know the experience of driving at extreme speeds in a car. What we (all of you
do, but dont realize it) is handle a dragster careening down a narrow track
at 384 miles per hour in 6 seconds! You just have never experienced that dragster.
But you continue to experience the adrenaline that they have for only a few
seconds. Each of you have a gift, a travel, a trip that the world would die
for in their mundainess (Spell). All the money, neat cars trick stuff cant equate
to what we get from flying. Imagine having so much money that you can buy
a Cadillac Escalade Pearlescent white paint pick-up truck with the 500 H.P.
engine and your sitting in bumper to bumper traffic. All your money, all your
power, and you are in LINE!
Here I am with my Twinkie $8,000 aircraft maxing out at 80-85 MPH and going anywhere
I want! How long before they want what we have if the knew what it was and
how enjoyable? Soon, guys. Soon!
Enjoying here in Ohio the flying while I still can, Ralph
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Ralph,
Point?
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
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