---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/03/06: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:37 AM - Re: Re:The pro &con of D.T. D, was dool L E vador K bull (Eugene Zimmerman) 2. 06:30 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (planecrazzzy) 3. 06:38 AM - cooling (robert bean) 4. 07:15 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Jack B. Hart) 5. 08:35 AM - Re: cooling (Jack B. Hart) 6. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: cooling (Jim Baker) 7. 11:01 AM - Re: carburetor ice question (hillstw) 8. 11:58 AM - MV (pat ladd) 9. 12:13 PM - Re: Dual Elevator Cables (pat ladd) 10. 01:54 PM - Re: MV (Larry Bourne) 11. 01:56 PM - Re: Dual Elevator Cables (Larry Bourne) 12. 02:54 PM - Re: MV mothers' day (Bob Noyer) 13. 03:10 PM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Richard Girard) 14. 03:22 PM - Re: Dual Elevator Cables (pat ladd) 15. 03:29 PM - Re: MV (pat ladd) 16. 03:33 PM - Re: MV (George Thompson) 17. 03:48 PM - Re: Dual Elevator Cables (pat ladd) 18. 05:13 PM - Re: Dual Elevator Cables (Dana Hague) 19. 06:30 PM - Re: MV (Larry Cottrell) 20. 06:59 PM - Re: Aileron Hinges (grabo172) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:21 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re:The pro &con of D.T. D, was dool L E vador K bull Very Good Bob! That aughta put a nice clevis on the K-bull hawser. Gene On Dec 2, 2006, at 10:36 PM, Bob Noyer wrote: > > Well, E-gene, this thread, DWT, previously that turned into a > towing hawser, has had several lives on at least two UL listservs. > A short while ago I thought surely we were almost about to dig up > The Dreaded Downwind Turn, but perhaps fortunately, many of the Old > Hands either didn't take up the cudgel, or were too disenchanted by > the wounds visited upon then in The Old Days. > > Basically, there are two camps, both seemingly correct, and both > with equal vociferosity. In a nut shell, one faction believes that > in a Down Wind Turn you will most certainly Fall Outa The Sky if > your airspeed is at or very near to stalling. The other POH- > thumpers merely say Hog Wash, often declaiming The Moving Airmass > Dogma, aka "boat in moving water" doctrine. > > Personally, I "learned" to fly before I'd ever heard of this > Dreaded Phantasmagoria, and consequently flew with the What You > Don't Know Won't Hurt You philosophy. But here's a way out of doing > the Downwind Turn, patterned after J.Edgar Hoover's dictum of No > Left Turns after his driver made a left turn and had an > accident...just make a straight in, or at worst, enter from base leg. > > regards, > Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb > http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:32 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aileron Hinges From: "planecrazzzy" I built my Firestar II aileron hinge area stock..... But when I folded it up like the plans say , it was just too tight and if you trailer it like that , your gonna get some BAD hanger rash.... So instead , I made a simple bracket to slip into the aileron counter balance tubes , and it holds the ailerons straight up , no rubbing... Also, I put a bungie cord between it and the tailwheel to keep it secure. Here's a picture or two... Gotta Fly... Mike in MN -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78799#78799 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_support_147.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_support_tube_941.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:12 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: cooling Although aimed at rotary engines, this is a very comprehensive (and lengthy) report on cooling: http://www.rotaryeng.net/how-to-cool12.html I have a couple of hose connections that will get beading this winter. BB ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:57 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aileron Hinges At 05:39 PM 12/2/06 -0800, you wrote: > ......................................> >Secondly, do you think that may be why I've had to replace a bunch of rivets already (I've had the plane for 4 months and have replaced about 15 or so of the hinge rivets) > Erik, If aileron hinge rivets are coming loose, it would seem that it could be caused by poor hinge alignment. This can be verified by removing the pin from the push rod clevis and rotating the aileron by hand. If it is badly misaligned the hinges will squawk. If only one hinge rivet set is becoming loose that is a hint that, that hinge is out of alignment. This can be verified by pulling the hinge pin and check to see how the two halves line up to each other as the aileron is rotated. For what it is worth. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:58 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: cooling From: robert bean Although aimed at rotary engines, this is a very comprehensive (and lengthy) report on cooling: http://www.rotaryeng.net/how-to-cool12.html ....................................................... Bob, It looks like I am using the wrong approach. Thanks. As I am running the Victor 1+ with a small radiator, I have looked into different coolants. I tried out water, water with WaterWetter, and 50/50 water/glycol and a product called "Engine Ice". WaterWetter was purchased from AutoZone and the Engine Ice I found on the web. The results from initial testing this summer gave the following: WaterWetter and H20 <-BEST H2O Engine Ice and WaterWetter Engine Ice Half H2O and Glycol <-WORST WaterWetter when added to water lowers water surface tension. If you have ever watched water start to boil in a pan on the stove you may have noticed that little bubbles filled with steam begin to form and remain attached to the pan bottom. As the water continues to heat the bubbles break loose and float to the surface. These bubbles attached to the heated surface actually reduce heat flow to the water. By reducing the water surface tension, the bubbles break away from the metal surface earlier in their formation allowing liquid water to re-attach to the surface and improves heat flow. WaterWetter is not an anti-freeze solution, but Engine Ice is. Engine Ice is expensive, and it is claimed that it will lower coolant temperatures by 50 degrees. I did not find this to be true. Now that cooler air temperatures are here, I do not see that much improvement over glycol/water solution. Next Spring after the date for last frost, I will go back to WaterWetter and distilled water. I left the Engine Ice in for this winter and I expected it to be much better in the cooler air, but this does not seem to be the case. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:59 AM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: cooling X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) > By reducing the water surface tension, the > bubbles break away from the metal surface earlier in their formation > allowing liquid water to re-attach to the surface and improves heat flow. If you're running a pressure coolant system that gets hot enough to form bubbles in operation........ Jim Baker 580.788.2779 Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:26 AM PST US From: "hillstw" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: carburetor ice question Jim: What is the sport category expo? When is it? I am not familar with it. No doubt your weather is nicer than our just now. We have had a real big winter storm; snow is melting off now, but will take a while, as we had about a foot. Regards. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: Arksey@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: carburetor ice question Hi Jimmy, Yes we got to Florida Wed. evening before Thanksgiving, hauled the Firestar down here in a enclosed trailer. hauled it with my olds van, worked ok. The trailer was built for a firestar but with a 2 blade prop so i had to remove the 3 blade prop to get it in the trailer....trailer worked fine and pulled good, but when i hit uneven pavement it would rock back and forth like a baby buggy....I intend to put shocks on it to stop that action...It was a bit of work to haul but if the flying down here this winter is enjoyable I will do it again... Regard the carburetor ice, I am sure that is what the problem was and I intend to look into carb heat, it was ideal conditions for it and as I fly whenever i can I guess i better have carb heat to take care of it....I would not like to be over hostile country and have that happen. I sure have had fun flying the plane this last summer and am very happy with it. I am near Sebring Florida and you should think about coming down for the sport category exp at the sebring airport the 1st part of Jan. and I will show you around the area and for sure try and make Sun and Fun...I hope to be there with the plane and camp in the ultra light section... I will be back to flying down here in a week or so...been fishing some already. Jim Swan Firestar ll Michigan do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:10 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Kolb-List: MV Hi All, can anyone comfirm the dates for Monument Valley next May please. Its no good saying Labor Day or whatever we don`t celebrate that. Also, what is the hotel which is close by. Can find nothing specific among the reams of stuff on the net. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:30 PM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dual Elevator Cables Hi Lar, I had a mate, now dead, unfortunately, who was a gunner in a Halifax. He told me that his skipper always rounded out on the trim. Not quuite pattern and approach I agree but pretty neat. Thanks for the pics. we may use your hotel if we make it to MV next year Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:02 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV Hi Pat: The hotel is Goulding's, and the date is the weekend after Mother's Day.......tho' I can't help on the date. It won't be the same without Dave and Eve there. I hope the ol' Bald Eagle joins us tho'. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Santa Fe, NM www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: pat ladd To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: Kolb-List: MV Hi All, can anyone comfirm the dates for Monument Valley next May please. Its no good saying Labor Day or whatever we don`t celebrate that. Also, what is the hotel which is close by. Can find nothing specific among the reams of stuff on the net. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:46 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dual Elevator Cables It's a fair hike from La Posada de Santa Fe to MV, (about 400 miles) but if you stop here en route, I'll scramble to play tour guide for you......and for any other Kolb'ers who may stop by at any time. I've got a few picture stories put together on my activities to and around Santa Fe, so anyone who's interested, let me know and I'll send 'em on to you. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Santa Fe, NM www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: pat ladd To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dual Elevator Cables Hi Lar, I had a mate, now dead, unfortunately, who was a gunner in a Halifax. He told me that his skipper always rounded out on the trim. Not quuite pattern and approach I agree but pretty neat. Thanks for the pics. we may use your hotel if we make it to MV next year Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:09 PM PST US From: Bob Noyer Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV mothers' day In US, at least my part, Mothers' Day is celebrated 5/13, a Sunday. regards, Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:12 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aileron Hinges Erik, You didn't say how you determined the rivets needed to be replaced, and whether you replaced them with the same size rivet or went oversize. There's a condition called "smoking rivets" in which the rivets begin to move in the holes creating an aluminum oxide dust ring around the head of the rivet. If you see evidence the rivets are smoking, going oversize to 5/32 is probably your only option to get a true fix to the problem. Rick On 12/3/06, Jack B. Hart wrote: > > > At 05:39 PM 12/2/06 -0800, you wrote: > > > ......................................> > >Secondly, do you think that may be why I've had to replace a bunch of > rivets already (I've had the plane for 4 months and have replaced about 15 > or so of the hinge rivets) > > > > Erik, > > If aileron hinge rivets are coming loose, it would seem that it could be > caused by poor hinge alignment. This can be verified by removing the pin > from the push rod clevis and rotating the aileron by hand. If it is badly > misaligned the hinges will squawk. If only one hinge rivet set is > becoming > loose that is a hint that, that hinge is out of alignment. This can be > verified by pulling the hinge pin and check to see how the two halves line > up to each other as the aileron is rotated. > > For what it is worth. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:59 PM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dual Elevator Cables Hi Ed, sorry if I have inadverdently trodden on your toes.. I think maybe you came into this thread partway through as you seem to have missed the previous posts to which I was replying. I was certainly not denigrating Kolbs. I have one, and I agree with you that it is well designed, except for the flap handle, and very strong. I shall NOT be fitting dual cables. I was merely continuing a discussion about the differing approaches to legislation in the US and the UK. The comment about the length of time that was apparently going to be taken in investigating Daves sad accident did not suggest for a moment that we don`t have accidents in greater or lesser numbers than you but merely making the point that if an accident(any accident) occurs then the cause needs to be determined as quickly as possible. If the tail falls off a Rans at 1000 hours and I have 950 hours on mine I would like to know NOW if it is a generic flaw or if the pilot sawed through half the longerons to install an extra fuel tank. Not in six months time when someone has finally got round to it. Another lister was applauding the fact that in the US you could `do pretty much as you liked`. In fact I think that his words were "you could carve a plane out of cheese and provided the C of G was in the right place it would pass". Apologies if I have misquoted but those were the general sentiments. I was merely commenting. If it is not true dont blame me. I agree, (we seem to agree about everything Ed, whats the argument?) that regs don`t make an aircraft safe. Design does. But what except regs ensures that a builder follows the design? Also, would you be happy that any designer could market a plane without it being checked by an outside source.? You couldn`t do that here. In the States you seem to be in the position that you can change much more in the design without permission than we are in the UK. Is that good or bad? I don`t know. I would like to be able to change a prop. or an engine or fiddle with the dihedral or extend the undercarriage legs without getting approval but I have no expertise and the fact that I am willig to take a chance on killing myself should not entitle me to hazard some innocent bystander. We are working slowly towards your approach and I suspect that in time we shall arrive at some middle point. Incidentally I have had carb icing , twice. Each time it was cleared by opening the throttle. I didn`t just make up the idea. I read it in a book. I am sorry if you find any of this an attack un the US or on Kolb. Put it down to cabin fever. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:59 PM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV the date is the weekend after Mother's Day...>> Crikey Lar, cant you put some numbers on that? We do have Mothers day, I think,probably not the same as you, and I am almost sure we have Fathers Day. When the Card Manufacturers and the flower growers get around to it we shall no doubt have Nephew and Nieces day and Cousins Day, Pumpkin Pie day....... Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:57 PM PST US From: "George Thompson" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV I am still thinking about it. For sure it wouldn't be the same without Dave and Eve. At the present I am thinking now that I should come up to explain to everyone what we think must have happened. Az Bald Eagle ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Bourne To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV Hi Pat: The hotel is Goulding's, and the date is the weekend after Mother's Day.......tho' I can't help on the date. It won't be the same without Dave and Eve there. I hope the ol' Bald Eagle joins us tho'. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Santa Fe, NM www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: pat ladd To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: Kolb-List: MV Hi All, can anyone comfirm the dates for Monument Valley next May please. Its no good saying Labor Day or whatever we don`t celebrate that. Also, what is the hotel which is close by. Can find nothing specific among the reams of stuff on the net. Cheers Pat href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/2/2006 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:12 PM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dual Elevator Cables Did over regulation, on your side of the pond, prevent further "bad accidents"?>> Good question John. I don`t know. On balance I think it probably did. It may well have stultified some exciting new developments too. Thats the trade off. The main thing that happened was that the series of accidents put the whole sport in jeopardy. Committees were formed etc., and we were lucky enough that Anne Welch who had cut her teeth on the Gliding movement and was Sec of the BGA for years took an interest and was able to lay down enough guidelines that the government handed over regulation to the new committee instead of running it directly themselves. Therefore we enjoy pretty much the status of the Gliding Assoc, and regulate, inspect, instruct etc., ourselves without too much outside interference. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:36 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dual Elevator Cables At 06:21 PM 12/3/2006, pat ladd wrote: >In the States you seem to be in the position that you can change much more >in the design without permission than we are in the UK. Is that good or >bad? I don`t know. I would like to be able to change a prop. or an engine >or fiddle with the dihedral or extend the undercarriage legs without >getting approval but I have no expertise and the fact that I am willig to >take a chance on killing myself should not entitle me to hazard some >innocent bystander. We are working slowly towards your approach and I >suspect that in time we shall arrive at some middle point. Pat, there are two sets of regs here. If it's two seats, or over 254 lbs, factory built you can't change much; homebuilt, you have to register it as experimental and go through inspections, test flying in a restricted area, etc. You can change pretty much anything when you build it but you still have to get it approved for flight. If it's under 254 lbs and single seat (i.e. ultralight), you can do virtually anything... but the ultralight regs prohibit you from flying, at ANY altitude, over any congested area or open air assembly of persons. So our regs DO protect the innocent bystander either way, but you're free to kill yourself flying solo. -Dana -- -- For every new foolproof invention there is a new and improved fool. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:46 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV The weekend after is the 19th and 20th. I think this is the normal "regular" weekend. Larry,Oregon ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:39 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aileron Hinges From: "grabo172" jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote: > Erik, You didn't say how you determined the rivets needed to be replaced, and whether you replaced them with the same size rivet or went oversize. The heads were just a bit pulled out from the hinge, not flush... Not smoking at all thank goodness. I just drilled them out and replaced them with 1/8x 1/4 steel rivets. The ones I took out were 1/8 x 1/8. But the manual said that the larger grip is ok if needed. But of course I'm going to drill them all out anyway and replace the hinges. Better safe than sorry. On another note.. I passed my Light Sport Repairman - Inspector class today so I can legally sign off my own annual condition inspection... So I have to replace those hinges anyway... as a maintenance man I have to say my "Inspector" (me) is a real tough cookie [Laughing] -------- -Erik Grabowski Kolb Firestar N197BG CFI/CFII/LS-I Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78934#78934 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.