Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:00 AM - Re: engine replacement time (possums)
2. 07:56 AM - Re: engine replacement time (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
3. 08:24 AM - Any suggestion for a good cleaning of a 912ul? (John Bickham)
4. 08:28 AM - Re: engine replacement time (David Lehman)
5. 09:22 AM - Re: Carb heat (Thom Riddle)
6. 09:45 AM - Re: Overhaulin' (Thom Riddle)
7. 11:03 AM - Re: Overhaulin' (Herb Gayheart)
8. 11:22 AM - Re: engine replacement time (ElleryWeld@AOL.COM)
9. 12:56 PM - Re: Overhaulin' (John Hauck)
10. 01:52 PM - Kolb Trailer Update (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
11. 02:07 PM - Re: Overhaulin' (Jack B. Hart)
12. 03:38 PM - Re: Kolb Trailer Update (N27SB@AOL.COM)
13. 03:58 PM - Re: Kolb Trailer Update (Larry Bourne)
14. 05:02 PM - Ricks trailer/cowl update (Craig Nelson)
15. 05:41 PM - Re: Kolb Trailer Update (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
16. 05:58 PM - Re: Kolb Trailer Update (Dana Hague)
17. 08:23 PM - Re: Kolb Trailer Update (Larry Cottrell)
18. 08:41 PM - Re: Kolb Trailer Update (Richard Girard)
19. 08:47 PM - Re: Any suggestion for a good cleaning of a 912ul? (Richard Girard)
20. 08:51 PM - Re: Overhaulin' (Richard Pike)
21. 10:08 PM - Hirth and Rotax a comparison (Herb Gayheart)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:engine replacement time |
>What is the normal engine replacement that others are getting and on
>what engines?
>
>Ellery Original Firestar
>do not archive
>Since the time has been put on yours fast - (100 hrs per yr.), you
>have been able to go that long,
>but even engines that get time fast like that are likely to need
>at least some attention by 500.
>Tom Olenik
Olenik Aviation
I think the biggest thing that you can do is run your engine every
week - if you can. Even if it is only
for 15 minutes sitting on the ground - run it up some! I know, if you
fold your wings, you
can't, but the worst thing you could do is store it
without properly preparing it for storage. If it sits there for
months or even weeks
with the muffler unplugged and the air filter uncovered (they make covers) then
the crankshaft is going to get some corrosion/rust on the bearings. 50 hours
during the summer & 10 hours during the winter ain't going to do it.
Again, not to belabor the point - but I think 706 hrs without a
decarb, never had the
jugs off - I check the inside with a dental mirror and flashlight
thru the plug
holes - muffler and carbs off (no carbon to mention) Wallmart oil
"or whatever oil you're religion allows you to use".
Every 100 hours - check the compression (still 120 - just like it
came out of the box)
rings aren't stuck etc.
I'll probably get 800 hrs outa this thing, maybe 900? That's what
they're getting overseas.
I do change the plugs every 25 hrs - the expensive plugs - whatever
that's worth.
Maybe I just got a good engine, who knows? I've had others back in
the 90's that we
decarboned every 50 hours (447s), and all that did was f--k them up.
They never line back up
exactly like you took them apart, even with the right tools. The
pistons never seat
like they did before you "fixed" it. I've been breaking these things
since 1983.
BTW - I'm not an engine guy - I just barely understand how these things work,
but I figure I got about 38,000 miles on the one I got now ,,,not bad
for a 7 year old
$4,400 UL engine.
Around the world 1 1/2 times - right?? Most of my time is local,
around at 4,400 to
6,000 RPM. I do some trips now and again (Not like John H) , but I
like to fly slow and low.
These things are like motorcycles - with wings - not cars. I don't
want to climb Mt. Everest,
I don't want to drive from Georgia to California - been there done that.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4742969166825363751&hl=en
When It's Time To Decarbon??
http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part47.pdf
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:engine replacement time |
Thanks for the info mabe I should just re install my old engine and finish
wearing it out
Ellery
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Any suggestion for a good cleaning of a 912ul? |
Hello List,
Getting closer. Finally finished painting Tuesday.
Ready to put engine on airframe. Need to give it a good cleaning. Easy to do now
while on bench.
Appendix D
(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that
inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing,
and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
Any suggestions on what to use (or not to use)? Some of the aluminum is a little
weathered and has a slight white crust (alum corrosion).
--------
Thanks too much,
John Bickham
Mark III-C
"Using my Repairman Certificate"
St. Francisville, LA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81509#81509
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:engine replacement time |
Ellery...
Did you ever get your floats installed?... Like it's the right time of
year, not...
If you did, give us some pictures...
DVD
On 12/14/06, ElleryWeld@aol.com <ElleryWeld@aol.com> wrote:
>
> *Thanks for the info mabe I should just re install my old engine and
> finish wearing it out
>
> Ellery
> do not archive*
Message 5
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Richard,
That is a good treatment of the subject of carb icing and I'm glad you
posted it.
BUT, the folks who wrote that are temperature math challenged. In their
table of temperature changes they have made some serious errors in
converting temperature CHANGE from C to F.
Temperature CHANGE (is not the same as actual temperature)
Their Conversion Correct Conversion
20C 68F 36F
30C 86F 54F
83C 181F 149F
140C 284F 252C
Yes, on your dual scale thermometer, 20C = 68F, 30C=86F, 83C=181F, and
140C=284F but the formula for temperature CHANGE, not temperature scale
equivalents is a simple linear relationship. A change of 10 degrees C
is equal to a change of 18 degrees F.
To convert ACTUAL temps from C to F the formula is slightly more
complex.
degrees C x 1.8 + 32 = degrees F
examples
0C (water freezing) x 1.8 + 32 = 32 F (water freezing)
100C (water boiling) x 1.8 + 32 = 212 F (water boiling)
To convert temp CHANGE in C to temperature CHANGE in F, the formula is
change in C x 1.8 = change in F
example
temp change of -20C x 1.8 = -36F
I can't even remember how many times this simple error has occurred in
official documentation from otherwise technically savvy organizations,
but it is way too many and something a technical editor should easily
find and correct before publication.
Thom in Buffalo
Message 6
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.....Can someone explain to me why it is Rotax can't make 2-stroke
bearings
and/or crankshaft components that last longer than 300 hours
(notwithstanding those that go well over that time limit)? I
mean, is
it a matter of cost/materials, or is it a "no material known to
man
can withstand the stresses involved" kind of thing?.....
In addition to what John Hauck said, I would add the following. If my
memory serves me correctly, the forces acting on reciprocating machine
parts is proportional to the 4th power of the RPM. Jack Hart can
probably confirm or correct this number. In other words, if the RPM
goes up from 3000 to 6000 (doubling) then the reciprocating forces go
up by a factor of 16 (2 to the 4th power). So, if a 2 stroke engine
normally runs at 6,000 rpm vs a 912 running at 5,000 rpm, the 2-stroker
is running 20% faster in rpm which (if all other variables were held
constant) would equate to a bit over twice the forces (1.2 ^ 4 =
2.076). Any wonder why drag racing engines running at redline for a 1/4
mile need rebuilding so frequently?
When I was flying an early FIrestar with 377 I normally cruised at
around 5200 rpm. No signs of trouble at all with that engine at near
500 hours on it when I sold the airplane.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
Message 7
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The lower rpms of the Hirth engines might account for some of their
stated 1000 hour overhaul? Herb
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 12:44:08 -0500 Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
writes:
>
> .....Can someone explain to me why it is Rotax can't make 2-stroke
> bearings
> and/or crankshaft components that last longer than 300 hours
> (notwithstanding those that go well over that time limit)? I
>
> mean, is
> it a matter of cost/materials, or is it a "no material known
> to
> man
> can withstand the stresses involved" kind of thing?.....
>
> In addition to what John Hauck said, I would add the following. If
> my
> memory serves me correctly, the forces acting on reciprocating
> machine
> parts is proportional to the 4th power of the RPM. Jack Hart can
> probably confirm or correct this number. In other words, if the RPM
>
> goes up from 3000 to 6000 (doubling) then the reciprocating forces
> go
> up by a factor of 16 (2 to the 4th power). So, if a 2 stroke engine
>
> normally runs at 6,000 rpm vs a 912 running at 5,000 rpm, the
> 2-stroker
> is running 20% faster in rpm which (if all other variables were held
>
> constant) would equate to a bit over twice the forces (1.2 ^ 4 =
> 2.076). Any wonder why drag racing engines running at redline for a
> 1/4
> mile need rebuilding so frequently?
>
> When I was flying an early FIrestar with 377 I normally cruised at
> around 5200 rpm. No signs of trouble at all with that engine at near
>
> 500 hours on it when I sold the airplane.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:engine replacement time |
No I got busy working on everyone elses Planes and never got the time to
install my floats but if the weather gets bad this winter mabe I can find time
to
do it then I will post it when ever it happens
Ellery with 2 sets of floats that haven't seen water
do not archive
Message 9
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| stated 1000 hour overhaul? Herb
Herb:
Isn't operational rpm a design factor?
Running an engine too slow can be as harmful to it as over speeding.
john h
mkIII
Message 10
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| Subject: | Kolb Trailer Update |
I just did my first test fitting of my clam shell doors on my Kolb
trailer. The trailer weighs about 1000 Lbs. empty and will hopefully be
able to be pulled by my Toyota Sienna. The clam shell doors are made of
foam board then fiber glassed. The frame was a boat trailer that I added
a tube framework to and covered with pole barn steel. I wanted to have
it ready to pull it to Florida this year but it just isn't going to
happen.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
Message 11
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At 12:44 PM 12/14/06 -0500, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
>.....Can someone explain to me why it is Rotax can't make 2-stroke
>bearings
> and/or crankshaft components that last longer than 300 hours
> (notwithstanding those that go well over that time limit)? I
>mean, is
> it a matter of cost/materials, or is it a "no material known to
>man
> can withstand the stresses involved" kind of thing?.....
>
Kolbers,
It has to do with the fact that roller and ball bearings are used in a low
oil environment. Ball and roller bearings do not have a large surface area
supported by an oil cushion as do slipper bearings. The ball has almost
point contact and the roller line contact so that as the load comes on and
off of them they are stressed through the center of the ball and roller.
Actual surface deformation takes place as the load comes on and off the
bearing. If the loads are low enough so that the deformation does not go
beyond the elastic limit, the bearing should hold up forever. But due to
material and surface imperfections, a bit of the ball, roller or bearing
race surface spalls and leaves a little pit. Then over time additional
material will fail next to the original pit etc until the bearing fails.
Higher loads accelerate this process.
>From Timken:
* Doubling load reduces life to one tenth. Reducing load by one half
increases life by ten,
* Doubling speed reduces life by one half. Reducing speed by one half
doubles life.
Check out:
http://www.timken.com/products/bearings/fundamen/calculate.asp
The above assumes constant load at constant rpm. But for an internal
combustion engine, the dynamic bearing load varies with crank position and
rises dramatically as rpm increases in a crank, connecting rod and piston
system. This why the engine explodes if it is over rev'ed.
I assume what engine manufacturers gamble on is that the bearings will hold
up to the selected TBO. In most cases they do and will go much further
depending upon how the engine has been treated and if the engine initially
received a very good set of bearings. So they pick a TBO time that they
believe is attainable for a high percentage of their engines. If there are
no failures in the field they may raise the TBO. No one wants the
reputation for engines that self destruct. It is better to have a re
buildable carcass.
Once you purchase your engine, you can make the choice of how you are going
to run your engine. I am not saying to never run your engine up to the
operating limit. But I am saying yes run it up there for take off, but
bring it on back a bit for cruise. It will be much easier on the bearings,
and the chances of making to TBO are increased.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Trailer Update |
Rick, Looks good. It looks like yu took Homer's and my advice about using
simple curves extended off of the top and sides of your trailer. How much do
they weigh?
steve
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Trailer Update |
Perty slick, Rick. You put some serious thought and effort into that.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Santa Fe, NM
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard & Martha Neilsen
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Trailer Update
I just did my first test fitting of my clam shell doors on my Kolb
trailer. The trailer weighs about 1000 Lbs. empty and will hopefully be
able to be pulled by my Toyota Sienna. The clam shell doors are made of
foam board then fiber glassed. The frame was a boat trailer that I added
a tube framework to and covered with pole barn steel. I wanted to have
it ready to pull it to Florida this year but it just isn't going to
happen.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
Message 14
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| Subject: | Ricks trailer/cowl update |
Rick
I like the doors. It looks kike the trailer tapers to the front of the
trailer? Right?
I started the engine with the cowing on for the first time. The back of
the cowling shook quite violently. Removed the cowl and put a
reinforcement bulkhead in the back where the air exits made of dense
foam and carbon - A week later re installed it and it worked well. The
baffle I made to force the air through the radiator also worked. Just
sitting at idle on the ground I held some plastic streamers at the
opening of the cowling at the front and I was amazed at the amount of
air being pulled through the cowling. But had another set back. The
engine has just 8 hours on it most came B4 the hard landing over two
years ago. As we were running the engine and got it to operating temp
oil was leaking all over the place. We shut it down and started
inspecting. I assumed it was one of my oil lines, checked all of them
and decided it was one of the fittings not quite tight enough, spraying
oil everywhere. Even redid one line. Re started the engine and still oil
all over the place. On closer inspection the oil was coming from behind
the stator behind the black plastic cover in the front of the engine. I
removed the cowling, oil lines, and water lines and all the electrical,
then removed the engine and took it to the rotax dealer here in phoenix.
The front oil seal was bad. The engine is now ready to go I will get it
Monday as I am working in California all week. Hope to have the air
worthiness inspection early next year. The engine did not run for the
two years Every time I thought about it I would turn the engine over by
hand. In a previous post "not running the engine is the worst thing you
can do to it" I do believe to be true! glad it let go in the drive way
rather than over the Grand Canyon.
Uncle craig
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Trailer Update |
Steve
They weigh 10-15lbs each. The heaviest part is a 3/8" X 5" X 6' plywood
part that is glued and glassed to the foam where I attach the hinge. I
set one down while I was mounting to other and a 10MPH wind was blowing
it around. I only glassed the outside of each door. Each door is a bit
fragile when open but should be stronger when both are closed and
latched. I will also be adding more foam bracing on the inside. The
caned foam "tough stuff" makes a real good foam glue.
I was right on track to get the trailer ready for Florida but the
weather turned cold around here and the resin took for ever to cure.
Thanks for you help.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: N27SB@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Trailer Update
Rick, Looks good. It looks like yu took Homer's and my advice about
using simple curves extended off of the top and sides of your trailer.
How much do they weigh?
steve
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Trailer Update |
At 04:51 PM 12/14/2006, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
>I just did my first test fitting of my clam shell doors on my Kolb trailer...
That's pretty cool, Rick. Does the plane extend into the clamshell portion
or is it just empty space?
It would be interesting to compare gas mileage with and without the doors.
Hoping to pick up my Ultrastar this weekend (with a trailer that needs
work). Good to get trailer ideas...
-Dana
--
--
What has four legs and an arm? A happy pit bull.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Trailer Update |
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Trailer Update
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Trailer Update
That's pretty cool, Rick. Does the plane extend into the clamshell
portion or is it just empty space?
It would be interesting to compare gas mileage with and without the
doors.
Just wondering what would be the effect of slated pieces mounted just
at the end of the trailer that directed the wind back in towards the
center of the trailer? Would the force of the wind cause the turbulence
to move back far enough that it would not cause drag on the trailer? Or
perhaps a wing mounted on the top of the trailer?
Larry, Oregon
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Trailer Update |
Rick, if you decide to glass the inside of the doors, or do another large
part, try using electric blankets to help cure the epoxy.
Rick
On 12/14/06, Larry Cottrell < lcottrell@fmtcblue.com> wrote:
>
>
> That's pretty cool, Rick. Does the plane extend into the clamshell
> portion or is it just empty space?
>
> It would be interesting to compare gas mileage with and without the doors
.
>
>
> Just wondering what would be the effect of slated pieces mounted just at
> the end of the trailer that directed the wind back in towards the center
of
> the trailer? Would the force of the wind cause the turbulence to move bac
k
> far enough that it would not cause drag on the trailer? Or perhaps a wing
> mounted on the top of the trailer?
> Larry, Oregon
>
> do not archive
>
> *
>
===========
>
> www.aeroelectric.com
===========
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
>
> *
>
> ------_NextPart_000_00EE_01C71FC5.EC09EBC0X-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority:
> Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869This is a multi-part message
> in MIME alternative;
> boundary----_NextPart_000_00EE_01C71FC5.EC09EBC0X-Priority:
> 6.00.2900.2869X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869Thi
sis a multi-part message in MIME
> format.------_NextPart_000_00EE_01C71FC5.EC09EBC0Content-Type: text/plain
;
> charsetiso-8859-1Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's prett
y
> cool, Rick. Does the plane extend into the clamshell portion or is it jus
t
> empty space? It would be interesting to compare gas mileage with and with
out
> the doors. Just wondering what would be the effect of slated pieces mount
ed
> just at the end of the trailer that directed the wind back in towards the
> =CEnter of the trailer? Would the force of the wind cause the turbulence
to
> move back far enough that it would not cause drag on the trailer? Or perh
aps
> a wing mounted on the top of the trailer? Larry, Oregon do not
> archive------_NextPart_000_ ----_NextPart_000_00EE_01C71FC5.EC09EBC0--
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Any suggestion for a good cleaning of a 912ul? |
See if any of the industrial tool suppliers can get you a tube of
"Knorrostol". Works great on aluminum or steel.
Rick
On 12/14/06, John Bickham <gearbender@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hello List,
>
> Getting closer. Finally finished painting Tuesday.
>
> Ready to put engine on airframe. Need to give it a good cleaning. Easy to
> do now while on bench.
>
> Appendix D
> (a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before
> that
> inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors,
> fairing,
> and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
>
> Any suggestions on what to use (or not to use)? Some of the aluminum is a
> little weathered and has a slight white crust (alum corrosion).
>
> --------
> Thanks too much,
>
> John Bickham
> Mark III-C
> "Using my Repairman Certificate"
> St. Francisville, LA
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81509#81509
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 20
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If you are lugging the engine, yes. If the engine is not being lugged, no.
Jack Hart in his post on this subject gave an excellent analysis on the
situation, as the crank load goes up expotentially as the rpm's increase, &
the crank life is greatly extended by cruising at lower rpm's.
That is why I am still in pursuit of streamlining & cleaning up the MKIII so
that it becomes possible to attain acceptable cruise speeds at minimal 582
cruise rpm's. Right now I am able to cruise at 65-70 mph at around 5300
rpm's, and the bird is currently in the garage awaiting more streamlining so
that it will (hopefully) become even more efficient. Don't know if I will
accomplish anything or not, but the goal is to cruise at 65-70 at 5200 rpm
or less. Not to mention that at this rpm the fuel burn is just slightly
above 3 gph. And it is comparitively very quiet.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Overhaulin'
> Isn't operational rpm a design factor?
>
> Running an engine too slow can be as harmful to it as over speeding.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Hirth and Rotax a comparison |
John
I agree and would ask..are Rotax engines designed to run at 75% power
to achieve TBO? For instance, that would be abt 5100 RPMs for a DCDI
503. Abt 39 hp.. The roughly equivalent Hirth is the 3702 which develops
55 hp at 5500 rpms.. Its 75 % power is at 4100 rpms.. 41 hp.
Herb
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:55:53 -0600 "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
writes:
>
> | The lower rpms of the Hirth engines might account for some of
> their
>
> Herb:
>
> Isn't operational rpm a design factor?
>
> Running an engine too slow can be as harmful to it as over
> speeding.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
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