Today's Message Index:
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1. 10:07 AM - Have You Tried The New Matronics List Forum? (Matt Dralle)
2. 10:41 AM - Ten Rib FireStar (WhiskeyVictor36@AOL.com)
3. 11:13 AM - Re: Ten Rib FireStar (John Hauck)
4. 02:28 PM - Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar (Arksey@aol.com)
5. 03:02 PM - Re: Ten Rib FireStar (Terry)
6. 05:22 PM - New Kolb owner (jim)
7. 05:44 PM - Re: New Kolb owner (Richard Pike)
8. 06:58 PM - Re: Ten Rib FireStar (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Have You Tried The New Matronics List Forum? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hello Listers,
One of the major new additions to the Matronics Email Lists this year was the addition
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Matt Dralle
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Ten Rib FireStar |
To All Kolbers
You might recall that last spring (03/30/06), my buddy, Alan Mancus, had his
original model Kolb FireStar upset by a sneaky wind, while visiting Massey
Airfield in Maryland. The damage was substantial and at first Alan thought he
would just quit flying. But, apparently, once you taste the joy of flying
in a Kolb, you just can't stop. And so it is with Alan. I volunteered to
help him rebuild it and I'm happy to say it is finally flying again.
It was a lot of work and here is a list of what we did:
One aileron rebuilt. One aileron built new. Rudder rebuilt. One elevator
rebuilt. Vertical stabilator rebuilt. New aluminum angle muffler mounts.
New Fuselage boom tube/and H piece. Both wings got new leading and trailing
spars and a couple of ribs repaired, plus the addition of 5 more ribs making
it a 10 rib wing. Polyfiber process covering and painting on all of those
components.
I had previously built my own Kolb from a kit, so had that experience. But
I must say, in a way, rebuilding is more difficult. Three items of special
note:
1. Drilling out the old rivets. We had the most success by just drilling
off the head, then using a snap (automatic) punch to knock out the mandrel. On
some occasions the rivet wanted to spin and enlarge the hole. On those we
resorted to many different ways to hold it from spinning. The best was to
hold it with pliers if you can reach it from the back side. If that wasn't
possible, then forcing a knife blade under one edge of the head usually stopped
the spinning. Still, we had a few holes go oversize.
2. Match drilling hidden holes. On sheet metal I've used a special rivet
hole finder tool made for that purpose, but on tubing it doesn't work. So, a
lot of time was consumed in measuring once, twice and three times to get the
holes in the right place. Someone on the list had mentioned cutting out the
existing hole layout from the old tube and use it as a pattern for the holes
in the new tube. And this worked well, especially at the tail end of the boom
tube for the rudder/elevator weldment. Might have worked for the H piece at
the fuselage attach point too, but the original H was so really bent and
twisted, he went with new on that.
3.As for the wings, Alan wanted to upgrade from the 5, to the 7 rib style.
But after thinking things through, we opted to go for a 10 rib design. The
reason was twofold. First, if we simply redistributed the existing ribs, it
would leave empty holes in the main spar. Also, I had heard horror stories
about trying to slide the previously riveted ribs off the main spar, causing
scratches. Especially since the rib flanges on Alan's Kolb seemed to fit very
tight. So, instead, we simply removed the 5 false ribs, top and bottom, then
installed 5 new full ribs in their place. In most cases we were able to
utilize the same holes in the main spar as the false ribs did. We cut the rib
flanges, that go onto the main spar, in half, then clam shelled them over the
spar and used some reinforcing plates to hold them together. We had built
our own ribs and did not rivet the top stringer until it was mounted in place
on the spar. This reminds me of another problem that cropped up. Alan had
purchased one factory built rib and made up a jig, then built up the other 9
ribs to match. Unfortunately, the old ribs on his wing were shorter, which we
didn't realize until after mounting the new ones onto the spar, so off they
came for reworking.
I told Alan that we had better get some tie downs. I don't want to go
through that again.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ten Rib FireStar |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
| To All Kolbers
The damage was substantial and at first Alan thought he
| would just quit flying. But, apparently, once you taste the joy of
flying
| in a Kolb, you just can't stop. |
| Bill Varnes
Hi Bill:
Thanks for a very complete report.
Quite an undertaking.
I like the idea you all used for increasing number of wing ribs.
It is easy to slack off on appropriate tie downs until you see and
experience what the wind can do to your own aircraft. Fortunately, or
unfortunately, John W, Gary Haley, Jim Hefner, and I, experienced a
freak wind at Moab, Utah, a couple years ago. We were extremely lucky
that time. Could have been a total disaster for all of us.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar |
Bill ,
your description of the rebuild on Allen's kolb was interesting. Thanks
for posting it...good to hear it is flying...yes important to try and tie down
the best we can....
jim swan firestar ll michigan
soon will be in florida for the winter with the firestar.
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ten Rib FireStar |
WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com wrote:
> To All Kolbers
>
> You might recall that last spring (03/30/06), my buddy, Alan
> Mancus, had his original model Kolb FireStar upset by a sneaky wind,
> while visiting Massey Airfield in Maryland. The damage was
> substantial and at first Alan thought he would just quit flying. But,
> apparently, once you taste the joy of flying in a Kolb, you just can't
> stop. And so it is with Alan. I volunteered to help him rebuild it
> and I'm happy to say it is finally flying again.
>
>
>
Bill,
I'm glad you were able to convince Alan to rebuild. Sounds like you two
did a super job and I look forward to seeing his plane again. I wasn't
aware before this that it happened at Massey Airfield, Willie my friend
who you met at Homer's along with Earl Zimmerman who you also met there,
led me down there to their fly-in this year.
Weather prevented our trip down your way earlier this year. Missed
getting to see you again.
Terry - FireFly #95
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@tru-cast.com>
Sorry for the long story, but I hope some will find it entertaining. It is mostly
included for background and the amusement of others, but I have a few questions
at the end. Thanks in advance.
------------------------------------------
I bought a junker 1983 Quicksilver MX last year and got it flying this Spring.
I flew it about 35 hours and really enjoyed it but was soon longing for something
faster, more stable in turbulence (higher wing loading), and something I
could take somewhere. A friend told me about the Firefly, I did some research,
and met a guy with one at an EAA flyin. When I saw it and saw it fly, I was
SOLD.
I sold my Quicksilver MX and looked around but didn't see many Fireflies for sale.
There was a nice one down in TX, but I didn't want to drive 44 hours each
way to get it. I found one in San Diego area that sounded good on paper: Factory
built (including covering) in 1993, Rotax 503 DCDI, 3-blade ground adjustable
IVO prop, 4.5 hours TT airframe & engine, including 1 hour Rotax engine
breaking. Full instruments, and enclosed Aluminum trailer for $8000. He told
me about a scarf patch on the tail boom and a couple wing patches but he made
them sound insignificant.
Unfortunately I was a bit too excited and bought it after little conversation,
sight unseen. My wife and I made the 26 hour drive from North Idaho and when
I saw it I was a bit disappointed in its condition. I should have renegotiated
the price down some, but didn't. The prop had been cut down to 52" and the pitch
cranked up all the way. The trailer was home made and kind of funky. He
had painted it himself and it looked it. He had mounted the engine; it wasn't
unsafe, but it could have been better.
At 1 am and 500 miles into the 1500 mile trip home during thunderstorms, wind,
and rain, the right wheel fell off of the trailer. At first I thought the axle
broke, but it didn't. He had recently put on new tires and just hadn't tightned
the lugs down. Before I drove away from his house I considered checking
them, but I have never seen loose lugs before -- usually lugs are put on too tight
rather than too lose. Apparently the wheel worked itself loose and ended
up pulling off through 3 of the 5 lug nuts. I couldn't get the nuts off the
remaining 3 studs, nor did I ever find the tire or wheel. Fortuntely we were
only about 6 miles from the nearest town (it could easily have been 30 miles in
that area). We got some sleep and with a few parts, grinding, and welding from
local stores, we were back on our way 12 hours later.
After I got home I cleaned up the trailer and while still funky, does do the job
fairly well. I also washed the Firefly. Washing something is a good way to
find all the fabric and other damage. While there were probably 5 polyfiber
repairs and it needs 2 more, all are small and only of cosmetic concern.
I looked at the prop some more and realize that the previous owner really screwed
up a nice prop by cutting it down to 52". Even so, the prop was 4.5" above
the boom. It appears he did not know the Rotax B gearbox could be rotated up
because he had it down and the whole engine shimmed up 1" with Aluminum shims.
Even though his plate was drilled for it, he did not use Lord mounts to mount
the engine, and the aluminum plate was bolted to the cage, not the engine block.
The logbook for the engine showed 5.5 hours of run time, but it appears all entries
were filled out with the same pen on the same day. Logbook entries are dated
1997-2004 or 2005.
He obviously had problems starting the engine because it came with a can of ether.
He had a choke control and primer system with it. The choke cables were
so lose as to be totally innefective. He had a quality GA grade Essex primer
on it, but the hoses were crumbling apart.
I replaced some of the fuel line and sealed off the primer lines until I could
get the right hose and fittings for it. I also cleaned out the fuel tank and
carbs. I flew it twice pretty much as is, but only about 10-20 minutes and 2
landings both times.
The FF always took lots of right aileron to hold the wings level. Clean power off
stall was 40mph IAS on the 0-160mph gage. This seems fast considering I was
expecting closer to 30mph. Clean p/o stall with full flaps was maybe 2mph less.
I tried high cruise (WOT=6000 rpm) but it took almost full forward stick
and it still wanted to climb. It also took lots of right stick. Even though
my right arm got tired of holding right stick, there was still plenty of right
stick available, but it took both arms to do it.
For the 3rd flight I fixed the choke and adjusted the ailerons (this time in the
right direction). Aileron forces are MUCH better, but still requires some right
stick, especially at high cruise. I did 2 landings on each flight, the first
pretty good, the second perfect. I decided to see what kind of power off
glide ratio the Kolb Firefly has. At the 180 I pulled power. I thought I was
going to be too high but with the wind down the runway and the surprisingly
poor L/D glide radio of the FF, I thought I would just make the numbers. On short
final (
--------
Jim
N. Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72174#72174
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New Kolb owner |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard@bcchapel.org>
Graet post! Now for your questions -
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim" <jim@tru-cast.com>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 8:22 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: New Kolb owner
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@tru-cast.com>
QUESTIONS
1. Does everybody have their Rotax gearbox in the "UP" position?
Ans. - Yes.
I am concerned that the Firefly may be aerodynamically designed to have the
gearbox up. This would raise the thrust line and reduce the excessive
forward stick needed for high-speed cruise.
Ans. - Yes. And after you turn the gearbox over, if it still wnats to nose
up, droop the ailerons a bit and see if that doesn't help. You will probably
need a trim tab on the right aileron, hanging down a bit. That will relieve
the right stick pressure.
Or is it good to have the prop as low as possible.
Ans. - No, it is designed to have the gearbox up.
2. Engine mount location
The previous owner installed the Rotax 503 with the aft end of the engine
block (not the PTO) flush with the back end of the mounting plate and Lord
mount holes. The B gearbox is 2" aft of the plate, and sticks down below it.
I wonder if this causes an aft CG condition that is the primary reason for
the excessive forward stick needed at high cruise.
Ans. - Probably not, he probably did it just to have the box clear the
frame.
He may have done this because he does not have the 2.5" Ivo prop spacer I
have seen on other Fireflies with the Rotax. If I install the standard Lord
mounts, it may move the engine forward to where I will have to buy a spacer.
Ans. - It depends. Maybe. A spacer will make your airplane quieter, you may
not care about that. If you buy a new prop and it can be made to flex
anywhere close to any part of your airframe, buy a spacer.
3. Weight/CG
The previous owner did a weight and balance on the FF. It is 70# over the
part 103 weight, but it showed as within CG (I don't remember exactly where
it was). There is no BRS or unusual accessories on the aircraft so I am
surprised it is so far overweight. It has the short windshield, 4" wheels,
drum brakes, and oil injection. The 503 only explains an extra 20# over a
447; the brakes, 3-bladed prop, and instruments maybe another 20#. Is 320#
excessive? What is the average weight on the tailwheel for a Firefly? What
is the average weight of a "real" Firefly?
Ans. - I'm not qualified to answer, don't have a FF.
4. Does anybody use a short prop?
Ans - Not if they can help it.
I hate to fork out $500 for a new IVO 62" 3-bladed prop if I can make the
one I have work. It is cranked up to max pitch (I believe) and turns 6000
rpm static AND in flight. Until I bent the gear, my plan was to reduce pitch
until max rpm is 6400-6500 rpm. Then I would measure rate of climb and try
to get a feel for the performance. Currently, takeoff and initial climb seem
OK, but it seems to drop to 500-600 fpm after 500'. I think I should see
1000+ fpm ROC. If I can get to that, I will probably keep the prop I have.
But with I 503dcdi on a Firefly, I expect spectacular performance. It's been
OK, but certainly not spectacular.
Ans. - Don't buy a 3 bladed 62" Ivo, buy a two bladed 64" Ivo. It will work
better and save you $100.
Thanks,Jim
-You're welcome. Enjoy your 'Fly
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldpoops)
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ten Rib FireStar |
In a message dated 11/3/2006 6:02:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tkrolfe@usadatanet.net writes:
Willie my friend who you met at Homer's along with Earl Zimmerman who you
also met there, led me down there to their fly-in this year.
Hi Terry,
Good to hear from you. Is Willie the Candy Man? If so, then I know who he
is. And I know who Earl is.
Massey Airfield has an 'Open Hangar Day' scheduled for Sunday, December 3,
2006. From 1:00 to 5:00 PM.
If the weather is good, maybe I'll go. But I cannot stand the cold anymore.
Too soon oldt, too late smart.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
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