Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:13 AM - Re: 2007 Monument Valley? (WillUribe@aol.com)
2. 02:27 PM - Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
3. 02:42 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (Richard Pike)
4. 02:47 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (Bob Noyer)
5. 02:56 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (David Lehman)
6. 03:02 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (David Key)
7. 03:21 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (Eugene Zimmerman)
8. 06:25 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (chris davis)
9. 06:28 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (chris davis)
10. 06:28 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
11. 06:32 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (chris davis)
12. 07:14 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (David Key)
13. 07:19 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (Richard Pike)
14. 07:36 PM - Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) (Roger Lee)
15. 08:08 PM - Re: Fw: New Kolb owner (DAquaNut@aol.com)
16. 10:24 PM - Re: New Kolb owner (The BaronVonEvil)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 2007 Monument Valley? |
Dave Rains said he wants to work with AzDave to setup a Young Eagles event
for the Navajo children during the Monument Valley fly-in. EAA member pilots
will be needed to fly the Young Eagles.
_Young Eagle Pilot Guidelines_
(http://www.youngeagles.org/volunteers/resources/content/YE%20Resource%20-%20EAA%20Young%20Eagle%20Pilot%20Guidelines.pdf)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave & Eve Pelletier
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2007 Monument Valley?
<pelletier@cableone.net>
> If folks show up we will have a MV Flyin.
>
> Last year we did it on the third weekend of May. That worked out
> good, one week after Mother's Day and week prior to Memorial Day. We
> usually have good weather during that time frame.
>
> I propose we do it the same weekend and I plan to be there.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
Sounds good to me. MAN LAW???
AzDave
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 2
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| Subject: | Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE
Does anyone know the glide ratio of the Mark-3 Classic?
I'm asked this question often by fellow pilots, about my Kolb.
Though I do not know the answer, I know they are wanting to compare our
"very light" planes to their GA mounts (Cessnas and Pipers), which
generally have glide ratios that fall between 7:1 and 9:1.
My Mark-III, with approximately the same wing area as a Cessna-172, yet
operating at about a third the weight, MUST have a better glide ratio
than the Spam cans, right?
Dennis Kirby
New Mexico
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
Glide ratio is not always what you might expect. Perhaps you remember the
DC-9 crash at New Hope, Ga. about 25 years ago, it went through a hail storm
and flamed out, crashed on a dirt road and hit a gas station. Very Bad
Scene.
A couple weeks later, was talking to a DC-9 driver for Southern, (I was a
controller at Albany Tower at the time) and asked what the best glide ratio
of a DC-9 was. He said that had never come up, but after the New Hope
disaster, maybe it would be good to know. He called me back when he was
about 90 miles south of Atlanta and said it was 20:1, at 250 knots. Probably
more than twice as good as a MKIII...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:27 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)
> <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> Does anyone know the glide ratio of the Mark-3 Classic?
>
> I'm asked this question often by fellow pilots, about my Kolb.
>
> Though I do not know the answer, I know they are wanting to compare our
> "very light" planes to their GA mounts (Cessnas and Pipers), which
> generally have glide ratios that fall between 7:1 and 9:1.
>
> My Mark-III, with approximately the same wing area as a Cessna-172, yet
> operating at about a third the weight, MUST have a better glide ratio
> than the Spam cans, right?
>
> Dennis Kirby
> New Mexico
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
So the spamcans have a great glide ratio...ask them, with all the
gliding distance, how small a patch can they get into, and back outa of?
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
You're correct Reverend, it's called inertia...
DVD
do not archive
On 11/7/06, Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org> wrote:
>
>
> Glide ratio is not always what you might expect. Perhaps you remember the
> DC-9 crash at New Hope, Ga. about 25 years ago, it went through a hail
> storm
> and flamed out, crashed on a dirt road and hit a gas station. Very Bad
> Scene.
> A couple weeks later, was talking to a DC-9 driver for Southern, (I was a
> controller at Albany Tower at the time) and asked what the best glide
> ratio
> of a DC-9 was. He said that had never come up, but after the New Hope
> disaster, maybe it would be good to know. He called me back when he was
> about 90 miles south of Atlanta and said it was 20:1, at 250 knots.
> Probably
> more than twice as good as a MKIII...
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> do not archive
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
Dennis, I'd bet on the Spam Cans.
>From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)
>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:27:02 -0700
>
><Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
>Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>Caveats: NONE
>
>Does anyone know the glide ratio of the Mark-3 Classic?
>
>I'm asked this question often by fellow pilots, about my Kolb.
>
>Though I do not know the answer, I know they are wanting to compare our
>"very light" planes to their GA mounts (Cessnas and Pipers), which
>generally have glide ratios that fall between 7:1 and 9:1.
>
>My Mark-III, with approximately the same wing area as a Cessna-172, yet
>operating at about a third the weight, MUST have a better glide ratio
>than the Spam cans, right?
>
>Dennis Kirby
>New Mexico
>Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>Caveats: NONE
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
On Nov 7, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL wrote:
> My Mark-III, with approximately the same wing area as a Cessna-172,
> yet
> operating at about a third the weight, MUST have a better glide ratio
> than the Spam cans, right?
Not really.
Spam cans are much cleaner aerodynamically than our Kolb planes are.
Sink rate may be somewhat better in a Kolb due to lighter weight
but not glide ratio.
At gross weight a two place Kolb will have a glide ratio slightly
better than a brick. < g >
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
HeyKolbers ever had an engine out?I built a 1990 KXP with a 503 flew it for 10
years and had two engine outs, fortunately both in the pattern she glided wonderfully
I wished I had dive brakes so I could get her down she floated nearly
the lengh of the 1500 ft field but a mk III AT gross weight I saw one come
down and all it did was wipe out its gear but Norm and I came down fast and hard
hes dead,.Im building a . rest his soul and when I get out of my wheel chair
I'm going to build a XENOS motorglider 24to 1 and a cruise speed of 120 knots.I'm
building a hanger shop this winter,in my wheelchair and my deposit to SONEX
it soon on its way! Don't get me wrong I still love KOLBS and you guys but
that glide ratio Question just got me started ,sorry oh by the way I have a
private glider license and had to learn alot about glide ratio to get it ,Chris
Davis
David Lehman <david@davidlehman.net> wrote: You're correct Reverend, it's called
inertia...
DVD
do not archive
Glide ratio is not always what you might expect. Perhaps you remember the
DC-9 crash at New Hope, Ga. about 25 years ago, it went through a hail storm
and flamed out, crashed on a dirt road and hit a gas station. Very Bad
Scene.
A couple weeks later, was talking to a DC-9 driver for Southern, (I was a
controller at Albany Tower at the time) and asked what the best glide ratio
of a DC-9 was. He said that had never come up, but after the New Hope
disaster, maybe it would be good to know. He called me back when he was
about 90 miles south of Atlanta and said it was 20:1, at 250 knots. Probably
more than twice as good as a MKIII...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
HeyKolbers ever had an engine out?I built a 1990 KXP with a 503 flew it for 10
years and had two engine outs, fortunately both in the pattern she glided wonderfully
I wished I had dive brakes so I could get her down she floated nearly
the lengh of the 1500 ft field but a mk III AT gross weight I saw one come
down and all it did was wipe out its gear but Norm and I came down fast and hard
hes dead,.Im building a . rest his soul and when I get out of my wheel chair
I'm going to build a XENOS motorglider 24to 1 and a cruise speed of 120 knots.I'm
building a hanger shop this winter,in my wheelchair and my deposit to SONEX
it soon on its way! Don't get me wrong I still love KOLBS and you guys but
that glide ratio Question just got me started ,sorry oh by the way I have a
private glider license and had to learn alot about glide ratio to get it ,Chris
Davis
David Lehman <david@davidlehman.net> wrote: You're correct Reverend, it's called
inertia...
DVD
do not archive
Glide ratio is not always what you might expect. Perhaps you remember the
DC-9 crash at New Hope, Ga. about 25 years ago, it went through a hail storm
and flamed out, crashed on a dirt road and hit a gas station. Very Bad
Scene.
A couple weeks later, was talking to a DC-9 driver for Southern, (I was a
controller at Albany Tower at the time) and asked what the best glide ratio
of a DC-9 was. He said that had never come up, but after the New Hope
disaster, maybe it would be good to know. He called me back when he was
about 90 miles south of Atlanta and said it was 20:1, at 250 knots. Probably
more than twice as good as a MKIII...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
---------------------------------
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
The next time I go flying I will test your theory of the Brick glide ratio I
will unload it at 1000 ft AGL and turn off my engine at the same time and see
if the brick makes it to the airport, I have a good idea it will not meet me
at the airport.
I have done a bunch of dead stick landings on purpose and you are correct
the sink rate will overcome your distance to the strip pretty quick so be sure
to test your Glide Ratio before you really need it in a off field landing
Ellery
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
Hey Kolbers ever had an engine out?I built a 1990 KXP with a 503 flew it for 10
years and had two engine outs, fortunately both in the pattern she glided wonderfully
I wished I had dive brakes so I could get her down she floated nearly
the lengh of the 1500 ft field but a mk III AT gross weight I saw one come
down and all it did was wipe out its gear but Norm and I came down fast and hard
hes dead,.Im building a . rest his soul and when I get out of my wheel chair
I'm going to build a XENOS motorglider 24to 1 and a cruise speed of 120 knots.I'm
building a hanger shop this winter,in my wheelchair and my deposit to
SONEX it soon on its way! Don't get me wrong I still love KOLBS and you guys
but that glide ratio Question just got me started ,sorry oh by the way I have
a private glider license and had to learn alot about glide raatio to get it .
Chris Davis
---------------------------------
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than one year.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
Chris,
I had an engine off landing with a passenger in a Mark III, the landing was
smooth as silk. No need to bend anything. The stall speed is the same with
or without the engine running. I was at 5k and I was glad I was high and
over my airport.
I haven't yet figured out how to land my xtra smooth as silk.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
Several years ago, middle of summer, I put on my leather jacket, the
MKIII had the 1/2 doors on it, and I took off and started climbing.
Twenty five minutes later, I was over a little country airport at 10,000
feet. Throttled back, let it idle for a second, and shut it off. Glided
all the way down and landed deadstick. On the way down, I played. Fast,
slow, wingovers, turns, took the headset off so I could just listen to
the air slide by. It was really nice. I need to do it again.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: ElleryWeld@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)
The next time I go flying I will test your theory of the Brick glide
ratio I will unload it at 1000 ft AGL and turn off my engine at the same
time and see if the brick makes it to the airport, I have a good idea it
will not meet me at the airport.
I have done a bunch of dead stick landings on purpose and you are
correct the sink rate will overcome your distance to the strip pretty
quick so be sure to test your Glide Ratio before you really need it in a
off field landing
Ellery
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED) |
Hi Guys,
I shut my engine down on a regular basis to practice engine off landings. Sometimes
at 500' and sometimes at 5k'. I have a Kolb Mark III classic. I only have
other aircraft that I have flown over the years to compare with, but I would
say the glide ratio is only about 5 or 6 to 1. The Kolb is definety not a long
glider.
Engine off landings are a piece of cake. It's just like landing with the engine,
but you only get one shot and no high flares.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72965#72965
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: New Kolb owner |
In a message dated 11/4/2006 11:42:53 A.M. Central Standard Time,
beauford@tampabay.rr.com writes:
You mentioned props... the stock Firefly prop size in an IVO 2 blade was
66 inches on the 447 ... gave a little over an inch clearance on the
boom... gearbox up.
Good luck, Sir... Be advised that my advice is worth what ye paid fer it....
Beauford, the Aluminum Butcher of Brandon FL
FF #076
Hi Bill,
Haven't seen You post on the list in a while! Guess you've been busy!
I am puzzled how you got over an inch clearance with your 66" Ivo. I
have close to 3/4' clearance , but would feel a lot better if I had over an
inch!
Ed Diebel FF # 062
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: New Kolb owner |
Hi Jim,
I live here in Walla Walla WA and fly a Kolb Firestar II. What part of N. Idaho
do you call home? I am not aware of many Kolb flyers in the area and would
be happy to meet with you and help in any way I can. You are welcome to come
by and check mine out if you like to try and answer any questions you might have.
My Firestar has a Rotax 447 with the 2.58 to 1 B gearbox upright. I believe this
is how they are meant to set up. It came with a 66"'x 30p Tennessee prop and
flew well. I have since changed to a powerfin 62" composite two blade prop and
gained a smoother and slightly better performance.
I believe you will end up changing out the prop on your 503 due to it being undersize
for your engine. I would seriously consider remounting the engine onto
Lord mounts to prevent damage to your airframe before flying it further. The
Lord mounts will also raise the engine about .75" which will help with the prop
clearance over the tail boom
A larger prop will definitely improve your climb rate over the cut down prop you
have now.
On mine at least I have about 2.75" of clearance between the propellor tips and
the aileron tubes. With the IVO's I think the prop needs about 3" of clearance
due to the blade flexing.
I would also as a precaution do a compression test of your engine and make sure
it is up to snuff. Starting fluid is BAD NEWS to 2 cycle high performance engines.
If the engine doesnt start easily you are either doing something wrong
or the engine is out of adjustment somehow.
Most important is to run fresh fuel through your engine. Old fuel is almost as
bad as starting fluid.
You should do a weight and balance of the Firefly yourself to verify what the paper
work is saying. It sounds a wee bit phat but you havent mentioned if you
have electric starting or how much other stuff is actually on the plane. All
those little accessories that people add to their planes can add lots of weight
in a hurry.
I hope this helps out. Feel free to email me if you have any questions or maybe
want to get together sometime.
Best Regards 8)
Carlos Grageda
AKA
The BaronVonEvil
grageda@innw.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72982#72982
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